INTJ "emotional needs"

[m0nk3y]

Hi everyone. If any of your INTJ's can help me out I'd be very grateful. My wife (INTJ) and I (INTP) are going through some relationship struggles recently. Our relationship has always been very strong and we were both drawn to each other very early on because we could relate intellectually and on many other levels. I am realizing that I am having trouble meeting her "emotional needs" recently. For a woman this is the largest part of a relationship and the foundation for love. In short what are the best ways to show affection for my INTJ wife? What are the deepest emotional needs for an INTJ female? I have mapped out what I feel many of them are but would love some other INTJ input.

[Paul V]

Not a female, but perhaps I'd be able to help. Maybe she'd appreciate if you paid attention to her more, remembering what she says, and doing the little things she likes. If she's anything like the INTJ women of this forum, she won't be particularly drawn to huge displays of romance and affection, but will definitely love if you did some of the little things she thinks are too small for you to remember.

Being an independent person, she's probably used to doing everything by herself, which doesn't mean she doesn't appreciate a helping hand every once in a while. Just make sure you've observed the way she does things carefully. If you do it wrong, she might just end up pissed.

[m0nk3y]

I think your point about the small things is spot on. I also believe that getting the details incorrect is an issue. What I might see as sort of funny or cute in getting details wrong but still trying is missed on her. She is very action focused where as intention means way less to her.

She like all INTJ's is very planning focused. Does it meet her needs for affection to be involved in that process? I traditionally as an INTP have been hands off in this area. If It helps her emotionally to be involved, what are the best ways to do this? How can I show her feeling or empathy here? This area is only a hunch of mine at the moment.

[ssfanatic]

I think your point about the small things is spot on. I also believe that getting the details incorrect is an issue. What I might see as sort of funny or cute in getting details wrong but still trying is missed on her. She is very action focused where as intention means way less to her.

She like all INTJ's is very planning focused. Does it meet her needs for affection to be involved in that process? I traditionally as an INTP have been hands off in this area. If It helps her emotionally to be involved, what are the best ways to do this? How can I show her feeling or empathy here? This area is only a hunch of mine at the moment.
All of the INTJ' i have talked to value small talk very little, so thats not going to gain her affection. The good news is, INTJ's by definition value relationships and will attempt to "make things work". This doesnt mean she will be able to change her personality, but maybe rather look over the little things.
But in relating to her emotionally, im a guy so my views may be different, but a hug, a bouquet of flowers, and a trip out to eat are all things (femanized of course) that i value. But dont dance around the point when talking about the relationship, just go straight to the facts, those are what really matter.

[Learning]

Hi everyone. If any of your INTJ's can help me out I'd be very grateful. My wife (INTJ) and I (INTP) are going through some relationship struggles recently...What are the best ways to show affection for my INTJ wife? What are the deepest emotional needs for an INTJ female?
Have you thought of just asking her? INTJ's value honesty & directness. It may not sound romantic to some, but she may just appreciate your concern/effort to meet her needs, period...talking can be romantic. Ideas of romance vary from person to person, so maybe tell her you want to do something romantic for her...and ask her what she would like.

Just a few suggestions...maybe set up some undivided quality time, or contribute in some way to her interests (i.e.-if she likes painting, buy her a new set of brushes). Also, flowers & chocolate usually never hurt (unless she's allergic:stunned:, or just plain hates them). Either way, you'd want to make sure you pick up on the details (i.e.-what kind of flowers does she like?). That will be likely to make it more special for her.

[Paul V]

I think your point about the small things is spot on. I also believe that getting the details incorrect is an issue. What I might see as sort of funny or cute in getting details wrong but still trying is missed on her. She is very action focused where as intention means way less to her.

She like all INTJ's is very planning focused. Does it meet her needs for affection to be involved in that process? I traditionally as an INTP have been hands off in this area. If It helps her emotionally to be involved, what are the best ways to do this? How can I show her feeling or empathy here? This area is only a hunch of mine at the moment.

You could ask her what makes her happy (in a non-obvious way), and trying to accomplish what you can.

You can pay attention to her plans, and try to remember them, asking her if she's interested in your opinion. More often than not, we INTJs just want someone we can share our schemes with. And if she wants your opinion, don't limit yourself to simply criticising what's wrong. Complement her on what you think has been particularly clever, funny, useful or the like.




