INTPs extremely difficult to date?

[Oleander]

My boyfriend's the most confusing person I've ever met. He's indecisive to the point of admitting to feeling like "unsuitable boyfriend material". He's also so fickle that I can't rely on his [limited] emotions. Yet aside from this unreliability, he's SO warm, caring, open, and affectionate. He's always full of genuine smiles. He introduces me with pride, forces my hand in his when we're out in public. I've never seen him as happy as when he's with me (but I've also seen him downright miserable just being in the same room). Honestly, considering the latter description I'm sure he sounds like a wonderful boyfriend and you don't know why I would feel conflicted.

But you do understand how these rollercoasters affect a person, right? The closer I get, the further the next push.

We've had some close calls with breaking up due to his indecisiveness. I've never had this happen until now, but about five people have commented on how happy he seems when he's with me. I've also never met someone so similar to myself, only my emotions are my best friends and I readily expose them to others. I just feel that it's the best tool to be had in human relationships.

This weekend, however, he mentionned this strong need to seclude himself in his basement. We're both 22 and for financial reasons both still live at home with our parents, and he has problems with his mom and her boyfriend. He has virtually no friends (though he seems to enjoy it that way,) and he recently dropped out of his college course to go into a different one this Fall (one I'm not even convinced he's completely set on). The only time I've seen his emotions was when he was in the middle of a full-fledged emotional fit and crying, admitting to feeling very depressed and dettached as if he can't feel anything anymore. He's seeing a therapist, and the people who matter most have tried including themselves in the solution but to no avail have the proverbial door shut on them.

I want him badly. I see so much of him in myself and vice versa that the relationship is an asset. I want to be there for him, but how do I even know he wants me in the picture period? We've decided to spend less time together and to make our time together more worthwhile as the stress of it all has lumped us into a routine, something in which a 5 month relationship shouldn't be. I'm willing to handle his baggage because he's absolutely worth it. I just don't know how.

[Vagrant]

One of my good friends at college is an INTP, I'm gonna be rooming with him next year.

One of the difficulties with him is he is fickle, and he doubts himself fairly often. Truth be told, you just gotta be persistent, and he'll eventually get it. Being a P means he constantly questions not only everybody else, but himself.

Just be persistent. :) He'll always doubt himself, but the more you reaffirm him that he's doing right, the more he'll believe it.

(My INTP friend used to think no women would like him... I was persistent in telling him that he was simply trying with the wrong women, and that there women who were interested in him. Lo and behold, a few months later, he starts having good success with women. It's just a matter of being persistent)

[Oleander]

Ya, that's basically the road I've been taking, and I honestly don't find the situation that hard. I just wanna be sure that I'm not gonna get screwed in the end.

It's a combination of his P and current depression. Bad, bad combination.

[Cygnus]

we are ... :D

Nahhh...I don't think so anyway, INTP send signals I can read and relate to, without a required explaination. I will hazard a guess that strong S and J may not intuatively pick up on these signals and require an explaination..an explaination many INTP may not be able to provide :)





Cygnus added to this post, 21 minutes and 34 seconds later...

Ya, that's basically the road I've been taking, and I honestly don't find the situation that hard. I just wanna be sure that I'm not gonna get screwed in the end.

I just keep wondering why, since he seems so happy with me, does he persist on questioning it. Why, if he's unsure of what he'd enjoy doing during his lifetime (as if anything is permanent, as if he doesn't have options,) does he insist on blindly going through with college. Why, if he's been feeling so lonely and unloved, does he shut out his friends and family.

It's a combination of P-ness (haha ... penis. lawl. roflcopter.) and depression. He probably just needs a good kick in the ass.

Proceed with ass-kicking cautiously. He may not require that..and genuinely time alone to sort things out.

[Henry]

I want him badly. I see so much of him in myself and vice versa that the relationship is an asset. I want to be there for him, but how do I even know he wants me in the picture period? We've decided to spend less time together and to make our time together more worthwhile as the stress of it all has lumped us into a routine, something in which a 5 month relationship shouldn't be. I'm willing to handle his baggage because he's absolutely worth it. I just don't know how.

I would ask him. As a rule, talking is important in adult relationships.

[Vagrant]

Ya, that's basically the road I've been taking, and I honestly don't find the situation that hard. I just wanna be sure that I'm not gonna get screwed in the end.

