Question about the Enneagram and MBTI

[DeepPurple]

I recently skimmed through Understanding the Enneagram by Don Richard Riso and Russ Hudson and they mention that you cannot change your Enneagram type. They also break up each type into 9 levels. You can be healthy, average or unhealthy.

My question has to do with changing your type.

There have been people on the board who mentioned that their MBTI type has changed. So I am assuming that it is possible. However, where do you distinguish between having a well developed x and actually changing your type. I realize that If I reach some of my goals that involve improving my communcation skills, I imagine the following scenario:

INTJ in teen years to early twenties.
eNTj in mid to late twenties.
eNtJ in my 30s.
Possibly an INfJ in my 40s.
Back to an INTJ later on.

The way this would come about is if, I develop my social skills. If I were to master the skill of assertiveness and more self-awareness, my communication with people would be a lot better. If I can communicate better with people, social gatherings, awkwardness and anxiety would not be an issue. If it is not an issue than I wouldn't mind being around people for long amounts of time. Now if I were to take the test again after all this I would come out either an ENTJ or an XNTJ or borderline. The idea to shift between all these types confuse me. Have I really changed or have I just developed a useful skill. Have I truly become an E or do I just have a well developed E. If an internet test were to type me as an ENTJ or an ENTP. Would that be as a result of my obtaining new skills and using them and having them affect the way I behave in my every day life or has the cognitive process really changed? Would an INTJ who is a comedian and deals with people on a daily basis, come out as an ENTP on the online test and really be an INTJ. Questions on some online tests talk about preferences and scenarios. For instance, I get tripped up on dreamer/realist type questions. I consider myself both. When being made to choose one or the other or neutral it becomes confusing.

The thing with the Enneagram is I would still be a Type 5. I would just be a five who has gone from being an unhealthy version, to a healthy version. My thought process would still be the same and I would still have some of the same defaults, but I would know how to deal with them better.

I hope I have explained this clearly enough. If not, I'll clarify in a later post.

[niffer]

Actually, your enneagram type is supposed to sort of change after a while. Your original type's nature will remain at your core, but as you become more and more healthy and keep developing, you move around the enneagram. Ideally, you would make a full cycle throughout your life.

[DeepPurple]

I read somewhere that there are people who follow Riso and Hudson and then there are people who follow Helen Palmer. I haven't read any of Helen Palmer's stuff yet, so I can't really decide to who I think makes more sense. To move throughout the whole entire enneagram seems a little bit odd. To have that many changes...

[niffer]

It's just an ideal. Most people aren't going to.

[coffeeloverfreak]

From everything I've read about the enneagram, it's a system that is less researched and less logical than MBTI typing. I can see where both might be useful, but none of the enneagram tests I've taken have been conclusive or have given me much in the way of insight about myself.

Curious about other reactions to the enneagram.

[aok]

I got the impression that being healthy moves you up to other numbers as being unhealthy can move you down to other numbers. I'm not sure, as I haven't read much of that in awhile, whether you actually become distinctly those healthier or unhealthier numbers for your original type #.

[deicruxified]

i don't buy the "healthy" and "unhealthy" stuff of the enneagram... (or probably i just don't understand)... well for my case, i am a 1... then when i "mature" they say i will be 7 and when i "mature" from 7 i will be blah blah blah...so my question is, what is "mature" "immature" "healthy" and "unhealthy" in the enneagram?

[Antares]

I'm Type 5 and Type 1. The two results seem to come up as frequently as each other.

[Eddy Gao]

Me too, I think I am 5, but sometimes the result turns out to be 1.

[ssrprotege]

I'm Type 5 and Type 1. The two results seem to come up as frequently as each other.

Me too, I think I am 5, but sometimes the result turns out to be 1.

Ditto. Type 5, but occasionally tested as Type 1. Most probable cause is that INTJ's tend to be perfectionistic.

In the Internet I saw some psychologists trying to correlate the Jungian cognitive process, Enneagram and MBTI. I doubt that the correlations will be solid enough, though.

[Functianalyst]

I recently skimmed through Understanding the Enneagram by Don Richard Riso and Russ Hudson and they mention that you cannot change your Enneagram type. They also break up each type into 9 levels. You can be healthy, average or unhealthy.

My question has to do with changing your type.

There have been people on the board who mentioned that their MBTI type has changed. So I am assuming that it is possible. However, where do you distinguish between having a well developed x and actually changing your type. I realize that If I reach some of my goals that involve improving my communcation skills, I imagine the following scenario:

INTJ in teen years to early twenties.
eNTj in mid to late twenties.
eNtJ in my 30s.
Possibly an INfJ in my 40s.
Back to an INTJ later on.Deep, I think that the enneagram may be more similar to temperament than MBTI. In their introduction, R&H (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) even allude to the similarities. The more I start to read from Jung himself, and even going back over Myers-Briggs work, I don't think she was as convinced that type remains the same. She does allude to those born with clean slates having their personality type determined by their environment. Yet, based on your illustration, I could see that occurring.

You essentially are saying that your Ni was developed up until your early 20's, your Te became more developed during your mid-20's until late 30s and your Fi became more develped in your 40s. Well contrary to what you believe, you may have found that you are doing more gardening or things outside that are actually giving you a better appreciation of your Se.

I can pretty much say the same as ISTP: Ti developed until late teens, Se begin to develop in late teens to late 20s, Ni developed in late 20s to now and at some point I will begin to have a greater appreciation of my Fe. Unfortuantely these functions develop (if at all) at a different pace for us.