Ages 21-25ish: Staying Sane. [Archive]

Santana28

01-11-2008, 12:04 AM

This is interesting...
I'm already worrying myself over that issue (at 18?)

I can still study in almost any field of my choice...
The future seems to hold too many possibilities...
What to do now, before I get thrown into the crudity of real life?

I mean... I consider myself to be really pampered by my parents.
Academically, I can ask them to provide me with almost any tools!
What will I do when I finish studying to be competent at work?
Which path to follow? Which counsel to hear?

i would suggest taking advantage of whatever current tools are available to you, and use them to open more options to you further down the road. even if i COULD have went to school at 18, i would have wasted my time and money studying for a career that i would come to hate as soon as i began working in it. learn something that builds you up as a person - gives you sharper tools with which to approach the world. if you're anything like most of the INTJs here, i wouldn't suggest limiting yourself to a particular vocation... perhaps something more liberal arts. unless you're certain you have an absolute passion for a particular vocation.

and i'd also suggest going off on your own to some place where you have never been before, and spending some quality time alone (or at least, away from what you have known). the first thing i did when i graduated was take a trip all the way to the pacific coast and back - i was gone a month. i ate gas station lunchmeat, bathed in YMCA bathhouses, and slept in national park campgrounds. it was the best experience of my life. when i got home, the first thing i did was sell everything i had and moved 3 states away to a place i had never been. i dont know if i would suggest something so drastic to you - but i can honestly tell you that the lessons i've learned over the past 8 years - about myself as a person, have been invaluable. and the friends i've made, however few - i would have never made otherwise.

do the best with what you have, and never EVER limit yourself.

desg90

01-11-2008, 12:39 AM

Building my personal interests: Check.
Exploiting my generous parents' tools to open life's doors: Check.
Limiting myself to a particular vocation... erm... academically: check... intellectually....
Going off to a place unknown: Check
Going off to a place unknown alone... pending.
Moving far away: On planning stage.
Do something refreshingly drastic... pending...

radioactivez0r

01-11-2008, 12:44 AM

be glad you didnt get thrown out onto the street at 17, had no one to depend on, and no outlet for your intellect or abilities because you weren't fortunate enough to have the luxury of a college education certifying such things... and have to live your life eating ramen noodles and scraping pennies to keep the lights on :)

I'm sure this sounds ridiculous, and I wouldn't make it one of my 3 wishes should I find a magic lamp...but that probably would have been a more useful experience overall than how I did spend those formative years, wasting my parents' money as I bounced from unfulfilling major to unfulfilling major.

Fissiongrid

01-11-2008, 12:47 AM

and i'd also suggest going off on your own to some place where you have never been before, and spending some quality time alone (or at least, away from what you have known). the first thing i did when i graduated was take a trip all the way to the pacific coast and back - i was gone a month. i ate gas station lunchmeat, bathed in YMCA bathhouses, and slept in national park campgrounds. it was the best experience of my life. when i got home, the first thing i did was sell everything i had and moved 3 states away to a place i had never been. i dont know if i would suggest something so drastic to you - but i can honestly tell you that the lessons i've learned over the past 8 years - about myself as a person, have been invaluable. and the friends i've made, however few - i would have never made otherwise.

do the best with what you have, and never EVER limit yourself.
That's a really inspiring story. It makes me feel a lot more confident with where I'm headed and it makes me not worry about taking steps into the dark. Thank you.

Santana28

01-11-2008, 12:55 AM

That's a really inspiring story. It makes me feel a lot more confident with where I'm headed and it makes me not worry about taking steps into the dark. Thank you.

wow. thank you for appreciating that.

i dont know about you guys, but just being random... has saved my life on several occasions.

i'm about to do something else equally impulsive... if i said i wasnt absolutely terrified i'd be lying. but i know that once i take the first step i will be moving in the right direction, and i will do the absolute best i can do to succeed wherever that step takes me.

radioactivez0r

01-11-2008, 12:56 AM

and i'd also suggest going off on your own to some place where you have never been before, and spending some quality time alone (or at least, away from what you have known). the first thing i did when i graduated was take a trip all the way to the pacific coast and back - i was gone a month. i ate gas station lunchmeat, bathed in YMCA bathhouses, and slept in national park campgrounds. it was the best experience of my life. when i got home, the first thing i did was sell everything i had and moved 3 states away to a place i had never been. i dont know if i would suggest something so drastic to you - but i can honestly tell you that the lessons i've learned over the past 8 years - about myself as a person, have been invaluable. and the friends i've made, however few - i would have never made otherwise.

do the best with what you have, and never EVER limit yourself.

that's one of those ideas that circles the periphery of my mind, and once in a while breaks through and i start getting restless. but, at 28, i've probably grown too scared to venture off like that. i've never been one for doing something like that alone, but have someone else suggest it to me and it could easily be a different story.

Santana28

01-11-2008, 12:59 AM

rwyatt365

01-11-2008, 06:43 AM

and i'd also suggest going off on your own to some place where you have never been before, and spending some quality time alone (or at least, away from what you have known). the first thing i did when i graduated was take a trip all the way to the pacific coast and back - i was gone a month. i ate gas station lunchmeat, bathed in YMCA bathhouses, and slept in national park campgrounds. it was the best experience of my life. when i got home, the first thing i did was sell everything i had and moved 3 states away to a place i had never been. i dont know if i would suggest something so drastic to you - but i can honestly tell you that the lessons i've learned over the past 8 years - about myself as a person, have been invaluable. and the friends i've made, however few - i would have never made otherwise.

do the best with what you have, and never EVER limit yourself.
Santana, as always you are an inspiration. How true of you to say "...never EVER limit yourself." In a time of virtually unlimited possibilities it is criminal of anyone (IMO) to place boundaries on yourself simply because of trepidation.

Theoden, when you look back you'll wish you had ventured out and tested the waters. The worst thing you can do to yourself is to regret your life.

