Weirdest moment from other personality types

[MichaelH]

As INTJs, we see things in a fundamentally different way than about 97% of the rest of the world. I'm curious what others would consider their most odd/surreal moment in interacting with other types.

Mine would have to be a discussion I had with my ESFP spouse. He's usually wonderful, but sometimes bizarre. In this case, he let me know that it made him angry when I'd empty the dishwasher in the morning.

No, that's not a typo. Me...emptying the dishwasher...made him angry.

Who else has moments like this?

[Hdier]

Well, that seems fairly reasonable to me, given the correct circumstances.

The weirdest moment *pauses to consider* would have to be when a random stranger in school tried to be my friend. When I looked at her as if she was totally and absolutely insane and then ignored her, she got the hint.

[ssfanatic]

Man, i need to narrow it down to one :(...
Ill go with the dish washer also.

So when my mom gives me something that needs to be done i say ok, and usually return to what i am doing. I look at everything like there is a deadline, so i just need to finish the task before the deadline and im okay right? WRONG. My mom gets furious when i do the dishwasher 5 minutes before we leave the house. But why? Im getting it done in time! She says that i put my own desires before my chores, but who cares, i get it done.

But i cant change her, all i can do is submit. O well.

[Antares]

My maid... mopping around on the floor when I'm concentrating... Makes me VERY angry, and she was just doing her job... I have my irrational moements as much as anyone else ;)

[marshall17]

wow..

My ex crying over a summer sausage and cheese gift pack I gave him for Christmas...it took everything I had not to laugh. I think the wine got to him...





marshall17 added to this post, 422 minutes and 23 seconds later...

.........forgot to mention, he is an ENFP

[Caramel]

A ESFJ co-worker of mine was all offended when a PhD student didn't give her a thesis. There simply weren't enough prints made, so he logically divided the prints over the research groups (two books per group).

She started whining, bitching and shouting about how she thought it was unfair that SHE didn't get a book. (Forgetting the fact that noone personally got a book because there weren't enough prints.) Then she decided she wouldn't go to his thesis 'defence' and party afterwards, cause 'he's a jerk who doens't consider other peoples feelings'.

I had to bite my tongue to keep me from bursting into laughter.

EDIT: Spelling.

[More Tea]

One of my weird experiences with other types happened this Thanksgiving with my ESFJ mother-in-law. We were hosting at our place and most of the cooking was to be on me. My mother-in-law calls the day before Thanksgiving saying that it is "imperative" that we use the family silver. No request, no explanation. I told her, quite plainly, that I had enough going on with planning the courses, that I had no idea where the silver was, and that--even if I did--it no doubt needed to be cleaned by now. She hung up on me in a huff.

Now if she has just *asked politely* and given a coherent reason *why* we were supposed to use the silver, extra holiday stress could have been avoided. I re-read the ESFJ profile and her actions started to make more "sense"... if you live in some sort of extrovert, emotional la-la world. :P

[MichaelH]

I re-read the ESFJ profile and her actions started to make more "sense"... if you live in some sort of extrovert, emotional la-la world.

My personal ESFP does this sometimes. Occasional, random things just HAVE to be a certain way. He can't justify it, there's no reasoning behind it, it just...is. These decisions are usually quite sudden and irrational. When people come up with off-the-wall stuff and insist it HAS to be done this way, it's hard to stay quiet, but I try to pick my battles.

In the case of More Tea's mother-in-law, in her view, the holiday would be ruined if the family silver wasn't used. There's no truth to that view, of course. I'm sure the holiday survived just fine...

[Ace1337]

Man, i need to narrow it down to one :(...
Ill go with the dish washer also.

So when my mom gives me something that needs to be done i say ok, and usually return to what i am doing. I look at everything like there is a deadline, so i just need to finish the task before the deadline and im okay right? WRONG. My mom gets furious when i do the dishwasher 5 minutes before we leave the house. But why? Im getting it done in time! She says that i put my own desires before my chores, but who cares, i get it done.

But i cant change her, all i can do is submit. O well.
I do the same thing. My dad always gets pissed off because I put off everything to the last moment, but I think that everything is OK if I do it on time, its not important if I do it 1 minute to the deadline or 5 hours to deadline, its done before the deadline.

[Caramel]

I do the same thing. My dad always gets pissed off because I put off everything to the last moment, but I think that everything is OK if I do it on time, its not important if I do it 1 minute to the deadline or 5 hours to deadline, its done before the deadline.

I agree with this. If parents want you to do something *now*, then they should say that they want it done *now*. Not 'when I get back' or 'before dinner'. :thinking:

[MichaelH]

I do the same thing. My dad always gets pissed off because I put off everything to the last moment, but I think that everything is OK if I do it on time, its not important if I do it 1 minute to the deadline or 5 hours to deadline, its done before the deadline.

