Political views and life experience

[Lucid]

What events in your life have shaped or contributed to your political views? Has anyone changed their views drastically because of an event or situation in your life?

[Ham]

Yup. Being a member of the debate societies has exposed me to the many, many different political views in great detail and in the end I realised that the systems isn't the limiting factor, but the people who run them; and actually, people in general. Our brains just aren't equipped to cope with the systems we've developed and that's where the problem lies.

[Mader]

I agree with Ham, the problem is always those messy humans.

I grew up with very strong beliefs of right and wrong.
I have not always followed those beliefs.
When I did follow those beliefs, things have not always turned out well.

But my feeling, at that point, is disappointment in others. Greed, jealousy, envy, lack of spine, or such. Even when I have been on the losing end of things, I am still much happier playing my my old-fashioned rules, and I feel sorry for those who give in, it seems to suck a their souls, they may benefit initially, but they seem either a bit sad or a bit empty.

[larkin]

I was an economics major in college. My university had a very right-leaning, Friedman-style economics department, which at the time I more or less agreed with. I am from the south, grew up in very conservative areas.

There was another student, a guy from Holland. He and I used to have economics debates. I would marshal all the evidence in favor of a U.S.-style system. Production rate. Unemployment rate. GDP. I remember one debate specifically, when I was in the middle of reciting those numbers, when he said: "in your country 12% of the people live below the poverty level. in Holland 2% of the people do. It's simply a matter of priorities; what do you want those numbers you're reciting to accomplish?"

I'm embarrassed to say it now, but honestly this had never occurred to me. I thought maximizing resources was the ultimate goal and nothing beyond that. To be fair to my economics professors, it's not their job to set priorities; that's the job of politicians. But it's surprising to me how many people think the market it is an end unto itself, as you can probably tell from my posts.

My job now makes me think about those priorities, and Erwin, daily.

[polaroid]

If I was male, white, and straight, I would probably be a lot more right-leaning than I am, based on my southern conservative upbringing. But being told so many times to "act like a lady" or "be pretty or you'll never find a good man" and such things eventually led me to start questioning all the bullshit.

[kavalan]

For me I was raised conservative but was told never to narrow my scope on life. So for most of my time in high school I was of conservative ideals and in debates took stances along those lines.

This changed during the final semester of my senior year in high school and the first semester in college. During this periods the religious platform I had pretty much fell out as I found out that our validictorion who had the world at her feet was not allowed to go to college on grounds of her religious belief. Another incident was another girl I know was a whore her first semester in college, dropped out, converted to the church of the latter day saints and than came to me preaching as if she was the beacon holiness.

This, coupled with the outrageous amounts of religious fanaticism as of the last couple years I've tuned out the whole organized religion concept

To sum it up still fiscally conservative and lean towards liberal side of social issues

[Ither]

My political attitude stemmed from, I think, two factors. 1) A very strong sense of the existence of an elsewhere, insofar as I was very much aware that other places than where I was existed. 2) The seemingly ubiquitous presence of the John Birch Society and religious fanaticism where I was.

[ElstonGunn]

When I was younger, I was somewhat to the right, and now I'm pretty far to the left, so I guess something must have changed. But I don't really know what it was, aside from a gradual process.

I think the social factors probably changed first, since it's a lot simpler to judge the level of harm in thing like gay marriage, or burning flags, or saying "happy holidays" than it is to decide whether you're in favor of lifting the tariff on imported Canadian soft lumber provided that lumber prices stay above a certain level. :p

[Paul Siraisi]

20 years of liberal upbringing was steadily beaten flat by 30 more years of facts.

Christian? Well yeah I guess so.
Fact: That means you believe a guy came back from the dead.

Pro-equality? You bet!
Fact: Nature.

Racist? Never!
Fact: Race.

Anti war? Sure.
Fact: 911.

Something like that.

Addendum: I see I neglected the economics side. I've always been a bit agnostic there, and under-educated about it in the first 20 years. But I like gardening, and find a fair analogy. A light hand where possible....

[Tristan]

Some of you guys are obviously really tight-lipped on this subject, an interesting tidbit in itself. I'll try to be honest and personal, though I can't guarantee you'll find the short tale interesting.