EDIT: The key of all these advices is honesty. You have to really mean what you say. If you don't think you mean it, don't say it. INTJs are very intuitive, specially with those we know, and if she has a low T, then even worse. If she realises you're faking interest, then she'll feel horrible and/or angered.

[m0nk3y]

...
Have you thought of just asking her? INTJ's value honesty & directness.

...

Yes I have. The issue is that she feels these are things I should know already because she feels she has communicated them in the past. Her communication is saying it once and expecting I will have it all cataloged. Needless to say as an INTP male I have not been real clued in on some of these--what I have considered--minor details. I usually do not take these things as super important until it begins to build up in some regard. We are at that point right now. My asking her will only set her off as though I don't care because I am in the black on these details.

[Learning]

Yes I have. The issue is that she feels these are things I should know already because she feels she has communicated them in the past. Her communication is saying it once and expecting I will have it all cataloged. Needless to say as an INTP male I have not been real clued in on some of these--what I have considered--minor details. I usually do not take these things as super important until it begins to build up in some regard. We are at that point right now. My asking her will only set her off as though I don't care because I am in the black on these details.
What about asking someone close to her about the details (so you don't set her off- just to plan one special evening for her so you can get the ball rolling)? This may help to at least send the message that you're trying to be romantic & are interested in her emotional needs.

INTJ's don't usually confide too much in many people, but if you can find the right person to help you may hit the jackpot. Just a sidenote: don't get discouraged if she agrees to join you, but is still upset for a while. She may want to see the change over time to be sure it's real.

Would taking notes in the future be out of the question?

If the building up gets to the point that you think it would be useful/necessary, you could even suggest some kind of relationship counselling/therapy or just getting insight/advice from someone she respects.

INTJ's usually value expertise (and may see the desire to work on things as a sign of hope, and an opportunity for improvement...unless she has a deep seeded aversion to that sort of thing:uneasy:).

[Paul V]

Yes I have. The issue is that she feels these are things I should know already because she feels she has communicated them in the past. Her communication is saying it once and expecting I will have it all cataloged. Needless to say as an INTP male I have not been real clued in on some of these--what I have considered--minor details. I usually do not take these things as super important until it begins to build up in some regard. We are at that point right now. My asking her will only set her off as though I don't care because I am in the black on these details.

Start paying attention, and start showing her profound displays that you're trying. She has to be convinced that you really do want things to be better.

Eventually, she will understand that the relationship requires effort from both parts, and she'll sigh and try to help you.

But most importantly: You must not give up. If you do, you'll be proving right that nagging little voice in her head that tells her you're not worth fighting for, that she'll be better off without you. Sorry for being blunt, but every single rational I've met (not just INTJs) have that nagging voice of logic and efficiency that sometimes you really don't want to listen.

Best of luck, btw.

[Hoorurly]

I'm and INTJ female. I think my greatest emotional need was just to have space and alone time. Something my husband had a hard time with because he is just the opposite.

I'm guessing that your wife is having trouble communicating what her emotional needs are or otherwise you would not be asking the question. But she is really the only one that can give you the answer.

[Santana28]

Trust, and faith in her. Not because she has to do anything to earn it, but by mere acknowledgment of who she is (inside).

Don't question her decisions or personal requests out of respect for her decision making abilities, unless she asks for your input. Difficult... i know :) But if you married her, then you value her and an INTJ's self value is wrapped up in our ability to use sound judgement. someone who respects us for that means more than the world.

[m0nk3y]

One thing I find most dificult about being with an INTJ female is the obvious lack of visible emotion. It is very masculine in nature. Coupled with her need for space and independence and I end up being the emotional female persona here. It's funny because I am not a feminine guy at all. Are all INTJ women this way? I mean it becomes hard to tell if she is even participating in the relationship at times. My guy friends get in trouble if they do not inform their wives about having a drink with the guys and making it home late. My wife seems to never have these sorts of typical female paterns or demands. What tends to be the case in this area with INTJ women?

[Santana28]

One thing I find most dificult about being with an INTJ female is the obvious lack of visible emotion. It is very masculine in nature. Coupled with her need for space and independence and I end up being the emotional female persona here. It's funny because I am not a feminine guy at all. Are all INTJ women this way? I mean it becomes hard to tell if she is even participating in the relationship at times. My guy friends get in trouble if they do not inform their wives about having a drink with the guys and making it home late. My wife seems to never have these sorts of typical female paterns or demands. What tends to be the case in this area with INTJ women?