I've found it does make life easier if you can work further ahead, and this may be what your parents are trying to teach you. I'm not saying their methods are correct, I'm just trying to explain their behavior.

Having said that, you're up to the INTJ standard of 100% correct. Life rewards you for getting things done before the deadline, and it's totally up to you how you schedule making that happen. Last-minute pressure is absolutely a motivator, and it's probable you have other things you want to take care of before the scheduled task.

My parents spent a lot of time trying to make me do things their way; that was a futile effort. I appreciate their attempts more now, but the fact is, trying to force an INTJ to do things someone else's way will fail. So long as you're getting stuff done, good for you, keep following your own direction!

[Headstrong]

Man, i need to narrow it down to one :(...
Ill go with the dish washer also.

So when my mom gives me something that needs to be done i say ok, and usually return to what i am doing. I look at everything like there is a deadline, so i just need to finish the task before the deadline and im okay right? WRONG. My mom gets furious when i do the dishwasher 5 minutes before we leave the house. But why? Im getting it done in time! She says that i put my own desires before my chores, but who cares, i get it done.

But i cant change her, all i can do is submit. O well.

I do the exact same thing and have the exact same argument. She doesn't get it either.

[ssfanatic]

I do the exact same thing and have the exact same argument. She doesn't get it either.

IM NOT ALONE! the feeling is incredible. Its like ive been arguing against a brick wall that suddenly fell away and revealed a paradise...
no, not really, but it is reassuring :thumbsup:

Now that i re-read that, man i need to try to become a Romanticist writer, i can fake it pretty well :cool:

[Bear Warp]

I haven't had any weird moments, but I have been asked if I was gay plenty of times throughout high school. The people who ask that just cannot understand how a teenage male could live without having a girlfriend, or why a person would read a book, or be alone on purpose or, my GOD, think for more than 10 seconds at a time! Silly meatheads.....

[Headstrong]

IM NOT ALONE! the feeling is incredible. Its like ive been arguing against a brick wall that suddenly fell away and revealed a paradise...
no, not really, but it is reassuring :thumbsup:

Now that i re-read that, man i need to try to become a Romanticist writer, i can fake it pretty well :cool:

*GASP!* (There are no icons available for some reason?) Get back in the closet...



As for the other people mentioning sexuality, I've been questioned about being gay, but more so asexual. I brought two friends on a camping trip last summer and the one turns to me and says, "I'm being serious here. Have you ever considered the fact that maybe you're...asexual?" If I had been eating anything, I probably would have choked on it. I like guys, thank you very much. *Humpfs while crossing arms* (Once again, no icons at my disposal.)

[Hdier]

I haven't had any weird moments, but I have been asked if I was gay plenty of times throughout high school. The people who ask that just cannot understand how a teenage male could live without having a girlfriend, or why a person would read a book, or be alone on purpose or, my GOD, think for more than 10 seconds at a time! Silly meatheads.....

Was this questioning by friends, acquaintance's, or just people you knew? Or none of the above?

I am not sure how I would react to this kind of questioning, but I would not be happy, that's for sure. Perhaps I would curl myself up into a metaphorical ball, and totally isolate myself from everyone, mentally when not physically.

[Caramel]

I haven't had any weird moments, but I have been asked if I was gay plenty of times throughout high school. The people who ask that just cannot understand how a teenage male could live without having a girlfriend, or why a person would read a book, or be alone on purpose or, my GOD, think for more than 10 seconds at a time! Silly meatheads.....

Nice. Do they even try to understand you?

My parents used to think I was a lesbian for the same reasons you listed. (Not that there is anything wrong with being gay, but it is just irritating how other people can project their own image of the world on you.)

[Richard0612]

I haven't had any weird moments, but I have been asked if I was gay plenty of times throughout high school. The people who ask that just cannot understand how a teenage male could live without having a girlfriend, or why a person would read a book, or be alone on purpose or, my GOD, think for more than 10 seconds at a time! Silly meatheads.....

I have had similar experiences at my secondary school. People ask me:

Why are you always alone, do you like it?
Yes, I have time to think
Thinking about what? [and the conversation goes on like this until I get bored and walk away, or I tell them that I am thinking about antimatter annihilation and their brains implode!]

or, the real morons say:
Do you want to be my frieeennndd?
This is said in a really droning, condescending tone to the point that there is no possibility of me taking them seriously.

[ssfanatic]

*GASP!* (There are no icons available for some reason?) Get back in the closet...


I SAID IT WAS FAKING IT! :angry:
Ha ha, how could i compare myself with a hippie, irrational, emotional fairy? Man thank God im an INTJ :thumbsup:





ssfanatic added to this post, 3 minutes and 55 seconds later...