Solaris

01-11-2008, 08:08 AM

that's one of those ideas that circles the periphery of my mind, and once in a while breaks through and i start getting restless. but, at 28, i've probably grown too scared to venture off like that. i've never been one for doing something like that alone, but have someone else suggest it to me and it could easily be a different story.

You say that like 28 is old or something. I maintain that I didn't start actually living until I was 27-28. My life completely changed (no, I'm not exaggerating[sp?]). Some of it has been terrifying, and I'm not through it all yet, but I'm pretty sure it's all going to prove out to have been for the best. Of course, this may be because that's the outlook I have. I have to treat my whole life as a purposeful lesson, or I'd just be sitting pitifully in a box on a streetcorner somewhere.

Zilal

01-11-2008, 08:11 AM

Yeah, I think the key is just to try different things. And, importantly, to let yourself get a real taste of them before bouncing to the next thing. It doesn't have to be drastic. But just go out and take a random job, plan to stick with it for six months and then to quit and try another one. Let yourself date different people, make mistakes etc.

Solaris

01-11-2008, 08:45 AM

Does anyone else realize that we're all mostly saying to just let yourself be free, to let go of so much self-control? Or, that even in the way we suggest letting go of so much self-control, we do things that still *look* controlled. Taking what we think is a random job, or moving to a totally new place -- it's really not that wild, but it feels that way to us. Sorry, this just kind of gave me a chuckle.

I don't think anyone here has much interest in controlling others, but we have great interest in controlling oursevles.

rwyatt365

01-11-2008, 10:12 AM

I think that there is a tendency to analyze change – sometimes to death. I've heard that this is more an INTP trait more so than an INTJ one, but I think we're both prone to analysis paralysis. "Taking a flyer", or throwing caution to the wind, is difficult for either to embrace we want to examine alternatives, or devise pro/con matrices, or create cost/benefit analyses instead of just getting out there and doing something different.

Quite Robert

01-11-2008, 10:47 AM

Snuggles

01-11-2008, 02:10 PM

Meh... I'm just out of college to, but I didn't go on the 'grad school' path.

I became completely sick of living off my parents. My sister is a complete mooch (a looter for those Ayn Rand fans) and would drain my parents of every cent they have just so she could buy a new purse. What a complete loser.

So I started my career... I like it. I like where I am and what I'm doing. It's not always exciting... sure... what is? I just recently got my first REALLY big challenge... I had no idea how huge this would be until I met with a Senior level staff member today.

Where am I going with this... oh yeah, the topic... well... while it is 'rough' I suppose... I think it's rough for different reasons.

You sound like me (all of us?) following out the super generic "this is how you live life" pamphlet. Graduate high school, graduate college... live! We get caught up on this... "ok... I finished school... now I need to find a mate for the rest of my life! We need to have kids... and watch their sports games... buy a house... blah blah blah..."

It upsets me that I get caught up in this even though it's not the path I want. Umm... so yeah... this is a rough period in the sense that I have a lot of years left here and I really don't know where I want to go.

Was there supposed to be an answer in here? I feel like I posted like I was going to help you, but then I realize I ended just making myself confused and upset... weird.

amei

01-11-2008, 08:43 PM

I freaked out a lot in my last year of college because for once in my life, I didn't have anything planned. Through high school & college, I had always been extremely focused on academics and I felt that after college I would have nothing to base my existence on. I've learned over the past 3 years, that things always work out so it's usually completely unnecessary to make yourself sick worrying so much about them.

I highly recommend everyone else's suggestions to experience different things. I feel that I am still learning about who I am and what I want in life during these years. I have been fortunate to have a great entry level job in the US that challenged me in a lot of ways. For the last year, I have been teaching English in Korea which has been a great experience as well. I am proud that I am one of the people who actually do something like live overseas instead of the people who wish they could do that. My advice would be just do it. Ask yourself will you regret doing it or not doing it more?

Santana28

01-11-2008, 09:21 PM

it's easy to plan things in a controlled, predictable setting... if you're really interested in challenging and perfecting yourself, you throw yourself into uncontrollable situations and see how you do :) through the fire and the flames!

desg90

01-11-2008, 10:40 PM

Yeah, that might be a good way of developing yourself as a person but...
What if we're not ready for adventure yet?
What if we're still planning the present?

I mean, recklessly throwing ourselves to the unknown
might not be what we want for our close future.

Though, I must admit that a bit of... planned recklessness
(pardon the paradox) seems a bit appealing to me.

Asking myself if "I'll regret it" is one of the first steps into planning the next adventure. ;)
Only thought you'd like to know what I meant by "planned recklessness".

radioactivez0r

01-12-2008, 01:00 AM

If it wasn't for the financial responsibilities I currently have, and that incessant need for (security?) one thing to be rather stable in my life, who knows? I will go to a place I haven't been, but I'll unfortunately have some kind of plan for it.

Vortex

01-12-2008, 05:21 AM

I can strongly relate to all this... I'm kind of terrified of the future because its unsecured. There are so many infinite possibilities that I can almost touch, and I'm stuck here in the present with very real opportunity cost restrictions in place. I'm very worried I'll end up paralyzed through continuous analysis and be too late to reach my dreams =\

Maybe the 20s is just a neurotic time for INTJs?

Theoden

01-14-2008, 12:39 PM

I think fear of becoming neurotic is making me neurotic, yeah.

jdc127

01-14-2008, 01:16 PM

It can be difficult and scary to just up and move out of state or to become independent in some "drastic" manner, but if you have never been out from under your parent's wing and you are able, I think you should. I would generalize that most INTJ's are quite resourceful, capable and indepedent. To truly learn what these mean and how they are used apporpriately/inappropriately you need to truly have to rely on yourself.

Even going to college in another town or state doesn't quite apply is you are still overly dependent on your parents and other forms of social support that you grew up with. Besides, I cannot advocate going to college right out of high school. Who really know what they want to study, learn, become or do with their lives at 18? Or at 25 or 30? It happens, but sometimes those folks limit themselves in their choices because they know nothing else. (NOTE: I also don't want to discourage college at 18 if you are really motivated or some unique circumstance makes it too good to pass up. For instance, some colleges offer free or cheap tuition to residents or high school graduates of the state.)

