Has PETA gone too far?

[Cocoa]

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PETA's new billboard campaign in Florida is raising eyebrows and ire among women and health groups. A drawing on billboards in Jacksonville depicts an obese woman with the phrase, "Save The Whales, Lose The Blubber: Go Vegetarian."

In a press release, PETA stated:

A new PETA billboard campaign that was just launched in Jacksonville reminds people who are struggling to lose weight -- and who want to have enough energy to chase a beach ball -- that going vegetarian can be an effective way to shed those extra pounds that keep them from looking good in a bikini. [....]


Anyone wishing to achieve a hot "beach bod" is reminded that studies show that vegetarians are, on average, about 10 to 20 pounds lighter than meat-eaters. [...]

"Trying to hide your thunder thighs and balloon belly is no day at the beach," says PETA Executive Vice President Tracy Reiman. "PETA has a free 'Vegetarian Starter Kit' for people who want to lose pounds while eating as much as they like.

Jessica at Feministing blasts the billboard as "fat-shaming" and that "PETA owes the residents of Jacksonville a serious apology."

Holly at Deceiver states, "This is exactly what you would expect [from PETA] -- no empathy for humans whatsoever, just a lot of B.S. about how vegetarianism will make fat people just a little bit less of a blight on humanity."

PETA is known for its attention-grabbing tactics involving scantily clad-women, like this veggie dog eat-in on Capitol Hill that involved playboy playmates wearing only lettuce bikinis.

When asked to comment on the charges that the ad is sexist and mocking of overweight people, Ashley Byrne, a senior campaigner for PETA stated, "Our goal is help overweight Jacksonville residents - the best way to do that is to go vegetarian. We're not trying to insult anyone. [....] Vegetarians look and feel better than meat eaters. This is a life-saving message."

When asked specifically if the billboard shames overweight people, Byrne stated, "If the billboard is shocking, hopefully it will gets people's attention, and help them improve quality of life for themselves and their families.... it's designed to help people."

How do you feel about this? Please state your reasoning below .

[dandylion]

I wonder if there are any "fat" PETA supporters, and if they are now ex-supporters after seeing that billboard.

[Cocoa]

I wonder if there are any "fat" PETA supporters, and if they are now ex-supporters after seeing that billboard.

Yeah, I wonder that too... I also wonder what would PETA have to say about them? oh no! Overweight vegetarians! :shocked:

[Lonpone]

Just another piece of propaganda. I think it's witty and makes a fine point if the viewpoint PETA is trying to get across is considered. The only thing even remotely bad about it is that yes, it can be rude, but then again, it's hard not to insult somebody someway.

[ToC]

there isn't a poll option for "hilarious and acceptably offensive"

[Cincinnatus]

I feel the same way about this billboard as I do with the Christian, the Anti-Abortion, and the Atheist billboards. They paid for the space and said their piece. Move along.

To be fair, none of my vegetarian friends are obese. A few more tomatoes in the mix couldn't hurt. Unless, of course, they're killer tomatoes.

[dandylion]

Yeah, I wonder that too... I also wonder what would PETA have to say about them? oh no! Overweight vegetarians! :shocked:

I don't find the billboard itself that offensive (it's witty and they were successful in making in controversial which is what I'm sure they want), but I don't like how they're feeding into the whole superficial image thing at a different angle. Goodness knows we have enough of that everywhere else in the media.

[Jinxu]

No, Peta has every right to show that billboard. Peta is one of the most altruistic organization we have. Whatever it does, it's to make the world better.

[Vagrant]

No, Peta has every right to show that billboard. Peta is one of the most altruistic organization we have. Whatever it does, it's to make the world better.

Sarcasm, I hope.

Promoting vegetarianism on the premise of lowered weight is a flawed premise -- most people who I know are vegetarian make much much more conscious choices about the food they eat. That's the reason they're loosing weight, not specifically because they are vegetarian.

Oh, and PETA has been well beyond the line for some time now. Case in point:

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This was a genuine pamphlet handed out by PETA members to school kids.

[Shifter]

My biggest problem with this billboard is that it doesn't really make sense.

Going vegetarian can help you lose weight -> fat is sometimes called blubber -> whales have blubber -> ????? -> save the whales.

Isn't the idea to get rid of the metaphorical whales, not save them?


This is probably one of the less nutty things PETA has done, sea kittens anyone?

[Luckeydavid]

My biggest problem with this billboard is that it doesn't really make sense.

Going vegetarian can help you lose weight -> fat is sometimes called blubber -> whales have blubber -> ????? -> save the whales.

Isn't the idea to get rid of the metaphorical whales, not save them?


This is probably one of the less nutty things PETA has done, sea kittens anyone?

It's just an attempt to be witty. They basically state that whales and blubber are coinciding concepts, and you should keep the whale but lose the blubber. They just use blubber alternatively for human fat. The misappropriated context is what makes it "amusing".


I give it a 4/10 on the witty scale--I've seen worse.


Now as for that ad campaign, that I give a 10/10 on the hilarity spectrum. Every time I look at it, I laugh.

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[Wintersun]

"Trying to hide your thunder thighs and balloon belly is no day at the beach," says PETA Executive Vice President Tracy Reiman. "PETA has a free 'Vegetarian Starter Kit' for people who want to lose pounds while eating as much as they like.

