Has your time at INTJforum changed your political views?

[meanlittlechimp]

Has your time here changed your political views at all?

[TheLastMohican]

On one issue, yes: I changed my mind about the abortion of nonviable fetuses after another member linked to an elegantly logical argument from Murray Rothbard's The Ethics of Liberty. Besides that, I don't think any of my views have changed, but most have become more tentative. The forum has exposed me to enough different perspectives and compelling points so that I am less likely to be persuaded by any one argument, and more likely to reserve judgment until more facts show up. Additionally, I have come to judge more political issues on the question of what works best here and now, rather than sticking to ideological principles as if they can ever realistically be exercised by the government. Compromise isn't so bad.

[Tocsin]

Nope. But it has given me the opportunity to refine my arguments.

[Ray9]

I like it here. If anything my views have been reinforced by what I see. There's a wide distribution of personalities here that I find interesting and refreshing. I've only changed my mind once in my life and that was when Ronald Reagan ran for president. Up until then I swore I would never vote for an actor or an entertainer who ran for political office.

[wittykitty]

I think I'm much more open to other views thanks to this forum, because those views have generally been presented with many logical points and backed by facts/references/the works. I wouldn't say the forum has changed my views so much as helped define exactly what mine are.

[meanlittlechimp]

I like it here. If anything my views have been reinforced by what I see. There's a wide distribution of personalities here that I find interesting and refreshing. I've only changed my mind once in my life and that was when Ronald Reagan ran for president. Up until then I swore I would never vote for an actor or an entertainer who ran for political office.

Liar! Don't tell me you didn't support Arnold S.

[Synamon]

I identify with being left more than I did before, but that is relative to the predominantly American viewpoints on this forum which are much further right than I'm used to. My stance hasn't shifted, I guess it probably solidified. The far right libertarian views make me cringe when I read them.

[rickster]

No. I find "left" and "right" constructs absolutely absurd, entirely restrictive and constantly changing. I strive to apoliticism, and I'm fundamentally suspicious of the goals and truths of both left and right. I'd really rather know each and every aspect of an issue. I have no partisan loyalties or affiliations, and I find two-party politics reactive and dumb.

I've backed off from US politics since I'm no longer there, but it's interesting how it spills over to my main areas of interest here.

I find my views and prejudices here being constantly challenged from a very wide diversity of thinking, and that's an amazing and stimulating thing. I absolutely love it, and it's sharpened up quite a few skills I'd let slide.

[Nemesis]

I identify with being left more than I did before, but that is relative to the predominantly American viewpoints on this forum which are much further right than I'm used to. My stance hasn't shifted, I guess it probably solidified. The far right libertarian views make me cringe when I read them.

I think this may resonate with many of the Canadian posters on INJf. Even some of the more conservative canuks would look like bleeding heart liberals around here. I wouldn't say I have shifted either, but I am noticing a little more wiggle room because of some of the great arguments put forth by various posters.

[themuzicman]

It is always good to get around some younger folks to hear what they are saying, but this generation has nothing really new to say as their arguments are the same as the ones my parents made.

I've become more convinced of the need for the development of wisdom, knowledge of political history and institutional knowledge, and to value them over logic, as logic almost always fails to take into account all the relevant information. Indeed, the individual is very capable of ignoring obvious contradictory evidence in support of one's "reasoned" opinion.

[larkin]

Yes, I prefer hearing from people I might disagree with, even if only for the purpose of defining exactly how I disagree with them. That alone is worth something, given all the noise and red herrings and talking points there are floating around, specifically for the purpose of making these disagreements emotional.

And along those lines, I think it's much easier to understand where resolution or compromise might come from when you stop thinking of people as strictly "republican" or "democrat". Everyone has their own issues and concerns that are motivating their beliefs, rarely do they follow U.S. party lines.

[Undead Bonzi]

This forum has shifted me slightly more libertarian along the libertarian/authoritarian lines but I have remained in the center between left and right (I can't stand dogmatic devotion to either party ideal). As others have said, mostly the forum has just refined my own view points. This of course makes a strong case that ignorance is a human universal. Look at all the well reasoned arguments put forth by both sides on so many issues....yet so few have ever changed their minds in any significant way on any significant issue.

