Female INTJs are you suspicious of other females on the forum?

[JustMel]

Being female I can say honestly I don't prefer the company of many females in the real world as they annoy me to the point I want to make them disappear. I've noticed that there are females on here that don't immediately hit my annoyed button and I actually look forward to conversing with them. To name a few, Dali, Synamon, Feral, LFB and a few others I'm too tired to think of right now.

However, there are some that write things or send me messages and my "what the fuck game are you playing" flag goes up. This is especially true if they send me a private message and I've never talked to them before.

Are you more open to the other females here or the males?

[Amphorian]

Could you elborate on "what the fuck game are you playing" part?

[Double Victory]

Here I'm just open to whoever is nice in a not creepy/annoying way (not that I've run across those types of people here). Doesn't matter if they're male or female, if someone is kind I'm not expecting it so I just kind of have an "aww...." moment and want to be kind in return.

I think it's really normal for females to not like other females--there's definitely a lot of competition (regardless of whether we realize it or not) that goes on in the real world. Most of my best friends in the real world are female, but they're either really mature or really nerdy (or both) so I don't run into the subtle manipulations/outdoing thing that less mature females do.

[coffeeloverfreak]

I'm just suspicious and skeptical by nature. I don't associate it with males or females in particular. People in general suck. (Though, I'll admit, people on this forum suck refreshingly less.)

[JustMel]

Could you elborate on "what the fuck game are you playing" part?

I think it's pretty self explanatory. In my experience women generally have a motive for wanting to hang out with someone or they want to be all BFFish. Not to mention the ones that want to pretend they're back in HS with "she said" blah blah. With the guys you can kick back and drink a beer, watch the game, play some video games and there's no motive other than the occasional wanting to get you into bed which you can shoot down fairly quickly. Girls on the other hand have all these feelings and like to touch you. I don't know any INTJ women in the real world. I don't think I know any "I" in the real world outside of my daughter.

[coffeeloverfreak]

Sounds like you've had the misfortune of being surrounded by way too many ESFP (extra special fun people) women. All the behaviour you describe is stuff I hate. However, don't just ascribe it to women; there are just as many catty men out there.

[Synamon]

I never really thought about this until I read this thread. I don't really think of people on the forum in terms of their gender. I just went and looked at my friends list, it's pretty evenly distributed between male and female. My ignore list had some of each on it as well, there were more males if I recall correctly but that probably had more to do with the fact that I ignored trolls (who all ended up banned) and they were mostly male.

So all that is a long-winded, thinking out loud way of saying that the females on the forum don't annoy me any more than the males do. There are posters of both genders who rub me the wrong way.

[Sequoia]

I think it's pretty self explanatory. In my experience women generally have a motive for wanting to hang out with someone or they want to be all BFFish. Not to mention the ones that want to pretend they're back in HS with "she said" blah blah. With the guys you can kick back and drink a beer, watch the game, play some video games and there's no motive other than the occasional wanting to get you into bed which you can shoot down fairly quickly. Girls on the other hand have all these feelings and like to touch you. I don't know any INTJ women in the real world. I don't think I know any "I" in the real world outside of my daughter.

That could be why you feel as you do. IN women in general are different in the real world than the stereotype. The game playing just isn't there, at least in my experience.

[Amphorian]

I think it's pretty self explanatory. In my experience women generally have a motive for wanting to hang out with someone or they want to be all BFFish. Not to mention the ones that want to pretend they're back in HS with "she said" blah blah. With the guys you can kick back and drink a beer, watch the game, play some video games and there's no motive other than the occasional wanting to get you into bed which you can shoot down fairly quickly. Girls on the other hand have all these feelings and like to touch you. I don't know any INTJ women in the real world. I don't think I know any "I" in the real world outside of my daughter.

Well I can tell you I don't have this need to be all chumy like, just a geninue concern for others. Giving some kind words I do often though. Then I leave them alone and go on with my life. I remember this one young lady sitting down on a broken fence just looking terribly sad. I paused (no I didn't know her), gave her a hug, told her I hoped she'd feel better and haven't seen her since.

I don't care if a person is male, female or intersexual. I act the same way to everyone.

[azelismia]

yup male or female has very little difference to me here. most people are horrid. people in general are far less horrid in this forum than they are IRL. there are only a few people here who hit my dislike buttons - males and females have pretty equal hits on it.

[JustMel]

One of the reasons I enjoy the forum so much is because I don't have to deal with the head games. I have noticed that if they're new I tend to be more skeptical of their intentions.

[altoid]

Am I suspicious of people in general? Probably. As has been pointed out, people suck. Am I suspicious of females here? No. I don't really pay attention to gender as much here. I may be suspicious of individual people, but not because of gender.

I am more suspicious of females IRL. I've never really understood the games some of them try to play, and really don't care to participate.

One of the reasons I enjoy the forum so much is because I don't have to deal with the head games....

I agree. That's usually what bothers me the most about a stereotypical female, but males can do it too I suppose.

[dalidaisy]

I've found the INTJ women here to be quite similar to the males (which is a plus in my book). Like Mel (we have some creepily similar moments), I don't think I know any IN females outside of this forum. I have actually developed a deep respect for a few of the women on this forum (something that rarely happens). I think it makes the forum all the more inviting. There are a catty few that occasionally remind me of why I don't like women much in the first place, but they are easily tolerable considering they are rare in the forum as a whole.

I will say there are some men here that also put me off a little, but, as above, they are tolerable since they are few in number.

I don't really feel competition here. I don't know what the aim would be. I mainly just enjoy reading posts & sharing ideas with similar minds, male or female. I think I treat everyone the same, for the most part.

[rara avis]

Meh, not really. I sometimes get concerned when anyone approaches me without an obvious, straightforward reason... but that's easily attributed to the fact that there are so few obvious reasons that I'd approach someone. I can't identify, so I wonder what's going on.

Maybe I'm kind of naive, but I don't tend to read badness into most people. Lots are idiots, but I don't usually suspect that they mean harm, so no hard feelings, as long as I'm not trapped in a small area with them for a long time. They just don't have any sense. And I don't know how to play that way, so they'll have to get on without me. Usually it's NBD.

IRL or here, I think I must be kind of oblivious to game playing a lot of the time. I have a hard time thinking of real instances of game playing that I've observed. What I do notice, I can't say I really attribute more to one gender or the other. I work in a very political environment, I suppose I am around a lot of professional gamers of both genders.

[Stratego]

Male or female, it makes no difference to me. I like whom I like, and feel indifference or annoyance towards others, sometimes even something close to hatred, or at least great dislike (and I'm speaking about life in general and not just the forum) but I do not find either sex more objectionable than the other.

And to be honest, I'm aware that what I dislike in other woman or men is what I dislike in myself; selfishness, condescension, arrogance, cruelty, rigidity--and what I like are the same things I like in myself; intelligence, thoughtfulness (as in far-thinking, pananormaic thinkers and not the traditional use of the term, as in compassionate or sympathetic.) But I also value some degree of compassion or understanding.

I don't think that someone has some ulterior motive when they seek friendship or connection to another person, or such connection to me. I think it's a fundamental human need to seek companionship. We're already completely alone in the sense that the only experience and perception we can truly comprehend in all it's complexity is our own. I'm stuck in my own head and my own world and nothing will change that, but sometimes, a frienship can go a long way towards bridging that gap, that disconnect we're all born with.

The only connection I object to is one where the other person clearly needs a great deal, more than I want or can give, someone who only cares for their own happiness and nothing else. They want to drain your time, your emotions, and your life away for their own sake---but that's rare, I think. Most people aren't that sick...or broken...

Even if they are, I can't hate them for what they (to some degree) can't control. Human nature is fallible.

I like almost every person in the forum, and would be glad to have them as friends in truth, rather than just in the nebulous, ephemeral shallows of cyberspace.

[loosefanbelt]

Hmmm... I think it is an interesting question to raise... what is there to gain by having interpersonal games here on the forum...

I think in it's elemental form, the forum is great for having peer association, virtual companionship, reflection, refinement and education.

Other further motives that might lead to games may be:
-- attention - good or bad attention
-- validation, feedback and praise
-- e-mance (btw, zibber is looking ;) )

I suspect that there are women and men that are bent toward craving the above to the point that they are loaded for bear and start games with people... hmmmm... just thinking aloud...

[Snowdragon]

I think it's pretty self explanatory. In my experience women generally have a motive for wanting to hang out with someone or they want to be all BFFish.

They are prying for information they can use against you later.

[floramacivor]

This is especially true if they send me a private message and I've never talked to them before.

Do you mean, as in, they're not contacting you about a thread both of you participated in? Because, unless there were private messages, you won't have talked to the person, and someone has to initiate the contact.

I haven't sent a private message very often - and never thought that the person on the other end might be questioning my motives. And, on the receiving end, I've never thought about the sender having a motive - I was merely pleased that they were being friendly. :huh:

So I guess my answer is NO. I'm not suspicious of other females on the forum.

[curiousjane]

Not an INTJ, but an INxx, and as such I can say that interacting with the majority of women here makes me want to jump up and down and clap and shout "YES! AT LAST!!!".