From college, a long way away, I watched my mom evolve from a conservative to a really deep-end environmentalist and feminist. The causes captured her emotions and fanned them, and she became overbearing and unapproachable. I realized that she took up all these dingbat causes because her last son (me) had finally flown out of the nest and she was left, for the first time in 35 years, with nothing to latch onto. Political views are nothing but glaze spread over the emotional masonry. My mom would call me and rail on me for not caring more and for supporting the Iraq war and such, but of course, the real message in her ranting was simply that I did not call her enough, and she was starved for emotional contact with her sons.

You could guess, now, that my views ossified into a referendum on hers. A resistance. My mom valued social issues highly and understood nothing of economics, so I made it my business to knock economics down cold and not give a damn about social issues. And that's how it stands today. I'm not proud of how my views came about, but I like them because they are soft science. Economics calls me to discipline myself and be ready to accept the validity of other principles and ideas. Which I do constantly, even if I'm abrasive about it.

What events in your life have shaped or contributed to your political views? Has anyone changed their views drastically because of an event or situation in your life? What about you?

[Blse]

Used to be conservative in high school (mainly b/c I thought capitalism was a perfectly self-regulating system and welfare an unjust form of subsidising idle behavior).

Then become very left when entering college with a mostly Neo-Marxist department (social science major with concentrations in poli sci and econ).

Then, as I learned became a more moderate Democrat - a modern liberal (i.e. seeing govt. intervention limited to address market failures and short-comings are requirements for liberty by starting to adhere to the idea of "positive freedom.")

Throughout my background was liberal (coastal Cali, big city, professional, you get the blue picture). So, mainly it was my studies. The biggest insight leading to my current view is that liberty depends on govt. action and taxation (since anarchy is a form of tyranny, like facist statism); that liberty is a state of balance to be reached through a complex system of checks and balances, tradeoffs, and compromises.

The most profound books I read were "The Cost of Rights: Why Liberty Depends on Taxes" (Sunstein & Cass, 1999), "Freedom Reclaimed" (John Schwartz, John Hopkins UP, 2005), and (the classic) "On Liberty" (John Stuart Mill), as well as (the highly technical) "Economics of the Welfare State" (Barr, OUP, 2004).

[Golradaer]

I had been quite pro-capitalist, laissez-faire, free-market, until I realized that people are not capable of making rational decisions that take into account their long-term welfare in all cases, and that people have limited access to the information necessary to make good decisions, either through their own failings or external factors. Now I would consider myself something of a moderate/conservative democrat as I am liberal on social issues, but believe that there needs to be a balance between government intervention and free-market forces.

[Lucid]

What about you?

In high school I was a very right leaning libertarian. I believed in social darwinism and that if people were poor it was because of choices that they made. At the time, my family was wealthy and I was well cared for. When I got out into the real world my family had lost most of our money and I was truly on my own. I learned that the system we have is largely set up to keep the poor as they are and to make upward economic movement extremely difficult. I also learned that if I live in a society in which the majority of the people are educated and can afford to put food on their tables etc. I benefit because they're less likely to rob me and more likely to become productive members of a productive society. Additionally, as someone else has mentioned, it became clear to me that humans are only partially rational and that we cannot be expected to make good decisions all the time, mostly because most of us do not have all the necessary information and understanding. Also because there's plenty of things in life that we just can't foresee. I also became more of a pragmatist and less concerned about how a political ideology should be, and more with how it would work in practice and the results of its implementation.

So yes, being poor as fuck (I lived on $400 a month for a long time) made me understand that social darwinism is a crock of shit most often clung to by the spoiled rich who don't know any better. At least, that's what I came out of that experience believing.

Additionally, I wasn't all that interested in politics until the last few years. I became interested when the previous administration started doing things like illegal wire tapping, no bid contracts, illegally invading other countries, etc. And even more so when I saw how their economic policy had contributed to the economy crashing.

[themuzicman]

I was a kid growing up during the Nixon/Carter years. I remember the suffering my family went through as a result of hippie liberal politics. I also remember the growth and prosperity of the Reagan years as my lower middle class family prospered, moved to a better house, and then a better house, and I was able to get a degree at a university with relatively little debt.

