What is love?

[tadatanome]

My (probably now ex-) girlfriend says I am using my classification as an INTJ as an excuse to accept the way that I am and not make efforts to change. She of course refuses to take the test herself.

Some of the problems she believes I have to work on.
- My lack of sensitivity to her need for emotional support
- I place little importance on what she thinks of me
- I never really make sacrifices for the sake of other people

How much should we fight against our natures in order to maintain a love relationship?
For that matter - what is "love" for an INTJ?

[Kfbr]

We don't always have to hide behind classification and there's always room for improvement. I've had the same things brought up in relationships - distant, cold and blunt.

Love for me isn't the set of a romantic comedy with flowers and sappy music and rainbows coming out of my ass. I had it once, and I realize it only too late, but love for me was always looking forward to being with her and dropping whatever I was doing to be around her.

All the failed relationships since I grow tired of girls easily and would rather be working. Hindsight is 20/20 right?

Also, obligatory..

BABY DON'T HURT ME! DON'T HURT ME! NO MORE..

[WavesSootheMe]

My (probably now ex-) girlfriend says I am using my classification as an INTJ as an excuse to accept the way that I am and not make efforts to change. She of course refuses to take the test herself.

Some of the problems she believes I have to work on.
- My lack of sensitivity to her need for emotional support
- I place little importance on what she thinks of me
- I never really make sacrifices for the sake of other people

How much should we fight against our natures in order to maintain a love relationship?
For that matter - what is "love" for an INTJ?

You've listed what she thinks you lack but what do you think you do well? How do you feel that you make your intentions clear? How do you show her that you care about her and value having her in your life in an intimate capacity?

[tadatanome]

but what do you think you do well?

I turn up on time for dates. Does that count?

I live in Iran now but I grew up in the west so she likes that I'm not chauvinistic and i can cook. But in terms of her emotional needs and the needs of our relationship... I guess I'm dependable, I listen well when my own emotional needs don't get in the way. I try to give her confidence in herself and give her new ideas and new ways to look at her problems and issues.


How do you feel that you make your intentions clear?

That's an ambiguous question. I'd like you to elaborate.


How do you show her that you care about her and value having her in your life in an intimate capacity?

I'm a physically affectionate person. I like to hold hands, massage, hug. I've recently managed to adopt a pet name for her (after a year together)...

Caring about her for me means wanting her to be happy and helping her days to go by smoothly and enjoyably. Valuing her - well, these days I believe I could get on fine without her though there was a time when my love for her was 'hot', full of need, full of wishes for the future. Now I'm much cooler. I want her in my life but friendship is more important to me than constant companionship now.

Ideally I would like to see her and speak with her less but still feel like I could hold her hand and sometimes spend the night with her. This is of course the way I would like the relationship to be - to suit MY needs. And this is what irritates her. She feels that I'm not concerned about HER needs. And being accused of being selfish hurts - especially when there's some truth in it.





tadatanome added to this post, 4 minutes and 54 seconds later...

All the failed relationships since I grow tired of girls easily and would rather be working.

I can relate very strongly to that. I've been practising a lot and getting better at it but talking to her on the telephone - talking on the phone PERIOD - often strikes me as a big waste of time. Problems don't get solved on the phone. Issues don't get resolved.

Are there any of you out there in relationships in which your partner gives you just the right amount of solitude?

[Sevs]

This always reminds me of :

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

But basically i can tell when I am in love because if i really am in love than that person is the ONLY person i am willing to make sacrifices for / are sensitive towards and do care what she thinks of me so basically for me as INTJ love is when there is someone i feel / and treat different than anyone else.

[Hdier]

About the phone thing-it may not make much of a difference to you, but for some people who are a bit more emotional, it is easier to say something over the phone or in writing. Not all people can become as detached as we can when the time calls for it.

[MetalWounds]

I'm usually very unemotional and rational toward people. LatleybI've noticed a tell-tale indicator of when im falling for someone; I get an urge to do "bad" things. I do crazy and irrational things that make absolutly no sense in retrospect, and I can't remember why I did it or deciding to do it in the first place. Does this happen to anyone else out there?

