Ideal picture of your partner

[Charly09]

I have read in one of the type descriptions that INTJs tend to have a picture of an ideal partner/partnership in their head, which might interfere with real life.

Do you have a picture of an ideal partner? How does it look like? Does it interfere with reality? How do you fix that problem in your head?

Personally, I can somehow relate to this. I noticed that I have that urge to be (at least to feel) really close with someone. Yet I run into a problem, because I also need the feeling of independence and I have a need to spend time alone. Not all partners have understanding for such, on the outside, contrasting needs.


So what is the solution? Find the right partner, e.g. an INTJ with the same needs, or fix the problem in my head. If so, how to do this?

[dalidaisy]

Sure, this is true. Not one of my SO has ever measured up to the idea of a mate that I have in my head. I've tried settling for ones that measure up mediocrely, but it just doesn't work. Luckily, I have found an INTJ who is quite perfect compared to the idea in my head. Sure, there are some things about him that don't fit exactly (who ever really could?), but they are more than acceptable, as the idea in my head is not the rule.

I really have no advice for you, as we all have to come to things in our own way, but finding another INTJ has been great for me. I can be as independent & weird as I wanna be...

[dandylion]

Everyone does.

[ptrout]

I think either solution works. Finding the right ideal partner is harder, than lowering/adjusting your standards. But be careful, know what works for you. One of the worst things you can do is try to change that person into your ideal. It makes them feel unwanted as themselves, and you get frustrated from failure to make them perfect.

[Charly09]

Hey dalidaisy,

I have seen your thread about INTJ finding INTJ on the forum. It reads like a fairy tale. If you are one of those brave INTJs knights, which you seem to be, you find happiness in your life. I like the concept, and I am really glad for you both. :)

..but forgive me, being an INTJ, I have of course some additional thoughts in the back of my mind. I am wondering how would such a relationship work in the long run (I am still not sure if my ex-wife might have been an INTJ, actually). My first impression about INTJs, from the information I gathered from the forum, is that INTJs can be quite cold and distant, yet there seem to be other really warmhearted individuals. I might be seen as cold from the outside as well, but I do definitely prefer the loving and caring side (in my closer circles). So I am not sure, if it will always work out with an INTJ, per se. It might, as always, very much depend on the individuals, and there seem to be big differences amongst INTJs. Still, I am really curious, but also a little bit afraid, about meeting a real, "branded" INTJ in real life, which I am in the process of. I think I prefer to interact with real people, to an extend ;-), so I just want to get a "feeling" how they/we really are.

Still, what about that ideal in my head, should and can one adjust it?





Charly09 added to this post, 10 minutes and 8 seconds later...

ptrout, I think you are right, it will quickly lead to the point where nobody feels appreciated anymore. The question for me is, how can I change this very passionate feeling for closeness inside me, and learn to be able to appreciate the way my partner shows closeness.


I have this idea in my head, that many INTJs might have this hidden need for closeness, but for the strange reason of "being INTJ", they can't live it. If this is true, I would like to know why that is.

[dalidaisy]

..but forgive me, being an INTJ, I have of course some additional thoughts in the back of my mind. I am wondering how would such a relationship work in the long run (I am still not sure if my ex-wife might have been an INTJ, actually). My first impression about INTJs, from the information I gathered from the forum, is that INTJs can be quite cold and distant, yet there seem to be other really warmhearted individuals. I might be seen as cold from the outside as well, but I do definitely prefer the loving and caring side (in my closer circles). So I am not sure, if it will always work out with an INTJ, per se. It might, as always, very much depend on the individuals, and there seem to be big differences amongst INTJs. Still, I am really curious, but also a little bit afraid, about meeting a real, "branded" INTJ in real life, which I am in the process of. I think I prefer to interact with real people, to an extend ;-), so I just want to get a "feeling" how they/we really are.

Thanks for the well-wishing...

Let me just say that, though Shinqui & I are both rather cold individuals on the outside, we do have soft mushy middles, just like most people. We are not identical, by any means. What I mean to say is that I'm not "dating mysef", as some people like to say about an INTJ/INTJ relationship. We have our own unique differences.

