Let's see how far you can think out the box.

[muguly]

I have a couple of thougts....possible theories that some might find interesting.
1) The Pyramids, Easter Island, etc.
What if people from another dimension placed those object there. Sound crazy but read me out: We can only percieve what our senses tell us. There are 3 dimensions that we can function in. Us being 3D objects can insert something into a lesser dimension. With that in mind, wouldn't is be possible that people from another dimension, a fourth or fifth, placed those things, or the technology, here for us to utilize?

2) The Rise and Fall of Civilizations
History has taught that once a civilization reaches its peak it begins to decline. I believe the U.S.A is heading in that direction. Already the U.S. dollar is weaker that ever, causing massive problems in the economy. And we all know, once the economic system of any civilization degrades, it's only a matter of time before everything else follows. There is no true leadership. The government agencies are just waisting money and time not fixing, or even addressing most major problems. The level of corruption in the government allows things to happen that should never be mentioned. Are we still the greatest nation in the world?

3)....there was a three but I can't remember so......

[Jgib5328]

I have a couple of thougts....possible theories that some might find interesting.
1) The Pyramids, Easter Island, etc.
What if people from another dimension placed those object there. Sound crazy but read me out: We can only percieve what our senses tell us. There are 3 dimensions that we can function in. Us being 3D objects can insert something into a lesser dimension. With that in mind, wouldn't is be possible that people from another dimension, a fourth or fifth, placed those things, or the technology, here for us to utilize?

2) The Rise and Fall of Civilizations
History has taught that once a civilization reaches its peak it begins to decline. I believe the U.S.A is heading in that direction. Already the U.S. dollar is weaker that ever, causing massive problems in the economy. And we all know, once the economic system of any civilization degrades, it's only a matter of time before everything else follows. There is no true leadership. The government agencies are just waisting money and time not fixing, or even addressing most major problems. The level of corruption in the government allows things to happen that should never be mentioned. Are we still the greatest nation in the world?

3)....there was a three but I can't remember so......


1) Is certainly a fascinating Idea, but I honestly doubt that that did happen, but I agree that if a higher dimensional being existed and came into your four dimensional universe, than we wouldn't be able to percieve it.

2) The US has been slipping in global influence, but it is still by far a global superpower. You don't understand the current economic situation. The problems in the economy started from mortgage brokers giving out sub prime mortgages (mortgages to people with shitty credit) these are for the most part adjustable rate mortgages, so the interest rate starts off low than rises significantly in the future, so of course this leads to a massive wave of defaults. Because of the beauty of American Capitalism, the SAM ( I think that's what is called) packaged these mortgages for investors to buy. So a whole bunch of people and corporations put a lot of money into these mortgages and then they lost a lot of money when the defaults started happening (obviously a simplified explanation). Also the housing market is turning to shit too and the home prices are at an 11 year low, decrease in US housing economy is terrible for the consumers, because it basically means their purchasing power is decreasing (hence the bush econ stimulus plan). Well yeah so now Bernanke (Fed Chairman) decided he had to do something, he decided to cut the interest rates to increase the liquidity in the market (easier access to money). Well whenever an interest rate is lower, investors decide that the currency is worth less value, so there is a massive selling. People sell the US dollars and buy the Euros, yens, pounds etc, because they are a better investment (this is basically what determines currency rates, buying and selling of money in the money market). Therefore the US dollar has been decreasing ever since September or whenever the first rate cut occurred, and will decrease tomorrow, because probably there will be another rate cut. Oh yeah, and the US isn't the only one suffering, all over the world people are feeling the effects of the Subprime, the US is still the economic leader by far. In conclusion the US dollar decreasing is not the key reason for the economic troubles.

No true leadership? Give an example. When you are going to bash Bush, give me logical responses not (Bush is soooo stupid!) For the record, I am not a Bush fan, I just hate dumb responses like that.

Government is wasting money, but pretty much all bureaucracies are a mess, same goes for other countries..

Corruption? Give examples for this too. That whole 9/11 conspiracy? Every country has corruption, plus China is the most corrupt economically relevant nation right now. Every country has their problems, the US is not excluded, get over it the world isn't perfect.

Are we still the greatest nation in the world? Fuck yeah (not a fact, merely an opinion of an American)

I expect intelligent responses, not bull shit..

[Caramel]

1) is definately an interesting subject. If beings from a higher dimension would place technology for us, would they then do so again? I'd like to see what they would come up with ;) (Teleporter, please!)

2) I'm staying out of this subject because subjects like these tend to 'hurt' people.

3. Ditto.

[muguly]

I am not a Bush basher, just an observer of things hidden in plain sight
By no true leadership I mean no one who will step up and take responsibility for any agency. Now that's not to say there aren't people in charge, it's that the people in charge are being controlled by someone else so whe something goes wrong instead of saying "I" it's always someone else. Too much red tape and ass covering to get anything done. When one person in any organization can say "jump" and everyone does it without asking for the proper forms to be filed and channels be contacted, then I will call him/her a leader. Until then, everyone just b/s's around to me.

I will never deny that every country has its problems. I am simply pointing out the fact that the U.S. is following the path of the Greek, Roman, Persian, Mongolian, and various other empires. If a nation were to govern itself and not try to become the most powerful then there would be a stable, functioning government. Only when people overstep their bounaries does the process of decline begin. If you conquer the world, who's going to run it? There will be coups and unrisings, revolutions and eventually another nation would be born. So, in essence what I'm saying is that if we all minded our own business while respecting their differences in others, a claim constantly made by this country, then their would be no decline, no revolution because why fight if no one makes you angry?

[Jgib5328]

1) is definately an interesting subject. If beings from a higher dimension would place technology for us, would they then do so again? I'd like to see what they would come up with ;) (Teleporter, please!)

2) I'm staying out of this subject because subjects like these tend to 'hurt' people.

3. Ditto.


A higher dimensional being in theory would be able to teleport. If you think about it, we are 3 dimensional beings; we exist in 4-d, we travel through 3-d, and we can control 2 & 1 D. So a let's say a 4-d being existed, it would exist in 5-d, travel through 4-d (time travel), and be able to control 3 & 2 & 1 d. At least I think so, I'm not a theoretical physicist and I am a Finance and Math major.





Jgib5328 added to this post, 5 minutes and 26 seconds later...

I am not a Bush basher, just an observer of things hidden in plain sight
By no true leadership I mean no one who will step up and take responsibility for any agency. Now that's not to say there aren't people in charge, it's that the people in charge are being controlled by someone else so whe something goes wrong instead of saying "I" it's always someone else. Too much red tape and ass covering to get anything done. When one person in any organization can say "jump" and everyone does it without asking for the proper forms to be filed and channels be contacted, then I will call him/her a leader. Until then, everyone just b/s's around to me.

