Immortality and the INTJ

[Blacklustre King]

As it would seem from just a cursory analysis a lot of INTJs, including myself, have a powerful interest in Immortality.

Would you consider immortality immoral?
How would you go about obtaining it?
What known traits in biology can be manipulated to possibly produce immortality?

I personally believe INTJs, especially schizoid INTJs, are the best personality type suited for the role of an immortal. People who have an innate greatness or god complex, individuals who constantly see a new world. What could be and what can be rather then what is.

The Masterminds who wish to remain here as masters.

Ever creating and exploring new principles of human anatomy, physics, and energy. Fixing the broken structure of the degenerated system that is our world.

[lowbrass]

Immoral? Nah, I find it to be fascinating. Just a couple days ago, in fact, I was reading about the oldest living people. Then I pondered... "Hey, I get made fun of a lot for looking so damn young... what if I lived to be 120 or something. Could I look better than that?"

Despite a slight misfiring of my heart every now and then, I think I have many of the features of the relatives on my dad's side that are approaching 100. My granddad will turn 92 and his brother will be 96. Grandpa had to get his license taken away at 90.

Being careful of what one eats, of course, is primary... However, there are other aids such as nootropics and outside resources for anti-aging like:

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After all, if you want to be a mastermind, you must be masterful in maintaining that mind so that it continues to function as good as it always has.

Ideally, it would have been nice to have been born to wealthy INTJ parents. Leave me be and fund my research ;)

[OneBadMother]

I'm not INTJ, but I've always wanted to live forever. People ask me if I would be sad while other people around me died, or whether I'd get bored, or whether I'd really want to be around when the Big Crunch hit. I might get sad if some people died, but there would be more people to meet and be around for a long time, and I wouldn't stay depressed forever. There would be an eternity of things to explore and research and think about, so I'd never get bored. In fact, being immortal so that I could witness the eventual destruction of the Earth and the implosion of the universe would be fantastic. As it is, I don't feel like I have enough time to learn and do everything I'd like to do.

[OmegaPsi]

I'm not INTJ, but I've always wanted to live forever. People ask me if I would be sad while other people around me died, or whether I'd get bored, or whether I'd really want to be around when the Big Crunch hit. I might get sad if some people died, but there would be more people to meet and be around for a long time, and I wouldn't stay depressed forever. There would be an eternity of things to explore and research and think about, so I'd never get bored. In fact, being immortal so that I could witness the eventual destruction of the Earth and the implosion of the universe would be fantastic. As it is, I don't feel like I have enough time to learn and do everything I'd like to do.

I completely agree with you OBM, except I think it will be the Big Rip that will destroy the universe =)

[desg90]

Would you consider immortality immoral?

Not at all! Why should it be?


How would you go about obtaining it?

Currently, I'm researching about life extension methods and their theories.
Of course, I'm also studying economics, law and company management in order to get enough money to buy any means of indefinite life extension.
So far, I see contemporary medicine as a relatively decent (but temporary) life extender.
But, Cryogenics will help me go even farther.


What known traits in biology can be manipulated to possibly produce immortality?

The DNA has a chain of useless info at its ends so as to maintain cells' DNA healthy.
Science has been researching about stopping the deterioration of that spare chain.
Also, scientists are looking for defective genes that may cause human life to shorten;
as well as trying to implement genes that lengthen the life span.

As I said, Cryogenics is a good solution for the time issue.
They might not discover the secret of indefinite life span until after your death.
So, cryogenics preserve your body (and specially your brain) from deteriorating and will take action until nanotechnology
or another kind of discovery can revert anything that actually killed you,
and also, revert the brutality of contemporary medicine and cryogenics.

But, of course, you must know that already.
After twelve years of research, it's only natural. ;)

[ssfanatic]

As it would seem from just a cursory analysis a lot of INTJs, including myself, have a powerful interest in Immortality.

Would you consider immortality immoral?
How would you go about obtaining it?
What known traits in biology can be manipulated to possibly produce immortality?

I personally believe INTJs, especially schizoid INTJs, are the best personality type suited for the role of an immortal. People who have an innate greatness or god complex, individuals who constantly see a new world. What could be and what can be rather then what is.

