INTJ and ENTJ Advantages and Disadvantages

[Jgib5328]

What advantages & disadvantages do INTJs have over ENTJs?

[Santana28]

thats a good question. seems to me from my experience that the only person who can beat me at my own game is an ENTJ... i really wouldn't begin to know what we have an "Advantage" over them with, except perhaps in the realm of self-understanding and self-awareness. Seems like ENTJs spend less time focusing their thoughts inward on themselves, and they look for more external clues as to who they are. I think we are much more able to tell you exactly how we feel and why we feel it, whereas the more extroverted types spend more time doing things and looking at the results, than contemplating their thought processes.

[RoqueBear]

I'm boarder line I/E myself. When I'm in a structured setting is when my extrovertedness comes out; school, work, organizations, etc. In structure my intuition serves me well.

The biggest thing I've noticed is that the people who know me in those settings typically ask me to be a leader or representative for different things often. Some I take and others I take with a grain of salt. I typically stray or feel awkward in something like the bar scene or big group party type of settings. Sometimes closing the door and escaping from people can be tough and requires tact.

I know I'm an introvert, but when I do choose to have social interactions they're typically deliberate, intense and significant... Which can lead people to think I'm very extroverted in those situations.

I guess I'd have to say advantage / disadvantages is very relative.

[mind_wander]

Being experience with an ENTJ, they are really cool people.

Advantages: They do all the functions, like you the only difference they would just blurt it out. Not all of it, because they know there are feelers out there, yeah they don't like feelers. They cry all the time, if ENTJs saying something wrong to you. Most of the times, ENTJs are using it in sarcastic jokes, not literal, still not everyone gets that. ENTJs jokes will not go full blast because of this, they will end up, as the oddball and no one like that in the norm sense. They don't mind sharing it with the INTJs though because we are calm people. Hey, What is on your mind? Please share it, anything your wished desires.

Working on the team settings, wow impressive work, very viligant. ENTJs needs ideas pumping, INTJs are there for you to helped back it up. We give them questions, so they can answered their own questions, so they can get their true idea out from inside the mind, bingo
its all done. Its very quick and enjoyable to work with. They do complain because they do alot of the heavy work, while INTJs complain about the internal mental stress. Its more like, join the club, hey, I've been in similar situations just like you attitude. This way, there is no hide or go seek. Its more like, INTJs produce and ENTJs can do something much quicker with efficiency. So, when these two combined, Warning and watch out! There are things in this department is not shared towards the majority; alot of inside jokes between the two types. The more fun and exciting intellectually. Life is not boring, its very exciting and draws you inwards, yeah INTJs will run out of mental juice, lol. Due to the E side by the ENTJs. But, its all worth it.

Disadvantage Note: Don't pushed us to do something we don't like to do! Thats not how INTJs roll, we think carefully before we do things.

[Lucid]

thats a good question. seems to me from my experience that the only person who can beat me at my own game is an ENTJ... i really wouldn't begin to know what we have an "Advantage" over them with, except perhaps in the realm of self-understanding and self-awareness. Seems like ENTJs spend less time focusing their thoughts inward on themselves, and they look for more external clues as to who they are. I think we are much more able to tell you exactly how we feel and why we feel it, whereas the more extroverted types spend more time doing things and looking at the results, than contemplating their thought processes.

Really? I know three ENTJs and while I think they're all awesome people whom I respect a lot, there's nobody I know who can beat me at my own game like an ISTJ. My ENTJ friends and relatives usually end up cowering at my feet.
Ok, not really cowering. But they are usually pretty intimidated by me.
I'm not trying to say you're wrong about them, just that my experience has been different. :)

[mind_wander]

Really? I know three ENTJs and while I think they're all awesome people whom I respect a lot, there's nobody I know who can beat me at my own game like an ISTJ. My ENTJ friends and relatives usually end up cowering at my feet.
Ok, not really cowering. But they are usually pretty intimidated by me.
I'm not trying to say you're wrong about them, just that my experience has been different. :)

This is very correct. They can easily find all those missing details that INTJs lack. Oh boy, its alright, though.

[Jgib5328]

Working on the team settings, wow impressive work, very viligant. ENTJs needs ideas pumping, INTJs are there for you to helped back it up. We give them questions, so they can answered their own questions, so they can get their true idea out from inside the mind, bingo
its all done. Its very quick and enjoyable to work with. They do complain because they do alot of the heavy work, while INTJs complain about the internal mental stress. Its more like, join the club, hey, I've been in similar situations just like you attitude. This way, there is no hide or go seek. Its more like, INTJs produce and ENTJs can do something much quicker with efficiency. So, when these two combined, Warning and watch out! There are things in this department is not shared towards the majority; alot of inside jokes between the two types. The more fun and exciting intellectually. Life is not boring, its very exciting and draws you inwards, yeah INTJs will run out of mental juice, lol. Due to the E side by the ENTJs. But, its all worth it.

You make it sound like we are just support to the ENTJs, like we are some kind of passive subordinates. That's what I hate. That's how I've been seeing the INTJ & ENTJ relationships. The ENTJs take leadership, while the INTJs are the subordinates or help support the ENTJ. That's kinda what most of you are making it sound like and the descriptions I read comparing the two. What I basically understand is that the ENTJs will have an easier time reaching greater external success in most contexts, while the INTJs reach greater internal success. That's pretty much the reason I asked this question, is because I want the statement proved wrong.

The descriptions make me believe that INTJs are like cats, while ENTJs are more like sharks. The INTJ will find great success and have complete control over his or her small domain, while the shark will reach the top in a broader sense and have more control. I've never thought of myself like this, but I kind of got that sense from the descriptions. Even in your disadvantage "Disadvantage Note: Don't pushed us to do something we don't like to do! Thats not how INTJs roll, we think carefully before we do things." That could describe my cat. Whenever I try to pick her up she scratches me. Maybe it's just a problem with the descriptions I see.

[errrzarrr]

I have a doubt/question somehow related to this topic. I wonder If anyone could tell me how a Intj-Entj boyf-girlf relationship would be. Him: INTJ (me), her: entj.

...

[mind_wander]

You make it sound like we are just support to the ENTJs, like we are some kind of passive subordinates. That's what I hate. That's how I've been seeing the INTJ & ENTJ relationships. The ENTJs take leadership, while the INTJs are the subordinates or help support the ENTJ. That's kinda what most of you are making it sound like and the descriptions I read comparing the two. What I basically understand is that the ENTJs will have an easier time reaching greater external success in most contexts, while the INTJs reach greater internal success. That's pretty much the reason I asked this question, is because I want the statement proved wrong.

The descriptions make me believe that INTJs are like cats, while ENTJs are more like sharks. The INTJ will find great success and have complete control over his or her small domain, while the shark will reach the top in a broader sense and have more control. I've never thought of myself like this, but I kind of got that sense from the descriptions. Even in your disadvantage "Disadvantage Note: Don't pushed us to do something we don't like to do! Thats not how INTJs roll, we think carefully before we do things." That could describe my cat. Whenever I try to pick her up she scratches me. Maybe it's just a problem with the descriptions I see.

Actually, the disproved side on the advantages of an INTJs are there. But, its much better, if you actually met one to see it, for yourself. The advantages for INTJs reach higher than ENTJs would be thoroughness in thinking both internally and externally, while ENTJs are all out on the way they think. I couldn't think of anymore, during the time I was writing it, but thanx for bring that up. I knew there was much more, kinda forgot which ones; details are not my thing.

[Vicimdhar]

Differences I've noticed (sample size: 1 ENTJ, 1 INTJ (me)):

ENTJ's advantages:
- ENTJ's can just 'do' stuff all day long and immediately act as a problem arises. That way they usually do much more than an INTJ can.
- ... stuff already mentioned ...

INTJ's advantages:
- ENTJ's really talk before thinking and are just as blunt as we are. So even us INTJ's have a greater potential for tactfulness.
- ENTJ's are more 'dictatorial'. I usually see more solutions to reach a goal and don't give too much trouble giving in to a lesser solution if I see that the goal is reached in only a slightly less efficient way. The ENTJ would not give in and even disrupt the process if they don't go his way.
- INTJ's are better at self-improvement. ENTJ's seem to need more external feedback and stimulation to improve themselves.
- INTJ's are more focussed. An INTJ solves problems that arise during the execution of his vision, while the ENTJ solves problems that come across his path using his vision.