I grew up in small town Illinois and I knew I never fit in there. I was an excellent and conformist (if rather individual) individual until it was just too much and cynicism and depression about not feeling happy or whole or knowing who I was or what I wanted to do with my life became too much around the age of 17. Those feelings were certainly augmented by my bad relationship with my relatively unsuporting parents and nonexistant social networks. I was living on my own and taing care of myself from the age of 17.

I was born and spent the first two years of my life in Colorado, and I knew I wanted to get back there as soon as I was able. I worked after high school, saved money and bought a car. Initially I took four classes when I moved out there, but I knew it was awaste of money and time to pursue studies without an intention to do my best or a long-term carrer/educational goal in mind(largely this comes from interest and passionate devotion to learning and experiencing.)

I ended up working full time, moving around between IL and CO, then out to Oregon before moving back to my home town at the age of 23. I then got a job working maintenance at a hospital and thought I would try my hand at med school. I then moved to Minnesota for schooling because I knew some people that I met on the internet through them I was introduced to doctors doing research at Mayo and the U of M.

(There is another idea, if you don't know what you want to do, take part time classes. Take what interests you. Save some money. Do what YOU want for a while rather than what might be expected of you. See where life takes you.)

Here is an important point: though it against most IN tendencies, you need to socila network no matter what you are doin or where you are going. This is especially true if you are moving where you have no other existing soical networks be it for school, work or even just living out of your car. The opportunities and support you will find there will be immensely invaluable. However, I have moved every I have been without prior existing support networks for the majority of the time and it worked out fine because I perservered. With retrospect, it was not always enjoyable and I would have been much better off if that were not the case, and most importantly if I had not persisted in isolating myself.

Basically, I say live with courage, honesty, a sense of adventure, know what you know and don't know, don't be afraid to open yourself to new people, experiences and opportunities and do the best you are able in every circumstance. If you don't do these things, that is where regret and failure are sure to creep in.

And all you perfectionists and visionaries, do not forget that while you have the responsibility to yourself and others to do the very best you can in whatever you might be doing, you have no right to expect any certain or specific outcomes from your actions and efforts. Life is way beyond any of our control and the sooner we come to grips with this fact, the happier and more able to live fully we will become.

Oh yeah, and don't forget to have a good time. :)

Jesse

Tokey41

01-14-2008, 01:40 PM

At twenty years old and in my third year of university I can easily relate to what your feeling right now... but I figure once I get through the formalities and move on with my life with the degree i've chosen it will all be worth the years of work. It's a field that fits certain dominant aspects of my persoanlity perfectly, obviously a career will be a huge part of your life so you want to make sure what your working towards will satisfy you for years to come.

The possibilities are inifinite, we just need to carefully pick one. I think everyone goes through this phase at some point, INTJ's just seem to do so more intensely... simply reflect on what you want out of life and choose your destination (and not just in terms of a career). We have the ability to do great things, it's when we get caught up in thinking about those great things so much and forget to actually do them that causes problems.

Developer

01-14-2008, 02:35 PM

I've got to admit - this is easily the toughest part of my life thus far. It seems like the options are basically infinite (I could excel in any field, anywhere), and yet... what do I do?

If you are not so sure about what you really want to do, I suggest that you go for an entry level position at a large company. This will give you the opportunity to change direction without too much trouble, if you see that you ended up in the wrong department. Big corporations are aware of this type of situation and will help you move forward.

The second thing is this: you have a lot of abilities which you know nothing about, because they have not been needed so far. It is always interesting to see how surprised younger professionals are at what they can do, when their frst real job is challenging them.

I can very well relate to the anxiety you may feel, but actually this is the most interesting part of your life. If you can, enjoy the ride!

Solaris

01-14-2008, 09:39 PM

If you are not so sure about what you really want to do, I suggest that you go for an entry level position at a large company. This will give you the opportunity to change direction without too much trouble, if you see that you ended up in the wrong department. Big corporations are aware of this type of situation and will help you move forward.

The second thing is this: you have a lot of abilities which you know nothing about, because they have not been needed so far. It is always interesting to see how surprised younger professionals are at what they can do, when their frst real job is challenging them.

I can very well relate to the anxiety you may feel, but actually this is the most interesting part of your life. If you can, enjoy the ride!

Well put. I'm 28 now, quite agree with this take on being in your 20s.

Santana28

01-14-2008, 11:27 PM

Well put. I'm 28 now, quite agree with this take on being in your 20s.

i agree. most of my life i was convinced i was either going to join the military and be a pilot, or be an architect. i studied drafting and learned the programs and took every class available and went to a vocational school to study the subject.

college didnt happen... so what did i do? i took an entry level drafting position at a local homebuilder. i worked there for a year before discovering that i hated it. i loved the pure work aspect of it, but everything else i couldn't stand.

i'm 26 and now when i look back on that decision, i'm very happy about it. i could have wasted 4 years in college and countless thousands of dollars on an education towards a career that i would come to discover i hated.

so i would definitely suggest finding work in an area aligned with your interest that will give you a better look at it, before wasting precious years of your life pursuing something fruitless.

Sylvanus

01-16-2008, 12:51 AM

Out of high school I knew I didn't want to do college. Partly because I know I'm an unmotivated procrastinator, so I would waste tens of thousands of dollars and have nothing to show for it. I went military, got experience and I got out after I served my enlistment.

I got a job at a large company, a job that most people have to have a degree for, but my experience was good enough, so I've got a decent job for now. My company, like many other large ones pays tuition for degrees in select fields. I also have the GI Bill that after financial aid and tuition, I have a small net gain (bonus).

