When does a machine have the rights of a human?

[Hdier]

This is a topic visited in many Sci-Fi films/books/etc., such as Star Trek and I Robot. I was wondering what everyone thought: when is a machine the equivalent of a human?

[BlueTopaz]

Well, in the context of the fiction you cited, when it becomes sentient or self-aware.

Instances that exemplify this: Data (Star Trek NG) when Picard saved him from destruction.
The speech about "the ghost in the machine" (The MOVIE I Robot)

[Hdier]

And that's why I love those movies/shows. They have good morals.

But when do you think that machines are equivalents to humans?

[AgentofGaming]

But when do you think that machines are equivalents to humans?

When they have the equivalent of the irrational right brain?
I wonder what Robot art is like.

What about instead of creating robots a parallel of creating organics?
What rights will those have?

[1OFMANY]

When they get inhabited by spirits the same way we are :) We are no different except we are organic :)

[Hdier]

Yeah, I loved that episode in Star Trek where Picard starts talking about how we are essentially organic robots, with food instead of electricity, and amino acids instead of wires (or something to that effect).

The problem, though, is that we can't measure 'spirit'. If a robot is programmed in such a way that he/she/it can imitate a human perfectly, wouldn't that be identical to spirit?

[1OFMANY]

Yeah, I loved that episode in Star Trek where Picard starts talking about how we are essentially organic robots, with food instead of electricity, and amino acids instead of wires (or something to that effect).

The problem, though, is that we can't measure 'spirit'. If a robot is programmed in such a way that he/she/it can imitate a human perfectly, wouldn't that be identical to spirit?

If you died and later "ran into" one of your robot buddies that also "passed on" then absolutely lol. I would have to agree :)

[Antares]

Well, in the context of the fiction you cited, when it becomes sentient or self-aware.

Instances that exemplify this: Data (Star Trek NG) when Picard saved him from destruction.
The speech about "the ghost in the machine" (The MOVIE I Robot)

Agreed. But in Star Wars, even though C-3PO is technically self-aware (but restricted by his programming), they still treat him like a 'droid'. Maybe Lucas didn't think about this issue ;)

When they get inhabited by spirits the same way we are :) We are no different except we are organic :)

Spirits, as in 'soul', like they say in religion and most superstition? That really depends on if souls are real, and in a case where no one is sure of its existence, or non-existence, I don't think we should talk about it as if it's real.

[snoogit]

This will be completely vulgar, and completely mind blowing mind f*ckery, but this is my answer:

A robot is a human when you can have sex with it, and it responds emotionally to you.

to boil it down:

Once an A.I. can experience emotion, it's no longer a machine in my mind, its a sentient entity. Emotion will probably be the hardest, and last thing to ever be learned by an A.I. so its the last stepping stone to true sentience IMHO.

[qwerty]

hahaha snoogit.

Ok this is an interesting question, so let me pose a scenario... With todays health technology we can replace legs, arms, and even have mechanical hearts. If some time in the future we had a device to replace every part of the human body(including brains), and over the course of a persons life they do replace ever part one by one. At what point does that person lose their humanity?

[thod]

This already happens. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[BlueTopaz]

Agreed. But in Star Wars, even though C-3PO is technically self-aware (but restricted by his programming), they still treat him like a 'droid'. Maybe Lucas didn't think about this issue ;)





You know what, I think Lucas did think about it and was trying to make the point that bigotry can exist in even the most technologically sophisticated society. Remember the Cantina on Tatooine (Mos Eisly or something like that)? When the droids enter the bartender says "we don't serve their kind here." That is an allusion to bigoted behavior like that shown toward blacks in pre-civil rights southern states.

[qwerty]

hahaha snoogit.

Ok this is an interesting question, so let me pose a scenario... With todays health technology we can replace legs, arms, and even have mechanical hearts. If some time in the future we had a device to replace every part of the human body(including brains), and over the course of a persons life they do replace ever part one by one. At what point does that person lose their humanity?

This already happens. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

So if we had completely mechanical stem cells (only a what-if), are we still human if we use them on ourselves? Or do we have a soul as well that can't be mechanized hence why it maybe impossible to have human robots?

[Bojangles]

when it can have sex

[vkut79]

When is a machine the equivalent of a human?

The answer is simple, I'm not sure why you are having such a debate over it. If you call it a machine, as the question implies, it is not the equivalent of a human. If it is not born like a human, it is not human. Human is more than just the right arrangement of molecules - it is a process that starts with conception, and ends with death. It is not just a physical construction.

