Nootropics

[bubbles]

Has anyone here tried taking Nootropics (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) or cognitive enhancers? Do they really work? What are your experiences using them?

I've only tried one of them. I didn't really make me feel smarter; it just increased mental alertness and made me feel happy and refreshed.

[lowbrass]

Yes, and many. You will have to try different things to see how they aid you or hurt you. So, initially, you may want to buy smaller samples.

I was into studying this stuff like 14 years ago, and recall bringing in information to share with some close friends in high school about various nootropics. However, during college, I had almost no $$ and online ordering in '96-98 wasn't as practical, either.

Before I go on, I'll post a few links to forums with TONS of info and detailed experiences, as well as sources to buy from:

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

As part of an earlier regimen, I used to do what I jokingly referred to as an "herbal speedball" but it was really a mixture of things like:

Oxiracetam (Memory / Brain Focus)
Centrophenoxine (Memory / Brain Focus)
Rhodiola (Mood Elevator, Combat Fatigue)
Bacopa Monnieri (Concentration)
ALCAR (Memory / Brain)
Inositol (Mood; Anti-anxiety)
Choline (Essential for all of the above)

and something else I'm forgetting.

I'd take this in the morning, usually with copious amounts of gatorade or some other flavored drink (to combat the tastes of these things) and usually, on my way to work I'd achieve a subtle happy feeling - kind of like, "all right, lets go!", but once I got to work, I basically sat down and dug into to what I was doing. After a little while, I did begin to notice an ability to recall more random details - things that were only presented to me once, but later, at an inopportune time, I'd be able to recall - oh, yeah, that phone number is xxx.

I also enjoyed drinking a Mountain Dew on the way to work, as it also conspired to elevate my alertness. This was a double-edged sword, though - because the damn sugar and caffeine crash would start to get me later.

Another thing that sucked, is that my body would start to get more tolerant of the effects, so I'd have to stop. BUT, I might not have had this issue if I didn't have to fear any potential craziness at work if I were discovered with any of this stuff. I mean, you really need to be able to re-dose some of these things mid-day, when it counts, but I don't need someone going crazy if I'm seen with some unmarked pills and powders!

Understandably, to the uninformed observer it'd look very bad, but it'd be a kick in the nuts to me, because I loathe those that use stupifying drugs.

That said - for starters, everyone goes for the *racetams. Piracetam has been around for AGES, but many have gone after the seemingly more potent Ani- and Oxi- variants. In fact, Oxi is very pleasing to taste. Ani is so lightweight you have to not breathe while taking a dose, else it goes everywhere.

Centrophenoxine is often added as a catalyst for the positive effects of the *racetams. However, if you get a headache initially, it indicates you need to increase your intake of Choline. Centro is a very chemical-tasting powder, kinda bitter, but as long as you drink enough juice the taste subsides quickly.

Choline is needed to help your body make Acetylcholine, which, I believe, is the fuel that Centro is acting upon.

Later on, I'd add SAMe, Deprenyl, and finally try out Hydergine. Only problem now, is that it was impossible to know for certain what was really working and what might or might not have been contributing. Well, with the exception of Hydergine - that stuff gave me some of the CRAZIEST dreams I've had, since I was little and got scared from my nightmares. I otherwise didn't notice it's purported effects at the usual dose.

One of the main reasons I tried the Rhodiola, Bacopa and Inositol, was to try to counteract my struggles with social interaction. To an extent, these things helped cool off my typical self-consciousness and muted some minor social phobia, but the combination of the brain boosters sometimes got in the way. In essence, my mind still raced, but but my awareness of self-consciousness and phobia was much reduced.

Most recently, I have been taking Ashwaganda, along with Rhodiola, and some other wellness herbs, and it was surprisingly enough for me to keep my composure and go to this tavern where I met a waitress and I was able to talk to her and get her phone number. Unfortunately, I got cheated again, as she elected to not answer her phone (we only exchanged a pair of texts) but the bottom line was that I didn't really feel scared, frightened or embarrassed, like I normally would. I mean, I was really attracted to this girl and that alone, when push comes to shove, would make me nervous, but this time it wasn't so.

Overall - I, too, did not experience any increased "smartness", per se, but my usefulness & productivity definitely increased in a reasonable fashion. Also, and I think this is just an inherent issue with our personality make-up, your libido may or may not take a hit. I seemed to need a bit more stimulation to get things started, and that did not suit me so nicely when I was involved - despite the EX not taking exception. I think that excitement might get muted, and some of that might be derived from the extra brain activity (processing of thoughts overtaking processing of pleasure). Of course, this is fine and dandy now that I'm gonna be single for another eternity.

