INTJ female pursuing INFP male

[BitsAndBytes]

I'm having a horrible time figuring out how to let him chase me...

I'm so used to being direct, informing people of precisely what I want and require, and what I'm willing to give in order to get it.

I have a lot to offer him; he seems to be the typical INFP in that he's been through several horrifically co-dependent relationships he couldn't bear to end because he didn't want to hurt the other person.

As a result, sometimes I feel like he's waiting for me to become the typical, "clingy", overly gushy female that he's always known.

Unfortunately, he wants that deep, profound, idealistic love that I want also...it's just that declarations of undying love came a lot easier to those toxic women he dated before me. Generally, I'd rather cut off an unimportant body part than express what I'm feeling in my heart for him. I'd really rather not get gushy, but I'm trying.

I'm 33 years old, and quite set in my ways. He is, too. He's afraid of hurting me, and has said so, many times. I appreciate his sentiment, but sometimes I think that his statement about not wishing to hurt me takes away some of my agency in this situation. After all, if I hadn't decided that his personality, characteristics, and lifestyle were compatible with mine, I wouldn't have taken the chance on getting hurt anyway--and it's MY choice to make, not his. I'd just like him to tell me what he thinks; I can't read him, and I've told him that on MANY occasions.

So, here are my questions:

(1) He's introduced me to his family and friends and I've spent time with them, but I'm not quite at GF status yet...at least if I am, no one has informed me of that fact. He's integrating me into his life every chance he gets, but still says he's unsure. Is he? Or is he just afraid of getting hurt again?

(2) He needs to pursue me; I know it. What would be some good strategies for allowing him to do so?

(3) He's in San Diego, I'm in LA. The distance is about 2:20 hrs driving. He's worried about a long distance relationship, though he thinks we have potential. I worry about our potential, but if I decide he's the man for me, I won't let any number of miles get in the way. Is this a recipe for disaster?

(4) He perpetually expresses affection for me physically, even in front of his friends and family. I try to respond, but his social network is quite touchy-feely. It freaks me out when they want to hug me all the time. I'm having a horrible time trying not to scream "QUIT TOUCHING ME", even though I know it wouldn't be even remotely appropriate. I like it when HE touches me, not when EVERYONE ELSE does. How do I deal?

(5) I tell him the truth when he asks questions, sometimes in exhaustive detail. He also tells me the truth when I ask him stuff about himself, but he doesn't really open up. He's the classic strong, silent type, and he finds it easier to express himself through touch and emotion, not through verbalization. As a result, I am afraid that he has tried to communicate with me through physicality as opposed to verbally...and that I've completely missed the message! At what point does my constant demand for verbalization place strain on an INFP male?

(6) I know that introducing me to his friends and family is part of his integration method, and so I go to the family functions I'm invited to. Still, this is costly and exhausting for me...being an INTJ around 100 extroverted people for 10 hours at a time--that I have to be NICE to!! He's met my friends and family, too. To me, this is profoundly meaningful. Is it to him? Or does it simply cost him nothing to integrate another person into his life?

Thank you, all.

[rara avis]

Well, my first thought is that... if he needs to pursue you, he'd better know what he's chasing. I mean, there's something to be said for little games and teasing, but when it comes to the true dynamics of your relationship, do you want to start off by choking yourself back so much?

It sounds like an exhausting pattern to set.

Are you so sure you'll overwhelm him, just being your matter-of-fact self? There's still some chasing & coaxing for an F to do, there - as you mentioned, drawing out our softer, sappier side can be quite a challenge...

[BitsAndBytes]

If I thought I would overwhelm him, I wouldn't be attracted to him. Do I really sound like I'm choking back my true feelings/intentions/thoughts?

[rara avis]

I'm having a horrible time figuring out how to let him chase me...

I'm so used to being direct, informing people of precisely what I want and require, and what I'm willing to give in order to get it...


I guess I'm reading in, a bit; those first sentences kind of set the scene, in my mind. I just had an overall sense that you seem to be tiptoeing, worrying about how not to step on his sensibilities or scare him off. Did I overread?

[BitsAndBytes]

I guess I'm reading in, a bit; those first sentences kind of set the scene, in my mind. I just had an overall sense that you seem to be tiptoeing, worrying about how not to step on his sensibilities or scare him off. Did I overread?
I don't think you overread; I think I wrote unclearly. My main concern is how to keep him attracted to me, not how to NOT scare him off. My personality isn't a turnoff for him (if it was, I'd be SCREWED). My problem is that I read his attempts to integrate me into his life as contradictory to his statement that he doesn't want to hurt me. I'm already involved with him; he's going to hurt me if he goes away. He's acting like we have a long term future; but verbalizing short-term concerns. Which is more important...his words or his actions?

[ElstonGunn]

My main concern is how to keep him attracted to me, not how to NOT scare him off.

I'm not an INFP of course, but speaking as a male (and an introverted one at that), there are very few things, prior to the official start of a relationship, that are more interesting and attractive than a woman who will cut the crap and just say that she's interested without expecting me to play 20 Questions about it.

But that's just my thought, and I'm much more adamant about it than any other guy I know.

[childofprodigy]

I'm having a horrible time figuring out how to let him chase me...

I'm so used to being direct, informing people of precisely what I want and require, and what I'm willing to give in order to get it.

I have a lot to offer him; he seems to be the typical INFP in that he's been through several horrifically co-dependent relationships he couldn't bear to end because he didn't want to hurt the other person.

As a result, sometimes I feel like he's waiting for me to become the typical, "clingy", overly gushy female that he's always known.

Unfortunately, he wants that deep, profound, idealistic love that I want also...it's just that declarations of undying love came a lot easier to those toxic women he dated before me. Generally, I'd rather cut off an unimportant body part than express what I'm feeling in my heart for him. I'd really rather not get gushy, but I'm trying.

I'm 33 years old, and quite set in my ways. He is, too. He's afraid of hurting me, and has said so, many times. I appreciate his sentiment, but sometimes I think that his statement about not wishing to hurt me takes away some of my agency in this situation. After all, if I hadn't decided that his personality, characteristics, and lifestyle were compatible with mine, I wouldn't have taken the chance on getting hurt anyway--and it's MY choice to make, not his. I'd just like him to tell me what he thinks; I can't read him, and I've told him that on MANY occasions.

So, here are my questions:

(1) He's introduced me to his family and friends and I've spent time with them, but I'm not quite at GF status yet...at least if I am, no one has informed me of that fact. He's integrating me into his life every chance he gets, but still says he's unsure. Is he? Or is he just afraid of getting hurt again?

(2) He needs to pursue me; I know it. What would be some good strategies for allowing him to do so?

(3) He's in San Diego, I'm in LA. The distance is about 2:20 hrs driving. He's worried about a long distance relationship, though he thinks we have potential. I worry about our potential, but if I decide he's the man for me, I won't let any number of miles get in the way. Is this a recipe for disaster?

(4) He perpetually expresses affection for me physically, even in front of his friends and family. I try to respond, but his social network is quite touchy-feely. It freaks me out when they want to hug me all the time. I'm having a horrible time trying not to scream "QUIT TOUCHING ME", even though I know it wouldn't be even remotely appropriate. I like it when HE touches me, not when EVERYONE ELSE does. How do I deal?

(5) I tell him the truth when he asks questions, sometimes in exhaustive detail. He also tells me the truth when I ask him stuff about himself, but he doesn't really open up. He's the classic strong, silent type, and he finds it easier to express himself through touch and emotion, not through verbalization. As a result, I am afraid that he has tried to communicate with me through physicality as opposed to verbally...and that I've completely missed the message! At what point does my constant demand for verbalization place strain on an INFP male?

(6) I know that introducing me to his friends and family is part of his integration method, and so I go to the family functions I'm invited to. Still, this is costly and exhausting for me...being an INTJ around 100 extroverted people for 10 hours at a time--that I have to be NICE to!! He's met my friends and family, too. To me, this is profoundly meaningful. Is it to him? Or does it simply cost him nothing to integrate another person into his life?