I know now what I want to do, which is to get a law degree and become a politician. Two years ago I had the foundations of why I wanted to choose this field, but if you would have asked me then I would have told you I wanted to be an electrical engineer. Eight years ago, when I was graduating high school I would have told you I wanted to be an aeronautical engineer.
Best case scenario, if I would have gone straight to college, I would have graduated, got a good job and found myself working 80 hours a week with no overtime pay and lots of college debt. I may have been making a lot of money, but I would ultimately be unhappy and have no time to figure out a better plan for my life.

So now I'm almost two years into a four year degree. I know where I want to go with my life, I have a lot of options in case I change my mind, and I'm gainfully employed and not going tens of thousands of dollars in the hole before I even graduate.

In conclusion: the military sucks, but it opens doors. It's always good to keep your options open. It helps to know what you want to do before you start down the path, it sucks having to cut your losses and start over again. But alternatively, if you never pick a path to go down, in the long run you will just be wandering aimlessly and unhappy.

Wapiti

01-21-2008, 09:19 PM

First off, Im not 21-25ish but I relate far to well to this thread. I am 35 and experiencing much of the same things as many of you are. I have many responses to some of your posts and I'll try to address them. Hopefully it will be of some help. It is definitely a help to me to try to express myself.

You say that like 28 is old or something. I maintain that I didn't start actually living until I was 27-28. My life completely changed (no, I'm not exaggerating[sp?]). Some of it has been terrifying, and I'm not through it all yet, but I'm pretty sure it's all going to prove out to have been for the best. Of course, this may be because that's the outlook I have. I have to treat my whole life as a purposeful lesson, or I'd just be sitting pitifully in a box on a streetcorner somewhere.

I feel that (ooh, I said feel, thats been happening more as I've become older, I'm actually experiencing feelings? scary?) I am just beginning to live as well. It has definitely been terrifying for me but I am sure that all will prove to have been for the best - my outlook has recently changed as well and I believe my life has been one hell of a lesson.

Does anyone else realize that we're all mostly saying to just let yourself be free, to let go of so much self-control? Or, that even in the way we suggest letting go of so much self-control, we do things that still *look* controlled. Taking what we think is a random job, or moving to a totally new place -- it's really not that wild, but it feels that way to us. Sorry, this just kind of gave me a chuckle.

I don't think anyone here has much interest in controlling others, but we have great interest in controlling oursevles.

I believe that I have tried to remain in controll of the unctrollable that it has literally killed me. I want the last 5 years of my life to do over. I withdrew into my head so much trying to remain in control, that control is exactly what was lost.

It upsets me that I get caught up in this even though it's not the path I want. Umm... so yeah... this is a rough period in the sense that I have a lot of years left here and I really don't know where I want to go.

Was there supposed to be an answer in here? I feel like I posted like I was going to help you, but then I realize I ended just making myself confused and upset... weird.

I got caught up in a path I didn't want as well and it has been extremely rough. I see you used the word "feel" as well and that you are confused. I can relate, dealing with my feelings has been extremely confusing. I believe that my main problem has been that the few feelings I have had has been the majority of my problem. I have suppressed my feelings for atleast the past 5 years of my life. I have not dealt with them in any way and now all of a sudden, they are rising to the surface and need dealt with and sorted out in order for me to move forward. If I can give some advice, deal with those feelings.

it's easy to plan things in a controlled, predictable setting... if you're really interested in challenging and perfecting yourself, you throw yourself into uncontrollable situations and see how you do :) through the fire and the flames!

I like that quote, that you recognize that to me says much about you. I cannot quite describe how deep that hits me.

I can strongly relate to all this... I'm kind of terrified of the future because its unsecured. There are so many infinite possibilities that I can almost touch, and I'm stuck here in the present with very real opportunity cost restrictions in place. I'm very worried I'll end up paralyzed through continuous analysis and be too late to reach my dreams =\

Maybe the 20s is just a neurotic time for INTJs?

I don't think this is just for you in your 20's. This is where I am at in my mid 30's. The fact that you recognize it now I believe will put you far ahead of the curve. Don't run from these thoughts, deal with them head on. Think them through, or you just may end up paralyzed. Don't be afraid to think big - and then turn on your creativity - and big things can happen.

We have the ability to do great things, it's when we get caught up in thinking about those great things so much and forget to actually do them that causes problems.

In my mid 30's I completely agree. Do those great things, work toward them!

i'm 26 and now when i look back on that decision, i'm very happy about it.

Nothing could be better in life than to look back on your decisions and be "very happy about it." I hope my ramblings have been helpful, any questions/clarity needed, just ask.

deicruxified

01-22-2008, 12:26 AM

hahaha i do believe... this is my toughest stage... how to stabilize yourself. i graduated college 2 years ago and until now, i still can't seem to find my ground. i want to do a lot of things and excel in them but then there's the thought of nurturing the talent... if you choose 1, you stagnate the rest...

it sucks... then i realized that the reason behind choosing only one thing is that time is limited for us to do a lot of things. i did the uncanny of lessening my sleep. so far, i am progressing... i think...

then there's the preassure of getting a mate... getting married... getting kids...

everything's just banged up!!

well that's my early adult age crisis

Llen

01-23-2008, 10:29 AM

So you made it out of high school. You did an undergrad because that's what you do. You tried to ignore issues of "meaning" despite the odd meltdown during undergrad, when you woke up in a cold sweat wondering why the hell you were doing it. You're now in grad school or sinking into the swamp of entry-level industry positions.

I've got to admit - this is easily the toughest part of my life thus far. It seems like the options are basically infinite (I could excel in any field, anywhere), and yet... what do I do?

I'm in the same boat. In my twenties. I went to college (hated the program of study), studied abroad (loved it), and earned a master's (in a subject I really wanted to study) while working an entry level position. Now I'm ready for something completely different (perhaps teaching in S. Korea) but I love security and I have a few financial constraints.

The advise on this thread has been helpful thus far.

Santana28

01-23-2008, 10:33 AM

I'm in the same boat. In my twenties. I went to college (hated the program of study), studied abroad (loved it), and earned a master's (in a subject I really wanted to study) while working an entry level position. Now I'm ready for something completely different (perhaps teaching in S. Korea) but I love security and I have a few financial constraints.

