Dealing with infidelity?

[AnEskimo]

It all started with the new job my wife (ENFP) got. She became a peircer at a tattoo shop. I was happy she got a job, but also a bit bummed because I work 4a-1p and her hours are 3p-10p. After about a week, she started going out with her co-workers at drinking; resulting in her coming home at 3 just in time for me to leave for work, or her not coming home at all, resulting in me calling in to work so I could watch my daughter. One guy in particular who didn't work there, but came there everyday started to worry me. Funniest part was, it was my co-workers son, so my wife excused to me saying that i know his mom and he's a good guy and such. They started hanging out more and more, and by themselves on a few occasions. Then the texting started. Non stop texting, and I could never get her phone to look at the messages. It started to drive me crazy. Finally, I had a really big day at work and I really needed to be there on time, and she decided to not come home. I had to wake my parents up at 2 am to drop of my daughter so i could go to work. When I got home we decided to temporarily separate and seek therapy. She was still living with me, just sleeping in a different bed. By the next day, I was feeling pretty crappy for suggesting a separation so I tried to apologize for my harshness and such, but she thought it was still a good idea. We were kinda awkward for a few days, but finally we got pretty comfortable. We could sit together and watch a movie and have dinner and such, but every night around 10-10:30 she suddenly wanted alone time downstairs. I finally started getting really suspicious because she wasn't sleeping, and i just had this horrible feeling in my gut that something was wrong. Finally, I decided to do a little detective work and look at her MSN chatting logs. I found out that she had been talking to this guy all hours of the night, having sickening sexual conversations, and being very emotionally attracted. At that moment I was so glad and so hurt that I read them. I confronted her about it and she was in extreme denial about it being cheating at all. She said she had never had sex with him, and didn't plan too, although I showed her conversation that they talked about what time the other guy's girlfriend left for work so she could be there by then and "have her pie filled". She said that I did not satisfy her emotional needs any longer, and this guys acted like he actually cared about her. She said she felt bad about the sexual talk, but she said she was to the point of accepting any form of attention. We are seeking out therapy still, but she also said that she doesn't want to end her friendship with this man. I am not sure if we will get it worked out, even though I wish more than anything that we can. For myself and my daughter. Initially, in my anger, I kicked her out of the house, leaving her with nothing and no one to turn too. After I cooled down I had a change of heart and we decided that she can stay here until she finds another place.

You see, I am not very good with emotional situations. I don't understand why this happened, or how to handle it. I am so used to everything just being OK. That may be where this stemmed from in the first place, but I am willing to try and learn how to be less "cold-hearted" and more of a caring and emotionally nurturing person. Can anyone else explain to me ways of handling these foreign emotions? I am not used to being hurt. Guilt and self-hatred I am very familiar with, but not the emotional pain of being hurt. I am not finding effective methods of dealing with this, and am finding myself lacking sleep and nutrition. I just want answers to why this happened, and if we will every be able to fix our relationship.

Did I make sense at all? Or did I ramble myself into a confusing mess? Anyway, support of any kind would be very much appreciated!

[HeyZeus]

I am divorced now and was in a similar place. She is ESFP. She guarded her phone, password protected, etc. Out all hours. Texting texting texting. Not coming home. You are not the problem. It is reasonable to expect her to be home. She wants a bad boy and a life of excitement--let her have it on someone else's dime. You are working, providing, and don't appear to be straying from your post. She is creating the problem and trying to duck responsibility for destructive behavior. It is destructive, and if she cannot see that then she is not ready for marriage. If you have temporarily stabilized the situation and can afford it, have a real detective follow her for independent presentation of evidence that will make it impossible for her to do anything but settle out of court on custody. She wants to be elsewhere. Let her be elsewhere. Strategize. Ensure you win custody. Find that which will assure you custody and raise your child. Acting decently may not affect her behavior. It did not in my case. Now she is pretending to be a mature adult and custody trial looms. Take the initiative--don't be a sap like I was.

[Josephine1012]

Question: has she shown in any way that she wants to work things out? I think her refusal to end her extramarital affair is a terrible sign. I'm not very good at giving marital advice (since my approach is that of a single person), but I'm guessing therapy sounds like a good way to go in this case.

[AnEskimo]

Question: has she shown in any way that she wants to work things out? I think her refusal to end her extramarital affair is a terrible sign. I'm not very good at giving marital advice (since my approach is that of a single person), but I'm guessing therapy sounds like a good way to go in this case.

That is what is weird, sometimes she is acting like she really wants to make things better and she feels horrible. I think it really hit her when she had to say good bye to our daughter. And when she realized that she had nothing and no where to go. I think it made her wonder if the other relationship was worth it. Yet, she still says that it would be too difficult to completely end her friendship/relationship with this other guy. It just doesn't make sense to me...

By the way... She is an ENFP

[reb]

having been 'about there', but thank god not with kids, this is my brutally honest opinion:

protect your custody of your daughter as best you can; move on emotionally from this person. you are wasting your time. i have learned that my emotions in relationships are 'not my friend'.

i thought that perhaps i could be 'more warm hearted'...i think i am 'inside'. i am not, however, when someone cheats me or lies to me in some way. and i never forget it if it was a serious breach of trust. it colors my trust from then on; i may be around that person, but they won't get 'the full trust'. i have found i cannot give anyone 'my full trust'-it just does not work for me. i hope you can find a way to communicate 'your emotions' in a way that doesn't trap you or some other thing you do not intend. i have not been successful at that, and frankly, don't even try. if i feel something, and it seems appropriate or worthwhile (as here), i say it. i do not attach anything to the consequences anymore; if i believe the consequences will be more than i wish to deal with, i say nothing.

damn. sorry this happened to you. life frequently sucks, and we have to disconnect the vacuum to make it stop.