Lastly - your mileage may vary. Edit - I also am trying out Royal Jelly. Hopefully it arrives by Saturday.

[thod]

How do you know if you are smarter though? Coffee makes you smarter and you feel it since it effects energy levels. Smoking makes you smarter too sicne the nictotene ends up as adrenalin.

My main concern with all the nootropics is the science. It must be proven that you are smarter not just feeling better. I think I am superman with cocaine but to everyone around me I am obnoxious. You see people on the forums saying take amphetamines, yea I can run 10 miles then. But I have known speed heads and in the end they are pathetic creatures with their addiction. Taking something to make you smarter than cause long term damage is actualy not that smart. Maybe such a thing would be useful for an exam. I knew a guy that failed one of his university papers because he took a load of speed hoping to be smart for a few hours. He thought he had written a great paper, turns out when he was shown it by his tutor he had just rambled making no sense at all. The very last thing I want is for my neurons to burn so brightly that they burn out and I left a retard.

1) Must make you smarter
2) Must not damage you in the short or long term
3) Must not make you addicted

Testing these things on yourself is not wise. You are taking substances that are likely to hurt you in the long term. Stick to things with extensive scientific research.

[lowbrass]

Take the time to read from some of the links provided, and even do some cursory searches on the things I've listed, and you'll find that just about all of these things counteract your concerns.

One of the links is for the so-called "Immortality Institute". If they didn't believe that these things weren't harmful in the long term, they certainly would be clamoring, "to hell with nootropics". But the reality is, they often slow or even reduce negative effects of aging on the brain. Obviously, it's important to maintain cognitive function later into life, to avoid things like Alzheimer's.

People on the Avant Labs forum often have ties to the medical community and do post scientific research articles from the various databases that they have access to. To boot, they debate the hell out of it. If one needs scientific evidence, it IS out there.

I can cite myself as an example, as I've supplemented off and on for 6 years. Actually, I find it harder to adhere to the regimen - and certainly, am not pining for things like, say, one would be doing for cigarettes.

Addiction is generally NOT something associated with nootropics. However, people often are inspired to combine addictive things with nootropics - and I think THAT is more up your alley as far as those concerns go. I did kind of get myself with Caffeine and sugar, so I had to cut down on soda.

Some people like that have determined - well, I'll use my adderal, and I'll smoke - but based on what we know about the nootropics, I'll just use those to inhibit the problems that are known to happen with my prescriptions.

Bottom line is, the data is out there, it can be found, and we can process it and render our own judgments based on it. Maybe it doesn't help with those that have preconceived notions about things, and if that's the case, nobody's forcing you do do anything :cool:

[bubbles]

Thanks for all the useful info, lowbrass. I just started Piracetam and the effects seem to last about five to six hours. I'm not tired or burnt out in the afternoons as I typically was before. It seems better than coffee - it doesn't cause insomnia, lasts longer, doesn't stain my teeth, and it actually makes me feel good. I did a little research on it before taking it, and I was convinced that it was as safe as coffee (which I abused). I'm also taking Bacopa Monnieri, but I don't feel its effects. It tastes like sweetened tangerine peels (a Chinese food)...I like its taste.

lowbrass (and anyone else who has taken -acetams), how long do you feel its effects? Do the effects weaken as your body gets used to it?

[lowbrass]

From my experience, the benefits seemed to last around 5 hours. I'd load up in the morning (8AM) and by 1PM the effects had worn. I was alluding to this when I talked about the need to re-up in the middle of the day. Doing that would be ideal and it'd cover the entire work day, as well as the commute back.

After a couple months of use, I'd notice some lessening of the effects. Mostly in the mornings, though, when the slight mood increase would subside. I'd still mostly have the cognitive stuff going on. However, I can't say that my take is very reliable on this, because I didn't use the greatest amount of consistency with my usage. Usually, within the span of a couple months, I'd let myself stop for a few days or weeks in a row. Upon resuming, it seemed that I needed just as much, if not more, to continue the positive effects. It's also tough to say which of the things was responsible for the fade. I don't get the sense that Piracetam fades a whole lot, but some people always suggest taking a break & noting the differences, then resuming.

It also dawned on me that the age of some of my powders could be a factor. I did buy some large quantities, and some are over a year old. Perhaps I must find better containers.

[curious1]

I hope you exercise caution and stay the hell away from amphetamine. As far as away as possible. Psychosis has been the worse experience of my life.

[robinana]

I currently take phenibut but am looking for other options





robinana added to this post, 0 minutes and 55 seconds later...

what is your psychosis a result of?

[Kisai]

I just drink 2-4 cups of tea over the course of a day to keep my attention levels up.

I tried gingko for three months, it didn't do anything.

[Autoptic]

I seem to recall Oxiracetam having a ridiculously short half-life. Piracetam is weaker but lasts longer.

[RichardCMongler]

Adderall

I've taken it 6 times total in a period of 4 years, mainly for the more demanding exams (e.g. Differential Equations).

It's extremely addictive though - I've had to constantly remind myself NOT to take another pill when the effects started subsiding. Also, I had to resort to taking a sleeping pill after each occasion, because there was absolutely no way I could fall asleep after taking it.

Other than that, I mainly just stick to Caffeine heh.

[Havenoregrets]

I stumbled on this thread on Google searching for Nootropics. It's kind of old but I'd like to get it going again.

I noticed that Piracetam was discontinued by everyone due to an FDA crackdown of some sort. Anyone have any details? And I'm having no luck finding Oxiracetam. Is the ban on all *racetams?

[amber1962]

Where does one purchase aniracetam or racetam? I mean reputable brands, of course. I recently learned a little about them on this site. Are there any studies? Or are people just personally experimenting? I'm wanting to feel better. I would love some neuroprotection from nutrients as well as increased dopamine for general motivation and feelings of wellbeing, rather than general misery. Sorry for misspelled words.
Amber

---------- Post added 06-19-2011 at 06:06 PM ----------

I guess you'r where I'm at. I didn't realize FDA had control over nootropics.

---------- Post added 06-19-2011 at 06:09 PM ----------

I bought Bacopa extract at the local health food market today. Didn't know what it was, but came home and googled it when this site appeared. Anyone have any use for it?

[Haumea]

I try to stay away from pharmaceuticals since I invariably experience some kind of side effects from them. I'll stick to exercise for now - it lasts longer (upto as much as 36 hrs. in my experience.)

[nhillson]

The various amphetamines are almost without a doubt the most powerful nootropics. However, there are the obvious issues of heart attack, addiction, and amphetamine psychosis.

[Somewhere man]

I can't help being a smartass:

I find that any food with a significant amount of carbohydrates seems to help my brain function better.

[Tocsin]

The various amphetamines are almost without a doubt the most powerful nootropics. However, there are the obvious issues of heart attack, addiction, and amphetamine psychosis.

I was in the punk scene in Los Angeles when Crystal Meth was all the rage.

I remember friends becoming increasingly paranoid and suspicious of others. One wound up only going out at night, for fear of attack, and the main reason for leaving the home was to get more speed or add to her bayonet and dagger collection. They called it "meth monsters."

After one broke down and left LA, she wrote saying it was just like Mark Smith described at the end of the song "Totally Wired," (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) "I'm irate.... peeved... irate... peeved... a bad state bad state... and I'm always worried... and I'm always worried..." (the song really does seem to catch the mood.)

At the height of military air operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, I remember reading about the air Force use of "go-pills" to keep pilots alert on long operations - and how it was leading to increasing amounts of domestic abuse, homicide, suicide and psychosis in the air force, and I remember thinking "DUH!"

There's nothing cool or romantic about going insane.

Don't bother with it (unless you're dumb enough to want to find out first hand). I didn't.

[AthenaInMind]

In my experience, the amount of time researching, finding the correct dosage (for you specifically), and finding a retailer, is equal to or greater than the benefit of cognitive practice.

I've tried Piracetam in combination with choline bitartrate:
Numerous times have I varied dosage and time I take the chemicals, but to no avail. The highest dose I took, two grams, left me with high blood pressure and a crazy headache... not good at all.

DMAE (Dimethly-amino-ethanol):
This nootropic is probably the cheapest (since it is actually used in water treatment in bulk) and most effective. It works by being turned into acetylcholine during digestion, then passing through the blood-brain barrier. It aids in memory--short- and long-term. The only downside to this chemical is that it can make you emanate a fishy smell...

And of course, caffeine--which is my favorite! It isn't too strong or too mild. It can leave you dry on the comedown side. If you take L-Tyrosine (amino-acid) with caffeine, it helps even out the comedown and even prevent a crash by aiding in the production of new dopamine molecules!