Reconstructing Past Conversations

[Rei]

Okay... so I've noticed this for a while now. Though not really recognizing it as something that is possibly constructive.

I realized that when I've had a conversation I had a bad impression of (because of something I might have accidentally said wrong/differently, giving wrong impressions etc.), I reconstruct it in my head, and I sort of re-do the conversation in a way that might have made it better. I go as far as to think about how the other person might reply differently.

At first I thought I was going a little insane because essentially, that means you're having a conversation with yourself (plus the factors of the other person's personality stuck in there somewhere)... but really, this is probably the best way to learn how to socialize more effectively/smoothly, minus the excessive real screw-ups.

So I was just wondering if anyone else does this. It seems to be something an INTX might do to improve themselves no?


Also, does anyone else do something similar? Other ways to improve social skills etc?

[Colette]

Yes, I have imagined conversations with other people in my head all the time.

And yes, I am insane ;)

[OneBadMother]

I do that very often indeed. Usually they're kind of one-sided arguments. It's not so much an improvement thing for me as a relatively healthy way for me to vent.

[chocky]

Absolutely! I do this all the time - always assumed it was normal. Could there possibly be people out there who don't reconstruct conversations? That's a scary thought!

Oh it does help me figure out how to improve my conversation. I need several lifetime's hindsight and rehearsal!

[Anon722]

I do it all the time too. I do so as an atempt to improve conversation and argument skill, but I don't think it works really well.

Does it work for you?

[Jgib5328]

I constantly do this to help improve my social skills, it has helped a lot.

[Uytuun]

I do it quite often. I also prepare for important conversations by going through different scenarios and acting them out (in my head or out loud, doesn't really make that much of a difference). In general I talk to myself a lot. Mostly in English, even though it's not my native language. Hmm...English seems to be the language of my inner world. No wonder I have problems constructing a whole sentence in Dutch.

[Rei]

I do it all the time too. I do so as an atempt to improve conversation and argument skill, but I don't think it works really well.

Does it work for you?

I'm not sure whether it works or not for different scenarios. But I know that if I encounter the same/similar situation again, I'll get it better than the first time.

I do it quite often. I also prepare for important conversations by going through different scenarios and acting them out (in my head or out loud, doesn't really make that much of a difference). In general I talk to myself a lot. Mostly in English, even though it's not my native language. Hmm...English seems to be the language of my inner world. No wonder I have problems constructing a whole sentence in Dutch.

That reminds me of when I have to call people. I hate the phone, so I always play out the dialog beforehand.

The language of my inner world is this weird interchangeable thing. I think in whatever language my environment is speaking. Unless of course, it's a language I don't know... then I'd just be trying to make something up with random words from other similar languages (e.g. someone speaking Italian would make me speak FrenchxSpanishxEnglish)

[quentin]

I pre-construct conversations all the time. When I go to bed at night I run though potential conversations with friends the next time I might see them. Disappointingly, by the time I get to the real-life conversations with other people, they aren't nearly as interesting or successful as the conversations I had with myself in my head.

[OneBadMother]

Ah, I do also do the conversation forecast too. When I was younger I used to wonder what was wrong with me because I didn't know why I thought out things to say days or hours beforehand. I agree that they sometimes don't go as planned, which is especially dissapointing when you have certain expectations for a particular conversation.

[Thistle]

Ditto - I frequently do this. Either deconstruct past conversations (how could they have been more effective) or to prepare for difficult conversations which are to be had (what did I learn last time I deconstructed a conversation and how can I use this to my advantage).

Perhaps something with the INTJ quest for perfection?

[JTG]

I don't go over past conversations as much as i go over future conversations, particularly ones involving an unresolved issue or disagreement with somebody. I try to plan my words ahead of time to effectively make my point while minimizing the chance of giving them the impression i'm marginalizing or downplaying their own opinions.

I actually prefer talking in text to talking vocally for this reason. It's so much easier to control what you say when you can look at it, go back and change some words, make it more understandable, etc before you hit that button to send them your thoughts.

[AgentofGaming]

I realized that when I've had a conversation I had a bad impression of (because of something I might have accidentally said wrong/differently, giving wrong impressions etc.), I reconstruct it in my head, and I sort of re-do the conversation in a way that might have made it better. I go as far as to think about how the other person might reply differently.

I do that a lot and today it has even made me feel guilty.


Someone asked me in the subway where Dundas was, the problem was that it's the name of a street and a station. I only thought of the station, although the subway goes in a U so it services the street twice, East and West.
I told him the Station named that was 5 stops away so he decided to go and take the bus (however there's usually very few buses when a subway meets the demand + the snow storm). I tried warning him the bus was slower...


