heartbroken... a very unfamiliar feeling

[atreyu]

I have recently broke up with my boyfriend. Whom I have been with for over 8 years. We were serious about each other and we had been happy most of the time. I am a very definite INTJ and he's something else (ISFP? ESTJ? I never really figured that out but he's a very different breed)

It all started 2 months ago after his trip back to his home town by himself. Ever since then he had been unhappy. I tried talking to him but he doesn't even know what's going on. He said he feel like he's having some sort of mid-life crisis (granted we are only in our late 20s).
He mentioned a few times that he might want to move back there one day. I didn't give that too much thoughts at that point. I figure if we are really serious with each other I would consider moving there with him one day. He told me I am not giving (or showing) him enough care. I know that is probably a real issue for me. I started learning how to make real food (I really don't survive that well in the kitchen) and would cook him dinner after work. I cut down the amount of time I spent on some of my hobbies to spend more time with him. Still he wasn't happy. He said it wasn't my true nature to know how to care for other person and that it's meaningless if he has to ask for it.

We had been planning a trip to visit some of our friends in another state. The night before we leave he suddenly told me he won't be going. His reason is that his parents ask him not to go because of the recent swine flu outbreak (and no we are not going to Mexico). At that point I was simply outraged. I know he's sort of a mommy's boy but this is just too much. So while I was gone for the trip alone, he moved out from our apartment saying it was for the best.

I spoke with him a few times after that and he said he needs time to figure things out. He said too much things going on his head and he doesn't expect me to be patient with him.

I was so sad. There are days that I would cry. There are days that I just feel numb. Sometimes I want to talk to him, sometimes I just want him out of my head. I don't think he understands how much pain he's putting me through...or he simply doesn't care.

I know I love this guy and I would do anything to make things work. If I try hard enough we could probably get back together. At this point I just don't want to do anything. No more planning, no more thinking. I just want to be by myself.

Maybe INTJ girl like me are not really good girlfriend material? Someone please tell me I am wrong.

I am not sure why I started this thread. I guess I just feel like getting something out of my chest.

[Zsych]

I am sorry you are in this situation. I'd say I'm very independent myself, not fully willing to commit emotionally to a relationship. Perhaps your boyfriend feels something like that in you. Or perhaps even if you love him, you keep some level of distance.

I think we're good people. I think not everyone understands our good will towards them because we may not express it how they expect us to. If you can go out on a date of sorts with him, perhaps you can ask him how he would like you two to be together, what kind of behaviors he would be happier seeing. What he thinks has been lost in your relationship. What would make him feel like your relationship was going well.

.. and then see what you can do. Painful though it might be and where you may not feel like acting, I wouldn't give up on something I really care about, without some level of effort. The long term loss could be worse than the short term effort. You could also try counseling.

I hope you do well.

[dandylion]

He told me I am not giving (or showing) him enough care. I know that is probably a real issue for me. I started learning how to make real food (I really don't survive that well in the kitchen) and would cook him dinner after work. I cut down the amount of time I spent on some of my hobbies to spend more time with him. Still he wasn't happy. He said it wasn't my true nature to know how to care for other person and that it's meaningless if he has to ask for it.


Now that is just silly stuff. Obviously if you try to go out of your way and do things that don't come "naturally" to you, it means you care because you want to do it to make him happy. What kind of person goes through that kind of trouble to do something for someone they don't care about?

Don't be sad. It's his issues that need to be worked out, and he needs a little time to figure things out and clear his head a little, so there's not much you can do there (and no point in trying, either). But you can let him know you'll be waiting for him until he's ready... if you're willing to wait.

[Shoeless]

Your boyfriend has been looking for ways to get out of the relationship, to get out and appear to be justified in leaving the relationship while making you look bad. I've done this before, and I'm not proud of it, so I'll highlight some telltale signs.

STILL he wasn't happy. He said it wasn't my true nature to know how to care for other person and that it's MEANINGLESS if he has to ask for it.