For balance, I've focussed a bit more on INTJ advantages ofcourse. :) You might just as well consider an ENTJ to be a subordinate to an INTJ as the other way around. More focus and a wider and longer-term vision are aspects that you'd expect in a higher level of leadership. The INTJ would set out the strategy and the ENTJ's would implement this.

[Santana28]

Really? I know three ENTJs and while I think they're all awesome people whom I respect a lot, there's nobody I know who can beat me at my own game like an ISTJ. My ENTJ friends and relatives usually end up cowering at my feet.
Ok, not really cowering. But they are usually pretty intimidated by me.
I'm not trying to say you're wrong about them, just that my experience has been different. :)

well, ive probably never really dealt with an ISTJ so i wouldnt be able to judge that :)

and i agree about the whole subordinate thing... INTJs and ENTJs work very well together because while the INTJ keeps the ENTJ motivated and on track, the ENTJ takes the reigns and makes it work, but only because the INTJ isn't as driven socially to flesh out their ideas and is perfectly happy to let someone else more capable do it (the ENTJ). just from my experience.

[ScottH]

I have a doubt/question somehow related to this topic. I wonder If anyone could tell me how a Intj-Entj boyf-girlf relationship would be. Him: INTJ (me), her: entj.

...

I'm an INTJ, my fiance' is an ENTJ.

To the general question, I'd say both have advantages over the other, given the right assumptions (in that regard, all types have advantages over all others; that's what makes us different!).

But, specifically, ENTJ's, when problem solving or planning, are more "pick and go" solution finders, whereas we I's tend to analyze more. I can plan far more effectively than her, but she makes decisions more quickly.

INTJs are more dependable leaders, IMO, because of their planning capability. I take longer to "take charge," preferring to be certain I'm right before asserting myself. She jumps right in.

We're working on a business together. I am great at seeing possibilities, both good and bad, whereas she tends to stay more practical. So, I can predict problems we'll encounter, but I can also stall our progress with unrealistic worries.

On the question about I/E pairing, I find her need to take charge irritates me because I generally know just what I'm doing and have a long plan for it all. She can lead me astray and make me feel I'm wasting time. But, as our relationship lengthens, I think she's gaining trust in my planning, and I'm gaining trust in her instincts, and the NTJ's that we share give us an otherwise very similar world view. It's nervana, man :-)

Oh... one more thing... she wants to spend EVERY MINUTE of every day together. I'm happy with that, but do need some time to myself from time to time, and she doesn't really understand that yet.

[errrzarrr]

Is good to know. Thx. Now I have one more question, how we could deal with that "dictatorial" or "need to take charge" trend they have that could overshadow us.

[ScottH]

Is good to know. Thx. Now I have one more question, how we could deal with that "dictatorial" or "need to take charge" trend they have that could overshadow us.

I wouldn't use the word "overshadow." Consider an example: you two are working on a project, say a "barn raising," with friends and family. She'll get the ball rolling right away and start getting things done. Within a short while, you'll probably start giving input that will end up making sure the ball goes the right place.

An example: my sister and brother-in-law were building a new fence around their back yard. My sister is an E, and very much a "take charge" person. But, she wanted her husband to have some help, so she called my father and I to assist.

We arrived, and they were about 1/4 of the way done. Carrie showed us both what we could start doing to be helpful, right away. But, while I was doing that, I started counting the boards on the completed portion of the fence, estimating what remained, then counted the boards left in the stack. Pretty soon, I chimed in asking "are you planning to buy more lumber?"

"No," she said. "Why?"

Before long, I was directing, because I had a plan and all the details figured out.

So, respect your ENTJ's take-charge attitude, and depend upon it. But expect her to respect your ways too. Be assertive. You'll grow to love that each other rocks that what the other is weak at.

[elsdfr]

I know of two male friends who are ENTJ.

Advantages would be socially. I wouldn't say they are perfect (the ones I know are kind of perverse) but once things are going they manage it all really well. I also find them confident within themselves which is a relief.

Disadvantages are perhaps while we've always just been very good friends there always seems to be a slight distrust yet respect between us. I kind of enjoy it but I see it eventually gets to them which doesn't end badly just an unspoken growl. Most other types wouldn't even bother.

Oh I also work with one and other than his willingness to handball everything he can't fix he's an excellent guy.

Someone mentioned ISTJs... argh.. I fell for one and have never felt so wrapped around someones finger and tried endless to get through. Their sensibility amazes me and they are really hard to rattle *sigh*

[Meyer]

I have a doubt/question somehow related to this topic. I wonder If anyone could tell me how a Intj-Entj boyf-girlf relationship would be. Him: INTJ (me), her: entj.

...

Whoever killed the other in their sleep first wins. J/k sounds like it could be one hell of a combination.

[Solaris]

I have a doubt/question somehow related to this topic. I wonder If anyone could tell me how a Intj-Entj boyf-girlf relationship would be. Him: INTJ (me), her: entj.

...

Well, I'm an ENTJ female, and I've known a bizarre number of INTJ males. My belief is that they go together well, for friendship and for more. As long as you stand up to her at times and help keep her motivated when her energy is down, I'd say you'll be ok.

[Santana28]

Oh... one more thing... she wants to spend EVERY MINUTE of every day together. I'm happy with that, but do need some time to myself from time to time, and she doesn't really understand that yet.

LOL... that is SO true, but also what i love about them! its the best feeling to know that someone values you that much ;)





Santana28 added to this post, 1 minutes and 38 seconds later...

I wouldn't say they are perfect (the ones I know are kind of perverse)

that too. but then again, so as i prefer to keep such things in my thoughts... he has no problem acting them out for us both ;) hehe

[elsdfr]

that too. but then again, so as i prefer to keep such things in my thoughts... he has no problem acting them out for us both ;) hehe

Yeah its a pitty I don't enjoy having my nipples grabbed by a male or by anyone for that matter.... or I'd be happy. :angry:

Plus thats only the start, some of the things I've seen and heard them do...lol. Which is probably why they get along with me as I'm pretty tolerant. Its one thing to think it but another to actually do it huh ;D

[Provoker]

Really? I know three ENTJs and while I think they're all awesome people whom I respect a lot, there's nobody I know who can beat me at my own game like an ISTJ. My ENTJ friends and relatives usually end up cowering at my feet.
Ok, not really cowering. But they are usually pretty intimidated by me.
I'm not trying to say you're wrong about them, just that my experience has been different. :)

Yes! These are the only types I find threatening. I find myself emotionally vulnerable to ENTJs as their mind is often working just as quick as ours but they will say things the moment they think it. They may be charismatic and charming one minute and sarcastic and cruel the next. They can manupulate the environment around them with their leadership skills, eye contact, etc. The ENTJ makes me feel emotionally cornered, the way a gay male does when he belches out a quick-witted and highly extraverted comment based on your appearance. The ISTJ I do not find emotionally threatening at all but somewhat intellectually threatening, as they are our counterparts to the whole other side of reality being an 'S'. Their observations, pattern recognition, and eye for detail while all the other variables are fixed makes them genuine in their own right. Whenever I am around an ISTJ it always seems like we're playing chess, as there is an enormous mutual respect for our differing paradigmatic approaches. I worked with an ISTJ this summer and it was very very interesting. I would describe him as being more mathematical while I was more analytical. He would always make very interesting observations, recognize unique patterns, was good at committing numbers to memory almost instantly. I was good at analyzing broader issues the company was facing between mgt and the union, what our team should do to establish greater efficieny and higher productivity, coming to logical proofs that are union dues aren't justified when the time we acquire union protection our seasonal employment will have expired. Stuff like that. He had a condescending demeanor as did I. It was pure chess, and a good overall experience.

[Rick]

My experience pretty much agrees with most of the assessments here.