It's a combination of his P and current depression. Bad, bad combination.

If you feel like you're gonna get screwed, just keep talking with him.

I don't think he's gonna screw you over. My INTP friend has done so much for me without me even asking too much -- extremely caring and devoted as a friend. As long as you're there for him, I doubt he'd do anything to harm you. He'd probably be more likely to harm himself.

[Undead Bonzi]

Proceed with ass-kicking cautiously. He may not require that..and genuinely time alone to sort things out.

Quoted for truth. You have to be real careful how you 'help' INTP's. We are very very very touchy about anything we percieve to be forced/coerced/manipulated.

Another thing to remember is in a relationship with INTP's is that we don't/won't ask for help unless we are bleeding to death on the floor. On a related point (and this is the one that other types always stumble on when with INTP's) if we don't ask you to do something for us/help us and you do it anyway...we don't 'owe' you anything in return. It is hard to explain this in way that makes sense. As an example a gf cleans her INTP bf's room up then gets mad when the INTP does not do something in return to pull their fair share. From the INTP's perspective they did not (and would not) ask the gf to clean up, thus it requires no debt. Think of a homeless person running up to your car at a red light and cleans your windshield and then demands money for it, that is how the INTP views such actions. Then general view INTP holds is that they will take care of themselves and others should take care of themselves...we are not in big for the codependency style of relationship.

[Cygnus]

I would ask him. As a rule, talking is important in adult relationships.

And explaining ourselves clearly is something many INTJ and INTP struggle with, even if we know fully well what we are trying to say...and moreso with emotional issues. Supportive is appreciated, but if the conversation and mood becomes confrontational, then it may be counter-productive.

[Oleander]

... we are not in big for the codependency style of relationship.

No one's big on codependency except those that require such a setup. But if I feel completely unnecessary in the big picture, some other guy will grab my attention. Women like to take care of others, not in the sense of coddling them but in bringing that light into their day. If I feel like someone's side hobby and below every other priority in their life, I'll wonder why they even have me around.

As far as I can tell, being that INTP's are emotionally retarded, the only benefit they get from relationships is sex and sporadic company. Am I right?

[Cygnus]

No one's big on codependency except those that require such a setup. But if I feel completely unnecessary in the big picture, some other guy will grab my attention. Women like to take care of others, not in the sense of coddling them but in bringing that light into their day. If I feel like someone's side hobby and below every other priority in their life, I'll wonder why they even have me around.

As far as I can tell, being that INTP's are emotionally retarded, the only benefit they get from relationships is sex and sporadic company. Am I right?

You already know all the answers, then why are you asking questions?

[Undead Bonzi]

Yet aside from this unreliability, he's SO warm, caring, open, and affectionate. He's always full of genuine smiles. He introduces me with pride, forces my hand in his when we're out in public.

As far as I can tell, being that INTP's are emotionally retarded, the only benefit they get from relationships is sex and sporadic company. Am I right?

#1. You statements seem to disagree with one another.
#2. Sweeping statements based on stereotypes FTL.

No one's big on codependency except those that require such a setup. But if I feel completely unnecessary in the big picture, some other guy will grab my attention. Women like to take care of others, not in the sense of coddling them but in bringing that light into their day. If I feel like someone's side hobby and below every other priority in their life, I'll wonder why they even have me around.

By my definition of codependency a majority of the population seems to hold such a condition up as a relationship ideal. All that 'I can't live without you' bs. Even you support this with your statement about needing to be 'necessary in the big picture'. When I talk of codependency I am referring to people who desire to feel and be 'necessary' to their partner rather than 'wanted'. Being 'necessary' creates a condition of entrapment through dependency. Being together because you each are 'wanted' would be an expression of a true relationship because no strings or entrapment are present. Semantics and personal opinion I know...but that's my opinion. Other INTP's can chime in if they think it is just me or if it is an example of how an INTP in general views relationships.

[SShack]

ENTPs and INTPs both strongly trend toward extraverted feeling rather than introverted feeling (in fact, it tends to rank dead last for INTPs among the eight functions).

This can manifest as an odd sort of neurotic struggle where they know how to understand and deal with your feelings better than they can deal with their own. Notice that the positive warmth you describes comes from the way he treats you, particularly around others. The negative issues arise when he's forced to confront what's going on inside himself.