Thank you, all.

Why can't you pursue him instead of trying to have him to pursue you?

Internal locus of control baby!

[Ekagra]

I am seeing an INFP these days so am very keen on these relationship dynamics. Quite a twist for the fellow to be INFP, though, I must say. I will say that the ghosts of relationships past do seem to haunt the INFP especially and they do take time to move on. Perhaps it is not surprising as they are always analyzing you for evidence of emotional truth, perhaps in the same way that INTJs always go off looking for objective truth. A difficulty of the INTJ/INFP is that both are introverts and so communication can be a challenge. It's where you get to test the mettle of your intuition perhaps.

[BitsAndBytes]

I am seeing an INFP these days so am very keen on these relationship dynamics. Quite a twist for the fellow to be INFP, though, I must say. I will say that the ghosts of relationships past do seem to haunt the INFP especially and they do take time to move on. Perhaps it is not surprising as they are always analyzing you for evidence of emotional truth, perhaps in the same way that INTJs always go off looking for objective truth. A difficulty of the INTJ/INFP is that both are introverts and so communication can be a challenge. It's where you get to test the mettle of your intuition perhaps.

I worry that his search for emotional truth in me is being blocked by my search for objective truth in him.

I can ask him any questions I want to; what questions should I ask?

I don't know what questions will be important to an INFP; the questions I've asked him involve fact, logistics, and plans for the future. Sometimes I feel that I'm not asking the correct questions, though.

If you were an INFP male, what questions would you want to be asked by an INTJ female...what questions would demonstrate that I "get" him, and am interested not just in his brain, but his heart?

[darynthe]

I suggest you look him into the eye alot, you know what I mean with that intensity of attraction. You will have him in a little time. I agree you need to take the first step. I am incapable of doing it, too shy in that aspect. Don't know if INFP males are like this too.

[BitsAndBytes]

I suggest you look him into the eye alot, you know what I mean with that intensity of attraction. You will have him in a little time. I agree you need to take the first step. I am incapable of doing it, too shy in that aspect. Don't know if INFP males are like this too.

The first step has already been taken; I just can't tell if he's cooling off or getting even more into me and as a result starting to guard his feelings.

What questions should I ask to draw him out?

[Ekagra]

I worry that his search for emotional truth in me is being blocked by my search for objective truth in him.

I can ask him any questions I want to; what questions should I ask?

I don't know what questions will be important to an INFP; the questions I've asked him involve fact, logistics, and plans for the future. Sometimes I feel that I'm not asking the correct questions, though.

If you were an INFP male, what questions would you want to be asked by an INTJ female...what questions would demonstrate that I "get" him, and am interested not just in his brain, but his heart?

I suppose the first Q here is if he is attracted to you.

Assuming that is that case though, it is true that INTJs especially have a tendency to be too factual. It is a solution seeking type but INFPs usually just want relationship. On the other hand INTJs can offer rationally based clarification to an INFP but you have to find the ground where that matters to them. That is where intuition comes into it. If you do not find a common direction in your intuitive sense then you might as well hang it up. In any event if you get too strongly into a logical development that the INFP can not connect to emotionally you will loose them. So you have to learn to slow the intellect to a trot and turn up your own emotional sensitivity -- talk about the way you feel about music or art, psychology or spirituality but do not be afraid to engage in the old INTJ critique and call b.s. as you see fit - you may throw your INFP into a rage but secretly they will appreciate it.

[DanteFalling]

I am seeing an INFP these days so am very keen on these relationship dynamics. Quite a twist for the fellow to be INFP, though, I must say. I will say that the ghosts of relationships past do seem to haunt the INFP especially and they do take time to move on. Perhaps it is not surprising as they are always analyzing you for evidence of emotional truth, perhaps in the same way that INTJs always go off looking for objective truth. A difficulty of the INTJ/INFP is that both are introverts and so communication can be a challenge. It's where you get to test the mettle of your intuition perhaps.


I find this to be sound advice. The INFPs I know IRL have lingering emotional issues with past relationships.
They also seem to have a tendency (from my view) of being incredibly let down by their partner but then totally forgiving once that person shows himself/herself to be worthwhile in their estimation. They see the fairy-tale qualities of life and the promise of how life SHOULD be. Therefore, I would project that if you can find things he finds very enjoyable and make them surprises (that are thoroughly controlled on your end to NOT fail), then he will be quite pleased. I have to admit that I don't know if being chased is a long-term, sustainable endeavor for a working relationship for your type. Being pursued can be positive in small ways.

Sadly, in my experience, some INFPs think you have amazing traits you don't, and then they blame you for it. They also tend to hate conflict like the plague, so anything you have to say might be best if framed like a pseudo-apology: "INFP-man I love, I've realized after analyzing this situation, that I have been "feeling" blahbhbhalbhbblah, and therefore I need ask you how I can/what would make you feel/how I can let you know/ etc"

[Josephine1012]

I worry that his search for emotional truth in me is being blocked by my search for objective truth in him.

I can ask him any questions I want to; what questions should I ask?

I don't know what questions will be important to an INFP; the questions I've asked him involve fact, logistics, and plans for the future. Sometimes I feel that I'm not asking the correct questions, though.

If you were an INFP male, what questions would you want to be asked by an INTJ female...what questions would demonstrate that I "get" him, and am interested not just in his brain, but his heart?

I suppose the first Q here is if he is attracted to you.

Assuming that is that case though, it is true that INTJs especially have a tendency to be too factual. It is a solution seeking type but INFPs usually just want relationship. On the other hand INTJs can offer rationally based clarification to an INFP but you have to find the ground where that matters to them. That is where intuition comes into it. If you do not find a common direction in your intuitive sense then you might as well hang it up. In any event if you get too strongly into a logical development that the INFP can not connect to emotionally you will loose them. So you have to learn to slow the intellect to a trot and turn up your own emotional sensitivity -- talk about the way you feel about music or art, psychology or spirituality but do not be afraid to engage in the old INTJ critique and call b.s. as you see fit - you may throw your INFP into a rage but secretly they will appreciate it.

First some disclaimers, I'm ENFP (my E and I are close, but I'm ENFP nonetheless this week) female. So perhaps it's different when roles are reversed, but I highlighted a couple of things that really stood out to me in the posts.

I think Ekagra is absolutely right about emotional connection. It's more than that, to be emotionally connected, somehow also translates to feeling loved. I think it has a lot to do with my quest for authenticity but if someone says they really like me but I don't think they get me, it throws huge red flags and fire alarms.

I find it very easy to feel connected to INTJs, it's like they can say exactly what I think but taking all the "crazy" out of it. It's like having a blurry thought be put into focus.

What I notice most is, I don't expect my INTJs to ask me questions, I'm all about being random and asking them, I guess the tricky part is to REALLY listen, and to turn on your N when I talk about something. If you can figure out connections in what I'm saying and elaborate even more (in a way that makes me think you get me not in a way that makes me want to scream: NO! THAT'S NOT IT AT ALL! I'll be yours for life :p)

It's one of those things where you have to forget a little what point you want to convey today or what's on the menu of things you want to discuss but just listen to the babble. If you pass the test, you get to move on to the next thing on your list that you want to discuss and you will have my full attention.

[Vagrant]

I have a lot to offer him; he seems to be the typical INFP in that he's been through several horrifically co-dependent relationships he couldn't bear to end because he didn't want to hurt the other person.

As a result, sometimes I feel like he's waiting for me to become the typical, "clingy", overly gushy female that he's always known.

Unfortunately, he wants that deep, profound, idealistic love that I want also...it's just that declarations of undying love came a lot easier to those toxic women he dated before me. Generally, I'd rather cut off an unimportant body part than express what I'm feeling in my heart for him. I'd really rather not get gushy, but I'm trying.