ENTJs are the people who, as kids, liked to play "king or queen of the mountain".

I'm one of four supervisors at work. Two of the others are also introverts (MBTI unknown) while the fourth is an ENTJ. The ENTJ is also the youngest and least experienced of us.

From the time the ENTJ became a supervisor, he made it known to the rest of us that he was the "lead" supervisor. Me, being an INTJ, couldn't have cared less. I tend to ignore pompousness.

As others have mentioned about ENTJs, he is also the type to engage mouth before brain, embarrassing himself at times because he said something before thinking it through.

On the other hand, he is smart enough to realize when he needs to bounce ideas off people. The god complex has worn off somewhat, too, over time, and he had to be a realist to get to that point.

Objectively, I think ENTJs and INTJs could learn a lot from each other concerning coping skills. ENTJs should learn to think ideas thru before speaking, and INTJs could benefit from learning people skills from the ENTJs. Beyond that, we're quite a bit alike.

[Solaris]

My experience pretty much agrees with most of the assessments here.

ENTJs are the people who, as kids, liked to play "king or queen of the mountain".

I'm one of four supervisors at work. Two of the others are also introverts (MBTI unknown) while the fourth is an ENTJ. The ENTJ is also the youngest and least experienced of us.

From the time the ENTJ became a supervisor, he made it known to the rest of us that he was the "lead" supervisor. Me, being an INTJ, couldn't have cared less. I tend to ignore pompousness.

As others have mentioned about ENTJs, he is also the type to engage mouth before brain, embarrassing himself at times because he said something before thinking it through.

On the other hand, he is smart enough to realize when he needs to bounce ideas off people. The god complex has worn off somewhat, too, over time, and he had to be a realist to get to that point.

Objectively, I think ENTJs and INTJs could learn a lot from each other concerning coping skills. ENTJs should learn to think ideas thru before speaking, and INTJs could benefit from learning people skills from the ENTJs. Beyond that, we're quite a bit alike.


I think only glimpses of this kind of behavior were present in me growing up, as ENTJ is a type I grew into (shyness has nothing to do with extroversion, let me assure you). However, once I was comfortable with people, I would usually become rather stubborn and dominant.

Over the course of my 20s, I've realized that I never really thought things through. I do now and it helps the world make much more sense. However, it has the unpleasant side effect of making me notice emotions (not just my own either), and I'm still struggling with that.

If I were in a group of supervisors, I would only claim superiority if it were the case, or nobody was taking the lead. I oftentimes think that female ENTJs are slightly (just slightly) softer than male ENTJs -- but mainly because we aren't trying to be macho all the damn time. Or maybe it's just how I personally am.

[mind_wander]

Yes! These are the only types I find threatening. I find myself emotionally vulnerable to ENTJs as their mind is often working just as quick as ours but they will say things the moment they think it. They may be charismatic and charming one minute and sarcastic and cruel the next. They can manupulate the environment around them with their leadership skills, eye contact, etc. The ENTJ makes me feel emotionally cornered, the way a gay male does when he belches out a quick-witted and highly extraverted comment based on your appearance. The ISTJ I do not find emotionally threatening at all but somewhat intellectually threatening, as they are our counterparts to the whole other side of reality being an 'S'. Their observations, pattern recognition, and eye for detail while all the other variables are fixed makes them genuine in their own right. Whenever I am around an ISTJ it always seems like we're playing chess, as there is an enormous mutual respect for our differing paradigmatic approaches. I worked with an ISTJ this summer and it was very very interesting. I would describe him as being more mathematical while I was more analytical. He would always make very interesting observations, recognize unique patterns, was good at committing numbers to memory almost instantly. I was good at analyzing broader issues the company was facing between mgt and the union, what our team should do to establish greater efficieny and higher productivity, coming to logical proofs that are union dues aren't justified when the time we acquire union protection our seasonal employment will have expired. Stuff like that. He had a condescending demeanor as did I. It was pure chess, and a good overall experience.

yeah, it does make me feel like that too, we're like playing chess all the time. Sometimes, I don't do very much because, well there is no true compatible match. They can be intellectually threatening because they can easily know what your thinking, but can not get it out of their head. As for, an INTJs can easily get it out of our heads, fairly quickly. Its a very great counterpart to have too, actually both sides flexed the S/N, many number of times, when dealing with problems. However, end up with the same conclusions, although each sides are stilling looking at two different perspectives; yeah, I would be scared, too. If I would have to say, who wins or losses; its more like a stalemate. But, when INTJs uses its full N potential, then it will win. Is it hard to beat an ISTJ mind thinking? Yes it is, why? They kinda know what your thinking, so it beats the fun out of it, lol.





mind_wander added to this post, 2 minutes and 27 seconds later...

I think only glimpses of this kind of behavior were present in me growing up, as ENTJ is a type I grew into (shyness has nothing to do with extroversion, let me assure you). However, once I was comfortable with people, I would usually become rather stubborn and dominant.

Over the course of my 20s, I've realized that I never really thought things through. I do now and it helps the world make much more sense. However, it has the unpleasant side effect of making me notice emotions (not just my own either), and I'm still struggling with that.

If I were in a group of supervisors, I would only claim superiority if it were the case, or nobody was taking the lead. I oftentimes think that female ENTJs are slightly (just slightly) softer than male ENTJs -- but mainly because we aren't trying to be macho all the damn time. Or maybe it's just how I personally am.

I think, as times goes on, I would be reaching the stage of ENTJ, so its nice of you to share the ENTJs point of view. I know being INTJs has their advantages and disadvantages. I know I'm really quiet and people does not hear me alot when I speak out loud. But, I know inside me, trust me people you don't really want to know when I speak my mind out loud, lol.

[Paul V]

INTJs have a more developed Introverted Intuition, and ENTJs have a more developed Extroverted Thinking. INTJs will excel when Introverted Intuition is required, and ENTJs will do so when Extroverted Thinking is demanded. There's also the fact that being Extroverted is an advantage in our current western society. So ENTJs are slightly better off than INTJs. However, Introverted Intuition is often more useful than Extroverted Thinking, but that's just my opinion.

[Marmalade]

Really? I know three ENTJs and while I think they're all awesome people whom I respect a lot, there's nobody I know who can beat me at my own game like an ISTJ. My ENTJ friends and relatives usually end up cowering at my feet.
Ok, not really cowering. But they are usually pretty intimidated by me.
I'm not trying to say you're wrong about them, just that my experience has been different. :)

My dad is an ENTJ and my mom is an ISTJ.

As for my dad, I don't know how he interacts with INTJs. He is an extremely friendly guy and is always helping others. So, I wouldn't think he'd intentionally try to beat anybody at their own game.

My mom is fairly observant, but she can be thrown off by my dad's humor.

My dad may not be a typical ENTJ. He had a mid-life crisis in his early 40's and now he is retiring. He went through a period of intensely questioning his whole life and he seems to have developed his Introverted side to a fair degree. He has aspired towards Fi more as he has aged. Also, my dad has never been a macho type. He had a mid-life crisis partly because he couldn't take the aggressive ESTJ management atmosphere he was working in.

[Solaris]

My dad is an ENTJ and my mom is an ISTJ.

As for my dad, I don't know how he interacts with INTJs. He is an extremely friendly guy and is always helping others. So, I wouldn't think he'd intentionally try to beat anybody at their own game.

My mom is fairly observant, but she can be thrown off by my dad's humor.

My dad may not be a typical ENTJ. He had a mid-life crisis in his early 40's and now he is retiring. He went through a period of intensely questioning his whole life and he seems to have developed his Introverted side to a fair degree. He has aspired towards Fi more as he has aged. Also, my dad has never been a macho type. He had a mid-life crisis partly because he couldn't take the aggressive ESTJ management atmosphere he was working in.

I did a similar sort of thing when I ended a long-term relationship in which I was heavily invested, and had to reexamine my whole life. I was 27 at the time. I'm more of a helpful ENTJ with good intentions than a control-freak (I only want to control myself, not others). I like people, and want them to grow.

