U.S. Grant - INTJ - Share your historical opinion.

[INTroJect]

I just finished with Volume I.

Anyone out there do a study of him or read his book? I would like to hear your perspective.

[TDK442]

But I am not so sure that he was an INTJ. I have no direct evidence of this, but he does not completely seem the type. He was incompetent in a whole realm of different life-areas. He may have only been competent because his one skill-set fit exactly with the one thing that Lincoln needed in late 1863. Lincoln needed a hammer. He needed a man who would fight. He had a bunch of generals who liked to maneuver, dance, play games, etc. By late 1863 the north had a huge advantage in terms of numbers (men, weopons, equipment, population, money, etc.). The southern objective was quite simple: drag the war on long enough for the northern citizens to get pissed enough that they voted Lincoln out of office, therefore ending the way and allowing the south to stay "free." Grant brough an iron will and determination to the table. He said, quite simply, I am going to follow my objectives, and grind my opponent into oblivion, no matter what the human cost. Lincoln needed someone who was going to start fighting and winning, in a hurry, because the elections of 1864 were fast approaching. He needed a general that could take momentum by those elections, and end the war quickly. Grant felt as though he would just engage the enemy anywhere and anytime. Even if he lost two men to every one the south lost, he was still winning. My favorite quote about Grant was how he perpetually carried the look like he was about to put his head through a brick wall.

After two years of great success as the Union hammer... the "butcher," if you will, the war ended, and he continued his previous trend of severe incompetence, as his presidential terms was a joke.

As is so often said when studying history, however, he was exactly the right man, at the right time, and the right place. His skill-set happened to fit perfectly with what Lincoln needed, and for that reason, he is one of the most famous men in our history...

[Xenolar]

I don't think that he is an INTJ either. To me he appears to be a very grumpy ISFP, or a rather tipsy ISTJ.

He was a rather good strategist (I find it amusing that much of his military success in battle was due to his lack of sobriety), and a somewhat decent president.

As a person, he doesn't strike me as anywhere near pleasant.

[Julian]

All I remember from history class is that he had one of the most corrupt administrations in U.S. history.

Oh, and that he was a drunk, but civil wars will do that to a person.

[HP308]

US Grant was clearly an INTJ. Read his memoirs and the books by Fuller and pay close attention to his modus operandi.

This MBTI thing is a best fit scenario at best! Like different shades of any given color there are infinite shades within one type. I have yet to see any one person fully embody their description.

[Quite Robert]

God I hope not.
Know any INTJ's that are raging, out of control alcoholics? Nah, we have too many control issues. I also don't see a strong analytical side in him. One of the top 5 worst presidents easliy.

[Scooby]

Contrary to popular belief, many historians now say Grant was not the hard drinker that history has said. It is believed that he was given the moniker of a hard drinker when he made the statement after Shiloh “find out what kind of whiskey he drinks and send a barrel to all my generals”. He had a disheveled look for a general at that time. When most generals were worried about appearance, he focused on the battle at hand. He was cool and calculating, but always agreeable to change if he thought it would work. What set him aside from the other generals of the time is that he knew he had the numbers and was willing to use them.

[SeaCzar]

I have also read that Grant was no so much of a drunk, but simply could not hold his liquor well. After two drinks or so, he as intoxicated. Adolph Hitler once remarked that he was convinced that he would win the Second World War because he was fighting against two drunks (Chruchill & Stalin) and a cripple (Roosevelt).

[1OFMANY]

All I remember from history class is that he had one of the most corrupt administrations in U.S. history

True, however it wasnt his doing per se, he was a victim of it as well.

[meanlittlechimp]

He seems to be an INTJ.

"He was very shy as a student and as an adult. He kept his intelligence to himself (most people thought he was dumb - before, during and after West Point. He wasn't the drunk people claimed he was. He rarely drank, problem was that when he drunk at all, he couldn't handle it and made an ass of himself." - from Keirsey's Presidential Temperaments.

There was some other stuff that I can't recall now that made me think J instead of P.

[PhoenixWind]

He generally fits the INTJ profile.

Basics:
1.) Grant was an introvert. "I"
2.) He was definitely a "doer" and thus a "J".
3.) Grant's tactics were not as imaginative as his contemporaries, but his general strategy was to take and hold key areas, a highly Rationalistic trait. (SP individuals are usually best at tactics, but NTs are more strategic and long-term focused.) Since he had the resource advantage in men, it was strategic to use the advantage, no matter how bloody it would have to be. He wasn't called his other nickname, "Unconditional Surrender Grant" for nothing. The way he used the resource was to cut and restrict the enemies sources of supply. This is a classic Rational(NT) strategy.

Other Points:
1.) The dangerous side of being an INTJ is that you have a tendency to revel in physical sensations rather than simply characterizing them. (www dot typelogic dot com/intj dot html)
This can be good if highly controlled, but if not it can produce highly addictive and destructive behaviors. Grant's drinking might be characterized in this fashion.
2.) The fact that Grant was a less than stellar President, can be easily explained in that politics was not one of his "systems". He had spend his entire career in the military, and did not know all of the problems or machinations behind the scenes required of a political elite. Most INTJs prefer to be blunt and straight-forward when possible or when not in a system that they specialize in. This provided the political machine ample capability to indirectly and directly influence him.
3.) Grant was not thought bright until much later in his career, similar to most INTJs. While mentally quick, the fact that INTJs either cannot or tend to not share the complexity of thought easily leads to false assumptions on the part of others. The fact that INTJs usually see the caveat case or contingencies in a given problem often leads to a deeper analysis than most types consider, thus slowing the reaction time of an INTJ compared to the expected time of an intelligent individual. Grant would sit and let his Generals and Aides argue about the best course of action, and then simply give them the plan after he considered both what they were considering and what he had in mind.
4.) Earlier it was mentioned that Grant was not a pleasant person. INTJs are not necessarily pleasant people. I have known the gambit of INTJs, from highly personal to the converse. The focus of the INTJ is the inward process of thought by external thinking, not necessarily considering the potential "pleasantness" that one's view or solution would give in a social context. Thus, Grant's persona fits in the general INTJ category.