I will never deny that every country has its problems. I am simply pointing out the fact that the U.S. is following the path of the Greek, Roman, Persian, Mongolian, and various other empires. If a nation were to govern itself and not try to become the most powerful then there would be a stable, functioning government. Only when people overstep their bounaries does the process of decline begin. If you conquer the world, who's going to run it? There will be coups and unrisings, revolutions and eventually another nation would be born. So, in essence what I'm saying is that if we all minded our own business while respecting their differences in others, a claim constantly made by this country, then their would be no decline, no revolution because why fight if no one makes you angry?

Yeah I hate politics, everyone has to please someone else. The Senator from state x has to please his constituents in state x, if he doesn't then they will vote for someone who does. Also we have the political candidates being heavily lobbied by interest groups and large corporations, that is one of the main reasons why we are stuck on oil right now. If you could really fight for what you believe in and be a politician the world would be a better place, but a las this is human nature, the best looking, most charismatic, most agreeable person will always be seen in a more favorable light than his opponents or rivals (ex: Edison over Tesla).

Well yeah I agree with you, the US will eventually fall, I just hope it does after I die.

[thod]

1)
Why not conclude that they were built by 12 foot tall rabbits. There is nothing extra dimensional about them, they are just carved stones.

2)
I dont see the US falling apart overnight. The government is as functional as ever. The dollar is down for good reason.

Are we still the greatest nation in the world? lol, I shall not feed the trolls.

[muguly]

A higher dimensional being in theory would be able to teleport. If you think about it, we are 3 dimensional beings; we exist in 4-d, we travel through 3-d, and we can control 2 & 1 D. So a let's say a 4-d being existed, it would exist in 5-d, travel through 4-d (time travel), and be able to control 3 & 2 & 1 d. At least I think so, I'm not a theoretical physicist and I am a Finance and Math major.

See, that's all I was doing man, just thinking about the possibilities. You got it:thumbsup:





muguly added to this post, 3 minutes and 16 seconds later...

[QUOTE=thod;40633]1)
Why not conclude that they were built by 12 foot tall rabbits. There is nothing extra dimensional about them, they are just carved stones.

2)
I dont see the US falling apart overnight. The government is as functional as ever. The dollar is down for good reason.

Are we still the greatest nation in the world? lol, I shall not feed the trolls.

Think, honestly think about the amount of information not known, and then tell me there isn't an ounce of possibility that anything could happen. Close your eyes, quiet your mouth, put on noise cancelling head phones and open your mind.

[ssfanatic]

I have a couple of thougts....possible theories that some might find interesting.
1) The Pyramids, Easter Island, etc.
What if people from another dimension placed those object there. Sound crazy but read me out: We can only percieve what our senses tell us. There are 3 dimensions that we can function in. Us being 3D objects can insert something into a lesser dimension. With that in mind, wouldn't is be possible that people from another dimension, a fourth or fifth, placed those things, or the technology, here for us to utilize?


Good thought but no. The fourth deminsion is time travel. This video explains it all. Its very interesting.
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

And thinking outside the box is great, i do it all the time. Especially with physics, but all the ideas usually pertain to rational ideas. Im not seeing it with the first one.
And i hate politics, so im not even going into the second :)

[Caramel]

A higher dimensional being in theory would be able to teleport. If you think about it, we are 3 dimensional beings; we exist in 4-d, we travel through 3-d, and we can control 2 & 1 D. So a let's say a 4-d being existed, it would exist in 5-d, travel through 4-d (time travel), and be able to control 3 & 2 & 1 d. At least I think so, I'm not a theoretical physicist and I am a Finance and Math major.


Yes, I've read about the 10 dimensions theory and, at least how I understand it, you're correct. :)

[Jgib5328]

I just remember that I thought of this before and this is related to what I was just talking about. If what I said previously about the 4d beings being about to travel through time. If there was a god, it'd be infinitely dimensional so that it'd be able to manipulate all dimensions. Therefore it isn't so unreasonable for a god to exist, I'm not talking about a specific god, but just like a supreme force of nature. If it was infinitely dimensional that could answer all the questions such as "who created god?" since it is infinitely dimensional it never was created, it has always been, and the specifics of that would obviously be infinitely above our human reasoning. But I just thought that that was a cool thought. I am not religious in any way, I just want to see what other people think about this.

Oh yeah this is my 100th post, congratulations to me.

[ssfanatic]

I just remember that I thought of this before and this is related to what I was just talking about. If what I said previously about the 4d beings being about to travel through time. If there was a god, it'd be infinitely dimensional so that it'd be able to manipulate all dimensions. Therefore it isn't so unreasonable for a god to exist, I'm not talking about a specific god, but just like a supreme force of nature. If it was infinitely dimensional that could answer all the questions such as "who created god?" since it is infinitely dimensional it never was created, it has always been, and the specifics of that would obviously be infinitely above our human reasoning. But I just thought that that was a cool thought. I am not religious in any way, I just want to see what other people think about this.

Oh yeah this is my 100th post, congratulations to me.
Actually, refrencing to the 10 dimension theory, an all powerful god would only have to be in the 11th dimension. The tenth being all dimensions in one point, so the 11th would make him be able to alter all other dimensions that affect us as humans.

[Jgib5328]

Actually, refrencing to the 10 dimension theory, an all powerful god would only have to be in the 11th dimension. The tenth being all dimensions in one point, so the 11th would make him be able to alter all other dimensions that affect us as humans.

Yeah that is true then, I wasn't factoring in the 10 dimension theory. Well I guess Christians can make a good argument for the existence of god using this theory.

[DeadSpace]

1) Mimicry, something they saw and tried to copy, extra dimensional beings, aliens, something they saw and considered perfect/godlike. For a twist, check out ancient idols/art from different cultures O.o

2) Always possible, very dynamic system though, it does adapt...albeit at times at a snails pace. For a collapse...i think terms would have to be extended for all offices...allowing stagnation, inertia to set in.
The slower a government/society is to adapt increases it's chance of total collapse.

[Jgib5328]

Ok so I looked at the 10 dimension theory and it led me to the super sting theory, which made it possible to believe that there was 10 dimensions. The dimensions are formed from the string vibrating north, east, south, and west. The additional 6 dimensions are from the girth of the string or inside of the string, so these dimensions are incredibly tiny, so that may blow a hole in my god theory.





Jgib5328 added to this post, 26 minutes and 6 seconds later...

Never mind what I just said, god would indeed exist in the 11th dimension To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. this video gives an animated explanation of the 10 dimensions.





Jgib5328 added to this post, 41 minutes and 24 seconds later...

Ghosts could be 4d beings, and actually not be dead people but different beings completely. That'd make sense from people who say they saw ghosts describing them as transparent, maybe that's just because our 3d brains just can't comprehend what they truly look like. That'd also explain how ghosts could travel through physical objects since they can transcend space.

Wow this stuff is so cool.