[Jgib5328]

INTJs have a more developed Introverted Intuition, and ENTJs have a more developed Extroverted Thinking. INTJs will excel when Introverted Intuition is required, and ENTJs will do so when Extroverted Thinking is demanded. There's also the fact that being Extroverted is an advantage in our current western society. So ENTJs are slightly better off than INTJs. However, Introverted Intuition is often more useful than Extroverted Thinking, but that's just my opinion.

Why is Introverted Intuition more useful than Extroverted Thinking?

[Santana28]

Why is Introverted Intuition more useful than Extroverted Thinking?

i would say because we are more able to learn things from a distance without actually having to get our hands dirty, whereas extroverted thinkers are more likely to test out their theories rather than learn from others' mistakes.

basically, it saves time. we reach conclusions a little faster and without getting as sidetracked as they do.

i think.

[Solaris]

i would say because we are more able to learn things from a distance without actually having to get our hands dirty, whereas extroverted thinkers are more likely to test out their theories rather than learn from others' mistakes.

basically, it saves time. we reach conclusions a little faster and without getting as sidetracked as they do.

i think.

I like testing out my theories. Then, I can come up with alternatives, or improvements, as I go along and find thing don't go as I planned. It's how I learn.

[Santana28]

I like testing out my theories. Then, I can come up with alternatives, or improvements, as I go along and find thing don't go as I planned. It's how I learn.

i'm the same way - i prefer to test things out myself, but i dont have to in order to learn. what i'm saying is that despite that, we are still capable from learning from other peoples' results... whereas some people are less capable of picking up on things unless they actually do them...

[Solaris]

i'm the same way - i prefer to test things out myself, but i dont have to in order to learn. what i'm saying is that despite that, we are still capable from learning from other peoples' results... whereas some people are less capable of picking up on things unless they actually do them...

It's starting to sound more like Se, not Ni. I can learn from other people's results (though I have an ESTJ friend who does *have* to do everything herself...even smelling a stinky plant when I already said it smelled terrible and pointed out which one it was). But when testing out my own theory, my desire to be in charge of my self and my ideas makes me want to do it myself.

[Santana28]

It's starting to sound more like Se, not Ni. I can learn from other people's results (though I have an ESTJ friend who does *have* to do everything herself...even smelling a stinky plant when I already said it smelled terrible and pointed out which one it was). But when testing out my own theory, my desire to be in charge of my self and my ideas makes me want to do it myself.

well, i'm probably 50/50 in that department which would explain why i'm able to do both ;)

[Jgib5328]

How I always personally thought of the ENTJs is that they have are capable of deep intuitive thought like us, but they have the ability to charm and socialize well with other people. I do however believe that we are capable of deeper and more complex thoughts, but we suffer from the lack of charm and social abilities.

But I don't know if this is right or not.

[Lucid]

It's starting to sound more like Se, not Ni. I can learn from other people's results (though I have an ESTJ friend who does *have* to do everything herself...even smelling a stinky plant when I already said it smelled terrible and pointed out which one it was). But when testing out my own theory, my desire to be in charge of my self and my ideas makes me want to do it myself.

That's funny, I have an ESTJ friend who's the same way.

How I always personally thought of the ENTJs is that they have are capable of deep intuitive thought like us, but they have the ability to charm and socialize well with other people. I do however believe that we are capable of deeper and more complex thoughts, but we suffer from the lack of charm and social abilities.

Speak for yourself! :) I can charm the pants off people when I want to.

[Jgib5328]

That's funny, I have an ESTJ friend who's the same way.



Speak for yourself! :) I can charm the pants off people when I want to.

So can I, it's just that ENTJs are more natural at it and have an easier time with it.

[Santana28]

How I always personally thought of the ENTJs is that they have are capable of deep intuitive thought like us, but they have the ability to charm and socialize well with other people. I do however believe that we are capable of deeper and more complex thoughts, but we suffer from the lack of charm and social abilities.

But I don't know if this is right or not.

thats true... i think they are better able to measure and respond to social feedback, whereas i would be clueless until i had time to look at the big picture after the fact.

my ENTJ friend almost NEVER says the "wrong" thing or mixes his words, regardless of the situation... however i stumble through everything that hasnt been pre-scripted, and usually have all those "eureka! i should have said THAT instead!" moments later on.

[Lucid]

So can I, it's just that ENTJs are more natural at it and have an easier time with it.

Yeah, I do see your point. I think Santana has it right.

[Solaris]

thats true... i think they are better able to measure and respond to social feedback, whereas i would be clueless until i had time to look at the big picture after the fact.

my ENTJ friend almost NEVER says the "wrong" thing or mixes his words, regardless of the situation... however i stumble through everything that hasnt been pre-scripted, and usually have all those "eureka! i should have said THAT instead!" moments later on.

While I can say I rarely say the "wrong" thing, I can't say the "exact right thing" in the way, say, an ESFP could either. I am just more comfortable speaking out my thoughts, but in a way that they can be accepted by others (when I want to, other times, I don't care).

[Paul V]

Why is Introverted Intuition more useful than Extroverted Thinking?

Introverted Intuition basically gives you the answer you need in an epiphany, and that is more useful when you don't have the time to think things through.

Extroverted Thinking follows a procedure to analyze a particular situation, which will yield useful results to that particular situation, but it takes longer for you to reach those results.

[Flamethrower]

I'm an INTJ, my fiance' is an ENTJ.

...specifically, ENTJ's, when problem solving or planning, are more "pick and go" solution finders, whereas we I's tend to analyze more. I can plan far more effectively than her, but she makes decisions more quickly.

I have a similar situation with my INTJ partner. We both have businesses. When planning for my business I seem to do a lot of my thinking externally out loud and immediately the moment I have the idea (and I usually get really passionate about it at the same time). With him all his planning takes longer and is done in private. I often annoy the hell out of him in the evenings when he has finished his day at work and is watching the television by wanting to talk about my latest business idea with great enthusiam. I seem to have endless energy for business and have a real impatience about talking about it with someone else. I usually want to have my ideas out in the open as soon as possible to test them on other business owners I respect to see what flaws or good points the idea may have. I am basically looking for someone to pull it to pieces for me so I can see how it can be improved. My partner generally is much more reserved about sharing his business ideas and never runs business stuff by me to test it out. He tends to incubate it in his head instead.

Also success in his business seems to progress in a stable and slower rate (and more quietly). For me any successes seem to happen suddenly and quickly and I am more likely to tell the whole world about it. I basically never shut up about business stuff.

I oftentimes think that female ENTJs are slightly (just slightly) softer than male ENTJs -- but mainly because we aren't trying to be macho all the damn time. Or maybe it's just how I personally am.

I have to admit even though I am female (and don't have the macho thing) I will push myself to compete on the same level as the guys.

I'm more of a helpful ENTJ with good intentions than a control-freak (I only want to control myself, not others). I like people, and want them to grow.

Yes, me too. ;D

[Solaris]

I have to admit even though I am female (and don't have the macho thing) I will push myself to compete on the same level as the guys.


Most jobs and serious hobbies I have had are ones traditionally dominated by men. Do I compete with them? Oh hell yes!

I get annoyed with myself that I can no longer outrun my male running partner. I have to remind myself that if I want to beat him, I will have to train harder and smarter -- there's a reason why sports has men's and women's records. I hate it, but it's true.

[Ace1337]

My first two tests have shown ENTJ, the last two have shown INTJ but borderline with E. I think I am an ENTJ naturally but mild depression and insecureness have lead me to show up introverted on the test. I think I can tell you a lot about ENTJ-INTJ differences. The biggest difference from what I've seen would be that ENTJs need feedback from other people for their ideas, they form an idea and then they need a group of people to tell them what's wrong with it. Another difference is that they argue a lot more than INTJs. They learn best trough conflicts. Most types try to avoid conflicts as much as possible but ENTJs love them, and they are really hard to offend in arguments, almost impossible. You can bury them with arguments and embarrass them by defeating them, but they'll respect you even more after that. They also have this instinct that INTJs don't have for knowing what people want to hear, they can talk to 5 people and still know what everyone of them thinks about the subject and what they can learn from everyone of them. They can also very easily predict what someone would say. They are also much faster at decision making which makes people follow them, because they react so well in crisis situations. INTJs are better decision makers, but only if they have time to analyze everything. Think of it this way, 5 people are on a rope bridge, two children, a mother, a really fat guy and an ENTJ. The rope is slowly falling apart. The ENTJ will push the fat guy off the bridge without hesitation. An INTJ would have probably tried to think of a way to save all of the people, and they would have probably all gone down the cliff.