The advise on this thread has been helpful thus far.

go for it. if you liked studying abroad then you'd probably like making money abroad too! go teach english in china or poland or something.. there are lots of programs out there for that. think of all the amazing people you'd meet and the life you'd be living. i'd do it in a second if i didnt have my family to consider.

you can be secure in the knowledge that you are doing something awesome!

Sylvanus

01-26-2008, 11:59 PM

it sucks... then i realized that the reason behind choosing only one thing is that time is limited for us to do a lot of things. i did the uncanny of lessening my sleep. so far, i am progressing... i think...

then there's the preassure of getting a mate... getting married... getting kids...

You think that you have a limited amount of time now? Once you get married and have kids you won't have a minutes time to do anything worthwhile outside of your family (trust me).

ginandsour

01-27-2008, 02:58 AM

thegnat

01-27-2008, 09:02 AM

I'll be 21 soon enough (junior chem major) and right now I'm beginning to look at grad schools and figure out stuff like that. What looks best for grad school as far as classes go, what I *really* want to research as far as chemistry goes, etc.

Sylvanus: That's what my chemistry prof told me last semester. It was during finals week. That...just was horrible to hear. "We're training you for real life when you'll have even less time." Less time? I barely get 6 hours of sleep at night, if that. I've got tennis, schoolwork...it takes up all my time and I'm beat by the end of the week. Then on weekends I do work. I do homework on Friday and Saturday nights most of the time. Anyway I better go, I've got a lot of stuff to do today.

Nomad

01-27-2008, 07:33 PM

Take a long look at my screen name.
If you have the chance, step out, go do something crazy. Go see stuff. Sleep on the floor of bus stations, to every type of person you can find, everything is useful. I, too, got ejected from my house at 16. Was homeless for a while, lost everything I owned. Lots of experiences since then, 27 countries, wars and peace and loves and losses.

You know what I hear now? "You are one of the coolest, most interesting people I've ever met". What you gain, what you learn by just jumping into the slipstream and figuring it out as you go, is far more valuable than a mere degree.

Now, I have that most coveted of INTJ desires. When I open my mouth, people pay close attention, and when they don't, they get overruled, because by and large, I'm usually correct.

After you've gone nomad for a bit, live by your values, but first you have to decide what they are, once you have that, stick by them, make a fact, not an abstraction.

Stand, and be true.

-Nomad

deicruxified

01-28-2008, 03:27 AM

You think that you have a limited amount of time now? Once you get married and have kids you won't have a minutes time to do anything worthwhile outside of your family (trust me).

that's what i am implying... bingo... so now, i'm trying to decide whether i'd get married and have kids or not... hahahaha

Sylvanus

01-28-2008, 09:02 AM

that's what i am implying... bingo... so now, i'm trying to decide whether i'd get married and have kids or not... hahahaha

Don't get me wrong, it does have its rewards. However, as an INTJ, a family puts a lot of demands on you that other types deal with better. I won't go into it too much here, I've stated it before in more detail on other threads: especially for me being an uber-introvert, I need time to myself and I never get it. Sometimes the only time I get by myself is the 15 minutes while I shower.

AliciaS2R

01-28-2008, 06:43 PM

amei

01-29-2008, 07:07 AM

I'm in the same boat. In my twenties. I went to college (hated the program of study), studied abroad (loved it), and earned a master's (in a subject I really wanted to study) while working an entry level position. Now I'm ready for something completely different (perhaps teaching in S. Korea) but I love security and I have a few financial constraints.

The advise on this thread has been helpful thus far.

About teaching in S. Korea - I'm currently teaching there and I would definitely recommend it, especially if you're not sure what to do back home and want a change from regular life. I'm not sure what your financial constraints are, but Korea is a great place to have a nice lifestyle for cheap and still be able to save a lot of money. If you want, I can give you some more specific advice as well. But I would encourage you to try it.

deicruxified

01-29-2008, 07:27 AM

Don't get me wrong, it does have its rewards. However, as an INTJ, a family puts a lot of demands on you that other types deal with better. I won't go into it too much here, I've stated it before in more detail on other threads: especially for me being an uber-introvert, I need time to myself and I never get it. Sometimes the only time I get by myself is the 15 minutes while I shower.

probably my worst nightmare

Sylvanus

01-29-2008, 09:09 AM

probably my worst nightmare

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Q: My INTJ keeps disappearing. Is this normal?

A: Yes. We need our “alone time” to recharge, more so than any of the other introverted MBTI types. Being around people for very long sucks the life force out of us, and we sneak off to be by ourselves whenever our “low battery” warning light starts to flash. (And in those cases where we can’t disappear physically, we will retreat into our minds.) Consequently we have great stealth capability; we can sit in a corner, observing while being unobserved, and we can escape, unnoticed, when we’re ready to move on.

My wife hates it when I do this, I showed her this link, she thought it was funny but then shrugged it off. Then she started talking, I don't remember much of what she said after that, I was somewhere else...

INTJgal

01-30-2008, 03:47 PM

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My wife hates it when I do this, I showed her this link, she thought it was funny but then shrugged it off. Then she started talking, I don't remember much of what she said after that, I was somewhere else...

why do they argue that we need more alone time than any of the other types?

Sylvanus

01-31-2008, 12:07 PM

why do they argue that we need more alone time than any of the other types?

I believe it is the Primary Ni, our minds demand more alone time to process.

Santana28

01-31-2008, 01:31 PM

why do they argue that we need more alone time than any of the other types?

yup. my husband absolutely hates it. i don't remember the last time we have actually been asleep at the same time in the same bed - we operate on completely different schedules. and i'm known to semi-frequently go out for a night on my own... he's not happy at all about that, but he of all people knows that i'm spending it alone!

INTJgal

02-01-2008, 04:11 PM

I believe it is the Primary Ni, our minds demand more alone time to process.

but then INFJs should be included too, no?

ginandsour

02-02-2008, 12:33 AM

That manual reminds me of the Hacker FAQ, surely written by INTJ:

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Sylvanus

02-04-2008, 12:56 AM

but then INFJs should be included too, no?

