Advice Needed on Meeting Women

[Mogura]

I'm not looking for advice on wooing women. I'm just looking for advice on meeting women. I seem to be at an impasse on this topic, so I am looking for some fresh ideas and out-of-the box suggestions.

Some background info that might be helpful: I am single (never been married), in my late 30's, friendly and personable to the point that I can carry on a conversation, but shy enough that I cannot initiate a conversation or approach a complete stranger and "hit on" them. I have been away from the dating scene for several years.

Here are some ways of meeting women that don't work for me (and why they don't work):

1. Nightclubs and bars - Smoke, loud music, booze, drugs, hip-hop music, obnoxious boys, party girls. Need I say more?

2. The Internet - Online dating sites are populated with either nut-jobs or ultra-perfectionists (or ultra-perfectionist nut-jobs); the rest are all liars.

3. Approaching someone in a public place - Not culturally acceptable in the country in which I live (Japan), so a woman would not respond to well to it.

4. The office - IT department, small company (30 employees), high male-female ratio (the few females that are here are already married with kids--doh!).

5. Introduction through friends - All of my friends, co-workers, etc. are married with children (i.e., they don't maintain active social lives).

6. Church or other religious institutions - Same as #2.

Edit: I should clarify my motives/intentions/goals here. Ultimately, I am looking for the one to spend the rest of my life with. But I have to start somewhere, so I figured meeting a few nice lasses would be a good start...

[JustMel]

The only thing you don't have listed is a personals ad in the newspaper....

Not everyone online is a liar or ultra-perfectionist nut-jobs. Sounds as if you haven't been to the "right" sites. Some of the people here have had luck with dating sites so hopefully one of them will chime in. Others have met people on this forum and those relationships seem to be doing well.

What country do you live in, if you're comfortable saying, that might help some of us come up with ideas.

Is there a bookstore or local cafe that singles frequent that isn't a club type setting?

One of my best friends met his wife at Bed, Bath and Beyond. He asked her opinion on the sheets he was buying for his bedroom. He wasn't really there to buy sheets, he just figured it was a good place to meet women on his lunch break. They talked, sparks flew, he bought sheets and they exchanged phone numbers. Three years later they have a set of twins and are still so sickeningly in love it makes you want to poke yourself in the eye or check your blood sugar. BUT he still tells every guy he knows to go to those type places at lunch time. (I don't know if you have those type places where you are.)

[Thinker]

One of my best friends met his wife at Bed, Bath and Beyond. He asked her opinion on the sheets he was buying for his bedroom. He wasn't really there to buy sheets, he just figured it was a good place to meet women on his lunch break. They talked, sparks flew, he bought sheets and they exchanged phone numbers. Three years later they have a set of twins and are still so sickeningly in love it makes you want to poke yourself in the eye or check your blood sugar. BUT he still tells every guy he knows to go to those type places at lunch time. (I don't know if you have those type places where you are.)

It's killing me.....What type of sheets did he end up buying?

[JustMel]

It's killing me.....What type of sheets did he end up buying?

600 thread count, cotton, blue. He still has them. Still in the package. They keep them as a reminder of "the day our lives became forever intertwined". I told you it's enough to make you want to check your sugar....

[DanteFalling]

Okay, the first thing I'd do in your situation is get out some graphing paper and a mechanical pencil (not even joking) or pull up an Excel file and jot down 10 reasons I want to meet women or a woman.

From those, work out whether you want to simply meet more women or a woman at a time (meeting women as a group could be beneficial in your conversation skills or in getting you ready for pre-dating, while searching for a LTR woman might help you put yourself in a framework of looking for a person you really want to be with/procreate with/etc).

If you're just trying to meet female friends to hang out with, actually ask your married friends if they know of any single women who simply want to hang out and watch movies/go to the opera/watch sport events, etc. In this group, you might try significantly older and significantly younger women (I did this on individual dates and non-dates, and I liked it 18-45).

If you're looking for LTR, then I'd suggest starting with examining yourself first. Especially if you're looking to procreate successfully, think about picking a woman within 5 years of your age. That way she's young enough to likely produce healthier offspring but is old enough to want them (not as likely to accidentally get pregnant, abort them, not leave you randomly because she's young and wants to explore life, and near your age it's more likely she'll have some life experience and therefore high success rate at helping you with the childcare). So, long story-short, pick a woman within 5-ish years of your age.