[dragonsscout]

No, I don't think that my positions have been changed, but, as others said, they have been refined. There are a lot of great arguments from various posters that have made me rethink some of my reasoning or at least try to consciously rationalize my reasoning about certain issues.

[ElstonGunn]

My political opinions have become stronger and gone further to the left since I've started coming here, but I think that's mostly coincidental. I don't think hanging around here has been as much of a factor in influencing my opinions as much as other things have been.

[Prunesquallor]

I think this may resonate with many of the Canadian posters on INJf. Even some of the more conservative canuks would look like bleeding heart liberals around here. I wouldn't say I have shifted either, but I am noticing a little more wiggle room because of some of the great arguments put forth by various posters.

Likewise. It's been interesting to see some right-wing conservative viewpoints actually defended, rather than mocked (which is all that I'm used to), but I can't say that I've been convinced, though I do have a clearer picture of some alien ways of thinking and have heard more arguments on things that I'm used to being taken for granted, which is useful.

[daydreamer]

my general leanings havent changed. but as i'm constantly searching for more info and perspective on individual issues, yes, the forum has had some impact. i like picking people's brains here and appreciate what they say.

[Cincinnatus]

I can't really say that my position has changed. Granted, if someone has a really well spoken point, then I might agree with them (and have on occasion). The one thing I have known to change is my articulation of my thoughts, which I appreciate immensely. It's hard enough getting people to acknowledge they understand the point I'm trying to make, let alone have them agree with it. In fact, I'm not really sure if I care whether they agree with it or not.

[jesse]

My views have not changed as a result of joining and participating on the forum. Having them potentially change has never been the intention of being here.

I enjoy reading what others have to say on issues from a political perspective as they sometimes do have refreshing things to say while sometimes they simply reinforce their views. Either way, it makes for an interesting read.

[BostonIan]

Same general opinion on the proper role of a state, but more realpolitik and willing to play either side. My stock answer to complaints about the privileges of the wealthy has always been: sounds good, sign me up. Now, the same idea is applied to government patronage, financial institutions, populism.

Compare that to a year ago, where I wouldn't get a driver's license because I resented the government imposition. The change was seeing all politics as the leveraging of power for obtaining wants. If there's a constant struggle for everything worth wanting, then staying out of the fight is losing by forfeit, and fighting a greater power is a loss as well.

No direct conversation here put those ideas in my head, but there seems to be a familiar flavor, and I'm sure the picture formed out of a year of reading the individual debates.

[meanlittlechimp]

Interesting. Only 10% of the viewers of the thread bothered to participate in the poll; even though it's private.

Overall, the forum seems to tenuously effect more to swing right - obviously the sample size is pitifully small. Maybe because the right's argument's here are more intelligent or persuasive.

For the ones that have became extremely more right can you explain why?

If your to shy to tell us publicly here... can you PM me with the posts or profound arguments that helped change you? I may very well have skipped some really good posts or arguments.

[Synamon]

Interesting. Only 10% of the viewers of the thread bothered to participate in the poll; even though it's private.

The view counter for threads includes multiple views from the same members plus views from unregistered users who can't post or vote as well as search bots. The actual view to vote ratio for this thread is close to 2:1 for forum members.

[meanlittlechimp]

Liar! Don't tell me you didn't support Arnold S.

Btw, wasn't trying to be a dick. I don't mind him that much, in fact, he's one of my favorite Republicans (that actually wields significant power).

I'll also admit I was a vocal vehement Reaganite, in high school - until i studied economics in college. When I was 15 I used to call all liberals; whining little crybabies.

The view counter for threads includes multiple views from the same members plus views from unregistered users who can't post or vote as well as search bots. The actual view to vote ratio for this thread is close to 2:1 for forum members.

ahh!! makes complete sense.

[Synamon]

Btw, wasn't trying to be a dick. I don't mind him that much, in fact, he's one of my favorite Republicans (that actually wields significant power).

I'll also admit I was a vocal vehement Reaganite, in high school - until i studied economics in college. When I was 15 I used to call all liberals; whining little crybabies.

Since you are curious what changed people's political views, what changed yours? Was it solely learning economic theory? That doesn't usually move people to the left I'd wager.