I take great offense at this statement. It's an outright misconception.

Excess energy can be stored as fat, among other things. Fat can be metabolised for energy.

The way to lose fat is to simply use more energy than you take in. That depletes the energy store of fats. As you lose more weight, though, your energy expenditure will start to drop, until your rate of energy loss = rate of energy gain, at which point weight loss stops.

To lose weight (without surgery), one needs to either eat less, exercise more, or both. Claiming that you can eat as much as you like and still lose weight will cause the stupid to binge on vegetables, acquiring more energy than they lose - and become even fatter.

While animal products tend to contain higher energy per unit mass than plant products, saying that "therefore, you can eat as much plant products as you want" is seriously dangerous nonsense.

To me, this is the way in which they have gone too far. They claim to be against fats, and thereafter make proposals that can result in weight gain. Hypocrisy is going too far.

[Night Runner]

I wonder if there are any "fat" PETA supporters, and if they are now ex-supporters after seeing that billboard.

Is there a reason for the quotation marks around the word "fat"? :suspicious: When I was growing up, people were fat, skinny or average...

I don't have a strong opinion about this ad one way or another. PETA's campaigns are losing their shock value (sea kittens...) but it's amusing to observe other people's reactions. Kind of like a real-life South Park episode. :)

Come to think of it, though, my fattest friend is a vegetarian...

[Vagrant]

I take great offense at this statement. It's an outright misconception.

Excess energy can be stored as fat, among other things. Fat can be metabolised for energy.

The way to lose fat is to simply use more energy than you take in. That depletes the energy store of fats. As you lose more weight, though, your energy expenditure will start to drop, until your rate of energy loss = rate of energy gain, at which point weight loss stops.

To lose weight (without surgery), one needs to either eat less, exercise more, or both. Claiming that you can eat as much as you like and still lose weight will cause the stupid to binge on vegetables, acquiring more energy than they lose - and become even fatter.

While animal products tend to contain higher energy per unit mass than plant products, saying that "therefore, you can eat as much plant products as you want" is seriously dangerous nonsense.

To me, this is the way in which they have gone too far. They claim to be against fats, and thereafter make proposals that can result in weight gain. Hypocrisy is going too far.

As I said:

"Promoting vegetarianism on the premise of lowered weight is a flawed premise -- most people who I know are vegetarian make much much more conscious choices about the food they eat. That's the reason they're loosing weight, not specifically because they are vegetarian."

[rickster]

As I said:

"Promoting vegetarianism on the premise of lowered weight is a flawed premise -- most people who I know are vegetarian make much much more conscious choices about the food they eat. That's the reason they're loosing weight, not specifically because they are vegetarian."

I just walked by my local fruit stand and yeah Danny's still fat and he was serving a fat customer.

But I know what PETA's really up to. They're worried this recession's gonna get worse and folks may not have food money: next hunting season those shotguns may be aimed at fatsos, with a view to getting those lard asses on campfires and barbecues nationwide.

It's for their own good: trim down, or die.

[deinotes]

Seems the PETA add did the trick since we even here are talking about it.
It's a intelligent marketing move to tie obese poeple to vegan and even include a slogan that tie to the emotions of whales getting killed . ;)

[tp6626]

This seems ridiculous to me. It seems like the emotional, ill-advised, scatter-gun rant of someone who can't really define what it is they are aiming for.

Firstly, meat-eater does not imply 'obese', just as vegetarian does not imply 'healthy'.

Secondly, obese does not imply the unethical treatment of animals.

Sure, it might be beneficial to reduce obesity in the population, but that is a different aim to those of PETA's. Someone elses' cause.

It really winds me up when people try to take the moral high-ground like this. The sad thing is, though, that this kind of propaganda probably works on the irrational masses. :(

[ToC]

I just walked by my local fruit stand and yeah Danny's still fat and he was serving a fat customer.

But I know what PETA's really up to. They're worried this recession's gonna get worse and folks may not have food money: next hunting season those shotguns may be aimed at fatsos, with a view to getting those lard asses on campfires and barbecues nationwide.

It's for their own good: trim down, or die.

Wasabi sales will rise dramatically. Perhaps we should invest...





ToC added to this post, 2 minutes and 44 seconds later...

As a side note: Eating meat doesn't really make you fat... even "fat" in meat doesn't make you fat. It might play hell on your cholesterol, but it's the donuts, french fries, and riceroni that are making people fat.

Doesn't make me like the billboard any less.

[deinotes]

This seems ridiculous to me. It seems like the emotional, ill-advised, scatter-gun rant of someone who can't really define what it is they are aiming for.

Firstly, meat-eater does not imply 'obese', just as vegetarian does not imply 'healthy'.

Secondly, obese does not imply the unethical treatment of animals.

Sure, it might be beneficial to reduce obesity in the population, but that is a different aim to those of PETA's. Someone elses' cause.

It really winds me up when people try to take the moral high-ground like this. The sad thing is, though, that this kind of propaganda probably works on the irrational masses. :(
Yeah i agree logical it doesn't make sense but to me it seems a nlp technique.
Where every time you see a fat person the add viewer is reminded to go vegan or buy veggies instead of steak.
Or maybe i am just seeing to much and it's really a bad add campaign ;).