Also, we don't sit around glaring at each other when we are together. We are affectionate & loving to each other when we want to be. We also like to take breaks from each other to recharge. When we have been together, there have been times when one of us just needs space & what's cool is that the other understands, backs off & is not offended in any way. It's very refreshing.

Now, there is a reason that I am with Shinqui & not some other INTJ. I hope this is understood. Shinqui & I are uniquely well matched for many reasons. You certainly need to find someone who compliments you. I do not suggest finding anyone with an INTJ label on them & assume they'll be a good match. The thing about INTJs (as a whole) for me is the level of understanding. And, understanding is something I've been seeking my whole life. You may want something totally different.

As far as your ideal in your head, change it or set it in stone, it's really your decision. Anything is possible. I will say that something I've learned in my 35 years is that my tastes change. My "ideal" mate when I was 18 is completely different from now.

Maybe you should throw out that ideal altogether & just date. See what's out there. Decide what you like & what you don't. Then, when someone comes along with those qualities you like in aundance, try out a relationship & see if it works. You never know...

[Prunesquallor]

It's fine to have an ideal, so long as you don't feel entitled to getting it and completely ignore the consequences of your choice. You have really high standards, your chances of finding a person goes down. Simple. It also helps to know what is negotiable and what isn't. And to use it properly - not as a set of standards to impose on and expect from someone, but as a sort of a guide to judging people without the absurd expectation that anyone's going to be perfect. Basically if you don't confound your ideal with your expectations, then you probably still have reality in mind, which helps.

[Charly09]

Thanks for the well-wishing...
As I have said, the fairy tale has a happy end, and it says they live happily together for the rest of their lives.

My doubts were of course directed towards myself. From what you have written, you seem quite happy and content with the relationship you have developed with Shinqui, which is different from what you have experienced so far, and which I am sure is the basis for a solid and long-lasting relationship.

[dalidaisy]

As I have said, the fairy tale has a happy end, and it says they live happily together for the rest of their lives.

My doubts were of course directed towards myself. From what you have written, you seem quite happy and content with the relationship you have developed with Shinqui, which is different from what you have experienced so far, and which I am sure is the basis for a solid and long-lasting relationship.

Which I am relating to you to show that it is possible to find something perfect (or close to it), if not quite the ideal in your head. It can happen without even looking for it...

[WaeV]

No, I do not hold a concept of a perfect partner in my head.

[BostonIan]

From personal experience, and reading these boards, it seems that pickiness is a common thread, and may play a part in our relationship left-handedness.

Me personally, I have no trouble tossing out a way of thinking where it's not working, but I've found that sometimes there's nothing to replace it. With women, my natural mode is what I jokingly call "the executioner", where even very appealing women don't survive my snap-math summation of them. But, when I tried to drop that mindset, the new way was more "whatever, get me a mail-order bride, I'll marry anyone."

I haven't figured out a balance yet, but, at least in "executioner" mode, I did bite and chase hard on the rare occasion that someone met my qualifications. Maybe the trick is to be brutal in the selection process but then drop the judgments once the relationship forms.

[Charly09]

.. so if I have that ideal in my head, that my partner should be a person who "gets me" and is kind of close to my feelings and thinking, but on the other hand I realize that this is an ideal which can't be really fulfilled, because I know as an INTJ I do isolate, and my partner tells me that she can't get close, because I isolate. My INTJ-ness tells me something is not right here, which makes me believe the whole ideal concept might be just wrong. Yet, I have that very emotional need for closeness, and hell, I don't want to live alone. How can I tell my brain: hey big grey thing, you should do some rewiring here and you shouldn't expect, what you can't give. May be it is not an INTJ problem at all, just my own weird way.

[dalidaisy]

.. so if I have that ideal in my head, that my partner should be a person who "gets me" and is kind of close to my feelings and thinking, but on the other hand I realize that this is an ideal which can't be really fulfilled, because I know as an INTJ I do isolate, and my partner tells me that she can't get close, because I isolate. My INTJ-ness tells me something is not right here, which makes me believe the whole ideal concept might be just wrong. Yet, I have that very emotional need for closeness, and hell, I don't want to live alone. How can I tell my brain: hey big grey thing, you should do some rewiring here and you shouldn't expect, what you can't give. May be it is not an INTJ problem at all, just my own weird way.