[OneBadMother]

Yeah, I get a bit irrational and obsessive when I fall for someone. After a while it dissipates, though, and I'm left comfortably neutral again.

[PortInStorm]

When I'm in love, I'm willing to do unpleasant things for them, I care about not embarassing them, I feel badly when I've been selfish (and hey, even that I take the time to discern whether I have been selfish or not), I put myself out there and risk rejection, I seek them out (unlike most other people, except maybe a new friendship), I make a point to remember the little things (like what they said they'd do at work).

Be careful that you don't interpret your cooling off, your need for space, or some selfish acts as an innate flaw in the relationship. Selfishness, coolness and space inevitably creeps into any relationship (ie. when she told you your flaws, did she ask if there was anything she could change for you? Did she admit that she must bug you, or that there are some needs of hers that will undoubtably go unmet so you can be happy too? If not, then some selfishness is shown on her behalf too). You have to evaluate a relationship in terms of what will not fluctuate and change, most likely ie. the morals of the person, how they interact with your family, if they're looking for the same kinds of things out of life... etc. Emotions change, once an emergency happens, or you go without them for a while, they flare up again if love was ever there in the first place. It's called perceived intimacy, and the longer you're with someone, the more it goes down. But it's a completely different construct than REAL intimacy ie. you can feel distance but in reality be very close. Your perceived intimacy comes into line with real intimacy when you lose them, or go without them for a while etc. So maybe try a break, and if your real intimacy turns out to be as low as you FEEL, then.... This concept is from Sternberg, I believe, of the Sternberg love triangle (passion, commitment, intimacy are the three sides that, according to the length/amount of each component, create a differently-shaped triangle).

[StoneAgeINTJ]

Hey Metalwounds

Read Carl Yung on "shadow". As your persona emerges into a love relationship so your shadow, or dark side, matches that energy with an opposite energy. It's basic physics, embrace it

[MetalWounds]

Hey Metalwounds

Read Carl Yung on "shadow". As your persona emerges into a love relationship so your shadow, or dark side, matches that energy with an opposite energy. It's basic physics, embrace it

hmm...that's quite interesting, and I'm defintly reading up on that. I defintly feel a "dark side" thats for sure, it's a little unnerving at times as well.

[The Rose]

My (probably now ex-) girlfriend says I am using my classification as an INTJ as an excuse to accept the way that I am and not make efforts to change. She of course refuses to take the test herself.

Some of the problems she believes I have to work on.
- My lack of sensitivity to her need for emotional support
- I place little importance on what she thinks of me
- I never really make sacrifices for the sake of other people

How much should we fight against our natures in order to maintain a love relationship?
For that matter - what is "love" for an INTJ?She's an SJ, right? ESFJ or ISFJ?


We should all learn to be less selfish and be more empathetic.

I hate jumping through all the hoops. I've done it before and I felt like I didn't know who I was anymore after so long of following rituals just to keep my friend happy.

[Ytterbium]

I have never been good when coming to feelings or showing them for that matter. I have loved females in my life without them knowing. I have never really spoke with them either, just kept distance, suppressing my feelings. I could not handle them because they were not logical, they were strange and frightening. It became more of a hostility what was really love at first sight. Even when females have shown interest in me, I have done nothing about it. Because I thought it can't be true. What shall I say what shall I do, was the questions I asked myself. I thought I will do it if I get a better opportunity. It never came, I never said anything. Somewhere inside of me all I wanted to do was to cuddle and to show that she was most precious thing in my life.
I'm an asshole.

[MetalWounds]

I have never been good when coming to feelings or showing them for that matter. I have loved females in my life without them knowing. I have never really spoke with them either, just kept distance, suppressing my feelings. I could not handle them because they were not logical, they were strange and frightening. It became more of a hostility what was really love at first sight. Even when females have shown interest in me, I have done nothing about it. Because I thought it can't be true. What shall I say what shall I do, was the questions I asked myself. I thought I will do it if I get a better opportunity. It never came, I never said anything. Somewhere inside of me all I wanted to do was to cuddle and to show that she was most precious thing in my life.
I'm an asshole.