[Wintersun]

Wasabi sales will rise dramatically. Perhaps we should invest...





ToC added to this post, 2 minutes and 44 seconds later...

As a side note: Eating meat doesn't really make you fat... even "fat" in meat doesn't make you fat. It might play hell on your cholesterol, but it's the donuts, french fries, and riceroni that are making people fat.

Doesn't make me like the billboard any less.

If you eat nothing but lettuce, but eat a lot of it, it'll still make you fat though. Energy per unit mass is an inferior metric to total energy consumption.

[thod]

They are not correct in saying that pure vegetarianism is optimal. We eat way too much meat, but that does not mean that we should eat no meat. An ideal diet would restrict you to eating meat only at weekends. This would allow you to avoid the deficiencies that arise with pure vegetarian diet whilst avoiding the excessive animal fat and protein intake.

[themuzicman]

The hilarious part is that PETA is trying to get people to follow part of their agenda for the wrong reasons. It's not that I stop eating animals because it's inhumane, but I stopped eating animals because eating them made me fat!

LOL.

[zibber]

(.. how fitting is it that I paused Star Trek IV to check the web? (It's about whales.))


Promoting vegetarianism on the premise of lowered weight is a flawed premise -- most people who I know are vegetarian make much much more conscious choices about the food they eat. That's the reason they're loosing weight, not specifically because they are vegetarian.


Well what are they gonna do, appeal to people's ethical consciousness?

Yeah, right.

We're talking about humans here. Humans conditioned by decades upon decades of commercialism and consumerism into mindless drones whose hilariously short attention span may only be grabbed by flashing colors and exaggerated claims, preferably in the form of short headlines or sound bytes.

I do not like Peta's use of half naked "beauty" models. I do not like it at all. However, the volume and circulation of Peta's ads are almost wholly insignificant compared to any single producer of "cosmetics", let alone the beauty norm's complete pervasion of major broadcasting networks and most of popular culture in general. (You don't even need billboards anymore; you can just walk around town and see mostly people struggling to cloak their perceived physical flaws and perpetuate the encultured superficiality of today's society. Individual people, doing this of their "own" accord.)

One five minute drive through any city and you will encounter a constant flurry of disgusting marketing propaganda, a great deal of which is directed at women. This is all allowed to continue nigh unfettered. A vegetarian organization puts up one pro-whale billboard that is half as offensive as any single example of said propaganda, and the world is in outrage.

HELLO!

They are not correct in saying that pure vegetarianism is optimal. We eat way too much meat, but that does not mean that we should eat no meat. An ideal diet would restrict you to eating meat only at weekends. This would allow you to avoid the deficiencies that arise with pure vegetarian diet whilst avoiding the excessive animal fat and protein intake.

When did you write this, 1970? There are many supplements available today.

[paleoeco]

c'mon people...it's PETA.

They have to make something offensive/extreme/whatever. PETA doesn't have the marketing buy to place billboards everywhere. Their solution: create something that puts them into the spotlight in the media, and get the ad/billboard plastered all over the country for FREE when the media talks about how offensive the ad is. Their creative team has to first come up with a message, and then come up with something that will stir up controversy.

As with many of their ads, they've succeeded with the controversy. The other part is, is it a successful message for what they want to communicate. In this case, I would say it's not their best.

Personally, I still like Jamie Bamber's ad:
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[clayjr]

peta has a warped way of assuming the moral high ground. I bet people will be eating meat long after peta has shrivelled and gone away

[invicta]

Are they wanting to insult their potential converts? It makes their organization seem petty and hateful.

It's good, though, that they are so open about their ethics.

[Freedom Geek]

PeTA went over the line a long time ago but I don't find this particularly bad.

[PHS Philip]

PETA have done much more horrible things (like using people's deaths to their own advantage). As far as I'm concerned, the organization's leadership are scum and have been for a long time. This one actually isn't all that awful, really.

[Mozzes]

If you eat nothing but lettuce, but eat a lot of it, it'll still make you fat though. Energy per unit mass is an inferior metric to total energy consumption.

I disagree and your example of lettuce is so pathological as to not even be applicable in reality as it would take about 36 pounds of raw lettuce to receive even 2000 calories.

[invicta]

I disagree and your example of lettuce is so pathological as to not even be applicable in reality as it would take about 36 pounds of raw lettuce to receive even 2000 calories.

Yes.

The word "vegetarian" is a beat misleading, as most vegetarian diets are not built around vegetables alone. They eat fats and carbs too, and the bulk of calories comes from these macronutrients.

To relate this to the ad:

Naturally slim people probably do better on high carb/low protein diets than naturally large people do.

[eri]

I thought PETA was over the line by definition.
I've never been able to take them seriously.
Also, although, as has been mentioned, they tend to assume the moral high ground, I've always thought that the moral high ground required a measure of sensitivity to others.
I may take their logic seriously when they begin advocating for ethical treatment of cockroaches and other household vermin, as well as the cute and cuddly things (not that I'll pay attention, mind you).

[Vagrant]

PETA have done much more horrible things (like using people's deaths to their own advantage). As far as I'm concerned, the organization's leadership are scum and have been for a long time. This one actually isn't all that awful, really.

Indeed.

