'Evil' or Bad INTJs

[Jgib5328]

What do you guys have to say about the evil INTJs? What have you seen from them? How do they function differently from the good INTJ? What do you think causes them?

Basically I'm interested in what you guys have to say, because I've never really seen much on this topic. I was on another forum, which described briefly how a bad INTJ would act in a particular scenario, and it piqued my interests.

I'd probably consider myself an INTJ on the darker side of the spectrum so this topic really does interest me.

And don't look too deeply into the definition of 'evil' just define it however you find rational, this shouldn't be that philosophical.

[Paul V]

To me, an evil INTJ is just like any other evil type: determined to do absolutely anything in order to achieve its goals, with complete disregard for the well-being of anyone other than him. This could also be complemented with sadism or immorality as well. To me, good, neutrality and evil exist with complete disregard of personality. Any type can be good and any type can be evil. However, most people in general are neutral.

There is one point which tends to make people fall between the extremes of good and evil, and that is the Thinking/Feeling aspect. I'm not going to say that Feelers are good and Thinkers are evil, or viceversa. All I'm going to say is that each has a way to manifest its innate goodness or evil. Feelers usually have more empathy with others, which allows them to care about the consequences of their own actions on other people, manifesting their inner goodness. On the other side, feelers are also more prone to make decisions based on how they feel... and not all feelings are good. Hatred, anger, jealousy, greed and vengeance are all negative feelings that inspire the vilest acts of evil. Thinkers, on the other hand, are more in control of their inner passions, and are therefore able to work for the greatest good and defend it with logical certainty. And there's also the cold, calculating approach of the thinkers, whose lack of empathy severs any connection with the rest of humankind, rendering them as mere pawns or expendable resources for their cunning plans. People with high scores in either aspect are the least likely to be neutral.

I could go on forever, showing how each of the other six aspects have a potential for good and a potential for evil (or perhaps for neutrality), but I think it does not pertain to the current discussion.

Evil INTJs are easy to manufacture, because they and their ENTJ half-brothers are the epitome of the master plan that comes to fruition. It is the villain that actually has the potential to succeed. No matter how crazy or evil his scheme is, it's very possible that he will see it through. And that's what makes them scary.

Unfortunately for us, people romanticise the evil mastermind. It's expected of a rational, determined person, to succeed in its endeavours. And others, who do not understand us, view us with suspicion. "So much potential... what if it was used for evil?" And so, just like the person with the gun is viewed with fear regardless of his or her intentions, masterminds are assumed to be evil. And it is quite easy for them to fall into that path, too. If you had the power to be and do whatever you want, wouldn't you tell ethics to fuck off and do whatever you want? Those who fail this test are those who rise as the evil masterminds of today, falsely believing that their misdeeds will go unpunished.

But I'm rambling. Give me more specific questions and I'll be delighted to answer them. Perhaps you've inspired me to create another topic, one for the good INTJs. ;)

[Maverick]

To me, an evil INTJ is just like any other evil type: determined to do absolutely anything in order to achieve its goals, with complete disregard for the well-being of anyone other than him. This could also be complemented with sadism or immorality as well. To me, good, neutrality and evil exist with complete disregard of personality. Any type can be good and any type can be evil. However, most people in general are neutral.

There is one point which tends to make people fall between the extremes of good and evil, and that is the Thinking/Feeling aspect. I'm not going to say that Feelers are good and Thinkers are evil, or viceversa. All I'm going to say is that each has a way to manifest its innate goodness or evil. Feelers usually have more empathy with others, which allows them to care about the consequences of their own actions on other people, manifesting their inner goodness. On the other side, feelers are also more prone to make decisions based on how they feel... and not all feelings are good. Hatred, anger, jealousy, greed and vengeance are all negative feelings that inspire the vilest acts of evil. Thinkers, on the other hand, are more in control of their inner passions, and are therefore able to work for the greatest good and defend it with logical certainty. And there's also the cold, calculating approach of the thinkers, whose lack of empathy severs any connection with the rest of humankind, rendering them as mere pawns or expendable resources for their cunning plans. People with high scores in either aspect are the least likely to be neutral.

Those are very good points.

All too often, when discussing about NT's with MBTI enthusiasts/amateurs, you get strong value judgments from other types categorizing us as "evil". In particular, NF's seem to really believe that they are "good" people and that NT's are "bad" people because they are not so much in touch with their emotions. NTJ's are viewed as the worst because they have the self-discipline and determination to carry out their plans. Yet, no type is inherently good or bad. But once bad behavior becomes associated with a trait by MBTI enthusiasts, they will type anyone showing this bad behavior as being of that trait.