Next list: What can you as a partner provide for the type of person you're looking for?
I don't mean money, gifts, or other valuables.
How much time are you aiming to spend with a person?
What are some things in your life that make it inhospitable for a prospective mate?
What are some basic, idiosyncratic needs you have?
What is your ten-year game plan at this moment?
What are some activities you REALLY enjoy doing?
What are some self-improvement activities you'd like to start? (running, playing piano, CPR, chess, a book club, swim class, etc). Pick something you ACTUALLY like doing. Find a local community college and take a class. Or volunteer for something you really believe in. You could volunteer at a hospital or Habitat for Humanity.

I often find that if you put yourself in the life you'd like to be in/improve your current life, you tend to fall into a sphere of people who have at least one similar interest or are also interest in things you like/similar intelligence, etc.

Other alternatives to taking a class: I've heard the online "meetup" site meetup.com has produced good results, but I've never tried it. Supposedly it's a similar idea to the college class. You meet to do something useful or interesting, so there's less date pressure and more of a chance you'll not meet a nut-job (but maybe this is where the perfectionists lurk :) ).


These are just my opinions. Results vary. And, I'm odd.

P.S. I don't think you actually need to start most conversations. Most of my successful flirting has been catching someone's eye while they're talking to another group and looking as if I'm intrigued by them or approve of what they're saying (only do this when it's true).

[Stratego]

It can be expensive, especially if you have a tight budget, but it might be worthwhile to try a pay site like e harmony.

Even if it doesn't work out, you're not any worse off then before, just out some money, and when you think of the possibility of success, the cost is minimal.

[Mogura]

The only thing you don't have listed is a personals ad in the newspaper....

Wow, I thought people just read those for "entertainment" purposes. Ha ha. As for me, newspaper personals are out...

What country do you live in, if you're comfortable saying, that might help some of us come up with ideas.

Japan.

Is there a bookstore or local cafe that singles frequent that isn't a club type setting?

As for bookstores, I wish. Well, there are bookstores here, but I am under the impression that a lot of people go to them for "alone time". At least their body language seems to suggest as such. The same goes for cafes. Unfortunately there aren't Borders or Barnes and Noble-type bookstores with built-in cafes...

One of my best friends met his wife at Bed, Bath and Beyond. He asked her opinion on the sheets he was buying for his bedroom. He wasn't really there to buy sheets, he just figured it was a good place to meet women on his lunch break. They talked, sparks flew, he bought sheets and they exchanged phone numbers. Three years later they have a set of twins and are still so sickeningly in love it makes you want to poke yourself in the eye or check your blood sugar. BUT he still tells every guy he knows to go to those type places at lunch time. (I don't know if you have those type places where you are.)

Sounds like he got to put his bed sheets to good use! Ha ha. Good on him. I'll have to give some thought as to what type of shops are near my workplace. Lots of restaurants and women's clothing shops (designer labels) in the area...

[Henry]

I'm not looking for advice on wooing women. I'm just looking for advice on meeting women. I seem to be at an impasse on this topic, so I am looking for some fresh ideas and out-of-the box suggestions.

Some background info that might be helpful: I am single (never been married), in my late 30's, friendly and personable to the point that I can carry on a conversation, but shy enough that I cannot initiate a conversation or approach a complete stranger and "hit on" them. I have been away from the dating scene for several years.

Here are some ways of meeting women that don't work for me (and why they don't work):

1. Nightclubs and bars - Smoke, loud music, booze, drugs, hip-hop music, obnoxious boys, party girls. Need I say more?

2. The Internet - Online dating sites are populated with either nut-jobs or ultra-perfectionists (or ultra-perfectionist nut-jobs); the rest are all liars.

3. Approaching someone in a public place - Not culturally acceptable in the country in which I live, so a woman would not respond to well to it.

4. The office - IT department, small company (30 employees), high male-female ratio (the few females that are here are already married with kids--doh!).