This is tame by their normal standards.

PETA as an organization actually erodes the respectability of genuine animal protection services and animal rights groups I've seen, because of their stunts. While they certainly garner attention, it doesn't help the groups that are actually out there working their ass off to protect animals. I once listened to an irate woman who worked protecting livestock from cruelty call PETA insane fanatics.

Well what are they gonna do, appeal to people's ethical consciousness?

Yeah, right.

We're talking about humans here. Humans conditioned by decades upon decades of commercialism and consumerism into mindless drones whose hilariously short attention span may only be grabbed by flashing colors and exaggerated claims, preferably in the form of short headlines or sound bytes.

I do not like Peta's use of half naked "beauty" models. I do not like it at all. However, the volume and circulation of Peta's ads are almost wholly insignificant compared to any single producer of "cosmetics", let alone the beauty norm's complete pervasion of major broadcasting networks and most of popular culture in general. (You don't even need billboards anymore; you can just walk around town and see mostly people struggling to cloak their perceived physical flaws and perpetuate the encultured superficiality of today's society. Individual people, doing this of their "own" accord.)

One five minute drive through any city and you will encounter a constant flurry of disgusting marketing propaganda, a great deal of which is directed at women. This is all allowed to continue nigh unfettered. A vegetarian organization puts up one pro-whale billboard that is half as offensive as any single example of said propaganda, and the world is in outrage.

HELLO!

Well, I certainly agree with all of what you said.

The problem is, this is PETA. They're not actually interested in helping people, only their own agenda. Instead of trying to protect animals through ethical reasons, they're trying to protect animals by making meat eaters seem fat?

Just a bad idea all-around.

[BlizzarD]

have you knonw that vegetarians gets wheight? gladiators were fat people yet they were vegetarians or atleast ate less meat its proven by scientists.., with fat shell on there body, they could feel less pain when stabbed, and that sheel stopped much bleding. vegetarians gain weight becous of carbohydrates in thier food..(read it somewhere i dont know how to prove it, but it was scientific magazine).
kill me or not, but i think these days food are bad for your health and it makes you fat becous of all the chemical shit they are putting in the food, to make it taste goo, smell good etc.. look at the fast food, can you compare it with your own made food at home?
even products such as vegetables, meat, fruits. they all are modyfied and that feels alot...
world is getting to trash further and further away...

[phej]

For everybody's entertainment...

Penn and Teller on PETA.

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[Kenne936]

It's a bit over the line but it's also hilarious. I think people are way too concerned with being PC nowadays and it's annoying. it's no insult to call fat people fat.

By the way I HATE PETA they're a bunch of aloof hippie do-gooder's

[Cocoa]

My biggest problem with this billboard is that it doesn't really make sense.

Going vegetarian can help you lose weight -> fat is sometimes called blubber -> whales have blubber -> ????? -> save the whales.

Isn't the idea to get rid of the metaphorical whales, not save them?


This is probably one of the less nutty things PETA has done, sea kittens anyone?

I think a lot goes into how one interprets this billboard. While I see how you are interpreting it, I see it differently. I see it as PETA calling fat people Whales. Notice the imagery on the billboard... Now what do whales do when they beach themselves?
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Exactly. And PETA depicts a fat person on a beach....

Therefore I am of the opinion that implying that fat people are like beaching whales is highly offensive.

[rara avis]

Meh.

Fat people are sometimes derogatorily called whale, blubber, etc. It's a classically rude or hurtful thing to say. I wouldn't say it. Someone's weight isn't my business, anyway, what do I care?

I think when they say Save the Whales in this context, they are just using a trademark phrase to be cute, to draw two concepts together a little incongruously. "If you are fat, people think of you- and you likely think of yourself, deep down- as a whale. Save yourself by adopting a vegetarian diet."

But I don't care about PETA's billboard. Good on them, they certainly seem to be getting more than their money's worth out of a single ad. If you have a problem with this kind of advertising, I suppose your best recourse is to ignore it.

If you think they're rude and stupid, go ahead and think so. If you think there's a grain of truth in what they say, go ahead and consider it.

Who cares. There are bigger fish to fry.

[TheLastMohican]

Oh, and PETA has been well beyond the line for some time now. Case in point:

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This was a genuine pamphlet handed out by PETA members to school kids.

I prefer this one:

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[BostonIan]

By the way I HATE PETA they're a bunch of aloof hippie do-gooder's

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Aside from whatever my favorite website's theory was (click pic), simple math:
A = DHA reduces violence (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.), B = veggism reduces DHA (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.).

If A is true and B is true, then...

[tp6626]

I prefer this one:

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Jesus, is that an actual peta ad, or a a parody of a peta ad? I genuinely can't tell.

[realJim]

For everybody's entertainment...

Penn and Teller on PETA.

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LOL! what a GREAT video!

I think the billboard crosses the line. It's rude and inaccurate.

[TheLastMohican]

Jesus, is that an actual peta ad, or a a parody of a peta ad? I genuinely can't tell.
It's real. People complained when PETA members started handing out the ads to kids whose mothers were seen to wear fur. (They got to them as they came out of school buildings, if I remember correctly.)