I haven't had any weird moments, but I have been asked if I was gay plenty of times throughout high school. The people who ask that just cannot understand how a teenage male could live without having a girlfriend, or why a person would read a book, or be alone on purpose or, my GOD, think for more than 10 seconds at a time! Silly meatheads.....
I have the same problems.
Hey Eric, why you readin' dat' book?
Ummm, because i enjoy it...
And on the girlfriend thing, i just dont think anyone could deal with me enough to be my girlfriend. Plus it seams the older i get the more introverted im getting.
But i can honestly say i like it when people mock me bec i said something above them, it just reassures me that im accomplishing my goals, it keeps my standards in perspective.

[Headstrong]

I SAID IT WAS FAKING IT! :angry:

Bwahahaha. That's what they all say. ;-) Even me...

[deicruxified]

mine... hahaha i'm a trickster...and i'm good at it... because most of the time, people think i'm a very serious person... serious and good enough to be a reliable source of information.

in an unusually perky manner, i shrieked like a cheerleader and yelled at my esfp friend, "hey <--a famous college mvp player--> is at room m318!! "really?!?! oh my gosh" she replied and in haste, dabbed some foundation then blush then lipstick and dashed outside the classroom. after minutes of exploring the third floor, she came back... shocked to see no mvp but us... then i said, "hahaha this is room m318!!"

[ginandsour]

I had an argument with my mother over something to do with politics. She argued that her experience and feeling about the topic made her right. I told her that solid data I had was in direct opposition.

She said, "I don't care about your empiricism. How I feel is the truth."

I must have stared at her for so long that she then asked me what the "fuck my problem was."

I have no idea what type my family members are. I am guessing Mom is an E of some sort.

[Thistle]

wow..
My ex crying over a summer sausage and cheese gift pack I gave him for Christmas...it took everything I had not to laugh. I think the wine got to him...

I giggled at this!

I recall clashing with a guy who was in my MBA class who was clearly an 's'. We were discussing a fairly simple matrix which can be used to assess the power that stakeholders have. The matrix wasn't particularly challenging and we both saw and agreed the merits and drawbacks to it's use. I went one step further and suggested that it could be a useful tool to promote thought on changing the power that stakeholders have - either by reducing or enhancing it so that the firm could benefit. This normally clever guy couldn't get the logic in it - he was so boxed up. A heated debate eschewed with other members of the class which cumulated in another student telling him he was naive.

Strangely, I was very detached from the heated debate which my comment had started - it wasn't of interest to me (I knew I was right) and my mind started filtering away at the next two or three steps of analysis.

It's exhausing being an intj!

[Paul V]

Whenever I get what I want after a lot of frustration and effort, I usually subconsciously let out a very ESFPish "YAY!", which I find really embarrassing afterwards.

[mind_wander]

I SAID IT WAS FAKING IT! :angry:
Ha ha, how could i compare myself with a hippie, irrational, emotional fairy? Man thank God im an INTJ :thumbsup:





ssfanatic added to this post, 3 minutes and 55 seconds later...


I have the same problems.
Hey Eric, why you readin' dat' book?
Ummm, because i enjoy it...
And on the girlfriend thing, i just dont think anyone could deal with me enough to be my girlfriend. Plus it seams the older i get the more introverted im getting.
But i can honestly say i like it when people mock me bec i said something above them, it just reassures me that im accomplishing my goals, it keeps my standards in perspective.

Might as well, go and find an female INTJ, there you go. She will managed to deal with your habits, lol. Too bad, they are not always there, close by. If you do, hey, then you're lucky.

[youngblooded]

I've been asked and labelled an "emo" by most people. They are always going like "why are you so quiet" or " are you okay"? An "emo" is a person who has alot of emotional problems and tends to look sad while being quiet. I'm quiet most of the time because I don't really feel the need to say anything. Apparantly, this is thought by many to being emotional. Personally, I think they are kind of stupid. Have they ever thought that being quiet simply means we do not wish to say anything. And when I explain it to them, most will still be wondering. Plus, the irony is that I'm mistaken for a person with emotional problems when I'm an INTJ.

[pavman]

I've been asked and labelled an "emo" by most people. They are always going like "why are you so quiet" or " are you okay"? An "emo" is a person who has alot of emotional problems and tends to look sad while being quiet. I'm quiet most of the time because I don't really feel the need to say anything. Apparantly, this is thought by many to being emotional. Personally, I think they are kind of stupid. Have they ever thought that being quiet simply means we do not wish to say anything. And when I explain it to them, most will still be wondering. Plus, the irony is that I'm mistaken for a person with emotional problems when I'm an INTJ.

Sounds like emotional problems to me. I mean, an INT what? Sheesh, go see a shrink, ya psycho-freak! Better yet, check out that thread over there about crazies...