[ssfanatic]

Ok so I looked at the 10 dimension theory and it led me to the super sting theory, which made it possible to believe that there was 10 dimensions. The dimensions are formed from the string vibrating north, east, south, and west. The additional 6 dimensions are from the girth of the string or inside of the string, so these dimensions are incredibly tiny, so that may blow a hole in my god theory.





Jgib5328 added to this post, 26 minutes and 6 seconds later...

Never mind what I just said, god would indeed exist in the 11th dimension To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. this video gives an animated explanation of the 10 dimensions.





Jgib5328 added to this post, 41 minutes and 24 seconds later...

Ghosts could be 4d beings, and actually not be dead people but different beings completely. That'd make sense from people who say they saw ghosts describing them as transparent, maybe that's just because our 3d brains just can't comprehend what they truly look like. That'd also explain how ghosts could travel through physical objects since they can transcend space.

Wow this stuff is so cool.
I completely agree! Ive watched that video several times, always thinking of different possibilities. Ive thought of the ghosts in 4D, they could also be though of as pure energy, then they could disperse and pass through things, just as condensed electricity can be seen, but yet pass through things. Just an idea, critique please.

[tf1]

Compute this:
How long have humans with modern brains been on the planet?
How long is our recorded history and implied modern history?

Riiiiiiiiight. Going paranormal is just like saying God created the work 6000 years ago. This is just stupid crutch for a stupid mind.

The truth is much more fascinating than any of us want it to be.

[Jgib5328]

Compute this:
How long have humans with modern brains been on the planet?
How long is our recorded history and implied modern history?

Riiiiiiiiight. Going paranormal is just like saying God created the work 6000 years ago. This is just stupid crutch for a stupid mind.

The truth is much more fascinating than any of us want it to be.

What? We aren't talking about anything paranormal. I was just saying, that if ghosts really existed, they wouldn't be dead people, but they'd be 4d beings something completely different. I never stated that God existed either, I said that if there was a God it'd be an 11d being.





Jgib5328 added to this post, 2 minutes and 25 seconds later...

I completely agree! Ive watched that video several times, always thinking of different possibilities. Ive thought of the ghosts in 4D, they could also be though of as pure energy, then they could disperse and pass through things, just as condensed electricity can be seen, but yet pass through things. Just an idea, critique please.

Do you mean that they could be 4d or be thought of as pure energy? Or both? Being pure energy is plausible too, because those supposed 'paranormal experts' get energy readings every time they are around 'ghosts'.

[Aoiluna]

How would ghosts being pure energy be fourth dimensional? I guess I just want to here a little bit more elaboration on your theory, im interested.

Of course this all depends on how you define "ghost"

[muguly]

I completely agree! Ive watched that video several times, always thinking of different possibilities. Ive thought of the ghosts in 4D, they could also be though of as pure energy, then they could disperse and pass through things, just as condensed electricity can be seen, but yet pass through things. Just an idea, critique please.
In theory you could be true. Energy never stops, it is transfered to another entity so the possibility of ghost being all energy is not far fetched. Interesting observation. :idea:





muguly added to this post, 4 minutes and 52 seconds later...

Good thought but no. The fourth deminsion is time travel. This video explains it all. Its very interesting.
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

And thinking outside the box is great, i do it all the time. Especially with physics, but all the ideas usually pertain to rational ideas. Im not seeing it with the first one.
Ok, but as you stated, the fourth dimension is time travel. Again, it is possible that someone/something traveled back in time to build monuments to future events. It's all about the possibilities.

[Jgib5328]

Wait a minute, if we subscribe to the 10d theory, does that mean that we have no free will and that it is just an illusion, since the beginning of time and the end of time already exist in the 5th dimension and all of the possibilities in our time line already exist in the 8th dimension, then all of the infinite amount of possibilities that exist in the infinite amount of universes have already occurred or have a probability to occur (9th dimension), so free will is just an illusion and everything that has happened, will happen, and has the possibility already exists and is already set in stone? But I guess it's not a big deal since there exists an infinite amount of possibilities in an infinite amount of universes, but that means that all of these infinite possibilities exist already so the time strain has always been and always will be and can never be different. But it'd obviously be impossible to be different, because the infinite outcomes covers everything that can happen. But still since this exists free will is just an illusion.

[ssfanatic]

Ok, im going to clear this up.
Ghosts in 4D and Energy ghosts are two separate ideas! Man, how can energy be 4D, we encounter in our every day world. And energy cant travel through time.





ssfanatic added to this post, 1 minutes and 25 seconds later...

Wait a minute, if we subscribe to the 10d theory, does that mean that we have no free will and that it is just an illusion, since the beginning of time and the end of time already exist in the 5th dimension and all of the possibilities in our time line already exist in the 8th dimension, then all of the infinite amount of possibilities that exist in the infinite amount of universes have already occurred or have a probability to occur (9th dimension), so free will is just an illusion and everything that has happened, will happen, and has the possibility already exists and is already set in stone? But I guess it's not a big deal since there exists an infinite amount of possibilities in an infinite amount of universes, but that means that all of these infinite possibilities exist already so the time strain has always been and always will be and can never be different. But it'd obviously be impossible to be different, because the infinite outcomes covers everything that can happen. But still since this exists free will is just an illusion.
Thats really good! Ive been looking for tangible proof of Calvinism and thats as close as i will get. Great thought.

[Jgib5328]

Ok, im going to clear this up.
Ghosts in 4D and Energy ghosts are two separate ideas! Man, how can energy be 4D, we encounter in our every day world. And energy cant travel through time.


Wouldn't a 4d being only be able to see back and forth in time, but not really travel? Isn't a 5d being only able to physical travel, because they'd be the ones who were capable of folding the 4d so they could instantly appear anywhere in time. Kinda like that example of us folding a 2d surface and allowing a flatlander to instantly appear at another point in the 2d. So that'd mean that 4d beings could see all of time (4d) like we see space (3d) and they'd be able to fold space so they could appear at any point in our world instantly, meaning they are capable of teleporting, but not really capable of traveling to any point in time because that is reserved for 5d beings an above, they are just capable of seeing all of time. It'd probably be the same as those aliens in the novel 'Slaughterhouse Five'.

[Caramel]

A four dimensional being would have its entire life span (like we know it) as one moment. So indeed, its not time travel, but since we experience time as progressive, one moment after another, in stead of one thing, it might seem that way to us. Might, cause I have no idea what such a 4th dimensional creature would look like to us.

[ssfanatic]

A four dimensional being would have its entire life span (like we know it) as one moment. So indeed, its not time travel, but since we experience time as progressive, one moment after another, in stead of one thing, it might seem that way to us. Might, cause I have no idea what such a 4th dimensional creature would look like to us.
never though of that. but it would probably be the same as us, their life would be measured by choices instead of time. For example, they would see the 5 dimension and travel through the fourth. So the 5 dimension, being different possible futures, would measure their lifespan, such as we measure our with just time bec that is the highest dimension we can conceive.