Jesus what a huge post. Well that's a another chance for you to learn more about ENTJs cause this was written by one. You'll probably notice a lot of flaws in my ideas but writing isn't the best way of communication for an ENTJ. INTJs are much better at writing and reading.

EDIT: In spite of all these differences these two types are very similar.
INTJ - Ni, Te, Fi, Se
ENTJ - Te, Ni, Se, Fi

[BlackHawk]

I am surrounded by ENTJs, so I'll try to add what I can.

ENTJ Advantages:
-better at dealing with large numbers of subordinates
-does not get exhausted by idiocy of subordinates
-will enact plans with no thought of failure
-will discipline more adeptly

INTJ Advantages:
-better visionary, sees the big picture in the far future much better
-more open to ideas and options
-can visualize outcomes of scenarios and choose accordingly, tremendously accurate at decision making
-calmer under stress

Dynamics:

I have lots of leadership experience with ENTJs, and have noticed some interesting things. When an INTJ and ENTJ are co-leaders, an interesting and nearly invincible dynamic results. Under most circumstances, the INTJ will be the one with vision, seeing what needs to be done and the best way to do it. The ENTJ will be the one to organize the rabble and direct it towards the goal. Usually the ENTJ is the one making all the little decisions that are necessary to keep things running smoothly, while the INTJ is the one making the decisions that control the entire direction and success of the effort. If this situation were an INTJ and ENTJ in a car driving down the highway, the ENTJ would be deciding where and when to stop for gas, while the INTJ would choose which highway and routes they were going to take.
The two types lead and work together so well because the ENTJ shields the INTJ from all the tiny details and idiotic or unnecessary questions, while the INTJ makes sure that the ENTJ's go-get-um attitude is pointing the best way. So the INTJ is never tired, while the ENTJ is never lost. Perfect.

An ENTJ leading alone is more variable. In my experience, ENTJs as leaders are great at disciplining a group and getting it moving. The huge exception to this is that ENTJs can not tolerate any free-thinking in the group. They will seem very dictatorial, especially to Ns, because they demand that their subordinates are, well, subordinate. ENTJs aren't good at letting an INTJ go lone ranger, and thus may cause resentment among certain followers. My personal view is that ENTJs are very suppressive of other possibilities, and I hate being led by them. I just like leading with them.
To sum it up: If you need a great, strong leader for a large group, especially one consisting mostly of Ss, choose an ENTJ.

An INTJ leading alone is usually going to be better at achieving a long-range goal with a smaller group. INTJs usually gain greater respect from their subordinates because of their willingness to tolerate anything, so long as it is helpful to the achievement of the goal. INTJs might tick off F types, but when they get some NTs behind them, they are entirely unstoppable in near-perfect achievement and will have fanatically loyal followers.
INTJs are far less capable than ENTJs when dealing with a large group. The greater needs of discipline and guidance of the bigger group tire the INTJ much faster and will quickly negate the superior visionary and decision making of the INTJ.

[Solaris]

I am surrounded by ENTJs, so I'll try to add what I can.

You are so completely wrong, I hardly know where to start. I think the quickest solution to your problem is that you have mistaken ENTJs for ESTJs. Second, are these many ENTJs you claim to be drowning in confirmed, or are you guessing? Again, I believe you have mistaken ESTJ for ENTJ.

I don't know what descriptions you have been reading, but none of them identify details and patience with ignorant subordinates as traits of the type. I've read up a lot on the ENTJ type, seeing as how I am one. Even before reading, I knew those things were not my strengths.

Lastly, you stop for gas when you need it. That kind of BS detail does not need to be planned out. No ENTJ is going to waste time planning out such a minute detail. The route, and its overall efficiency matter much more (unless being scenic was the point of the driving route....but still you just get gas when you need it).

Go read before you go around spouting off like that.

[Flamethrower]

Most jobs and serious hobbies I have had are ones traditionally dominated by men. Do I compete with them? Oh hell yes!

I get annoyed with myself that I can no longer outrun my male running partner. I have to remind myself that if I want to beat him, I will have to train harder and smarter -- there's a reason why sports has men's and women's records. I hate it, but it's true.

Just been for a walk with my INTJ husband. I of course had to be the first one home! I sprinted up a hill to beat him. He didn't even realise it was a race. :thumbsup:

When I play tennis with my ENTJ friend (a guy) we just about kill each other competing. It's great fun. I love it.





Flamethrower added to this post, 25 minutes and 36 seconds later...

The biggest difference from what I've seen would be that ENTJs need feedback from other people for their ideas, they form an idea and then they need a group of people to tell them what's wrong with it.

Yeah, I like getting an honest opinion from people about an idea of mine. I really respect people who will be brutally honest and not just say it is good to make me happy.

...you have mistaken ENTJs for ESTJs.

Yes, I think this is an easy mistake for anyone to make. ENTJs are definitely not ESTJs. I enjoy working with ENTJs immensely and admire their leadership but I have often disliked an ESTJ leader in organizations I have worked in because a couple have turned out to be bullies with their own agenda, no vision and no real people skills. Those ESTJs seemed more harsh than the ENTJs I've met. ENTJs always seem to want to lead by being fair.

[Solaris]

Yeah, I like getting an honest opinion from people about an idea of mine. I really respect people who will be brutally honest and not just say it is good to make me happy.


I do this as well. I did mean to point out that I think this point is one of the few things Ace got right about ENTJs.

Flamethrower, the rest of your post made me laugh. It sounds fairly familiar. I think I race people a lot when they aren't aware we are racing.

[Flamethrower]

Flamethrower, the rest of your post made me laugh. It sounds fairly familiar. I think I race people a lot when they aren't aware we are racing.

Hehe! It's even funnier when two ENTJs are competing with each other. My ENTJ friend gave me some lessons on how to play tennis so I could play him. He taught me this really excellent serve and I just copied him exactly. Then I spent the whole week before our next game practising every single day for hours so I could try to win a game with him. People were coming up to me and asking me to teach them the serve and were really surprised when I told them I had only learnt it a few days earlier.

I never played sport much when I was a kid (did ballet instead for about 10 years) but now when I do I find I am really competitive, learn really fast and will practise relentlessly without any trouble.

[BlackHawk]

You are so completely wrong, I hardly know where to start. I think the quickest solution to your problem is that you have mistaken ENTJs for ESTJs. Second, are these many ENTJs you claim to be drowning in confirmed, or are you guessing? Again, I believe you have mistaken ESTJ for ENTJ.

They are all confirmed.

Lastly, you stop for gas when you need it. That kind of BS detail does not need to be planned out. No ENTJ is going to waste time planning out such a minute detail. The route, and its overall efficiency matter much more (unless being scenic was the point of the driving route....but still you just get gas when you need it).

In all my experience with ENTJs, only one was a long-range visionary. All the rest would see a goal, assemble a group, and plunge into the problem, often losing sight of the goal during its progress.

Go read before you go around spouting off like that.

I was attempting to bring more than the generic type profiles into this discussion when I made my post. If my experience with ENTJs is so abnormal, using your "reading" to define normal, then feel free to ignore the post.

[Vicimdhar]

They are all confirmed.
'Confirmed' doesn't say much. An ESTJ-colleague of mine tested and believes himself to be INTJ. An ENFP and an ESTP-colleague tested as ENTJ. ESTJ's have tertiary Ne, so it's possible for them to identify with N. Your descriptions do sound much more ESTJ-like.

[cal]

From Wikibooks:'

ENTJs on relationships: Hope he/she likes you.

How to deal with an ENTJ: Hope he/she likes you.