I see also in Feelers the positive potential for humanity, warmth, understanding, genuineness, connectedness with self and others, empathy and altruism. I see the negative potential for a disregard for truth, emotional manipulation, unfairness, subjectiveness and fanatical belief. Due to their nature, Feelers want to see themselves as good and will deny the evil/harm that they do to others. I see in Thinkers the positive potential for truth, justice, fairness, objectivity and morality (i.e. following a set of principles that guide behavior). On the negative side, there is absolute selfishness, cunning, manipulation of thoughts and seeing people as objects. Without going into a philosophical debate, one could argue if Feelers doing evil things are not more evil than Thinkers. The reason for this is that they are aware of how the other person is feeling. Evil Thinkers are so self centered that they do evil without consideration for others. People are tools and objects. Evil Feelers might well want you to suffer emotionally and enjoy the harm they are causing you.


Unfortunately for us, people romanticise the evil mastermind. It's expected of a rational, determined person, to succeed in its endeavours. And others, who do not understand us, view us with suspicion. "So much potential... what if it was used for evil?" And so, just like the person with the gun is viewed with fear regardless of his or her intentions, masterminds are assumed to be evil. And it is quite easy for them to fall into that path, too. If you had the power to be and do whatever you want, wouldn't you tell ethics to fuck off and do whatever you want? Those who fail this test are those who rise as the evil masterminds of today, falsely believing that their misdeeds will go unpunished.

But I'm rambling. Give me more specific questions and I'll be delighted to answer them. Perhaps you've inspired me to create another topic, one for the good INTJs. ;)

What I think creates the potential for an evil mastermind is the way NTJ's are regarded by society. As an ENTJ, I have an easier time but I have seen some INTJ's been given severe social treatment by others. This in turn made them angry and bitter towards humanity. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. People who are scared of NTJ's because they think all that potential could be used for evil start behaving in ways that may actually provoke an evil response - leading them to conclude that their assumptions were correct. This can start a vicious circle that can effectively lead NTJ's to becoming "bad".

[Paul V]

Those are very good points.

All too often, when discussing about NT's with MBTI enthusiasts/amateurs, you get strong value judgments from other types categorizing us as "evil". In particular, NF's seem to really believe that they are "good" people and that NT's are "bad" people because they are not so much in touch with their emotions. NTJ's are viewed as the worst because they have the self-discipline and determination to carry out their plans. Yet, no type is inherently good or bad. But once bad behavior becomes associated with a trait by MBTI enthusiasts, they will type anyone showing this bad behavior as being of that trait.

I see also in Feelers the positive potential for humanity, warmth, understanding, genuineness, connectedness with self and others, empathy and altruism. I see the negative potential for a disregard for truth, emotional manipulation, unfairness, subjectiveness and fanatical belief. Due to their nature, Feelers want to see themselves as good and will deny the evil/harm that they do to others. I see in Thinkers the positive potential for truth, justice, fairness, objectivity and morality (i.e. following a set of principles that guide behavior). On the negative side, there is absolute selfishness, cunning, manipulation of thoughts and seeing people as objects. Without going into a philosophical debate, one could argue if Feelers doing evil things are not more evil than Thinkers. The reason for this is that they are aware of how the other person is feeling. Evil Thinkers are so self centered that they do evil without consideration for others. People are tools and objects. Evil Feelers might well want you to suffer emotionally and enjoy the harm they are causing you.



What I think creates the potential for an evil mastermind is the way NTJ's are regarded by society. As an ENTJ, I have an easier time but I have seen some INTJ's been given severe social treatment by others. This in turn made them angry and bitter towards humanity. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. People who are scared of NTJ's because they think all that potential could be used for evil start behaving in ways that may actually provoke an evil response - leading them to conclude that their assumptions were correct. This can start a vicious circle that can effectively lead NTJ's to becoming "bad".

I agree with you. To me, Feelers are the least likely to do harm to others, but when they do it, they will sadistically enjoy every moment of it, or guiltily fret over it later.

That fourth paragraph accurately depicts the position of every single human being, regardless of type, that is discriminated throughout a long period of time. I could've easily turned to evil, but I chose to be serious and detached instead. I wonder if people discriminate out of fear or out of their innate sense of superiority. It has been brought up even here, in this forum. Elitism spawns all sorts of evils. Why? Because some idiot with low self-confidence decided to trample over others to feel better about his hideous self.

[Maverick]

That fourth paragraph accurately depicts the position of every single human being, regardless of type, that is discriminated throughout a long period of time. I could've easily turned to evil, but I chose to be serious and detached instead. I wonder if people discriminate out of fear or out of their innate sense of superiority. It has been brought up even here, in this forum. Elitism spawns all sorts of evils. Why? Because some idiot with low self-confidence decided to trample over others to feel better about his hideous self.