:o)

Ironically, I used to be very very quiet. I still have some family members who think I'll go psycho someday. Over time, I've learned to emulate more of a social response to fit in a little better and branch out/network with folks. It can be overcome if we want to overcome it, but its not necessarily a strength (and, for me, social situations are quite taxing on my energy levels).

And yet, social situations also energize me as well..so its hard to put into words... here, let me break into song...

What I would do is this...especially if they're just acquaintances [what kind of friend would imply this is beyond me]... play with them. Act like everything's fine, then occasionally flip out for no apparent reason... that's what I would do... you know, just to mess with their heads. :o) But then, I'm evil and manipulative.

[AgentofGaming]

I haven't been called emo, even though my little brother's friends use the term at each other a lot. When his friends come over to my house I'm like a human with no emotion to them and could care less what they do, so I couldn't be an emo.

I am quiet though, lots of people tell me "you sure are the quiet one".
Sometimes my grandpa exclaims "he just doesn't talk! the least you could do is reply!".
I don't think yelling okay is a necessary response for me to goto dinner.

[blueeyedsusan]

Weirdest moment from other personality type? try being a female INTJ around gossipy stupid females. It isn't fun.

[Firelie]

Weirdest moment from other personality type? try being a female INTJ around gossipy stupid females. It isn't fun.

It is if the gossipy stupid females look up to you and take your word as fact. Bwahahahahaha!

[Kotetsu]

I've had a lot of uncomfortable moments in life caused because I couldn't come with any reason whatsoever to explain someone else's actions. I think this has to be the worst:

A couple of years ago I had to work with this girl who would flirt outrageously with me (and most boys). She would be an ESFT (strong E, F and T, weak S). I felt really uncomfortable around her because it seemed like such an odd thing to do, and it was really embarrassing.

[Caramel]

Weirdest moment from other personality type? try being a female INTJ around gossipy stupid females. It isn't fun.

So avoid them like the plague! ;)

Or feed them a line of bull, like Firelie suggested.

Or use them to spread a nasty rumour about someone you don't like? You can even have them spread rumours among themselves, breaking the entire group up lol =)

[coffeeloverfreak]

Weirdest moment from other personality type? try being a female INTJ around gossipy stupid females. It isn't fun.

Agreed. In high school especially, I always thought I was abnormal because I couldn't get into the giggly gossip. I would observe it as though watching an anthropological experiment, as in, what is *wrong* with these people?

Luckily I grew past that phase and realized there are plenty of people in the world who are interested in more than just gossip. I still encounter those types, though, and I find them really hard to take. Like, ohmigod! :laugh:

[deicruxified]

I had an argument with my mother over something to do with politics. She argued that her experience and feeling about the topic made her right. I told her that solid data I had was in direct opposition.

She said, "I don't care about your empiricism. How I feel is the truth."

I must have stared at her for so long that she then asked me what the "fuck my problem was."

I have no idea what type my family members are. I am guessing Mom is an E of some sort.

being the nt that i am, i had a debate with my literature prof regarding the recent survey that was released by the student council. the topic was, "given the situation of the country right now, who would you think would be the rightful president to rule the country." 80% of the whole college community (including the foreign students) voted for 70's dictator, ferdinand marcos. so our literature prof ranted and cited examples of the tortures that have been happening during that time and he was crying for freedom (damn... i can't forget this day when i was supposed to learn from literature but there was a dramatic monologue)... and since i'm a wu ti fan and machiavellian, i responded, "the suffering of one is nothing compared to to the suffering of many... the bigger picture was for him to unite the country under one rule and look at the country before... today is trash thanks to the 'people's concept of freedom'" then she responded. "you are so heartless!" then she goes "why go for the bigger picture when all that matters is the details.."

bull

definitely, an sf... she's one of the most celebrated writers here... ecchhh...

[elsdfr]

As INTJs, we see things in a fundamentally different way than about 97% of the rest of the world. I'm curious what others would consider their most odd/surreal moment in interacting with other types.

Mine would have to be a discussion I had with my ESFP spouse. He's usually wonderful, but sometimes bizarre. In this case, he let me know that it made him angry when I'd empty the dishwasher in the morning.

No, that's not a typo. Me...emptying the dishwasher...made him angry.

Who else has moments like this?

I've been living for a ESFP female for a few months and in that time I've become less curious about who she speaks to on the phone. Then once my Mother called me and asked the usual and then she asked to speak to my GF. Turns out (after their 40min conversation) it wasn't the first time. Apparently they been talking weekly and shes pretty much divulged my entire secret INTJ life to my Mum (she was so happy). I don't think it was intentional though, my mum would have asked and I don't think an ESFP and pass on a up a chat. Personally I usually just stick to basics. Anyway, at the time I was so shocked (inside) and felt kinda betrayed but really there's nothing to worry about, it was just unexpected on my part. Plus my Mum has a new friend it seems. Just heaven help me if I stuff this one up :rolleyes:. But yeah, it was weird and still is a bit.