[meanlittlechimp]

Since you are curious what changed people's political views, what changed yours? Was it solely learning economic theory? That doesn't usually move people to the left I'd wager.

I usually have data driven or economic rationales (not claiming I'm the final authority - just my rationale is motivated by my economic thinking and not the other way around); for my views expressed here (if you take the time to read them) on foreign policy, gun control, health care, energy policy, cash for clunkers, peak oil, inflation, deficits, global warming, national debt, etc etc.

But I'll admit, maybe, I just really suck at economics.

Incidentally, Economist magazine polled professional economists here.... (not saying it proves anything) To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[boldbidder]

I voted 'pretty much the same'. I'm decidedly left leaning, but I enjoy interacting with thoughtful conservatives. I find the exchange of differing ideas and opinions stimulating even if we don't agree. I've found in my professional life that arriving at the best solutions almost invariably involve having a rigorous debate about all the ideas on the table. The only time impassable issues arise is when individuals weight the importance of their own ego too heavily. Solving problems, regardless of size or complexity can ALWAYS be accomplished in more than one way, many times the differing solutions that can lead to success may not resemble each other in even the slightest. I think in our political discord we fail to understand that. Operating under the unhealthy guise that if the idea was invented here (within my own ideological camp) it fundamentally has no worth. This latter sort of behavior invariably prevents the most optimal solution from being reached.

[Merle]

I identify with being left more than I did before, but that is relative to the predominantly American viewpoints on this forum which are much further right than I'm used to. My stance hasn't shifted, I guess it probably solidified. The far right libertarian views make me cringe when I read them.

Almost exactly what I was going to write. (Although I see I'm the only person who has answered "More Left now"... I answered that because, I now view myself as further to the left in comparison to others... I'd never come across people with such far right views before I joined here so I thought of myself then as, well, almost centrist;) )

[IrishGuy]

My political views remain unchanged, but I will admit that I doubt that I have been here long enough to be changed. However, I doubt my time on this forum will significantly alter my political views.

To summarize my political position I will merely state that liberals accuse me of being conservative and conservatives accuse me of being liberal or a "Kool-Aide drinking, hate-America, leftist" as one INTJf member put it. Frankly, I do not identify with any political party. This is why I think my general political views will remain unchanged; they are very individualized. I might sway one way or the other on some individual issues, but the impact of that movement in thinking will be isolated to that one issue, I think, simply because I do not have an easily identifiable political philosophy (people's accusations that I am liberal/conservative are a testament to this).

What will make me change my position on an issue? A compelling argument that neither others nor myself can turn into Swiss-cheese.

[Zsych]

I favor different elements of either side, and IMO, all that matters is that government benefit people and improve their lives (not what supposed ideals they support)

I am actually quite willing to change my mind on any issue if I believe my understanding is incorrect, and it does happen from time to time, but I haven't changed my views on political issues significantly since I've been here.

[Ytterbium]

My views are the same as before. The way I explain them have however changed. I see myself as a socialist and that appearantly is a bad way to describe oneself in America.
What I've seen here is that people are generally clueless about politics. They think they know but when they write something they clearly have no clue. They may say that socialism is bad and evil. In the next line they say that everyone should have roads and services such as the post or electricity to their dwellings, provided by the state. And that is by definination socialism. I think people here and elsewhere lean to the left unbeknowst to them or simply they don't like to call themselves such.
That's why badge engineering seems to work.
Nice car, was is it?
*looks at the grille*
A Ford.
Ah Fords are good..

I've written it before libertarianism is silly. There're no such thing. However one twist and turn you are going to end up with rules and regulations that not everyone likes. The majority thinks so and thus it's done so, that's democracy. It will kill itself. Everyone has guns and defend their property. However no one knows who is who and what is what. Because the state is evil and not allowed to exist to deal with such things. People will start shooting at eachother and it will be a third world country.
On the economic side. Capitalism isn't good if the people/country can't bear the fruits of it. Thus it must be better if the profits could be distrobuted to the population such as in health-care and schooling. A healthy and well educated population can bring more profits to the companies and thus to the country/themselves.

[hubcap]

Can't say, just got here last week.

Time will tell I suppose.