I can't tell you how much I relate to that. That is almost an exact picture of the way I was before I joined the military. Now things are a little better but those feelings are defintly still there. Even as I fall in love with a woman part of me "falls in hate" with her at the same time. It's confusing but I've been able to adapt and overcome and find myself almost...almost being able to interact in what would be concidered a "normal" way with a woman that I begin falling for.

[Ytterbium]

I can't tell you how much I relate to that. That is almost an exact picture of the way I was before I joined the military. Now things are a little better but those feelings are defintly still there. Even as I fall in love with a woman part of me "falls in hate" with her at the same time. It's confusing but I've been able to adapt and overcome and find myself almost...almost being able to interact in what would be concidered a "normal" way with a woman that I begin falling for.I felt the same when I was a conscript. The few females there where "one of us", I didn't think of them as females at all. So I talked with them like any other person. Then we had common things to talk about too.

[tadatanome]

Be careful that you don't interpret your cooling off, your need for space, or some selfish acts as an innate flaw in the relationship.

wise words but i think the damage may already have been done. It's ironic that, while at teh same time as suspecting myself of being overly selfish, I could have been so blind to my own need for recuperative solitude.


It's called perceived intimacy, and the longer you're with someone, the more it goes down. But it's a completely different construct than REAL intimacy ie. you can feel distance but in reality be very close. Your perceived intimacy comes into line with real intimacy when you lose them, or go without them for a while etc..... This concept is from Sternberg, I believe

You're right about the importance of differentiating those factors in a relationship that are subject change as opposed to those factors that are more stable. But I am interested by this concept of "intimacy" as you relate it. Does anyone have any recommended online reading about Sternberg's theory? I live in Iran so specialist books are hard to get hold of.





tadatanome added to this post, 57 minutes and 26 seconds later...

She's an SJ, right? ESFJ or ISFJ?

she refuses to take the test because she doesn't want me to classify her. But that's been helpful because it's forcing me to think for myself about what she could possibly be.

She's definitely IxFx - she might be INFP for her individuality, spirituality, creativity, ability as a listener, sense of justice.

But then again she could be ISFJ because of her sensitivity to the behaviour of others, powerful emotions and firm judgments of others.


I felt like I didn't know who I was anymore after so long of following rituals just to keep my friend happy.

Now that I've spent a couple of days not speaking to her I feel that I am finding myself again a little bit. For the last couple of months I have for some reason been ignoring some of the things that were once so important to me. I started smoking again for instance, stopped doing yoga and taichi, started eating meat again.

I know it's only been a couple of days but now that I have allowed myself to stop worrying about what she thinks of me for not calling etc..., I am paying more attention to my own needs again and I feel like I am finding myself again.

"Following rituals", "jumping through hoops" - very apt descriptions of the many things that I felt that I had to do to keep the relationship going but did not come naturally to me.

I think it would take a very resourceful human being to both understand my needs and not expect from me the things I find very difficult and unnatural.

[PortInStorm]

Google "Robert J. Sternberg" or his book "Cupid's Arrow: The course of Love through Time". He says (pg. 36 and 37) that emotion is only experienced in a relationship when something's unexpected. Therefore, emotion is rich and varied in the beginning when you don't know what to expect from the other- everything is a surprise. But the more you get to know each other, the more hidden intimacy there is, but the less perceived/felt intimacy (because there's no more surprise, no "interruptions" as he calls it). You don't feel the intimacy, so you don't know if there really is any. He says the way to tell is to create these unusual moments, interruptions, or absences (like taking away the air we take for granted will very quickly tell you how necessary it is to you).

[Hdier]

Out of curiosity, have you ever been without oxygen? I will sometimes choke myself to see what it would be like. The first time I tried it was a real metaphoricall eye-opener.