LOL...you described me, to a T. i dont know about her, but to me trust is a choice and if i'm with you it is because i trust and understand your inner motivations and i know what is important to you and "what makes you happy, makes me happy." i think we see our partner as a genuine partner - an equal at best - and that negates any sense of "possession" or "jealousy" of having to share you with other people. at least, that is how it is for me.

what i cant understand are guys who get upset because their women don't get upset over them :) well, i understand... but i just think its silly (thats not directed at you, btw).

[Danisty]

Yes I have. The issue is that she feels these are things I should know already because she feels she has communicated them in the past. Her communication is saying it once and expecting I will have it all cataloged. Needless to say as an INTP male I have not been real clued in on some of these--what I have considered--minor details. I usually do not take these things as super important until it begins to build up in some regard. We are at that point right now. My asking her will only set her off as though I don't care because I am in the black on these details.I have to admit I really do hate repeating myself. Generally, if it was worth saying, it was important to me. Otherwise, I wouldn't have bothered anyone with it. Have you thought of taking notes?

Trust, and faith in her. Not because she has to do anything to earn it, but by mere acknowledgment of who she is (inside).

Don't question her decisions or personal requests out of respect for her decision making abilities, unless she asks for your input. Difficult... i know :) But if you married her, then you value her and an INTJ's self value is wrapped up in our ability to use sound judgement. someone who respects us for that means more than the world.And when it all falls apart, don't say "I told you so." We already have that playing in our head. I don't know about other INTJ women, but I quietly beat myself up pretty well and don't need any additional criticism. If people just give me sometime to go over it all in my head, I'll usually go to them and request the criticism so I don't screw it up again.

Also, I don't know if you are or not, but try your best not to procrastinate on things she asks you to do. I doubt she expects an immediate response, but if she's having to ask you several times, she probably feels like you're disrespecting her and may even make her feel like the parent. There is nothing at all sexy about feeling like your spouse's mother.





Danisty added to this post, 8 minutes and 45 seconds later...

One thing I find most dificult about being with an INTJ female is the obvious lack of visible emotion. It is very masculine in nature. Coupled with her need for space and independence and I end up being the emotional female persona here. It's funny because I am not a feminine guy at all. Are all INTJ women this way? I mean it becomes hard to tell if she is even participating in the relationship at times. My guy friends get in trouble if they do not inform their wives about having a drink with the guys and making it home late. My wife seems to never have these sorts of typical female paterns or demands. What tends to be the case in this area with INTJ women?It's interesting that you describe it as masculine because I actually feel much more masculine than feminine most of the time. I don't have to ask my husband about these things because if we went out and did our own thing, we'd end up in the same place anyway. We have all the same friends. ;D The only time I have questions like this is when it's practical to know (for example how many people I'm cooking dinner for).

LOL...you described me, to a T. i dont know about her, but to me trust is a choice and if i'm with you it is because i trust and understand your inner motivations and i know what is important to you and "what makes you happy, makes me happy." i think we see our partner as a genuine partner - an equal at best - and that negates any sense of "possession" or "jealousy" of having to share you with other people. at least, that is how it is for me.

what i cant understand are guys who get upset because their women don't get upset over them :) well, i understand... but i just think its silly (thats not directed at you, btw).My husband and I are not jealous people. We're both really secure with the relationship and trust each other. Hell, we even tell each other who we think is hot. I just can't imagine being in a relationship where I had to second guess everything.

[PortInStorm]

Spot on (previously mentioned):
- we automatically assume we have to depend on ourselves for everything. If you help us with it, just to be gentlemanly, it's really nice.
- we do have this thing in our heads "would I be better off alone?" "Would it be less trouble?"- not that we're lazy in relationships, but it IS an efficiency thing. "Would I have to clean less, have more time to study.." etc. And this is only relieved by having that weak feeling area bolstered (at least for me).
- and interacting with our ideas, showing interest, asking intelligent questions

And yes, mOnk3y, I can see that in my marriage. I don't have a cell, neither does my husband, and people seem surprised that I don't know where he is. He's also the one who talks on the phone more, arranges the social activities, and yet as you say, he's masculine (works outside all day, cuts down trees, works on trucks etc). Maybe this has to do with our supposed characteristic of being able to enjoy without "owning".

As an INTJ wife, I'd love it if I knew my husband took the effort to find out about what I needed (have you told her you've come here for advice? Romantic...). I like affectionate touching, bringing me information/links on my current topic of interest, sharing equally in household stuff, I love it when my husband takes care of the mundane bills etc., and plans stuff for us to do together (which is great because it gets me in Sensing mode as relief from constant N).