I'm 33 years old, and quite set in my ways. He is, too. He's afraid of hurting me, and has said so, many times. I appreciate his sentiment, but sometimes I think that his statement about not wishing to hurt me takes away some of my agency in this situation. After all, if I hadn't decided that his personality, characteristics, and lifestyle were compatible with mine, I wouldn't have taken the chance on getting hurt anyway--and it's MY choice to make, not his.I feel like I must be your younger doppleganger somehow... because I've had this exact same experience, only with a female INFP.

[BitsAndBytes]

I feel like I must be your younger doppleganger somehow... because I've had this exact same experience, only with a female INFP.

What did you do?

[Vagrant]

What did you do?

Well, I think her situation may have been a little different than your INFP's, but essentially she started doing a hot & cold thing with me, and since one of the first things I want in any relationship is consistency, I had to call it off. Right now we're just friends.

[BitsAndBytes]

Well, I think her situation may have been a little different than your INFP's, but essentially she started doing a hot & cold thing with me, and since one of the first things I want in any relationship is consistency, I had to call it off. Right now we're just friends.

Hmm. That hot-and-cold thing is interesting. I'm so clueless I can't even tell if it's hot-and-cold, or if it's different moods, or if he's restraining himself from a full emotional commitment to me because he's waiting to figure out what I "feel" like. I made my mind up almost--compared to him--instantly. I think; he feels. It's quite strange, but appealing on a (EEWW) emotional level.

How do I tell when he's made his mind up? For an INFP, is it even a decisionmaking process as I would understand it?

[curiousgeorge01]

I find it odd that women interested need to 'make' men chase them. It seems ironic in you chasing him you need him to chase you. Its like a dog playing with his tail! Ruff!*

[BitsAndBytes]

Just because I'm an INTJ doesn't mean I'm not a woman. The knowledge other women have instinctually about how to attract men does not come naturally to me. Instead, I've collected information about successful patterns in mate attraction, both by experimenting myself, and by watching other women operate (when they seem to have an attractiveness/intelligence level similar enough to mine to make their behavior relevant to me). We all know that INTJs don't experience the intuition about how others emotionally operate; I use pattern recognition and repetitive behaviors to figure out why people are doing what they're doing.

There are some benefits to this: I can tell when something's wrong with him even when he doesn't yet realize it, and can modify my behavior to ameliorate his irritation. Because I notice a break in his behavior pattern, I may know about a problem before an emotionally intuitive person would, simply because someone using emotional intuition would only realize that there was something wrong with the other person when THAT PERSON realized it, and not before. To be fair, he can also practically read my mind when it comes to something irritating ME, but he won't realize something's wrong until I do.

As far as letting him chase me, I'm still female, and given my observation of dominant alpha males, they must feel that they are successful in a hunt for a prize, not just found to be personally acceptable to a given female.

I wouldn't be attracted to him if he wasn't an alpha male, but that also means letting him do some of the heavy lifting, both literally and figuratively. The problem is that even though I understand this intellectually, I don't really know how to "act as if". I'm blunt and tactless, which means I'm more likely to give him a note saying "Do you like me? Check YES or NO."

[Andwinter]

an alpha INFP male?

How did you type him as INFP?

[BitsAndBytes]

an alpha INFP male?

How did you type him as INFP?

He took the test.

[Andwinter]

The tests are not 100% reliable and I suspect error, though alternatively I have been confused by what you mean when you say 'alpha male', which is decidedly not part of the infp stereotype.

The following link is to a thread titled "The alpha male and the INFP".
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

If you want to know how INFP's look at relationships with INTJ's then a search for INTJ on the site To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. a fairly active INFP forum, will turn up many threads concerning the INFPs experiences and views of the INFP-INTJ relationship and its dynamics.

[BitsAndBytes]

The tests are not 100% reliable and I suspect error, though alternatively I have been confused by what you mean when you say 'alpha male', which is decidedly not part of the infp stereotype.

The following link is to a thread titled "The alpha male and the INFP".
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

If you want to know how INFP's look at relationships with INTJ's then a search for INTJ on the site To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. a fairly active INFP forum, will turn up many threads concerning the INFPs experiences and views of the INFP-INTJ relationship and its dynamics.

Those were two FASCINATING links. Thanks! And yes...he actually IS an alpha male by every definition I've seen that involves personal characteristics of self control and confidence; I don't think he's a trollop, but you never really know, do you? Especially if you're an INTJ...we probably perfectly fit the definition of the closest ones being the last to know.

[Andwinter]

You are welcome.

What is a 'trollop'? I checked the dictionary but all the definitions referred to females and do not make any sense in terms of the current discussion.

[Fecal McAngry]

I'm having a horrible time figuring out how to let him chase me...

I'm so used to being direct, informing people of precisely what I want and require, and what I'm willing to give in order to get it.

I have a lot to offer him; he seems to be the typical INFP in that he's been through several horrifically co-dependent relationships he couldn't bear to end because he didn't want to hurt the other person.

As a result, sometimes I feel like he's waiting for me to become the typical, "clingy", overly gushy female that he's always known.

Unfortunately, he wants that deep, profound, idealistic love that I want also...it's just that declarations of undying love came a lot easier to those toxic women he dated before me. Generally, I'd rather cut off an unimportant body part than express what I'm feeling in my heart for him. I'd really rather not get gushy, but I'm trying.

I'm 33 years old, and quite set in my ways. He is, too. He's afraid of hurting me, and has said so, many times. I appreciate his sentiment, but sometimes I think that his statement about not wishing to hurt me takes away some of my agency in this situation. After all, if I hadn't decided that his personality, characteristics, and lifestyle were compatible with mine, I wouldn't have taken the chance on getting hurt anyway--and it's MY choice to make, not his. I'd just like him to tell me what he thinks; I can't read him, and I've told him that on MANY occasions.

So, here are my questions:

(1) He's introduced me to his family and friends and I've spent time with them, but I'm not quite at GF status yet...at least if I am, no one has informed me of that fact. He's integrating me into his life every chance he gets, but still says he's unsure. Is he? Or is he just afraid of getting hurt again?

(2) He needs to pursue me; I know it. What would be some good strategies for allowing him to do so?

(3) He's in San Diego, I'm in LA. The distance is about 2:20 hrs driving. He's worried about a long distance relationship, though he thinks we have potential. I worry about our potential, but if I decide he's the man for me, I won't let any number of miles get in the way. Is this a recipe for disaster?

(4) He perpetually expresses affection for me physically, even in front of his friends and family. I try to respond, but his social network is quite touchy-feely. It freaks me out when they want to hug me all the time. I'm having a horrible time trying not to scream "QUIT TOUCHING ME", even though I know it wouldn't be even remotely appropriate. I like it when HE touches me, not when EVERYONE ELSE does. How do I deal?

(5) I tell him the truth when he asks questions, sometimes in exhaustive detail. He also tells me the truth when I ask him stuff about himself, but he doesn't really open up. He's the classic strong, silent type, and he finds it easier to express himself through touch and emotion, not through verbalization. As a result, I am afraid that he has tried to communicate with me through physicality as opposed to verbally...and that I've completely missed the message! At what point does my constant demand for verbalization place strain on an INFP male?

(6) I know that introducing me to his friends and family is part of his integration method, and so I go to the family functions I'm invited to. Still, this is costly and exhausting for me...being an INTJ around 100 extroverted people for 10 hours at a time--that I have to be NICE to!! He's met my friends and family, too. To me, this is profoundly meaningful. Is it to him? Or does it simply cost him nothing to integrate another person into his life?

Thank you, all.
Wait a sec. I'm a 37 year old straight male INFP. In Los Angeles. Who has had mad crushes on two INTJ females in my lifetime. So WTF are you pursuing HIM instead of ME?