In caps and bold for emphasis. This is the build-up. He's not just venting his frustrations. At this point, he has probably decided that he wanted to end his relationship with you, but he wanted to do it and appear to be the good guy. Hence, he picks a fault of yours and makes it into a deal-breaker. Both of you have been together for 8 years, if this fault of yours is really such a deal-breaker for him, he would have broken up with you within the first year.

Even if you do change yourself till it's become second nature to you to show and give concern to him, he'll still find some reason on why he still isn't happy. And let's say you do become the perfect woman (personality-wise), he'll still come up with some dodgy excuse like "I don't think this will work...because you won't look good beside me in our wedding photographs."

So while I was gone for the trip alone, he moved out from our apartment saying it was for the best.

This is the climax. The swine flu outbreak must have thrilled him to no end. I'm quite skeptical that he chose not to go with you because his parents told him not to. The way I see it, he probably knew that you would go for the trip, no matter what. The swine flu became an excuse for him not to go, and what better way to make him appear like the good guy by bringing in his parents?

If you insist that he accompanies you for the trip, you appear to be the bad person as you didn't take into considerations the feelings of his parents. If you go alone, you still appear to be a bad person because you value your friends over staying with him. If you choose not to go, he'll try to start an argument along the lines of "You know what? You can go visit your friends since they're so important. You don't have to stay, just go." It's a lose-lose-lose situation, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

He said too much things going on his head and he doesn't expect me to be patient with him.

Again, he's trying to make you appear like a bad person while he tries to be the good guy. That statement just screams of "it's your fault, not mine!" He's tempting you to blow your top, because if you do, it makes him look like a saint and makes you look like a bitch.

Get over him, he's clearly over you...has been for quite some time.


Maybe INTJ girl like me are not really good girlfriend material? Someone please tell me I am wrong.

You are wrong, and I'm not saying that just to make you feel good. I will highlight certain examples.

I figure if we are really serious with each other I would consider moving there with him one day.

I started learning how to make real food (I really don't survive that well in the kitchen) and would cook him dinner after work. I cut down the amount of time I spent on some of my hobbies to spend more time with him.

I know I love this guy and I would do anything to make things work.

You have really gone out of your way and stepped out of your comfort zones to make things work. You picked up cooking even though you suck in the kitchen so that you could make him dinner. You made time for him while cutting down on the things you like to do. What more does he want? That you wash his feet with warm water when he gets home?

Stop beating yourself up over him. He doesn't appreciate the things that you've done for him.

[Pcell]

I went through a very similar situation with an ex of about 6 years. I also learned cooking, gave up hobbies, and became a nice "homey" girl. It was never enough for him and he ended up cheating on me, saying I "neglected" and didn't care for him. He always made it look like everything was my fault all along.

Trust me, you are way better off being single than with someone like that. Enjoy your independence and being who you are. It's OK to make some adjustments for the person you love, but to change the way you enjoy life because he simply requests it is simply selfish and so characteristic of the spoiled mommy's boy.

This comes from personal experience, so..yeah. Doesn't apply to everyone.

Also, as an aside. I wouldn't be surprised if he cheated on you when he went home. Men (and women of course) change the way they treat you when they're pining for someone else. They end up resenting the fact they're with you and act crummy no matter how you try to please them.

[Arminius]

I doubt you are a bad girlfriend. Sounds to me like this guy expects a psychic girlfriend who has nothing better to do than to wait on him. That strikes me as a touch unreasonable in the expectation department. The swine flu thing is a bit wussy too. It is not like this is the bubonic plague, just the media blowing something a billion times out of proportion.

As to the quality of INTJ girlfriends in general, I can't say. I haven't dated any INTJ girls. But there seem to be a sizeable number of females on this forum, many of whom are married or otherwise in a relationship. So I doubt there is anything inherently wrong with INTJ girlfriends or with you. Just looks to me like a case of unreasonable expectations on his part.