[Jgib5328]

Vegetarians do tend to be skinnier than herbivores. I really don't see any problem with this, they aren't targeting a specific person, they are merely offering a suggestion to a group of people, "hey if you stop eating meat, it may help you lose weight", which is true. How is this much different from Dr. Atkins telling us to cut down on the carbs? Beyond all of this, we have freedom of speech and can say what we want, even if it's hurtful. Also, this is much better than when PETA threw blood on people's fur coats.

[Blowfish989]

I was going to say, surely I can't be the only fan of Penn & Teller's BS on here!! I honestly don't think most celebrities who have supported PETA can possibly know what they are really about (though I do like that picture of Jamie Bamber!!).

I love animals. Animal suffering makes me sick. But PETA makes me sick too, and so does that billboard.

[Vagrant]

Jesus, is that an actual peta ad, or a a parody of a peta ad? I genuinely can't tell.


It's an actual pamphlet PETA handed out to school children. Both TLM's and my images are scans of those pamphlets.

Sea kittens my ass.

Vegetarians do tend to be skinnier than herbivores. I really don't see any problem with this, they aren't targeting a specific person, they are merely offering a suggestion to a group of people, "hey if you stop eating meat, it may help you lose weight", which is true. How is this much different from Dr. Atkins telling us to cut down on the carbs? Beyond all of this, we have freedom of speech and can say what we want, even if it's hurtful. Also, this is much better than when PETA threw blood on people's fur coats.I'm pretty sure they're still doing that stuff.

The message they're sending with this billboard is a good one, I'm not complaining. But the underlying goal behind the billboard? Seems more sinister to me.

[dontlookback]

PETA disgusts me I think everything they do is over the line and offensive to some people,even if it isn't to me. That organization gives a horrible name to vegetarians & vegans that are actually sane. Ie;Me. (Well,I'm more sane than they are anyway :thinking: :laugh:)

In regard to the billboard : Obviously it makes a point,but if their goal is to make more people vegetarians/vegans,insulting them along the way is not the way to do it. :thumbsdown:

[ToC]

PETA disgusts me I think everything they do is over the line and offensive to some people,even if it isn't to me. That organization gives a horrible name to vegetarians & vegans that are actually sane. Ie;Me. (Well,I'm more sane than they are anyway :thinking: :laugh:)

In regard to the billboard : Obviously it makes a point,but if their goal is to make more people vegetarians/vegans,insulting them along the way is not the way to do it. :thumbsdown:

I'd be an asshole if I didn't eat meat.

[Blowfish989]

I also must point out that it is a logical fallacy to suggest that because vegetarians weigh, on average, 10-20 pounds less than omnivores, you are likely to lose 10-20 pounds if you adopt a vegetarian diet. That doesn't hold water.

[JonD]

Yeah, blowfish, it's that whole "correlation does not imply causation" thing.

And back to the OP, yes PETA has gone too far. Not just because of this article, either. I listen to a news talk station at work, and PETA felt compelled to make a statement regarding the fly that Obama killed during an interview. (There are some viral videos out there; it shouldn't be hard to find if you're curious.) The PETA spokesman used soft wording, but basically said that killing flies is immoral. What a crock.

[Ava]

Coming from PETA, it doesn't surprise me, but it does further reinforce the impression I have that they don't actually do anything worthwhile as an organization and instead spend all their time and money merely trying to draw attention to themselves... usually by offending or harassing people. The billboard's a good example of that: the message it presents doesn't really make any sense - people who are overweight because of poor diet habits aren't going to suddenly start eating only healthy foods in appropriate amounts just because they've eliminated meat - and it's far more likely to offend fat people than convert them. There's no point to it, other than making people pay attention to them, and that alone isn't going to help any animals.

[rickster]

Indeed.

This is tame by their normal standards.

PETA as an organization actually erodes the respectability of genuine animal protection services and animal rights groups I've seen, because of their stunts. While they certainly garner attention, it doesn't help the groups that are actually out there working their ass off to protect animals. I once listened to an irate woman who worked protecting livestock from cruelty call PETA insane fanatics.

That's just completely wrong in its misinformed ignorance - on your part, and those "saints" who believe they alone are the real deal when it comes to animal protection.

A basic understanding of political science recognizes the absolute importance of "insane fanatics" to lead the charge in any and all movements. Those who wish to advance their actual cause actually sabotage the cause by distancing themselves from the frontline activists: if they weren't so self-serving they'd be instead forging strong political alliances (with activists) around their common rallying point/s.



The PETA spokesman used soft wording, but basically said that killing flies is immoral. What a crock.

Not necessarily.

There is a direct correlation between cruelty towards animals, and cruelty and violence towards other people. That was one of the founding beliefs of the RSPCA in the 19th Century, but became dumbed-down during the 20th Century. The syndrome now being revisited by psychologists, sociologists and law enforcement.

Whatever we think of the highly effective tactics of PETA (and Mme. Bardot in Europe), they're actually to be applauded for reminding society that the ethics of killing are an issue for mankind in the end. We give our kids pets in order that they learn care and compassion for lives that are hierarchically less able to survive.

Of course this current campaign is about much-needed ongoing visibility for the organization - as was the fly-swatting "outrage" - but let's not forget their mix of controversy and entertainment is probably the only way to keep the issue of ethics as related to animal cruelty on the table in a culture which basically doesn't give a shit about anything but the superficial and obvious. :)

[PLC]

I'm a vegetarian. I don't like peta much, actually I don't really like any of those "animal rights" organization as I usually don't agree with the methods they use to promote ethical treatment. That being said, I find that add pretty funny.