5. Introduction through friends - All of my friends, co-workers, etc. are married with children (i.e., they don't maintain active social lives).

6. Church or other religious institutions - Same as #2.

Edit: I should clarify my motives/intentions/goals here. Ultimately, I am looking for the one to spend the rest of my life with. But I have to start somewhere, so I figured meeting a few nice lasses would be a good start...

1. Don't do bars and clubs. Pure gristle.

2. Some guys have luck with the internet. I haven't. That said, if you sincerely can't approach in public (which is always awkward), figure out how to make the internet work. There's a way some guys do it, I don't know what it is but I'm sure there's a way.

3. Could you describe the country or at least region?

4. Don't use the office for dating. Unless you plan to marry said individual.

5. You'd be amazed how much friends and family love to find you matches. They'll know someone who knows someone.

6. Church actually isn't a terrible place, and they're not all polarized. Although they probably will be more homely than average.

[NoStoneUnturned]

Walk around with your pants undone while not wearing underwear.

If done, the women will find you.

[Mogura]

Walk around with your pants undone while not wearing underwear.

If done, the women will find you.

I've tried that, but it didn't work. Wardrobe malfunction (had the pants on backwards)...

:wacko:

[Brittle]

I think Dante had some great suggestions - put yourself into an enviroment where you can meet people outside of a "dating" set-up. Take a class in something interesting such as language, cooking, dancing (from personal experience, dance classes are always desperate for more men... I ended up dating someone from a class, so I know that can work), or whatever else tickles your fancy. Again, volunteering for a community group or hospital offers some great opportunities.

Or borrow someone's cute kid and take them to play at the park... seems some women find that kind of thing adorable! (and you can give the kid back at the end of the day). Failing that a cute pooch can work just as well ;)


Good luck! :)

[BostonIan]

Some background info that might be helpful: I am single (never been married), in my late 30's, friendly and personable to the point that I can carry on a conversation, but shy enough that I cannot initiate a conversation or approach a complete stranger and "hit on" them. I have been away from the dating scene for several years.

"Can't initiate a conversation" just means it's a skill you're currently bad at. Practice initiating enough, it should improve. So, I'd just get repetitions, find any excuse to approach people. Ask for directions, ask for the time, carry on polite conversations with clerks, ask for book recommendations in a book store (you're buying a gift and don't know the first thing about whatever section she's browsing), ask if they need help doing/carrying whatever they're doing/carrying, etc.; find every excuse.

You could even find some practical task where you'd need to approach a lot of people. For example, curious about something? Conduct a survey. Politically involved? Go door to door collecting signatures for whatever. This is all more for practicing initiation and comfortable conversation than meeting women.

For meeting women, just put yourself in a closed, recurring group with them - people who you'll connect with and see repeatedly. Volunteering is great, or you could take a class, join some social organization. Once you're in the group, just talk to them. Something about eye contact and speaking makes a woman's face reveal her interest level, and, even if she's not interested, there's no way to form social bonds without speaking. Talk to everybody in the group.

I'd go about the socializing without being goal-oriented, somewhat blasé. If you're in a rush, I think that means being less picky, not wanting it more or being over-invested in any particular potential partner.

[tntblaster]

from personal experience, dance classes are always desperate for more men... I ended up dating someone from a class, so I know that can work),


Good luck! :)

Women don't realize you're there looking for a date if you do this? I assumed it would be a mainly couples activity as well... Interesting.

[raz1337]

Women don't realize you're there looking for a date if you do this? I assumed it would be a mainly couples activity as well... Interesting.

Gotta find the right class for the right age group, though. You might end up with people in their 50's...

[Xanthippe]

Gotta find the right class for the right age group, though. You might end up with people in their 50's...

I'd recommend something trendy and athletic, like Zumba classes, at the intermediate level. A lot of older people may be unable to keep up.

[Nomadofthehills]

I'd recommend something trendy and athletic, like Zumba classes, at the intermediate level. A lot of older people may be unable to keep up.


I'm curious, do other INTJs inherently dislike anything trendy? I certainly do.





Nomadofthehills added to this post, 0 minutes and 54 seconds later...

3. Approaching someone in a public place - Not culturally acceptable in the country in which I live (Japan), so a woman would not respond to well to it.

Considering it is not culturally acceptable, seems like it would be the perfect way.

[LPM]

Women are just about everywhere you look. They make up about half the total population. Try talking to some of them as you go about your day.

[JustMel]

Sounds like he got to put his bed sheets to good use! Ha ha. Good on him. I'll have to give some thought as to what type of shops are near my workplace. Lots of restaurants and women's clothing shops (designer labels) in the area...

You could always be buying an outfit/shirt for your mom/sister/cousin

[Kele-De]

(1) Get a dog: It may seem obvious or cliche, but I love dogs and when I am out doing my thing I rarely check out men but I always check out the dog and want to touch and talk to the dog and I will assess a man's attraction based on how he interacts with his dog. (2) The gym: I like to work out alone and definitely notice the guys who are focused and keep to themselves--especially the ones who wear thought provoking t-shirts. (3) Online dating: Yes there are a lot of bad apples but after closing hundreds of profiles and suffering through many first dates I think I may have met a better than good match. So keep on truckin!

[Mogura]

(2) The gym: I like to work out alone and definitely notice the guys who are focused and keep to themselves--especially the ones who wear thought provoking t-shirts.

Okay, I have to ask... in describing the guys' T-shirts what exactly do you mean by "thought-provoking"? A logo or something written on the shirt ("Save the Whales", "E=mc^2", "I'm with Stupid", etc.)? Or the way the shirts "conforms" to their perfectly sculpted bodies?

I do hit the gym 2-3 times a week. Regrettably, my T-shirt is not thought-provoking in either of the ways described above. It's clean, though!

By the way, I thought that trying to meet women at the gym is a bad idea. Not that I would be against the idea. But most women seem to be...

[JohnDoe]

(2) The gym: I like to work out alone and definitely notice the guys who are focused and keep to themselves--especially the ones who wear thought provoking t-shirts.

Conversely, I know alot of people who think that going to the gym to meet women makes you a creep. So beware this approach.

[JustMel]

Okay, I have to ask... in describing the guys' T-shirts what exactly do you mean by "thought-provoking"? A logo or something written on the shirt ("Save the Whales", "E=mc^2", "I'm with Stupid", etc.)? Or the way the shirts "conforms" to their perfectly sculpted bodies?

I would say where I buy my thought provoking t-shirts but I think it'd be against the rules for advertising. I'll send it to you though.

Then again my idea of thought provoking and someone else's may.... probably aren't the same thing.

[Brittle]

Women don't realize you're there looking for a date if you do this? I assumed it would be a mainly couples activity as well... Interesting.

Some couples do go, but it's surprising how many singles are there - especially women (again, they're usually desperate for more men in these classes). The great thing is, although it does attract a lot of singles, it's not seen as a "singles scene"... it's more somewhere to have a bit of fun, learn a new skill and socialise in general.

As to the age groups, I was doing a Latin/Ballroom class (some salsa, rumba, foxtrot, etc) and there was an incredibly diverse age group.. anything from late teens to octogenerians. However the majority seemed to be in the 25-45 bracket.

One of the benefits about the dancing class is they do dances where you switch partners throughout the dance, so you get to meet quite a few people without having to ask for a dance and risking rejection. Once you've been going a while, you start getting to know familiar faces and approaching them becomes a lot easier.

[Mogura]

I would say where I buy my thought provoking t-shirts but I think it'd be against the rules for advertising. I'll send it to you though.

Then again my idea of thought provoking and someone else's may.... probably aren't the same thing.

Those were definitely... umm... thought-provoking... I like the Winnie the Pooh one. Ha ha... I sent you a link you might enjoy, which is a little more my style (if only they made moisture wicking T-shirts...)

[DanteFalling]

Okay, I have to ask... in describing the guys' T-shirts what exactly do you mean by "thought-provoking"? A logo or something written on the shirt ("Save the Whales", "E=mc^2", "I'm with Stupid", etc.)? Or the way the shirts "conforms" to their perfectly sculpted bodies?

I do hit the gym 2-3 times a week. Regrettably, my T-shirt is not thought-provoking in either of the ways described above. It's clean, though!