I met a very good friend (female) on this forum, and how closely we clicked when we met is a testament of how knowing MBTI can sometimes work out for the best.

The only time I get annoyed by other females on the forum is if they carry chips on their shoulders or insist on polarizing a conversation. But then, that's what annoys me about some male posters, too. So I don't know that it's so much a gender issue as a "if it bothers you so much, why the heck are you baiting yourself by entering into such a thread in the first place" issue.

I can't say that I've ever been suspicious of the motives of any of the female members here. Although I can say I can predict some of their responses to hot topics.


Edit: I was brought up by an INTJ female (my mom). It seriously never occurred to me that I wasn't supposed to be able to hold an intelligent conversation about a topic, or that "research" was weird, or that recognizing the inter-connectedness of life and commenting on it might be ... unusual. I was a girl, and an artist, and a writer, and an entrepreneur. I played with cars and toy cash registers. I read books. I played tag. None of these things really endeared me with the girls I knew growing up who could only talk about how much hair spray they used to keep their bangs up (oh, the 80's!) So that's why ending up here and having discussions about all sorts of things is like manna from heaven.

Thanks, ladies!

[INTx]

Being female I can say honestly I don't prefer the company of many females in the real world as they annoy me to the point I want to make them disappear.

I don't think it has anything to do with the gender, it is all in the personality.
I am pretty sure the feeling is mutual. Non-NT people do not like NT people, and vice versa.
INTs in particular have it hard, since we are asocial and in general do not care. We usually have only a few real friends that we care about.
ENTs are way more social than we are, but I am not sure if they actually care (any ENT wants to chime in?).

[Snowdragon]

I don't think it has anything to do with the gender, it is all in the personality.
I am pretty sure the feeling is mutual. Non-NT people do not like NT people, and vice versa.
INTs in particular have it hard, since we are asocial and in general do not care. We usually have only a few real friends that we care about.
ENTs are way more social than we are, but I am not sure if they actually care (any ENT wants to chime in?).

ENTxs are no better off than INTxs if you ask me. I know from experience. The E combined with NT will annoy others.

[JustMel]

Do you mean, as in, they're not contacting you about a thread both of you participated in? Because, unless there were private messages, you won't have talked to the person, and someone has to initiate the contact.

I haven't sent a private message very often - and never thought that the person on the other end might be questioning my motives. And, on the receiving end, I've never thought about the sender having a motive - I was merely pleased that they were being friendly. :huh:

So I guess my answer is NO. I'm not suspicious of other females on the forum.

In this case I'm thinking of someone you haven't participated with in any threads at all.

[floramacivor]

In this case I'm thinking of someone you haven't participated with in any threads at all.

I know people in real life who are horrified and intimidated at the thought of posting something where everyone will see - so they contact people privately instead. Maybe we have some lurkers here who do that?

[JustMel]

I know people in real life who are horrified and intimidated at the thought of posting something where everyone will see - so they contact people privately instead. Maybe we have some lurkers here who do that?

possibly.

[DanteFalling]

I think I just assume women won't like me. So, when one seems interested in me at all, I am apprehensive.

I am wary of either sex if they seem interested in me sexually.

It all depends.

I don't like most people, but I think I enjoy most of the people on this forum.

[INTx]

ENTxs are no better off than INTxs if you ask me. I know from experience. The E combined with NT will annoy others.

Hmm, I know several ENTPs and they can appear to be very charming and friendly. The ENTJs are charming as well, but less friendly and they tend to start breathing fire when things do not go their way (esp when an INTP starts to annoy them by being right, which they are quite unaccustomed to) :)

[Eleven]

I'm not wary of people on forums because of their gender - it's only how they strike me (mostly, you don't know what gender they are until it gets mentioned in a post anyway). If I got a random PM from someone and it wasn't related to anything from the forums, I'd think that was weird - but, again, not a gender issue.

I don't perceive women generally as being annoying, touchy-feely, etc. I may be lucky in the other women I've known. My close friends aren't this way, and I don't spend much time with people who aren't my close friends. High school was a bit different, but I was largely oblivious to headgames, thankfully - and, to a large extent, people seemed to realise that, and left me out of them.

[Indubitably]

You know, now that you mention it I have noticed that I have an easier time getting to know females INTJs myself than I do introducing them to each other. I think INTJs are just wound a little tight when it comes to socializing in general, and have an over active imagination that tends to complicate things even further. If you put two INTJ women in a room they are probably going to force an awkward smile then stand there silently thinking "whats wrong with her, why is she so quiet, females are never this quiet.. she must be plotting my doom! Oh no, what if she tries to talk to me?! I'm horrible at that, I'll give away vital information for sure... ok, calm down, just act normal, think.. make up, I'll pretend to fix my make up.. thats what normal women do, right, they preen, and she can't talk to me if I'm busy.. its perfect.. ok, now if I can just put a large piece of furniture between myself and her current position I can probably buy myself a couple extra seconds in case she...". By the time you get back they will be entrenched in opposing corners of the room grinning cordially and clutching a compact like it was a tomahawk.

Once they talk to each other they seem to get along just fine, its just that talking to someone without a good reason is not in either individual's nature, so they have no natural proclivity towards meeting in the first place.

[Valielen]

I feel a bit weary about both genders...
On first contact from the other party, males make me wonder about what they might want under the niceness and attention if I am not familiar with their posts. Females have been a lot more articulate and I also feel less suspicious of any second intentions.

On me contacting them, I think I feel equally cautious on both genders. It's like talking on the telephone... I can't read the people I am contacting so it freaks me a little and makes me go over and over my messages before I send them to ensure I am as clear as possible.

[Night Runner]

I think it's pretty self explanatory. In my experience women generally have a motive for wanting to hang out with someone or they want to be all BFFish. Not to mention the ones that want to pretend they're back in HS with "she said" blah blah. With the guys you can kick back and drink a beer, watch the game, play some video games and there's no motive other than the occasional wanting to get you into bed which you can shoot down fairly quickly. Girls on the other hand have all these feelings and like to touch you. I don't know any INTJ women in the real world. I don't think I know any "I" in the real world outside of my daughter.

This is one of the posts that make this forum priceless - at least for me. I'm still trying to figure this "real world" thing out, and (sad though it may be) your post was quite an eye-opener to me. Suddenly, things make a *lot* of sense. :)

Perhaps it's due to my overall obliviousness, but I don't pay any attention to genders on this board. Most of the time it's hard to tell what gender the poster is to begin with. *shrug* I just enjoy (occasionally) intellectual discussions we have here.

[Datamaiden]

You know, now that you mention it I have noticed that I have an easier time getting to know females INTJs myself than I do introducing them to each other. I think INTJs are just wound a little tight when it comes to socializing in general, and have an over active imagination that tends to complicate things even further. If you put two INTJ women in a room they are probably going to force an awkward smile then stand there silently thinking "whats wrong with her, why is she so quiet, females are never this quiet.. she must be plotting my doom! Oh no, what if she tries to talk to me?! I'm horrible at that, I'll give away vital information for sure... ok, calm down, just act normal, think.. make up, I'll pretend to fix my make up.. thats what normal women do, right, they preen, and she can't talk to me if I'm busy.. its perfect.. ok, now if I can just put a large piece of furniture myself and her current position I can probably buy myself a couple extra seconds in case she...". By the time you get back they will each be entrenched in opposing corners of the room grinning cordially and clutching a compact like it was a tomahawk.

Once they talk to each other they seem to get along just fine, its just that talking to someone without a good reason is not in either individual's nature, so they have no natural proclivity towards meeting in the first place.

I would agree that talking to someone without a reason is awkward because there is no purpose. All of the fearful mindchatter I do not relate to at all. I am simply not the least bit concerned with the other person.

[Antares]

I don't dislike other females, although several females in my life have annoyed me to such an extent that I've come to view them with great disdain. Most of my friends are females, although for some strange reason, all of the long term friends I've met over the internet (including this forum) are males. That said, I don't have an aversion to females on this forum, although I find males easier to hit it off with.

[curiousgeorge01]

I could see what you're saying JustMel. Women are much better at playing these games than men are (if that's what you hate so much).

I do find plenty of males annoying as well...especially the I AM alpha-male, or prissy I am so important types. But those are usually more easily identifiable.

[Seriously]

I find myself not noticing gender here whereas on other forums I've been on there has been a more obvious division between how the men and women post. I have to say I enjoy the women on here and feel more comfortable with them then I have with women on other forums or in RL.

[Elfrun]

Are you more open to the other females here or the males?

I am actually, I don't have to question their intent for interacting with me, plus NT wimmin are (often) awesome! Mostly I don't pay attention to people's gender though.


ENTs are way more social than we are, but I am not sure if they actually care (any ENT wants to chime in?).

Way more social? Erm, not really, not always.

[Indubitably]

I would agree that talking to someone without a reason is awkward because there is no purpose. All of the fearful mindchatter I do not relate to at all. I am simply not the least bit concerned with the other person.

lol Sorry, I probably should have indicated that the post was intentionally exaggerated. You are right, most INTJs do not quite display this level of social anxiety, although I have met one or two that may have come close. Suffice it to say that in my experience female INTJs are simply more likely to be suspicious of each other than other types because INTJs are a suspicious lot in general.