The Masterminds who wish to remain here as masters.

Ever creating and exploring new principles of human anatomy, physics, and energy. Fixing the broken structure of the degenerated system that is our world.
Im not going into the whole Christianity thing with you, but that is eternal life.

But have you ever read the Epic of Gilgamesh? He goes on a search for immortality and to make a long story short, he doesn't reach it. But ironically, he is immortal because we still remember him today. Thats pretty much the lesson. The story was written like B.C. something, you can look it up.

Its just another way of looking at it, remembrance over actual existence.

[Antares]

As it would seem from just a cursory analysis a lot of INTJs, including myself, have a powerful interest in Immortality.

Would you consider immortality immoral?
How would you go about obtaining it?
What known traits in biology can be manipulated to possibly produce immortality?

I personally believe INTJs, especially schizoid INTJs, are the best personality type suited for the role of an immortal. People who have an innate greatness or god complex, individuals who constantly see a new world. What could be and what can be rather then what is.

The Masterminds who wish to remain here as masters.

Ever creating and exploring new principles of human anatomy, physics, and energy. Fixing the broken structure of the degenerated system that is our world.

It does appeal to me, but I don't think it's immoral. I wouldn't go out of my way to obtain it, though. Even though I'm 80% N, I still have more realistic goals to pursue.

[DeadSpace]

Immortality immoral. no
attainment and possible methods: Most likely course would be gene modification, short lived (you would not want them to have any opportunity to mutate) virri to modify/restore/repair cellular and mitochondrial code, possibly nanomachines to continously repair from a master database of your own base (normal)structure as well as clean toxin build up.
Less likely: Specialised clones created sans grey matter and transplant to the new, younger body. Less likely because while it's not entirely impossible in the forseeable future...it would be a huge moral issue with many groups.
Very unlikely in the near future...unless there's some incredible leaps forward, complete cybernetic transfer. With an emu for gland functions, so many chems control/bolster/alter our brains that the processing power to emulate what our body's and minds do naturally would be...enormous, and i believe even that's an understatement.
I've kinda thought about it a little...

[Caramel]

Working with cancer cell lines every day makes you ponder immortality. Its fascinating how those little biological units just never stop growing and have developed a kind of molecular blindless to all signals that would normally cause it to stop and reconsider what it is doing. If humans are anything like the cells that we're made off..well.. Sometimes its hard to find meaning in life already. If we'd live forever, wouldn't that slowly drive us mad?

[pavman]

Going out on a limb here, but if you believe Christianity, you will be immortal assuming you aren't condemned, so its a moot point.

Not sure I'd want to live so long that it becomes annoying to be alive... there was a movie about this type of thing where a couple who had lived like 600+ years decided that they had lived long enough and stopped whatever treatment kept them alive (of course, this was a side plot which ended up helping the protagonist save the day).

[INTJoe]

The novelty of immortality sounds fascinating, but in all honesty, I do wish to perish some day.

Maybe a happy medium would be nice, like the ability, after death, to come back one day every week and just sort of catch up on things, then check back out for a 6-day vacation. lol.

Is immortality immoral? I have no idea. Since immortality does not exist, AFAIK, I don't think it can be qualified on the morality scale.

[kirakakash]

I often think of ways to make humans immortal but not in a sense of preserving the human body but by enabling the brain to control a mechanical body. I figured it would be possible since the brain communicates with the body through small electrical impulses. If we can create machinery to interpret these impulses in the way we want to use them then it might be possible.
I know it seems far-fetched to some, but to have an immortal body that can surpass human limitations would be amazing. Creating a perfect digestive system that does not break down and absorb unwanted materials, perfect eyes that can accurately tell range and nightvision capability, the possibility is never-ending. A body that can always be modified. That is perfection. I originally intended that only the brain of the original body would be necessary but there are issues such as reproduction that would require too many human body parts. Energy is another factor, I really don't think the brain can produce enough energy for movement but I have considered constructing an artificial skin that can harvest energy from sunlight and heat. And then there's nourishment, the brain needs nutrients, I'm trying to think of some way to enable the brain cells to function without blood. I've done a little research but I can never really know unless I experiment.
Well thats my stance. I just brushed the surface. I have a lot more ideas but getting into the details will take too long. I'm guilty of skipping lengthy responses as well.
If there's someone out there that can make this a reality be my guest.





kirakakash added to this post, 16 minutes and 16 seconds later...