[WavesSootheMe]

Ideally I would like to see her and speak with her less but still feel like I could hold her hand and sometimes spend the night with her. This is of course the way I would like the relationship to be - to suit MY needs. And this is what irritates her. She feels that I'm not concerned about HER needs. And being accused of being selfish hurts - especially when there's some truth in it.

I think the problem with this conflict is that, often times, solitude isn't seen as a need by others. Many girls will take it to mean that you don't want to see them, rather than you need some time to yourself. It's a hard thing to explain to someone that doesn't feel such a need. Ultimately, you have to strike a sort of compromise. What's the least down time you need and what's the least interaction that she needs? In some cases, sending a short message on days that you don't get together or talk on the phone helps. That way she at least knows that you thought of her.

Are there any of you out there in relationships in which your partner gives you just the right amount of solitude?

Bit of a different perspective since I'm a girl, but here's my response: Most of my relationships have been at a distance of an hour or more or with someone that's incredibly busy (like a first year law student). I think I'm drawn to these sorts of relationships because they have built-in independence. The funny thing is, most guys are so conditioned to think that girls need more that they don't believe that I'm not upset about only seeing them once a week and not speaking to them every day (I, too, hate the phone).

[PortInStorm]

Out of curiosity, have you ever been without oxygen? I will sometimes choke myself to see what it would be like. The first time I tried it was a real metaphoricall eye-opener.
Really? No, I just fainted lots as a kid, so I don't fancy the passing out part.

As for the built in independence, I thought about this a while ago. I used to stew about my husband being gone working etc. so much, then thought: "Would I want it the other way? No time to myself? Him forever reaching over to kiss and hug like Peppy LePew?", and realized I chose him because he was like this. I had another boyfriend who was always into talking, romantic gestures, etc., but that was way too much. I like it this way better, because I get a chance to miss my husband, and lots of time to do my thing, and he doesn't say anything when I disappear for hours to do whatever.


I hate the phone too. Everyone has to email me, or they don't get a hold of me.

[Hdier]

I don't choke myself long enough to pass out, just enough to help me remember that there are certain things-such as air-that I tend to take for granted, but shouldn't.

[Paul V]

To me, love is a lot of things:

It's feeling a part of that person with you wherever you are.

It's feeling like you've finally found that sliver of yourself you always knew you were missing.

It's knowing that you'd gladly subject yourself to the most painful tortures or the most gruesome death in order to keep that person safe.

It's knowing that if that person died, a part of you would die as well.

It's thinking about them every day, because they've become a part of your life. And they've done that without you noticing.

Alas, I've never felt it before. I can only imagine. Perhaps I'm being too unrealistic, which is why I doubt true love exists.

[quentin]

I've experience limerent crushes, but I can't say I've ever experienced genuine love. One problem is with our language: "love" is one word that covers several different emotional states. The love of a mother for a child is obviously very different from a schoolboy crush.

To me, genuine love is something that develops slowly over time as a person becomes more and more integrated into your life, and becomes a part of you. This requires genuinely knowing a person - their faults as well as their virtues. When people generally talk about "falling in love", that rush of romantic feeling, they aren't talking about real love, they're talking about infatuation. Romantic infatuation happens quickly and inexplicably. Love takes time.

[Ytterbium]

^ True quentin. English have more or less lost it's original sense. From English "love" is mostly translated as "like" in movies subtitled here. As "love" in my mothertongue is a very strong word and feeling. We have a very mild use of super latives etc for that matter. So it's very cultural also. So if someone from here says (s)he likes you it does not mean (s)he's just being polite and thinks you are a retard. But that person really care for you very much.

[Hdier]

To me, love is a lot of things:

It's feeling a part of that person with you wherever you are.

It's feeling like you've finally found that sliver of yourself you always knew you were missing.

These two seem very similar, would you mind clarifying the differences?

It's knowing that you'd gladly subject yourself to the most painful tortures or the most gruesome death in order to keep that person safe.

I have to agree with this one, extremely accurate.

It's knowing that if that person died, a part of you would die as well.

But what about recovory?

It's thinking about them every day, because they've become a part of your life. And they've done that without you noticing.