[larkin]

ok, now if I can just put a large piece of furniture myself and her current position I can probably buy myself a couple extra seconds in case she...". By the time you get back they will each be entrenched in opposing corners of the room grinning cordially and clutching a compact like it was a tomahawk.

In my experience women generally have a motive for wanting to hang out with someone or they want to be all BFFish. Not to mention the ones that want to pretend they're back in HS with "she said" blah blah. With the guys you can kick back and drink a beer, watch the game, play some video games and there's no motive other than the occasional wanting to get you into bed which you can shoot down fairly quickly. Girls on the other hand have all these feelings and like to touch you.

Ha, both of these are priceless. Seriously, it's why I love you people.

As someone of another type, I always find it easier to make friends with women, because they're more open. Usually. Unfortunately, I find it easier to actually be around men, because there's less drama. Usually. Sum: I'd rather hang out with men because they're less work and I tire easy, but I'm more interested in women. Trust me, it's a disconnect that's burdensome to say the least.

[JustMel]

Ha, both of these are priceless. Seriously, it's why I love you people.

As someone of another type, I always find it easier to make friends with women, because they're more open. Usually. Unfortunately, I find it easier to actually be around men, because there's less drama. Usually. Sum: I'd rather hang out with men because they're less work and I tire easy, but I'm more interested in women. Trust me, it's a disconnect that's burdensome to say the least.

In my experience in RL the women who are more open are only open because they're waiting to grasp the informational knife they can stab you in the back with at a later time. Not all women are that way but I live in an area that is full of drama queens who love to start shit. My sister is one of them too and I have only talked to her twice if four and a half years. The family asks "have you talked to her" to which I reply "No, and do not give her my phone number"

This is the reason I like the forum. The women here have nothing to gain and some of them have dealt with the same psychos I have so they appreciate a female that can carry a conversation otherwise they wouldn't last long here.

[Tough Love]

Im not necessarily here to make friends. I am here to learn and share. Women dont like sharing while men do. I prefer men in an intellectual discussion. But when a woman makes an impression on me, its alot stronger than any man could ever make.





Tough Love added to this post, 3 minutes and 34 seconds later...

people in general are far less horrid in this forum than they are IRL.

I disagree with that. I think people in this forum can be just as horrid if not more, but its open and honest which leads to respect and a sense of 'knowing where you stand'

[curiousgeorge01]

In my experience in RL the women who are more open are only open because they're waiting to grasp the informational knife they can stab you in the back with at a later time. Not all women are that way but I live in an area that is full of drama queens who love to start shit. My sister is one of them too and I have only talked to her twice if four and a half years. The family asks "have you talked to her" to which I reply "No, and do not give her my phone number"

This is the reason I like the forum. The women here have nothing to gain and some of them have dealt with the same psychos I have so they appreciate a female that can carry a conversation otherwise they wouldn't last long here.

Yea, most of my close female friends say the samething, they'd much rather be among men than women. Plus I've seen many decent men be torn apart by crazy, self serving women.

Often times I feel women do it because they have no other purpose in life (the ones that do it, not all women)...

[Storm]

*makes note never to send JustMel a nice PM*

I am not more suspicious of women than men, but I do not give out personal information or anything of that nature anyway.

As for games in real life, I haven't noticed women playing games any more than men. Men are just as big as gossips as women, they just don't call it gossip.

[azelismia]

Im not necessarily here to make friends. I am here to learn and share. Women dont like sharing while men do. I prefer men in an intellectual discussion. But when a woman makes an impression on me, its alot stronger than any man could ever make.





Tough Love added to this post, 3 minutes and 34 seconds later...



I disagree with that. I think people in this forum can be just as horrid if not more, but its open and honest which leads to respect and a sense of 'knowing where you stand'


I am going to assume that you noted the "in general part" meaning ratio of good eggs to bad eggs...

but even so, do you really think the people here tend to be worse than the average person on the street or bar that you might run into? when you say that what are your judging criteria?

for me interesting conversation is the crux. most of the people you run into day to day are full of inane blather. at least the people here are interesting. I think there is an oscar wilde quote that sums up my general "feeling" towards the whole thing but I can't go looking it up right now....

[invicta]

No, I'm not suspicious of other women on the forum, I'm socially naive when it comes to other NT women, I know so few irl and wish I knew more.

I haven't received any PMs from any women or men here, so I am not really talking from INTJf experience.

As far as ESxx types irl, I kind of think that they have their own world and I have mine, and that's OK with me, even if I get lonely sometimes.

[JustMel]

*makes note never to send JustMel a nice PM*

I am not more suspicious of women than men, but I do not give out personal information or anything of that nature anyway.

As for games in real life, I haven't noticed women playing games any more than men. Men are just as big as gossips as women, they just don't call it gossip.

Men do gossip as much or more than women. My granddad gets up at 5 every morning to go to McDonald's and have coffee with other retired men so they can gossip and "chit chat". I went with him once and it was like a male version of a Tupperware party without the Tupperware.

I enjoy nice PMs for the most part. More so if I've actually talked to the person in a thread and have an idea where they're coming from. In this case it wasn't a PM so much as a new person reaching out that made me think "what the hell" as I'm not one that many of the newer people message.

[azelismia]

I also want to add, after reading more of this and the way others are responding I am definitely not looking for ulterior motives when I get a PM from another female here. Males are far more likely to bring up red flags. I just assume other women here will be like me, just looking for friends to talk to since it's so hard to find like minded female friends IRL.

[Prunesquallor]

I don't know catty women IRL (I just see them on tv) so I don't have those red flags. Women don't worry me until they do something unpleasant. With males, there's the whole 'you're not hitting on me, are you?' thing that sometimes tends to make me a bit suspicious. Less so here, though - not that there aren't a lot of desperate-for-dates hormonal guys. Someone contacting me out of the blue - a bit odd, but hardly a big deal. It's only internet.

[dalidaisy]

I've never thought to read more into a comment or PM than is there. I really don't think anyone here is out to get me. Maybe I'm naive? This forum did not seem the type of place where I would need to worry about things like that. Well, other than the ocassional troll, but at least they are honest, for the most part.

If someone PMs me, I'll respond, whether I know them or not. Likewise, if a comment is a question, I'll answer it (unless it's rhetorical) & most times I'll respond anyway. Sure, some people on here have opinions that don't mesh with mine, but it doesn't bother me. I definitely don't like to be attacked outright, but at least it's open & honest & there are no games. If someone misunderstands me, I'll do my best to set them straight. I generally like all of you...

[larkin]

In my experience in RL the women who are more open are only open because they're waiting to grasp the informational knife they can stab you in the back with at a later time. Not all women are that way but I live in an area that is full of drama queens who love to start shit.

Yes, many women are more likely to start drama, but I don't think that's why many women are more open. In my experience, women are more likely to be open because they try to process their feelings more and there aren't that many people who are genuinely interested in hearing about it.

Self-serving? Absolutely. I can agree with the statement we're all preening narcissists, I forget who said it. I mean, even the reason I am genuinely interested is because it helps me learn more about other people, and that makes me feel safer. Knowing things about, well, everything, but people especially, makes me feel comfortable. So I'm doing it for my own interests too, it just happens to work out, no specific back-stabbing necessary.

* and, as a side note, I posted about an INTJ friend yesterday who claimed she didn't trust me, and I had no idea why...now it makes sense, it's because I want to know about her, isn't it? She's trying to figure out why I want to know about her? Jesus, sometimes it takes a while for me to put two and two together.

[BlackOp]

No....they are easy to smash. You just have to know what to look for....

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[True Rune]

An interesting thread. I know I've tried to make it known once that I was an asexual so friend's girlfriends wouldn't think I want to date them when I try to be kind.

[darynthe]

Suspicious of other females in the forum and their PMs? Geez, sorry but that sounds real paranoic. Why should I? Unless they ask my credit card number or want me to participate in a partnership in Nigeria I think I am safe from machiavelic plans.

[JustMel]

Funny thing is that I trust the males more than the females. Perhaps because growing up there were no other girls in the neighborhood my age. They were either younger or a lot older. I played football with the boys, trekked through the sand pits and woods with the boys. I rebuilt cars with the boys. My parents came home from work and there would be me and four or five guys sitting around playing cards.

I was the one girl who they all could talk to and know it wouldn't be anything else because I dated outside the group when I dated. I didn't like many of the girls they brought around because I could see through the games they played. I suspect there was a lot of threatening going on behind the scenes because I know there were several instances I told a girl that if she hurt one of the boys I'd rip her heart out and feed it to her.

Most guys didn't have the balls to hit on me and the ones that did always intrigued me because the were either oblivious to the "go the fuck away" broadcasts or they didn't let them stop them.

I've carried that over into adult life. I don't care for most women and tend to be suspicious of them one on one but am less wary in the threads or after I've conversed with them in a thread.

[Plane Stress]

My attitude is: "people on this forum seem to suck less than people in real life, but do they actually in real life?" I know, that wasn't really related to the OP, but someone on Page 1 mentioned something about people on this forum vs. people in real life.