[Jgib5328]

never though of that. but it would probably be the same as us, their life would be measured by choices instead of time. For example, they would see the 5 dimension and travel through the fourth. So the 5 dimension, being different possible futures, would measure their lifespan, such as we measure our with just time bec that is the highest dimension we can conceive.

So would the 4d being just travel through all the choices in life without any manipulation of them? That'd make sense just like how we travel through time without any manipulation or control over it.

Would a human's mind explode in a higher dimension, since our 3d brains wouldn't be able to comprehend all of this new stimuli. Like we could never see time at one moment, our brains would never be able to register it, it's difficult even thinking about it.

How would a 5d being operate? Wouldn't it be able to see all possible outcomes and have control over them and would be able to change them? So it would basically go back and forth changing different outcomes and making new things occur in the time stream?

I was also thinking, would a 4d being see us as we see a 2d figure? If that were true, would that mean that a 4d being has control over us like we have control over the 2d and below?

[ssfanatic]

So would the 4d being just travel through all the choices in life without any manipulation of them? That'd make sense just like how we travel through time without any manipulation or control over it.

Would a human's mind explode in a higher dimension, since our 3d brains wouldn't be able to comprehend all of this new stimuli. Like we could never see time at one moment, our brains would never be able to register it, it's difficult even thinking about it.

How would a 5d being operate? Wouldn't it be able to see all possible outcomes and have control over them and would be able to change them? So it would basically go back and forth changing different outcomes and making new things occur in the time stream?

I was also thinking, would a 4d being see us as we see a 2d figure? If that were true, would that mean that a 4d being has control over us like we have control over the 2d and below?
I was just at church and i was thinking of this all through worship. Lets just assume that there are 4D figures, would they have a code of how not to disturb us?, or is there a 2D world lurking underneath us that we dont see and the 4D world cant see us either?

But onto your proposals...
Yes, same concept higher dimension.

I dont know about explode just overwhelmed, we probably couldnt even comprehend anything that was happening. Man we are so inferior its humbling.

5D figures can not manipulate events. They could manipulate the fourth (like us with 2D), they would move through one set of events in time and alter it while seeing all other options but not change their outcome (like us moving through 3D and cant control time yet move through it)
6D would be the one that could change events.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

O.K. for us dummies........if there are 'beings' in the second dimension, then could you explain how we manipulate these beings?

[ssfanatic]

Gosh man, dummies?, i find that pretty hard to believe.

But anyway...
We manipulate them by being able to travel around them, to be unseen to them, and yet still interact with them, yet subconsciously. Its kind of hard to explain. Have you ever read the book Flatland?

[vaguely dissatisfied]

Gosh man, dummies?, i find that pretty hard to believe.

But anyway...
We manipulate them by being able to travel around them, to be unseen to them, and yet still interact with them, yet subconsciously. Its kind of hard to explain. Have you ever read the book Flatland?
I have almost no knowledge of this subject, but am fasinated by it.

I have never read that book, but would you mind explaining......if we are unseen to them (2D people) and they are unseen to us (because we are only interacting with them subconsciously), then why do we say that we can manipulate them, but they can't manipulate us? I'm trying to wrap my head around it, but I keep thinking that if we are interacting at all then there has to be an effect on both parties.

[Rei]

I have a couple of thougts....possible theories that some might find interesting.
1) The Pyramids, Easter Island, etc.
What if people from another dimension placed those object there. Sound crazy but read me out: We can only percieve what our senses tell us. There are 3 dimensions that we can function in. Us being 3D objects can insert something into a lesser dimension. With that in mind, wouldn't is be possible that people from another dimension, a fourth or fifth, placed those things, or the technology, here for us to utilize?

Possibility.
But one question that must be answered is WHY.
Why should something in another dimension place things here for our benefit?
Perhaps they just placed them here for their entertainment?


What I wonder about are CROP CIRCLES.
Does anyone have a theory (if we don't consider aliens)?
And if that is the only explanation, why doesn't everyone believe in the existence of aliens?

[ssfanatic]

I have almost no knowledge of this subject, but am fasinated by it.

I have never read that book, but would you mind explaining......if we are unseen to them (2D people) and they are unseen to us (because we are only interacting with them subconsciously), then why do we say that we can manipulate them, but they can't manipulate us? I'm trying to wrap my head around it, but I keep thinking that if we are interacting at all then there has to be an effect on both parties.
I am speculating with the other people, its just a thought. Its the same concept with 4D beings, they could see and interact with us, but we could not hold or manipulate them bec we can not control time.
2D figures could not control 3D bec they can only move through a 2D world. We can not control time, they can not control cubes and speres, only certain layers of it, a single layer.

[Jgib5328]

I am speculating with the other people, its just a thought. Its the same concept with 4D beings, they could see and interact with us, but we could not hold or manipulate them bec we can not control time.
2D figures could not control 3D bec they can only move through a 2D world. We can not control time, they can not control cubes and speres, only certain layers of it, a single layer.

I don't think 2d beings are capable of survival in this universe. The properties of their dimension won't allow it. I don't mean our 3d world, I mean in the entire array of dimensions, it isn't possible for a 2d being to be alive even in it's own dimension. The 3d beings are the first dimensional beings capable of survival.

[muguly]

Possibility.
But one question that must be answered is WHY.
Why should something in another dimension place things here for our benefit?
Perhaps they just placed them here for their entertainment?


What I wonder about are CROP CIRCLES.
Does anyone have a theory (if we don't consider aliens)?
And if that is the only explanation, why doesn't everyone believe in the existence of aliens?

I think the same reason we put castles in our fish tanks, or light on a house during the holidays:decoration. Or maybe, they wanted to give us an example of what could be done if we forget all we know and try to build on unconventional ideas and equations.:thinking:

[vaguely dissatisfied]

I am speculating with the other people, its just a thought. Its the same concept with 4D beings, they could see and interact with us, but we could not hold or manipulate them bec we can not control time.
2D figures could not control 3D bec they can only move through a 2D world. We can not control time, they can not control cubes and speres, only certain layers of it, a single layer.
Yes but if 4D beings can see, interact with, and manipulate us, then shouldn't we be able to see, interact with, and manipulate 2D beings?





vaguely dissatisfied added to this post, 0 minutes and 57 seconds later...

I don't think 2d beings are capable of survival in this universe. The properties of their dimension won't allow it. I don't mean our 3d world, I mean in the entire array of dimensions, it isn't possible for a 2d being to be alive even in it's own dimension. The 3d beings are the first dimensional beings capable of survival.
Please elaborate.

[AgentofGaming]

What I wonder about are CROP CIRCLES.
Does anyone have a theory (if we don't consider aliens)?
And if that is the only explanation, why doesn't everyone believe in the existence of aliens?