I think people discriminate for both reasons. A strong person may upset the current social hierarchy and a different person may upset the current group identity. If you are both, strong and different, I think you are in for a tough time. Idiots with low self-confidence tend to be those that discriminate the most against strong and different people. Since there does tend to be an overwhelming amount of them, they form alliances between themselves that prove to be powerful against those who they would be overwhelmed by in a 1 on 1 situation.

[Danisty]

I wouldn't say I'm an evil mastermind...not even close. I also wouldn't say I possess many traits that most people consider good. I'm not selfless, I'm not particularly compassionate except with people I actually know and care about, and on top of that, I don't have any desire to be those things. Personally, I'm incredibly fascinated by evil masterminds and don't have any problem admitting that I admire a lot of things about them. Afterall, I am known to love the villains of a story and not particularly care for the heroes. That doesn't mean I want to emulate them though. I just have an appreciation for the darker side of things.

[Jedi_sena]

My strong sense of justice doesn't allow me to entertain thoughts of hurting others or benefiting from another's misfortune. Although I often find myself wishing that others who have an unfair advantage would be de-throned and suffer natural consequences. For instance, a couple of my coworkers seem to "get away w/ murder" so to speak and I would be very satisfied to see them fired or demoted. I would never rat them out or be instrumental in paying them back, but karma can have her way with them for all I care!

[Gaius Baltar]

Interesting topic...

I tend to dislike the concepts of good and evil. I think it's a bit too simplistic. Things tend to be shades of grey.

I feel that both sides are manipulative. Evil says, "Do what I say or I'll hurt you!" Good says, "Do what I say or I'll stop being nice to you!" Both are forms of manipulation which I do not like.

That being said, I believe that you need to be a balance of both. Of course, I tend to slide closer to "good" since I have strong ethics and a sense of justice, but I have no problem flexing my "evil" muscles if I'm pushed into a corner and have to defend myself.

What I think creates the potential for an evil mastermind is the way NTJ's are regarded by society. As an ENTJ, I have an easier time but I have seen some INTJ's been given severe social treatment by others. This in turn made them angry and bitter towards humanity. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. People who are scared of NTJ's because they think all that potential could be used for evil start behaving in ways that may actually provoke an evil response - leading them to conclude that their assumptions were correct. This can start a vicious circle that can effectively lead NTJ's to becoming "bad".

I have to say that you're one of the very few non-INTJs that understand this, so I appreciate it. I've been on the receiving end of some VERY severe social treatment by many people. I don't go out of my way looking for trouble, it just happens since I tend to speak my mind. It's especially bad when you voice ideas that are not very politically correct.

It got to the point where I was indeed bitter and hateful to humanity at large for a long time. It was the reward for trying to be "good" by coming up with better solutions for problems. I never really became "evil", but I did indeed withdraw for quite some time.

I eventually climbed my way back out after cleaning out many of my internal issues. I'm still not really a fan of most people, but these days I have the emotional and intellectual maturity to just ignore people that don't interest me. Sounds harsh, but the flip side is that it's helped me appreciate certain types of people much more. These days I'm even on the lookout for them so I can add them to my social circle.

[terencec]

I think that they have a prejudice against each other. Sometimes, unwittingly, I think that NF's are 'illogical' and 'wishy-washy' and that NT's are 'logical' and 'always right'.

Are you joking or am I misunderstanding?

[Antares]

Are you joking or am I misunderstanding?

I think that you're misunderstanding. I'm just pointing out that NT's and NF's may have prejudices against each other and there was this once I had a conflict with a NF, I just automatically assumed that she is illogical and I am right, but when I thought about it calmly, we are both at fault.

[errrzarrr]

My "evil" part is I like my personal space. Me first, then the others. Some people think it is selfishness, maybe it is, but personal time/space Must be respected. Then I am apathetic. I care less than the others about people problems/pains. Same for joys.

[INTJewel]

Hannibal Lecter is an INTJ.

But he's such a cute, cuddly evil genius. ;D

~Jewel

[Lucid]

I agree with you. To me, Feelers are the least likely to do harm to others, but when they do it, they will sadistically enjoy every moment of it, or guiltily fret over it later.

Actually, I disagree. I don't think that thinkers are more likely to do harm to others, because they actually think about what they do and how it will affect those around them. It seems that thinkers can put more thought into the morality of a situation and better weigh the consequences. However, thinkers may be more likely to hurt others and view it as "collateral damage" and therefore acceptable.
In my experience, feelers are more likely to do things without really thinking about them, or analyzing the situation or considering the consequences of their actions and so are more likely to hurt others on accident.