At that point, I was convinced that conservatives both understand the nature of human beings and understand the fundamentals of both foreign policy and economics.

Then, with the 1994 revolution, I saw that congress can, with the right leadership, balance the budget and not push more debt onto my kids and grandkids.

And I also saw the blue blood moderate idiots in my party destroy it under 8 years of Bush's idiocy.

So, yeah. I've seen the failures of big government and liberalism and socialism.

I also rejected libertarianism upon reading Atlas Shrugged and interacting with enough libertarians to realize that they had an imperfect view of humanity, as well.

[boldbidder]

I grew up upper-middle class, my mother was the bread winner, my dad was ex-military then became a teach and later a principal. Each of parents shared a wealth of life experiences with me that shaped my social and economic view points.

This will be long winded so be forewarned:

My Mom - My mother grew up in the delta of MS and was dirt poor; literally. She grew up in a shack with a dirt floor, her father left my mom and grandmother when was was a toddler. Her best Christmas ever was getting a red wagon (you know the kind with the black pull handle) and a bag of oranges. She went on to get her undergrad from Depaul and MBA from Northwestern University and was making a six figure income back in the early 80's. She was/is very much a capitalist and strongly believes that people make their own reality, as she pretty much optimizes. From her I learned the art of contingency planning and dogged determination for my goals, and the importance of being fiscally responsible.

My Dad - My dad is also from MS, he grew up in a farming family. He spent his days picking cotton in the MS sun, fun fun stuff. He went to Alcorn St. for undergrad, but then enlisted in the military after graduation (two of my uncles had been drafted). He then matriculated up to the Chicago area and became a teacher in the Chicago Public School System. We lived a very comfortable life out in the western suburbs and my father could have taught there, but he always taught in the roughest neighborhoods on the west side of Chicago because he felt that the kids there needed his help more than the well off kids in the burbs. He's retired now, but he still teaches about 20 hours per week in a GED program for adults. From my Dad I learned the importance of helping my fellow man. I once recall a debate we had as a family at dinner (we often had a political social debate of some kind) about welfare. My mother loathed the idea of welfare and thought it should be eradicated out right. My father made the case that something as simple as giving a homeless guy a few dollars was a form of welfare, to which my mom didn't object. The point being that if we have the ability to help others we should do so. So from Dad I learned that there are a lot of really wonderful people born into terrible situations, in which case it's not so much about personal responsiblity or making the right 'choices' as many of the kids my father taught (before having him as a teacher) thought their options were work and McDonald's post on Madison St. and sell crack.

So with all that how did I come out? I'm largely fiscally conservative although I think government should provide a variety of social programs for its citizens, specifically in regards to education. On social issues I'm an unabashed liberal, history repeatedly demonstrates that social conservatives ultimately wind up on the wrong side of the argument, ALL people deserve to have the same freedoms and liberties as the privileged class.

[Doppelbock]

Grew up smack-dab middle class, and my parents never discussed politics so I had no real influences in terms of "up-bringing". I have always been strongly libertarian as long as I can remember although I have always voted Republican up until the last election (by which time it has become too distasteful).

What I would like for others to understand about libertarianism is that (I think) it encompasses a much broader spectrum of opinions than does liberalism (in the modern American "Democrat" sense of liberalism/progressivism) and conservativism (in the modern American GOP sense of conservativism). Not all libertarians are gun-toting secessionists, or anarchists, or Randian objectivists.

[curiousgeorge01]

In high school I was a very right leaning libertarian. I believed in social darwinism and that if people were poor it was because of choices that they made. At the time, my family was wealthy and I was well cared for. When I got out into the real world my family had lost most of our money and I was truly on my own. I learned that the system we have is largely set up to keep the poor as they are and to make upward economic movement extremely difficult. I also learned that if I live in a society in which the majority of the people are educated and can afford to put food on their tables etc. I benefit because they're less likely to rob me and more likely to become productive members of a productive society. Additionally, as someone else has mentioned, it became clear to me that humans are only partially rational and that we cannot be expected to make good decisions all the time, mostly because most of us do not have all the necessary information and understanding. Also because there's plenty of things in life that we just can't foresee. I also became more of a pragmatist and less concerned about how a political ideology should be, and more with how it would work in practice and the results of its implementation.