-------------

The people I've gravitated to mostly, as longer term acquaintances and friends, seem to be ENTJs. One thing I've noticed about them is that, especially with those who are firmly ENTJ (not so much ENTJ 'lites'), the 'ENTJ trademark' does seem to apply: "I'm sorry, but you have to die."
They seem willing to 'sacrifice' people around them, if they get in an ENTJs way regarding something they really want/really want to accomplish. I ran this by a couple of ENTJs I know, and they laughed and agreed.

I'll let them lead, if the situation is 'right' for their type of leadership. If they don't prove up to handling it well enough, then I'll step in and either 'co-lead', or go at things my way, and let them either follow the direction I've determined makes the most sense, or not follow it.

[Flamethrower]

The people I've gravitated to mostly, as longer term acquaintances and friends, seem to be ENTJs. One thing I've noticed about them is that, especially with those who are firmly ENTJ (not so much ENTJ 'lites'), the 'ENTJ trademark' does seem to apply: "I'm sorry, but you have to die."
They seem willing to 'sacrifice' people around them, if they get in an ENTJs way regarding something they really want/really want to accomplish. I ran this by a couple of ENTJs I know, and they laughed and agreed.

Even though I would have to describe myself as an "ENTJ Lite" (ha ha that is a great way to put it for me) I can relate to that somewhat. I am very very tolerant of people. But if someone continually pushes their luck with me (for instance being a difficult pain in the arse, or rude) I can get to a point where suddenly a line appears and I have no trouble ruthlessly cutting them off completely and never looking back. It only happens extremely rarely and usually because they are complete arseholes who conflict with my sense of fairness (ESTJ types often) or because they are excessively irrational, unpredictable people who I feel are simply wasting my time and therefore we get no real value out of interacting with each other. (Actually dumped one of my own clients recently because of this - I am sure people would say that is a strange business move but they were seriously lacking in level-headedness and completely disrupting and I needed to get some sense of order back).

Also I can also be very single minded about wanting to acheive a goal and if other people's plans around me are conflicting the ruthlessness can come out in ways that surprise even me. I have been aware for a long time that if my partner decided he wanted to go live in another country for instance and it conflicted with any projects I was committed to I would probably have no problem staying put. That sounds horrible doesn't it! But it's true. I have also noticed this in ENTJ friends who are willing to make sacrifices to get to where they are going. And maybe I should stress that it takes ruthlessness with yourself to make sacrifices - not just "sacrificing people" so to speak.

[Solaris]

From Wikibooks:'

ENTJs on relationships: Hope he/she likes you.

How to deal with an ENTJ: Hope he/she likes you.

-------------

The people I've gravitated to mostly, as longer term acquaintances and friends, seem to be ENTJs. One thing I've noticed about them is that, especially with those who are firmly ENTJ (not so much ENTJ 'lites'), the 'ENTJ trademark' does seem to apply: "I'm sorry, but you have to die."
They seem willing to 'sacrifice' people around them, if they get in an ENTJs way regarding something they really want/really want to accomplish. I ran this by a couple of ENTJs I know, and they laughed and agreed.

I'll let them lead, if the situation is 'right' for their type of leadership. If they don't prove up to handling it well enough, then I'll step in and either 'co-lead', or go at things my way, and let them either follow the direction I've determined makes the most sense, or not follow it.

I will sacrifice and discard people, that is true (sad sometimes I suppose). Those disposable people are usually....well, disposable anyway.





Solaris added to this post, 3 minutes and 54 seconds later...

Even though I would have to describe myself as an "ENTJ Lite" (ha ha that is a great way to put it for me) I can relate to that somewhat. I am very very tolerant of people. But if someone continually pushes their luck with me (for instance being a difficult pain in the arse, or rude) I can get to a point where suddenly a line appears and I have no trouble ruthlessly cutting them off completely and never looking back. It only happens extremely rarely and usually because they are complete arseholes who conflict with my sense of fairness (ESTJ types often) or because they are excessively irrational, unpredictable people who I feel are simply wasting my time and therefore we get no real value out of interacting with each other. (Actually dumped one of my own clients recently because of this - I am sure people would say that is a strange business move but they were seriously lacking in level-headedness and completely disrupting and I needed to get some sense of order back).

Also I can also be very single minded about wanting to acheive a goal and if other people's plans around me are conflicting the ruthlessness can come out in ways that surprise even me. I have been aware for a long time that if my partner decided he wanted to go live in another country for instance and it conflicted with any projects I was committed to I would probably have no problem staying put. That sounds horrible doesn't it! But it's true. I have also noticed this in ENTJ friends who are willing to make sacrifices to get to where they are going. And maybe I should stress that it takes ruthlessness with yourself to make sacrifices - not just "sacrificing people" so to speak.

Seconded. I have a long fuse with people, but once the line is crossed, there really isn't any going back. I am equal opportunity with that -- friends, family, coworkers, it doesn't matter. People are people, and I am either with them or against them. There is no real in-between with me, unless I am just getting to know you.

Flamethrower, do you find yourself with a lot of "all or nothing" tendencies? I am not ambivalent or ambiguous about many things.

[Flamethrower]

I will sacrifice and discard people, that is true (sad sometimes I suppose). Those disposable people are usually....well, disposable anyway.

Oh phew! Someone who feels the same. Don't feel like such a monster for posting that now :laugh:.

[Solaris]

Oh phew! Someone who feels the same. Don't feel like such a monster for posting that now :laugh:.


Is it bad that I've never felt like a monster for being that way? I've recognized that society at large may interpret my ability to do this negatively, but never really cared it they did. It serves me, not them. (again, I am either with people, or against them...I will serve my own needs first, except in my closer relationships, then loyalty can cause me to make large and unusual self-sacrifices, much to my frustration)

[Flamethrower]

Seconded. I have a long fuse with people, but once the line is crossed, there really isn't any going back. I am equal opportunity with that -- friends, family, coworkers, it doesn't matter. People are people, and I am either with them or against them. There is no real in-between with me, unless I am just getting to know you.

Flamethrower, do you find yourself with a lot of "all or nothing" tendencies? I am not ambivalent or ambiguous about many things.

Ah yes. The long fuse! So true. Actually my anger is the same. Very tolerant. I am always especially tolerant of people who can back up what they are saying in any arguement with a well thought out explanation. But can become irritated by people who are lazy, incompetent, petty, irrational etc. People like that can push and push and push and I will stand up to it calmly but finally I will get to a point where my patience is pushed too far and I think they are just being stupid or rude and then I become brutally honest. My anger with people is always very focused, blunt and straight to the point and only lasts for an instant. But it is unusual for me to lose it with people. It's a last measure thing and only happens when I feel it is absolutely justified and fair. And also I have to feel that I am in complete control of what I am saying. Saying something I didn't mean doesn't really happen with me so I can never use the "sorry I didn't really mean it" apology later! What I say is intended only to be used constuctively to rectify a situation too, not to hurt people. And like you I treat all people the same regardless of "status". I am not intimidated by anyone.

Yes, I am very much all or nothing. Especially with people. Luckily I get on with people very easily and don't have any enemies. I am like this with my friendships. You are either my friend or you are not and I am very loyal if you are. I can't stand people who are disloyal and unreliable. And I definitely prefer having a clear sense of direction. If I don't and become ambivalent or indecisive I can become really depressed as a result until I get back on track.





Flamethrower added to this post, 4 minutes and 45 seconds later...

Is it bad that I've never felt like a monster for being that way?

Actually I don't really feel bad either. But I know it's something that can be misunderstood by people and I generally never talk about this sort of thing except with other ENTJs who see things the same way.

[Solaris]

Ah yes. The long fuse! So true. Actually my anger is the same. Very tolerant. I am always especially tolerant of people who can back up what they are saying in any arguement with a well thought out explanation. But can become irritated by people who are lazy, incompetent, petty, irrational etc. People like that can push and push and push and I will stand up to it calmly but finally I will get to a point where my patience is pushed too far and I think they are just being stupid or rude and then I become brutally honest. My anger with people is always very focused, blunt and straight to the point and only lasts for an instant. But it is unusual for me to lose it with people. It's a last measure thing and only happens when I feel it is absolutely justified and fair. And also I have to feel that I am in complete control of what I am saying. Saying something I didn't mean doesn't really happen with me so I can never use the "sorry I didn't really mean it" apology later! What I say is intended only to be used constuctively to rectify a situation too, not to hurt people. And like you I treat all people the same regardless of "status". I am not intimidated by anyone.