[Josephine1012]

That is what is weird, sometimes she is acting like she really wants to make things better and she feels horrible. I think it really hit her when she had to say good bye to our daughter. And when she realized that she had nothing and no where to go. I think it made her wonder if the other relationship was worth it. Yet, she still says that it would be too difficult to completely end her friendship/relationship with this other guy. It just doesn't make sense to me...

By the way... She is an ENFP

Well, to be honest, personality type aside she sounds really bad. First and foremost, I can understand that sometimes marriage can't be all peaches and cream, but I think her behavior is very irresponsible towards your child (though she may know that you will pick up the slack), not to mention dishonest towards you. I would follow the advice given above and get solid evidence of her infidelity. You can do with it what you will, but I've heard horror stories about people suffering significant financial damage as a result of divorce.

I don't believe being ENFP excuses her behavior we may be more feeling individuals, but realistically she is the one who fucked up and she is looking for a way to excuse her behavior by pointing the finger at you. Despite having F as a secondary function, we can still think rationally so she sounds like she is manipulating you, because you're feeling vulnerable.

You said she just got a job, was she at home before? She may have gotten bored from not being socialized enough, which isn't your fault and simply released that energy. She doesn't want to be in the wrong and so she is blaming it on you.

You can't force her to do anything, but she should understand that there are repercussions to her behavior. Though I don't know if policing your marriage is the best way to go to save it, it's still sounds better than letting her do whatever she feels like doing because she knows you won't stop her and she has the upper hand. I'm guessing she is assuming hopeless devotion on your part, otherwise she would have used a different way to defend herself, than: "honey, it's all your fault".


**************For the record***************

If you two didn't share a child I would say, get out while you can. I realize that I don't have the liberty to say that in this case, since I don't know what I'm talking about. But my honest opinion is she will not change. She may get scared, she may cry and make promises, these tendencies may become dormant, but... they will still be there just waiting to errupt.

I also think her behavior is more reprehensible because she isn't just hurting (fully grown adult who is not related to her by blood), but her own child (who needs her)

[WaeV]

Do whatever is best for the kid. If that means separating, so be it. If that means working out your differences, so be it.

[Josephine1012]

How old is she, if you don't mind my asking? Also, I learned quite a bit about personality types on this board, one of my major discoveries was you can not judge a person on their type alone. So, ENFP she maybe, though natuarlly I'm biased to assume she is not. Perhaps if you are using type to gain a better understanding of her actions you may want to consider some of the other options for her type, just to get a comparison.

[mmm7789]

try the support site surviving infidelity It helped me a lot. My ex and I will eventually divorce. The site helped me a good bit. It's easy to blame yourself, especially when the other person wants to blame you, too, but you are no more responsible for who your partner sleeps with than you are what food she eats. She could have left, then got a boyfriend. She could have said "i"m not happy". She had lots of choices, she picked a bad one. It didn't "acidentally" happen. (that's one of my pet peeve sayings) good luck.

[JustMel]

Even if you do become less "cold hearted" chances are she'd find something else to complain about and justify her behavior with that. If you came to me as a client I would tell you to keep documentation of the affair and yes emotional betrayal like the conversations online and texting does count as infidelity it's called "alienation of affection" and in some states you can actually sue and be awarded monetary damages from the "other" person because they knowingly entered into an affair with someone who was not free to do so. You also document every time she didn't come home at all. You document every cell phone call between the two of them.

You talk to a local attorney and file for divorce on the grounds of adultery. You seek sole custody of your child since your wife has nowhere to go. You have no way of knowing where your child would be and if she moved in with this man or friends you have no idea what your child would be exposed to.

If you want to pursue counseling you can file for a legal separation giving you sole custody of your child until you determine if you're going to divorce and re-examine it at that time.

It sounds to me as if your wife saw another side of life that let her off the hook from being a wife and mom and is thinking that the grass is greener. She'll either grow up and you'll work it out in counseling or you won't. You could change until you became everything she says she wants and then she'd want something else. She has to be willing to end the "friendship". If she's not it shows he is more important than her family. If you're serious about saving your marriage you cut out the part that is tainted--in this case him. You'd never trust her around him again would you? I would say no.

Let me know what state you're in and I'll do some checking for laws and good attorneys if you want me to.

My husband's ex screwed around a lot and tried to blame it all on him. He was giving her everything she said she wanted but it was never enough. She wanted out of the marriage but for him to still support her and let her do what she wanted. It's selfish and you and your child deserve to be more than an afterthought. You don't even know what was happening in your house while you were at work when she did come home.

[Cthulhu]

Day-um. By my count, there are already three INTJ males on this thread to whom something like this has happened. You can count me as the fourth. I'm sorry to hear about your situation.

What troubles me the most is that she's unwilling to give up contact with the other guy. I think any reasonable person would see that as a prerequisite for any kind of reconciliation.

[mmm7789]

I hate to add, it isn't only INTJ spouses, it can be anyone of any age.

[BostonIan]

According to me:

Therapy is just paying someone to talk to you, and I wouldn't obsess too much about being cuckolded or dwell on the relationship feelings. Accept whatever blame the husband deserves when the wife strays, either from a poor choice of wife, or a mis-structured relationship. The things she says are the reasons she cheats are probably just how she makes sense of her actions. I'd personally observe her faults, forgive them, but also never sleep with her again.