Oh I forgot to mention that size would be another issue. Sure, its ok for a male body to look big and thick, but people would just think their on steroids. But to have the technology to create a petite female body with the same amount of power and capabilities as a large male body, that would be divine.

[bubbles]

As it would seem from just a cursory analysis a lot of INTJs, including myself, have a powerful interest in Immortality.

Would you consider immortality immoral?
How would you go about obtaining it?
What known traits in biology can be manipulated to possibly produce immortality?

I personally believe INTJs, especially schizoid INTJs, are the best personality type suited for the role of an immortal. People who have an innate greatness or god complex, individuals who constantly see a new world. What could be and what can be rather then what is.

The Masterminds who wish to remain here as masters.

Ever creating and exploring new principles of human anatomy, physics, and energy. Fixing the broken structure of the degenerated system that is our world.

Yes, I consider immortality to be immoral. If everyone lives forever, then there wouldn't be enough space or resources for future generations. Then the cycle of life would be interrupted. I also wouldn't want to live forever. Wouldn't it being boring and tiring to be trapped in this world eternally?

I think it is possible to attain immortality. I'm not an expert on biology (so correct me if I'm wrong), but I heard somewhere that cells can only reproduce a certain number of times before they no longer undergo mitosis. We are genetically programmed to grow old and eventually die. To attain immortality, one would probably have to reprogram his DNA and manually replace parts of the body.

[tf1]

immortality is not impossible, our death is programmed. Our genome has been reproducing itself for billions of years. A 75 year "life" is emergent behavior of evolution.

If immortality is immoral, all medicine is immoral. Die for the improvement of the genome. Die.

Once somebody has the key it will be as simple as a a small pill or inoculation.

[Gonzo]

Immortality? Are you high?! I think life is long enough as it is, so I certainly don't need to add an eternity to it! Plus I doubt life would be as exiting if I were to live forever. Knowing that it could be lights out at any moment is half the fun of it if you ask me ;D

[pavman]

immortality is not impossible, our death is programmed. Our genome has been reproducing itself for billions of years. A 75 year "life" is emergent behavior of evolution.

If immortality is immoral, all medicine is immoral. Die for the improvement of the genome. Die.

Once somebody has the key it will be as simple as a a small pill or inoculation.

Too bad it will cost so much. I've always liked the idea that we're all doing this great stuff for society, but when you boil it down, its the haves vs. the have-nots who benefit in the end, eventually trickling down to the have-nots.

[thod]

I dont think 75 years is enough. There is so much I have yet to explore. It was fine for the hunter gatherer or the guy sitting on his farm but not anymore. I guess I would decide to end it myself someday but am not happy about it being imposed. This is assuming perfect health throughout life ofc.

I dont worry too much about the next generation being delayed. There are some advantages in fast turnover and some disadvantages too.

You wouldnt live forever due to accidents. After you have done all the common stuff you would be drawn to base jumping etc as the only things left and finish that way.

[Caramel]

I think it is possible to attain immortality. I'm not an expert on biology (so correct me if I'm wrong), but I heard somewhere that cells can only reproduce a certain number of times before they no longer undergo mitosis. We are genetically programmed to grow old and eventually die. To attain immortality, one would probably have to reprogram his DNA and manually replace parts of the body.

You're correct. You're thinking of telomeres, regions of highly repetitive DNA sequences at the end of our chromosones. Telomers exist to protect our actual important DNA (genes, promotor sequences, etc) because every cel devision a small DNA piece is 'consumed'. If this was actual important DNA, you'd suddenly lose genes, which would be ..undesired. So the more cell divisions you undergo (the older you are), the less telomere remains.