Explain how you isolate. Are you saying that you close yourself off from accepting the feelings of your partner? Or are you saying that you literally go away, so that there is no way for your partner to get close to you? OR, are you saying that you isolate YOUR emotions so that your partner doesn't know how you feel & thus cannot get close?

Another thing, are you & your brain somehow seperate? Have you compartmentalized your emotions as such that they cannot communicate with your logical self?

What part of the problem is it that you want to change & what changes would you make if you could?

Sorry, I do better at helping with asking questions...

[Charly09]

I guess I do all what you mentioned. It didn't used to be like that. We had a whale of a time before we moved together. I guess, family structures can make things complicated.

I am sometimes thinking about that disconnect between brain and soul, if you like. A borderline schizotypic personality is always a possibility. I would like to believe that it is a problem I share with others too. ...and if i think about it again, the big grey brain thingie was supposed to be funny :laugh:


I am trying to change things at the moment, I try to sit down and openly discuss problems with my partner, which I believe is the best way to deal with problems. It is an amazing insight if you realize the other is having the same problem, but coming from a different angle.


I think the disconnect between ideal and reality, is something inherent of the INTJ-ness, and might be overcome, if I am able to further develop from Fi into Fe. Just not sure how, the concepts are still new to me.

[jakeordie]

Your post reminds me of that Cake song Short Skirt, Long Jacket.....my ideal picture includes traits that I'm certain are mutually exclusive if not entirely contradictory. These traits are less important than the "not-negotiables", and I've learnt that by focusing on real women the ideals seem less beautiful by comparison.

[Rudy]

I have a collection of favorable traits for a SO in my head, but I can't say that I've ever crystallized them into a idealized woman.

[Rho1334]

I find if you throw you preconseptions out the window you can amazing love in the weirdest places. I like Rudy don't really have a set idealized women. I have a general idea what I like but that is about it. But without the stigma to work out you meet some amazing people, beautiful people with some neat ideas.

[Quite8the8bell]

There are some things that I just love in guys but I realize that it would be foolish of me to wait or even search for a guy with those traits and expect him to like me for one, and for me to like his personality... Deal with whatever I get I suppose. Currently I don't even care about a relationship, it's simply to me a waste of time.

[Vagrant]

My ideal personality for a woman shattered with my ex mindfucking me.

So I really only have an ideal look now, and frankly, there's a lot of alternatives perfectly acceptable to me.

[McD]

My idea partner:

1. Has her own goals
2. Is not clingy
3. Is independent
4. Can take sarcasm
5. Is intelligent
6. Let's me have my 'me' time to pursue my intellectual interests or joins me in pursuing those interests
7. Is financially responsible
8. Has emotionally healthy friends

Do you think I'm asking for too much? :)

[Ekagra]

Charley09!

Carl Jung tells all -- do a search on the anima/animus projection.

[Freedom Geek]

My ideal partner is an attractive INT girl who does not want to have children, a transhumanist, a pro-science type and a libertarian. Of course lacking in major negative traits such as religious fanaticism. Also probably a few thing I can't think of/describe right now. I want to shoot fairly close to this goal, after all I'm going to be with this person for the rest of my (possibly hundreds of years long if medical technology keeps progressing) life.

[alphawolf]

A woman with the body of Aphrodite and the brains of Madame Curie; can stop traffic with her ass as well as speak authoritatively on a wide range of subjects. A lady in public and a whore in the bedroom. 100% feminine and secure with her gender identity, no question about it. Establishes her areas of power in the home and guards them fiercely, but expects and needs to be ravaged and dominated in the sack. Demands that the only "pussy" in the house is between her legs, e.g. won't tolerate beta male behaviour (Men's Sex-Dominance Inhibition: Do Men Automatically Refrain From Sexually Dominant Behavior? (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)).

[vanidence]

Interesting thread.