I think I watched too many alien and crop circle documentaries when I was young.
1) They captured on video in some white balls that people see in England, when crop circles are formed.
They also mentioned something about energy streams producing elaborate patterns.
Oh and also there's the wooden plank and rope trick where guys walk around in circle. That's why most are fake and some are imitations of the unknown ones.

There are some unexplained ones:
The nazca lines (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)
-how someone could etch fractals (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) into fields with that accuracy? When computers are needed just to be able to visualize them.
I'd like to see the guys with the wooden planks make the crop circles that contained advanced geometric shapes and mathematical concepts overnight. To say some crop circles are like someone showing off their math concepts

OT) Another documentary on aliens they showed that a magnesium alloy when charged will hover.

2) Well there's the signal-to-noise ratio in communication. There have been too many hoaxes and so much hype, you don't know what's real and what's not. So since it doesn't affect the way we live life we just filter out everything.
Also there could be government coverups but... yeah... :rolleyes: too much conspiracy.
Lastly for some to believe they have to see it for themselves.

[Rei]

I think the same reason we put castles in our fish tanks, or light on a house during the holidays:decoration. Or maybe, they wanted to give us an example of what could be done if we forget all we know and try to build on unconventional ideas and equations.:thinking:
I guess you could say that. It's just that I wouldn't put castles in my fish tank unless I knew from study that they like having a place to hide. Even then, I'd go with plants.
But the thing is, this all implies that we are unconsciously pets of beings in another dimension... Like ants in an ant farm.

I think I watched too many alien and crop circle documentaries when I was young.
1) They captured on video in some white balls that people see in England, when crop circles are formed.
They also mentioned something about energy streams producing elaborate patterns.
Oh and also there's the wooden plank and rope trick where guys walk around in circle. That's why most are fake and some are imitations of the unknown ones.

There are some unexplained ones:
The nazca lines (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)
-how someone could etch fractals (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) into fields with that accuracy? When computers are needed just to be able to visualize them.
I'd like to see the guys with the wooden planks make the crop circles that contained advanced geometric shapes and mathematical concepts overnight. To say some crop circles are like someone showing off their math concepts

OT) Another documentary on aliens they showed that a magnesium alloy when charged will hover.

2) Well there's the signal-to-noise ratio in communication. There have been too many hoaxes and so much hype, you don't know what's real and what's not. So since it doesn't affect the way we live life we just filter out everything.
Also there could be government coverups but... yeah... :rolleyes: too much conspiracy.
Lastly for some to believe they have to see it for themselves.

I know about the plank and rope thing. But I was looking through a book I came across at the book store the other day (that's what brought this facination back), and some of these are such complicated patterns that I don't really see possible to do overnight. Just the co-ordination required to do something so large-scale and complex...

Energy streams are a definite possibility though, with the patterns diffracted waves could make.

*looks up magnesium alloy*

There's definitely too many hoaxes... but the thing is. There's such a huge possibility. It's not so much whether we believe, but whether we think it's possible. I think logically, everyone should think there's a possibility.

[ssfanatic]

Yes but if 4D beings can see, interact with, and manipulate us, then shouldn't we be able to see, interact with, and manipulate 2D beings?
.

Good point, like i said, i was just being speculative.

But i see how 2D figures could not survive. It all falls under irreducible complexity. Our cells can not be simplified, they are at their simplest stage, therefore, they could not survive if they had no depth. But then we have to say this to 4D figures, are their cells relatively similar to ours, or bec they move through time their bodies are held together with something other than the four natural forces?

Man this is getting out of hand ;D

[muguly]

But i see how 2D figures could not survive. It all falls under irreducible complexity. Our cells can not be simplified, they are at their simplest stage, therefore, they could not survive if they had no depth. But then we have to say this to 4D figures, are their cells relatively similar to ours, or bec they move through time their bodies are held together with something other than the four natural forces?

If you want to dive deeper into it, the possibility of being able to manipulate cells is not that far from reality. Atoms are made of mostly nothing but empty space. So, if a 4,5,6,7,8,9,10D being understood that and figured a way to tinker around with the subatomic make up of things it is quiet possible that they could manipulate whatever their hearts desired. Even time, which is always toted as being a constant, doesn't seem to exsist of the smallest scale of matter, so being able to change atoms and disregard time would make anything possible. :thumbsup:







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muguly added to this post, 5 minutes and 21 seconds later...

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[AgentofGaming]

I guess you could say that. It's just that I wouldn't put castles in my fish tank unless I knew from study that they like having a place to hide. Even then, I'd go with plants.
But the thing is, this all implies that we are unconsciously pets of beings in another dimension... Like ants in an ant farm.
If we were ants on ant farm... I don't want to be squished... or burned with a magnifying glass.
Universe within a universe within a universe is kind of like what they showed at the ending of Men In Black I. Although I don't think I have a galaxy in an amulet.


I know about the plank and rope thing. But I was looking through a book I came across at the book store the other day (that's what brought this facination back), and some of these are such complicated patterns that I don't really see possible to do overnight. Just the co-ordination required to do something so large-scale and complex...

Energy streams are a definite possibility though, with the patterns diffracted waves could make.

*looks up magnesium alloy*

There's definitely too many hoaxes... but the thing is. There's such a huge possibility. It's not so much whether we believe, but whether we think it's possible. I think logically, everyone should think there's a possibility.
Planck and rope crop circle makers only detract from the real ones.

The crop circle with the cubes within the cubes within the cubes was enough to distinguish those little circles that the phonies make. Of course if I had a funny imagination I'd see some high speed planckers joining forces with MIT mathematicians and GPS.

Energy is a good one since it "can" go in patterns. However it's a bit odd considering energy is rather chaotic, just look at the weather. Also why on a crop field? why not downtown on pavement or on arctic snow? Well actually having lived in Saskatchewan there is tons of farmland.
Well, me and howstuffworks have encountered again.
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So the energy one I was thinking about was Plasma Vortex Theory.
They also sight helicopters, wind, and Electromagnetic phenomenon.

This crop circle looks like someone has been watching the Matrix... (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)

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hmm...

I don't know if the magnesium alloy was a hoax or not ... it was so long ago when TLC actually had documentaries. The owner claims he salvaged it from a UFO wreck. It was in a plastic box and when they charged current through it it would be suspended. Although nowadays humans have magnetically levitated trains, so hovering isn't new anymore.

So was Robert Lazar and area 51 a hoax? They never seem to confirm or deny. There was also the aurora jet (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) being mistaken for the triangular UFO.

The universe is so huge, and so the possibility of other life forms is always a possibility. As they say "imagination is the only limit"

[muguly]

CHECK IT OUT, NOW!!!!!