Some facts I want to get straight:

Yeah, being a vegetarian will make you lose weight if you eat right. I was in awesome shape when I started the whole vegetarian thing a year ago and I lost 10 pounds the first month, without even trying and I already had a great diet prior to that. The vegan food usually has a lot less calories/sugars/salt/saturated fat so for achieving the same "filling state" you eat much less stuff that gets converted to fat in the end.

And for those who stated that it's ok to eat meat even if a little, I've stumbled on studies (cited in local newspaper, no vegan propaganda) that says all red meat is bad. It was kind of pointing to all meat are bad but a little white meat doesn't seem to hurt.

Some stated that you get deficiencies with a vegetarian diet. I've been doing it for a year and I've never felt so good, I've never had that much energy before. I don't have any of those supposed deficiencies and I don't take supplements. It's all about eating right. Meat is pretty much just proteins and iron which is a waste of food intake in my opinion. Fruits and vegetables usually have a lot more minerals and vitamins so they make much better choices.

And for the record, I didn't go vegetarian because I wanted to save poor animals. I did it because I think it's a much better way to eat and especially because it's like a billion times more friendly for the environment. That and I don't like some practices of the meat industry. Saving animals is just a bonus for me.

[IrishGuy]

People are fat because of what they eat and portion size. Fried foods and heavily processed foods are ridiculously high in calories, but meat is very beneficial when consumed in moderation. It contains all the necessary amino acids (humans require certain amino acids from their diet) and a lot of protein. Yes, you can be vegan and get all of the same nutrients but the fact remains if you eat too much of anything it will make you fat. For instance, olive oil and avocados are both "healthy" but contain a lot of calories. Eating them in large portions won't clog your arteries but it will add some pounds...

As far as the billboard is concerned; not too big of a deal. I don't know anyone who really takes PETA that seriously anyway.....I still eat meat and wear leather belts and shoes...

[Vagrant]

There is a direct correlation between cruelty towards animals, and cruelty and violence towards other people. That was one of the founding beliefs of the RSPCA in the 19th Century, but became dumbed-down during the 20th Century. The syndrome now being revisited by psychologists, sociologists and law enforcement.I absolutely love your sarcasm.

Cruelty towards animals in early life such as childhood is noted to show psychotic tendencies later in life. But usually the cruel treatment is to animals that can actually complain -- mammals in other words.

I torment ants ALL the freaking time. It's part of my job, actually. But I certainly wouldn't torment a mammal, let alone a human (except maybe if she liked that...).

And the ants are actually kinda cute. Picking them up with soft forceps is funny because they flail all their limbs wildly.

[Wintersun]

have you knonw that vegetarians gets wheight? gladiators were fat people yet they were vegetarians or atleast ate less meat its proven by scientists.., with fat shell on there body, they could feel less pain when stabbed, and that sheel stopped much bleding. vegetarians gain weight becous of carbohydrates in thier food..(read it somewhere i dont know how to prove it, but it was scientific magazine).
kill me or not, but i think these days food are bad for your health and it makes you fat becous of all the chemical shit they are putting in the food, to make it taste goo, smell good etc.. look at the fast food, can you compare it with your own made food at home?
even products such as vegetables, meat, fruits. they all are modyfied and that feels alot...
world is getting to trash further and further away...

Firstly, all matter are chemicals. Probably a better term is "artificial chemicals".

Vocabulary Nazi fun aside, preservatives and flavourings generally tend to have a very low calorie content. Genetic modification of food does not increase its calorie content per unit mass by much though as well. Thus, these processes do not make a person fat.

The main objection people have to modification and addition of artificial chemicals is that there is a chance of long-term health detriments. It hasn't been either proven or disproven so far.

I disagree and your example of lettuce is so pathological as to not even be applicable in reality as it would take about 36 pounds of raw lettuce to receive even 2000 calories.

True on the specific example of lettuce (say, Iceberg lettuce), with 10kcal/100g energy content.

A lardass who eats 15kg of lettuce a day because "you can eat as much as you want" and does no exercise will gain weight though, based on the approximate baseline of 1400kcal/day for critical body processes only. It's not necessarily not applicable in reality, given that people generally eat lettuce with salad dressing (which has a much higher energy content/unit mass than plain lettuce does, and thus don't really need to consume 15kg of lettuce).

Someone else who eats exactly 2 quarter pounders w/cheese a day will intake only 1030 kcal and end up losing weight.

I'm a vegetarian. I don't like peta much, actually I don't really like any of those "animal rights" organization as I usually don't agree with the methods they use to promote ethical treatment. That being said, I find that add pretty funny.

Some facts I want to get straight:

Yeah, being a vegetarian will make you lose weight if you eat right. I was in awesome shape when I started the whole vegetarian thing a year ago and I lost 10 pounds the first month, without even trying and I already had a great diet prior to that. The vegan food usually has a lot less calories/sugars/salt/saturated fat so for achieving the same "filling state" you eat much less stuff that gets converted to fat in the end.