I have always thought of falling in love as 'finding a part of yourself', under that definition, would that mean that they had been a part of you your whole life, without you noticing it?

Alas, I've never felt it before. I can only imagine. Perhaps I'm being too unrealistic, which is why I doubt true love exists.

I don't think that you are being unrealistic, just idealistic. A fine, subtle, yet important, difference.

On the other hand, your definition is remarkably similar to mine, so I may be a little bit biased in your favor.

[Hdier]

I'd simply say that love is rare these days, mostly because many people don't want to find it (all the things that you mentioned), and people either don't recognize or run away screaming when they find it.

[BlackHawk]

Love is knowing in your heart (feeling, then, i suppose) that:
-as long as you show commitment, you will be forgiven for what you do wrong
-you want to spend hours upon hours with him/her
-you will always be understood and accepted for who you are
-you will be encouraged to reach new heights in your inner development

[luther]

And let's not forget the fact that I probably won't find someone that just clicks with me. Someone that knows what I'm talking about and doesn't require explanations. Logic tells me that getting my hopes up with so many odds against me is foolish.

It took me years, but I found someone like that. I'm ENTJ and she's INTJ. It's amazing and worth waiting for.

I'd simply say that love is rare these days, mostly because many people don't want to find it (all the things that you mentioned), and people either don't recognize or run away screaming when they find it.

Yes - I've noticed that people run away from love. Why do you think this happens?

[Hdier]

I think that many people do not want something that deep, it requires a commitment beyond any vows you may take. I believe that if you are truely in love, empathy for the other person will be taken to a new level, and a bond will be formed. People don't recognize what is happening, but realize that something is happening, and humans are naturally scared of the unknown (hence being scared of the dark). Thus, many peoples first reaction would be to run away, and they do not have the willpower to overcome this instictual reaction, or they do not wish to.

[luther]

That's an interesting explanation. I'm still trying to understand it. So people realize that something is happening but are not sure what is happening? What does that feel like? What is going through their minds?

[Antares]

Coming from someone who doesnt know the subject very well at all, I think that if you truly care for her, show it (I don't know what rights have I to be telling you this, seeing I find this exceeding difficult to do myself). You don't have to do it often, but if your partner is insecure, it's best to reassure them every once in a while. To me, love is an unconditional but well-meaning. Possessive love, to me, is not love, but an obssession. It is selfish. I agree with the biblical description of love (It's the ideal kind of love, but highly implausible) even though I'm aware that it's hard to do. I have yet to love someone more than I do myself and I love only one unconditionally (but even as I say this, I don't know what might change this emotion, so don't take my word for it). I was being quite a feeler in the previous paragraph.

If you want a less sappy and romantic definition, it's a chemical reaction in the brain. It's all chemistry, brother :thumbsup:

The Science of Love (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)

[luther]

Yes, I find that showing love helps a lot. Those are the times when the other person's walls begin to come down.

It's actually the times when I insisted on being a servant despite the other person's objections that I think she felt very loved.

But those opportunities are limited. When someone's running away and puts up physical barriers so you can't get through, it's difficult to know how to meet that person's needs. That's one reason why I'm trying to understand how my particular person feels. I don't have direct access, and it's quite possible that she doesn't completely understand herself herself. (Nice double word usage, eh?)

[rwyatt365]

There've been some good responses and input to the question of "What is love?", but what of the question of "change for the sake of love"?
My (probably now ex-) girlfriend says I am using my classification as an INTJ as an excuse to accept the way that I am and not make efforts to change. She of course refuses to take the test herself.
…
How much should we fight against our natures in order to maintain a love relationship?

Now, I'm all for growth and change, but (isn't there always a but?) how far should one go to achieve that growth? Indeed, how far can one go (in the long-term) and sustain the changes?

Several posters here have commented on the need for "alone time". What if your partner refuses to accept that need of yours, should you change to accommodate your partner? And if you do change, can you sustain that indefinitely? I've had the inevitable, "If you love me, then…", guilt trip thrown at me more than a few times and I resent it immensely! I understand the concept of compromise, and I'm willing to embrace it – IF it truly is a compromise, where both parties meet somewhere in the middle. My experience has been, however, that "compromise" means, "You have to stop doing what I don't like…and like it".