Okay, random thoughts from a weary brain:

1) Don't know. INFPs are often unsure, until they ARE sure, in which case they can be VERY sure, and VERY committed. My suggestion would be to express how YOU feel, directly, in whatever manner seems most natural. Maybe via email , if that's less intimidating. How he responds should be telling.
2) If he really needs to pursue you...well, if it were ME and you started dating other guys, that would certainly get my ass in gear right pronto--if I really wanted you, I'd move mountains.

I don't suggest you actually do this, however; that's manipulative as hell. I'm sure you can dream up some obstacles if you absolutely need to.

But WHY does HE need to pursue YOU? Isn't he the female type? Aren't you the dude in this relationship? What is he, a macho INFP from South America or Israel;)?

3) Distance is no obstacle at all.
4) Tell him what you like and dislike. Tell other people what you like and dislike. Be assertive. Not rude, but assertive. Be true to yourself. Be tactful, but do not martyr yourself. "Man is not a sacrificial animal"--Ayn "INTJ" Rand

5) You sure he's an INFP rather than an ISFP? The "He's the classic strong, silent type, and he finds it easier to express himself through touch and emotion, not through verbalization. As a result, I am afraid that he has tried to communicate with me through physicality as opposed to verbally" part makes me wonder. INFPs generally love to have deep, emotionally laden intimate conversation with those they love, IN ADDITION to expressing affection physically. If he is an INFP, and not an ISFP (or, gawd forbid, an ISTP), could this be a cultural difference? If so, is it surmountable?

In any case, answer is same as for #4. "Express yourself," to quote an ESTP who once married an INFP (Madonna/Sean). Be candid about what you want from him and ask for clarity re: what he wants for you. Don't worry too much about making a mistake, everyone makes mistakes and butts heads from time to time, if it's a relationship built to last the resiliency and learning curve will be self-evident.

6) See above;)

BTW...Re: My two unsuccessful INTJ fixations. In both cases, I saw the potential for something very special, but they either didn't or figured the obstacles to such a relationship were too high or the cost of achieving such a bond would be too great (In each case I felt the attraction was reciprocal, but my gut sense was they were...allowing the head to overrule the heart. As INTJs can do, at times to their long term detriment (in certain areas, in my view, esp. relationships). My point, in a roundabout way, is that the potential for a wonderful relationship may indeed be there in an "ideal world" or "alternate universe" but you both need to want the same thing in the here and now.

As regards the above, I generally love INTJ directness, provided it is benevolent, tactful and compassionate (put the talons away, you know how to use them, I'm sure, but please choose not to). If an INTJ female were direct about her intense feelings for me, and I was uncertain of my own, her directness would help clarify for me my own murky feelings. If an INTJ female were uncomfortable with my degree of physical affection (or at least PDAs [not really my thing]), I would not be offended with her expression of this need, provided she was affectionate to/appreciative of/ me in private in her own intense INTJ way. It doesn't need to be done in ESFP Elvis style to get the point across.

I think the above applies to, well, pretty much everything.

INTJs & INFPs are an interesting combo. The similarities are striking, as are the differences...





Fecal McAngry added to this post, 2 minutes and 9 seconds later...

Which is more important...his words or his actions?
If there is a conflict between words and actions, obviously actions speak the truth. But they both ought to be congruent.





Fecal McAngry added to this post, 2 minutes and 11 seconds later...

I worry that his search for emotional truth in me is being blocked by my search for objective truth in him.

I can ask him any questions I want to; what questions should I ask?

I don't know what questions will be important to an INFP; the questions I've asked him involve fact, logistics, and plans for the future. Sometimes I feel that I'm not asking the correct questions, though.

If you were an INFP male, what questions would you want to be asked by an INTJ female...what questions would demonstrate that I "get" him, and am interested not just in his brain, but his heart?
I would like to be asked by whomever cared for me whatever they honestly wanted to know. I can't answer what that is for you; only you can do that. Do know that nothing is off limits.

[BitsAndBytes]

Fecal McAngry added to this post, 2 minutes and 11 seconds later...


I would like to be asked by whomever cared for me whatever they honestly wanted to know. I can't answer what that is for you; only you can do that. Do know that nothing is off limits.

Dammit, stop EMOTING! lol

I would like a list of specific questions that YOU like to be asked by women. DON'T EVADE!! (sorry, that's a bit of my own angst coming out. All that damn INFP sensitivity means he hates telling me what HE wants, and instead, wants me to just KNOW! Wouldn't it just be flattering to know that someone had actually done RESEARCH to figure you out, mentally, emotionally, sexually?)

[Kisai]

bitsandbytes:

INFPs are by nature, a bit passive. They'll become really romantic when they twig onto it, but they have to twig onto it first. If you want to catch an INFP male, you'll have to actively pursue him. Having deep meaningful conversations are par for INFPs, so you'll actually have to tender signs of affection. Send him flowers or somesuch. He should notice.

[phoenix]

INFPs are by nature, a bit passive.


A bit? That's like saying jumping in the deep end of the pool will get you a bit wet.

My experience is that INFPs, while they may have the ability to take the lead in particular instances, prefer to let others lead in romance. The INFP man I am pursuing is exactly like this. He's strong and decisive at work, and can even make plans for thing for us to do together with no problem. However, it takes FOREVER for him to accept that the emotion he is feeling for me is true and valid. Hence the "not quite at GF" status you mention.

My suggestion...pursue him. Pursue him hard. Take every sensual trick you've seen and try it, and then try some new ones you thought up yourself. They don't scare easily, though the unorthodox will probably help keep him on his toes. Shake up the outfits, the ideas, the outings...hiking, then museums, then just going out for drinks. And while you're tantalizing him, listen to him. His mind will skip from topic to topic. He'll tell stories about people you've never met and will probably never meet. Don't plan your questions in advance. His mind won't respond well to questions that aren't where his thoughts are flitting currently. Rather, listen and ask questions based on what you hear.

Eventually he'll tell you how wonderful it is to have someone who actually interacts with him, lets him be himself. Except to you (or to me at least) it feels like there was practically no interaction at all! I listen, he talks, and it makes him happy.

The touching is key to the INFP. You will always get touches, hugs, hand-holding. I would suggest enjoying it. I've never been with anyone as gentle, thoughtful, warm, and loving as this man. But you will have to be very, very, very, very patient if you hope to make it to GF.

Good luck!

[Fecal McAngry]

Dammit, stop EMOTING! lol

I would like a list of specific questions that YOU like to be asked by women. DON'T EVADE!! (sorry, that's a bit of my own angst coming out. All that damn INFP sensitivity means he hates telling me what HE wants, and instead, wants me to just KNOW! Wouldn't it just be flattering to know that someone had actually done RESEARCH to figure you out, mentally, emotionally, sexually?)
Sure. Absolutely. Really, I would.

Look---I once had an ENFJ acting teacher who thought highly of me, and in some journal entry I wrote something like "Please read my mind. And if you can't, learn to." She thought that was rather amusing, and in fact she did intuitively understand me in a way that few do.

But look...yes, we INFPs love to be understood, viscerally, instantly, and without all the heavy lifting that "real" communication sometimes involves. INFP Bob Dylan again comes to mind: "I see nothing to be gained by any explanation/There are no words that need to be said..."

Still, IRL, it doesn't work that way, and of course I think any INFP with some modicum of typological balance (read: maturity) would welcome a gentle interrogation<g>. Just communicate INTEREST and SINCERE CURIOSITY rather than treating him as a petri dish specimen. I once had a female INTJ college dean who told me "You're a very odd bird," which left me feeling a bit weirded out. Not that she was wrong, mind you;)

Again, while questions don't matter, specifically, why not ask him about what you appear to be most interested in, namely his future aspirations, and how you do or do not fit into them? What does he hope to be doing 10 years from now? What would his ideal marriage/relationship look like, were he one of the partners? What are his values? (The last is important. I believe Meryl Streep is an INFP married to an INTJ To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ; she once credited the success of her marriage to the fact that [paraphrase] "we disagree about almost everything except the big things.").

But again (ducking) ANYTHING you are curious about is prolly a good idea.