Now enter Telomerase, a enzyme that can extend / restore telomeres, allowing your cells to live..forever. Thus lengthening your life span.

Unfortunately, cancers also make good use of this enzyme, so caution is required.

[snoogit]

If immortality is immoral, all medicine is immoral. Die for the improvement of the genome. Die.

Ahhh Eugenics... the cause of, and solution to all of life's problems!

There's nothing inherently immoral about immortality, immorality comes into play in how you achieve this immortality.

If you do it by cloning yourself and finding a way to do memory transfer, is that immoral?

Is altering our DNA to achieve immortality immoral?

Is it immoral to those who will never experience immortality?

How do you define Immortality?

Is it keeping your consciousness intact?

Your entire body?

Only parts of your body? Is keeping your brain in a jar, and transmitting your consciousness into a machine considered immortality?

Do you need a body to be immortal?

Is programming an Immortal A.I with your own thoughts, emotions, personality quirks, etc. considered YOU, or merely a machine that represents a potential immortal self?

So many questions!

[Sleeper]

At the end of the day, I would say if physical conscious immortality was possible and we had the resources to achieve it, why should we not take it up.

I mean, we have no basis that is going to be as bad as people depict in fiction.

[Cesare Borgia]

No way would i want immortality, in 24 years i have seen enough to know i don't want anything to do with it, I rather become nothingness, forget heaven/hell or an afterlife.

[Ool]

As it would seem from just a cursory analysis a lot of INTJs, including myself, have a powerful interest in Immortality.

Actually what you’re talking about should be more accurately called: “indefinite longevity.”

You can’t really guarantee immortality, even if you found a cure for that most terminal of diseases, aging, and learned to direct an abundant power supply your way for a prolonged period of time. Immortality is something that will be forever embedded within the structure of the Universe itself and forever out of your control…





Ool added to this post, 1 minutes and 10 seconds later...

No way would i want immortality, in 24 years i have seen enough to know i don't want anything to do with it, I rather become nothingness, forget heaven/hell or an afterlife.

I hate to burst your bubble on that one…





Ool added to this post, 4 minutes and 11 seconds later...

At the end of the day, I would say if physical conscious immortality was possible and we had the resources to achieve it, why should we not take it up.

I mean, we have no basis that is going to be as bad as people depict in fiction.

Actually considering how many people believe in an invisible totalitarian dictator of the entire Cosmos, who will one day party with your ghost for all eternity, the most popular depiction of immortality in fiction doesn’t sound so bad at all…





Ool added to this post, 26 minutes and 52 seconds later...

There's nothing inherently immoral about immortality, immorality comes into play in how you achieve this immortality.

There is this book floating around as a bittorrent, called “God Wants You Dead.” (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) It makes a few interesting points considering why an indefinite prolonging of one’s life through technological means is considered immoral by so many. (I heartily recommend it, although their liberarianism is a little naïve when they talk about their political views rather than their philosophy as a whole, and I don’t agree with those parts of the book.)

The authors have explicitly okayed its leeching, so you wouldn’t break any laws downloading it. Just google for: "God Wants You Dead" torrent (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)

[Freedom Geek]

I too am extremely interested in immortality. I want to be able to continue doing interesting things without having to end that for such a stupid reason like death. I want to be able to experience technologies that would not be invented in my natural lifetime. I want to be able to do things and enact plans that take more than a life time and have a chance to see the political system I desire.
I believe immortality is not immoral, logically how is it more immoral to continue living any amount of time? If fact I want everyone to be able to control the lengths of their lifespans and I find this to be extremely moral. I consider the arguments against immortality to be silly. For instance overpopulation could be solved be new technologies that allow us to use resources more effectively, moving into space or simply saying that people could be immortal or have children but not both (a very un-libertarian solution I know but better that murdering everyone). If you don't want to be immortal, great don't take the treatments or kill yourself early if you really dislike life but don't force me to die because I like life, have plenty to do and don't believe life gets worse as time passes once age is taken out of the equation.
I find Aubrey de Gray's SENS plan to be our best chance at it but I'd really like to just get myself uploaded into a computer (using a process like Cyborging (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts..22Cyborging.22) that would keep my current self intact rather than just creating a copy).
Here's some information on sens. (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)
Here's a good pro-immortality argument. (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)
Here's a good documentary on the subject. (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)