It also pisses me off royally when others say, "You're just afraid of change". No, I'm afraid that you are trying to mold me into your own image without regard for my individuality. I'm afraid that you disregard who I am and what I'm about for your own selfish motives. I'm afraid that I will go stark raving mad trying to be who you want me to be. My question in response is, "If this thing that I do (which is precious to me) is so detrimental to you, why do you want to be with me?".

I mean, if I was in an intimate relationship with a person that loves blue and I hate blue, then I would have to ask myself, "Why am I with someone that does something that I hate?" Should I ask them to stop loving blue because I hate it, or should I just leave the relationship if blue bugs me that much? If blue is fundamental to their "self" then I have no right to ask them to change for my sake. In fact, IMHO, I should be the one to change to accept their "blue-ness".

That's just my take on this aspect.

[Aurelia]

wise words but i think the damage may already have been done. It's ironic that, while at teh same time as suspecting myself of being overly selfish, I could have been so blind to my own need for recuperative solitude.

For someone who doesn't understand the need for solitude, it is important to let her know approximately how much time you need to recharge. A friend of mine with a strong feeling preference said that initially when her boyfriend wanted space, it meant something was wrong in the relationship or a breakup was inevitable. While explaining your need for space reaffirm your relationship and let her know when you'll see each other or talk to each other again. This way there is less of a chance she'll misinterpret the distance.

[PRBori]

To me, love is a lot of things:

It's feeling a part of that person with you wherever you are.

It's feeling like you've finally found that sliver of yourself you always knew you were missing.

It's knowing that you'd gladly subject yourself to the most painful tortures or the most gruesome death in order to keep that person safe.

It's knowing that if that person died, a part of you would die as well.

It's thinking about them every day, because they've become a part of your life. And they've done that without you noticing.



I agree with you.. in addition...

for me when I love someone I want nothing but the best for them

Is knowing that you can count on that person on good and bad times
Is knowing that they will fight for you and stand up for you in times of adversity
Is knowing that no matter how far they are, they are respectful towards you
Is knowing that although they are busy, they take time just for you
Is knowing that when you talk about the relationship you can look each others into your eyes and see the trust built within
Is knowing that the person understand you intimetely without you saying much
And most importantly is being able to communicate easily without constantly arguing and giving each other space

I think when those are achieved in a relationship, you can say that LOVE has grown for there is mutual understanding of each others needs. Of course, I'm sure I could go on and on, but that summarizes what LOVE is.

[Colette]

That's just my take on this aspect.

Great post - I agree with everything you say. I am now at the stage in my life where I am relatively secure, confident, and successful, and I simply refuse to become involved with a person who wants or expects me to change who I fundamentally am, what I enjoy, what I do, or say, or think, in order to be in a relationship with them.

I claim the right to be myself, and my values hold that in being myself, I do not hurt or injure others, and I try to treat others as I'd like to be treated myself. Thus, I feel secure in the right I claim to live life on my own terms.

[PortInStorm]

I've never understood how a person who claims to love you would put their preferences ahead of yours (the antithesis of love) andask you to change something that's integral to you. Doesn't that say more about the quality of their love than yours? This would only apply if the offending characteristic was integral, not say, missing the laundry basket with your socks.

Just a quick comment on the "hole" that perhaps love fills. Warning: I've found that's too big an expectation to put on a significant other. The relationship can become strained and buckled by the weight of trying to completely fill that hole. My faith fills that, personally.

[rwyatt365]

I've never understood how a person who claims to love you would put their preferences ahead of yours (the antithesis of love) and ask you to change something that's integral to you. Doesn't that say more about the quality of their love than yours? This would only apply if the offending characteristic was integral, not say, missing the laundry basket with your socks.
Oh, but people often do. "If you love me, then..." is the catch-phrase of relationships - asking "you" to accommodate "my" needs in the name of love.