A person who is smart; can care for themselves, but is not a complete egoist (meaning: able to compromise where it is needed); strong personality; able to do things by themselves (aka *no 24/7 stickiness*); equality; interested; caring, but not overly-emo; creative; able to try new things, but doesn't need to do EVERYthing; interesting; good at talking (silly, deep, educational); supportive without being brainless; dependable; loyal; trustworthy; honest / direct.

[potsic]

Of course (at least to me) the most important thing is having someone who has similiar mental abilities as you. Like someone like your family in that you either love or hate em, someone like that is important. Next all I would really care for is someone who has an open mind and is reasonable. Thats the gist of it

[AceBrown]

I'll start.

A woman with the body of Aphrodite and the brains of Madame Curie; can stop traffic with her ass as well as speak authoritatively on a wide range of subjects. A lady in public and a whore in the bedroom. 100% feminine and secure with her gender identity, no question about it. Establishes her areas of power in the home and guards them fiercely, but expects and needs to be ravaged and dominated in the sack. Demands that the only "pussy" in the house is between her legs, e.g. won't tolerate beta male behaviour (Men's Sex-Dominance Inhibition: Do Men Automatically Refrain From Sexually Dominant Behavior? (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)).

I love that line lol

I want my partner to ultimately be a compliment to me. Someone who I can talk to, share my ideas/goals with, and someone who I can learn from. Body-wise, slender form with a nice ass...but more importantly, a beautiful face that I can see myself waking up beside every day. I want her to be family oriented, warm, trustworthy, and sorta hard-to-get. It makes getting her all the more rewarding. :-)

[MikeC]

mutual attraction; shared values, outlook, sense of humour and sense of permanence. Loyal, and perceptive of my mood and intuition. Must also be able to live with my guitars. :)

[Xanthippe]

I think I may have thought this through too well:

Mental/personality
- needs to be an introvert, but confident and able to be charismatic in social settings
- intelligent
- preferably, someone in a related but different field of academia
- definitely well-read and an N
- emotionally intelligent, but keeps emotions fairly private (no PDA, preferably)
- open-minded and able to understand the way my mind works
- independent, honest and self-aware
- can push me to be more spontaneous/open/fun

Lifestyle
- not a smoker
- libertarian, and not a member of an organised religion
- interested in theatre and music performances
- cares about taking care of himself, stays in shape
- has interesting friends
- likes to travel, but only occasionally
- good manners, especially when eating (pet peeve, you know...)
- clean, neither a neat freak nor a total slob

Physical/Sexual
- taller than I am, leanly muscled
- nice eyes
- little to no facial hair
- the sort of handsome face that also ages well
- willing to dominate
- willing to try new things
- willing to cuddle occasionally, but never in public

Yeah, not gonna happen...

[MikeC]

I think I may have thought this through too well:

Mental/personality
- needs to be an introvert, but confident and able to be charismatic in social settings
- intelligent
- preferably, someone in a related but different field of academia
- definitely well-read and an N
- emotionally intelligent, but keeps emotions fairly private (no PDA, preferably)
- open-minded and able to understand the way my mind works
- independent, honest and self-aware
- can push me to be more spontaneous/open/fun

Lifestyle
- not a smoker
- libertarian, and not a member of an organised religion
- interested in theatre and music performances
- cares about taking care of himself, stays in shape
- has interesting friends
- likes to travel, but only occasionally
- good manners, especially when eating (pet peeve, you know...)
- clean, neither a neat freak nor a total slob

Physical/Sexual
- taller than I am, leanly muscled
- nice eyes
- little to no facial hair
- the sort of handsome face that also ages well
- willing to dominate
- willing to try new things
- willing to cuddle occasionally, but never in public

Yeah, not gonna happen...

so youre of those types that wants to date gods... ;)

[dalidaisy]

I think I may have thought this through too well:

Mental/personality
- needs to be an introvert, but confident and able to be charismatic in social settings
- intelligent
- preferably, someone in a related but different field of academia
- definitely well-read and an N
- emotionally intelligent, but keeps emotions fairly private (no PDA, preferably)
- open-minded and able to understand the way my mind works
- independent, honest and self-aware
- can push me to be more spontaneous/open/fun