[cncracer]

I have no desire for immorality, I want to live as well as I can now, and when the physical and mental aspects of my being grow dim, I want my matter and energy to be recycled. I don’t put a limit on that age, but hope when it comes I will recognize it for the positive value it is.
I have no fear of death despite being an atheist. In my life I have seen people suffer and lose their mental capabilities too often. It gave me the glimpse of what a gift death can be. It freed me of the fear, and was their last gift to me.

[Freedom Geek]

I have no desire for immorality, I want to live as well as I can now, and when the physical and mental aspects of my being grow dim, I want my matter and energy to be recycled. I don’t put a limit on that age, but hope when it comes I will recognize it for the positive value it is.
I have no fear of death despite being an atheist. In my life I have seen people suffer and lose their mental capabilities too often. It gave me the glimpse of what a gift death can be. It freed me of the fear, and was their last gift to me.
What if you could stop aging stop that process of loss, would immortality be good then? Most of the plans for immortality involve trying to make people be young forever not old.

[Sulurith]

The thing about immortality is that it destroys values.
What do you have to live for if you're immortal? Especially if you are the only immortal.

Of course, that statement refers to total immortality, not just the lack of aging.

I could set any goal for myself and know that I had an infinite amount of time to achieve it in. Once I achieved that goal, what would I do? Make another. However, there would only be so many goals one has the will to go on to do, I think, and that is the rub. One loses that imperative incentive to take action.

[Ool]

What do you have to live for if you're immortal? Especially if you are the only immortal.

You could ask the same question if you're mortal: What do you have to live for if it's all going to be over one day?

And who said anything about being the only immortal...?

[Autoptic]

The thing about immortality is that it destroys values.
What do you have to live for if you're immortal? Especially if you are the only immortal.

Of course, that statement refers to total immortality, not just the lack of aging.

I could set any goal for myself and know that I had an infinite amount of time to achieve it in. Once I achieved that goal, what would I do? Make another. However, there would only be so many goals one has the will to go on to do, I think, and that is the rub. One loses that imperative incentive to take action.

Everything you do is the result of desperation, and you only value things because of rarity?

Just a theory, I'd think with that much time you could if you truly wanted pursue meditation to the point of effective mental oblivion.

[Nikita]

The biggest draw of immortality, for me, would be living to see the way the world unfolds and to possibly see it end...to see it, not just to guess at it. I think immortality is something a lot of people think about. Religions are basically value systems to help one achieve a kind of immortality. Some examples: for Christians it involves eternal life in heaven living in the presence of god, for Mormons it involves planets and celestial glory, for Muslims it involves paradise with virgins, for Scientologists it's about being born into another body.

[Zombicide]

I'd like to become immortal through transhumanism but it's never going to happen, so I'm not concerned with it. Besides, some times I kind of want to die.

"Would you consider immortality immoral?"
Nope, I see nothing sincerely moral or immoral about anything that doesn't deal with empathy.

"What known traits in biology can be manipulated to possibly produce immortality?"
Genetic manipulation can remove our expiration dates

"The Masterminds who wish to remain here as masters."
"Ever creating and exploring new principles of human anatomy, physics, and energy. Fixing the broken structure of the degenerated system that is our world."
It's true that I fancy doing all of that

[Ool]

The biggest draw of immortality, for me, would be living to see the way the world unfolds and to possibly see it end...

The world never ends, just as you will never end.

That is, unlike you mean something more mundane and limited such as planet Earth by "the world." I'd sure like to see us build space elevators, conquer the Solar System, and eventually strip mine the entire planet to its core...





Ool added to this post, 1 minutes and 45 seconds later...

"Would you consider immortality immoral?"
Nope, I see nothing sincerely moral or immoral about anything that doesn't deal with empathy.

But continuation of life is all about empathy--empathy with your future self, who isn't quite like you but remembers having been you...