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[vkut79]

Its an entertaining theory, but how can you guys actually take it seriously? What makes you think that you can actually "build up" higher dimensions by taking our existing three dimensions and repeating the same pattern as is evident in the first three (line - split - fold, repeat). I can think of no reason for why that would be the case. There's no such thing as the fourth dimension or higher of existence as far as we are concerned. Any speculation that there exists higher dimensions is meaningless, just like imagining that God created the universe. The construction of our mind ultimately defines what dimensions exist - and according to our mind there are three, and time is a separate thing (because time is not traversible). There's no substance to this kind of imagination.

[Jgib5328]

Please elaborate.

The properties of a 2d universe wouldn't allow for existence. They wouldn't be able to engage in the activities that warrant existence and survival. It's just the physics of the 2d universe.





Jgib5328 added to this post, 2 minutes and 39 seconds later...

Its an entertaining theory, but how can you guys actually take it seriously? What makes you think that you can actually "build up" higher dimensions by taking our existing three dimensions and repeating the same pattern as is evident in the first three (line - split - fold, repeat). I can think of no reason for why that would be the case. There's no such thing as the fourth dimension or higher of existence as far as we are concerned. Any speculation that there exists higher dimensions is meaningless, just like imagining that God created the universe. The construction of our mind ultimately defines what dimensions exist - and according to our mind there are three, and time is a separate thing (because time is not traversible). There's no substance to this kind of imagination.

He did a simplified explanation of the higher dimensions, I'm sure there is a lot more complex way of describing it.

There is a 4th dimension, we are living in it right now. It is called time.

I'm not sure if I really believe it, but it's fun to speculate.

[bck1990]

it may be possible though. search on youtube Dr Quantum visits flat land, or flatland, something like that. things that we do not have access to, like things inside a locked up box or closed sphere, can be accessible by people who can 'make use of' higher dimensions. think of it this way, things living in a 2D world can never enter a closed rectangle (probably somebody's locked up house) and place something in it, when we can simply place something from ABOVE.

too bad for them though, the word 'above' probably doesn't exist in their dictionary. from their view, it may appears as you teleporting into their house mysteriously, and when u move your hand up and awy from the house, to them you simply disappear!

read Michio Kaku's Hyperspace, it's about string theory and apparently he thinks that many puzzles in Physics can be solved easily if higher dimensions were added. he compared it to understanding the weather, in the past when people think of the Earth as flat, no one could understand anything about storms and why they occur and why winds seem to blow mostly in one direction and all that complicated stuff.

by travelling above and into space and viewing the Earth as spherical and rotating, everything suddenly becomes clear and easily solved. so adding another dimension simplifies problems instead of making things more complicated.

in Brian Greene's The Elegant Universe, he mentions that additional dimensions calculated from string theory's equations are curled up, not wide and spreaded out like our 3 dimensions, though i wonder just what it meant. of course its not a proven and verified theory...





bck1990 added to this post, 5 minutes and 19 seconds later...

but then again we are always picturing everything in terms of our three dimensions, and making analogies with the fact that we can manipulate the 2nd dimension, it may just turn out to unreal and that we cannot simple assume that we can build up dimensions.

[ssfanatic]

Im in the middle of a book titled Sphere by Michael Chrichton, and its making me think outside the box. I recommend it to everyone even though im not done. There is a definite INTJ in the book. The smartest one of course ;D

[Rei]

Im in the middle of a book titled Sphere by Michael Chrichton, and its making me think outside the box. I recommend it to everyone even though im not done. There is a definite INTJ in the book. The smartest one of course ;D

Is it the same as the movie?
If it is, it's very creepy/cool... and everyone should read it.

[Gabrielle]

I have a couple of thougts....possible theories that some might find interesting.
1) The Pyramids, Easter Island, etc.
What if people from another dimension placed those object there. Sound crazy but read me out: We can only percieve what our senses tell us. There are 3 dimensions that we can function in. Us being 3D objects can insert something into a lesser dimension. With that in mind, wouldn't is be possible that people from another dimension, a fourth or fifth, placed those things, or the technology, here for us to utilize?

2) The Rise and Fall of Civilizations
History has taught that once a civilization reaches its peak it begins to decline. I believe the U.S.A is heading in that direction. Already the U.S. dollar is weaker that ever, causing massive problems in the economy. And we all know, once the economic system of any civilization degrades, it's only a matter of time before everything else follows. There is no true leadership. The government agencies are just waisting money and time not fixing, or even addressing most major problems. The level of corruption in the government allows things to happen that should never be mentioned. Are we still the greatest nation in the world?

3)....there was a three but I can't remember so......

1. We are able to perceive the 4th dimension - in a square-form it will appear as a tesseract. Please refer to 1, 2, 3 Infinity for more details, as I am far too lazy to explain the theory.

2. WERE we ever the greatest nation in the world? And since when did we hit the peak? We can identify the peak after the entire decline is over.

[Blacklustre King]

That all depends on how adapted you are to experiencing a new dimension or reality. One person may breakdown were the one next to them might be fine or even enlightened.

It might be as simple as open-mindedness over closed mindedness, if one is close minded and strictly set in their beliefs such an experience would be devastating on their mind.

[md21017md]

Ok, how about another viewpoint. Insted of looking for some mystical explanation, think about this. We view radio as a normal part of our lives. We don't see it, can't touch it, radio waves have no shape or mass, but they do "exist". Two hundred, three hundred years ago, the concept of radio would have seemed magical/mystical or what ever. They idea to even look for it would have been beyond the people of that time. If our soceity today took a majot hit, and technologicly we reverted back to the middle ages to progress forward, we might discover an alternate means of communicating. To the people of this other timeline, our timeline and technology today might be just as mystical as easter island. Maybe we are making more (aliens, alternate dimensions etc.) out of what is just another technology man had knowledge of at one time but has since lost.





md21017md added to this post, 22 minutes and 2 seconds later...

As to the US, intersting topic. I read a book a few years ago titled "The comming collapse of America". It was a great book, the slant was based around what will happen to america with oil at $200 a barrel. At the time of press I think oil was $40, and the concept of even hitting $100 was seen as crazy, yet here we are.

The first part of the book was regarding the lifespan of a civilization. The authors take was that throughout mankind, the average age of a country is about 1000 years. However, he went on to say that if you take out the non technical cultrures , then the average age drops to around 300-400 years. His reasoning was that these old agriculture based cultures were fairly easy to maintain. So depending on when you consider the start date for the US? Would that be 1776? Or when the first settlements were made. There was just a 400 year celebration in the mid atlantic for what was considered the start of the US. By the authors claim, the US is at best in old age, and maybe we are seeing the effects.

I was having a recent discussion with a guy who was recanting a conspiricy theory that there is a purpose behind the curent US economic crisis, and the decline of the dollar. I listend quite skeptically, but his logic was that the goal was to get the US on the Euro. A week or two later, reading the NY times, I see an article on the fact that the dollar is being accepted less and less overseas. As I read the article, they recanted the fact that there are stores in NY city now accepting the Euro. So as far fetched as his theory was, maybe it's not too far off.