Yes, I am very much all or nothing. Especially with people. Luckily I get on with people very easily and don't have any enemies. I am like this with my friendships. You are either my friend or you are not and I am very loyal if you are. I can't stand people who are disloyal and unreliable. And I definitely prefer having a clear sense of direction. If I don't and become ambivalent or indecisive I can become really depressed as a result until I get back on track.





Flamethrower added to this post, 4 minutes and 45 seconds later...



Actually I don't really feel bad either. But I know it's something that can be misunderstood by people and I generally never talk about this sort of thing except with other ENTJs who see things the same way.

I think my temper might come up a bit more than yours, but otherwise very similar. I'll blame that on my red hair and Irish/German/French-Canadian genes.

I absolutely cannot tolerate disloyalty (which is something different than betrayal to me). Also, I abhor people being anything less than genuine and authentically themselves. I am tolerate of quite a bit when I know that's just how a person really is.

I have little patience with stupidity and ignorance if I get the idea that it's willful or out of laziness.

[Flamethrower]

I think my temper might come up a bit more than yours, but otherwise very similar. I'll blame that on my red hair and Irish/German/French-Canadian genes.

Ha! Weird. I am also a redhead, have celtic genes and speak German (and there is some evidence of Germans in the family tree). :thumbsup: I was more fired up as a child actually and much quicker to lose my temper. Mostly because of impatience and often when I was trying to learn something. I am calmer now mainly because I hate the idea of being out of control.

[Solaris]

Ha! Weird. I am also a redhead, have celtic genes and speak German (and there is some evidence of Germans in the family tree). :thumbsup: I was more fired up as a child actually and much quicker to lose my temper. Mostly because of impatience and often when I was trying to learn something. I am calmer now mainly because I hate the idea of being out of control.

Weeiirrd! But neat! Yes, I also was much less able to control my temper as a child. I don't lose my temper often now, but it's terrible when I do. It's like a switch gets flipped somewhere, and WHAM!:suspicious:

[UziSpray]

From Wikibooks:'
The people I've gravitated to mostly, as longer term acquaintances and friends, seem to be ENTJs. One thing I've noticed about them is that, especially with those who are firmly ENTJ (not so much ENTJ 'lites'), the 'ENTJ trademark' does seem to apply: "I'm sorry, but you have to die."
They seem willing to 'sacrifice' people around them, if they get in an ENTJs way regarding something they really want/really want to accomplish. I ran this by a couple of ENTJs I know, and they laughed and agreed.


I am a strong ENTJ (90s mostly) and I agree with this statement.

[cal]

Oh phew! Someone who feels the same. Don't feel like such a monster for posting that now :laugh:.

Well, what about me. I like you people, enough to make you friends and acquaintances, and Hannibal Lecter is supposed to be someone us INTJs are to look to as a role model.

I respect your honesty, and those other ENTJs who posted in the affirmative. I don't see it as something to feel monster-ish about. It's the way you ENTJs seem to be wired, as are us INTJs the way we seem to be wired (which does make me wonder a bit, though, about how independent we really are, if our behaviour seems to follow some biological programming quite well). As long as we warn others in advance of what we're going to do to them, we should be allowed a clear conscience.

[Solaris]

Well, what about me. I like you people, enough to make you friends and acquaintances, and Hannibal Lecter is supposed to be someone us INTJs are to look to as a role model.

I respect your honesty, and those other ENTJs who posted in the affirmative. I don't see it as something to feel monster-ish about. It's the way you ENTJs seem to be wired, as are us INTJs the way we seem to be wired (which does make me wonder a bit, though, about how independent we really are, if our behaviour seems to follow some biological programming quite well). As long as we warn others in advance of what we're going to do to them, we should be allowed a clear conscience.

:thumbsup:
This is why I like INTJs so much. You are, generally, very accepting of my quirks, and rationalize them in the same way I would/do.

[v2B2]

In terms of leadership style, IN-- works well in a consultant/counsellor capacity and EN-- works well in a field marshall/teacher (to a group) capacity.

ENTJ people work well with an INTJ person to keep them on track and make sure less obvious, but important areas are not overlooked. INT-s are the masterminds behind the figureheads - who are not necessarily ENTJs (INTJs are really important especially when the leader is not -NT- type. Well, what do figureheads do anyway?).

Problem with being an IN-- person is that we are not as comfortable at rallying up the team (and INTPs are even worse at that), but ENTJs are very comfortable with that (though their problem is that as E-TJs, they can be a bit insensitive).

[cal]

:thumbsup:
This is why I like INTJs so much. You are, generally, very accepting of my quirks, and rationalize them in the same way I would/do.

Thanks, Solaris. I'm glad you say "generally". Watch for the INTJ who feels they've been betrayed, especially badly betrayed, by being 'sacrificed' (I've been there myself, before I got 'enlightened'). As one INTJ stated in his point of view, "We do not betray, and we do not tolerate betrayal in others".

[spittingvenom]

INTJ plus ENTJ makes an impressive team. We coordinate well on accomplishing any goal. Mastermind and Fieldmarshall can be an intimidating duo. The intj has the ideas, forthought, the ENTJ has a great ability to orchestrate intj ideas. Plus, they have that similar wicked sense of humor.....and tend to be great lovers (in my experience).

[Claptonian]

My mother and sister are both ENTJ's, and though they're much, much better at socializing and building connections with people than I am, I find they're absolutely horrible at dealing with problems in serious relationships. When they get in an argument with their significant others, they absolutely flip out. They become loud, vulgar and hateful. I get extremely frustrated whenever I witness it, because it makes no sense to me. Screaming and cursing at someone is not an efficient way to get them to admit they're wrong.

Is this trait common in ENTJ's, or is it just my family? It's as if when a deeply personal argument comes up, their rationality goes straight out the window.

[Solaris]

My mother and sister are both ENTJ's, and though they're much, much better at socializing and building connections with people than I am, I find they're absolutely horrible at dealing with problems in serious relationships. When they get in an argument with their significant others, they absolutely flip out. They become loud, vulgar and hateful. I get extremely frustrated whenever I witness it, because it makes no sense to me. Screaming and cursing at someone is not an efficient way to get them to admit they're wrong.

Is this trait common in ENTJ's, or is it just my family? It's as if when a deeply personal argument comes up, their rationality goes straight out the window.

Well, if they are anything like me, it's like this: We are generally comfortable with conflict, but when it's an emotional conflict, we don't know what to do. It's next to impossible to really rationalize emotions, so we bottle it up until we explode. When I am reallly at the edge though, I become very quiet and serious. That side of me frightens people more than any sort of yelling, which is usually just the result of frustration. Combine this with our extraverted thinking (Te) and you can see why so many things come out of our mouths in an argument.

[TheLastMohican]

Screaming and cursing at someone is not an efficient way to get them to admit they're wrong.


That might not even be the idea. In my experience, the screaming and cursing serves to drown out the sound of me proving them wrong.

[Claptonian]

That might not even be the idea. In my experience, the screaming and cursing serves to drown out the sound of me proving them wrong.

Nah. My mother and sister are always certain that they're right. Quite often they are right, which is why it frustrates me when they flip out, because it only make them look like they're wrong.

I was once in a friendly philosophical debate with a friend of mine and my sister decided to join in and take my side. This the worst thing that can possibly happen; suddenly any hope of explaining my position goes out the window as my sister goes on the offensive, turning my friend closed-minded and defensive.

Maybe this is what happens when the ENTJ's sense of competition and need to dominate turns emotional?