Fecal McAngry added to this post, 16 minutes and 7 seconds later...

A bit? That's like saying jumping in the deep end of the pool will get you a bit wet.

My experience is that INFPs, while they may have the ability to take the lead in particular instances, prefer to let others lead in romance. The INFP man I am pursuing is exactly like this. He's strong and decisive at work, and can even make plans for thing for us to do together with no problem. However, it takes FOREVER for him to accept that the emotion he is feeling for me is true and valid. Hence the "not quite at GF" status you mention.

And remember, a lot of this kind of trepidation does come from a very real fact: INFPs can feel love so deeply that heartbreak can be devastating for us in a way that other types may not relate to. I'm talking mother-in-Afghanistan-weeping-and-tearing-her-hair-out-because-American-warplanes-"accidentally"-killed-her-entire-family type grief. Not always, but sometimes...

[BitsAndBytes]

bitsandbytes:

INFPs are by nature, a bit passive. They'll become really romantic when they twig onto it, but they have to twig onto it first. If you want to catch an INFP male, you'll have to actively pursue him. Having deep meaningful conversations are par for INFPs, so you'll actually have to tender signs of affection. Send him flowers or somesuch. He should notice.

Define "deep, meaningful conversation". My idea of a meaningful conversation involves the intersection of physics and politics. Are there specific topics that make it meaningful? In the views of somebody who emotes a lot (but under the surface)?

[cmrain]

I'd pass him the note. Check yes or no.

(5) I tell him the truth when he asks questions, sometimes in exhaustive detail. He also tells me the truth when I ask him stuff about himself, but he doesn't really open up. He's the classic strong, silent type, and he finds it easier to express himself through touch and emotion, not through verbalization. As a result, I am afraid that he has tried to communicate with me through physicality as opposed to verbally...and that I've completely missed the message! At what point does my constant demand for verbalization place strain on an INFP male?
Constant demand for verbalization places a strain on any male. He will appreciate being able to express himself in a way that is natural for him. He will also appreciate the fact that, as a female, you are able to verbalize but do not insist that he reciprocate. That he is a strong silent type speaks volumes. The words that he does speak tend to carry more weight when there are fewer of them to go around. Sounds like a very normal guy to me. He doesn't need to go into elaborate detail. His world is not verbally complicated nor should it be.

The attempt to get a strong silent man to verbalize more is an age old problem for females. Would you even be attracted to him if he literally turned on a dime and stopped being the strong silent type that he is now? You would be looking at a very different man.

If he is sending you messages, you probably aren't missing them. He will try to communicate simple ideas that are not inherently confusing or hard to pick out. It is likely that you are trying to read too far into his expressions...that you are trying to analyze and decipher excessively. Again that is an issue of male/female dynamics and not easily described by personality indicators.

Just speaking in terms of being a man, I haven't met any guy who can't respond to a direct question. It is in our blood. The way to communicate with a man is to go ahead and ask your direct questions, but avoid frequent open-ended questions. Just being direct by itself won't cut the mustard. Women tend to try to extract verbalization from a man by asking open-ended questions. Men see right through this and it doesn't work. When this happens to me, I feel like a woman is fishing or somehow needy, especially when it happens repetitively.

(2) He needs to pursue me; I know it. What would be some good strategies for allowing him to do so?

What areas of your relationship does he have the greater drive? Those will be the areas where he will pursue you.

[Frag]

given my observation of dominant alpha males, they must feel that they are successful in a hunt for a prize
Too bad you've picked an INFP. They are generally not alphas in any sense.

I wouldn't be attracted to him if he wasn't an alpha male
Are you sure?

Something is VERY inconsistent here - you claim this guy is both INFP and "alpha male" and yet the thread title says you're chasing him. This doesn't make sense.

And when something doesn't make sense, one of your assumptions must be wrong.

[floramacivor]

"INFP-man I love, I've realized after analyzing this situation, that I have been "feeling" blahbhbhalbhbblah

Just curious - but would it really feel like "blahbhbhalbhbbla" to the INTJ saying this? ;)

To the OP: There's an INFP forum out there somewhere - you might also ask your question there and get more INFP perspectives.

[Frag]

you might also ask your question there and get more INFP perspectives.
Or more of our many local INFP members. ;-)

[Fecal McAngry]

Define "deep, meaningful conversation". My idea of a meaningful conversation involves the intersection of physics and politics. Are there specific topics that make it meaningful? In the views of somebody who emotes a lot (but under the surface)?

Unless your INFP has specific knowledge--on your level--of physics, or wants to learn, politics is a better choice. Everyone, and certainly every INFP, has fairly definitive POVs re: politics, even if they don't know WHY they hold said views. (Though I'd be quite curious about what the intersection of physics and politics IS--I presume we're not talking about things like building safety codes and mandatory airbags--Global "Warming"...er...Cooling...er "Climate Change" AKA The Evil INTP AlGore's desire to sell us a disaster that isn't happening so he can make billions while billions are impoverished as a result---now that might be a fun topic of discussion. Notice btw, that I have no personal POV on this subject <g>).

Re: "Deep" and "Meaningful"--to me this evokes, from an MBTI perspective a combo of

Introversion and iNtuition (Deep)

and

(Feeling, esp. Introverted Feeling, and iNtuition)

So getting there should be very easy, provided you are the real private you, and not, say, INTJ Hillary Clinton's bullshit public persona.

BTW--I am a huge fan of the late, great, superbright INTJ Michael Crichton's perspectives on climate change--there may be an interview he did on the subject with INFJ Charlie Rose available somewhere online which is well worth seeing...not only was it a contrast between an exceedingly bright guy and a merely bright interviewer, but it also was a good example of the difference between an inTj and an inFj re: controversial subjects, groupthink, etc. On the latter, here's a tidbit of an interview James Toback, whom I presume is an ENFP, recently gave regarding INFP Mike Tyson:

From To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

The rape charge and critics as lemmings...




First of all there'd be no reason on earth for him to spend 15 years lying to me about it... He's always told me, not told me, it's far too impassioned to use a verb like "told," -- he has always insisted that it is a horrifying example of railroading and that he under no stretch of the word could possibly be thought of as having raped her...In fact, he said if 500 people were watching he said there isn't one who could legitimately say that's what happened. But when you put in the fact, as you're just talking about, people don't see anything but the outside information surrounding context and that's what they believe. Because it's easier to do that. It's easier to go through life always believing what the herd mentality leads you to believe because you're always on safe ground. As long as I say what I am supposed to say, no one can nail me, because I'm just saying what everybody else is saying or everybody in my group is saying. It's like opinions of movies. There are film reviewers who are incapable of having an opinion till they have polled the group they are part of and make sure they are not going to be off base. It's embarrassing to a point of being ugly and creepy. The idea of that I would ever have an opinion because I thought I was supposed to have it is so nauseating to me that I would rather slit my throat. You've packed it in as a human being... I cannot say what I think because I'm afraid of what people I want to be a part of might not like me and will be upset that I said it or think there's something wrong with me? Fuck them and their ancestors.




The rape charge was always suspicious to me -- and what does convicted really mean anyway?




You start to look at it and say, this is fucking ridiculous. What do you mean, convicted as if it were a word we should be in awe of and the case is closed, discussion is over. Oh my god! It means he did it! No, it doesn't. It means it was he was convicted. The reason I have this fresh in my mind is because many people ask me about it. Convicted rapist. Convicted, convicted. This is why Wittgenstein was my favorite philosopher because he was the first one when I read him when I was 15 who started making me think about language as a suspect. That language can be used to conceal, to deceive to mislead even uncousiously as much as it can be used to reveal. And that often, we use langue as a tool of preventing meaning from coming through not as a way of creating meaning or truth.




Yes, writers say a lot and mean nothing, even when they're being supposedly "out there" -- it's often always just enough to please their group.