[cncracer]

What if you could stop aging stop that process of loss, would immortality be good then? Most of the plans for immortality involve trying to make people be young forever not old.

That is a immense “IF” and it would bring up other issues such as population control, distribution of wealth, and how to balance a society with people with 1000 years of knowledge vs. someone with 22 years of knowledge. Looks like a situation for a class society based on age.

[John F Kennedy]

Since I believe in a transcendental Love after death (not necessarily "God") I wouldn't really want to be stuck here on Earth forever. However, beliefs are not knowledge and I could be wrong. Choosing between a guaranteed life forever on Earth and a possible life in transcendental space would be a dilemma.

[invicta]

Would you consider immortality immoral? It's only immoral if it is forced on others. If it's an individual choice, then go right ahead.

How would you go about obtaining it? Finding the nonmaterial source within the material body, and finding a way to transfer it into something that can be repaired from time to time so as to avoid entropy.

What known traits in biology can be manipulated to possibly produce immortality? The information carried in the DNA protein. Preserving the information, and keeping the consciousness of personality intact would be the way to do this.

Personally, I have no interest in this. I don't want to work forever, and life on this plane/planet/dimension, whatever, seems to me to be merely a transition between other states. I'm more interested in what comes next than I am in prolonging the transition. But for others, it's an interesting and worthwhile pursuit.

[Jgib5328]

I'd love to be immortal, there's so much that I want to do, see, and learn, why would I want to die? There's so much to discover & master.

[MaleVolentworld]

Immortality would be hell since we'd all be robots, and robots get boring after 5mins.

Robot ears stand by...

[Nikita]

The world never ends, just as you will never end.

How do you know? The way I see it, there is only one way to find out.

[Ool]

How do you know? The way I see it, there is only one way to find out.

Okay, I'll bite. What's the way to find out?

Because it can't be waiting for the end. You wouldn't know that the end had come after the end, what with it having been the end and yourself no longer being around to see that it was the end.

So what is the "only way to find out" in your book? I know how I find things out, but your method seems to be different, as indicated by your different conclusions...





Ool added to this post, 2 minutes and 28 seconds later...

Immortality would be hell since we'd all be robots, and robots get boring after 5mins.

You forgot the "likes." This is what your post ought to look like:

Immortality would be like, hell since we'd like, all be robots, and robots get boring after like, 5mins.

[OmegaPsi]

Sure, I'd love to live forever and see how my personality changes through the ages and epochs. But the only thing that I want in addition with immortality, is ultra-memory. What's the point of seeing/doing it all if you can't remember it?

[Jgib5328]

Sure, I'd love to live forever and see how my personality changes through the ages and epochs. But the only thing that I want in addition with immortality, is ultra-memory. What's the point of seeing/doing it all if you can't remember it?

Ultra-memory w/ your body and mind in its prime for eternity, that'd be key.

[blueback]

Immortality would be hell since we'd all be robots

I kind of agree. I figure if you're going to live forever you're going to accidentally fall into a volcanoe or get caught in a nuclear blast or something. It's seems inevitable the more time you give for something like that to happen. That would mean you would have to replace your physical form with something that could survive being dropped off of the empire state building. But, it would defeat the pupose if you didn't retain your personality and self-awareness. So we wouldn't actually be robots, we'd just have robot bodies.

You wouldn't know that the end had come after the end, what with it having been the end and yourself no longer being around to see that it was the end.

Well, technically the concept of immortality doesn't address whether or not you would continue to exist after everything else had ended. I figure if this thought experiment is going to be any fun it makes sense to take it all the way. Why not assume that immortality means forever? You aren't just the last in line to disappear but you never ever disappear.

In that case you would get to see how everything ends.

[Jgib5328]

Well, technically the concept of immortality doesn't address whether or not you would continue to exist after everything else had ended. I figure if this thought experiment is going to be any fun it makes sense to take it all the way. Why not assume that immortality means forever? You aren't just the last in line to disappear but you never ever disappear.

In that case you would get to see how everything ends.