[FreDahl]

Since a picture states more than a thousand words (and the iN- types are great at picking up and playing with a great amount of unconcious imagery);

Imagine som inter-fiction or not "clash of the megalomanias" (choose your own setting/outcome)

Intj/Entj

Michael Corleone/Patrick Bateman
Hannibal Lecter/Ricky Gervais and Ben Stiller (who's the victim?)
Keyser Soze/Tigger (who's having more fun?)
Vladimir Putin/Napoleon (zeitgeist OC, no WMD)
Saruman the White/Darth Vader
Absinth/Jägermeister
Magus/Rex
Asshole/Fist
A good solidier sleeps when he can/ when he's done talking to the tired good solidier
-----
Now Re-accessing -Te... and it tells me to apologize for leaving out the ladies in the type-assosiation section. Also, some of you might have cancer, so... sorry.
... well, i am now. I'm sorry for writing cancer two times in my post.

I can certaintly (three times) find myself impressed with the internal calmness of my
mastermind friends. It seem to me that you guys have a hard time loosing yourself in this world of extroverted chaos. Static and safe. You continiually update your countless principles for behaving in extroverted settings, and act on those according to the society and it's people at large. Slowly but steadily climbing on the pre-known, seizing long-term oppurtunities. I feel relaxed around my intj friends. But the three of them are quite different; One is honest, reliable, logical, compationate (But he's honesty gets in the way of his social oppurtunist part) nr.two is dreamy and fantastic, internal and childish. Three is saving, proffesional, internal, has a more perverted sense of humour and leadership potential.
As for me... Im not kidding when i say; great social skills with good contact with the psycological realm. My timing for use of feeling in moments are superb. I can create an aura of invincibility around myself and everybody wants to know me. But im more lost than ever.. hehe. fuck in the ass. Im an ARCHTYPE of the ENTJ.. I even look like one for godsake. Yet, internally.... I keep way too many secrets. A network of interconnected secrets. increasing exponentially like an ass. So everytime you see a ENTJ with the apparent confidence of a lesser deity, do me favour and tell him he's got asscancer.. in the ass. (four times)

wellwellwell, buhuhu, look at that. 3 hours of wasted fucking time, thank you very much.

[D for Demure]

Two of my best friends are ENTJ's. I think we make a good team. Entj's are more outspoken, more verbal leaders. INTJ's lead by example. Often my entj friends will ask for my opinion, or advice, because they respect my strategic and creative ability, which i think is more developed. I often ask them about how they would put a thought into words, because they have greater verbal ability. I often have trouble putting things into words, which makes conversations with entj's very enjoyable, because they can follow my train of thought and put it into words. Likewise, i can see where they are coming from, and can give insight and depth to ideas in which they seem to have trouble going deeper on. Most ENTJ's have confident attitude, much like INtjs. Both of us have a lack of patience for the inferior, and therefore, gain a mutual respect due to the high standards we both have.

Overall, we complement each other, and make a formidable team.

[Antares]

You make it sound like we are just support to the ENTJs, like we are some kind of passive subordinates. That's what I hate. That's how I've been seeing the INTJ & ENTJ relationships. The ENTJs take leadership, while the INTJs are the subordinates or help support the ENTJ. That's kinda what most of you are making it sound like and the descriptions I read comparing the two. What I basically understand is that the ENTJs will have an easier time reaching greater external success in most contexts, while the INTJs reach greater internal success. That's pretty much the reason I asked this question, is because I want the statement proved wrong.
Exactly. I've known too many ENTJs who try to control the group and steer the direction. I'm usually one of the quiet, collected and composed members doing things my own way; because I'd have made sure I'd gotten my way with the ENTJ first. I refuse to be a follower; rather a lone ranger. I'm in it when I get something from it, I'm not in it if it runs out of benefits. The ENTJ has no power over me; I've figured out a way out before even joining the group. Reminds me of George Washington's "entangling alliances with none". (Man oh man. APUSH is eating my soul. I quoted materials from it twice today, both in quite irrelevant posts)

[Flamethrower]

Two of my best friends are ENTJ's. I think we make a good team. Entj's are more outspoken, more verbal leaders. INTJ's lead by example. Often my entj friends will ask for my opinion, or advice, because they respect my strategic and creative ability, which i think is more developed. I often ask them about how they would put a thought into words, because they have greater verbal ability.

This is true for me and my ENTJ friend. Every time we are together I find I have to talk more because he talks incessantly and so easily. He seems to have unending energy and sometimes I have to ask him to be quiet because my head is full of words! And he is way louder and talks much faster without having to stop and think what he is going to say next. I can explain the things he's talking about back to him with greater depth though.

It seem to me that you guys have a hard time loosing yourself in this world of extroverted chaos.

Yes, we have to make an effort to be part of it. And it is boring and tiring. My extraverted friends always remark about my calm level-headedness (although they mistake my friendliness and apparent confidence as extraversion!)

[elsdfr]

Hello something random I'd like to dribble about... two male friends who I thought might test as INTJ tested as ENTJ to my surprise their E was quite high yet I think they are quieter than I am and they don't seem to have the need to control things. Perhaps they where miss typed as another ENTJ i know is very much like the description.

So I guess what I'm saying is just because they are E doesn't mean they are loud and controlling (hmm not so surprising I guess). I would consider myself a tad louder than those two when amongst friends. One thing that counts against my limited E issue with them is the fact that they are both Managers in the workplace and they love it whereas I would hate to have to do it and probably avoid at all costs. So maybe thats the difference. Hmm yes, so they are quiet socially and happy to manage but this might be due to group dynamics as there are two other louder ENTJs and two ENFPs and we know how they can be! Oh and two supposed ENTJs are very intelligent so perhaps that makes it a bit harder as they have perhaps learnt to go about their controlling ways in a less in your face manner.

Ah hah I love pop psych!

[intellael]

Two of my best friends are ENTJ's. I think we make a good team. Entj's are more outspoken, more verbal leaders. INTJ's lead by example. Often my entj friends will ask for my opinion, or advice, because they respect my strategic and creative ability, which i think is more developed. I often ask them about how they would put a thought into words, because they have greater verbal ability. I often have trouble putting things into words, which makes conversations with entj's very enjoyable, because they can follow my train of thought and put it into words. Likewise, i can see where they are coming from, and can give insight and depth to ideas in which they seem to have trouble going deeper on. Most ENTJ's have confident attitude, much like INtjs. Both of us have a lack of patience for the inferior, and therefore, gain a mutual respect due to the high standards we both have.

Overall, we complement each other, and make a formidable team.

Exactly...

It is the same way with my ENTJ friend.

She is quicker to speak. I am more insightful. Often we reach similar conclusions. She just has more aggressive tendencies than I. We are equally as resolute(stubborn) but will logically review our positions during a productive debate. When we conclude to disagree then...nothing. Life goes on. I have not experienced any power struggles with them. It is definitely a formidable team.

The ENTJ males I have dated have been similar. However, there are more power struggles there. I think it is because there is something to conquer (an objective to reach). There is considerable more energy involved (passion). So, with their need to bring under submission and my disdain for conformism it can be interesting, at the very least. Still, INTJ-ENTJ is an ideal team.

[Solaris]

Hello something random I'd like to dribble about... two male friends who I thought might test as INTJ tested as ENTJ to my surprise their E was quite high yet I think they are quieter than I am and they don't seem to have the need to control things. Perhaps they where miss typed as another ENTJ i know is very much like the description.

So I guess what I'm saying is just because they are E doesn't mean they are loud and controlling (hmm not so surprising I guess). I would consider myself a tad louder than those two when amongst friends. One thing that counts against my limited E issue with them is the fact that they are both Managers in the workplace and they love it whereas I would hate to have to do it and probably avoid at all costs. So maybe thats the difference. Hmm yes, so they are quiet socially and happy to manage but this might be due to group dynamics as there are two other louder ENTJs and two ENFPs and we know how they can be! Oh and two supposed ENTJs are very intelligent so perhaps that makes it a bit harder as they have perhaps learnt to go about their controlling ways in a less in your face manner.

Ah hah I love pop psych!

Being E does not equate being loud in social situations. Remember, the E/I distinction is only supposed to indicate whether a person is recharged alone, or around others. I am very much like these two friends you described, and am often confused for being an introvert/shy when I'm in a situation where I don't socialize (because I don't want to).