Yes. I think this kind of group thinking class thinking, is the bane of any kind of honest approach to life and I am always so antagonistic towards it wherever I see it, that I'd rather defend someone who is guilty then convict somebody who is whether he is innocent or not, the conviction is based on this kind of group thinking...where we all know this. Everybody knows that. Who's everybody? Well, I and my friends. It always going back to the basics. This is why Dostoyevsky was the greatest novelist who ever lived, because he assumed nothing. He started with the notion, (well that's not true he assumed the Russian Orthodox Church was perfect, but if you put aside that insanity) everything else he did started with a fresh perspective of human personality and the dynamic of human behavior and love and sex and madness and money. Nothing was assumed. Everything was original.





Fecal McAngry added to this post, 31 minutes and 2 seconds later...

Too bad you've picked an INFP. They are generally not alphas in any sense.


Are you sure?

Something is VERY inconsistent here - you claim this guy is both INFP and "alpha male" and yet the thread title says you're chasing him. This doesn't make sense.

And when something doesn't make sense, one of your assumptions must be wrong.

Was John Lennon, circa 1965 perceived as an alpha male? Laurence Olivier or Bob Dylan in '66? Brando in the early 50s? Is Sean Penn today?

I, too, thought perhaps he is not an INFP based on the description--possibly too S, maybe even too E.

But one funny thing about INFPs is that...if there are 100 areas of their life, they may only be definitive and assertive within, say, 3 of those areas. But if one or more of those 3 areas is what the public SEES, the perception of them may indeed be of a person who is extremely...dominant.

I recall the two bios of Anthony Hopkins I've read, and while he is a truly gentle and unassuming INFP IRL, when he is working, he is unquestionably The Man.

Tony pays tribute to a certain INTJ: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[Kisai]

Define "deep, meaningful conversation". My idea of a meaningful conversation involves the intersection of physics and politics. Are there specific topics that make it meaningful? In the views of somebody who emotes a lot (but under the surface)?

An INFP can talk about your dreams, inspirations, thoughts about the structure of the universe, help root out the cause of your self-sabatoge of your business plans being directly related to your issues with annoying your mother. They can get really deep and psychological, and they don't judge people so much.

However, this is run of the mill for them. Analyzing someones motivations isn't necessarily a romantic activity.

[BitsAndBytes]

Analyzing someones motivations isn't necessarily a romantic activity.

But it is for an INTJ! I don't give a damn about other people's motivations...just his. I care enough to try, and KNOW I'm not going to entirely succeed. Isn't that the definition of love for an analyst/scientist/person entirely lacking in people skills?

[Kisai]

Dunno. My definition of love is obedience. But then I'm a terrible person.

[Frag]

Was John Lennon, circa 1965 perceived as an alpha male? Laurence Olivier or Bob Dylan in '66? Brando in the early 50s? Is Sean Penn today?
No.

I, too, thought perhaps he is not an INFP based on the description--possibly too S, maybe even too E.

But one funny thing about INFPs is that...if there are 100 areas of their life, they may only be definitive and assertive within, say, 3 of those areas. But if one or more of those 3 areas is what the public SEES, the perception of them may indeed be of a person who is extremely...dominant.

I recall the two bios of Anthony Hopkins I've read, and while he is a truly gentle and unassuming INFP IRL, when he is working, he is unquestionably The Man.
Since when does being assertive in a single aspect make you an alpha male?
I think for the purposes of this thread the fact SHE is chasing HIM tells us who "the man" is.

I'll say it again - something is inconsistent here.

[Fecal McAngry]

I'd pass him the note. Check yes or no.


Constant demand for verbalization places a strain on any male.
No, it places a strain on [most if not all] INTJ males.

According to the research I'm familiar with, the only statistically significant difference between the genders is on the T/F axis.

Identical MBTI types behave very similarly regardless of gender, according to all "measurable" stuff like communication styles. Cultural baggage does factor in, of course, but in both directions. Some of the most nauseating types I've ever come across in this regard have been gay EFJ men, esp. gay ESFJs.





Fecal McAngry added to this post, 27 minutes and 17 seconds later...

No, it places a strain on [most if not all] INTJ males.

According to the research I'm familiar with, the only statistically significant difference between the genders is on the T/F axis.

Identical MBTI types behave very similarly regardless of gender, according to all "measurable" stuff like communication styles. Cultural baggage does factor in, of course, but in both directions. Some of the most nauseating types I've ever come across in this regard have been gay EFJ men, esp. gay ESFJs.

No.


Since when does being assertive in a single aspect make you an alpha male?
I think for the purposes of this thread the fact SHE is chasing HIM tells us who "the man" is.

I'll say it again - something is inconsistent here.

You certainly may be of the opinion that none of the dudes mentioned were/are ***perceived*** as "alpha males," but of course, others differ, therefore, you are wrong;)

If you have some time, read about Olivier and how he was perceived while he was both head of the National Theatre and resident megastar. A start: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Of course, there is no fixed definition of "alpha male," so it's a bit pointless to argue over whether or not someone IS or IS NOT one.

FWIW:
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.(biology)

"The term "alpha male" is sometimes applied to human beings to refer to a man who is powerful or in a high social position, similar to hegemonic masculinity. It is also used to explain the conduct of several adolescents that compete openly to call more attention, often being hostile and irreverent amongst themselves and towards adults. This is especially true if the adults represent authority. It is sometimes supposed that this conduct originates from the son wanting to be the alpha of his family, group or clan."

In my own experience, the degree to which an INFP dude will be perceived as a dominant type--all other things being equal--depends hugely--much more so than for most others--on the degree to which his interests (the [very few] areas he actually CARES about) = what he does for a living. When those mesh, regardless of his passivity and indifference in most other areas of life, he is likely to be viewed as...whatever it is you think the term means<g>.

[Andwinter]

I'd pass him the note. Check yes or no.


Just speaking in terms of being a man, I haven't met any guy who can't respond to a direct question. It is in our blood. The way to communicate with a man is to go ahead and ask your direct questions, but avoid frequent open-ended questions. Just being direct by itself won't cut the mustard. Women tend to try to extract verbalization from a man by asking open-ended questions. Men see right through this and it doesn't work. When this happens to me, I feel like a woman is fishing or somehow needy, especially when it happens repetitively.

In describing most men cmrain is correct but not for INFP men. If you want to frustrate or annoy an INFP male then demand quick yes/no answers to questions with no time for explanations. INFPs see possibilities and angles quite well and if there is an alternative answer other than yes or no or a modifier or a condition then it is likely that the INFP will see it and his answer will be different than the two choices presented. INFPs seldom see a black and white world but are masters of the varying shades of grey.

I would expect that if he is INFP and faced with a yes/no question and finds that the two answers are unsatisfactory and is trying to get along with you that he will attempt to explain the answer with the qualifiers rather than lie to you by giving you an dishonest yes or no answer. When the INFP sees the answer to be yes or no then it will be short.

As for open-ended questions I do not mind and often enjoy them provided that I am given time to think about them and discuss them. I will provide answers with conditions and qualifiers, and will possibly return to the question later. As I talk I will be weighing and editing my answers. Impatiently constrain the time I have to focus on an answer too much and I will get annoyed or more often resigned. I suspect this is typical of most INFPs.

In short there is nothing wrong with asking for a yes/no answer from an INFP male if you have the patience and perserverence to wait for the answer.

[Frag]

You certainly may be of the opinion that none of the dudes mentioned were/are ***perceived*** as "alpha males," but of course, others differ, therefore, you are wrong;)
I'm wrong because other people have opinions too?
Excellent work there Socrates...

Of course, there is no fixed definition of "alpha male," so it's a bit pointless to argue over whether or not someone IS or IS NOT one.
Its also completely irrelevant.

OP thinks her guy is alpha yet is telling us he is displaying opposite behavior.
This is inconsistent regardless of our personal definitions.

[BitsAndBytes]

OP thinks her guy is alpha yet is telling us he is displaying opposite behavior.
This is inconsistent regardless of our personal definitions.

I'm going to tell you a little secret about women. Shhhhhhh.....

We're not stupid. We know you like us. We can tell because you call us, look at our asses, and buy us drinks.

We can tell when you have deeper feelings, because you stutter, open car doors, invite us to meet your buddies, and try VERY hard to cook a nice meal at home.

We let you chase us until WE CATCH YOU. Don't tell anyone I told you. They'll take away my woman card.

He's chasing like any alpha male. I'm simply letting him think it's all his idea (even though I'm 87% sure he knows what I'm doing with all that stupid rotten emotional intelligence he possesses). That has nothing whatsoever to do with MBTI personality type, and everything to do with the fact that I'm female, and he's male, and I LIKE being chased--by him. It's fun, or so I'm discovering. He probably just thinks it's cute that I'm trying.

The NOT-fun part is the fact that like any INTJ, I'm never really sure I'm making the right emotional move. THAT'S where my original post came from. Everybody seems to be getting bogged down in my description of him.

[Frag]

Well that post just has even more contradictions, misconceptions, and mostly false stereotypes. Have fun with your thread though...

[Fecal McAngry]

I'm wrong because other people have opinions too?
Excellent work there Socrates...


My original quote was regarding whether or not INFPs could be _perceived_ as alpha males. Indeed, they certainly can be. To argue whether or not INFPs "can be" or "are" alpha males, is, to my way of thinking, if not meaningless, sort of beside the point. I regard something like MBTI type as a relatively fixed locus based on its own innate identity--one either "is" or "is" not an INFP, INTJ, elephant or amputee. "Alpha male" is context and perception dependent, as it is about SOCIAL HIERARCHY, i.e. how others view you and interact with you. At some times, I may be viewed as a doormat, at other times, I may be viewed as quite the opposite.

If you want to make a generalized statement, such as "ETJs are far more likely to be regarded as alpha males than are ITJs, who in turn are far more likely to be regarded as alpha males than IFPs" I'd agree with you on that. In fact, I do agree with an earlier statement of yours along those lines...

I am not sure if we have an actual difference of opinion here.





Fecal McAngry added to this post, 8 minutes and 20 seconds later...



The NOT-fun part is the fact that like any INTJ, I'm never really sure I'm making the right emotional move. THAT'S where my original post came from. Everybody seems to be getting bogged down in my description of him.
I apologize for getting sidetracked into a pissing contest.

My sincere advice is to do something very difficult for INTJ women re: relationships (in my experience). Take it slow. Stay in reconnaissance mode for a longer time than your innate impatience desires. Become comfortable with the unknown. Trust that in time, you will have a better take on the quality of your relationship. Truthfully, he may get a read on the situation and act on it definitively before you do, and that may help you clarify your own inner murk;)

[ElstonGunn]

My sincere advice is to do something very difficult for INTJ women re: relationships (in my experience). Take it slow. Stay in reconnaissance mode for a longer time than your innate impatience desires. Become comfortable with the unknown. Trust that in time, you will have a better take on the quality of your relationship. Truthfully, he may get a read on the situation and act on it definitively before you do, and that may help you clarify your own inner murk;)

That sounds like it might be good advice to me. Would it help if she tried to give hints that she was interested in the guy? I can't stand them myself, but for all I know, INFPs could like them or use them in part of their analysis of the situation.

If "Reconnaissance mode" already involves giving hints, then I'm being redundant. I assumed it was not showing any outward signs of interest and just passively observing, which can easily be taken as having no interest at all.

[Fecal McAngry]

Would it help if she tried to give hints that she was interested in the guy?
No. Don't TRY to do anything for effect. If the connection is real, it will be self evident. As an acting teacher used to often admonish, "Be INTERESTED, don't try to "BE INTERESTING."

Stanislavsky: “The person you are is a thousand times more interesting than the best actor you could ever hope to be.”

I've known at least one INTJ female who viewed the pre-commitment phase as a game in which "victory"=getting the guy in question to fall for her, commit to her, propose to her, etc. And then, after "winning" discovered she'd "won" something she didn't actually want.

[BitsAndBytes]

No. Don't TRY to do anything for effect. If the connection is real, it will be self evident. As an acting teacher used to often admonish, "Be INTERESTED, don't try to "BE INTERESTING."

Stanislavsky: “The person you are is a thousand times more interesting than the best actor you could ever hope to be.”

I've known at least one INTJ female who viewed the pre-commitment phase as a game in which "victory"=getting the guy in question to fall for her, commit to her, propose to her, etc. And then, after "winning" discovered she'd "won" something she didn't actually want.

One thing I've noticed about INFP males is that they seem to be VERY deep. So deep, in fact, that I can barely grasp what's going on in their heads--or perchance the word I'm looking for is hearts. Thoughts I can grasp with no difficulty, feelings are a bit more challenging.

I tend to greatly enjoy wordplay, geek jokes, flirting, puns, and lighthearted banter...with HIM, not just anyone, because that would be exhausting and entirely too much like having a social life. It's sometimes hard to see that playfulness in someone so...soulful? Calm? Deep like the Marianas Trench?

He flirts back, but only VERY occasionally, and it's always adorable for being so unexpected. Is his extremely understated style of expressing desire and attraction for me common?

[wotsamattaU]

I tend to greatly enjoy wordplay, geek jokes, flirting, puns, and lighthearted banter...with HIM, not just anyone <snip> It's sometimes hard to see that playfulness in someone so...soulful? Calm? Deep like the Marianas Trench?

THAT - keep doing that. Engaging his playful side can be very bonding. People who enjoy word play are too few and far between.

His flirting with you in an understated fashion is very INFP. The use of metaphors is also very big. He may be saying something without actually (bluntly) saying it. Review your conversations and his actions and see if they could be read in a different light.

If he is a romantic, he may prefer thoughtfulness over crudeness. He knows you have a frank speaking manner, which he will find amusing. Temper that at times by displaying a side of you which cares. How you treat others will also be taken into account.

[curiousjane]

...they are always analyzing you for evidence of emotional truth, perhaps in the same way that INTJs always go off looking for objective truth.
Well put.

A difficulty of the INTJ/INFP is that both are introverts and so communication can be a challenge.
Unfortunately, yes. I have noticed this in a minor way between my boyfriend and I. We both live inside our heads, so if we're not actively discussing a topic (say, our jobs or lack thereof, or plans for our businesses in the future), we tend to drift into thought or just relax and not think at all and so we don't talk, either. We can ride in the car silently, sit on the couch cuddling quietly, and even walk around in a store or go to dinner without a lot of constant communication. We don't shy away from stuff, we just aren't drawing each other out all the time like would happen if either of us was with a more extroverted partner.

I have a harder time expressing myself than he does. He is very, very direct. I am direct, but I have to have the nerve to really voice my mind. And when I feel something VERY strongly, and I'm not behind the safety of a computer monitor, typing my thoughts out in a way that makes sense, I have a very hard time expressing exactly how I feel. YET I feel quite comfortable telling him I don't know what to say, and asking him to be patient (he always is).

I'm having a horrible time figuring out how to let him chase me...
Oh, that's easy. Just sit on your hands and let him come up with the ideas. If you want to get the ball rolling, be easygoing and suggest something, but ask for his input and let him make the final decision. Unfortunately for you, you're interested in an INFP ... who may well prefer that you, the J in the relationship, make the final call.


I'm so used to being direct, informing people of precisely what I want and require, and what I'm willing to give in order to get it.
And what's wrong with that? Although ... the "what I'm willing to give in order to get it" part is remarkably unromantic if it's treated like a business transaction.

I'll give you 10 chickens and slide rule in exchange for your affection and a great evening. Thank you. Please call again.


I have a lot to offer him ...
A little cocky, are you? :p


I feel like he's waiting for me to become the typical, "clingy", overly gushy female that he's always known.
Maybe he's just waiting for you to let him be romantic. And hoping you'll be appreciative of his efforts. And reciprocate in a meaningful way.