I should give you the warning that I'm probably not the best source of relationship advice, so caveat emptor. I'd recommend pulling yourself together. It is probably easier said than done. But just try to tune out emotionally and evaluate your situation. Once you are in control of your emotions, ask yourself if you can live without him and move on. It may not seem like it now, but I believe you can. Mentally prepare yourself for the relationship ending permanently, since that is likely scenario. You can try to restart the relationship, but don't crawl to him. If you have to warp your personality too much just to maintain equilibrium, it is probably not a good match.

[Frag]

I'm somewhat inclined to agree with shoeless. And I'll add:

Maybe INTJ girl like me are not really good girlfriend material?
Definitely false. Maybe you'll do better with another NT.

As I was saying to my INTJ last night - one of the awesome things is I don't have to (read: its not her thing anyway) go buy flowers and crap - I just bring tea when I'm told to and it all works.

[Zsych]

The problem with emotional satisfaction is that its often irrational, and you want what you want to feel satisfied.

Atreyu is close to her boyfriend, and would be happier with him back. Whether or not he's the best choice is irrelevant to her happiness at the moment. I wouldn't say that relationships are definitely well or definitely over. The basic question is: What does her boyfriend need to feel happy, while remaining with her so that Atreyu is also happy.

The second question would be whether it could still be something that would keep them happy in the long term. If possible, I think counseling is really a good idea.

[Lil]

Atreyu, I'm sorry you are hurting like this. Breaking up, when the OP initiates it, is the worst.

Frankly, he sounds very immature to me, and unworthy of you. Now that he is out of your life, there is room for another man who will adore you just as you are. For someone so young, you've been out of circulation for a LONG time. I predict that a year from now (or sooner) you will decide that this guy breaking up with you is the best thing that ever happened.

I'm decades older than you... but for six years I was an a relationship that needed to end, but I couldn't bring myself to end it. In the fall of 2007, I fell and broke my ankle. Even while I was lying on the ground trying to attract the attention of someone to help me, I had the distinct feeling "this could be just what I need." During the couple of months it took me to recover from surgery, it became clear to me that I was not a priority in my bf's life. It became clearer and clearer that I needed to end it. When I finally told him, "This isn't working out," he basically agreed with me. Two days later I met the man I'm currently in love with. If I had met this man while I was still with my bf, that would have been a big problem.

There is a Great Love waiting for you. Now you have room for him in your life.

[Frag]

Atreyu is close to her boyfriend, and would be happier with him back. Whether or not he's the best choice is irrelevant to her happiness at the moment.
Considering the way he's been working to deconstruct it, I'm going to have to disagree. If thats the case, he has gone and just "tweaking" things to make him happy won't fix that.

[Zsych]

Yes, the essential question is, "What would make him happy with her also being happy?"

Let's not just jump to burning our boats here. She also hasn't emotionally moved on, so I'm not sure future loves are what she's thinking about yet.
... People are too willing to give up on relationships of late.

@Atreyu: Apart from whatever you might be considering to try to recover the situation, you may also want to prepare yourself for the possibility of having to move on if your effort doesn't pay off. I'm of the opinion that relationships that last years have something underneath them, so you may want to focus on what made it work for as long as it did, and what has changed.
... It might not be recoverable, but it's also possible that it is. I don't think you should be surrendering. You should look at your choices, and move forward.

[atreyu]

Thank you for all the replies. It's refreshing to hear other people's thought and see things in different perspectives. Thanks for the kind words and the support.

Zsych, I too won't give up easily on something I want. I do feel like there's something I can do to make things better. At the same time, there's something that can't be done by myself. At this point I am simply not sure if I want it bad enough.