My subconscious told me later I should have mentioned that there were two stations that serviced that road and that the west Station was one stop south.

Conclusion:
My subconscious gives me the best solutions, unfortunately it takes 15 minutes for it to react. This is the cause of my conversation reconstructions.

[Rei]

Conclusion:
My subconscious gives me the best solutions, unfortunately it takes 15 minutes for it to react. This is the cause of my conversation reconstructions.

That is a problem isn't it?

I don't know how many times I thought didn't answer things like these in enough detail...

[Learning]

Conclusion:
My subconscious gives me the best solutions, unfortunately it takes 15 minutes for it to react. This is the cause of my conversation reconstructions.

That is a problem isn't it?
I don't know how many times I thought didn't answer things like these in enough detail...
I get that way, too. Analyzing can be great, like you said, if we can dissect the situation & learn from it. I guess it's dwelling excessively on stuff that's unhealthy, and can ultimately hinder our productivity. It stinks sometimes, the desire to perfect even a simple little conversation. That's likely one of the things that makes interacting with people so challenging.
Oh, and ditto on the delayed response... I hate that mainly because it's just unproductive!

[AgentofGaming]

When I have to talk to someone I spend an hour planning the conversation and plans for their reactions and it hours getting the courage or an approaching the deadline that I even speak to them. Often I drop a event/conversation out of fear it won't work well.

After almost everything I re-evaluate to see if I could have done it better and most of the time it's yes. Not only unproductive it can be unhappy, if you realize what caused you failure was completely preventable.

That is a problem isn't it?

I don't know how many times I thought didn't answer things like these in enough detail...

Yes, but we must learn from our mistakes. What better way than to have your subconscious give you the ideal solution. Too bad these encounters are too few and different so I guess it's unlikely to have a solution beforehand.

Of all the people that asked me for directions I think I messed up 75% of them.

[Duncan Cade]

I do this too, mostly with future conversations. You know what I hate?
I've had the fake conversation with those people. Those people did not have the conversation with me. This way, my affection for them will end up bigger then their feelings for me.

Also, i'ts VERY dissapointing when possible brilliant conversations don't go as planned. You need to give up everthing, and then tadaa, a new, uninteresting or unsuccesfull conversation will unfold.

[Cookabara]

Do you think this is an INTJ thing? I don't think so. Read somewhere that the psychologists found that we all edit our memories. This may sound insane, however it is the best way to maintain your mental health, flushing the negative emotions.

Have you noticed that sometimes the after the reconstruction of the conversation when you meet the person the next day he behaves as if the conversation went the way you imagine, not the way it really was. Wonder if this is due to this other person also editing his memories.

[Rei]

Do you think this is an INTJ thing? I don't think so. Read somewhere that the psychologists found that we all edit our memories. This may sound insane, however it is the best way to maintain your mental health, flushing the negative emotions.

Have you noticed that sometimes the after the reconstruction of the conversation when you meet the person the next day he behaves as if the conversation went the way you imagine, not the way it really was. Wonder if this is due to this other person also editing his memories.

Hm... that last bit is something interesting to think about.
It makes everything so much easier, and harder at the same time. If everyone who got into an argument just edits it to their liking, how will anything get solved?

[quentin]

Memories are easily invented and manipulated. That's why the whole "recovered memories" psychology movement of repressed child abuse turned out to be, on close inspection, such unscientific nonsense.

[AgentofGaming]

Do you think this is an INTJ thing? I don't think so. Read somewhere that the psychologists found that we all edit our memories. This may sound insane, however it is the best way to maintain your mental health, flushing the negative emotions.
Are you sure memories get edited?
I can still remember I had a bad incident of misidentification more than a decade ago. The emotion is gone but the memory is still there.
However there have been conflicts in what happened from memory collections between me and my brother. So memory editing definately happened with one of us, or both.

Have you noticed that sometimes the after the reconstruction of the conversation when you meet the person the next day he behaves as if the conversation went the way you imagine, not the way it really was. Wonder if this is due to this other person also editing his memories.
//Story
Well actually there is something on the lines of this but I'm not exactly sure.
One time I argued with my dad and he was really harsh on me. (the guy sure likes to use high volume)
A relection of events of the day before bedtime probably made him realize he was too harsh on me and sleep makes emotions flush afterall.
So thats what I account for him trying to makeup the next day as I expected.
I don't think he'd need to envision me apologizing to him to flush his emotion, people with bad tempers come to their senses in the morning.
//End Story

Sorry, for the long story, I was bored because the Lab TA took forever to come over and mark my lab.

[Rei]

Are you sure memories get edited?
I can still remember I had a bad incident of misidentification more than a decade ago. The emotion is gone but the memory is still there.
However there have been conflicts in what happened from memory collections between me and my brother. So memory editing definately happened with one of us, or both.