My suspicion of the cycle of what's going on here: 1. He wants to make you happy and enjoys seeing you happy; 2. However, he himself is unhappy and doesn't know how to make himself happy; 3. Because he is unhappy he has no faith in his ability to sustain a relationship with you. How can he make you happy if he's unhappy?; 4. Push you away so that he doesn't make you unhappy; 5. Realize pushing you away has made you unhappy and that you genuinely want to be around him; Return to step one.

He no doubt wants to be as self-sustaining as most NTs want to be so I'm going to hazard a guess that his living situation is at the root of the problem. He probably will not be comfortable in a serious relationship until he gets his life in order. That's how NT priorities tend to work. It's just sometimes a little harder for NTPs to reach that stage with our indecisiveness.

Edited to add, here's how Typelogic describes the way INTP's primary mode of feeling works:

"Feeling tends to be all or none. When present, the INTP's concern for others is intense, albeit naive. In a crisis, this feeling judgment is often silenced by the emergence of Thinking, who rushes in to avert chaos and destruction. In the absence of a clear principle, however, INTPs have been known to defer judgment and to allow decisions about interpersonal matters to be left hanging lest someone be offended or somehow injured. INTPs are at risk of being swept away by the shadow in the form of their own strong emotional impulses. "

I'd say what's going in is a definite manifestation of this struggle.

[Oleander]

You already know all the answers, then why are you asking questions?

My apologies. I don't already know the answers -- just in the middle of a bad period and a mess of confusion in about five different areas of my life, heh.

#1. You statements seem to disagree with one another.
#2. Sweeping statements based on stereotypes FTL.



By my definition of codependency a majority of the population seems to hold such a condition up as a relationship ideal. All that 'I can't live without you' bs. Even you support this with your statement about needing to be 'necessary in the big picture'. When I talk of codependency I am referring to people who desire to feel and be 'necessary' to their partner rather than 'wanted'. Being 'necessary' creates a condition of entrapment through dependency. Being together because you each are 'wanted' would be an expression of a true relationship because no strings or entrapment are present. Semantics and personal opinion I know...but that's my opinion. Other INTP's can chime in if they think it is just me or if it is an example of how an INTP in general views relationships.

I'm not talking about the extreme version of being needed. But I don't wanna be with someone who had a relationship fall in their lap, and despite their busy schedule and other very important priorities, they managed to find time to, you know, sort of enjoy this thing, or whatever. Are you catching my [sarcastic] drift? Being overly independent is never a good thing, unless you can point out how that could possibly make anyone on the receiving end of it happy. But someone who sees it differently will undoubtedly say something like, "Well, if you don't like it, you can leave."

We've somewhat derailed as my boyfriend isn't necessarily that type of person, but I don't understand how some people are so glaringly unfit for monogomy yet continue to seek for the perfect version of it. If you're not cut out for the job, stop applying!

[schwartzie]

But if I feel completely unnecessary in the big picture, some other guy will grab my attention. Women like to take care of others, not in the sense of coddling them but in bringing that light into their day. this is not an attribute of womanhood. maybe it is related to your external focus--your S. I do not not not want to be "needed" by a partner. bleah. I want to be wanted.


As far as I can tell, ... INTP's are emotionally retarded,
quite the contrary... they are emotionally more like angel food cake than, say, double fudge brownies: light, simple, unadulterated, not unpleasantly sweet. They seem more adult than perhaps other types.

the only benefit they get from relationships is sex and sporadic company. Am I right? the companionship of someone who wants to be with you, together with sex, is not exactly a bad thing, hun. what do you want? If its significantly different from this, you probably need to see if you are putting your emotional cart before the horse, and imagining that he is a good fit for you, when he may not be capable of or interested in meeting your needs. He could be a perfectly lovely person, but just not suitable for you....

[Oleander]

... I do not not not want to be "needed" by a partner ... the companionship of someone who wants to be with you, together with sex, is not exactly a bad thing, hun ...

You're just splitting hairs about the being needed/wanted front. I don't mean to say that I wish to fill a void, but rather that I wish to be a pleasant addition to an already put-together individual. But you can feel unnecessary without originally wanting to feel like an actual piece of the puzzle.

I'm not asking for anything more than a simple relationship, but it seems like as soon as things are running smoothly, he forces himself out of the vehicle, shoves a few obstacles in the middle of the road and yells, "Fetch!"