The real villain is the man. The relationship was rocky, she was chemically dissatisfied, and he helped himself. Sleeping with another man's wife is the most flagrant disrespect a guy can do, it's like breaking into your house and threatening your family, and, from what it seems, the man's still hanging around your house.

To me, that's beyond talking. Preliminary plan: go to meet him, introduce yourself, then hit him as hard as you can. I can't see any outcome that wouldn't make it worth it, and I think it's the right thing to do.

[JustMel]

According to me:

Therapy is just paying someone to talk to you, and I wouldn't obsess too much about being cuckolded or dwell on the relationship feelings. Accept whatever blame the husband's deserves when the wife strays, either from a poor choice of wife, or a mis-structured relationship. The things she says are the reasons she cheats are probably just how she makes sense of her actions. I'd personally observe her faults, forgive them, but also never sleep with her again.

The real villain is the man. The relationship was rocky, she was chemically dissatisfied, and he helped himself. Sleeping with another man's wife is the most flagrant disrespect a guy can do, it's like breaking into your house and threatening your family, and, from what it seems, the man's still hanging around your house.

To me, that's beyond talking. Preliminary plan: go to meet him, introduce yourself, then hit him as hard as you can. I can't see any outcome that wouldn't make it worth it, and I think it's the right thing to do.

About a week after my husband's ex left with the other guy---who my husband had taken in and given a place to live, helped find a job etc-- he ran into them in a local pool hall and walked up to the guy and shook his hand and said, "Man you did me a favor. I know she's expensive, need any cash?"

[wotsamattaU]

Really sorry to hear you're going through this. It happened to a family member of mine. Lots of parallels between your story and his.

They worked opposite hours so one could be there to watch the kids. (in their case, two little ones)

She claimed he was emotionally distant and was simply not there for her - after the fact.

He had thought everything was going along perfectly fine.

The bombshell was broken to him by an anonymous phone caller who told him his wife was going out after hours with people from work. She was spending a lot of time with a male co-worker...too much time.

When confronted, the wife admitted to this (the group were going out dancing and drinking) but said the co-worker was just a friend. The physical affair had not started then, but later once in counseling she admitted it would have had things continued uninterrupted. There was texting all hours, and the cell phone calls - things the husband was not aware of until he began to do some checking. He was stunned.

They wound up getting divorced when she decided she did not want to fix their marriage. She did marry the co-worker. (She's headed towards a divorce from him now, several years later and they've a baby together.)

Her first husband felt the irony of her leaving him (a dedicated, loyal and providing man of character - quality individual) for a man who still lived at home, had already filed bankruptcy (in his early 20's) and was now working in a clothing store as a custodian. How would this individual, who couldn't manage his own expenses manage his wife? For she is expensive - only the very finest for her will do.

The wife is the sort of person who really needs to be out there having fun being in the limelight. She depends on society's reactions to reflect that she is desirable. She was also very spoiled as a child and nothing is ever good enough. This woman continually lives above her means and will always be this way. It is now the ruin of her 2nd marriage.

One of the main troubles in her first marriage was that her husband was a strong individual who kept her spending in check. He was able to rein in her extravagant tendencies. She chafed against this. So when the co-worker showed her some attention, made her feel good about herself once again...she became hooked.

Her second husband was a Yes Man. He told her everything she desired to hear and made her feel like a Queen. Bad combination - now she had a free rein and she took them all down with her selfish ways. This also exposed her children to years of infighting (first between husband #1 - post-divorce, and now with husband #2). It's a mess. She is forever blaming everyone else for her troubles and financial crises, and never for a moment takes responsibility for her actions.

Every situation is unique. I thought perhaps hearing about someone else who has been down a similar road might help. Sometimes no matter what the other party needs a level of adoration the other is not capable of giving. I agree with what the others here have said; document everything. Think of your child, who is worth so much more.

[Henry]

It all started with the new job my wife (ENFP) got. She became a peircer at a tattoo shop. I was happy she got a job, but also a bit bummed because I work 4a-1p and her hours are 3p-10p. After about a week, she started going out with her co-workers at drinking; resulting in her coming home at 3 just in time for me to leave for work, or her not coming home at all, resulting in me calling in to work so I could watch my daughter. One guy in particular who didn't work there, but came there everyday started to worry me. Funniest part was, it was my co-workers son, so my wife excused to me saying that i know his mom and he's a good guy and such. They started hanging out more and more, and by themselves on a few occasions. Then the texting started. Non stop texting, and I could never get her phone to look at the messages. It started to drive me crazy. Finally, I had a really big day at work and I really needed to be there on time, and she decided to not come home. I had to wake my parents up at 2 am to drop of my daughter so i could go to work. When I got home we decided to temporarily separate and seek therapy. She was still living with me, just sleeping in a different bed. By the next day, I was feeling pretty crappy for suggesting a separation so I tried to apologize for my harshness and such, but she thought it was still a good idea. We were kinda awkward for a few days, but finally we got pretty comfortable. We could sit together and watch a movie and have dinner and such, but every night around 10-10:30 she suddenly wanted alone time downstairs. I finally started getting really suspicious because she wasn't sleeping, and i just had this horrible feeling in my gut that something was wrong. Finally, I decided to do a little detective work and look at her MSN chatting logs. I found out that she had been talking to this guy all hours of the night, having sickening sexual conversations, and being very emotionally attracted. At that moment I was so glad and so hurt that I read them. I confronted her about it and she was in extreme denial about it being cheating at all. She said she had never had sex with him, and didn't plan too, although I showed her conversation t

Did I make sense at all? Or did I ramble myself into a confusing mess? Anyway, support of any kind would be very much appreciated!