So yes, being poor as fuck (I lived on $400 a month for a long time) made me understand that social darwinism is a crock of shit most often clung to by the spoiled rich who don't know any better. At least, that's what I came out of that experience believing.

Additionally, I wasn't all that interested in politics until the last few years. I became interested when the previous administration started doing things like illegal wire tapping, no bid contracts, illegally invading other countries, etc. And even more so when I saw how their economic policy had contributed to the economy crashing.

Well growing up, I sided more with the libertarian views. I grew up in a single parent family where my mother didn't know how to provide. I was taken in by other family members who stressed that I had to make my own way since she couldn't. I still have that belief now though it has gotten more pragmatic over the years.

I agree with your assessment 'that the system we have is largely set up to keep the poor as they are and to make upward economic movement extremely difficult.' I still hold on to the libertarian view even though I believe this to be true. However, I don't think the problem is Social Darwinism, I think it's the abuse of the idea. Most societies separate the haves and have nots through some method, it really depends to what degree. And you're right, rich kids who know nothing about suffering should not haughtily wave that point at other people.

I forgot to add that I went to a very liberal college. After that experience I actually became more conservative as I find liberals are always coming up with excuses on how to 'take' something from someone else through use of social programs. While I don't mind them to help someone get on their feet, their abuse of those programs rivals the abuse of rich people who claim Social Darwinism!

So in summary, I hate everyone equally. I guess that should be my tagline...Curious George, hates everyone equally.

[Cincinnatus]

What events in your life have shaped or contributed to your political views? Has anyone changed their views drastically because of an event or situation in your life?

I grew up in a straight ticket Republican household. By the time I was eighteen, I had a sheer distaste for partisan politics. I couldn't stand party shilling, and really can't to this day. What can I say? I heard too many talking points.

[kevintr]

I grew up in an upper middle class household with just me and my dad. I would say I had a pritty privilaged childhood.My dad liked socialism but understood the effectivness of capitalism.

I've always had a pritty socialist out look, people shoulden't be too materialistic, those who are better off should help the poor work there way into a better situation. I remember being very agry about the way things were in the United States when I was younger (late 80's). In my early thirtys I was pritty well off and I was happy with capitalism, but I did beleve one of the main functions of a busness was to provide good paying jobs to it's employees.

I moved to Canada five years ago and had a rough time, I had to work very hard just to make ends meet. I've realized that it is easy for people to hurt one another just persuing there own shelfish goals without really meaning any harm. My expectations from people are alot lower now, so I don't get too angry about peoples shelfishness but I think they should be better. I've gotten to beleving that the goverment should be more assertive about implementing socialism, but I have a healthy respect for the fact that while people may be fendamentaly good they are also shelfish.

[firebee]

I grew up in a straight ticket Republican household. By the time I was eighteen, I had a sheer distaste for partisan politics. I couldn't stand party shilling, and really can't to this day. What can I say? I heard too many talking points.

This.

Strangely enough, the message that I got from my raising was that political parties (also religions) were primarily a social affiliation -- you are an X because that is what people like you do. Hence, for quite some time I had something of a "pox on both your houses" attitude. What I'm finding now is that the Republicans are being somewhat more consistent than the Democrats at having positions and using tactics that I disagree with.

[Merle]

I can't remember ever not thinking in a "lefty" way...
But I grew up being ferried around the world by my father's job as an economist for DFID (the British government's Department for International Development) - we moved to Africa when I was 2 (Malawi), then Fiji and then back to Africa (Kenya). I was exposed to the extreme poverty in those countries from an early age and I'm pretty certain that helped form my political views fairly early on. At the same time - my experiences in those countries have made me into a lefty that has a lot of arguments with the traditional Left... for example: I'm hugely pro-globalisation and international trade which didn't go down too well at the few Socialist party meetings I attended at university. I feel like I'm in a political limbo to a certain extent, as the parties with whom I agree on issues such as welfare etc are generally anti-globalisation and fairly protectionist. I'm unwilling to compromise on welfare/healthcare etc etc and so I find myself with no-one to vote for.... I think I need to move to Sweden.