I thought about this before. After the universe would cease to exist, you'd probably suffer from the lack of atmosphere and everything else a normal person needs to survive for eternity, I.E., you'd suffocate for eternity. I think over time, you'd evolve into a being that doesn't need anything to survive, so it wouldn't be too bad, plus you'd probably be so used to the pain.

[Hatsumomo1]

Immortality. Moral? Meh. Stupid? Yes, especially in today's circumstances. As if overpopulation isn't big enough problem, unless we can make a world law that bans people from having kids (and requires them to disable their reproductive organs, since there will always be oopsies.) Hopefully we can figure out a way for immortals to never ever become diseased with any ailment ever known to mankind so we don't overwhelm our hospitals and clinics even more.

Not to mention I think this life would get dull pretty fast. I, personally, think life is beautiful because it's so short. People are more driven to do things and live their lives because life is short. If I were immortal, what motivation do I have to do something exciting and interesting? Even if you were to "live your life" pretty soon you'd have exhausted all your possibilities. Then what do you have to live for?

[Ool]

Immortality. Moral? Meh. Stupid? Yes, especially in today's circumstances. As if overpopulation isn't big enough problem, unless we can make a world law that bans people from having kids [...]

Actually the only reason we have children is because we have to die and we don't want our species to die. The only reason we have more children than are necessary to merely replenish us in numbers is because we have to make sure that natural selection works against entropy and randomness of genetic recombination, which can be either good or bad, forcing us to create a surplus.

If we devised systems that ensured our survival without our having to die and to take stabs in the dark concerning our personality traits and those of our successors then the overpopulation problem would never come up.

We're already in a situation in the developed world in which prosperity and empowerment lead to a reduction in birth rates rather than an increase.

Overpopulation is overcompensation in our battle against nature. If we had the upper hand and didn't have to battle, though, this wouldn't be as much of an issue.

Also if we managed to tap into the energy abundance of the Sun and the living space of outer space then we would have enough room and power for trillions of people and more, rather than merely billions.

[nosugarintea]

Because it can't be waiting for the end. You wouldn't know that the end had come after the end, what with it having been the end and yourself no longer being around to see that it was the end.

So what is the "only way to find out" in your book? I know how I find things out, but your method seems to be different, as indicated by your different conclusions...


This is correct. We'll find the source with our method and thank you for yours.

[Ool]

Well, technically the concept of immortality doesn't address whether or not you would continue to exist after everything else had ended. I figure if this thought experiment is going to be any fun it makes sense to take it all the way. Why not assume that immortality means forever? You aren't just the last in line to disappear but you never ever disappear.

In that case you would get to see how everything ends.

You're part of everything.

So everything hasn't ended yet while you're still around.

As for "everything else," you can never empirically prove that there is nothing else. Just because you don't see anything doesn't mean there's truly nothing out there.





Ool added to this post, 2 minutes and 34 seconds later...

This is great. Can you tell me how to find the source? Or should I ask someone else?

Source of what...?

[blueback]

Not to mention I think this life would get dull pretty fast.

It's a well established cognitive bias that people always underestimate the amount of happiness they will feel in the future.

for example, when people break up with their significant other, and are asked to guess how long it will be before they are 'generally happy with their life' they always overesitmate the time by an order of magnitude. When questioned later they regain their 'general satisfaction with their life' much, much faster than they predicted.

So, if you were imortal, you'd probably be happier about it than you expect.

You're part of everything.

So everything hasn't ended yet while you're still around.

As for "everything else," you can never empirically prove that there is nothing else. Just because you don't see anything doesn't mean there's truly nothing out there.

Granted.

I was thinking more along the lines of "you" being some sort of etherial consciousness that is capable of observing but doesn't really have a form, and therefore can't be destroyed.

Besides, if you are all that exist, lets imagine a naked body floating in dark, empty space, then effectively everything has ended. Sure, you could watch yourself, but that doesn't really count. The definition of "you" must necessarily include the requirement that "you" remain identifiable. There must be something about you that doesn't change for you to be sure that you still exist. So, if you are sure that you still exists, then something isn't changing.

If you aren't changing, and nothing around you is changing, then hasn't everything ended?