Maybe?

While the side by side comparison is far from conclusive, I believe the location of the Thinking function makes the difference (2nd vs 3rd). Feeling doesn't require anything special of a person, it just happens (IMO). Secondary Thinking (regardless of intro vs extraversion) coupled with Primary Intuition requires a lot more bandwidth than feeling.

Of course I could be wrong, they may both need the same amount of alone time.

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Introverted iNtuition
INTJs are idea people. Anything is possible; everything is negotiable. Whatever the outer circumstances, INTJs are ever perceiving inner pattern-forms and using real-world materials to operationalize them. Others may see what is and wonder why; INTJs see what might be and say "Why not?!" Paradoxes, antinomies, and other contradictory phenomena aptly express these intuitors' amusement at those whom they feel may be taking a particular view of reality too seriously. INTJs enjoy developing unique solutions to complex problems.

Extraverted Thinking
Thinking in this auxiliary role is a workhorse. Closure is the payoff for efforts expended. Evaluation begs diagnosis; product drives process. As they come to light, Thinking tends, protects, affirms and directs iNtuition's offspring, fully equipping them for fulfilling and useful lives. A faithful pedagogue, Thinking argues not so much on its own behalf, but in defense of its charges. And through this process these impressionable ideas take on the likeness of their master.

Introverted Feeling
Feeling has a modest inner room, two doors down from the Most Imminent iNtuition. It doesn't get out much, but lends its influence on behalf of causes which are Good and Worthy and Humane. We may catch a glimpse of it in the unspoken attitude of good will, or the gracious smile or nod. Some question the existence of Feeling in this type, yet its unseen balance to Thinking is a cardinal dimension in the full measure of the INTJ's soul.

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Introverted iNtuition
Introverted intuitives, INFJs enjoy a greater clarity of perception of inner, unconscious processes than all but their INTJ cousins. Just as SP types commune with the object and "live in the here and now" of the physical world, INFJs readily grasp the hidden psychological stimuli behind the more observable dynamics of behavior and affect. Their amazing ability to deduce the inner workings of the mind, will and emotions of others gives INFJs their reputation as prophets and seers. Unlike the confining, routinizing nature of introverted sensing, introverted intuition frees this type to act insightfully and spontaneously as unique solutions arise on an event by event basis.

Extraverted Feeling
Extraverted feeling, the auxiliary deciding function, expresses a range of emotion and opinions of, for and about people. INFJs, like many other FJ types, find themselves caught between the desire to express their wealth of feelings and moral conclusions about the actions and attitudes of others, and the awareness of the consequences of unbridled candor. Some vent the attending emotions in private, to trusted allies. Such confidants are chosen with care, for INFJs are well aware of the treachery that can reside in the hearts of mortals. This particular combination of introverted intuition and extraverted feeling provides INFJs with the raw material from which perceptive counselors are shaped.

Introverted Thinking
The INFJ's thinking is introverted, turned toward the subject. Perhaps it is when the INFJ's thinking function is operative that he is most aloof. A comrade might surmise that such detachment signals a disillusionment, that she has also been found lacking by the sardonic eye of this one who plumbs the depths of the human spirit. Experience suggests that such distancing is merely an indication that the seer is hard at work and focusing energy into this less efficient tertiary function.

deicruxified

02-04-2008, 03:02 AM

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My wife hates it when I do this, I showed her this link, she thought it was funny but then shrugged it off. Then she started talking, I don't remember much of what she said after that, I was somewhere else...

yes...i used to have a nagging bf before hehehe the classical "screensaver mode" :) i love it

coffeeloverfreak

02-04-2008, 05:33 PM

This is a really good thread. I can relate because this was me just a few years ago.

Like most of you, I followed the "path". Grade school led to high school. High school led to university. Out of university, I took a short (planned) summer trip to Europe and launched straight into my career. I did everything because it was "next"; it was expected on the typical life path, and I didn't stop to think too hard about whether it was what I really wanted.

Three years into my career and I was already totally, completely burnt out. At 25. I mean, eek, right? I'd been lucky enough to land in a great job right out of school, almost by accident. I'd advanced quickly, achieved a lot, but got to the point where I just didn't see the point. The only place to go for me within my company was to a role I wasn't ready for and had no interest in - namely, sales and business development - and I was in a field that I didn't see the point in pursuing otherwise. I didn't quite know how I got to where I was, but I knew I wasn't happy and it was time for a change. But I didn't know what.

Like most of you, I did some soul-searching. But things came to a head and, long story short, I ended up quitting my job and taking off with my backpack and a passport on a 4-month RTW trip.

I love to travel and this was the trip of a lifetime for me. It had ups and downs but I saw and experienced a whole lot, and learned a lot about myself. Unfortunately the things I learned were more in "retrospect" than actionable at the time. I don't regret going for a second - in fact, I highly recommend traveling as much as possible to anyone with the interest or the opportunity.

But the road is also full of career break-ers and quarter-life-crisis people just like I was. All of them left home looking for something within themslves. And most didn't have any more of a clue when they got home as they did when they left. On the road, everyone's the same. You meet a zillion people who become nameless faces that you had a beer with in [insert random city here]. Every conversation starts with "where are you from / where are you going / where have you been?" For introverts like us it can be draining to have to make small talk with so many random strangers in a new place each couple of days. Many traveler spots are packed full of the annoying party people that we find so grating in everyday life. And it's scary to realize how easy it is to just become invisible.

But in many ways it's great, too. Being on the road gives you a chance to experiment, to let go of who you always have been in order to experiment with who you think you could become. It's like trying on clothes; even if they don't fit, it's fun to play dress-up in expensive couture once in a while. For me it was like that. I could let loose and be someone completely different than I am at home, because nobody knew me and nobody cared. I could hook up with random guys, get drunk and dance on tables, even go skydiving - and it was all okay because it wasn't really me, it was someone else. And of course, there's so much beauty and culture and history everywhere, and learning new languages and experiencing new things in different parts of the world is highly addictive (as I'm sure the other travelers will concur).