And for those who stated that it's ok to eat meat even if a little, I've stumbled on studies (cited in local newspaper, no vegan propaganda) that says all red meat is bad. It was kind of pointing to all meat are bad but a little white meat doesn't seem to hurt.

Some stated that you get deficiencies with a vegetarian diet. I've been doing it for a year and I've never felt so good, I've never had that much energy before. I don't have any of those supposed deficiencies and I don't take supplements. It's all about eating right. Meat is pretty much just proteins and iron which is a waste of food intake in my opinion. Fruits and vegetables usually have a lot more minerals and vitamins so they make much better choices.

And for the record, I didn't go vegetarian because I wanted to save poor animals. I did it because I think it's a much better way to eat and especially because it's like a billion times more friendly for the environment. That and I don't like some practices of the meat industry. Saving animals is just a bonus for me.

Newspapers do reference unreliable studies and even unsupported claims for shock value and thus publication and advertising. I would believe this is a logical fallacy of an appeal to misleading authority.

In any case, vegetables are not lacking in the majority of the nutrients that meat has, that I'm aware of. It's just that meat has them in a more concentrated form (amino acids, particularly). Ultimately, all energy does come from plants (from photosynthesis) and the great majority of vitamins and minerals do come in that way as well, but animals will concentrate them in their body for their own use.

Vegetables do tend to be more filling than meat for the same energy content, though, due to a higher content of both water and dietary fibre. A side benefit is that vegetarians are highly unlikely to get constipation.

It may be more energy efficient to eat an omnivorous diet than a purely vegetarian diet, prior to the age of supplements. Now that those are around, though, there's hardly any problems.

Most supplements have a near-zero calorie content.

Should one want to steer clear of supplements though, it would probably be best to "eat all foods in moderation", rather than only going with the non-meat varieties, should health be your only consideration in considering vegetarianism.

**EDIT**

To Vagrant:

Hmm. But that wouldn't be tormenting then, would it. It'd be pain, but it'd be a pleasure...

**END EDIT**

[BlizzarD]

sorry for my bad english :(

why do yuo talk only about calories? there are plenty of more factors that helps you get weights in no time.. atleast iam sure of that..

[ToC]

I think people are getting overly hot and bothered. It's a funny billboard. It obviously catches our attention. Yes PETA's methods may be harsh, unorthodox and fallacious. No, eating meat does not make you a kitten killer.

[Wintersun]

sorry for my bad english :(

why do yuo talk only about calories? there are plenty of more factors that helps you get weights in no time.. atleast iam sure of that..

Due to the interconvertible nature of nutrients.

I think people are getting overly hot and bothered. It's a funny billboard. It obviously catches our attention. Yes PETA's methods may be harsh, unorthodox and fallacious. No, eating meat does not make you a kitten killer.

Unless it's kitten meat.

Or unless if you huff kittens but forget to breathe the soul back in.

Especially the orange type.

[jikin]

I don't think it went too far. Is it offensive? Well, yes. Did they accomplish their goal of getting attention to their cause? Yes, and you know what? I'm sure there are even some so called "whales" that went to their site watched the videos and read the information they had there. I'm sure that there are probably some that are changing their lifestlye and eating habits because of it.
Will their number of followers sky rocket overnight because of this campain? No, probably not, but they probably consider every one they get to be a win.

To answer the question of "can you be a fat vegetarian?": the answer is yes. Technically you can live off of Oreos, soda pop, and chips and still consider yourself a total vegan. You don't even have to consider looking at a vegetable; the only animal that will be harmed is yourself.

[pip]

This is tame.
I mean, for a PETA 'stunt' its hopelessly bland, and incredibly disapointing.
They'll have a hard time topping the awesome of *Sea Kittens! :p

* I wondered what had happened to all those kittens in weighted bags I threw off the pier last month - it turns out they evolved....

[Takeru]

PETA has always gone too far....

Hey... I love animals... but food is food. If they are cheap and If they are kept just fine ... I don't care if chickens are crammed >.<.... that bill that got passed in California is just a big nonsense along with prop 98.

[The Forsaken]

They do that to everyone. Even to autistics. Which reminds me... Here's a nice link: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[Monte314]

PETA has yanked the ad...

[Mjolnir]

I think that what is more offensive are the health problems that are related to obesity and the strain they put on our health care system. And I say this coming form a family that is mostly obese and being recently obese myself, as well as being a vegetarian. I was more than 280 lbs and decided to do something about it. I learned about nutrition and now 15 months later I have lost 120 pounds, so I think I am entitled to see things from both sides.

I think everyone needs a bitchslap to wake them up to the horrors of our food industry and the lifestyles we choose. Honestly, I think this ad is hilarious, makes a good point, and is relatively tame. I was expecting MUCH worse when I opened the thread, like PETA members throwing fake dead animal guts off overpasses or something.

[Squirelznflight]

I think a brutally honest required course for all chronically and dangerously obese people detailing the effects of being so unhealthy on the body and brain would be more effective than the term "whale"... but that's just me. You know-- high school health class style, complete with pictures.

ANYTHING would have been more environmentally effective. I mean... fat person=aquatic mammal that sings? What?

[Vulcanesse]

I've never paid attention to PETA much, but when I saw the name of their blog I realized they were insane.