Just a quick comment on the "hole" that perhaps love fills. Warning: I've found that's too big an expectation to put on a significant other. The relationship can become strained and buckled by the weight of trying to completely fill that hole. My faith fills that, personally.
To me, love should not "fill a hole". A hole in one's life, or emotions cannot be filled with love. As you say, that is too much of an expectation (or burden) to place on another person. It's like asking someone to "make me happy", or "entertain me". I have now relegated that person to a trained performer - an actor, there to fulfill my emotional needs. In turn, then, I should expect that person to ask for payment for services rendered.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

I'm usually very unemotional and rational toward people. LatleybI've noticed a tell-tale indicator of when im falling for someone; I get an urge to do "bad" things. I do crazy and irrational things that make absolutly no sense in retrospect, and I can't remember why I did it or deciding to do it in the first place. Does this happen to anyone else out there?
It depends on what the 'crazy irrational things" are, but it may have something to do with attempting to evoke a fight or flight response in yourself.





vaguely dissatisfied added to this post, 5 minutes and 0 seconds later...

I think alot of the problem lies with both an expected societal norm for 'acting' in love, as well as, an expected societal norm for how a male should act when he is in love and how a female should act when she is in love.

[Colette]

Oh, but people often do. "If you love me, then..." is the catch-phrase of relationships - asking "you" to accommodate "my" needs in the name of love.

To me, love should not "fill a hole". A hole in one's life, or emotions cannot be filled with love. As you say, that is too much of an expectation (or burden) to place on another person. It's like asking someone to "make me happy", or "entertain me". I have now relegated that person to a trained performer - an actor, there to fulfill my emotional needs. In turn, then, I should expect that person to ask for payment for services rendered.

I feel I should warn you that are currently in the position of filling an existent 'hole' in my life - that of the Methuselah, or wise sage ;)

[Solaris]

Quote:
It's thinking about them every day, because they've become a part of your life. And they've done that without you noticing.
I have always thought of falling in love as 'finding a part of yourself', under that definition, would that mean that they had been a part of you your whole life, without you noticing it?

The original quote by Paul V and Hdier's reply really stuck out to me. I can attest to the part about somebody becoming a part of you without you noticing. I am on familiar terms with love, and this type is hard to find, but it exists, imo. I also agree that some people are, in some way, a part of you your whole life, even before you met them. Those are the people, in whatever capacity they enter your life, that have the deepest impact.





Solaris added to this post, 4 minutes and 22 seconds later...

I've never understood how a person who claims to love you would put their preferences ahead of yours (the antithesis of love) andask you to change something that's integral to you. Doesn't that say more about the quality of their love than yours? This would only apply if the offending characteristic was integral, not say, missing the laundry basket with your socks.

Just a quick comment on the "hole" that perhaps love fills. Warning: I've found that's too big an expectation to put on a significant other. The relationship can become strained and buckled by the weight of trying to completely fill that hole. My faith fills that, personally.

@Italicized part: I completely agree. I had a relationship in which I found myself having to be "enough" for two people all of the time. As strong as I am, I could not do this to myself. I could not condemn myself to that, because I knew a future full of bitter resentment lay down that road.

@Bolded part: I found faith after the relationship referenced above. Faith would not have fixed that relationship, but it will make future ones that much better.

[Parallel]

The only ones I would consider as people that I "love" are a very few number of people, mostly family members because it's easier to accept their faults since you kind of have to.

I do "love" my two best friends that I've known since pre-school/middle school probably because I have complete faith that I know exactly who they are and they know exactly who I am. And since we understand each other I never feel like their quirks or habits are untolerable or annoying.

On the other hand, it's almost impossible for me to "fall in love" with a guy because I realize that I keep rationalizing myself out of getting into a relationship. And once someone does something i find kind of annoying or has some quirk that really isn't so bad but just bothers me I tend to try and find the fastest way to get rid of them. This is so bad, I know. I don't know how to get out of it and it really bothers me that almost everyone bothers me.

[Solaris]

On the other hand, it's almost impossible for me to "fall in love" with a guy because I realize that I keep rationalizing myself out of getting into a relationship. And once someone does something i find kind of annoying or has some quirk that really isn't so bad but just bothers me I tend to try and find the fastest way to get rid of them. This is so bad, I know. I don't know how to get out of it and it really bothers me that almost everyone bothers me.

I do that. When I subconsciously am ready to leave a relationship, I have discovered that I start nit-picking about stupid, annoying habits they have. Then I sabotage things, and am able to ignore the real problem. Since I know I do this, I now stop and look for what the real problem is, and address it.

So is love me correcting the ones I love, or not correcting them? I don't know.

[rwyatt365]

I feel I should warn you that are currently in the position of filling an existent 'hole' in my life - that of the Methuselah, or wise sage ;)
That's almost as bad as the first time a "kid" called me "Mister" (and wasn't being a wise-ass). :embarassed: :undecided:

I shall now retire to my hermitage and contemplate my navel...

[vaguely dissatisfied]

My question is this.........

If someone you love appears completely unaware of what your needs are and acts whatever way makes them most comfortable and happy with no regard to your needs, is it unloving or selfish to ask them to change?

[Solaris]

My question is this.........

If someone you love appears completely unaware of what your needs are and acts whatever way makes them most comfortable and happy with no regard to your needs, is it unloving or selfish to ask them to change?

Probably this is not something you want to hear, but have considered on some level. To me, this behavior, or expression implies two people that don't "go together" very well. I left a relationship because I realized that the man I was with, and I, just didn't go together. Nothing was wrong with either of us, we just don't go together. People seem to have such a hard time with this. Why is it that people must find some huge fault in another in order to leave a relationship? I don't understand this. It's ok to realize that you don't go together. Maybe I'm not explaining this well.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

Probably this is not something you want to hear, but have considered on some level. To me, this behavior, or expression implies two people that don't "go together" very well. I left a relationship because I realized that the man I was with, and I, just didn't go together. Nothing was wrong with either of us, we just don't go together. People seem to have such a hard time with this. Why is it that people must find some huge fault in another in order to leave a relationship? I don't understand this. It's ok to realize that you don't go together. Maybe I'm not explaining this well.
No........I get you all too well. I guess for me the deal is that I have a history of failed relationships. What's the common denominator? Me. So I second guess myself alot because I don't trust that I know what I'm doing. If I say to myself, "Well, we just don't go together." The next thought is, "Or is this your usual sabatoge technique?"

I've never really put any effort into any previous relationship so I'm very much naked on foreign ground. I just don't trust that I know what's really going on because I have this 'run away' attitude.

[Solaris]

No........I get you all too well. I guess for me the deal is that I have a history of failed relationships. What's the common denominator? Me. So I second guess myself alot because I don't trust that I know what I'm doing. If I say to myself, "Well, we just don't go together." The next thought is, "Or is this your usual sabatoge technique?"

I've never really put any effort into any previous relationship so I'm very much naked on foreign ground. I just don't trust that I know what's really going on because I have this 'run away' attitude.

You're right, you understand perfectly. What you wrote sounds eerily familiar. Sometimes I hate that my brain is so able to rationalize everything. But then, when I don't, I make even worse decisions. Argh.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

You're right, you understand perfectly. What you wrote sounds eerily familiar. Sometimes I hate that my brain is so able to rationalize everything. But then, when I don't, I make even worse decisions. Argh.
Well........I've decided to take it to a third party expert, put my damaged psyche on the chopping block, and let a counselor hack away. At least I'll know I did everything I could and didn't just bolt. Also, I'll get an unbiased opinion about my so-called rationalizations.

[Solaris]

Well........I've decided to take it to a third party expert, put my damaged psyche on the chopping block, and let a counselor hack away. At least I'll know I did everything I could and didn't just bolt. Also, I'll get an unbiased opinion about my so-called rationalizations.

Congratulations. That's a difficult thing for anyone to do. I hope, in one way or another, it gives you positive results.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

Congratulations. That's a difficult thing for anyone to do. I hope, in one way or another, it gives you positive results.
I'll definately let you know.