One thing that emerged from all of this was my love of travel as a hobby, and the social circle I built as a result, with other travelaholics like myself. I also found that, for someone like me with a lot of social anxiety, having my travel tales to tell at parties made it easier for me to find conversation with strangers. It's a useful, if draining, skill to practice.

When I got home, my bank account was empty, my confidence was shot, and I didn't think I would ever dig myself out of the depression that I sunk into. The job hunt took a while, mostly because I wasn't interested in anything and had no clue what kind of job I wanted. It was one of the worst times of my life.

I finally ended up in a job that was a terrible fit, and spent the next six months looking for a better job so I could quit. When I finally found one - my current job - it wasn't exactly in my old field but it was close enough. I went right back into the high-burnout industry I was in before, risks and all, recognizing that there's a part of my personality that's just too bored with anything else. And I knew enough to learn to take it slower, to concentrate more on the work-life balance, and to understand what makes me tick.

All this to say that it's not always linear, but sometimes going through stuff like that teaches you more about yourself. It's just not always self-evident right away.

colmdubh

02-27-2008, 02:53 PM

Really think about what you'd like to do and head in that direction, that's what I had to do...I chose teaching because I can get certified to teach different subjects and I could excel at most of them if I wanted to...before I had wanted to do business computing but thought the field would be too limited, plus you get 3 months off for teaching of course, it is hard though dealing with students

quest ion

03-19-2008, 08:57 AM

Ah.. are we mostly like this??? Maby it's really nothing to do with this jung test.. jus part of life.. growing up.. settling down.

which is boring and sucky!

(but not when you have someone by your side though..hehe)

Quite Robert

03-19-2008, 10:06 AM

This is a great thread. The advice and personal stories everyone is sharing are really valuable to me and I am sure they are to the others reading this thread who are looking for answers as well. Keep it going.

My story is similiar to many of you. I have been working my way up the ladder at landsurveying firm that I started at as a field hand when I was 14. After highschool I went to college because that is what you do. I had a terrible time finding a major that held my attention well enough to finish but finally ended up with a degree in History 5 and a half years later. I couldn't wait to leave my dead end job even though I had worked my way to being a VP (its a very small company). So I go to career fairs thinking that my work history might make up for my liberal arts degree, but instead I was universally rejected by the companies in the field I thought I wanted to get into, energy. So here I am almost 24 working at the same place I was when I was 14, no prospects, plans shattered, and the worst part is that I put SO much time and effort into my broken plans that I don't know if I have the energy left to restart. I have started buisness school but it is torturously boring (nothing I couldn't have learned from buying a few books). I am lost and have no idea where I am headed and for someone as neurotic and self-controlled as I am it might just drive me insane.
Thanks for this thread it may not have solved my problem but at least I no I am not the only one to go throuhg this.

eternaltriangle

03-20-2008, 07:06 AM

I'm 26 now and went through the same thing. The best decision I made to help alieveate that "at sea" feeling was to talk to a professor who was most like me and explain what I felt. He told me I should be a professor, lol.

I think it is a tendency of professors, but academics like to encourage other people to be academics.

It must be the sadist in me... get a 5-year degree on top of undergrad for a job with starting salaries marginally above average and far from guaranteed advancement!

PortInStorm

03-24-2008, 09:39 PM

Yes, but you get to intellectually explore for a living!

Parallel

03-24-2008, 10:24 PM

TheLastMohican

03-24-2008, 10:44 PM

I'm having a major early life crisis. One part of me wants to move to LA and become an actress and another part of me wants to become a serious doctor.

I feel like if I pick either one I will regret not doing the other.

What kind of acting are you looking to do?

Have you been told you are good at it? Do you have the looks?

(The latter two might sound like brutal questions, but I'm trying to keep you down to earth here. There's no problem with big aspirations, but you need something to back them up.)

Sylvanus

03-24-2008, 11:24 PM

Parallel

03-25-2008, 12:10 AM

What kind of acting are you looking to do?

Have you been told you are good at it? Do you have the looks?

(The latter two might sound like brutal questions, but I'm trying to keep you down to earth here. There's no problem with big aspirations, but you need something to back them up.)

Ohh, I love brutal questions. The problem is yes, my acting teacher loves me and wants to send me out on every casting that I could possibly be fit for and other actors have told me, "you have a naturalness about you." As for the looks, I model so I think I am not too unattractive.

I know moving out to LA sounds irrational and somewhat completely stupid but I wouldn't even think of it if I didn't think it was a "do or die" situation for me. If I did move out there, I'd claw my way through whatever to get where I want to.

As for wanting to be a doctor, there's a little voice in my head that says, "what if I don't get to be the actress I want to, or it takes too long? Then I'll be too old to have the energy to go back to school and make it through med school." Medicine also fascinates me and my mother is a doctor so I see how being one would benefit my future family and it appeals to me because I want a job with prestige that also does some good. When I told people I wanted to be a doctor, I was surprised to hear, "Oh, I'm not surprised, I could totally see you as a doctor." But I never liked school and though I would go through with it, it still pisses me off that it takes 8 years to become a physician. Not to mention residency and by then I'm scared that I'll say I worked all that for a life of what might be misery.

I think I'm too idealistic in thinking about both. This really bothers me to the point that I wish I could just be a homeless man panhandling and smoking crack whenever I want to in my little trailer.

futureperfect5

03-25-2008, 12:27 AM

as someone BEYOND (don't go there ;)) the stated age group ... I want to leave you guys with a few thoughts.

The world has changed in this regard: planning your career / profession will never be "over" ...
... neither will study and training -- you are going to learn, learn, learn for the rest of your life.

I have 12 certifications and 5 credentials after my name, and still it is not enough.

SAVE all of your papers and have a euro version of your life / professional and academic history ... (I use scribd.com - spock.com and a few others online to support this).