Lifestyle
- not a smoker
- libertarian, and not a member of an organised religion
- interested in theatre and music performances
- cares about taking care of himself, stays in shape
- has interesting friends
- likes to travel, but only occasionally
- good manners, especially when eating (pet peeve, you know...)
- clean, neither a neat freak nor a total slob

Physical/Sexual
- taller than I am, leanly muscled
- nice eyes
- little to no facial hair
- the sort of handsome face that also ages well
- willing to dominate
- willing to try new things
- willing to cuddle occasionally, but never in public

Yeah, not gonna happen...

Heck, I have something very similar to this. There are a couple of items that I don't agree with and/or don't fit, but I can honestly say that it can happen. Just don't go trying to steal him, k?

[The Maelstrom]

so youre of those types that wants to date gods... ;)

which kind is the question ;)

The Greek God Quiz is there for that!

[pip]

Cake
- Want to be with me & like me for who I am
- Complete loyalty
- No silly mind games
- At least halfway intelligent
- Have unlimited desire for cuddles :p

Icing
- Physically attractive (cute & curvy)
- Not a smoker
- No children or desire for same
- Can give me a run for my money on various video games :p

[Xanthippe]

Heck, I have something very similar to this. There are a couple of items that I don't agree with and/or don't fit, but I can honestly say that it can happen. Just don't go trying to steal him, k?

Don't worry :p But it's nice to know it's possible, at least!

As for Greek gods, well...most of them seem to be just as screwed up as humans are, on a bigger scale! However, the physical image is, in fact, based on some Classical sculptures...

[Valielen]

This is what I have at home and I'm pretty happy. I'll steal Xanthippe's format.

Mental/personality
- Extrovert but not outgoing. Gets his recharge through work. Prefers to stay in but very charming in social settings. Amazes me how he can make my introverted friends feel at ease.
- Expertise in a field of engineering
- Practical
- Loves to read and we have slightly different tastes that overlap
- Emotionally stable, able to read my emotions pretty well
- Open-minded and understands the way my mind works
- Independent, honest and self-aware
- Non-draining company
- Caring and thoughtful
- Selfless. Will dash into danger without thinking twice to help someone (much to my horror).
- Respectful of me

Lifestyle
- not a smoker
- Atheist and Libertarian
- cares about staying healthy, strong and fast
- has very few good friends
- likes to travel to similar places as me
- borderline clean freak

Physical/Sexual
- taller than I am, leanly muscled
- handsome youthful face
- willing to dominate and be dominated
- willing to try new things
- likes to cuddle, hug

Bonus
- Able to do general repairs to appliances, house, cars and other random things

I never actively looked for someone with half of these characteristics. Just didn't disreguard him because I always kept in my mind that my pre-formed judgement could be wrong since the voices in my head aren't always right. Turns out, not everyone that is charming and good looking is a player.

[Baccara]

I do have an ideal in my head. (Not much choice, since pickings are pretty slim up in my neck of the woods). However, I also have an over-active imagination, so going into depth about said ideal would take up too much time and space; but basically I look for a gentleman. Key traits are intelligence, honesty, imagination, discretion, and maturity. The only aspect I don't keep in mental file is a physical ideal; that changes depending on my mood or inspiration.

[Analytical]

What do you look for in the opposite sex? Is it all looks? MBTI type? Which MBTI type do you think is most focused on looks only? Do you have a specific MBTI preference and why? What are some compatible and incompatible combinations?

Just new and trying to get a feel for stuff I guess :)

[SelfMadeBum]

Looks aren't that important to me but I must be physically attracted to the guy.

I like intelligence, confidence, inner strength and compassion in a man.

I tend to be attracted to fellow INTJ's but I don't really rank according to type, though I prefer I over E. With the others I have no real preference.

I'm not that knowledgeable about compatible/incompatible pairings.

[curiousgeorge01]

Intelligent but grounded, beautiful but non-pretentious, sweet yet straight forward. That is my dream woman.