And if we actually do have an outburst of emotion, whatever that emotion is (as long as we're not being verbally abusive), don't disapprove of it. That just makes us want to act completely robotic, like we can't trust you with our passion.

[Firelie]

As an INTJ female, the only things I've noticed a need for (as yet) have been: space when I need it, but not being completely ignored either...and having someone interested in my opinions and ideas makes me quite happy as well. I'm not sure if those count as "emotional needs", but eh...I wish you the best of luck.

[MichaelH]

Her communication is saying it once and expecting I will have it all cataloged. Needless to say as an INTP male I have not been real clued in on some of these--what I have considered--minor details.

This is a huge red flag for me. Her expectation for you is not logical. You may want to point this out to her - in a factual, neutral tone! It's not healthy for you to have to hang on her every word for her to be satisfied. It's appropriate for her to emphasize or repeat herself when something's really important to her.

When communicating with my spouse, I've learned to say, "This is really important to me", or at least expect to repeat myself a few times. After all, I'm likely to miss something he says occasionally, and I want the same room for error. If she's not giving you that leeway, that's something she can fix.

On the other hand, if she does say "This is really important:", then INTP or not, you'd better listen. :stunned:

[Firelie]

Sorry, I didn't have time to read the entire thread earlier when I posted...

One thing I find most dificult about being with an INTJ female is the obvious lack of visible emotion. It is very masculine in nature. Coupled with her need for space and independence and I end up being the emotional female persona here. It's funny because I am not a feminine guy at all. Are all INTJ women this way? I mean it becomes hard to tell if she is even participating in the relationship at times. My guy friends get in trouble if they do not inform their wives about having a drink with the guys and making it home late. My wife seems to never have these sorts of typical female paterns or demands. What tends to be the case in this area with INTJ women?

Yeah, that's pretty typical for me. The guy always seems to come out as feminine even when he's not the least bit feminine. I don't know yet whether this bothers them or not.

One of my pet peeves is having to inform people when I'm going to do stuff on my own, so you know...do unto others...besides, if a person is an adult, I expect them to behave as an adult...expecting someone to tell me what they're doing and when they're going to do it is a bit too much like a mother/child relationship for my liking. I wouldn't expect a mate to tell me things like that unless it was going to interfere with some other plans we had together.

[Diana]

Everything everyone has said so far is so true. Good observations everyone!

Here's just one more shot in the dark: So, she's told you how she best feels loved, before, but since you may not completely remember what that was....what about-- observing how she attempts to love you? It would seem quite possible that the way someone best feels loved might also be the way they show their love.

For instance, does she give you frequent verbal compliments or encouragement? Or...is her way of showing love for you more like spending lots of quality, uninterrupted time with you? Does she give you lots of little/big gifts here and there? Perform random acts of service for you to make your life easier? Give you a hug, massage, or pat on the back when you're having a hard day?

Long ago, my parents had us read this book called The Five Love Languages, by Gary Chapman (it sounds kinda hokey, I know), but its been a huge help to me as a person, and to our family as individuals. The insights above come from that book; the basic premise is that there are five different love languages that people speak:
1) Words of Affirmation
2) Quality time
3) Receiving Gifts
4) Acts of Service
5) Physical Touch (more like "affection" - not as much sexual physical touch)

and...I think its possible to "speak" a couple of them.
Here's an example of where it comes in handy: My love languages are both gifts and words of affirmation, while my mom feels most loved when someone spends a long amount of quality time with her. So, for say, a birthday gift, my general inclination is to spend a sacrificial amount of money on a super nice gift for her, and write her a glowing, gushy card about how she's the most wonderful mother. But (when I've done that before), I always am disappointed with her reaction-- it doesn't seem to really mean that much to her. Instead, now that I've really realized that quality time makes her feel loved, I'll clear my schedule for a day, spend the whole day with her, take her out to lunch to "catch up" with her, etc. I can always tell it means SO much to her.

Anyway, there are many ways to show love to a person, but I've personally found this approach really helpful and applicable. You are a good man and husband for trying to figure out how to best love your wife - I wish you well!

[m0nk3y]

Wow. Excellent posts. I really enjoy talking with INTJ's because it meets my need for logic and clarity of sorts. There is some very great and insightful stuff here. In truth it is not things I don't know about her but it makes me feel a lot better hearing that this stuff is very common for other INTJ females.