I do agree with Shoeless that he probably made up his mind to leave long before our trip. I just don't understand what could possibly changed so much in such a short period of time.
We had been very happy most of the time in last 8 years. We were very devoted to each other and took our relationship seriously. I do have to agree he is immature in some way. I am the only girlfriend he ever had. Maybe he has doubts whether I am the right person for him. If he really cheated on me when he was home, it would be an easy decision for me. Not sure if I will ever find out.

[Zsych]

I'd suggest asking him on the phone... If he's out of your house, he may be more willing to tell the truth (and you would find out later anyway, thus giving him less reason to lie).
I wouldn't be too obvious about it though, in case he hasn't. I'm not sure I would like to be suspected of something like that if I hadn't done it.

If possible, I would suggest having him come out with you casually, to a place where you have good memories.

[MaleVolentworld]

You need to find out what it is that is the problem.

Many people break up and get back together again so I wouldn't say that it's over. If you've been with him for 8 years then you deserve to know the truth.

Good luck.

[Cygnus]

Thank you for all the replies. It's refreshing to hear other people's thought and see things in different perspectives. Thanks for the kind words and the support.

Zsych, I too won't give up easily on something I want. I do feel like there's something I can do to make things better. At the same time, there's something that can't be done by myself. At this point I am simply not sure if I want it bad enough.

I do agree with Shoeless that he probably made up his mind to leave long before our trip. I just don't understand what could possibly changed so much in such a short period of time.
We had been very happy most of the time in last 8 years. We were very devoted to each other and took our relationship seriously. I do have to agree he is immature in some way. I am the only girlfriend he ever had. Maybe he has doubts whether I am the right person for him. If he really cheated on me when he was home, it would be an easy decision for me. Not sure if I will ever find out.


Things often come to a head suddenly, but the unlying currents have been building, unseen for a long time. I do not feel anything happen so suddenly, likely he had been meaning to do it for sometime and finally acted.

While I think it admirable trying to change to keep the relationship intact, I think he has no clue what he wants and likely would not be satisfied with any change. My heart goes out to you, I wish I could say something to help. I can say you have everything needed to be in a happy and lasting relationship. You are also a better person that I. If a woman broke my heart as this guy did to you, I would not give her a second chance, since my faith and trust in her would be gone. If we both tried hard to make it work and we both knew it was not going to happen, then I have would complete respect for her and could probably still be friends...in time.

[Vagrant]

Thank you for all the replies. It's refreshing to hear other people's thought and see things in different perspectives. Thanks for the kind words and the support.

Zsych, I too won't give up easily on something I want. I do feel like there's something I can do to make things better. At the same time, there's something that can't be done by myself. At this point I am simply not sure if I want it bad enough.

I do agree with Shoeless that he probably made up his mind to leave long before our trip. I just don't understand what could possibly changed so much in such a short period of time.
We had been very happy most of the time in last 8 years. We were very devoted to each other and took our relationship seriously. I do have to agree he is immature in some way. I am the only girlfriend he ever had. Maybe he has doubts whether I am the right person for him. If he really cheated on me when he was home, it would be an easy decision for me. Not sure if I will ever find out.

I'm gonna agree with Shoeless as well.

As was mentioned before -- a lot of undercurrents build up completely unseen. Remember that everybody is an individual, and nobody relates everything they experience or feel. Perhaps he had some thoughts or concerns in his mind, or even his subconscious, and his little trip brought said thoughts to the forefront very strongly.

Regardless, the stuff he's doing is bullshit that my ex pulled on me -- wanting to get out of a relationship but not having the balls to say it straightforward.

[atreyu]

I have asked myself many times if I could ever trust this guy again even if we do get back together. It would be difficult. But there's always uncertainties in any relationship. Promises or marriages guarantee nothing.

I do know if I can't look past what happened, I would not want to be with him again.

I am going to see him later today. Hopefully I will find some of the answers.

[PortInStorm]

Another vote for Shoeless' answer. I've been here, many times with the same person. It's manipulative and excrutiating for you, the truth is twisted so much that you don't know what to believe.