To the original question, is the US in decline? I think we are struggling with some major issues. The question will be can we rise above them. I think we are so used to a certain lifestyle, our culture and way of life are based on driving to get anywhere. The price of oil is going to have a major impact on our way of life and is going to have a snowball effect. Add to this the number of jobs sent overseas. We now import so much, everything from food to clothing. As the rest of the world, especially India and China compete more and more for these products the cost will rise. I think we are going to see the US driftmore to the way the rest of the world is - a few rich people, and a lot of poor with little in between. Depending on the lack of outside forces (terrorist attacks, economic boycotts), I do think we are seeing the decline of the US as an economic power. It might be another 50 or 100 years before we are no longer #1, but it's going to happen.

One only needs to look at how we got to be #1; a combination of economic output (manufacture of goods), production of ideas, both of which allowed for a large strong military. We have given the manufacture base away in the interest of short sited progress. Sure we now have $300 PC's and $99 TV's but we also have an entire class of jobs lost to this country. While some of those manufacture jobs have been replaced with higher paying jobs, some of the white collar jobs are being lost for the same short sited reasons. How long can this country send work overseas, allow foreigners to buy jobs and homes here, allow illegal immigrants to stay, and use our services and still be a viable world leader?

[elfece]

If you admit the possibility that n-dimensional being (with n>3) can place objects in our dimension, I assume that they carry them from their own, so pyramids and easter island statues were really much greater that they are here, but a lot of their greatness has been lost when "flatting" them to fit on our poor dimension:thumbsdown:

Does it means that one can be "expanded" in order to fit in that n-dimesion just like they can put their things here? maybe by some curious process a human being could be hijacked warped to a higher dimension

Also, I've read some theoretical physical model that accepts loads of dimensions, and says that many of them are "compressed", does anybody have an idea of what this could mean? Do i have to be Zipped, Rared or Aced in order to visit our ultra-dimensional partners?:idea:

[Serket]

If you take a photo of yourself is that you in 2 dimensions?
Are we really higher dimensional beings operating/controlling a 3D case?

[Rei]

If you take a photo of yourself is that you in 2 dimensions?
Are we really higher dimensional beings operating/controlling a 3D case?

A picture of oneself is merely an image of the person in two dimensions. You can't very well function in a two dimensional space.

[Jgib5328]

A picture of oneself is merely an image of the person in two dimensions. You can't very well function in a two dimensional space.

More like we can't function at all in 2d, we only have manipulation of us.

A picture is us in 2d form. Not actually us, but an image or copy of us.

[Rei]

More like we can't function at all in 2d, we only have manipulation of us.

A picture is us in 2d form. Not actually us, but an image or copy of us.

... That's exactly what I said...
Or at least that's what I meant... :blank:

[meanlittlechimp]

I have a couple of thougts....possible theories that some might find interesting.
1) The Pyramids, Easter Island, etc.
What if people from another dimension placed those object there. Sound crazy but read me out: We can only percieve what our senses tell us. There are 3 dimensions that we can function in. Us being 3D objects can insert something into a lesser dimension. With that in mind, wouldn't is be possible that people from another dimension, a fourth or fifth, placed those things, or the technology, here for us to utilize?

I think there is an overt Eurocentrism when some people talk about aliens or other worldly influences on the construction of the pyramids, Mayan astronomy and Easter Island. I doubt they would say the same if the the Greeks or a European civilization got credit for it. What is so baffling about building piles of stones (our pouring an early form of concrete as some theories claim) into one of the most simple geometric shapes, the pyramid.

Going to the moon, splitting the atom, and cloning seem like much better candidates for extra-terrestrial aid than piling up a bunch of rocks.

2) The Rise and Fall of Civilizations
History has taught that once a civilization reaches its peak it begins to decline. I believe the U.S.A is heading in that direction. Already the U.S. dollar is weaker that ever, causing massive problems in the economy. And we all know, once the economic system of any civilization degrades, it's only a matter of time before everything else follows. There is no true leadership. The government agencies are just waisting money and time not fixing, or even addressing most major problems. The level of corruption in the government allows things to happen that should never be mentioned. Are we still the greatest nation in the world?

Tis true, civilizations fall and rise. But I don't think you can necessarily ascribe that to the US. There are short term fluctuations that don't have to imply overall decline. Considering that US supremacy occurred after WWII, our reign as most powerful nation on earth hasn't even hit 100 years yet. The other civilizations you mentioned lasted much longer. But I do agree that US dominance is on a decline, but it has more do with the rebuilt economies of our competitors after the destruction of WWII, but most importantly the emergence of China and India as fully industrialized economies. The movement from rural areas to urban centers in the last few decades is the largest mass movement of humans in recorded history.

The Chinese civilization is a counterpoint to your example, since they've been around continuously (culturally and linguistically) for 5,000 years and counting. I do agree with your premise, however, that economic development is the most critical factor, by far, in the rise or fall of any civilization.

[searcher]

I have a little pet theory that in a four dimensional world, (rather than three like us) light would habitatually move in curved lines.
I thought this because, a two dimensional person would see things in one dimenstion, just like we see in two dimensions. Going on from this, a four dimensional person would see in three dimensions, ie, all sides of a thing at once, and to achieve this light would have to be curved.

Feel free to pick holes in this.

[ShaiGar]

I have a couple of thoughts....possible theories that some might find interesting.
1) The Pyramids, Easter Island, etc.
What if people from another dimension placed those object there. Sound crazy but read me out: We can only percieve what our senses tell us. There are 3 dimensions that we can function in. Us being 3D objects can insert something into a lesser dimension. With that in mind, wouldn't is be possible that people from another dimension, a fourth or fifth, placed those things, or the technology, here for us to utilize?
That's retarded thinking. The pyramids were built by microscopic ants.


2) The Rise and Fall of Civilizations
History has taught that once a civilization reaches its peak it begins to decline. I believe the U.S.A is heading in that direction. Already the U.S. dollar is weaker that ever, causing massive problems in the economy. And we all know, once the economic system of any civilization degrades, it's only a matter of time before everything else follows. There is no true leadership. The government agencies are just waisting money and time not fixing, or even addressing most major problems. The level of corruption in the government allows things to happen that should never be mentioned. Are we still the greatest nation in the world?
America is going to dwindle and then split into quite a few different nations, with the EU becoming the next Real Power. Africa is going to become a stable Continent under the dominion of Emperor Shai Gar of the Universe.

The US has not been the greatest nation on earth since Jefferson was emperor. There was a period under Emperor Norton that the USA was excellent. Since then it's all been downhill in terms of morals and economic validity. These days Cuba and The Netherlands rule the world.

3)....there was a three but I can't remember so......
That's because you're memory has been possessed by a 5th Dimensional Imp.

[acrossthefourthwall]

If you take a photo of yourself is that you in 2 dimensions?
Are we really higher dimensional beings operating/controlling a 3D case?
1. Nope. (Anyone else remember the bit in 'A Brief History of Time' with the theoretical neo-Flatlander standing upright that has to regurgitate its food after eating since it wouldn't be a continuous 2D form if it had a second, connected outlet?)

2. Interesting thought. If there really is a 'collective unconscious', I wouldn't be surprised if it were intimately linked to another dimension.

I have a little pet theory that in a four dimensional world, (rather than three like us) light would habitatually move in curved lines.
I thought this because, a two dimensional person would see things in one dimenstion, just like we see in two dimensions. Going on from this, a four dimensional person would see in three dimensions, ie, all sides of a thing at once, and to achieve this light would have to be curved.
Feel free to pick holes in this.

Come to think of light, the light would have to bounce off in four-dimensional "directions", or the 4D being wouldn't be able to see the third at all, right? We wouldn't be able to perceive Flatland from a three-dimensional point of view if its own sources of light only worked in two dimensions, because none of the light would travel up towards our vantage-point. (And introducing a three-dimensional source of light would really mess up Flatland. [Oh man. That would be the worst horror movie ever.])

[Monte314]

This is an interesting thread.

A distinction needs to be made between the "dimensions" physicists talk about, and the "dimensions" that mathematicians talk about. Mathematicians are often talking about the dimension of Euclidean spaces, while physicists are generally talking about the dimension of non-Euclidean spaces. There are significant differences here with respect to the kinds of questions being asked in this thread. Mixing the two will get you into trouble.

Without going into a long discourse, let me just point out that intuition about 0, 1, 2, and 3 dimensional space does extend to higher dimensional spaces if you do things carefully. But a lot of non-intuitive things happen, too. For example, If I move a two-dimensional plane into four dimensional space, I can tie a knot in it in such a way that it is still infinite in extent, but never passes through itself. In four-dimensional space I can draw a line that connects two points on opposite sides of a 2D plane without peircing the plane. In 4-space, a pair of distinct 2-dimensional planes can intersect in exactly 1 point (!), and in 4-space a line can pass through the center of a 3-D cube without passing through any other points in the cube. If I place a three-dimensional sphere in four-dimensional space, I can reach in and touch its center, WITHOUT PASSING THROUGH ITS SURFACE. If I walk around the 3-D sphere in 4-space, from most directions it appears, not spherical, but ellipsoidal. And from some directions, it will appear completely flat, like a line segment. And, in certin infinite-dimensional spaces, if you move a sphere around, its volume changes (even though its diamter and shape do not). This is the Tarski-Banach Paradox.

I have done a lot of development in high-dimensional spaces, because it's central to my research. One of the coolest things we've done is develop an N-Dimensional visualizer that allows us to display data in up to 10-dimensions, and fly-around and through it as though your were in an airlplane (we call it "coptering"). Last month, I started making ray-traced color movies (you know, like they did in "Toy Story") in high-dimensional spaces for my next paper. How cool is that? I've two other visualizers, one of which can produce color visualization of data sets having up to 100 dimensions.

Last year, we worked on a problem that was embedded in a space having 70,000 dimensions. Now THAT was a challenge.

These are fascinating ideas, giving rise to many interesting questions.

(Note: the avatar you see at the left was snipped from a single frame of a movie showing what you would see lloking at an infinite number of neural networks on the surface of a sphere in 252-dimensional space, as you flew toward its center!)

[Terian]

A distinction needs to be made between the "dimensions" physicists talk about, and the "dimensions" that mathematicians talk about. Mathematicians are often talking about the dimension of Euclidean spaces, while physicists are generally talking about the dimension of non-Euclidean spaces. There are significant differences here with respect to the kinds of questions being asked in this thread. Mixing the two will get you into trouble.

Without going into a long discourse, let me just

These are very fascinating and abstract concepts. The idea that you can reach in and touch the center of a 3-D sphere in 4-D space without passing through its surface makes perfect sense to me. If I were to draw a circle on a 2-D plane in 3-D space (like a piece of paper), I could touch its center without passing through its edges.

[Monte314]

Yes, sir, you are exactly correct! Your deep insight here shows that analogy properly extended does bear fruit.

In the same way, if I hold a circular coin face on, this two-dimensional object appear circular. But as I turn it, it becomes elliptical, and when edge on, looks flat. The same thing happens to 3-spheres in 4-space.

[Terian]

Yes, sir, you are exactly correct! Your deep insight here shows that analogy properly extended does bear fruit.

In the same way, if I hold a circular coin face on, this two-dimensional object appear circular. But as I turn it, it becomes elliptical, and when edge on, looks flat. The same thing happens to 3-spheres in 4-space.
I'd assume that the same could be applied to a 3-D cube in 4-space, but the extent of the elongation would be at which angle you position the cube.

Considerations like these bring a smile to my face. It's just fascinating.

[Monte314]

Terian--

You are quite right.

When I built my first software application for visualizing high-dimensional objects over 25 years ago, I wanted as my first demonstration to view something that would have structure I would be able to recognize no matter how the embedding might condition it. What would you choose? A sphere is too simple, a cube kind of hard to code up. I chose a spiral.

I embedded a spiral in five-dimensional space, and made mathematically sure that it had extension in all five spatial dimensions. When I got the data loaded and I was ready to produce the graphic display, something weird happened...

... I was actually afraid to look at it.

No kidding. I was about to look at something no one had ever seen before, I didn't know what would appear, and it kind of freaked me out.

So, what happened? I peeked.

And, I saw a spiral. As I moved around it in 5-space, it stretched, opened, and closed in ways I didn't expect, but which made sense when I did some analysis by hand on paper.

Then I did spheres, and cubes, and intersections of various things... it was a feeding frenzy.

Over the years, I have enhanced this capability to the point where I can read in an EXCEL spreadsheet having many columns, and immediately view the data in scores of dimensions, colorized in various ways. Most recently, I started making movies of what it looks like to fly around these things. I've also done some stereo presentations that use colorized glasses (like the 3d movie things) that give depth to the on-screen depictions.

My company funds this research because our core business is pattern processing, data mining, and machine intelligence. The algorithms have never been published, nor are they likely to be. The ability to fly through complex data sets to gain an immediate, intuitive understanding of why a particular problem is "hard" gives us an enormous edge over our competition in doing this kind of work.

[Linza]

Monte is officially my freakin' hero. Seriously.

[Monte314]

Careful now. Applause keeps me awake.

[Beery Swine]

2) The Rise and Fall of Civilizations
History has taught that once a civilization reaches its peak it begins to decline.

I'm sorry, but would you expect a civilization to reach its peak and then improve?

[Bioplasmoid]

Thanks for the following link whoever posted it. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I owe you one, as im getting high from laughter and smiles. I dont need a tv anymore with quality links like these!

So Jaron Lanier, is into sacred geometry now? I thought his thing was strictly VR. Wonders never cease.