How do most of you see the male female dynamic playing out in your relationships being that the INTJ comes across as masculine. What is your need for masculine traits in your husband or BF vs feminine emotional traits? Do you feel more of a need for "feeling" to be coming from your mate? I grew up in a traditional Male/Female household where my father was very male and my mother very female. She grew up in a household where her mother was very male and her father very female and feeling centric. I wonder if this plays in even further on top of her already masculine INTJ traits? It's funny because she looks extremely feminine and you would never know.





m0nk3y added to this post, 15 minutes and 5 seconds later...

Great insights Diana. This is REALLY helpful stuff. I had come across this stuff a while back in my college days. I've recently felt that her top areas of affection are:
1) Words of affirmation
2) Acts of service
3) Receiving Gifts

In that order.

Part of our problem is that we have had competitive moments in our relationship. In the beginning especially, we intellectually challenged each other for some sort of dominance often. My critical INTP nature came out a lot and I speculate that not only did I not affirm her enough but I also maybe did worse by being critical. I never meant to do this and did not see it as an issue at the time. I always felt she just knew I thought she was brilliant because she was so confident and aloof naturally. I didn't feel like I needed to add to that. If that makes sense? Other than that I've always been a nice easy going guy. I now make sure I tell her how wonderful she is in my life especially for little things when I come across them. It takes time thought to repair a history of sub par behavior in this area. ;)

[PortInStorm]

Odd, but I feel like I need even more masculinity from my husband- in actions and appearance ie. I don't want him getting manicures/waxing, doing too much with his hair and clothes (or he'd be prettier than me!). It's not fair to the metrosexuals (which in theory I have no problem with), but otherwise I'd feel way too masculine. BUT, if he was an old-fashioned male dolt (rough emotionally, all sports, neglected birthdays etc) in the emotional arena, I couldn't have stayed past date #2. I think a lot of NTs are very sensitive inside, and partners need to be tender.

I also think that Love Languages thing is helpful- my husband likes acts of service, and I like physical affection and words of affirmation (and you're so right when you say that we look like we don't need those words, but we llloooooong for them). At least I do.

Just want to clarify that my husband is already at that masculine level- need him to be masculine, not MORE masculine than he already is.

[Santana28]

i agree about the masculinity thing. i happen to think we INTJ women are dangerous to date... you simply will not be the same person you were before you got into it, unless you are absolutely confident in yourself as we are... i think thats somewhat the point.

i am not normally "feminine" at all. i dont dress like a girl, or think like a girl, or talk like a girl, or enjoy "girly" things. to me - girly might as well be a synonym for "impractical" to me. i don't pretend and play dress up to impress anyone, and i expect anyone worth knowing to understand that about me.

i have no difficulty being "feminine" and acting as such - but only for one who deserves it and sees what a valuable gift that is from me. most of my relationships have begun with my being fairly feminine and he being fairly masculine - and after time, the process flips. not to scare you, but most of the men i have been with have turned out to have homosexual tendencies that they were compensating for (heightening their masculinity purposefully) which sooner or later manifested itself in one way or another.

being with an INTJ is like being with a mirror... one that doesn't lie.

[m0nk3y]

Well she has always been very feminine. She is a beautiful slender woman who loves to dress like a woman. Even from a young age she refused to wear pants like the boys and would only wear a dress to school. Obviously now that she is older she dresses however she likes. She loves to shop and do all the "girly" things. She also seems to connect well enough with other women. I conversely am very masculine, heterosexual and extremely confident (sometimes arrogant :( ). It has only been her that has been able to shake my confidence and that gets to me, from time to time, in all honesty. I am much more used to dealing with a partner who I am intellectually superior to. My wife and I are very equal in this area and I think that is what we really enjoy about each other on many levels. I love being challenged and having somebody who can comprehend and understand my INTP theoretical thinking. Most other women would just smile and pretend they understood.





m0nk3y added to this post, 32 minutes and 7 seconds later...

Also, How often do INTJ women like to be contacted during the work day? Most other women seem to like a random phone call during the day or something along those lines. With my wife I could go without calling her all day and never hear from her. She never has any anger or resentment of any sort if I do not contact her. I personally enjoy it if she checks in with me from time to time. She seems to only do this when planning of some sort is taking place. Is this common for most of you?