I don't fetch for anyone. I'm either wanted or nothing at all. I don't do fickle.

[Indubitably]

You have to understand that an INTP's sense of self worth is simply not linked to how he or she is perceived by others the way it is for an ISXJ. It sounds like what you are saying is that you need a sign demonstrating his recognition of your significance, and that without it your sense of worth will be compromized. An INTP quite simply has no such requirement, affirmation of worth comes from within, from comprehension, from developing a cohesive understanding of the universe.

You talk about a "roller coaster ride" but for the INTP this is all in your head, he is going to be utterly baffled by the fact that you have attached yourself to his emotional state at all, and If you start to blame him for the fact that you have attached yourself to his emotional state you can be pretty well guaranteed that he will resent you for it. He will be happy to express his desire for you, but it is not going to be transparent to him that the best way for him to do so is by reminding you that you are a priority. For him this is obvious, if you were not a significant part of his life he would be dating someone else, or have no girlfriend at all, and if that were to change he would simply tell you. If he cares for you he is not going to openly insinuate that you in any way need him in order to feel "necessary" because that would be an incredibly insulting and demeaning thing for him to say about you.

Tell him how you want him to express his love for you, explain logically and clearly that this is the most effective means of articulating his feelings, and he will do so without any prodding or motivation from you. That should make your relationship with him much easier, but even so you are going to have to be able to stand on your own emotionally to some degree.

I know you don't think that you are emotionally codependent, but compared to an INTP you are very much so. Try to think of it from his point of view, take it to an extreme where what you are expecting of him would be too much even for you, imagine a man that you needed to attend to 24/7, that you did have to coddle like an infant, that was completely and utterly dependent on you in order to survive and be happy. If this man came to you and told you that he was feeling neglected when you had been expressing your love for him every waking moment you could stand to be around people, how would you feel? If he told you that it was your fault that he didn't feel important unless you told him that he was, and that you owed him more attention simply by virtue of being in a relationship, what would you think?

For an INTP a relationship is built on mutual respect and desire, not need. If your definition is different, if you expect "benefits" beyond mutual respect and desire, you need to talk it out with him in no uncertain terms or you really are in danger of loosing him.

[OnlyFoundLove]

My boyfriend of 3 years is an INTP. Being an ISFP, we're not supposed to be compatible in the least romantically. Yet strangely enough, we're the best of friends. I love him because he's a genius with a dark sense of humor. I have a bit of nerdy background so when I first met him a million years ago, we could talk to each other about nerdy things. I liked that he was willing to have a one-on-one conversation with me despite my general oddness. He was (and still is) an oddball as well.

Right now he's indecisive about his romantic feelings for me. It doesn't help that he's going through a rough patch in his life either, otherwise I think he'd be able to figure it out more easily. He's just not all that good in the "feeling" department. I promise he's not cheating on me or anything like that, ha ha. He's got better morals than that. Funny thing is, since I'm a P as well, I'm not really demanding an answer anytime soon; I'll just wait until he's ready. In the meantime, I'll be there for him when he needs me and vice-versa. He was able to finally open up to me emotionally a couple weeks ago and it's really the only time I've ever seen him like that. He'd bottled up his emotions for so long because he didn't really know what to make of them, probably. He was afraid of telling me anything; in general he's afraid of a lot of things. :/

So yes, I would say that it's hard to date an INTP. But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it. Even if we do split up, I've learned a lot in our relationship together. If you really love someone, don't worry about their type being "incompatible" with yours. Rather, use their type as a tool to improving the relationship and getting to know each other that way. And of course, talking to each other helps as well. Ha ha ha.

[DanteFalling]

That sucks. I'm sorry. My INTP was really decisive when it came to the relationship but horrible to pin down in conversation.

[OnlyFoundLove]

It's OK. He even admits to being a pain and not making my life any easier, but I just tell him that life isn't supposed to be easy. I suppose you could say that I'm just making it hard on myself and in the end I'll just be more heartbroken than it's worth, but I don't think so. No matter what happens, things will work out in the end (if there is one. HAHA).

Yeah, the only thing he's really decisive on right now is his future engineering career. Surprise surprise that an INTP would want to be an engineer, ha ha.