I'd suggest pretending that you're deaf, and only look at his actions. Look at his eyes when he looks at you, objectively look at what he is (or isn't) doing for/to you, his pattern of treating you. Don't think of or even listen to what he says, what he's promising, his reasons. ONLY LOOK AT HIS ACTIONS. People will find a way to get or do what they truly want- if they really want something, they won't require others' prodding.

I get that you may have to put your heart out there again and again til you well and truly know it never could have worked, til you are satisfied that you have done everything you could and come to the realization that the sticking point was him.

My only caution: don't step away from the relationship thinking "I'm waiting for the 'Big Love'" or you may head straight into another relationship without finding out that it's YOU. YOU are the only one that you can ultimately rely on. if you already know this, cool, but if you don't, you may go ahead and bond/trust another partner thinking "This is going to be the one that I can count on" and get hurt again.

[reb]

atreyu,

being aged, i have seen all sorts of relationships-mine, and others.

you might be correct-perhaps 'not really good girlfriend material'. i, frankly, am not very good boyfriend material. however, you are as good 'human material' as anyone else-probably better, since you can share your feelings in public like this.

the definition of a 'relationship' you were working under is not the only definition. find a definition that works for you; be happy within yourself and by yourself. in that way, if you have 'a relationship', then life is fine; if you do not, then life is fine. also, btw, having seen many 'modern' relationships....do NOT 'mix money'. that and children are the two things that seem to tear people apart when they get 'at odds' with each other. free advice, worth what ya paid for it.

best of luck to you.

[atreyu]

Thanks for the advice PortInStorm. That's why I choose to see him in person and not just talk over the phone. I also think I can see a lot more from his expressions and actions.

reb - If this does come to an end, I think I will just be by myself for a while and enjoy my own company. INTJs probably don't have too much trouble with that. I think we all love ourselves a lot to begin with. I do agree with you. I don't think relationship is a must have. Getting married, starting a family, having kids..etc are not my idea of the only way one should live their life either.

[Josephine1012]

To the OP,

I'm' so sorry to hear you're in this situation. I really think he is being very cruel with you. The most difficult break up is the one you don't understand. He has made it all a huge mystery which is probably breaking your heart because you must be poring over what you have done wrong, what you could have done a little different and maybe what to do in order to salvage the relationship. I know the pain, it's not easy.

I think the main problem is communication and that isn't something you can fix after 8 years. It takes a very strong and honest person to take responsibility and tell the truth when they are breaking up with you. It sounds like you're ex spent some time being unhappy (which possibly has nothing to do with you), instead of taking responsibility for his unhappiness he chose to blame you for not giving him something he needs.

You are who you are, and you are either compatible with someone or you're not. So if that is indeed the case then it means that you're not right for each other. What you described though is such a cowardly behavior. It makes me think he doesn't take responsibility for anything, life happens TO him, and nothing is ever his fault.

If you have compassion for the other person and you truly care for them, when things end you have the decency to tell them something concrete so it's a clean break. He sounds very wishy washy on the subject, meaning he would like to break up but he would also like to leave the door ajar to come back. This naturally happens at the expense of your feelings.

I don't know if it's the right time, but you're probably better off. It's miserable to watch a relationship end, but at the same time you have the opportunity to find someone who is much better suited to your needs.

he sounds a lot like my best friend's ex (she is INTJ) and he was ISFP. In my friend's case I really can not stand the guy even though theoretically he isn't a bad person, he had so little emotional strength that she always ended up carrying the burden of being strong for two.

[Brion]

If I try hard enough we could probably get back together

NO, toughest lesson ever.. When want you want depends on other people You cannot WILL it, or control what happens... He needs to WANT to come back... Go out with another guy and forget about him... someone like an ENFP.. gee I wish i knew where to find one.