[The Rose]

...
Great insights Diana. This is REALLY helpful stuff. I had come across this stuff a while back in my college days. I've recently felt that her top areas of affection are:
1) Words of affirmation
2) Acts of service
3) Receiving Gifts

In that order. I was going to bring up the love languages. Glad you know them already.

Part of our problem is that we have had competitive moments in our relationship. In the beginning especially, we intellectually challenged each other for some sort of dominance often. My critical INTP nature came out a lot and I speculate that not only did I not affirm her enough but I also maybe did worse by being critical. I never meant to do this and did not see it as an issue at the time. I always felt she just knew I thought she was brilliant because she was so confident and aloof naturally. I didn't feel like I needed to add to that. If that makes sense? Other than that I've always been a nice easy going guy. I now make sure I tell her how wonderful she is in my life especially for little things when I come across them. It takes time thought to repair a history of sub par behavior in this area. ;)This is where I experience the biggest problem with my ISTP husband, because my primary love language is words of affirmation, too. My husband has done a lot of damage to me over the years, with his words.

This is the way I see it: Words are very important to me, maybe more important than anything else. Therefore hurtful words do more damage to me than they do to the person whose love language is not words.

In my opinion, silence is better than criticizing, condemning and complaining.





The Rose added to this post, 2 minutes and 30 seconds later...

... I could go without calling her all day and never hear from her. She never has any anger or resentment of any sort if I do not contact her. I personally enjoy it if she checks in with me from time to time. She seems to only do this when planning of some sort is taking place. Is this common for most of you?Yes.

[Firelie]

Also, How often do INTJ women like to be contacted during the work day? Most other women seem to like a random phone call during the day or something along those lines. With my wife I could go without calling her all day and never hear from her. She never has any anger or resentment of any sort if I do not contact her. I personally enjoy it if she checks in with me from time to time. She seems to only do this when planning of some sort is taking place. Is this common for most of you?

Yes. I'm actually annoyed by people who call their S.O. every day from work... lol

I do like getting emails, though, as long as you have something interesting to say, or something interesting to share.

[Hoorurly]

Also, How often do INTJ women like to be contacted during the work day? Most other women seem to like a random phone call during the day or something along those lines. With my wife I could go without calling her all day and never hear from her. She never has any anger or resentment of any sort if I do not contact her. I personally enjoy it if she checks in with me from time to time. She seems to only do this when planning of some sort is taking place. Is this common for most of you?

Yes.

[PortInStorm]

Yes. I'm actually annoyed by people who call their S.O. every day from work... lol

:) I have a friend whose husband phoned her 3 times on an 1.5 hour car ride, and by the end I was gagging in the front seat! I also knew a co-worker whose SO used to call her every day on her work cell- look, as far as I'm concerned, I love you and you love me, and unless something's wrong there's no need to be unprofessional and bring my personal life to work. Like you say, emails are good because you can take them when you want, as long as they have something to say besides "I'm thinking of you" (not useful). I can wait til we're together to feel loved. Too much contact or mixing work with pleasure feels like they're not independant enough, or can't handle things on their own- though it may well feel romantic to others.

[INTJgal]

I'd like to point out that although in theory she's a rational INTJ, that doesn't exclude her from irrational feelings. I get them all the time and they frustrate me b/c I don't want to feel like that.

What I'm trying to say is that although she doesn't call you at work, or bug you about going out with her guy friends, there most certainly are times when she's stressed... or in her mind looking forward to spending time with you that you go out with friends... or she is lonely... or perhaps she's just having an unreasonably moody day (for a Rational:)) and she wants to be the Typical Girl.

But she won't call and she won't complain that you spent your time with your friends, b/c her Rational mind tells her her feelings are stupid. Or she'd be too proud or embarrassed to admit it.

The greatest guy for me would let me have my Irrational Feeling Moments... ideally he'd playfully tease or simply give me a big hug and let me be moody for a short while.

It would not be statistically the same as a normal woman, but even Rational women are women at their core.

[rocksteady]

this thread makes me want to have a girlfriend again! (i'll get over it in a couple minutes)

[Antares]

Hi everyone. If any of your INTJ's can help me out I'd be very grateful. My wife (INTJ) and I (INTP) are going through some relationship struggles recently. Our relationship has always been very strong and we were both drawn to each other very early on because we could relate intellectually and on many other levels. I am realizing that I am having trouble meeting her "emotional needs" recently. For a woman this is the largest part of a relationship and the foundation for love. In short what are the best ways to show affection for my INTJ wife? What are the deepest emotional needs for an INTJ female? I have mapped out what I feel many of them are but would love some other INTJ input.