I'm not offended by it, per se. It's sort of a chuckle at first glance, the play on words and all. But come on, what are you trying to say about you're organization.

They're like some sort of parody of an actual animal rights organization that you would see on Mad TV

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[ElstonGunn]

Yeah, being a vegetarian will make you lose weight if you eat right.

Vegetarianism and healthy eating are both dietary minorities in the US. They overlap a lot-- a lot of vegetarians are concerned about eating healthy. That doesn't imply that any vegetarian diet is automatically more healthy than any omnivore diet. A person could eat meat and be health conscious, and another person could avoid all animal products and instead base his diet around Twinkies and Mr Pibb. Who would be in better shape?

If a person monitors his diet closely with a strict eye on its health implications, eating meat or not eating it isn't likely to be a major factor in health. Both vegetarian and omnivorous diets offer the opportunity to get all the nutrition that a person needs and avoid unhealthy food. If you can get all the proteins you need from plant foods, good for you. If you can eat meat and avoid excess fat, salt, and sugar, you'll also be healthy.

[smashy]

As a marketer, I only see PETA ads the same way I used to see the ones from Benetton a few years ago: they're there just to shock, create attention and make people talk about them. But I just think that what they're doing is too much. I'm not a vegetarian, I eat lots of meat and I'm not fat. So, one thing it's not connect to the other and I find it quite offensive to fat people, especially to the ones that are fat not because they eat meat but because they have health problems. I guess they should change their advertising agency...

[Vagrant]

They do that to everyone. Even to autistics. Which reminds me... Here's a nice link: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

The Onion. Tabloid.

[lamplighter]

I'm sorry, but exactly what's offensive about comparing a fat person to a whale? If you're fat maybe you should try being a vegetarian, whatever your doing now certainly isn't working! I'm not a vegetarian, but I agree with Peta that factory farms are horrible, and would like to see laws passed that make most animals raised for food free roam and to put an end to hormone injections.

[smashy]

I'm sorry, but exactly what's offensive about comparing a fat person to a whale? If you're fat maybe you should try being a vegetarian, whatever your doing now certainly isn't working! I'm not a vegetarian, but I agree with Peta that factory farms are horrible, and would like to see laws passed that make most animals raised for food free roam and to put an end to hormone injections.

So, now is the fat people that look like whales that are responsible for those factory farms!?

Eating too much meat can lead to high colesterol levels and that has nothing to do with being fat. You can be skinny and have high colesterol levels, or even worse, be skinny and have interior fat between your organs!

So, blaming fat people and call then whales is just being ignorant.

[Wintersun]

So, now is the fat people that look like whales that are responsible for those factory farms!?

Eating too much meat can lead to high colesterol levels and that has nothing to do with being fat. You can be skinny and have high colesterol levels, or even worse, be skinny and have interior fat between your organs!

So, blaming fat people and call then whales is just being ignorant.

Interior fat between the organs is essential actually... to prevent mechanical damage and to give some form of insulation.

Cholesterol doesn't have anything to do with being fat though. They are cyclic sterols, which are non-interconvertible with chain-form triglycerides that are the primary form of animal fat.

It's pretty difficult to be skinny and have high cholesterol levels at the same time, unless you eat some form of purified sterol mix, though it is certainly possible.

Lastly, plants contain cholesterols too.

[smashy]

Interior fat between the organs is essential actually... to prevent mechanical damage and to give some form of insulation.

Cholesterol doesn't have anything to do with being fat though. They are cyclic sterols, which are non-interconvertible with chain-form triglycerides that are the primary form of animal fat.

It's pretty difficult to be skinny and have high cholesterol levels at the same time, unless you eat some form of purified sterol mix, though it is certainly possible.

Lastly, plants contain cholesterols too.

You can accumulate high levels of interior fat (through eating junk food, for example) next to your organs that are not natural and will compress your organs and can cause heart attacks.

It's not difficult to be skinny and have high colesterol levels. One thing is your metabolism and the ability your body has to store (or not) fat above your muscles, other thing is the ability your body has to get rid of fat in your blood. You would be surprised to know how many skinny people have high colesterol levels due to poor eating habits.

[Tyrant Soup]

Making fun of people and calling them names is a great way to win them over. They should try racial slurs next.

[Sunshine]

I've never paid attention to PETA much, but when I saw the name of their blog I realized they were insane.

I'm not offended by it, per se. It's sort of a chuckle at first glance, the play on words and all. But come on, what are you trying to say about you're organization.

They're like some sort of parody of an actual animal rights organization that you would see on Mad TV

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That is awesome and just further illustrates that Peta is a complete joke.

[ozarkshillbilly]

What I dislike about the billboard (and PETA in general) is that it perpetuates a Disney version of nature that is so popular today... that simply changing to a veggie diet will alleviate animal suffering and cruelty. Have any of them ever spent significant time observing critters in nature? The other complaint is the notion that, somehow, eating veggies is a better and more noble choice.

Veggies are usually raised unsustainably, regardless of whether labelled 'organic' or not. Livestock can be raised sustainably, and slaughtered ethically with minimum pain (i.e., far less pain than nature imparts).

Best way to eat ethically? Grow your own. Next best? Go visit a local farm and buy direct from a farmer with values you respect. One who preserves topsoil and cares about his critters.