Maybe you should rephrase the question - When is a machine deserving of the same rights/respect as a human? My answer would remain the same to this however, as non-humans don't ever "deserve" any respect from humans in my opinion.

[Mr Galt]

When a robot can learn to innovate and use inductive reasoning I will consider them equal to humans.

[Tsuru]

Echoing BlueTopaz, I think robots get rights when they become sentient.

[vkut79]

"Echoing BlueTopaz, I think robots get rights when they become sentient."

Sentience has a very subjective, and thus externally unobservable component. How do you know that a machine is sentient? How can you tell from observing it and its processes?

[Mr Galt]

Well we know they aren't sentient now. They'll be sentient when we no longer can tell beyond a hunch that they aren't. Hooray for benefit of the doubt!

[vkut79]

IM chat bots seem pretty sentient to me at times. Should they get the benefit of the doubt?

[vaguely dissatisfied]

When is a machine not the equivalent of a human? Since humans decide when another species, race, thing should be equivalent isn't the point moot?

[Victor Tango]

When a machine exhibits the the "three Ss"

sentience
self-awareness
sapience (metacognition)

In addition, when a machine cannot only pass a full turing test, but write one itself.

[AgentofGaming]

Just wait till the day software writes itself.
Imagine what will happen...

When computers start inventing computers.

[vkut79]

Or when computers will be able to learn at a faster rate and at a higher capacity than humans. The ultimate mistake will be when humans program computers to value self-preservation. At that point, computers will have a reason to turn against us.

[Chevy Chase]

A machine can't have the rights of humans, because... a machine, by definition, is not human.

[vkut79]

What if you can't tell if its a machine or human any longer? oooh

[liger0]

No, machines do not have human rights. They are built as workers for a specific purpose. They are meant to serve the will of their creators. Only if it can be proven that they are sentient, then it will be a true question.


I'll still lean towards no, though...

[Victor Tango]

A machine can't have the rights of humans, because... a machine, by definition, is not human.

Huh?

That's like saying "You cannot have my hairstyle because...you, by definition, are not me."

Just because a certain categorization of thing has a particular attribute, does not automatically disqualify other things from having the same attribute.

Now, whether machines should have the same rights as humans is another thing entirely.

Vic

[lordrrr]

Or when computers will be able to learn at a faster rate and at a higher capacity than humans. The ultimate mistake will be when humans program computers to value self-preservation. At that point, computers will have a reason to turn against us.

This adds to a good point. It seems computers are getting smarter while humans are getting dumber.

[Antares]

This adds to a good point. It seems computers are getting smarter while humans are getting dumber.

Yes. Dumb enough to give a machine free will and the capacity of self-actualization. It's the ultimate mistake.

[Victor Tango]

Yes. Dumb enough to give a machine free will and the capacity of self-actualization. It's the ultimate mistake.

Indeed. Sadly, it appears we have learned nothing from the Terminator movies.

[lordrrr]

I still think we have quite a ways to go until computers reach that point however. But that's just my opinion.

[xxvinjoexx]

when is a machine the equivalent of a human? When a machine can make a decision based on Emotion. ;)

[lordrrr]

when is a machine the equivalent of a human? When a machine can make a decision based on Emotion. ;)

Does that mean some INTJ's are machines.

Whoah.


I just realized guys- we're not actually human. We're a science experiment gone horribly awry. People isolate us but don't tell us why- this is because they know the truth and must keep it a secret before we discover the truth and unleash our potential.


But now I have discovered my true power:
50000000X TUB GIRLS FORWARDED TO THE WHITE HOUSE EVERY MINUTE BY HAND!

[Antares]

I still think we have quite a ways to go until computers reach that point however. But that's just my opinion.

But AI's developed too. All we have to do is to figure out a way to insert free-will and self-preservation. Then the rest we can only imagine. However, I do think that we still have a long way to Star Wars (the droids, not hyperspace etc).

But now I have discovered my true power:
50000000X TUB GIRLS FORWARDED TO THE WHITE HOUSE EVERY MINUTE BY HAND!

I admit I don't 'get' your power :thinking: Maybe it's to create confusion? :idea:

[lordrrr]

But AI's developed too. All we have to do is to figure out a way to insert free-will and self-preservation. Then the rest we can only imagine. However, I do think that we still have a long way to Star Wars (the droids, not hyperspace etc).



I admit I don't 'get' your power :thinking: Maybe it's to create confusion? :idea:

It would be pretty hard to send that many tubgirls to the white house by hand in one minute :/