Keep a few of your parents friends "in the loop" on your activities -- and at least 2/3 professors.

[These are all things that I didn't do before I spent 15 years outside the country ...it has been really difficult returning to zero references or personal ties. I am a complete stranger here ... for years I only knew the names of the people in my grocery store and my hairstylist.]

So you made it out of high school. You did an undergrad because that's what you do. You tried to ignore issues of "meaning" despite the odd meltdown during undergrad, when you woke up in a cold sweat wondering why the hell you were doing it. You're now in grad school or sinking into the swamp of entry-level industry positions.

I've got to admit - this is easily the toughest part of my life thus far. It seems like the options are basically infinite (I could excel in any field, anywhere), and yet... what do I do?

TheLastMohican

03-25-2008, 09:43 AM

The problem is yes, my acting teacher loves me and wants to send me out on every casting that I could possibly be fit for and other actors have told me, "you have a naturalness about you."

Is it possible that it is your teacher's dream, and not yours?

I know moving out to LA sounds irrational and somewhat completely stupid but I wouldn't even think of it if I didn't think it was a "do or die" situation for me. If I did move out there, I'd claw my way through whatever to get where I want to.

Unfortunately, there is often nothing to claw at, just a vacuum of disinterest.
But if you are going to make such a move, that is the attitude you need to have. Be relentless and persistent, if that is what you truly want.

Some people confuse that mentality with a willingness to be pushed around, however. If there is a role you find distasteful, you don't have to take it just to break into the business. That is how people end being disastrously typecast in roles they don't like, and often the can never get away from it.

As for wanting to be a doctor, there's a little voice in my head that says, "what if I don't get to be the actress I want to, or it takes too long? Then I'll be too old to have the energy to go back to school and make it through med school."

That is a very difficult dilemma. It is very hard to weigh your chances of success. The doctor route would be more "secure," but think of this way also: If you become a doctor, it will soon be too late to become an actress. You will become deeply settled in your job, and soon it will be too much hassle to try to do anything else.

You might be able to explore both, though. You can audition for small projects, and you might not even need to go LA (believe it or not, LA is not the only place to make movies). If you find success in a small project, that can bring you to larger ones much more quickly than trying to break into the large ones from the beginning. Take the back door; The security guards aren't watching it, but the talent scouts are. The opposite is true in the front.

Medicine also fascinates me and my mother is a doctor so I see how being one would benefit my future family and it appeals to me because I want a job with prestige that also does some good. When I told people I wanted to be a doctor, I was surprised to hear, "Oh, I'm not surprised, I could totally see you as a doctor." But I never liked school and though I would go through with it, it still pisses me off that it takes 8 years to become a physician. Not to mention residency and by then I'm scared that I'll say I worked all that for a life of what might be misery.

It does sound like you might not like being a doctor. Not liking school really gets in the way.

Rei

03-25-2008, 09:54 AM

soundchaser

04-06-2008, 11:44 PM

As soon as I hit college, it didn't take long for me to figure out that my chosen field of study (computer science / electrical engineering), just didn't fit. Ever since then, I've never really known where I was headed, or for what real reason. For a while I wanted to work in the news, until I took an internship in a newsroom, and was bored off my ass after a few weeks. I ended up with a social sciences degree, which, if not that marketable, was an interesting experience.

At this point I needed to do something, and not liking my job prospects, decided on law school, not so much because I liked the idea of being a lawyer, but I figured I'd be good at it, and the money didn't hurt. It didn't take a but a couple weeks before a major natural disaster totally fubared those plans, and in retrospect (and as I've met more real lawyers), I see it as a get-out-of-jail-free card.

Since then, for over two years now, I've been self-employed doing various sorts of computer work. This came under the "do what you're passionate about" paradigm, and while I am generally happy with my work, and how I get along with my customers, I just can't see doing this forever. I know I need to change my life again, but I just can't figure out what I should do. When I'm not busy, it just really drives me nuts, the decision paralysis, that is. BTW, a great book (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) on that very subject.

It doesn't seem to matter how much introspection I go though. I wish it were easier to get a job, or start a grad degree, if only to be able to make a snap decision, and have to live with it some days.

Rei

04-07-2008, 10:02 AM

It doesn't seem to matter how much introspection I go though. I wish it were easier to get a job, or start a grad degree, if only to be able to make a snap decision, and have to live with it some days.

If only!
I keep doubting my career choice thesedays, but there's nothing I could imagine doing that could be any better without me having to start from scratch... which is where my long-term planning all falls apart, and I'm not quite willing to let that happen. The problem is too, that if I do something I enjoy, I probably won't make very much. Doing something semi-rewarding plus good pay seems to be a 'good' place to settle... if only I didn't continuously wish I'd just gone into something more interesting.

I think for the most part, I'm counting on my semi-rewarding job making lots of money so I could spare time (and money) on the fun (and often expensive) stuff in life.

True Rune

04-07-2008, 06:19 PM

I'll be 21 soon enough, and I've just figured out my major, and I'm only a sophmore. ><;
I'm just beginning to figure out who I am, and what I want to do.. Through God's grace..

curiousjane

04-07-2008, 06:26 PM

I'm having a major early life crisis. One part of me wants to move to LA and become an actress and another part of me wants to become a serious doctor.

I feel like if I pick either one I will regret not doing the other.

Okay, I am going to be totally facetious here ...

Be both. Play a doctor on Grey's Anatomy or ER or such.

:p

curiousjane added to this post, 3 minutes and 22 seconds later...

I had the opportunity to hit my quaterlife crisis a year early when the job I *thought* I wanted turned out to be the job I *actually* hated, despite having a good salary for right out of college (for my area, that is).

Now, in my upper twentysomething years, I've been at my current, less glamorous position for a while now. I'm looking for something else, and in the meantime exploring educational and occupational options, as well as doing some serious soul-searching.

(Do INTJs do this? Soul-searching, that is? Or this a strictly INFP thing ... being true to the true self ... yadda yadda ... It's exhausting, really ... I wish I didn't care so much!)