I'm a female, but every INTJ is different, so I'll answer the best I can. For me, I'm secretly quite romantic and I like to sit and stare into my partner's eyes. I enjoy a profound, tender and loving connection with each other (that's why I have the patience to stare into his eyes). The theory is that INTJ's are subconciously ESFP's (the same applies to all other types), and I think that to be true, so open an emotional side of you to her. I'm sure she would have a very strong 'F' side of her too. For me, I like simple but romantic gestures every once in a while, but not to overdo it, and personally, I like snuggling :p Be creative and explore the F side of her :thumbsup:





Camelopardalis added to this post, 5 minutes and 9 seconds later...

Also, How often do INTJ women like to be contacted during the work day? Most other women seem to like a random phone call during the day or something along those lines. With my wife I could go without calling her all day and never hear from her. She never has any anger or resentment of any sort if I do not contact her. I personally enjoy it if she checks in with me from time to time. She seems to only do this when planning of some sort is taking place. Is this common for most of you?

I don't mind being contacted when there's something that need to be said, but concerning the ultra-romantic song I Just Called, To Say I Love You, once in a while is fine, but it irks me if it happens too much. Also, it's not really my habit to contact people when there's no need to (or there isn't really anything important), and I have really no urgent need to hear from people all the time. Maybe that's the case with your wife.

[Zilal]

I'm generally very laid-back and pretty communicative and direct in relationships... it's really too bad that your wife thinks she shouldn't have to answer when you ask a direct question, but like somebody said, of course INTJs can be illogical too. I commend you for putting this time and energy into trying to improve your relationship!

I really don't think that INTJ women have great similarities in terms of what we like... we are all different... but I can still mention the things that mean a lot to me:

Lots of physical attention, getting hugs when we part or come home for the evening, being touched for no reason, etc.
Being asked questions, about myself, my interests, my feelings... also, having someone who's willing to share that stuff about himself with me.
Having someone pick up things about me that I hadn't explicitly articulated, and mention them to me... like if he noticed that I cared about something I hadn't directly talked about... though I realize not everyone is this perceptive and that's fine.
Getting the occasional small gift just because he was thinking of me.
Having someone respect me enough to be honest with me about everything, including his dislikes.

[PortInStorm]

But she won't call and she won't complain that you spent your time with your friends, b/c her Rational mind tells her her feelings are stupid. Or she'd be too proud or embarrassed to admit it.

I never realized this is me to a 't'. There's just a huge block (pride?) to me asking for support when I'm feeling down. I usually have to be having a nervous breakdown before I tell someone directly how I'm feeling - a fault I'm currently working on. The other day I commented on how much better I feel compared to the really depressed time I had in the '06/'07 school year, and my husband said "I hadn't really noticed you were depressed". I don't fault him, really- I should have said something or showed it somehow.

Or I'm just depressing to be around as a personal norm....:undecided:

[Lucid]

Yes I have. The issue is that she feels these are things I should know already because she feels she has communicated them in the past.

While I understand how it can be annoying to have to repeat yourself, I think that if your intentions are to improve the relationship she might find some more patience for you. Although, you mentioned that intentions don't mean much to her. Maybe ask her for some help and patience? If the relationship is going to improve she has to be willing to do some work too (and maybe she is).

Every person is different, but I'm an INTJ female and in my past relationships I'd have to say that what meant the most to me were the acts of service. I'm so used to having to be self-reliant and independent, it's nice when someone does something for you. For example, I'm a college student and on days when I had big important tests or presentations (or sometimes for no reason at all), my x would get up extra early (which I know is hard for him) and make me breakfast (usually I skip breakfast and just head to class) and drive me to school so I wouldn't have to park and walk. This may seem like a relatively little thing, but it was HUGE to me!
Also, flowers occasionally and sincere compliments go a long way for me too. It's easy to overdo it though and come off as cheesy or lame, so be judicious in your use of these things (IMO, your wife may be different though).
Another big thing I noticed with my INTJ x was the criticism thing. You mentioned this and I think there's something to it. He was very critical and after awhile it really got to me and it started to seem like he had something negative to say about everything I did or said. While some criticism is good, I need to feel like my SO understands me and supports me.