1. Why are you married at all? Unless you genuinely want a family life, there's no reason to get hitched. If you're fit and solvent, there's an endless supply of 18-25 year olds only too happy to engage in relationships with men from 25-40, and once you're over 40 you can still date the 30-40 crowd basically until you die.
2. If you do want to a family life, this is clearly not the quality of woman you want to raise a family with. All relationships involve ups and downs, and if she's going to start "filling her pie" elsewhere soon after things get rough, this is either a bad fit for the both of you or she isn't capable of monogamy.
3. "Not meeting my emotional needs" is a cop out. If you're in a relationship, you don't fuck or get caught up in the anima/animus projection game with other people until you communicate that the relationship is over.
4. Visit all the best divorce attorneys in town for a "consultation" regarding the divorce. They then will not be able to take her case and she'll have to settle for a terrible or out of town one, and that will be sad. She's at fault and she's working, so you may be able to get out of alimony altogether.

Question: has she shown in any way that she wants to work things out? I think her refusal to end her extramarital affair is a terrible sign. I'm not very good at giving marital advice (since my approach is that of a single person), but I'm guessing therapy sounds like a good way to go in this case.

Nah. This is deal-breaker-unless-you-have-self-esteem-issues type stuff. A flirtatious relationship with a coworker is commonplace. Hanging out solo with a coworker is definitely pushing the boundaries of what 9/10 people would consider reasonable. Sexting with a coworker is over the line. Not spending any time with the OP or their kid is a sign its over for her. Not breaking it off with the coworker after discovery is either puerile or heartless.

Really sorry to hear you're going through this. It happened to a family member of mine. Lots of parallels between your story and his.

They worked opposite hours so one could be there to watch the kids. (in their case, two little ones)

She claimed he was emotionally distant and was simply not there for her - after the fact.

He had thought everything was going along perfectly fine.

The bombshell was broken to him by an anonymous phone caller who told him his wife was going out after hours with people from work. She was spending a lot of time with a male co-worker...too much time.

When confronted, the wife admitted to this (the group were going out dancing and drinking) but said the co-worker was just a friend. The physical affair had not started then, but later once in counseling she admitted it would have had things continued uninterrupted. There was texting all hours, and the cell phone calls - things the husband was not aware of until he began to do some checking. He was stunned.

They wound up getting divorced when she decided she did not want to fix their marriage. She did marry the co-worker. (She's headed towards a divorce from him now, several years later and they've a baby together.)

So from this thread we've learned that marriage is a terrible, terrible deal for men, that a man should not get married unless he wants a family life, and that if he does want a family life he should avoid the third-rate gristle that fills up most bars.

[uncon]

She said she had never had sex with him, and didn't plan too, although I showed her conversation that they talked about what time the other guy's girlfriend left for work so she could be there by then and "have her pie filled". She said that I did not satisfy her emotional needs any longer, and this guys acted like he actually cared about her. She said she felt bad about the sexual talk, but she said she was to the point of accepting any form of attention. We are seeking out therapy still, but she also said that she doesn't want to end her friendship with this man.

Some thoughts: there is no excuse for cheating, physical or emotional. Even if you were a verbally abusive bastard it wouldn't justify cheating. If may justify divorce but not cheating. See what I'm saying? You made a deal and that deal was really about child rearing (marriage) and emotional partnership. Unless you get a divorce then there is no cheating. It's very simply and there is no excuse.

Maybe you're cold, maybe she's playing the victim to justify bad behavior. I have no idea who's really more at fault with regard to maintaining the relationship but I do know who has been at the very least emotionally cheating and this is obviously just a precursor to physical cheating.

Your wife is not a victim. She chose you and even it's really not working out it's time to be an adult and admit that and get divorced and then pursue getting pies filled. Otherwise, she's just having growing pains associated with being married (and immature) and that is usually temporary provided that the really bad behavior can be stopped before lasting damage has been done.

What I'm saying is that you're going to have to ask her to make a decision: marriage or not. Your J ability should help with this. Just be blunt - she's a P so she'll try to be ambiguous and/or open ended about things but you're going to have to make it explicit. I don't mean to be unkind but "grow a pair" and by this I'm not implying you're a wimp - instead I'm saying that maybe what this woman needs is not so much love and affection as territorial aggression. Maybe you're too passive and accepting. People want jealousy to a certain degree. Be the gorilla, call that fucker up she's flirting with and say no more contact m* f*cker (or at least threaten to do so to her) - I've been both ends of that dynamic and it was actually good either way b/c passion trumps reason. You can't reason your wife out of drifting away but passion and aggression might work. Whatever you're doing isn't working - so try something else. You've got it in you! That m* f*cker knows your married, he's 100% responsible for his actions against you, my friend. Whoo, I know if I'm seeing red thinking about this then you must be livid! Get in touch with it, it's there to help you. You've heard of the Gift of Fear - well, there is also the gift of rage.

Disclaimer

Extreme passion: good.
Homicide: not so much.
;)

Good luck!

[Feral]

You just described pretty much the exact situation that eventually led to my ex husband and I separating, just a bit mixed around between the two of us.

