Too intense

[jjelovich]

I don't know if some of you other male INTJs have this same issue or not and I'd also love to get the ladies perspective on this subject.

Sometimes I wonder, even fear, if I am too intense in my display of interest in a girl; let me explain. I am a true blue male and I am not ashamed to say that what first gets my attention about a girl is her physical appearance, though it is never the sole reason to act. So if I find a girl to be cute, pretty, physically atractive, or however you like to call it, I tend to observe her for a time. I like to observe her in her natural habitat, if you will, with out me being part of the equation. I take note of how she carries herself, how she treats others and so on. Then after this observation period I figure out wether or not it was more than just mere physical atraction; if it is more than just physical I will act. I approach the girl in a friendly, non obtrousive maner, having good will and good intentions and also willing to suffer through small talk for the sake of making contact and making myself known to her. Things go smoothily for a while, I feel-it-out a bit more, and we usually tend to be interested in eachother. This is the point where I seem to run into problems. Once here I tend to make my full intentions known, ( side note: I am not the type of guy who is just looking for some "action"), that I am interested in this girl and I would like to take her on a date in hopes that it will lead to a more serious relationship. Thats where I feel I maybe too intense, I think I may be too quick to express my intent rather than just letting things kind-of causualy happen. However I have a very hard time just leaving things up in the air and not making my full intent known early on. I feel as if I am being false if I don't explain to her that I am interested in more than just a casual frienship with her. To me a relationship, at least in this term, is pointless unless it is a serious relationship, and I think I may scare some girls away too quickly with that mindset.

Anyway I would love others thought and input.

[Zilal]

Sure... I'd definitely skip mentioning your hope that it'd lead to a serious relationship. It's a totally legitimate hope... she might even be thinking the same thing... but just one of those things not to be mentioned at first. Don't think you're being dishonest by hiding it at the start, just think of yourself as following ritual.

[PortInStorm]

Yep, I concur. Even though it's perfectly legitimate to not be willing to waste time on casual dating, you have to concentrate on walking the fine line between coming on too strong, and being so distant she forgets your face :-) I would err on the side of forgetting your face. You NEED to give her time to miss you- missing is key in developing these things. It was only after my husband had given up all together that I realized I might be missing out on something good, and I called him. It took off from there because then we were both wholehearted partners with some investment in the relationship.

[thod]

On the animal cultivation side woth regard to sheep and goats you are just plain wrong. Maybe in your part of the world you can grow crops. But go upto large parts of scotland and wales there is no more productive means of using that land. You are not going to grow fields of wheat on the slopes where the soil is so thin. Pigs are kept in most tribes because they will eat the waste and sewage and dig for in edible roots. You are getting something for nothing. Same with chickens you dont feed them human foodstuffs.

You can argue that dogs are unsuccessful from an evolution standpoint. Yet for 30k years they have lived with humans. They have extended to every continent and are far more numerous than wolves. That can be argued as success too.

There isnt a question of what will happen in 1000 years. Peak oil prodiction is past and its all downhill now. Without that oil there are no fertilizers and agri chemicals. Organic farming is the future. Things will be closer to the 19th century. We will live more in rural villages and farm the land around us. More labor will be needed on the land. Transport costs will be far higher. We will still use ethanol/elecitical engines so we wont be quite back to horses. Our diet will be as the past, consisting of what we grow around us with far less meat. Everything will still be available, you will still get bananas in Alaska but at much higher costs. The post oil world will be quieter and slower paced yet the internet will prevent it slipping back into the parochial bigotry of the past. In a lot of ways I see the future like the Amish way of life.

[jjelovich]

Great feedback, thanks! Although I'm not quite sure I follow thod. I agree and I know it is better to give too much space than coming off too strong I just hate that nagging voice in my INTJ brain that says "You must act! Don't leave this in the hands of someone else! If you want something YOU need to go and get it!" and so on and so forth. I guess my real issue is patience, which is always something I have a hard time curbing when it comes to something, or someone, I am interested in.