[kevintr]

. I feel like I'm in a political limbo to a certain extent, as the parties with whom I agree on issues such as welfare etc are generally anti-globalisation and fairly protectionist.

I agree to a large extent, globilization does make me feel uneasy but it does seem to have been effective in reducing poverty in some parts of the world. I beleve that the unequal ditribution of resources on an international scale is a problem that should be addressed and that socialists that ignore this issue are selling out on the ideal of the equality of all people.

[Warrior]

I grew up lower middle class (lived on a farm). We had the necessities, but not a lot more. The entire 18 years I lived with my parents, I think we went on two vacations. No big parties, not really a lot of time to spend with friends after all the work was done, never wore anything that was considered in style, you get the idea . . . . I really hated it at the time (but have to come to understand how beneficial it really was) and tended to be more left leaning politically. I think this was because I thought all the social programs, were a way out of that life.

As I moved into college, I started to think a little more and realized what a crock that thinking was. I realized that all the liberal things I thought might help really wouldn't help me, it was just about pulling someone else down. It became pretty clear that if I wanted to improve my situation, it was up to me - not anyone else. I began to understand all the lessons my parents had been trying to teach me, like personal responsibility and a sense of right and wrong (the older I got, the smarter they seemed to become). I steadily progressed to the right all through college and am now way more conservative than anyone I can think of.

[Krazy P]

Born into a big Catholic family.

I was a democratic precinct committee-man at the age of 18 in Seattle WA working for the McGovern campaign. Divorced parents. I saw the discrimination my mother faced getting credit after the divorce. Stupid.

A friend urged me to apply to a fancy private school in Seattle and I got in and got a scholarship.

Rubbed elbows with the rich - our cheer at sporting events was:

"That's alright, that's OK, you'll all work for us someday!" (it was so true) Gates and Allen attended my school along with a few other future billionaires - you should see our high school re-unions.

Went to Reed College whose motto is "Atheism, Communism, Free Love".

Worked my way through college (33 hours a week as a hospital janitor).

Worked in the finance business, as a repo man among other things. Made CEO at 27.

Now? I would say I am a Krauthammer conservative. Difficult to pin down. Sexism is a stupid waste of resources. And the U.S. is the most progressive country in that regard - don't get me started on that.

Gay marriage? I can make a great argument in favor - based on conservative principles.

Obama? - a joke. Embarrassing, actually. The last self-indulgence of the baby-boomer generation.

Like taking an assistant branch manager at Bank of America and making that person the CEO. Couldn't lead a bunch of Boy Scouts over Forrester Pass in the High Sierra if he had a horse pack train to carry all the equipment.

[LaoTzu]

Yup. Being a member of the debate societies has exposed me to the many, many different political views in great detail and in the end I realised that the systems isn't the limiting factor, but the people who run them; and actually, people in general. Our brains just aren't equipped to cope with the systems we've developed and that's where the problem lies.

I totally agree... I think it's why INTJ/p's should rule the universe... We see systems on a more global level... all those sensor feelers see is right before their eyes.



My views changed beginning in Grade 2, when I found myself at odds with the system. Seriously. I had issues with my teacher, and she began to see me as a 'problem'. (Even though I was far and away brighter than most in my class). I rebelled against the system, and the system tried to kick me into place.... I won.




Over the course of time, using my proverbial stick to poke at the system; I figured out that those in power are just human beings like me, and have no innate worth that should make me kowtow to their whims of right and wrong actions and thoughts.


Politically, this has made me more Liberal (obviously), as conservatism trends towards authoritative systems with dominant leadership, and people who tend to appreciate tradition over generalized theories applied to individual circumstance.

I see people as all heading down the same paths, but crossing those points at differing times in their lives. People react positively or negatively to each other based on their own experiences and impressions of their time on those same paths, or the fear of having to walk those tracks in their own future.

[Beulah]

Dealing with lying cheating politicians on a regular basis has changed me by giving me an inordinately high regard for the genius of Guy Fawkes. I often think about his pragmatism - it gives me comfort and hope - as I sit in select committee hearings and hear the clueless MPs in love with their own voices.