One thing I find most dificult about being with an INTJ female is the obvious lack of visible emotion. Are all INTJ women this way? I mean it becomes hard to tell if she is even participating in the relationship at times. My guy friends get in trouble if they do not inform their wives about having a drink with the guys and making it home late. My wife seems to never have these sorts of typical female paterns or demands. What tends to be the case in this area with INTJ women?

That pretty much sums me up in relationships. It doesn't mean I don't care about the person I'm with though, on the contrary, I don't do these things out of respect for that person. I don't demand that my boyfriend be home at a certain time or prohibit him from spending time with his friends. I'm not his mother or his parole officer. I like him to tell me what time he might be home by, just so I know what's going on and can plan accordingly, but if he calls and says, "actually sweetie, I'm out with the guys and we're having a good time so I'll be home closer to 5 am" it's not a problem. One big thing about relationships for me, is that I need to spend time doing my own thing and being an individual person instead of part of a unit. So I understand when my SO needs the same thing (and think it's weird if he doesn't). Also, if my mate tried to tell me what I could and couldn't do, who I could spend time with and how much time I could spend, whether I could go out and when I needed to be home... I'd leave him.

How do most of you see the male female dynamic playing out in your relationships being that the INTJ comes across as masculine. What is your need for masculine traits in your husband or BF vs feminine emotional traits? Do you feel more of a need for "feeling" to be coming from your mate? It's funny because she looks extremely feminine and you would never know.

Well I think I look pretty feminine, although I often dress more for practicality than for looks. :) INTJ women may not be very stereotypically girlie, but we can still be feminine.

I tend to date men who are very masculine. Effeminate men usually turn me off. Also, personally, if a man is more clingy and needy (things I think of as emotional traits) it's a real turn off as well. Of the 3 relationships I've had of any importance, two have been with other INTJs (the other was with an ENFP), so I don't have much need for "feeling" coming from my mate and, in fact, an excess of it would make me feel awkward and uncomfortable. Having said that though, there needs to be some indication of how he feels about me.

[Colette]

One thing I find most dificult about being with an INTJ female is the obvious lack of visible emotion. It is very masculine in nature. Coupled with her need for space and independence and I end up being the emotional female persona here. It's funny because I am not a feminine guy at all. Are all INTJ women this way? I mean it becomes hard to tell if she is even participating in the relationship at times

I'm not sure about other INTJ women, I can only really speak for myself, but I would suspect yes that many INTJ women's traits would come across as vaguely "masculine". I come across that way to people irl, and it has often been remarked on. I am self-contained in my emotional repertoire, and seldom need to share emotions with others; I can often identify and process them myself without involving another person. There may be an extent to which this may make me appear cold, or unknowable; unable to connect with others. I'm not sure.

My guy friends get in trouble if they do not inform their wives about having a drink with the guys and making it home late. My wife seems to never have these sorts of typical female paterns or demands. What tends to be the case in this area with INTJ women?

Again speculation here, but I tend to view INTJ women (if anything like me) as being squarely in the "low maintenance" category. Your partner wouldn't need to ask about our get you to justify your other activities, because she isn't insecure, and is comfortable with space in the relationship, and with allowing you to do your own thing when you need to. Conversely, she would expect the same attitude from you, I would think.

[Danisty]

I'd like to point out that although in theory she's a rational INTJ, that doesn't exclude her from irrational feelings. I get them all the time and they frustrate me b/c I don't want to feel like that.

What I'm trying to say is that although she doesn't call you at work, or bug you about going out with her guy friends, there most certainly are times when she's stressed... or in her mind looking forward to spending time with you that you go out with friends... or she is lonely... or perhaps she's just having an unreasonably moody day (for a Rational:)) and she wants to be the Typical Girl.

But she won't call and she won't complain that you spent your time with your friends, b/c her Rational mind tells her her feelings are stupid. Or she'd be too proud or embarrassed to admit it.

The greatest guy for me would let me have my Irrational Feeling Moments... ideally he'd playfully tease or simply give me a big hug and let me be moody for a short while.

It would not be statistically the same as a normal woman, but even Rational women are women at their core.I'm a really strong T and I think when I do have emotional moments, my feelings are more irrational than with an F. Perhaps this is because I don't really know how to process my feelings. I'm sure I confuse people who don't know me very well because I get angry when I get emotional. I feel like I've lost all control and I don't like people to see me in moments of weakness. It's not uncommon at all for my tears to be accompanied with scowling, yelling, and cursing. :laugh: