Censorship in China (split)

[terencec]

Haha! I love those bumper stickers. I read the bible for fun also, and I'm trying to get a King James edition. For some reason, my parents thought I would read a Chinese one (since my family's Cantonese). I especially like this bumper sticker: Thank God for Darwin!

Camelopardalis, I read your profile, you are in China. I believe Chinese government does not allow religion since they are worried ...

It seems it is not true. So, Can someone in China go to Church?

[Antares]

Camelopardalis, I read your profile, you are in China. I believe Chinese government does not allow religion since they are worried ...

It seems it is not true. So, Can someone in China go to Church?

They do allow religion, in fact. There are churches in China and many of my religious acquaintances attend them every week. But I can't say the same for absolute religious freedom. I've heard from my mother (she's leaning towards Buddhism) that the government is attacking a religion or belief because it promotes anarchism (however you spell that) and extreme liberalism. On that, I can't really comment because I have no earthly idea as to where the government of this country stand on the political spectrum. They're not exactly communism, not exactly democracy and not exactly socialism.

[terencec]

They do allow religion, in fact. There are churches in China and many of my religious acquaintances attend them every week. But I can't say the same for absolute religious freedom. I've heard from my mother (she's leaning towards Buddhism) that the government is attacking a religion or belief because it promotes anarchism (however you spell that) and extreme liberalism. On that, I can't really comment because I have no earthly idea as to where the government of this country stand on the political spectrum. They're not exactly communism, not exactly democracy and not exactly socialism.

Do you know the percentage of Chinese in China believes God? I will guess it is very small percentage of Chinese believes God in China. Sorry, I am not trying to insult anyone (don't take it personally). IMO, Chinese in general does not have much moral in my opinion. We see all kind of "fake food" (e.g."fake baby food", Poison toys) from China. I don't believe that most Chinese believes God. I think they believe in "money" only.

I agree that China is not communism or democracy or socalism.

Sorry, I know I am off topic. But I am interested how you see it while you are living there.

[Antares]

Do you know the percentage of Chinese in China believes God? I will guess it is very small percentage of Chinese believes God in China. Sorry, I am not trying to insult anyone (don't take it personally). IMO, Chinese in general does not have much moral in my opinion. We see all kind of "fake food" (e.g."fake baby food", Poison toys) from China. I don't believe that most Chinese believes God. I think they believe in "money" only.

I agree that China is not communism or democracy or socalism.

Sorry, I know I am off topic. But I am interested how you see it while you are living there.

Lol... How I see it? Is it possible for me to have any opinion what with all those censorship and my parents' fiercely defending the government? *pained sigh* I can't even debate with them. I'm serious. As for the fake food stuff... Have you not heard of how materialistic these people can be? I'm not trying to generalize, but seriously... I've heard of too many. My mother's colleague has a girlfriend who does nothing but ask for money from him. He's bought TWO houses for her to keep her with him. I just said: Wow. True, many people are very poor and have bad education. What's a better way to earn money than to fake the products of big companies (especially if you don't have any advantage over others)? Ever heard of the term: Shanghaied? I live in Shanghai. I've heard that the thiefs are very creative. My father just had his pocket PC cell stolen. Money. Yes. All for money. It does wonders. Anyway. Off topic.

The majority of Chinese people follow Buddhism (1 billion, 80% [1]) and/or Taoism (400 million, 30% [2]) but the census of Government shows that only over 8% have taken refuge in the Three Jewels.Common people usually worship also in joss houses of the Chinese folk religion. Minority religions are Christianity (over 50 million, 4% [3]), Islam (20 million, 1.5%), and a number of new religions and sects (particularly Xiantianism).
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Sorry for being cynical about the whole materialistic thing, if I had offended anyone, but that's just how I feel based on my observations.

[terencec]

Lol... How I see it? Is it possible for me to have any opinion what with all those censorship

I know Chinese government censors the internet in general but they don't censor any webpage in English, do they? Since you know English, you can read the news from all over the world. Good for you.

[Antares]

I know Chinese government censors the internet in general but they don't censor any webpage in English, do they? Since you know English, you can read the news from all over the world. Good for you.

Yes they do. They've blocked websites such as Freewebs and Wikipedia. I found a site that overrides the block, but when I search Tiananmen Square Massacre on Wiki (obviously, they've been trying to conceal it), the page could not be found. I tried three times. There's a list of sites that they've blocked. Yes, I can read the news on CNN international website. They've made it illegal to install western channels (such as CNN, Discovery, Nickolodeon etc)! Argh.

[terencec]

Yes they do. They've blocked websites such as Freewebs and Wikipedia. I found a site that overrides the block, but when I search Tiananmen Square Massacre on Wiki (obviously, they've been trying to conceal it), the page could not be found. I tried three times. There's a list of sites that they've blocked. Yes, I can read the news on CNN international website. They've made it illegal to install western channels (such as CNN, Discovery, Nickolodeon etc)! Argh.

I heard you may use open proxy to override it. However, it may be very slow connect. Try it.

[Antares]

I heard you may use open proxy to override it. However, it may be very slow connect. Try it.

I've tried that and it works. Yes it was slow. However, I still found it impossible to search 'certain terms' on wikipedia even when the block was overriden.

[terencec]

I've tried that and it works. Yes it was slow. However, I still found it impossible to search 'certain terms' on wikipedia even when the block was overriden.

Are you planning to leave China when you go to University? (US, UK, Canada, Australia). I don't like censorship and no freedom of speech.

FYI, you don't have to pay anything to go to Universities in France. You can even get money for food when you are a college student. But it may be hard to get a job after graduate.

Another alternative, go to Hong Kong for BS degree (cheaper than US, UK in gerenal but there are good universities) and go to US, UK etc for MS or PHD. You can get the RA or TA job in school when you are grad student (but you have to lie you aim for a PhD, not MS degree) so you don't have to pay anything.

[Antares]

Are you planning to leave China when you go to University? (US, UK, Canada, Australia). I don't like censorship and no freedom of speech.

FYI, you don't have to pay anything to go to Universities in France. You can even get money for food when you are a college student. But it may be hard to get a job after graduate.

Another alternative, go to Hong Kong for BS degree (cheaper than US, UK in gerenal but there are good universities) and go to US, UK etc for MS or PHD. You can get the RA or TA job in school when you are grad student (but you have to lie you aim for a PhD, not MS degree) so you don't have to pay anything.

Yes, that's precisely what I'm planning, and to my relief, my parents support me. I've made a point to never come back, but my parents, being strategists that they are, reminded me that China is a developing economic powerhouse and there are many opportunities to be taken advantage of should I pursue the commercial field. I'm going to try for top knotch universities, but I don't know if I'd get in. For now, I enjoy living with my family and friends and despite many encouragements, have finally decided not to pursue my education in prestigious secondary schools such as Andover, Exeter, Lawrenceville etc. I don't know how much your high school counts in your advantage, but I do know that I'm missing out on many good opportunities which I should have seized.

[Kfbr]

Come to the United States, we will outsource your brand new job to China ;)

[ShaiGar]

Study in either McQuarrie, Monash University or UQ

[quentin]

Falun Gong is an insane and dangerous cult. I can see why the PRC is cracking down on them. That does not mean that I agree with the PRC - religious freedom should extend to all religions, no matter how dangerous and insane.

As far as I am aware, most other religions are allowed to practice their faiths in China - within limits, of course: which means, basically, no political activity. As long as the churches are non-political they are tolerated. Proselytization is illegal, however. The PRC does not look kindly upon missionaries.

P.S. You should be aware that as practiced by the general population, traditional Chinese religion is san jiao, that is "three in one": Buddhism, Taoism, and Confucianism all practiced at the same time. It helps that Confucianism is not strictly speaking a religion at all but simply a moral code of conduct, and that Buddhism & Taoism are so similar as to be indistinguishable at points.

[xhaan]

I haven't read through all the posts, so bear with me.

[slightly offtopic]

I noticed someone mentionin unsafe toys, and 'fake' things.
I'm not going to genarlize the whole of China, or anywhere else, but I have met individuals (from all over the world) who simply have no concept of an 'ethic' in such matters. It's like pigs flying, except even more imaginary. I believe they think "what is wrong with making money? How can you 'steal' an idea? Ideas are not objects, you cannot touch them... what is wrong if I copy someone's idea, or make things cheaper, or of less quality? If what I sell bothers people, then they should not buy it!"

Yeah. People aren't always malevolent, sometimes they just think differently.

[/slightly offtopic]

[terencec]

I haven't read through all the posts, so bear with me.

[slightly offtopic]

I noticed someone mentionin unsafe toys, and 'fake' things.
I'm not going to genarlize the whole of China, or anywhere else, but I have met individuals (from all over the world) who simply have no concept of an 'ethic' in such matters. It's like pigs flying, except even more imaginary. I believe they think "what is wrong with making money? How can you 'steal' an idea? Ideas are not objects, you cannot touch them... what is wrong if I copy someone's idea, or make things cheaper, or of less quality? If what I sell bothers people, then they should not buy it!"

Yeah. People aren't always malevolent, sometimes they just think differently.

[/slightly offtopic]

I heard 50%+ fake things are from China. Not all of them are so bad, e..g LV bags (subjective opinion!). But there are fake food which will kill people. You will be surprised what you may eat in China. They even use the industrial paint on the apples and eggs.

[Antares]

I heard 50%+ fake things are from China. Not all of them are so bad, e..g LV bags (subjective opinion!). But there are fake food which will kill people. You will be surprised what you may eat in China. They even use the industrial paint on the apples and eggs.