//Story
Well actually there is something on the lines of this but I'm not exactly sure.
One time I argued with my dad and he was really harsh on me. (the guy sure likes to use high volume)
A relection of events of the day before bedtime probably made him realize he was too harsh on me and sleep makes emotions flush afterall.
So thats what I account for him trying to makeup the next day as I expected.
I don't think he'd need to envision me apologizing to him to flush his emotion, people with bad tempers come to their senses in the morning.
//End Story

Sorry, for the long story, I was bored because the Lab TA took forever to come over and mark my lab.

Memories can be edited.
I'm pretty sure of it as I do it unconsciously sometimes (eg. I unconsciously pound a certain version of the memory in my head, only to remember that's not what happened)

Another thing that happens is when I get realistic dreams. Sometime after the dream, I may come across it and think it was an actual memory.
(Once I dreamed I got a pair of running shoes I'd been considering. The next day, I go and look for them remembering the dream as a real event. I didn't find it, and I realized/remembered/logically deduced that it was a dream.)

[AgentofGaming]

Memories can be edited.
I'm pretty sure of it as I do it unconsciously sometimes (eg. I unconsciously pound a certain version of the memory in my head, only to remember that's not what happened)

Another thing that happens is when I get realistic dreams. Sometime after the dream, I may come across it and think it was an actual memory.
(Once I dreamed I got a pair of running shoes I'd been considering. The next day, I go and look for them remembering the dream as a real event. I didn't find it, and I realized/remembered/logically deduced that it was a dream.)
The unconscious mind sure does a lot of manipulating, think of the possibilities.
It kind of feels that I'm not my whole. As I'm not in control of the part that drifts weird ideas into my consciousness. It can be useful, but it is worrying. We don't make many conscious choices of what we like, or what to keep in our minds. The unconscious mind is immensely more powerful than the conscious and completely autonomous (like it solves midterm problems for you) but you can't control it. It's like a part of us that's too complex for us to control.

As for dreams, I can relate (I've thought my computer was better than it was before to my own dissapointment). When dreams really don't make sense I wake up, but the dreams that make perfect sense have you waking up thinking it was real.

(I should stop obsessing over buying computer parts)

[Rei]

The unconscious mind sure does a lot of manipulating, think of the possibilities.
It kind of feels that I'm not my whole. As I'm not in control of the part that drifts weird ideas into my consciousness. It can be useful, but it is worrying. We don't make many conscious choices of what we like, or what to keep in our minds. The unconscious mind is immensely more powerful than the conscious and completely autonomous (like it solves midterm problems for you) but you can't control it. It's like a part of us that's too complex for us to control.

As for dreams, I can relate (I've thought my computer was better than it was before to my own dissapointment). When dreams really don't make sense I wake up, but the dreams that make perfect sense have you waking up thinking it was real.

(I should stop obsessing over buying computer parts)

Actually, I think that any part of our mental selves we are aware of can be controlled. It may take some serious focus/practice/organization, but that is what a normal person should be able to do. There's definitely some automatic reactions for the sake of adaptation and survival, but you can fight that too (though maybe you shouldn't...).

To be entirely without control would be to have mental disorders. When you aren't even aware of such problems. (crazy people don't know/believe they are crazy)

[PortInStorm]

I'd have to take exception there. Many people with mental illness feel that difference keenly. I worked with some of them, I can only try to imagine the frustration they feel comparing themselves to others, or to their former selves. For instance, I'm sure this is nothing new to folks here, but schizophrenia's onset is usually in the late teens (males esp)- so you definitely know something's wrong.

I don't want to be PC here, but calling those with mental illness crazy is like calling those with physical disabilities "cripples" with all the connotations of that word (ie. not able to do anything, not being normal in any sense). I know it was meant as a quick clarification, but keep in mind people with mental illness are just like us, but have an extra burden such that many dream to just live one of our normal days.

[AgentofGaming]

Actually, I think that any part of our mental selves we are aware of can be controlled. It may take some serious focus/practice/organization, but that is what a normal person should be able to do. There's definitely some automatic reactions for the sake of adaptation and survival, but you can fight that too (though maybe you shouldn't...).

I like to tap it by understanding a problem (say reading over an exam) and letting it work itself out. Sometimes its slow, like getting a solution a week after an exam...
As well there is focus, like being alone, and not considering anything like pre-sleep/shower.
Although that's not on purpose, and then ideas come too often and it gets annoying.

The self-protection part can be annoying. Don't fight the part that says crossing a street with fast cars is wrong. However I would say fight the self-preservation part that tells me talking to a person entails a high risk of embarrassment.

Anyone have any insights as to controlling the subprocesses?