I don't think ESFPs understand compartmentalisation.

[coffeeloverfreak]

being the nt that i am, i had a debate with my literature prof regarding the recent survey that was released by the student council. the topic was, "given the situation of the country right now, who would you think would be the rightful president to rule the country." 80% of the whole college community (including the foreign students) voted for 70's dictator, ferdinand marcos. so our literature prof ranted and cited examples of the tortures that have been happening during that time and he was crying for freedom (damn... i can't forget this day when i was supposed to learn from literature but there was a dramatic monologue)... and since i'm a wu ti fan and machiavellian, i responded, "the suffering of one is nothing compared to to the suffering of many... the bigger picture was for him to unite the country under one rule and look at the country before... today is trash thanks to the 'people's concept of freedom'" then she responded. "you are so heartless!" then she goes "why go for the bigger picture when all that matters is the details.."

bull

definitely, an sf... she's one of the most celebrated writers here... ecchhh...

See, maybe that's where I differ from the INTJ typing, because I don't see the "ends justify the means" as a valid argument at all for dictatorship, atrocities, etc. etc.

Maybe it's the S side of me that sees things like this in terms of a moral code of right and wrong. Maybe it's my seemingly low Fi popping up telling me it's there after all. Or maybe it just stems from growing up Jewish and all that Holocaust education. Whatever the case, I would tend to side with your prof on that one.

[boothinator]

CoffeeLoverFreak, I'm a confirmed INTJ, and yet I know I'm heavily influenced by my mom, an INFP (think Martin Luther King Jr.), and my dad, an ISFJ (uggg, he won't open up to me for any reason). I think that because of my mom, I can go on for hours talking about science and technology and philosophy. In fact, I was at a job fair recently, and my main strategy was to talk up the techies about the interesting features of computer technologies. But I was so exhausted afterwards, and it sucks being repetitive. To some degree, my dad has bashed into my head a lot of moralistic feelings, frequently interfering with my self-confidence. And he would never tell me what the point of what he did was. He just not capable. I think my INFJ girlfriend is setting me right, though.

[Lucid]

I'm taking a metaphysics class this semester. As in philosophical metaphysics, not the crap on the "metaphysics" shelf in the book store.
Today we were discussing Lewis' views on possible worlds. Basically, Lewis absolutely believes that other possible worlds exist (in which things are different somehow) in an infinite number, but the possible differences between these possible worlds and ours is limited by what is logically possible. For example, there could not be a possible world in which I was simultaneously a member of this forum and not a member of this forum.
Several people in the class thought that the existence of an infinite number of worlds necessarily meant that even the logically impossible had to exist in some of them (which just means they don't understand logic). When I pointed out to one of them that he was misunderstanding the term infinity he got mad and threw his pen around in a huff.
As if that weren't weird enough, some hippy girl started making the argument for subjective reality without any objective element at all.
Her: "But if I think that ghosts exist then to me, they do."
Me: "Yes, but if you think that and they don't exist then you're wrong."
Her: "But I wouldn't think I was wrong so that would be my reality."
Me: "Yes. But your reality would be wrong. You can't both believe something and think that you're wrong about it."
Her: "But how can anyone else understand what my internal reality is?"
Me: "We can't. But that has nothing to do with objective reality. When someone's subjective beliefs about reality do not coincide with actual reality, the term we use in English is that they are wrong."
Her: "But all realities are valid."
Me: "I'm sorry, but to follow your logic here, my belief that reality is objective is just as valid as your belief that reality is subjective. If you believe that, then I don't understand why we're having this discussion. If you don't believe that, then you're contradicting yourself and I don't understand why we're having this discussion."

She stared at me like I'd suddenly vomited forth scorpions onto my desk. I don't know what her type is, but she's obviously not very familiar with logic.

[Vivid]

Oh, I got one!

I was in the car with my mom ( INFJ ) and grandma ( ESTJ ). My grandma was driving. One of her clients has a horse and she decided she wanted to see it. When we stopped, we had a brief exchange of opinions that, I thought, were amusing when considering our types.

INTJ: Why are we stopping? It's raining and muddy. Don't we know what horses look like?
ESTJ: Yeah, but I'd really enjoy seeing the horse.
INTJ: I'd be happy just thinking about the horse.
ESTJ: -gets out of car- What about you, Shari? Do you want to see the horse?
INFJ: No thank you. I don't want to meet the horse unless I can bond with it.