On a more related note, I also tend to not associate people on this forum with a gender, even if I know what their gender is... unless I happen to find their posts intriguing to the point of wondering about them in real life from a compatibility standpoint.

I find it interesting that women on this forum PM each other unprompted. This hasn't happened to me, and I wonder if guys are less likely to PM people they know are male without being "invited" to do so? If that happened to me, though, I wouldn't be suspicious of them unless I intuited something suspicious in the way their message was written.

[curiousgeorge01]

My attitude is: "people on this forum seem to suck less than people in real life, but do they actually in real life?" I know, that wasn't really related to the OP, but someone on Page 1 mentioned something about people on this forum vs. people in real life.

On a more related note, I also tend to not associate people on this forum with a gender, even if I know what their gender is... unless I happen to find their posts intriguing to the point of wondering about them in real life from a compatibility standpoint.

I find it interesting that women on this forum PM each other unprompted. This hasn't happened to me, and I wonder if guys are less likely to PM people they know are male without being "invited" to do so? If that happened to me, though, I wouldn't be suspicious of them unless I intuited something suspicious in the way their message was written.

Yes the ladies should PM us instead of each other! LOL

Actually I've been PM-ed more by males than females..

[charolastra]

I'm not particularly annoyed by most of the other women on this forum (and the ones that do drive me nuts would do so regardless of their gender). Then again, most females I know are indeed INs.

[blatant]

I get along better with women than men.

I am, however, Asian, and I've noticed that I don't resonate as well with other Asian women. I guess it is because they see me sometimes as competition?

But yeah, I know an ENTP, INFJ, and a few INTJs, and an ISTJ in real life who are female, and I get along very well with them.

I definitely have more close female friends.

[loosefanbelt]

On the opposite end of the spectrum, but related in a yin/yang kind of way... anyone feel ignored on threads ever?

[Jennifer]

For a relatively small place,such as an internet forum,I tend to judge people on an individual basis,irrespective of gender,race and nationality.

[True Rune]

On the opposite end of the spectrum, but related in a yin/yang kind of way... anyone feel ignored on threads ever?
Everyone always has their own agenda. I don't think they mean any harm.

[loosefanbelt]

Everyone always has their own agenda. I don't think they mean any harm.

I was not implying an agenda, I was trying to get a gauge on the range of people's experiences!

[dalidaisy]

I was not implying an agenda, I was trying to get a gauge on the range of people's experiences!

Ok, loosefanbelt, here's my experience. Sometimes I feel invisible. Like, sometimes my posts just get passed over & the conversation goes on like I didn't post. I wonder if people think I'm just uttering nonsense that's not worth responding to or they just plain don't like me & don't want to validate my thoughts. Although, sometimes I do feel like I've stepped into a private conversation & interrupted. It doesn't bother me so much, except that sometimes when I post, I ask a question that never gets answered. That can be frustrating. Especially when I keep coming back, hoping for an answer.

Well, I don't lose sleep over it or anything, it's really just vaguely annoying.

[JustMel]

On the opposite end of the spectrum, but related in a yin/yang kind of way... anyone feel ignored on threads ever?

Rarely. I get a lot of rep comments/PMs on most things I say even if someone doesn't respond in the thread.

I tend not to read the whole thing if it's a long post though or I have to come back to it a couple of times if there's a lot of information and I'm in a hurry and only on here for a few minutes.

[Seriously]

On the opposite end of the spectrum, but related in a yin/yang kind of way... anyone feel ignored on threads ever?

I've been on internet forms for a long time and after a few years I realized that ultimately I don't post for other people I do it for me. If someone else finds what I say interesting or comments on it or interacts with me it's great but if they don't I still had my say and that's enough for me.

[loosefanbelt]

To me, this is interesting... putting ideas across in this medium IS different than other forms of communication. To feel that you have put a fair amount of effort into a response and have the bees buzzing on without any recognition of what you perceive to be an important contribution is puzzling.

Especially if someone has put an important question forward and you have spent time thinking about them, and frame things beyond your personal experience for them. And then, they are not interested.

I do not think many of us have such fragile egos that we cannot withstand this AT ALL, quite the contrary. It is just odd to experience it when perhaps in all other sectors of your life people pay attention to you. I have come, in a short time, to the same conclusions as Seriously and Dalidaisy. But I also feel that you never know who will read the thread at a later date and perhaps it will with of interest to them.

I have had pms from things I wrote months previous... so it is in the tome to be considered for whomever will find it of interest.

I like comparing the extreme ranges of possibilities here - there are people who put TMI out there and regret it, people who say VERY little and just read, and those of us in the middle bumbling around, seeing if we can refine each other's thoughts.

[azelismia]

nope. I do not feel ignored or like people pass over what I write. I am sure some do but I get enough responses to a lot of what I write that I'd have to have some sort of insecurity complex to think I was not read by anyone. :)

[Plane Stress]

On the opposite end of the spectrum, but related in a yin/yang kind of way... anyone feel ignored on threads ever?

I almost always feel ignored in threads... makes me go "huh" when I do get a rep comment or get quoted.

[curiousgeorge01]

I'm not ignored often, I seem to make controversial statements that make people jump at me lol! I'm not against it, I like it when people have something to say about what I said provided no insults are thrown.

I actually will need an example of what the message was or was like. I can understand if you can't post it. But I do feel like women do use social skills for many things under the guise of innocence.

[Antares]

Well, I suppose there are reasons for me to be wary of other women IRL, but I don't feel threatened in the slightest with the females of this forum. Most of my friends are female, and I've noticed that within the circle, there's always some sort of drama going on. People would stab each other in the back for the hell of it; maybe it's exciting for them. Frankly, I don't like drama, and I contempt those who create it (and in my experience, it's always the females, with the exception of a few males). With my male friends, life is simple. We never fight (not really, anyway), and even if we do get angry at each other, we get over it quickly. My girl friends hold grudges, and they may look like they've forgiven you, but you know you're the sitting duck for backstabbing. I don't think I'm sexist, but I do see a trend with females towards drama.

[Kele-De]

Try tracking your menstrual cycle and review your former posting patterns when your estrogen levels were at their highest and lowest. I tend to become irrationally suspicious or competitive just after ovulation (the luteal phase). But I think it is logical in the context of our hormonal chemistry. It makes sense for our body to become protective of the components of sustaining a potential life-- regardless if there is fertilization.

My low key cool chick friend and I eventually began to laugh at ourselves when we realized we called each other once a month to complain about things we thought only obnoxious girly girls do to create unnecessary drama. We unscientifically divided the 28 day cycle into phases. Just before the "irrational competitive queen" phase (crying or getting angry for no apparent reason) was the "whore" phase (high progesterone and estrogen levels) where every masculine guy looked so damn good and we'd want to wear sexy clothes and go out into the singles scene. Just before and during menstruation was the "depressed bitch" phase (this is the rejection of the lining of the uterus for you males who are reading this and want to understand). So then we are left with really only one week of rational thought. Perhaps we INTJ women are I's for good reason.

[Cocoa]

I'm not suspicious of other females. I like female company in general. I think I'm a rather good judge of character.

What is interesting to me on the internet however, is how people of the same gender are expected NOT to talk to each other. Like it's some sort of evil sin I'm committing or must have ulterior motives with I have long conversations with a female. So far on this forum my longest chatting companions have all been men. Why do we follow this stupid rule? I feel like we have been brainwashed to only talk to the opposite sex as the "right" or "correct" way to talk on the internet.

Actually, I'll put it out there...
... if any girls want to break this retarded rule, feel free to drop me a line anytime. I'm quite chatty :)

.. and to the guys, keep writing, I like input and interesting conversations from you all. :)


Just trying to break this stupid unconscious mold we have created for ourselves.

[dalidaisy]

I'm not suspicious of other females. I like female company in general. I think I'm a rather good judge of character.

What is interesting to me on the internet however, is how people of the same gender are expected NOT to talk to each other. Like it's some sort of evil sin I'm committing or must have ulterior motives with I have long conversations with a female. So far on this forum my longest chatting companions have all been men. Why do we follow this stupid rule? I feel like we have been brainwashed to only talk to the opposite sex as the "right" or "correct" way to talk on the internet.

Actually, I'll put it out there...
... if any girls want to break this retarded rule, feel free to drop me a line anytime. I'm quite chatty :)

.. and to the guys, keep writing, I like input and interesting conversations from you all. :)


Just trying to break this stupid unconscious mold we have created for ourselves.

I don't normally reach out & start conversations with anyone, male or female. Most of my communication starts from someone contacting me in some way. And, most of them tend to be male. But, I have no problems conversing with females that contact me. In fact, I enjoy having females to converse with for a change when they do. I can be quite wordy (I don't identify with chatty), myself.

[pure potential]

Suspicious? No.

Ignored? Sometimes. I think I earned it. :)

Does it bug me? I care what people think, but not to the point that I let it annoy me (actually its so silly it makes me laugh and want to bug them even more :p). Its a waste of energy to get worried over petty stuff like that.

[LionsPride]

What is interesting to me on the internet however, is how people of the same gender are expected NOT to talk to each other. Like it's some sort of evil sin I'm committing or must have ulterior motives with I have long conversations with a female. So far on this forum my longest chatting companions have all been men. Why do we follow this stupid rule? I feel like we have been brainwashed to only talk to the opposite sex as the "right" or "correct" way to talk on the internet.