[Diana]

I think you kind of have to strike a balance, and I think it depends on the person (girl) as well. I personally....don't like gray areas of life (though I have learned I need to accept them!) I love black and white! I actually asked a guy his intentions in regard to me one time since he was really unclear, but I honestly regretted it; I don't like to be the type of girl that attempts to set the pace or define the relationship- I prefer leaving that role to the man. In that particular situation, I would have been really honored if the he had simply given me a little better look at his road map... [or...lack thereof!]
But like others said, there really is a balance to strike. It'd be a bit overwhelming for any girl, I think -before going on any dates or really getting to know you, to hear that you want to be in a serious relationship with her. [There was once a guy who told me he eventually seriously wanted to marry me after we'd only been out three times. I threw up a little bit.] Perhaps get to know each other gradually, and in a variety of situations (as it is easy to only see people's "good sides"), then there should be a good chance you'll both know either way whether you're each interested in each other for the long term. Thats as black-and-white as I can put it! :)

[Brutananadilewski]

Yeah, patience doesn't come easily for an INTJ. I'm not sure about you, but I also find that I over-analyze every detail of every encounter that I've had with someone that I'm interested in, since I lack that critical understanding and awareness of my own feelings as well as those signals which she would display to indicate her emotions. I find that this over-analyzing brings out too many possibilities for me to feel comfortable with, and I find I've a really strong urge to go out on a limb, just so I could find some closure and self-peace, whether for better or for worse. For myself, I've painfully learned to wait after many experiences of just getting it out there, only to have it backfire Wil E Coyote style. Hanging back, however, still sends my head spinning in circles and my bottom line and productivity just seem to plummet into the abyss until I get some closure. 2ndtime is right: as ass-backwards as it may seem, feigning slight disinterest can go a long way to finding your way into a relationship.

Bah, we're just cursed when it comes to the "dance", I tell ye.

[jjelovich]

It'd be a bit overwhelming for any girl, I think -before going on any dates or really getting to know you, to hear that you want to be in a serious relationship with her

I agree. I'm not quite like that however. I've never been straight-up "Hey lets just make this serious ASAP". I could understand how it would be a bit creepy. I don't expect things to be serious right away, in fact I expect it to take time, although, that is the goal I have in mind, unless I change it that is, and I feel like I need to make that apparent, for honesties sake.

[iamnotspock]

Couldn't you just cut the whole dating crap, jjelovich, and bring her father six healthy goats as a dowry?

p.s. I am kidding ;-)

[Solaris]

Well, for me, I'd have to say I like that approach in theory. Having never had a man do this to me, I can't say what I would actually do. Since being honest and genuine is just about the #1 priority for me when it comes to all people I know, I would probably appreciate that behavior. As long as a man isn't emitting the "I'm a creep, you should never be alone in a room with me" vibe when he is stating these things, I think it should be ok. I am sort of operating under the assumption that you are really most interested in a woman who is of a similar mind, and would, therefore, understand and appreciate this approach. You probably won't have a lot of luck with this, because I'm a woman and I can barely find any women I can have long-term friendships with. I can't imagine what would happen if I had to date women. So you are either going to have to "settle" (ew) or continue to wait for the one who doesn't freak out.

I totally understand you on the "do I freak people out" question. I often think I am too intense for people, but they rarely come out and say so, so I can't be sure.

[jjelovich]

Couldn't you just cut the whole dating crap, jjelovich, and bring her father six healthy goats as a dowry?

p.s. I am kidding ;-)

Even though I don't have goats I would be willing to learn how to get some and raise them to age so I could give them as a proper dowry, that would be a lot easier.

[PortInStorm]

You know, this going to sound wierd, but a major turn-on for me was the purposely ambiguous comment with a quiet look. Say I wanted to indicate to a similar-minded individual (Solaris is right, they have to "get it") that I was into them, I'd look for a way to come through for them, and say "Don't worry about it, you know a lot of people care for you..." *two seconds of look*, then off you go to more general, carefree topics, or to some kind of activity.

[Solaris]

You know, this going to sound wierd, but a major turn-on for me was the purposely ambiguous comment with a quiet look. Say I wanted to indicate to a similar-minded individual (Solaris is right, they have to "get it") that I was into them, I'd look for a way to come through for them, and say "Don't worry about it, you know a lot of people care for you..." *two seconds of look*, then off you go to more general, carefree topics, or to some kind of activity.