Bleh. Down with the fake LV bags xD My mother buys real ones even in China (which is a lot more expensive than in Paris). The last time we went to Paris, she went nutters on Champs Elysees. As for apples and eggs, you have to buy them from reputable sources like Carrefour. Personally, my family never encountered problems on food quality. It's not just fake food. A while ago, Haagen-Daaz ice cream (is that how you spell it?) was found to be processed through an 'unnamed' and 'unbranded' factory. That caused quite a scandal and it was quite disappointing because I just happen to love their ice cream. 'Real' foods here have their fair share of scandalous secrets, not to mention fake food. Also, I remember some big food company (I forgot which, but I'm sure you would have heard of it. It's size and reputation is similar to Nestle) produced some toxic food and was forced to withdraw their product by the Chinese Ministry of Food and Beverages (or something like that)

I think Westerners actually know more about some of China's darker histories due to censorship. Did anyone think that I might have read about the tiananmen square massacre in Chinese? No. It was in English. It was recounted in my school's textbook from a British Publisher.

Falun Gong is an insane and dangerous cult. I can see why the PRC is cracking down on them. That does not mean that I agree with the PRC - religious freedom should extend to all religions, no matter how dangerous and insane.

As far as I am aware, most other religions are allowed to practice their faiths in China - within limits, of course: which means, basically, no political activity. As long as the churches are non-political they are tolerated. Proselytization is illegal, however. The PRC does not look kindly upon missionaries.

P.S. You should be aware that as practiced by the general population, traditional Chinese religion is san jiao, that is "three in one": Buddhism, Taoism, and Confucianism all practiced at the same time. It helps that Confucianism is not strictly speaking a religion at all but simply a moral code of conduct, and that Buddhism & Taoism are so similar as to be indistinguishable at points.

After hard searching (believe me, it was hard, for the key phrase is banned), I managed to beat around the bush and found information on the cult indirectly (and from the Chinese Embassy of New Zealand no less). I can see why it's dangerous. I can see why PRC moves to ban it now. It's infectious and most people are regrettably, quite gullible. I still support the idea of leaving the believers be, but prohibiting the spread of it.

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[terencec]

Bleh. Down with the fake LV bags xD My mother buys real ones even in China (which is a lot more expensive than in Paris). The last time we went to Paris, she went nutters on Champs Elysees. As for apples and eggs, you have to buy them from reputable sources like Carrefour. Personally, my family never encountered problems on food quality. It's not just fake food. A while ago, Haagen-Daaz ice cream (is that how you spell it?)


My friend went to Shanghai 2 years ago, he told me all the import were very expensive (I guess because of import tax). He did not dare to buy anything except the food from US (he thought they were from US) at convenient store. The Haagen Dazs was much more expensive than US. He went to the bars where most foreigners went. The alcohol there were much more expensive than US too. He also told me he could buy fake DVD/CD/software everywhere (not underground).

[xhaan]

I heard 50%+ fake things are from China. Not all of them are so bad, e..g LV bags (subjective opinion!). But there are fake food which will kill people. You will be surprised what you may eat in China. They even use the industrial paint on the apples and eggs.

You very well could be right.
What I'm about to say is not a 'knock' against China, just an actual observation: I can often, a high percentage of the time, get a 'feel' that something is made in China, then I turn it over and see that it was, most of the time. This probably correlates to the fact that a whole lot of things come from China, but there is a definite relation to the amount of quality I see in the object, and whether it is from China or not... things that I find to be really 'well made', tend to NOT be made in China.

And to be fair, one of the few 'prized' posessions I have is from China, it's a foot locker type chest, which is obviously mostly hand made and carved, and very well constructed... though some times I can't help but get the feeling that the person/people who made it just did it for survival, i.e. their talent was exploited.

[quentin]

If you're in China, can you access this link?

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It's absolutely barbaric what goes on in that country.

[Antares]

If you're in China, can you access this link?

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

It's absolutely barbaric what goes on in that country.

Actually, it works, but it's nothing political, so I don't think CCP has a problem with it. Wait... They do this for entertainment? That is plain sick. In Australia's zoos, they only use what is dead!





Camelopardalis added to this post, 5 minutes and 13 seconds later...

You very well could be right.
What I'm about to say is not a 'knock' against China, just an actual observation: I can often, a high percentage of the time, get a 'feel' that something is made in China, then I turn it over and see that it was, most of the time. This probably correlates to the fact that a whole lot of things come from China, but there is a definite relation to the amount of quality I see in the object, and whether it is from China or not... things that I find to be really 'well made', tend to NOT be made in China.

And to be fair, one of the few 'prized' posessions I have is from China, it's a foot locker type chest, which is obviously mostly hand made and carved, and very well constructed... though some times I can't help but get the feeling that the person/people who made it just did it for survival, i.e. their talent was exploited.

People are often underpaid (at least in my opinion. The uneducated are so numerous that finding labor is really not much of a problem. The real problem is here, the laborers deserve more than they are getting, at least from my perspective)... No surprises why big companies like the country.

It's futile, really. I went to Australia to get some high quality goods that are Australian made, but they turned out to be Chinese products anyway. Even the souvenirs. I always marvel at how cheaply I can get a certain product in China and how much I'm actually paying for it in a foreign country, but there are somethings that I really like, made in China but just not available for sale in the said country.