In past experiences through chat/instant messenger programs, I found that people wanted to know my gender because the men were looking for women to talk to and the women were looking for men. So, I didn't find that it was some unspoken evil, it was quite obvious, they didn't want to waste their time on someone they couldn't flirt and cyber with. If someone of the same sex talked to them, the reaction was usually suspicion/annoyance. I figured it was like that because if you are there to cyber and you assume everyone else is there looking to find someone to cyber with, then why would someone of the same sex contact you? Suspicion then ensues.

I'm not suggesting that any of the above is at all related to what JustMel was saying, only that I figured it played heavily into why same sex discussions seem hard to find elsewhere on the internet.

[reb]

Just trying to break this stupid unconscious mold we have created for ourselves.

cool! it's NOT unconscious for you, anymore. societal rules go way back; some of them are overwrought to the point they should be done away with....so men 'father' babies, and women carry them. big deal. the person is still a person, and there are common standards of courtesy and behaviour...a games a game, no matter who is playing it.

i'm suspicious of everyone, i think i said, until they prove to me 'intent'. sometimes, that can be a long process. i don't have a problem conversing with anyone who is honestly interested in exchanging views. if they become too radical or want to debate 'small stuff', i might back away....just don't much feel like debate nowadays, unless it's an issue i see as 'big'.

[JustMel]

Try tracking your menstrual cycle and review your former posting patterns when your estrogen levels were at their highest and lowest. I tend to become irrationally suspicious or competitive just after ovulation (the luteal phase). But I think it is logical in the context of our hormonal chemistry. It makes sense for our body to become protective of the components of sustaining a potential life-- regardless if there is fertilization.

My low key cool chick friend and I eventually began to laugh at ourselves when we realized we called each other once a month to complain about things we thought only obnoxious girly girls do to create unnecessary drama. We unscientifically divided the 28 day cycle into phases. Just before the "irrational competitive queen" phase (crying or getting angry for no apparent reason) was the "whore" phase (high progesterone and estrogen levels) where every masculine guy looked so damn good and we'd want to wear sexy clothes and go out into the singles scene. Just before and during menstruation was the "depressed bitch" phase (this is the rejection of the lining of the uterus for you males who are reading this and want to understand). So then we are left with really only one week of rational thought. Perhaps we INTJ women are I's for good reason.

I don't mean irrationally suspicious and I don't compete with females. I had a hysterectomy almost ten years ago so that's not it.

[HeyZeus]

So then we are left with really only one week of rational thought. Perhaps we INTJ women are I's for good reason.

Wow...realizing this is tongue in cheek to a large extent, how is a male supposed to remain in-balance over the course of this roller coaster ride of hypothetical temperament? More challenging, how is the male supposed to behave in order to contribute to the couple balance in relation to this hormonal cycle that manifests itself outwardly as ebbing and flowing emotional need?

I really have no idea and it would be a hell of a test of compassion, patience, and energy to endure it.

[JustMel]

To clear all of this up and so the ones who don't know will understand the situation.....

A lot of you know our custody situation and all that garbage. In one day I rec'd two PMs. One on the forum and one via e-mail. Both from new females (so say their profiles) on the forum. The one here wasn't so weird. Short to the point but puzzling nonetheless because it came from someone so new that I hadn't dealt with and had just started seeing post.

The second that came to me via the forum to my e-mail made me pause because it was in depth about the custody issues and it was a commiserate type e-mail but again not from someone I'd even seen around the forum. Then there was a pic posted by the first PM that looked a lot like my step children's mother. It wasn't her but it kind of made me go "hmmm". I was concerned that she had tracked me here and my thought was "fuck now I have to deal with her in my refuge". I've since learned it had nothing to do with her, just a coincidence but in the situation and for those that know the details you can understand my suspicions.

[azelismia]

it's really not that exaggerated. I wont' say it isn't true.. but for me it's always been mostly controllable. the worst part of it for me is the classic PMS stage. some months I will get maudlin depressed and start crying for no reason at all. at the same time it's happening, you can see thru it and realise what is happening to you but you can't stop it from happening. what I mean is you can see through the haze and have rational conversations about it but it won't stop the tears.

I find if I avoid salt and take vitamins (b in particular) I can mostly skip that part of the month. It's also gotten much better as I age.

[JustMel]

Wow...realizing this is tongue in cheek to a large extent, how is a male supposed to remain in-balance over the course of this roller coaster ride of hypothetical temperament? More challenging, how is the male supposed to behave in order to contribute to the couple balance in relation to this hormonal cycle that manifests itself outwardly as ebbing and flowing emotional need?

I really have no idea and it would be a hell of a test of compassion, patience, and energy to endure it.

Haven't you ever heard that if mama ain't happy ain't nobody happy? Better yet most married men will tell you to learn the words, "yes dear". That's how you deal with it.

[Cocoa]

I was just thinking.... if being contacted by newbies is a problem,maybe we can start a "do not call list" but more like "do not PM list" till 50 posts or something?? And people can join it if they feel bothered.

Personally I don't care. If you have a good point to make, go head and PM me.
I comment on good posts all the time:)

[JustMel]

I was just thinking.... if being contacted by newbies is a problem,maybe we can start a "do not call list" but more like "do not PM list" till 50 posts or something?? And people can join it if they feel bothered.

Personally I don't care. If you have a good point to make, go head and PM me.
I comment on good posts all the time:)

I don't mind the contact it was the context that threw me.

[Kele-De]

it's really not that exaggerated. I wont' say it isn't true.. but for me it's always been mostly controllable. the worst part of it for me is the classic PMS stage. some months I will get maudlin depressed and start crying for no reason at all. at the same time it's happening, you can see thru it and realise what is happening to you but you can't stop it from happening. what I mean is you can see through the haze and have rational conversations about it but it won't stop the tears.

I find if I avoid salt and take vitamins (b in particular) I can mostly skip that part of the month. It's also gotten much better as I age.

Exactly. I avoid salt, alcohol, foods with preservatives and take B-2 and CoQ-10. Exercise for me is a must and it's during that time when I take a moment reflect on my habits and health.

[HeyZeus]

Haven't you ever heard that if mama ain't happy ain't nobody happy? Better yet most married men will tell you to learn the words, "yes dear". That's how you deal with it.

Yes...I've heard that. It seems the same as having your cake and eating it too. I don't expect life to be that easy or tailored for my taste as an adult.

[Kele-De]

Wow...realizing this is tongue in cheek to a large extent, how is a male supposed to remain in-balance over the course of this roller coaster ride of hypothetical temperament? More challenging, how is the male supposed to behave in order to contribute to the couple balance in relation to this hormonal cycle that manifests itself outwardly as ebbing and flowing emotional need?

I really have no idea and it would be a hell of a test of compassion, patience, and energy to endure it.

I know, HeyZeus. You are a gem for being thoughtful on the subject. Perhaps you could conduct some research and write an E book with menstrual cycle tracking software that includes coping solutions. You could market it to the fifty or so men who care enough to go through the trouble of understanding.

Or, you could only date women who are post menopausal. Or, you can just ignore us and not take it personally.

I like the idea of going uber-retro and retreating to menstrual huts like some of our ancient ancestors did.

[Lucid]

In my experience women generally have a motive for wanting to hang out with someone or they want to be all BFFish. Not to mention the ones that want to pretend they're back in HS with "she said" blah blah.

In my experience women like this tend to not last very long in my circle of friends, which is rather evenly distributed between males and females. If I encounter women of this type either on the internet or off I generally remove them from my list of people with whom I will interact.

With the guys you can kick back and drink a beer, watch the game, play some video games and there's no motive other than the occasional wanting to get you into bed which you can shoot down fairly quickly.

It sounds like you're prejudging people based on some negative experiences you've had with some representatives of a particular gender. My female friends (of all types) are more likely to want to drink beer and watch 'the game' than my male friends. Also, ones character rarely has much to do with gender. There are just as many two faced, bullshit males as there are females. In addition, males tend to suddenly stop wanting to be friends with you when you shoot down their sexual advances, which doesn't seem so different to me from females having a motive for talking to you.

As far as on the forum goes, I take people mostly as they come. I'm open to almost anyone who is nice, intelligent and not an internet crazy of one variety or another.

With respect, it seems most likely that your irrational confirmation bias is getting in the way of allowing you to interact with people on an individual level. Instead you see them in terms of their genitalia and that they are forced to overcome the "ugh, bitchy two faced female" reaction you have on finding that someone is a woman. It seems that it would be more desirable to make judgements about people based on their personalities rather than their particular type of genitalia and based on their actions, not on the actions of others with that same kind of genitalia whom you have known previously.

[curiousgeorge01]

In my experience women like this tend to not last very long in my circle of friends, which is rather evenly distributed between males and females. If I encounter women of this type either on the internet or off I generally remove them from my list of people with whom I will interact.



It sounds like you're prejudging people based on some negative experiences you've had with some representatives of a particular gender. My female friends (of all types) are more likely to want to drink beer and watch 'the game' than my male friends. Also, ones character rarely has much to do with gender. There are just as many two faced, bullshit males as there are females. In addition, males tend to suddenly stop wanting to be friends with you when you shoot down their sexual advances, which doesn't seem so different to me from females having a motive for talking to you.

As far as on the forum goes, I take people mostly as they come. I'm open to almost anyone who is nice, intelligent and not an internet crazy of one variety or another.

With respect, it seems most likely that your irrational confirmation bias is getting in the way of allowing you to interact with people on an individual level. Instead you see them in terms of their genitalia and that they are forced to overcome the "ugh, bitchy two faced female" reaction you have on finding that someone is a woman. It seems that it would be more desirable to make judgements about people based on their personalities rather than their particular type of genitalia and based on their actions, not on the actions of others with that same kind of genitalia whom you have known previously.


I think its funny how some people notice this gender difference while some people don't notice it at all. I wonder where this disparity comes from.

[azelismia]

I think its funny how some people notice this gender difference while some people don't notice it at all. I wonder where this disparity comes from.



one is a paranoid viewpoint the other is not. Some people have high paranoia ratings and some do not. Lucid doesn't allow for much bullshit in her life. Justmel has led a life full of bullshit it reads like a bad soap opera.. IOW, if you allow for bullshit to happen it's going to lower your trust of everyone around you. you've basically opened yourself up to all the abusers out there in teh world and your world view will reflect this. If you do not allow for bullshit to happen around you, your trust levels are never allowed to be that abused so you don't have reason to suspect anything.

I also suspect there is a measure of not needing to be paranoid because if someone ends up in your life who is abusing their privledges, some of us have ZERO problem just cutting them off, maybe the people that are more suspicious have a harder time just saying no and it's a defensive mechanism to avoid those situations.

that's the difference

btw, for once i am absolute agreement with lucid. it's a miracle I know but there ya are.

[rara avis]

It seems that it would be more desirable to make judgements about people based on their personalities rather than their particular type of genitalia and based on their actions, not on the actions of others with that same kind of genitalia whom you have known previously.

Well said. Though I have to say the word "genitalia" always makes me squirm a little. There's something nearly onomatopoeic about it.

But yes, this is pretty much my take on things, too. I don't like to see people written off according to gender, either way. My mother does it all the time with men, and it bugs me.

[Lucid]

one is a paranoid viewpoint the other is not. Some people have high paranoia ratings and some do not. Lucid doesn't allow for much bullshit in her life. Justmel has led a life full of bullshit it reads like a bad soap opera.. IOW, if you allow for bullshit to happen it's going to lower your trust of everyone around you. you've basically opened yourself up to all the abusers out there in teh world and your world view will reflect this. If you do not allow for bullshit to happen around you, your trust levels are never allowed to be that abused so you don't have reason to suspect anything.

Yeah, it's just a matter of having the luxury of being able to completely cut people I don't like out of my life. I say luxury because I'm fortunate enough to know a bunch of awesome people of both genders. JustMel, it sounds like, has not had this luxury. Which sucks and probably isn't the result of anything she's done - just the effects of the situations she's found herself in. However, while we can't control all the things that happen to us, we can control what we do about them and what we take away from them. It's not that I've never met people (of either gender) who are as JustMel describes, it's that I've learned to cut them off entirely as soon as I realize that they're like that. And fortunately, my friends are the same way.

btw, for once i am absolute agreement with lucid. it's a miracle I know but there ya are.

I agree with you lots azie, though I disagree enough for you to notice. :)

[JustMel]

And I think you're both judging me in a negative way that is uncalled for. I don't like most women. The guys I grew up with were the ones you kicked back with and drank a beer and watched the game. The girls were too busy trying to figure out how to get what they wanted from the next guy. When I moved to another state there was a vast difference and the females were a lot nicer and I actually made friends with a lot of them and have a lot of respect for most of them but the ones where I grew up and where I am now are generally a pain in the ass. I never said there weren't two faced men either. I know there are and I don't associate with them any more than I do the females that are two faced.

I'm not judging on sex organs. I'm not judging. I'm not paranoid. I had a valid reason to wonder about two females. I asked a question to see if others felt the same way. I don't really care if they do or either of you do, I wanted to see where the discussion would lead.

Azzy-- You have no right to judge my life or call the people in it bullshit. None. I have one psycho bitch I deal with and have to deal with because there are children involved. You might could leave your man because of a psycho baby's mama but I am not one to leave a healthy, happy relationship because of a one night stand that happens to be a fucking idiot and a whore. I have cut far more people out of my life to eliminate bullshit than you have I'd be willing to bet. Including my own mother.

Think before you judge.

[azelismia]

I do think before I judge and I still think that. Sorry you don't like it, but that's my opinion resulting from all the various things you've written.

[JustMel]

I do think before I judge and I still think that. Sorry you don't like it, but that's my opinion resulting from all the various things you've written.

Climb back to your little ivory tower. I don't really care. Obviously you and I disagree and will on every subject. I think you like standing in judgment of others. I'm not the only one you do it to and I'm sure I won't be the last.

You call my life bullshit because of a crazy bitch I deal with when it comes to stepkids. That's your take. I have control over that situation. I vent. You have no idea how I am in real life and I can tell you that I don't tolerate her BS and she knows it. That's why she stays away from me. I was concerned she had found this forum and had contacted me as we are a few weeks away from court to determine custody. Valid reason for concern. She's asked several people who know me where I go online. None of them know of this forum to my knowledge but you never know. google does exist after all.

If you're referring to the shit I dealt with as a child--- again you don't know the situation. I have far less bullshit in my life than most people. There are several on the fringe that would like to start trouble but they stay on the fringe where I deal with them when I choose to do so not when it's convenient for them. Am I harsh when dealing with women--yep because of judgmental females like you who think they know things when in fact they know just enough to form an erroneous opinion.

[azelismia]

you shouldn't care what I think. it's true. but I think the reason this pisses you off so much is because there is an element of truth to it and deep down you know it. it's not just the other crazy woman but the whole life style you seem to be living in.

you allow things to happen to you. Everyone is responsible for their life and where they end up and the things that happen in it. if you have a large amount of crazy stuff happening and are suspicious of everyone who crosses your path it helps to analyze WHY it's happening to you and what you can do differently to change that sort of thing from happening.

here you are just writing me off and what I say off because it's pissing you off rather than actually considering it and just conveniently writing it off to me being a "judging woman"

Well Sure I am a judging woman I am a J. but on the other hand what I say isn't meant unkindly. I am just pointing out why you are seeing something most of us don't see or look for.

[Lucid]

And I think you're both judging me in a negative way that is uncalled for. I don't like most women.

I'm terribly sorry - from your OP it sounded as if you distrusted women because you'd had negative experiences with other women in the past and that you tend to be more suspicious of women because they are women than you are of men. Perhaps you could restate your question or operating premise?

Here's what I mean:
Being female I can say honestly I don't prefer the company of many females in the real world as they annoy me to the point I want to make them disappear.

This statement seems to imply that you expect to dislike most women on meeting them. You follow it by pointing out a few exceptions to this rule from the forum, implying that it's rare enough that you meet women you don't dislike that it is actually possible to list them out.

I'm not judging on sex organs. I'm not judging.

Fine, but the following statements seem to contradict this:

I think it's pretty self explanatory. In my experience women generally have a motive for wanting to hang out with someone or they want to be all BFFish. Not to mention the ones that want to pretend they're back in HS with "she said" blah blah.

Girls on the other hand have all these feelings and like to touch you.

If I'm misunderstanding you, then I do apologize. However, I think you should be able to see how I may have arrived at the possibly mistaken conclusions I mentioned in the previous post.

I had a valid reason to wonder about two females. I asked a question to see if others felt the same way.

No, you asked a question about females in general - only later disclosing that it was the actions of these two specific females that prompted your question. The fact that the question (posed as a generality) was prompted by specific actions by specific females does not make the question any less general.

I don't really care if they do or either of you do

Then why did you ask?

I wanted to see where the discussion would lead.

This is where it leads.

Azzy-- You have no right to judge my life or call the people in it bullshit. None. I have one psycho bitch I deal with and have to deal with because there are children involved. You might could leave your man because of a psycho baby's mama but I am not one to leave a healthy, happy relationship because of a one night stand that happens to be a fucking idiot and a whore.

You need to calm down. Speaking for myself, nothing I said was meant as an attack or a criticism.

I have cut far more people out of my life to eliminate bullshit than you have I'd be willing to bet. Including my own mother.

You should take your own advice below:

Think before you judge.

In fact, it seems that this advice (and it's good advice) could apply to the entire question as you posed it.
I merely answered your question and gave my opinion on it. I'm sorry to see that this has upset you.

[JustMel]

you shouldn't care what I think. it's true. but I think the reason this pisses you off so much is because there is an element of truth to it and deep down you know it. it's not just the other crazy woman but the whole life style you seem to be living in.

you allow things to happen to you. Everyone is responsible for their life and where they end up and the things that happen in it. if you have a large amount of crazy stuff happening and are suspicious of everyone who crosses your path it helps to analyze WHY it's happening to you and what you can do differently to change that sort of thing from happening.

here you are just writing me off and what I say off because it's pissing you off rather than actually considering it and just conveniently writing it off to me being a "judging woman"

Well Sure I am a judging woman I am a J. but on the other hand what I say isn't meant unkindly. I am just pointing out why you are seeing something most of us don't see or look for.