This would cause my brain to spin with infinite possibilities until I just confronted you about what that meant exactly. At which time, I'd then learn I was correct.

[Uytuun]

I totally understand you on the "do I freak people out" question. I often think I am too intense for people, but they rarely come out and say so, so I can't be sure.

I hear you...but when I ask my friends they say it's ok. I still think it's not...

I'm also terribly impatient about this relationship stuff. It's just so upsetting to be in emotional turmoil and it drives my mind so crazy with over-analysing that I have to do something about it.

And yeah, sadly, feigning a little disinterest does work wonders sometimes.

Solaris brings up an interesting point: can we rely on our intuition to determine whether or not someone is interested?

[thod]

Lol, my earlier post was a reply to a totaly different thread. Thats what you get from typing a reply with several windows open. Not suprising you dont follow it.

On topic. I find that if I let my rational side take over I will get nowhere. Women dont like to be analysed and treated like a test subject.

If I try to be impressive I get nowhere too. They can see through it.

Its the women I treat normaly as friends that show interest back to me. I guess they detect that I am relaxed and chatting normaly. Trouble is these are often ones I have no romantic interest in. I am suprised when I first pick up their interest signals (am always slow at that).

I think that the "intensity" only comes about because you are making a concious effort. If you were more care free about it then you wouldnt get that reaction.

[PortInStorm]

Exactly. Your mind will be kept spinning with the incompleteness of the whole thing so that you're thinking of the other person for a looooong time. Otherwise, if everything is neat and tidy, it's over with in your mind. Even if you like the person, the fact that you KNOW the person is interested takes the painful/pleasure edge off of it. Romance IS the painful/pleasure, and that's needed at the beginning of the relationship to propel you through to the more solid love part.

Plus, I think you can use your intuition at the beginning to suspect another person's into you- then the dance begins. You pay attention more, perhaps spend a little more time with the person, send out your own "feelers" (ambiguous hints), and as these feelers build up, you become more certain. Efficient? Certainly not- but psychologically, the consensus is that you dwell on whatever's unfinished, uncertain, etc.

[Paul V]

I know for a fact that I'm a very intense person in general, and I must constantly refrain myself, to avoid scaring other people.

I'd just wish there was someone who wouldn't find my intensity scary or intimidating. Oh, well, who cares.

[Learning]

Maybe because you do your analyzing/observing from a distance you are a little further along in your pursuit than she is aware of. (as others mentioned...can also come across as a little creepy:confused:)

She then would need some time to catch up on getting to know you...and then decide if she likes what she knows.

I tend to think, though, that if two people are right for each other things progress "naturally" in a way. In the process of getting to know the person, if they're "right" for you, they probably won't mind your appraoch.

I can also say I've heard from various sources that 6mos. is a good (minimum) timetable to get to know a person (i.e.-to build a friendship first, or date exclusively to get to know the person better).

[Pinkie]

I actually asked a guy his intentions in regard to me one time since he was really unclear, but I honestly regretted it...

Haha! I've done that too. I didn't regret it, though - I needed to know. And my intuitions were right.

But, to address the matter in hand, yes, you do probably scare them away. I don't know how old you are, but I certainly haven't appreciated it when guys have come on very strong because I'm still quite young. By all means make it clear that you're not just out to get into her pants - I think a lot of girls like that - but I don't think there's a case for the fact that you seem to think you're committing the sin of deception by omission here. I mean, surely by asking her on a date you're implying that you're interested in more than a casual friendship?

[quentin]

Girls, in general, don't like being "stalked". Observing her from a distance without interacting with her comes across as very creepy.

I've made the same mistake before and scared girls off that way.

[jjelovich]

Girls, in general, don't like being "stalked". Observing her from a distance without interacting with her comes across as very creepy.

I've made the same mistake before and scared girls off that way.

Agreed. I may have misrepresented myself with that statement. I am usualy quick to come to a conclusion and then quick to act, I think my intuition plays a huge part in this aspect of my life.

[Provoker]

I just had an interview for a research position, and I think I came off as way to intense. My nerves are shot. Whatever.