Selfconfidence

[jaykay]

Hi everybody here,

I'm new on this forum, and this is my first post.

I have been thinking a lot about selfconfidence. Personally I make a distinction when it comes to selfconfidence, since I am sort of divided on the issue.

When it comes to how I view myself, I know that I am very good at many things, as well as what things I am not so good at. And I have a good selfconfidence. However, at times I am not selfconfident in relation to others. For instance, typically, if I were to apply for a certain job, and I did not have in black and white that I was fit for the position, I would not feel confident towards a prospect employer, even if I myself was confident that I was fit. See the difference? On those occasions, the question whether I have a good selfconfidence could thus be answered with a "yes" as well as a "no", depending on what you mean.

While I am at the subject - what would make things even worse, is that I will normally NOT have the...motivation to try and prove my abilities. Feels like selling out sort of, and I can hardly stand it.

So, is this a typical INTJ thing? Any of you experience the same division on selfconfidence, and the uninterest in marketing yourselves?

Looking forward to your input on this.

Best,

jaykay

[slut poacher]

a lot of people have a knack for bullshit. a lot of people buy into this.how many people have you seen who claim to be an expert at something and suck at it.how many right on girls have you seen get sucked into relationships with silver tongued douche-bags?there is a definite correlation between social and professional success and bullshit.my success with the ladies is limited but my professional success is solid.my professional success comes from good credentials and a complete lack of modesty,you cant be afraid to let a prospective employer know that you are the only candidate worth considering,because a bullshitter will be doing this very same thing."the bigger the lie the more likely they are to believe it" overselling yourself is a good way to prevent finishing second.

[blueback]

Who is going to put "in black and white" that you are fit for the position?

If you don't do it, why would anyone else?

Part of dealing with other people is understanding that they are assuming you are overselling yourself. So, if you don't oversell yourself, they think you're actually capable of far less then you really are. If you oversell yourself they will get a good impression of what you're really capable of.

All you have to do is talk about how you love a "challenge" and how you are focused on the future.

[slut poacher]

good point on the challenge angle. i can see it working well without coming across as too aggressive. i have done well with my approach professionally,does the the same soft sell approach work on a personal level.

[Cyrus]

Perception management. I once had this tendancy to think, "heck, if i'm good enough, i'll wait for people to call attention to me. People should be able to see it". WRONG.

If you're hunting for a job. Chances are you're meeting with lower mgmt or HR. They aint gonna see squat if you dont put your best foot forward. The discreet, perceptive observers and good thinkers are all on top or moving there.

Always always always put your best foot forward, but first _place yourself in the mind of the other person_. "What is he/she looking for? How do I cater to that?" Adapt. Being who you are all the time doesn't work all the time. Honesty works. Being brutally honest doesn't.

Who is going to put "in black and white" that you are fit for the position?

If you don't do it, why would anyone else?

No kidding. I concur.

[jaykay]

Hey, thanks for the replies so far.

Well, I reason similarly, and I pretty much do what you suggest in those situations, or as some people on the forum express it, I put on my ENTJ mask (I found the "work" part of this forum after posting).

I was not asking for advice on how to get a job though, sorry if I was unclear, I just picked the job interview situation as an example.

What I would like to know is if this basic feeling - that I really hate having to market myself towards others in order to "gain" - if that is something I have in common with other INTJs, i e if it is a typical INTJ trait?

Best,

jaykay





jaykay added to this post, 18 minutes and 18 seconds later...

Brilliant replies though (just re-read).

[AntimonyLegault]

Self confidence tends to make people percieve me as arrogant and annoying ^^.
Which is why I usually don't say much about religion, politics etc, the N part of INTJ just goes too far for some people in those areas.

[blueback]

Probably. I definitely feel that way, but mostly because I don't like the idea of depending on anyone else for anything. If I have to convince them of something, then I must need something from them, which is an uncomfortable position for me to be in.

[jaykay]

AntimonyLegault - yeah, tell me about it

blueback - thanks, spot on.

Plus I really dislike sales talk, period, it's so off-topic, and the thought of engaging in it is repugnant to me.

Anyway, interesting to see that there also are INTJs that are able to take a more practical/pragmatic stance on this matter.

[Umbrex]

I can see where you're coming from, and i have sorta the same problem. When it comes to skill and knowhow i am extremely confident in what i can and cannot do.
That's just confidence in ones own skills as i see it. Knowing ones inherent qualities however is nothing like your self confidence in relations to other people. That's where i fail also; interpersonal relations. I read someplace that INTJ's tend to scare people of, or tend to not give into the ordinary chit chat, giving them an awkward presentation which, if not handled well, can cripple one socially to larger or lesser extent, which then in turn reflects back on who you are and how you react in social situations.

What has worked for me is simply not giving a damn about the interpersonal relations and evaluations, relying on getting the self confidence boost from outside the interpersonal arena. Focus on whatever hobby or whatever else one might excel at.

Self confidence is primarily gained in the social arena, and since that is one place where the INTJ's doesn't stand out, i'd say there were two ways of doing it: Sell out and explore the interpersonal surrounding or be yourself focusing on the intrapersonal qualities which in time will manifest itself as stabile traits which real persons will appreciate.

Hope u might use it - Umbrex

[Splittet]

Let me quote To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. :

To outsiders, INTJs may appear to project an aura of "definiteness", of self-confidence. This self-confidence, sometimes mistaken for simple arrogance by the less decisive, is actually of a very specific rather than a general nature; its source lies in the specialized knowledge systems that most INTJs start building at an early age.

I think that sums it up perfectly.

[jaykay]

Umbrex and Splittet, thanks.

I think you are both really spot on with the distinction pointed out between confidence in ones skills and self confidence in relation to others. Splittet, I have read that quote before, but actually missed that point in the sentence (i e what INTJ selfconfidence is typically not), it really hits the mark.

Umbrex - I do go about the way that you suggest, and it does give a selfconfidence boost. However, in relation to others it will be most effective if the time span is rather long. If short time span, the other person will not have the time necessary. And at times I have issues with this, i e whether to just not mind, or whether this is to be viewed as an opportunity unnecessarily lost. I get a bit annoyed over the inefficiency of it all. On the other hand, when moving into the ENTJ-area at will, it will mostly leave me with a bad taste in my mouth. A dilemma that I will either sort out, or just have to live with.

Tak/takk,

jaykay