I'm not pissed off. You give yourself far more credit than you deserve if you think you, of all people here, could have the ability to piss me off. You assume you're pissing me off because I'm actually responding to your arrogant bullshit instead of just ignoring you like I usually do when in fact I'm curious just how far you're willing to step into this mire since you're so superior to bullshit and that's what you're slinging. I know exactly why things happen in my life and most of the things that I allow to happen are pretty cool with one exception but she'll be gone soon.

[azelismia]

I'm not pissed off. You give yourself far more credit than you deserve if you think you, of all people here, could have the ability to piss me off. You assume you're pissing me off because I'm actually responding to your arrogant bullshit instead of just ignoring you like I usually do when in fact I'm curious just how far you're willing to step into this mire since you're so superior to bullshit and that's what you're slinging. I know exactly why things happen in my life and most of the things that I allow to happen are pretty cool with one exception but she'll be gone soon.



you asked for opinions and advice.. we gave it and now we're superior bitches? right right.. my fault of course.

[JustMel]

I'm terribly sorry - from your OP it sounded as if you distrusted women because you'd had negative experiences with other women in the past and that you tend to be more suspicious of women because they are women than you are of men. Perhaps you could restate your question or operating premise?

Here's what I mean:


This statement seems to imply that you expect to dislike most women on meeting them. You follow it by pointing out a few exceptions to this rule from the forum, implying that it's rare enough that you meet women you don't dislike that it is actually possible to list them out.

Fine, but the following statements seem to contradict this:

If I'm misunderstanding you, then I do apologize. However, I think you should be able to see how I may have arrived at the possibly mistaken conclusions I mentioned in the previous post.

No, you asked a question about females in general - only later disclosing that it was the actions of these two specific females that prompted your question. The fact that the question (posed as a generality) was prompted by specific actions by specific females does not make the question any less general.

Then why did you ask?

This is where it leads.

You need to calm down. Speaking for myself, nothing I said was meant as an attack or a criticism.

You should take your own advice below:

In fact, it seems that this advice (and it's good advice) could apply to the entire question as you posed it.
I merely answered your question and gave my opinion on it. I'm sorry to see that this has upset you.

I'm perfectly calm. I asked a general question that was prompted by a specific event. I don't like most women when I first meet them. I don't like most people when I first meet them. Men at least--generally-- want to discuss politics, weather, the game or something other than the latest celebrity gossip. Seriously, who cares if Brangelina have more kids or who is sleeping with whom this week?

You haven't upset me. You haven't even annoyed me. You are one of the few I actually respect and enjoy reading your responses most of the time. I think you're over generalizing what I asked. My first thought when dealing with anyone new is what angle are they playing or are they playing an angle. It is especially true of women. Less so of women I meet in the workplace as opposed to the gym. I don't think it at all when it comes to the women I counsel who are leaving abusive relationships. So it's not ALL women. More the setting probably than the gender. I meet more men in business and most of the males who are around the house are friends or family of the husband so they usually don't even hit my radar. The person I most respected in the world was female. But the women I would consider friendships with are rare because of their behavior. I normally can tell within the first 20 minutes whether they're up to something and if they are I don't want to deal with them. I shut down. It happens with males too but I've always had more male friends than females and probably always will.





JustMel added to this post, 2 minutes and 19 seconds later...

you asked for opinions and advice.. we gave it and now we're superior bitches? right right.. my fault of course.

I don't remember calling you a superior bitch..... I don't think you're superior. I think you think you're superior and if you're calling yourself a superior bitch well then I'm not going to argue with one's self perception as it doesn't affect me at all.

I don't lump anyone in with you. You are a breed all your own. I didn't ask for advice. I asked a general question. Advice would mean I was considering a course of action and wanted to know what others thought about how I should proceed. I asked a general question based on specific events to see if anyone else felt the same way. They don't. You can now go back to your ivory tower.

[SquirrelKitten]

When I posted the question about Intj women being sullen, being new to the forum I thought I was slightly under attack. Just reading the last page of this thread I now see that was nothing.

I will admit I am apprehensive of women, more so than men, but the average women I come in contact with doesn't have these confrontation skills. This thread makes me appreciate alot of you in different ways.

[JustMel]

When I posted the question about Intj women being sullen, being new to the forum I thought I was slightly under attack. Just reading the last page of this thread I now see that was nothing.

I will admit I am apprehensive of women, more so than men, but the average women I come in contact with don't have these confrontation skills. This thread makes me appreciate slot of you in different ways.

First, I like this avatar much better than the first one.

This isn't even a real debate or attack. Lucid generally is trying to help or understand or help the person she's talking to understand. She will push you to explain the ideas and reasoning until she thinks you've gotten the point or change your way of thinking. Or that's been my experience anyway.

Before I came here I'd only ever met one other female with the confrontation skills found in the women here and she's dead now.

[Lucid]

I'm perfectly calm. I asked a general question that was prompted by a specific event. I don't like most women when I first meet them. I don't like most people when I first meet them. Men at least--generally-- want to discuss politics, weather, the game or something other than the latest celebrity gossip. Seriously, who cares if Brangelina have more kids or who is sleeping with whom this week?

I don't see much difference between the weather and the game and celebrity gossip, though I do agree with your premise here.

I think you're over generalizing what I asked. My first thought when dealing with anyone new is what angle are they playing or are they playing an angle. It is especially true of women. Less so of women I meet in the workplace as opposed to the gym. I don't think it at all when it comes to the women I counsel who are leaving abusive relationships. So it's not ALL women. More the setting probably than the gender. I meet more men in business and most of the males who are around the house are friends or family of the husband so they usually don't even hit my radar. The person I most respected in the world was female. But the women I would consider friendships with are rare because of their behavior. I normally can tell within the first 20 minutes whether they're up to something and if they are I don't want to deal with them. I shut down. It happens with males too but I've always had more male friends than females and probably always will.

Well I didn't think you meant ALL women, but I did think you were talking about most of them. And it's entirely possible that I misunderstood your question.

I almost never suspect someone of having some kind of unkind or entirely self-serving ulterior motive when they strike up a conversation or a friendship. Even the women (and men) I've known who are as you describe didn't have bad intentions in my estimation; they just didn't think about their actions and how they might affect others. Some people don't. They get all wrapped up in how good it feels to talk shit about people they know, or spread rumors, etc and they don't care enough about others to be any other way. I think these people are just not prone to self examination rather than that they are actually malicious. What they do is more about them than those to whom they do it.

Having said that, it's entirely possible that there are just fewer people of this kind in my life because:
1. I tend not to meet many new people.
2. The people I do meet usually come to me through someone else I know who has sort of 'pre screened' them for shittiness.
3. I live in a very low bullshit city (very generally speaking) and most people are very down to earth. Again, that's a HUGE generalization, but there's something to be said about the character of a region as well.

I'm not trying to imply that you're wrong for feeling the way you do about it and I'm sure that you have some good reasons for feeling that way. But that won't stop me from stating my opinion and backing up said opinion with some substance.

This isn't even a real debate or attack. Lucid generally is trying to help or understand or help the person she's talking to understand. She will push you to explain the ideas and reasoning until she thinks you've gotten the point or change your way of thinking. Or that's been my experience anyway.

That's actually exactly what I was (attempting - possibly unsuccessfully) to do. Also, thank you.

[JustMel]

I don't see much difference between the weather and the game and celebrity gossip, though I do agree with your premise here.

Well I didn't think you meant ALL women, but I did think you were talking about most of them. And it's entirely possible that I misunderstood your question.

I almost never suspect someone of having some kind of unkind or entirely self-serving ulterior motive when they strike up a conversation or a friendship. Even the women (and men) I've known who are as you describe didn't have bad intentions in my estimation; they just didn't think about their actions and how they might affect others. Some people don't. They get all wrapped up in how good it feels to talk shit about people they know, or spread rumors, etc and they don't care enough about others to be any other way. I think these people are just not prone to self examination rather than that they are actually malicious. What they do is more about them than those to whom they do it.

We have two like this. They like to tell you everything that's going on with someone else and if you say anything then they want to run back to the other person and tell them what you said and start the whole game all over. I get called a bitch because I tell them upfront that I don't want to hear it and the other person isn't to be mentioned or they can leave. It annoys the hell out of me.

Having said that, it's entirely possible that there are just fewer people of this kind in my life because:
1. I tend not to meet many new people.
2. The people I do meet usually come to me through someone else I know who has sort of 'pre screened' them for shittiness.
3. I live in a very low bullshit city (very generally speaking) and most people are very down to earth. Again, that's a HUGE generalization, but there's something to be said about the character of a region as well.

Region does play a large part in my experience. I'm in the south. Drama central. When I lived out west I became spoiled because there wasn't as much of the drama. Very much a "what will be, will be" attitude. I had a lot more women friends there than I do back here at home because it was a different expectation. I think part of it here is because I've known my husband since HS so a lot of the people we know we've known since HS. Normally, the people you meet as an adult are different than those you dealt with in HS. I didn't like most of them then and my opinion hasn't improved.

I'm not trying to imply that you're wrong for feeling the way you do about it and I'm sure that you have some good reasons for feeling that way. But that won't stop me from stating my opinion and backing up said opinion with some substance

I know you weren't implying I was wrong. You were trying to make me stop generalizing and to get me to give someone a chance rather than becoming immediately suspicious or closed off because of gender. At least I think that's what you were doing.

[SquirrelKitten]

Not to get off subject, are you implying that those confrontation skills had something to do with her demise?

[JustMel]

Not to get off subject, are you implying that those confrontation skills had something to do with her demise?

Not at all. She was my grandmother who raised me. She died of COPD about 4.5 years ago.

[gestalt]

It's hard to build trust through constructive self-disclosure, especially on Internet forums.

[JustMel]

It's hard to build trust through constructive self-disclosure, especially on Internet forums.

This one is far better than some. I was on a forum for parents and it was great at first then the drama llamas appeared and it went downhill from there. It evolved into a clique and anything you said, even valid questions or advice seeking was judged and attacked. There were some vicious arguments there.

[gestalt]

I've had very similar experiences too.

[SquirrelKitten]

I absolutely see that point about Lucid, actually most of you are very reasonable. I don't think I fully explained my previous thought on the women of the forum and their confrontation skills.

I am hesitant to form new relationships with women because of the drama factor. Holding my own with the women of your caliber makes dealing with dramatic women seem like a walk in the park. Unless of course those drama women happen to be members of my family.

[Sir Paul]

Humans are humans, male or female, people put far to much consideration into gender seperation. I see no point personally as personality is the only factor that defines whether I associate with anyone, I have yet to meet a male or female INTJ that I have not instantly gotten along with and been able to go seperate ways without any qualms. Scepticism is, however, engrained into INTJs minds and thus no matter who I'm in contact with I'm constantly trying to analyse what they do and their motivations, half the time I forget that I'm doing this.

I suspect you're putting too much weight into this gender concept. If you're going to be suspicious of anyone, just outright be suspicious of everyone.

[JustMel]

Humans are humans, male or female, people put far to much consideration into gender seperation. I see no point personally as personality is the only factor that defines whether I associate with anyone, I have yet to meet a male or female INTJ that I have not instantly gotten along with and been able to go seperate ways without any qualms. Scepticism is, however, engrained into INTJs minds and thus no matter who I'm in contact with I'm constantly trying to analyse what they do and their motivations, half the time I forget that I'm doing this.

I suspect you're putting too much weight into this gender concept. If you're going to be suspicious of anyone, just outright be suspicious of everyone.

Where are you meeting INTJs in the real world? I've only ever known one. Lucid made me rethink the way I was trying to say it. I'm suspicious of everyone anyway. Women more so probably because whenever there have been issues in my life they were started by a female either directly or indirectly. But I still don't like most people in general. A lot of it is also regional as I tend to be more open to people when I live out west. Here in the middle of the bible belt I tend to ignore most people.

[floramacivor]

I was just thinking.... if being contacted by newbies is a problem,maybe we can start a "do not call list" but more like "do not PM list" till 50 posts or something??

I don't think we've determined that it's enough of a problem to do something like that - have we?

[rara avis]

I don't think so. Just that an incoming newbie should be aware anyway of the overall personality of the group of people they've entered into... I think most of us are, by definition, more inclined to be matter-of-fact than personally, indiscriminately, warm and welcoming. One way or another, you'd be misguided to expect a "BFF" reaction from an INTJ right off the bat.

I think what started this was someone blithely charging in and accidentally treading on someone's momentary sore spot. In part, just bad luck. It happens sometimes, in approaching someone you don't know, or who doesn't know you.

[JustMel]

I don't think so. Just that an incoming newbie should be aware anyway of the overall personality of the group of people they've entered into... I think most of us are, by definition, more inclined to be matter-of-fact than personally, indiscriminately, warm and welcoming. One way or another, you'd be misguided to expect a "BFF" reaction from an INTJ right off the bat.

I think what started this was someone blithely charging in and accidentally treading on someone's momentary sore spot. In part, just bad luck. It happens sometimes, in approaching someone you don't know, or who doesn't know you.

Pretty much nailed it. If it had happened two months earlier or four weeks later I probably wouldn't have thought much of it. But the thread had been dead for a long time so it was strange to see it resurrected.

[sedna]

Originally Posted by JustMel
I think it's pretty self explanatory. In my experience women generally have a motive for wanting to hang out with someone or they want to be all BFFish.

They are prying for information they can use against you later.

I feel this way about ESFJs & ESFPs. Please don't demonize all feeling-centered women. Those same things annoy me too. Especially if I feel manipulated by their sugary sweetness.

[JustMel]

I feel this way about ESFJs & ESFPs. Please don't demonize all feeling-centered women. Those same things annoy me too. Especially if I feel manipulated by their sugary sweetness.

Good point. I'm not very adept at typing other people. I can usually get the "I" or "E" and the "J" or "P" but the middle ones often throw me. I'm much better at giving a description of someone and letting people who are better at typing tell me the type they think it is and then reading the description of the type and saying, "Yeah or not quite"

[azelismia]

JustMel added to this post, 2 minutes and 19 seconds later...



I don't remember calling you a superior bitch..... I don't think you're superior. I think you think you're superior and if you're calling yourself a superior bitch well then I'm not going to argue with one's self perception as it doesn't affect me at all.

I don't lump anyone in with you. You are a breed all your own. I didn't ask for advice. I asked a general question. Advice would mean I was considering a course of action and wanted to know what others thought about how I should proceed. I asked a general question based on specific events to see if anyone else felt the same way. They don't. You can now go back to your ivory tower.


I don't think I am a superior bitch, I don't think I am a bitch at all. nor do I think I am superior. I was taking the gist of your return and putting the word on it that seemed to fit. of course Superior isn't meant in that context as elevated but just extreme.

Advice and opinions are something I tend to lump together. You asked for opinions and we gave it. Someone else asked why the difference and I gave my opinion on that too.

Nothing I said was meant as any kind of attack or criticism of you and I do not judge you personally when I give my opinion. I don't care how you live your life. I was just making a comment on what I think is probably the difference between those who are paranoid of people who say things and those who are not.

[JustMel]

I don't think I am a superior bitch, I don't think I am a bitch at all. nor do I think I am superior. I was taking the gist of your return and putting the word on it that seemed to fit. of course Superior isn't meant in that context as elevated but just extreme.

Advice and opinions are something I tend to lump together. You asked for opinions and we gave it. Someone else asked why the difference and I gave my opinion on that too.

Nothing I said was meant as any kind of attack or criticism of you and I do not judge you personally when I give my opinion. I don't care how you live your life. I was just making a comment on what I think is probably the difference between those who are paranoid of people who say things and those who are not.

You assume I'm paranoid when in fact I'm not. Neither do I trust anyone immediately. That doesn't make me paranoid, it makes me smart enough to not fall into someone's head games. You also assume I allow bullshit in my life when it's far from truth. I just know the benefit of keeping someone I don't like and trust but have to deal with close enough to keep an eye on.

[Snowdragon]

I feel this way about ESFJs & ESFPs.


Me too.





Snowdragon added to this post, 7 minutes and 1 seconds later...

Those same things annoy me too. Especially if I feel manipulated by their sugary sweetness.

Manipulation may not work on an NT but sometimes they are as easy to shake off as a stubborn tailgater.

[Sir Paul]

Where are you meeting INTJs in the real world?

I'm a chemist and find myself spending 60% of my waking hours in universities (40% travelling). I have met several INTJs as a consequence. Pick a field of study where the collection, organisation and analysing of information is required and you'll likely find an INTJ.

[fraublaukau]

I can't say I've ever had a huge problem with females. True, I get bothered if there's a group of them that look almost the same, but nothing too severe. Infact, I usually don't get bugged by many people regardless of gender unless they lack maturity for their age or consideration for others.
Can't say I'm suspicious of other people.

[fatkattykat]

I'm still pretty new here, but I have not felt any suspicion towards other females here. In some instances, it is hard to tell gender from someone's post. For me to feel suspicion, it has more to do with the person's character rather than their gender. I have been burned by males and females alike. But I also have both males and females as good friends.

[Julia]

It has not ever crossed my mind to be suspicious of people PMing me out of the blue on various forums (not really here so much). It happens to me, but it is either gender. Most often people are lonely or unsettled and want an answer from someone, even if it is a stranger. If it is too out there, I just don't reply, but it doesn't bother me at all because that's always my option. Now if they were knocking on my door I might be a bit bothered. I'm neutral about the PMs.

I haven't often made friends with other women, and I don't like gossip. I've had a personal policy to never discuss an issue regarding people in the environment where that information could affect them. The problem with gossip is that it is not a safe environment to share my own personal information. I'm under no delusions that my information would have a higher level of privacy. I like the idea of having female friends, but am not driven to make it happen. Sometimes I just get a bit burnt out on people in general when the constant issues of crossing my boundaries makes it more work than it is worth.