[Josephine1012]

If I try hard enough we could probably get back together

NO, toughest lesson ever.. When want you want depends on other people You cannot WILL it, or control what happens... He needs to WANT to come back... Go out with another guy and forget about him... someone like an ENFP.. gee I wish i knew where to find one.

We totally rock! Plus my INTJ friend traded her ISFP for a shiny new ENFP and hasn't looked back :p

[Jenava]

Since all this came about when he went home, I suspect perhaps something happened there that he isn't being up front about with you. Just a total guess, but I get the feeling perhaps he has cheated on you or become interested in someone else. Have you questioned him along these lines?

Once you come up for air emotionally you will see clearly that you did everything right and he just wanted out. In a healthy relationship giving up things to make the other person happy would be the ultimate way of saying that you love the other person - how on EARTH could that not be enough. That's total BS.

I think maybe there are other factors outside of your control that he isn't letting you in on.

[music221]

As hard as it might be, the time to move on is now. You have tried with this guy and apparently he's over the relationship. His actions speak volumes about his character and overall you would have become miserable trying to appease him. So take your mind away from all of this, go out with some friends and cut loose. Maybe you'll find what you're really looking for while you're out and about.

[SeaCzar]

I agree with Shoeless here. Not going on a trip because of the swine flu? That's just pure unadulterated bullshit. His moving out was planned.

Maybe INTJ girl like me are not really good girlfriend material? Someone please tell me I am wrong.

This is bullshit too. The guy who left you lacked the balls, and just plain decency, to tell you the truth, instead sneaking out of the house while you were away. At best he is a coward. The way I see it, this has nothing to do with you. I know how hard it is to realize this now, because you are (justifiably) hurting, but look at it this way: you are rid of a worthless asshole.

I wish you the best. Good luck.

[atreyu]

So I met him yesterday.

He said it wasn't his intention to just break up with me. He just needed some time alone and he still want to care for me.

I asked if he had cheated or seeing someone else. He denied. I am tell from his expressions that he is not lying.

I asked if I am really the one making him unhappy. He said he doesn't know and he is just very confused at this moment. He just wanted to focus on work and not think about anything else. Then he said he knows he enjoy being with me.

Like many of you had mentioned, he really doesn't know what would make him happy. I doubt he understands what I have been through. Thinking day and night hoping to find an answer, trying to fix things that aren't even the cause.

[PortInStorm]

Yep, sounds all too familiar. What a horrible place to put you in, because he refuses to close the door, yet refuses to get all in. He says he does not expect you to wait for him and be in limbo. That's true- he probably hopes you will get frustrated and cut it off so that he can say YOU broke it up. Yet you want to give it every chance so that you have peace of mind that you did everything you could. So you wait... and wait... and wait...

Keep in mind what he is doing to your emotions, and that he is putting himself above you consistently, only seeking his own good. What you're going through is not making an impact on him, and he is not remorseful (enough, or he would act to either cut it off himself or get back in). It is incredibly hard, but that doesn't sound like a loving person to spend your life with.

"Protect your heart above all things, for it is the wellspring of life"

[Allie]

Sorry you are in this situation atreyu.

Please re-evaluate whether you truly see something in him, worth saving the relationship for, and not that you are used to having him, or what you wished it would be. Sometimes, it may be that you need time to get used to the idea, after 8 years with someone. That is a long time. Even some marriages do not last that long.

I think I can see your dilemma though. If the relationship had been truly bad, or that there was a good reason for the breakup, then it would be understandable for both parties to part when the time comes. But since both of you had been committed and quite happy together for a long time, it is difficult to just let go without trying, so that you do not have any regrets for the things that could have been done...

[atreyu]

I know I am angry right now. Perhaps when my emotions settle down I can see (aka think) clearer. Whether I still want to work things out with him I do not know.

Josephine1012, Brion - I will keep in mind how awesome the ENFPs are. When I return from outerspace, I might try hunting for some.

Off to visit my alien friends....