Unfortunately, he wants that deep, profound, idealistic love that I want also...it's just that declarations of undying love came a lot easier to those toxic women he dated before me.
Okay, please see my previous statement about how I have a hard time expressing myself! It's not necessarily an INFP thing to be gushy or desire gush.

If I know a person loves me, truly and deeply, I don't need gushy affirmations; although heartfelt words spoken in truth are like gold.


Generally, I'd rather cut off an unimportant body part than express what I'm feeling in my heart for him. I'd really rather not get gushy, but I'm trying.
Which would you prefer to go first? Get ready to lose an arm, a leg, an ear ... you have to express yourself sometime.


I think that his statement about not wishing to hurt me takes away some of my agency in this situation. After all, if I hadn't decided that his personality, characteristics, and lifestyle were compatible with mine, I wouldn't have taken the chance on getting hurt anyway--and it's MY choice to make, not his. I'd just like him to tell me what he thinks; I can't read him, and I've told him that on MANY occasions.
Okay, tough love:

#1: The last time a guy told me he didn't want to hurt me, it was because he liked me, but didn't really know what to do. He was wishy washy and, while perfectly happy to talk for hours at a time on the phone on occasion (when it suited him and his time), and even introduced me to his friends and some family. He just didn't feel any urgency about dating me. So we went on a few dates and talked long-distance (him Texas, me Tennessee) and it all stretched out for 10 months ... until he realized, um, this isn't being fair to her ...

YEAH.

#2: You're right. It's your choice to be interested in him, and he needs to get over his worries about it if he really cares about you and just let it happen. Cross bridges when you get to them, not lightyears in advance.

#3: Are you what he wants?



So, here are my questions:

(1) He's introduced me to his family and friends and I've spent time with them, but I'm not quite at GF status yet...at least if I am, no one has informed me of that fact. He's integrating me into his life every chance he gets, but still says he's unsure. Is he? Or is he just afraid of getting hurt again?
You're 33? And he's the same age range?

Either he's just assuming you know that he considers it a relationship, or he's keeping his options open and enjoying all the benefits of a relationship without the commitment.


(2) He needs to pursue me; I know it. What would be some good strategies for allowing him to do so?
Slow down. Don't set up all the dates. Appreciate his efforts. Let him lead. If he has an idea, don't shoot it down.

None of this means be a doormat or never contribute to the dating process, but let him enjoy the chase if that's what you think he wants!


(3) He's in San Diego, I'm in LA. The distance is about 2:20 hrs driving. He's worried about a long distance relationship, though he thinks we have potential. I worry about our potential, but if I decide he's the man for me, I won't let any number of miles get in the way. Is this a recipe for disaster?
Nope. Not at all. My boyfriend and I are 2 hours apart. We see each other every weekend, and some week nights (meeting somewhere in the middle) because it's important enough to us both to do so.

If he's the forgetful type, though, I'd worry. Remember Guy #1 I mentioned earlier? Yeah ... he only called, emailed, etc. if it was convenient for him. He enjoyed our conversations, but didn't really go very far out of his way to meet up on a regular basis, even though he knew I had friends who lived halfway that I could stay with if we wanted to meet more often.


(4) He perpetually expresses affection for me physically, even in front of his friends and family.
Okay ... THIS says you're his girlfriend to me. But only if he is romantically affectioniate (kisses, etc.) and isn't with anyone else.


I try to respond, but his social network is quite touchy-feely. It freaks me out when they want to hug me all the time. I'm having a horrible time trying not to scream "QUIT TOUCHING ME", even though I know it wouldn't be even remotely appropriate. I like it when HE touches me, not when EVERYONE ELSE does. How do I deal?
Make a joke out of it. "Wooooahhh, personal bubble!" Exaggerate the space needed.


(5) I tell him the truth when he asks questions, sometimes in exhaustive detail. He also tells me the truth when I ask him stuff about himself, but he doesn't really open up. He's the classic strong, silent type, and he finds it easier to express himself through touch and emotion, not through verbalization.
I guess I'm the strong, silent type then!!!! I do the same thing.

Maybe you should write back and forth. Sometime writing helps. I know I certainly can express myself better on this forum than I can if I'm trying to express how I love someone.


As a result, I am afraid that he has tried to communicate with me through physicality as opposed to verbally...and that I've completely missed the message! At what point does my constant demand for verbalization place strain on an INFP male?
I don't know. I'm not a male. But I have never heard an INFP complain somebody wanted to talk to them and understand them completely. We're a pretty misunderstood bunch. We love it when you're into us and what we like!


(6) I know that introducing me to his friends and family is part of his integration method, and so I go to the family functions I'm invited to. Still, this is costly and exhausting for me...being an INTJ around 100 extroverted people for 10 hours at a time--that I have to be NICE to!! He's met my friends and family, too. To me, this is profoundly meaningful. Is it to him? Or does it simply cost him nothing to integrate another person into his life?
Nonsense, nobody brings friends home to the family if they are going to simply cast them aside. I couldn't say his level of romantic attachment, but certainly you are meaningful to him.

As for the hours of extended contact draining you ... you like being honest ... tell him when you need a little space and down time. BUT be willing to sacrfice that preference for the sake of the relationship. You don't just date a guy. Eventually, given enough time and commitment, you end up dating his family as well. Especially if marriage is in your future at all.


Thank you, all.
You're welcome. I hope this helps in some small way.

How do I tell when he's made his mind up? For an INFP, is it even a decisionmaking process as I would understand it?
Ohhhhhh, baby. Good luck with this one!

I can assure you, in the quest to find the truth and the True Self and How The True Self is feeling ... even WE do not know when we've made our mind up. Sometimes we need other people to stop the decision making process for us. It's not that we can't make up our minds. We can. Provided we know which set of data is the most important. If we don't ...

for instance ... for him ... if we proceed, will I hurt her? ... versus ... but I'm attracted to her ...

Yeah. It's gonna take awhile. And it's not really hot and cold, it is just a CONSTANT re-evaluation of the present facts and issues. We really, really, really want to make the right decision. And every time you throw new data into the mix, it has to start all over again. Sorry.

The problem is that even though I understand this intellectually, I don't really know how to "act as if". I'm blunt and tactless, which means I'm more likely to give him a note saying "Do you like me? Check YES or NO."
Sheesh. Every time I think I've exhausted my advise, some new variable shows up in this conversation!

If he likes you, he likes your bluntness. I mean, one of the most romantic things my guy ever did was outright tell me his goal for the year was to basically knock me off my feet (so to speak) and pursue me. Trust me. I had butterflies.

i know your situation is different, since he's the INFP and you're the INTJ, but I think by now he knows how you operate.

Define "deep, meaningful conversation". My idea of a meaningful conversation involves the intersection of physics and politics. Are there specific topics that make it meaningful? In the views of somebody who emotes a lot (but under the surface)?

Holy Cow. Here we go again.

First off stop assuming that emotions and the ability to emote are inherently sugar-coated, weepy, touchy-feely, and any other negative "hyper" connotation.

I apologize that this is coming across harshly, but just as you feel he isn't giving you enough credit for deciding he was right for you, you're not giving him enough credit for being in control of those emotions.

Think of it this way: INFPs go through life making value judgments. By virtue of the fact that you're dating, he has determined you are worth of this and he would like to be around you more. He values you. He values your friendship. He values your affection. He values your goals, etc., etc.

Second of all, discussing the intersection of physics and politics can be quite interesting. However, this is hardly "deep discussion" of the relational variety. That would be more along the lines of:

- What are your goals?
- What difficulties are you facing at work?
- How do you think the new political edicts in _____ and _____ will affect us in our daily life?

Spirited discussions on any topic are always welcome to introverted thinkers. However, if you want to increase intimacy, you're going to need to eventually get a feel for where he's going in life, where you're going, and if you think you're going to end up going there together. Once that is known, you'll have to discuss HOW.