[Capt57]

I once watched somebody fall...slowly...down a large set of stairs. Trying to hold on, then slip, stop, fall again. I just watched fascinated. I could of helped i guess. When it was all over a smile inched across my face and I chuckled like the girl in the exorcist after she kills the priest. Oh, I should mention that the girl was retarded and this was way back in high school. I'm much nicer now:suspicious:

[Jgib5328]

I once watched somebody fall...slowly...down a large set of stairs. Trying to hold on, then slip, stop, fall again. I just watched fascinated. I could of helped i guess. When it was all over a smile inched across my face and I chuckled like the girl in the exorcist after she kills the priest. Oh, I should mention that the girl was retarded and this was way back in high school. I'm much nicer now:suspicious:

Don't worry, I would've laughed too. I once saw some overweight girl trip down slippery steps in my dorm and injure her wrist, it was hilarious.

People falling down is funny.





Jgib5328 added to this post, 4 minutes and 18 seconds later...

Actually, I disagree. I don't think that thinkers are more likely to do harm to others, because they actually think about what they do and how it will affect those around them. It seems that thinkers can put more thought into the morality of a situation and better weigh the consequences. However, thinkers may be more likely to hurt others and view it as "collateral damage" and therefore acceptable.
In my experience, feelers are more likely to do things without really thinking about them, or analyzing the situation or considering the consequences of their actions and so are more likely to hurt others on accident.

I think thinkers do more harm because they don't understand how their actions affect other people's emotional well-being, while feelers are more in tune with this. I think feelers do more harm in a sadistic and malicious way, while thinkers wouldn't usually go out of their way to hurt someone. Thinkers have less trouble doing things to other people too because they feel less compassion.

[Colette]

I wonder whether it's possible that INTJs have the capacity to be more ruthless, and totalitarian, than some other types; mainly because they are goal-oriented, and, if strong J and T, may do almost anything to achieve it, no matter what the cost to others.

It seems INTJs have a tremendous amount of dynamic and goal-directed energy, which could be channeled either for good or evil, depending on the person, and their goals and circumstances.

[mind_wander]

I once watched somebody fall...slowly...down a large set of stairs. Trying to hold on, then slip, stop, fall again. I just watched fascinated. I could of helped i guess. When it was all over a smile inched across my face and I chuckled like the girl in the exorcist after she kills the priest. Oh, I should mention that the girl was retarded and this was way back in high school. I'm much nicer now:suspicious:

Actually, I do the total opposite, I let it keep on going, til I have a happy grin. Like you said, inside you will feel very guility, darn it guility conscience playing in my mind. It tells me stop it or many drasitic problems will be coming along this ride. So I stopped, during in high school too and become more on the nice side. Being evil quiet fun, but you already know what the end results are, kinda not so pretty.

[lowbrass]

Possible examples of bad/evil INTJ's can be found in the Godfather movies (Vito / Michael Corleone). In fact, when I think of a bad INTJ, the first two words that come up are "organized crime".

The Stewie Griffin character in Family Guy also comes to mind.

[Capt57]

Possible examples of bad/evil INTJ's can be found in the Godfather movies (Vito / Michael Corleone). In fact, when I think of a bad INTJ, the first two words that come up are "organized crime".

The Stewie Griffin character in Family Guy also comes to mind.


Lois: Oh, I haven't been on a college campus in years. Everything seems so different.
Stewie: Really? Perhaps if you laid on your back with your ankles behind your ears that would ring a few bells

[Doppelbock]

INTJ's who "turn bad" become the classic "evil masterminds", e.g., Skeletor, Voldemort, Sauron, etc. I wrote my latest book for these people: Chicken Soup for the Evil Mastermind's Soul. You can learn about it here:

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DB

[Lucid]

Thinkers have less trouble doing things to other people too because they feel less compassion.

I disagree. The thinkers I know tend to have more compassion than the feelers I know. It seems counter-intuitive, but most of the feelers I've had experience with seem to have an "I'm the only one who matters" attitude.

In reality, it seems likely that thinkers and feelers have the same potential to be shitty and harmful to others, but for different reasons.

However, it seems like someone who has a rational reason based in logic, for doing something harmful is marginally better than a person who does it for emotional reasons. But that may just be my T bias.

[Tokey41]

I have a hard time understanding how another type can simply label INTJ's 'evil', the exact same criteria for which they base the assumption on can be used for 'good' as well. The ruthless goal-orientated INTJ may stop at nothing to succeed... but what if their goal is to benefit society as a whole? What if by say killing one innocent child they can find a cure for cancer... would that be evil?

To some the answer may be obvious... but depending on your type your answers may differ despite how obvious it seems. I think a true 'evil' INTJ may say they would kill the child immediately without hesitation for the greater logical good. But what about an F type? They may say they wouldn't kill the child without hesitation but consequently millions of others will die because of cancer. Isn't that just as if not more (I think more... thats probably the T talking) evil? We could very well say their sometimes irrational emotion could be just as evil as our 'cold analytical logic'.