[coffeeloverfreak]

As if that weren't weird enough, some hippy girl started making the argument for subjective reality without any objective element at all.
Her: "But if I think that ghosts exist then to me, they do."
Me: "Yes, but if you think that and they don't exist then you're wrong."
Her: "But I wouldn't think I was wrong so that would be my reality."
Me: "Yes. But your reality would be wrong. You can't both believe something and think that you're wrong about it."
Her: "But how can anyone else understand what my internal reality is?"
Me: "We can't. But that has nothing to do with objective reality. When someone's subjective beliefs about reality do not coincide with actual reality, the term we use in English is that they are wrong."
Her: "But all realities are valid."
Me: "I'm sorry, but to follow your logic here, my belief that reality is objective is just as valid as your belief that reality is subjective. If you believe that, then I don't understand why we're having this discussion. If you don't believe that, then you're contradicting yourself and I don't understand why we're having this discussion."

She stared at me like I'd suddenly vomited forth scorpions onto my desk. I don't know what her type is, but she's obviously not very familiar with logic.

Well this is a valid metaphysical debate. Does reality exist objectively, or do we need an interpreter in the form of our brain or senses for it to exist? The "if a tree falls in the forest" debate started somewhere, you know. And more than likely, that somewhere was a philosophy course.

There are good arguments for the subjectivism of reality. The best one, IMHO, is the one about colour. Suppose you were looking at a white light. You see it's white. Everyone sees it's white. Therefore, it's white.

Now suppose everyone in the world was (unknowingly) wearing blue-tinted glasses, and you were (also unknowingly) wearing red-tinted glasses. Let's say there was no human being on earth who was wearing no glasses. Everyone would therefore conclude that the light is blue. And your persistent claims that it was red would lead you to be labelled colour-blind, crazy, or just plain wrong.

The question comes from whether reality exists entirely within the object, entirely within the subject, or at the point where the object meets/interacts with the subject. There are a lot of arguments for each of these positions.

[Lucid]

Well this is a valid metaphysical debate. Does reality exist objectively, or do we need an interpreter in the form of our brain or senses for it to exist? The "if a tree falls in the forest" debate started somewhere, you know. And more than likely, that somewhere was a philosophy course.

There are good arguments for the subjectivism of reality. The best one, IMHO, is the one about colour. Suppose you were looking at a white light. You see it's white. Everyone sees it's white. Therefore, it's white.

Now suppose everyone in the world was (unknowingly) wearing blue-tinted glasses, and you were (also unknowingly) wearing red-tinted glasses. Let's say there was no human being on earth who was wearing no glasses. Everyone would therefore conclude that the light is blue. And your persistent claims that it was red would lead you to be labelled colour-blind, crazy, or just plain wrong.

The question comes from whether reality exists entirely within the object, entirely within the subject, or at the point where the object meets/interacts with the subject. There are a lot of arguments for each of these positions.

I'm sorry, but it seems you're misunderstanding quite a bit about both the class and the discussion which took place. It seems like you're trying to use this girl's lack of forethought and failure to examine her position in detail before she opened her mouth in a class full of philosophy majors, minors and people who actually know what they're talking about, as a way to launch a similar, but ultimately divergent conversation about subjective reality vs. objective reality. How much of each there is in our every day perception of the world is certainly a valid discussion, but it's not the discussion which took place in my class the other day. While your points are valid, they have little to do with what this girl was trying to say.

Obviously, everyone has their own perspective of reality, but this girl was arguing that reality existed entirely within the subject. If this were the case then a person who truly believed he or she could fly, would be able to do so. More importantly, there was a time when there were no sentient beings to have a reality. Does this mean that there was nothing there since there was no one there to observe it? Obviously not. Otherwise, how did we come to be here? Your point about the blue glasses is valid, but that's not the point this girl was trying to make. While the glasses would shape our perception of the light in question, they would not actually change the color of the light.

Most importantly, you seem to be misunderstanding what the person in question was saying and the innate contradiction in stating that all realities (or all perspectives, if you prefer that term) are equally valid and arguing that any other position is wrong. If all realities are equally valid, then it's rather stupid to argue that a reality in which they are not equally valid is incorrect.
You can certainly have a discussion about how much of reality is subjective and how much is objective, but that's not what was happening in the situation I described.

It has been my experience with philosophy courses (it's my minor) that if you wish to say that all reality is subjective you will have a difficult time backing that argument up with any kind of logical argument. Certainly, I have never heard it attempted by anyone who had a basic grasp of philosophy and logic. Even your examples suppose that there is some amount of objectivity to reality, you seem only to question how much of that objectivity actually gets through to us. And while it may be a valid discussion to have at some times, this is an upper division course and this girl was just babbling about nonsense.

[coffeeloverfreak]

Actually, I understood quite well. I was just using the opportunity to play devil's advocate. I believe reality is objective, too. But back in my student days, I remember that being an interesting topic of debate in various philosophy courses.

I could go on with it, but I won't hijack the thread, and I'm really on your side anyway so it would be more for the mental exercise.

[Bear Warp]

Was this questioning by friends, acquaintance's, or just people you knew? Or none of the above?

I am not sure how I would react to this kind of questioning, but I would not be happy, that's for sure. Perhaps I would curl myself up into a metaphorical ball, and totally isolate myself from everyone, mentally when not physically.

Classmates. Decent people, though unable to wrap their minds around the "loner lifestyle". Their questions didn't bother me. I've gotten used to people thinking I'm slow (LOL), strange, gay, etc.

Also, thinking back, that meathead comment wasn't really meant for my questioning classmates. It was directed, rather, at the virgin-hating, football lovin' DUDES who stomp around at the high school I go to, people who are especially stumped and angered by people like me.

Nice. Do they even try to understand you?

My parents used to think I was a lesbian for the same reasons you listed. (Not that there is anything wrong with being gay, but it is just irritating how other people can project their own image of the world on you.)

I think they were trying to understand me through their questioning. But, if anything, I'm more of an enigma now than I've ever been for the people who know me.

[Lucid]

Actually, I understood quite well. I was just using the opportunity to play devil's advocate. I believe reality is objective, too. But back in my student days, I remember that being an interesting topic of debate in various philosophy courses.

I could go on with it, but I won't hijack the thread, and I'm really on your side anyway so it would be more for the mental exercise.

You should start a thread about objective vs. subjective reality. Or I should. Then we can play devils advocate at one another until one or both of us forgets their original stance on the argument :)

[Sahlain Anteth]

*GASP!* (There are no icons available for some reason?) Get back in the closet...



As for the other people mentioning sexuality, I've been questioned about being gay, but more so asexual. I brought two friends on a camping trip last summer and the one turns to me and says, "I'm being serious here. Have you ever considered the fact that maybe you're...asexual?" If I had been eating anything, I probably would have choked on it. I like guys, thank you very much. *Humpfs while crossing arms* (Once again, no icons at my disposal.)
I think this partly has to do with the introversion & thinking, because I experienced some of the same stuff. I never dated in high school--the pressure seemed so idiotic and I really didn't care about it. I hated the gossip and air-headed F-ish female drama. Thus, I had only one friend who was a girl--an ENFP who was a hold-over from elementary school--and otherwise hung with a group of guys.

College helped a lot--I got an INTJ roommate who was stable, rational, and SANE. God bless INTJs!

[Headstrong]

I think this partly has to do with the introversion & thinking, because I experienced some of the same stuff. I never dated in high school--the pressure seemed so idiotic and I really didn't care about it. I hated the gossip and air-headed F-ish female drama. Thus, I had only one friend who was a girl--an ENFP who was a hold-over from elementary school--and otherwise hung with a group of guys.

College helped a lot--I got an INTJ roommate who was stable, rational, and SANE. God bless INTJs!

I envy you. It sounds like heaven! I'm stuck at a community college, so I get up in the morning, attend class, and leave. It is my second semester and I have yet to really connect with anyone. Thankfully, I do have a few friends from high school in my classes.

[lordrrr]

My mom complimenting me on everything REALLY bugs me and then she goes all "You don't love me" and its just stupid she draws that conclusion. Look her compliments bug me okay. I only like compliments when they're from people my own age, even then I don't really care (though it's nice to know my friends get me when they compliment me that way) so I'm pretty anal on that.

Also, when she worries about me because I prefer being alone most nights. I have a lot of friends but I don't just rush out and do stuff. She thinks I WANT to go out and I don't I could if I wanted to.

That, and she makes the worst jokes ever.


She just triggers off so many of my pet peeves its insane. Sometimes I swear shes an ESFP or something.

[Femme de Homme INTJ]

As INTJs, we see things in a fundamentally different way than about 97% of the rest of the world. I'm curious what others would consider their most odd/surreal moment in interacting with other types.

Mine would have to be a discussion I had with my ESFP spouse. He's usually wonderful, but sometimes bizarre. In this case, he let me know that it made him angry when I'd empty the dishwasher in the morning.

No, that's not a typo. Me...emptying the dishwasher...made him angry.

Who else has moments like this?


I think I've seen you on another thread talking about your ESFP spouse... I was so confused. Such an odd couple. Anyway, I would freaking HATE it if you empties the dishwasher in the morning. I do not like noise in the morning. I am not a morning person. I do not like to be woken up.

I am much bitchier in my sleep than in waking life, but you must understand, I am alseep and therefore have no control. On the bright side, sleep is the only time when i can really be myself. ;D





Femme de Homme INTJ added to this post, 3 minutes and 15 seconds later...

wow..

My ex crying over a summer sausage and cheese gift pack I gave him for Christmas...it took everything I had not to laugh. I think the wine got to him...


He was probably just on his man-period.

[Antares]

My mom complimenting me on everything REALLY bugs me and then she goes all "You don't love me" and its just stupid she draws that conclusion. Look her compliments bug me okay. I only like compliments when they're from people my own age, even then I don't really care (though it's nice to know my friends get me when they compliment me that way) so I'm pretty anal on that.

Also, when she worries about me because I prefer being alone most nights. I have a lot of friends but I don't just rush out and do stuff. She thinks I WANT to go out and I don't I could if I wanted to.

That, and she makes the worst jokes ever.


She just triggers off so many of my pet peeves its insane. Sometimes I swear shes an ESFP or something.

Manipulate her into taking MBTI :devilish: It will all be worth it.

[coffeeloverfreak]

I had a pretty typical moment while visiting my parents yesterday. After dinner, I was watching TV with both my parents. The phone rang about 4-5 times in the course of the evening (all for my mom).

So there we were, my ESFJ mom rushing to get the phone each time, all excited to talk to people. And my ISTJ dad getting increasingly exasperated and annoyed each time the phone rang, avoiding answering it like the plague. And me, just as fed up as my dad but not showing it quite as much.

There really are two kinds of people in the world: E people who are happy when the phone rings, and I people who wish it would just shut up and leave them in peace.

[Murasaki]

Agreed. In high school especially, I always thought I was abnormal because I couldn't get into the giggly gossip. I would observe it as though watching an anthropological experiment, as in, what is *wrong* with these people?

Luckily I grew past that phase and realized there are plenty of people in the world who are interested in more than just gossip. I still encounter those types, though, and I find them really hard to take. Like, ohmigod! :laugh:

I can relate to that, although I didn't get that distance you have right away. It took me so long to understand what gossip was (empty, catty snivelling). Back in high school, I knew a girl who was insufferably bossy and boot-licking. Most people (males and females) couldn’t stand her and gossiped/ complained about her incessantly. So I said to myself, “I know how to fix this problem.” I told her, point blank, that she needed to stop telling people what to do and keep her (uninformed) opinions to herself. She started bawling. Everyone (the same everyone who had complained about her to me) felt bad for her, and told me I was ‘mean.’ When it was all over (several days later), she came up to me, gave me a hug and said, “I forgive you. We’re still friends, right?” To which my mind simply shut down with a resounding, “What?!?" I just keep my mouth shut now.

[eMachine]

I have 2 'close' female friends left from my teenage years, I think the only thing we have in common is that we have children, and I can't remember what we based our friendships on in the first place.

One, we'll call her J, she is THE most gossipy person that I know. She had been telling me that I should get government assistance to save money and I had explained that my husband makes too much and I don't have any interest in getting the government involved with my family. A few days later she called me and said "I told A that you're having trouble getting gov assistance and she said you should do" such and such. I was rather appalled that 1) she didn't seem to understand that I don't want such assistance and 2) that she was actually admitting to me that she was discussing my business with someone I hardly know and she didn't seem to see any problem with it at all.

The other, we'll call her M, is the most outspoken and argumentative person that I know, which wouldn't be a bad thing if she used any basis of reason and logic. M was visiting my house one day and began argueing with my husband (his favorite pass-time when she's around). I can't remember what their initial discussion was, but at one point my husband said "some people believe in fairies, but that doesn't mean they really exist." And she looked dumbstruck and said "Well, I believe in fairies. Fairies are real." Ha...

A few minutes later, she started talking about how her aunt's first child had been born with a "cone head" (as she called it) and that he'd had to have surgery of his skull or he may have died. My husband said that he wouldn't have let doctors cut open his newborns head, because that would pose the same (or more) risk of death as the skull abnormality. She seemed to take this as an insult to her aunt for having approved the surgery and proceeded to defend her aunt's actions exclaiming "But it was her first child and he could have DIED because of it, you would let your child DIE?!" This argument went on for nearly an hour... after she left, my husband told me "M thinks I'm a horrible person now." I said "It doesn't matter if she does, she killed her own baby a year ago" (had an abortion). He was astonished that she'd spent all that time arguing with him about it and making him feel as if he's a bad person, when really her side of the argument was nullified by her actions.

My husband is ENTJ. I suspect M is an xFSP and J is an ESTJ, but they haven't taken the test for me yet.

Oh yeah, my phone rang showing an unfamiliar number and I just remembered... my husband had this friend "S" when we were living in Texas. S would always demand that we have dinner with his family, for example he would say "We're having a barbeque on Sunday, bring your own steaks and a veggie to share" rather than simply informing and inviting us. He would also become very offended and upset when we didn't call him for a few days and/or did not answer our phone. A year and a half ago we moved 1800 miles away without telling him or saying good-bye... to this day we still get voicemail from him, asking how we're doing and why we don't call him. I don't know what type he is, but he really freaks us out, to the point that we never answer the phone if the number is unfamiliar for fear of getting stuck talking to him. LOL