He's super smart, but he really does live in his own head, so he doesn't call me for the heck of it nearly as often as I would like him to. I've pretty much always understood that it's just naturally how he is so I try not to make a big deal out of it, but he should get uncomfortable sometimes; comfort leads to complacency if you're not careful, and I don't want that for him.

[cmrain]

I have made a lot of dating mistakes in my life and I have definitely been indecisive. Until recently, I didn't realize just how detrimental it is to be a male and express indecision. I identify with and have been influenced by certain Asian cultures where being polite to the point of indecision is commonplace and is tied to respect. I mistakenly took it too far. More often than not, opting out of making a choice is seen by women as seeking approval or lacks confidence.

When a woman gives me a choice between two options for dinner, the worst possible answer is to put the question back on her and ask her where she wants to go or to say that I don't know. Instead, I take a stance and make a choice. If I really don't care, I'll pick at random and if I need to I'll site it as such. The important thing is that I made the choice. It doesn't even matter whether or not I had a reason for picking one place over the other. Naturally, more important life decisions require more thought, but even then it doesn't pay dividends to show indecision or ambivalence. I test reasonably close to being a P, but I do not identify closely with INTP when it comes to indecision. It is not a useful life skill and it causes the wrong kind of tension in a relationship. It is turn off, not an attraction device. Indecision about whether or not a guy wants to be in a relationship is even worse. Either you do or you don't. There is no reason to need to make or push long term decisions like marriage on an INTP unless you are at that stage and it is time to make that decision.

I am not picky at all. But when I am with a girl, I'll state my opinion and I'll be just picky enough that she feels I have some conception of discerning taste buds. When I tell her that I want her, she will be more likely to know that I mean it. I have chosen her! Indecision doesn't get you to that point. It just leaves a bad taste in her mouth and his.

I could have learned that years ago, but I just couldn't get it through my thick head.

Does being an INTP really mean that a guy has to be indecisive?

[Deliberator]

INTP's can be very complicated, difficult people. I am married to an INTP, and my father is an INTP. They are not terribly reliable. They are very unpredictable. Usually emotional, but very bad at dealing with their emotions and the emotions of others. Not always pragmatic. Tend to be negative, tend toward depression.

But I don't care. I love him to death. I'll never get bored!

[CarissaJ]

My boyfriend's the most confusing person I've ever met. He's indecisive to the point of admitting to feeling like "unsuitable boyfriend material". He's also so fickle that I can't rely on his [limited] emotions. Yet aside from this unreliability, he's SO warm, caring, open, and affectionate. He's always full of genuine smiles. He introduces me with pride, forces my hand in his when we're out in public. I've never seen him as happy as when he's with me (but I've also seen him downright miserable just being in the same room). Honestly, considering the latter description I'm sure he sounds like a wonderful boyfriend and you don't know why I would feel conflicted.

But you do understand how these rollercoasters affect a person, right? The closer I get, the further the next push.

We've had some close calls with breaking up due to his indecisiveness. I've never had this happen until now, but about five people have commented on how happy he seems when he's with me. I've also never met someone so similar to myself, only my emotions are my best friends and I readily expose them to others. I just feel that it's the best tool to be had in human relationships.

This weekend, however, he mentionned this strong need to seclude himself in his basement. We're both 22 and for financial reasons both still live at home with our parents, and he has problems with his mom and her boyfriend. He has virtually no friends (though he seems to enjoy it that way,) and he recently dropped out of his college course to go into a different one this Fall (one I'm not even convinced he's completely set on). The only time I've seen his emotions was when he was in the middle of a full-fledged emotional fit and crying, admitting to feeling very depressed and dettached as if he can't feel anything anymore. He's seeing a therapist, and the people who matter most have tried including themselves in the solution but to no avail have the proverbial door shut on them.

I want him badly. I see so much of him in myself and vice versa that the relationship is an asset. I want to be there for him, but how do I even know he wants me in the picture period? We've decided to spend less time together and to make our time together more worthwhile as the stress of it all has lumped us into a routine, something in which a 5 month relationship shouldn't be. I'm willing to handle his baggage because he's absolutely worth it. I just don't know how.

Hi Oleander, I followed the link you sent me link and here I am!you I sent you a message PM(other site) I hope you got it.
INTPs are not the most dependable people, to say the least.
Selfishness can be our middle name. But in a sloan test way john/SELFISH/smith -primary SELFISH. *sad* I will check for more posts from you! c