I don't know what you'll be able to accomplish if she refuses to break up her friendship with this man. If she won't in order to save the marriage, then I guess you know where her priorities lie.

Doesn't necessarily have to mean the end. Not promising though. I've been through absolute hell over the last year trying to get my ex husband and I to give it another shot. Before, since he was with this other woman, he wasn't willing to. After a lot of convincing (and even being a little underhanded), he finally broke it off with her, and we're beginning the effort of getting back together. We also have a child, and we both think it would be best for him. We never had a bad relationship before any of this started, it was just one thing after another that neither of us knew how to handle. I couldn't just let him go, I married him, thereby promising that I'd stick with him through whatever stupid shit he'd try to pull. And really, this is the first thing that's ever threatened to pull us apart, so I think it's worth fighting for.

It'll be up to you to determine if what you have or had is still worth fighting for.

[acyckowski]

protect your custody of your daughter as best you can....i have learned that my emotions in relationships are 'not my friend'


This statement is huge.

One of the benefits (and curses) of the military fishbowl is learning from other people's hard lessons. Long story short, hope for the best but prepare for the worst. I've seen too many soldiers go down in flames because they were unable to separate their hearts from their heads when all of alarm bells are going off.

You must get your financial and legal situation under your full control right now. Last thing you want on top of all this emotional turmoil is to have your bank accounts cleaned, a pile of debt in your name for things you didn't buy, and staggering child support payments being used to buy chrome rims for your ex's new boyfriend.

All your pay goes into an account in your name only. Title to your car goes in your name only. Your name comes off any credit cards she uses, if you two divide any of the bills then they have to be put in the name of whoever pays them....one word about that, whoever pays the mortgage/rent needs to also pay the water, electric, and gas. If she has a general power of attorney, shred it, burn the scraps, soak the ashes in fecal matter and personally take them to the landfill.

See a divorce lawyer. Even if you don't plan to file for divorce, you need to be in a good defensible position in case it's dropped on you. A good divorce attorney will be able to advise you on how to protect your interests in the eyes of the court. Every state has its own laws and nuances about property, custody, and what happens in the case of your death. You may have to spend some time and cash up front to get yourself squared away, but state laws and family courts are typically tilted way over to the mother's side.

[AnEskimo]

How old is she, if you don't mind my asking? Also, I learned quite a bit about personality types on this board, one of my major discoveries was you can not judge a person on their type alone. So, ENFP she maybe, though natuarlly I'm biased to assume she is not. Perhaps if you are using type to gain a better understanding of her actions you may want to consider some of the other options for her type, just to get a comparison.

We are both 20





AnEskimo added to this post, 9 minutes and 36 seconds later...

According to me:

Therapy is just paying someone to talk to you, and I wouldn't obsess too much about being cuckolded or dwell on the relationship feelings. Accept whatever blame the husband deserves when the wife strays, either from a poor choice of wife, or a mis-structured relationship. The things she says are the reasons she cheats are probably just how she makes sense of her actions. I'd personally observe her faults, forgive them, but also never sleep with her again.

The real villain is the man. The relationship was rocky, she was chemically dissatisfied, and he helped himself. Sleeping with another man's wife is the most flagrant disrespect a guy can do, it's like breaking into your house and threatening your family, and, from what it seems, the man's still hanging around your house.

To me, that's beyond talking. Preliminary plan: go to meet him, introduce yourself, then hit him as hard as you can. I can't see any outcome that wouldn't make it worth it, and I think it's the right thing to do.

Well, it's state law in Iowa that we take therapy first. I don't have a big issue with that, because even though I have never had faith in therapist before, I am, for once, willing to actually try to benefit form it. As for the other guy, this is where it gets even more awkward. He is one my co-workers sons, and I just found out today that he applied for the SAME department in the SAME store I work at ha ha. When I first met him, I thought he was pretty cool, and I recommended the position to him. I couldn't believe he applied for it AFTER this all started happening. He's got some balls. Or no brains.

[Josephine1012]

We are both 20




Well, in that case you're getting a very biased opinion of a never married 28 year old. I think you both are very young. I don't think you have much hope to fix things, especially since you two couldn't have even been married that long and it's already happening.

Relationships are really hard, you're unfortunately finding out the difficult way. The most important thing is not so much to save your marriage IMO, as much as it is to make sure you do what's best for your daughter.

Now if this kind of behavior continues from your wife, and it sounds as if it will. This is a terrible environment for your child. So the solution you need to be seeking is NOT how to get your wife back, but what will be the best way to raise your child given these unfortunate circumstances. this involves both getting custody, and what happens after you get custody. Who is going to help you watch her, visitation, etc. etc. These are all really scary things to think about, when all you want to figure is how to make it all go away. But you can't and I know you probably think the sky is falling right now, but it will get much easier with time and with a solid plan of action.

For what it's worth, this type of behavior is relation to the person who is acting this way and not anyone else. Don't think of this as your fault, everyone says that, but it's true.

there is nothing you could have done to make her act differently. If you were more attentive or more emotionally supportive as she says, maybe it would have happened a few months later... I believe she just got bored with playing house and decided it was party time (not something you can do when you have a kid).

In my opinion, as much of a jerk as the guy is for doing this, it isn't his reponsiblity to protect someone else's marriage. The responsibility is your wife's. She is a grown adult, she can make her own decisions and she is responsible for them.

No point in blaming anyonne else, but her. it does suck that he will be working side by side with you, but for what it's worth there isn't a happily ever after for them either. So you'll have the best seats in the house to watch that fiasco (if they choose to continue their relationship at all).

[Henry]

Well, it's state law in Iowa that we take therapy first. I don't have a big issue with that, because even though I have never had faith in therapist before, I am, for once, willing to actually try to benefit form it.

Can I ask you to explain how you are benefiting from this relationship? What's the payoff? Because I think most people would expect a very high existing payoff in a relationship if you're going to try to work through serious infidelity like this.


As for the other guy, this is where it gets even more awkward. He is one my co-workers sons, and I just found out today that he applied for the SAME department in the SAME store I work at ha ha. When I first met him, I thought he was pretty cool, and I recommended the position to him. I couldn't believe he applied for it AFTER this all started happening. He's got some balls. Or no brains.

I'm amazed you aren't feeling violent.

[Vagrant]

What the others have said is right here -- if you're 20, you couldn't have been married for more than a couple years. Cut her out, send her on her own. Cheating is never "accidental" nor is it justifiable. It's the coward's way out of not breaking up the relationship on his/her own.

But make sure you keep custody over your kid and your assets. Talk to divorce lawyers, see what you can do. You do not want your kid to grow up in an environment where the wife can do as she will.

Can I ask you to explain how you are benefiting from this relationship? What's the payoff? Because I think most people would expect a very high existing payoff in a relationship if you're going to try to work through serious infidelity like this.

My thoughts too. Relationships are meant for mutual benefit. If only one person is benefiting at the cost of another, it's called parasitism.

[dogwoodlover]

It all started with the new job my wife (ENFP) got. She became a peircer at a tattoo shop. I was happy she got a job, but also a bit bummed because I work 4a-1p and her hours are 3p-10p. After about a week, she started going out with her co-workers at drinking; resulting in her coming home at 3 just in time for me to leave for work, or her not coming home at all, resulting in me calling in to work so I could watch my daughter. One guy in particular who didn't work there, but came there everyday started to worry me. Funniest part was, it was my co-workers son, so my wife excused to me saying that i know his mom and he's a good guy and such. They started hanging out more and more, and by themselves on a few occasions. Then the texting started. Non stop texting, and I could never get her phone to look at the messages. It started to drive me crazy. Finally, I had a really big day at work and I really needed to be there on time, and she decided to not come home. I had to wake my parents up at 2 am to drop of my daughter so i could go to work. When I got home we decided to temporarily separate and seek therapy. She was still living with me, just sleeping in a different bed. By the next day, I was feeling pretty crappy for suggesting a separation so I tried to apologize for my harshness and such, but she thought it was still a good idea. We were kinda awkward for a few days, but finally we got pretty comfortable. We could sit together and watch a movie and have dinner and such, but every night around 10-10:30 she suddenly wanted alone time downstairs. I finally started getting really suspicious because she wasn't sleeping, and i just had this horrible feeling in my gut that something was wrong. Finally, I decided to do a little detective work and look at her MSN chatting logs. I found out that she had been talking to this guy all hours of the night, having sickening sexual conversations, and being very emotionally attracted. At that moment I was so glad and so hurt that I read them. I confronted her about it and she was in extreme denial about it being cheating at all. She said she had never had sex with him, and didn't plan too, although I showed her conversation that they talked about what time the other guy's girlfriend left for work so she could be there by then and "have her pie filled". She said that I did not satisfy her emotional needs any longer, and this guys acted like he actually cared about her. She said she felt bad about the sexual talk, but she said she was to the point of accepting any form of attention. We are seeking out therapy still, but she also said that she doesn't want to end her friendship with this man. I am not sure if we will get it worked out, even though I wish more than anything that we can. For myself and my daughter. Initially, in my anger, I kicked her out of the house, leaving her with nothing and no one to turn too. After I cooled down I had a change of heart and we decided that she can stay here until she finds another place.

You see, I am not very good with emotional situations. I don't understand why this happened, or how to handle it. I am so used to everything just being OK. That may be where this stemmed from in the first place, but I am willing to try and learn how to be less "cold-hearted" and more of a caring and emotionally nurturing person. Can anyone else explain to me ways of handling these foreign emotions? I am not used to being hurt. Guilt and self-hatred I am very familiar with, but not the emotional pain of being hurt. I am not finding effective methods of dealing with this, and am finding myself lacking sleep and nutrition. I just want answers to why this happened, and if we will every be able to fix our relationship.

Did I make sense at all? Or did I ramble myself into a confusing mess? Anyway, support of any kind would be very much appreciated!


Honestly, I don't really have any advice to give, but I just wanted to say that reading this genuinely made me feel bad for you (that doesn't happen to me a lot). Best of wishes; I hope it all works out.





dogwoodlover added to this post, 2 minutes and 24 seconds later...

Well, it's state law in Iowa that we take therapy first. I don't have a big issue with that, because even though I have never had faith in therapist before, I am, for once, willing to actually try to benefit form it. As for the other guy, this is where it gets even more awkward. He is one my co-workers sons, and I just found out today that he applied for the SAME department in the SAME store I work at ha ha. When I first met him, I thought he was pretty cool, and I recommended the position to him. I couldn't believe he applied for it AFTER this all started happening. He's got some balls. Or no brains.

Do whatever you can to sabotage him. Or, let him get the job, and then sabotage him. In my opinion, you should fucking ruin this guy's life.

[zippikay]

hmmm....
you: xxjx, thinking type, willing to work the relationship, thinking about kid
she: xxfx, feeler type, prefer to pursue self happiness than your kid.
quoting the above, "prepare for the worse" is absolute must...
think rationally, who do you think will be a better parent for your kid if you get separated? you? or your "wife"?
Do what you must and leave no emotion hinders what must be done.

[llBradll]

My gut is telling me you should get rid of her. My logic is telling me you should get rid of her. Doing this regularly would be bad enough, let alone after getting married and having a kid. I wouldn't want you to keep things going just to salvage what you might have only thought you had.

[Pcell]

I was in a similar situation with an ex boyfriend of 6 years. He complained I didn't provide him the attention he needed so he resorted to sending explicit sexual pictures to a co-worker, and god knows what considering they would have study sessions (for a certification test) and she would give him rides home. I'm fairly positive other things happened. But after the fact I caught him sending the pictures, he would blame it on me. I didn't give him enough attention, I didn't cook for him enough, I didn't do this or that..there was always an excuse.

We stayed together after it happened and the relationship was never the same. I never trusted him afterwards, and he became paranoid I would do the same to him (which I did). The relationship was finished.

I suggest you let it go. You're young, you have a child to think about. That's more important than an immature woman that won't let the other "friend" go, which by the way my ex did the same. He would actually defend the other woman. Ridiculous, I know.

Just cut your losses and move on.

[Henry]

I was in a similar situation with an ex boyfriend of 6 years. He complained I didn't provide him the attention he needed so he resorted to sending explicit sexual pictures to a co-worker, and god knows what considering they would have study sessions (for a certification test) and she would give him rides home. I'm fairly positive other things happened. But after the fact I caught him sending the pictures, he would blame it on me. I didn't give him enough attention, I didn't cook for him enough, I didn't do this or that..there was always an excuse.

Sorry to laugh at your pain, but I had to LOL at his logic:

"Hey baby, if you cook and take off your panties for me more often, I'll stop sleeping with other women."

I'll have to remember that slick argument in case I decide to cheat...what a prick.

[jokerman1704]

I've also been through pretty much the exact same thing, with children. It's really tough but as you can see it happens to many people and it's not something you should be ashamed of. She'll obviously blame you but if you're the one at home looking after her child it means nothing.

My advice to you is to sort your end out - assuming you're going ahead and ending it. This might be a bit blunt and not all may be relevant - I don't live in the States so I can only relate my experience...

* I documented everything I could showing how she had been neglecting the children as quickly as I could without giving my hand away
* I was told that anything relating to her infidelity would be irrelevant with respect to custody of the children - so don't waste too much time on that unless you have lots of assets that she might come after
* I got her to move out the house so she could "have some space" and leave the children with me - this was critical for me because it automatically gave me "primary residence" which is usually difficult to get as the father
* I drove the divorce process, she was too interested in her new relationship to care that much. This meant that I had a lot more control over the whole situation
* At the end of the day this will all come down to negotiation. You need to decide what you are willing to give up and what you are not and make sure that your hand is as strong as it can possibly be
* I didn't shut-off the divorce as quickly as I could have which caused issues - try and get it resolved her needing to get a lawyer. If you agree on things, make sure she signs on them
* In the long term it's best for the kids to have a stable relationships with both parents so as angry as you may be you want to make sure that you can control the course of things without being unnecessarily spiteful

Sorry - it's a horrible thing to have to go through - but things will probably work out for the best in the long run...

[Josephine1012]

hmmm....
you: xxjx, thinking type, willing to work the relationship, thinking about kid
she: xxfx, feeler type, prefer to pursue self happiness than your kid.


I hope that isn't really how you view the MBTI distinction and merely commenting on this specific situation. I think she was too young to be a mom.

Examples of two types of parents:


Responsible: My really close friend who is extremely responsible and always wanted kids, just had a baby at the age of 28. She says it is by far the hardest thing she has ever had to do and no matter what people told her she still didn't expect it to be this difficult. She is working her ass off to be the best parent possible, but it is hard work every single day.

Irresponsible: When I was in high school I had a part time job at a fast food place. One of the girls there who was 16 was pregnant with her 4th child!!! (do the math) I said, that boy this must extremely difficult on her to take care of so many kids. Her reply shocked me enough that more than a decade later I still remember it: "Not really, as long as they stay out of my way."

I think your wife is irresponsible and that is inherently what's causing her to not be the best of parents to your daughter, it has nothing to do with her being a feeler.

[Chemist]

It all started with the new job my wife (ENFP) got. She became a peircer at a tattoo shop. I was happy she got a job, but also a bit bummed because I work 4a-1p and her hours are 3p-10p. After about a week, she started going out with her co-workers at drinking; resulting in her coming home at 3 just in time for me to leave for work, or her not coming home at all, resulting in me calling in to work so I could watch my daughter. One guy in particular who didn't work there, but came there everyday started to worry me. Funniest part was, it was my co-workers son, so my wife excused to me saying that i know his mom and he's a good guy and such. They started hanging out more and more, and by themselves on a few occasions. Then the texting started. Non stop texting, and I could never get her phone to look at the messages. It started to drive me crazy. Finally, I had a really big day at work and I really needed to be there on time, and she decided to not come home. I had to wake my parents up at 2 am to drop of my daughter so i could go to work. When I got home we decided to temporarily separate and seek therapy. She was still living with me, just sleeping in a different bed. By the next day, I was feeling pretty crappy for suggesting a separation so I tried to apologize for my harshness and such, but she thought it was still a good idea. We were kinda awkward for a few days, but finally we got pretty comfortable. We could sit together and watch a movie and have dinner and such, but every night around 10-10:30 she suddenly wanted alone time downstairs. I finally started getting really suspicious because she wasn't sleeping, and i just had this horrible feeling in my gut that something was wrong. Finally, I decided to do a little detective work and look at her MSN chatting logs. I found out that she had been talking to this guy all hours of the night, having sickening sexual conversations, and being very emotionally attracted. At that moment I was so glad and so hurt that I read them. I confronted her about it and she was in extreme denial about it being cheating at all. She said she had never had sex with him, and didn't plan too, although I showed her conversation that they talked about what time the other guy's girlfriend left for work so she could be there by then and "have her pie filled". She said that I did not satisfy her emotional needs any longer, and this guys acted like he actually cared about her. She said she felt bad about the sexual talk, but she said she was to the point of accepting any form of attention. We are seeking out therapy still, but she also said that she doesn't want to end her friendship with this man. I am not sure if we will get it worked out, even though I wish more than anything that we can. For myself and my daughter. Initially, in my anger, I kicked her out of the house, leaving her with nothing and no one to turn too. After I cooled down I had a change of heart and we decided that she can stay here until she finds another place.

You see, I am not very good with emotional situations. I don't understand why this happened, or how to handle it. I am so used to everything just being OK. That may be where this stemmed from in the first place, but I am willing to try and learn how to be less "cold-hearted" and more of a caring and emotionally nurturing person. Can anyone else explain to me ways of handling these foreign emotions? I am not used to being hurt. Guilt and self-hatred I am very familiar with, but not the emotional pain of being hurt. I am not finding effective methods of dealing with this, and am finding myself lacking sleep and nutrition. I just want answers to why this happened, and if we will every be able to fix our relationship.

Did I make sense at all? Or did I ramble myself into a confusing mess? Anyway, support of any kind would be very much appreciated!
I'm sorry this happened to you... Is your wife completely financially dependent on you? Sometimes this can matter.

Unfortunately IMHO it seems like you wife might want to move on from you but feels unable to make a clean break - which would be the respectable way to do this.

For whatever reason... it seems like she is trying to start a new relationship while maintaining the old one - just in case or for financial reasons....

I think you should bail. There is absolutely no reason why you should be trapped in a relationship with someone that does not love you.

My parents are divorced and I grew up with my father... IMO focus on your kid and yourself...
If done properly a divorce is not the end of the world and as far as your emotional pain... it will suck for awhile but you WILL be better off in a normal healthy relationship or none at all.

Hope your situation improves...

[zippikay]

I hope that isn't really how you view the MBTI distinction and merely commenting on this specific situation. I think she was too young to be a mom.

Of course not. The feeler typology would enforce her immaturity, not immaturity because of her typology. Like you said, immature and too young is a bad recipe for becoming a mom. Moreover, correct me if I'm wrong (though I speak in a dangerous generalization and ultimately it will vary case by case), in general feeler type would go by their feeling than their logic, thus when she is being infatuated by her current thrill with her current companion she would be even less likely to think rationally.

My apology if any of my generalization would offend any rational feeler type...

[Josephine1012]

Of course not. The feeler typology would enforce her immaturity, not immaturity because of her typology. Like you said, immature and too young is a bad recipe for becoming a mom. Moreover, correct me if I'm wrong (though I speak in a dangerous generalization and ultimately it will vary case by case), in general feeler type would go by their feeling than their logic, thus when she is being infatuated by her current thrill with her current companion she would be even less likely to think rationally.

My apology if any of my generalization would offend any rational feeler type...

Well, you have to remember there are different types of feelings. I think that's the part that T types tend to forget about us when they try to understand how our F functions.

There is the feeling of infatuation (of course), there is the feeling of motherly love towards a daughter, there is the feeling of duty towards commitment you have made, and of course there is the feeling of guilt, there maybe others I'm missing but that's the most obvious ones that come to mind.

So how the combination of these feelings plays out is dependent on a person.

Naturally logical types operate similarly, they merely use their logic to reach their goal. Depending on the person how noble the goal is will be very different.

Regardless of the letter both types want some thing and don't want other things, the end goal if you will. The F types reconcile their feelings in order to reach that conclusion and the T types use logic in order to get there. So the T/F function is merely the method and it has nothing to do with the destination.



Logical approach that a T could have used to arrive at the same conclusion:

- I do not want to be married anymore.
- I don't have strong maternal feelings, but my child's father is very responsible person and will take care of our child sufficiently well if I flake out
- If I have this affair, I will be happy which is what I want to be.
- There is nothing to gain from not having it, since the I don't want to be married, my child is taken care of, and my husband will let it happen.

Done and done a "logical" justification.



A feeler approach that could have not resulted in an affair:

-I'm really bored and this guy is new and exciting, I really like him
-I really love my daughter, she is the most important thing in the world
-I respect and care about my husband, though things have been a little rough lately
-I cannot do this, because if I do I'll hurt my daughter whom I really love and my husband who is wonderful guy and who is important to me and I can not live with this kind of feeling of guilt.

The whim passes.

[Jonathan Brewer]

Eskimo, it is very simple. She has chosen "something else" over her family. It doesn't matter what that "something else" happens to be. I would have thrown her out of her ear the moment I was aware of the situation. Furthermore, I would have had her in divorce court, or whatever the state requires, immediately.

For the record, if my wife chose not to come home one night, there would be no discussion. It would be over, then and there.

I am very forgiving about a lot of things. Infidelity is the one exception. You cheat, you're gone, period.