By the way, I thought that trying to meet women at the gym is a bad idea. Not that I would be against the idea. But most women seem to be...

I have to admit on the rare moment when I've gone to the gym in the past (been a year now, oops), I have hated when the average male has tried to hit on me, but then again, they all seemed like S or strong F types. So, maybe it wouldn't be too bad.

[curiousgeorge01]

Yea I would say you're best bet is to have one of your friends hook you up, at least they have an idea of your preferences. You might also want to check your "look," conversation pieces and image you give off as women are very sensitive towards these things.

Honestly though I'm a fairly good looking man and have the "look" portion down but as an INTJ, I come off as cold. After knowing me for about 30 min women already have me labeled as boring because the topics I talk about seem to be way off. Mind you, most women aren't INTJ, so they wouldn't find topics like sociology or philosophy mentally nor physically stimulating!

[Prunesquallor]

What sort of woman are you trying to attract? I mean personality-wise, not looks. It would help you to target your approach - and the rest of us our advice. Otherwise we can only give you "this works for me" "here's a possibility" or "here's how to appeal to the generic." Not that these are useless for ideas, but to help filter out what you don't need to hear you could try a little specificity...

That said, there have been some interesting ideas suggested in this thread.

[Kele-De]

By "thought provoking" I mean clever words or some sort of symbol that makes a statement. I have seen music concert and political t-shirts that enable me to distinguish a guy from the crowd. My personal logic is that its a gym. People check each other out. If I catch a guy looking at me who creeps me out in any situation, I just give him the stare down frown. There is a big difference between the "glance and smile" at the water fountain and the creep who seems to always be in your way. We have the whole gamut at my gym from the Scandanavian slightly creepy sauna grandpa to the gangly teenager, and the hardcore gym rat. It's professionally managed and patrolled so I feel very safe which is probably why I belong.

[Mogura]

What sort of woman are you trying to attract? I mean personality-wise, not looks. It would help you to target your approach - and the rest of us our advice. Otherwise we can only give you "this works for me" "here's a possibility" or "here's how to appeal to the generic." Not that these are useless for ideas, but to help filter out what you don't need to hear you could try a little specificity...

Well, I would prefer not to limit myself by narrowing my focus, as there are great women from all walks of life. But if pressed, I would say an NF of some sort. I have always been mentally attracted to artistic and/or nurturing, giving types--artists, musicians, teachers, nurses, therapists, etc. Unfortunately, I don't come across those too much in my day-to-day routine/social circles.

[jhbowden79]

Mogura, I feel your pain!

Hey, I'm initiating the conversations, and I'm still striking out. I think I need to shave my head, get some tats, wear a wife-beater, and start a heroin business --right now I'm just too white and nerdy and don't seem dangerous enough.

[DanteFalling]

Well, I would prefer not to limit myself by narrowing my focus, as there are great women from all walks of life. But if pressed, I would say an NF of some sort. I have always been mentally attracted to artistic and/or nurturing, giving types--artists, musicians, teachers, nurses, therapists, etc. Unfortunately, I don't come across those too much in my day-to-day routine/social circles.

I understand that. I'm attracted to ENFJ men.

[Mogura]

My Chemistry.com results are in: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

It's a pretty accurate description. I should add that I am actually an INFJ, which probably accounts for the Negotiator description...

[JustMel]

Those were definitely... umm... thought-provoking... I like the Winnie the Pooh one. Ha ha... I sent you a link you might enjoy, which is a little more my style (if only they made moisture wicking T-shirts...)

I did enjoy the link and so did my husband. thanks

[Prunesquallor]

Well, I would prefer not to limit myself by narrowing my focus, as there are great women from all walks of life. But if pressed, I would say an NF of some sort. I have always been mentally attracted to artistic and/or nurturing, giving types--artists, musicians, teachers, nurses, therapists, etc. Unfortunately, I don't come across those too much in my day-to-day routine/social circles.

So how can you manage to incorporate going places they might be?
Not really my area of expertise, but something warm&fuzzy like yoga/massage classes/bars right outside a hospital/music/art stores/galleries/ cafes with live music/other people fill in the rest; I really don't leave my house much, honest so am no expert.