I think ENFx probably are most focused on looks (sorry!) because I think they care more about outward appearance.

Don't know who's compatible, there are a lot of jerks out there of all types!

[Ragansy]

well first attraction yea i think looks and style are important to me. thats just for initial attraction tho. i am very much concerned about personality and adaptability though. i always want to be trying something new or going somewhere new. i need someone who would accept that along with the many crazy ideas i come up with.

long term wise i need a girl who no matter how many times i have seen her naked i still check her out when shes clothed. also being a nympho is a huge plus.

call it petty if you want, but thats def things i look for. by no means tho do i not give people a chance. i think theres something interesting about everyone and want to find out what it is.

[MikeC]

the je nous se qua factor. it could be physical or the personality, or a bit of both. I tend fall in love twice a day, so take it with a grain of salt ;)

[MissENFP]

I'm kind of backwards for an ENFP in that I appreciate a person's looks but ultimately that isn't what attracts me. The men I have liked the most are those who's personalities and character originally attracted me, then who's looks grew on me.
I would have to say that over time I've noticed that I am ultimately drawn to INTJs and INFJs...don't know why. Maybe because they are so different, they sort of balance me out or something...

[Ragansy]

I'm kind of backwards for an ENFP in that I appreciate a person's looks but ultimately that isn't what attracts me. The men I have liked the most are those who's personalities and character originally attracted me, then who's looks grew on me.
I would have to say that over time I've noticed that I am ultimately drawn to INTJs and INFJs...don't know why. Maybe because they are so different, they sort of balance me out or something...


i get ya there, and i agree different is very important. maybe its just me, but i worry that i am too assertive sometimes in trying to break them from their norm, and by no means do i ever want someone to feel as tho i am trying to change them or control them. i won't stand for it when i see someone else trying to control someone let alone do it myself. like i said tho i over think things all the time.

[khadi]

shared values, self-awareness, intelligence, humility, and style.

[BostonIan]

I judge a ton by outward appearance, but largely from the instinct I get from reading that appearance. Attraction, health, physical, mental features get summed up in a blink and signal either "approach" or "avoid".

Interesting is, I've been dabbling on a dating website lately where pictures lead to profiles which lead to MBTI results. Making the first click for initial attractiveness, the pictures have been leading me to INFJ's and ENFP's, some INFP's. I seem to have a bias.

All theoretical at this point, I'd also pursue different types for practical reasons. INTJ's might be a good mental connection, xSTJ's seem suited to marriage, ISFJ's to child-rearing.

[runoverazebra]

I won't lie and say that looks don't matter, but they are certainly not the most important thing. There has to be some physical attraction, but I have found that it doesn't have to be all that strong if there are other qualities to compensate. Those qualities nearly always help me find someone more physically attractive.

Some qualities that always catch my eye: wittiness, intelligence, and straight forward.

I don't usually base things off of MBTI type, but I do have a history of being attracted to INTJs and ENTJs.

[cheekyjez]

What I always wanted from a partner was a co-conspirator - someone with a sense of mischief who could come up with brilliant, off-the-wall schemes.

My wife and I saw Up over the weekend, and I think Ellie and Carl's relationship really felt like ours. Before she died.

[DanteFalling]

Sigh, if only Tesla were still alive, he and I could enjoy ignoring each other and then make some sparks.;)

[rickster]

I once made up a shopping list of what I was looking for in a dude when it was all the rage. I listed all the must-have qualities and attributes, but as the list grew it was perfectly clear I was describing Jesus Christ. Now, scrawny Jewish guys with long hair are kinda cute, but the likelihood of meeting a god-like man is kinda remote. The regular two-legged variety with a shitload of flaws seems a logical choice.

It's bad enough to have a picture in your mind - what's even worse is to have the frame already in place. Like..."Here's my frame - let's see if I can jam your picture into it".

Loving, and falling in love, IMO is letting someone's magic turn me on to a new picture. I'm always up for a surprise, and a major revision of what's "my type" usually pays off.

Who cares if your partner is profoundly stupid when something like their kindness makes your heart sing?:cool: