Help - my ENFJ has shut down all communication...

[Charly09]

It looks like our miscommunication went on for too long. My ENFJ has completely withdrawn emotionally and doesn't even want to talk anymore. When we talk we immediately fall into the bad routines and it quickly ends up with both of us ready to explode and walk away. It seems all the shadow sides have come out now. I have that urge to talk about emotions and our relationship and want to feel very close to her. I think I overreact emotionally. She turned bitter and withdrawn. I tried to show her my affection and readyness to improve things several times with no reaction. I got some small stuff for valentines and for our anniversary, she didn't bother. I had expected some sort of re-affirmation of our relationship. It really hurt me.

I need to become clear what to do about it, work on our relationship or walk away. It makes me mad. I have to think about it literally all day long. She said earlier I'd play an abandonment game and she needs more stability. Yet, I need to be able to somehow deal with our problems. May be I was doing all the wrong INTJ stuff for just too long. Do I experience the same thing from the other side now?

Do you have any suggestions how I can approach an ENFJ appropriately in such a stage to open her up again so that we can simply talk. I have all these fantasies about how to approach her in a very emotional way, but I fear I will just do the wrong thing. Any idea would be appreciated.

[Zsych]

Don't panic. Say you want to work things out. Recreate experiences from when you enjoyed being with eachother, to remind her what she enjoys about being with you. Be casual, and don't let it become a big issue, don't let yourself feel emotions that will lead to you contributing to the situation going bad.

[Hwangdda]

It would help if we knew what types you and your girlfriend were. ENFJ or ENTJ? INFJ or INTJ?

In any case, can you pin-point a specific event which caused her to shut you out? If so, you may be able to work it out. A single event can trigger anger, but it may be easier to mend. If it was progressive, walk away. Chances are, if it took an extended period of time for resentment to stew, then the problems are many, and it'll be nearly impossible to patch things up. People don't change over night.

[Henry]

It looks like our miscommunication went on for too long. My ENFJ has completely withdrawn emotionally and doesn't even want to talk anymore. When we talk we immediately fall into the bad routines and it quickly ends up with both of us ready to explode and walk away. It seems all the shadow sides have come out now. I have that urge to talk about emotions and our relationship and want to feel very close to her. I think I overreact emotionally. She turned bitter and withdrawn. I tried to show her my affection and readyness to improve things several times with no reaction. I got some small stuff for valentines and for our anniversary, she didn't bother. I had expected some sort of re-affirmation of our relationship. It really hurt me.

I need to become clear what to do about it, work on our relationship or walk away. It makes me mad. I have to think about it literally all day long. She said earlier I'd play an abandonment game and she needs more stability. Yet, I need to be able to somehow deal with our problems. May be I was doing all the wrong INTJ stuff for just too long. Do I experience the same thing from the other side now?

Do you have any suggestions how I can approach an ENFJ appropriately in such a stage to open her up again so that we can simply talk. I have all these fantasies about how to approach her in a very emotional way, but I fear I will just do the wrong thing. Any idea would be appreciated.

I'd take one stab at a conversation "things seem to be distant between us, what can I do to improve our relationship", wait a few weeks, and if there's no improvement then I'd move on. If she's marginally into the relatinoship and you "talk" you're either doing something ridiculous, or she's likely to set some terms that are ridiculously in her favor.

Don't project your problems as coming from being an INTJ. That is and will come off as projecting and excusing away your faults onto something outside yourself.

[Charly09]

Sorry, it is INTJ and ENFJ.

It accumulated over a period of 2 years, we never found a solution for our problems so they came back and back.

Try and stay calm is a good idea, but I feel there is a vulcano inside me, which I can't control very well at the moment. This is a reason why discussions become heated from both sides. Sometimes I can resist and not say what I actually want to say, but it doesn't seem to work too often these days.

[Zsych]

So what are you arguing about? Also - couples counselling is always a good thing.

[Pandemonium]

Cheating.......the relationship is over.

[Charly09]

We have started counseling a couple of month ago, unfortunately we started to late with the MBTI. Now that we can easily explain some of our bad communication and with plenty of advise to improve the relationship, I need to talk about it with her. But I feel there is lots of resistance. It is the not-wanting to talk about it and keep it under the rug again, which annoys me. I made some constructive proposals, but mainly criticism comes back. Otherwise I still have a couple of unanswered e-mails.

Is it me? Should I respect that she is not ready to talk because she is in the ENFJ "shadow mode". Would it be wiser, if I just wait a week or two without wanting any response at all, or should I say I will stay away for a week and then we can talk again? I guess I will have to immediately start with meditation or something.....(at the moment I am thinking more about a beer or two)

[NoStoneUnturned]

1. I read somewhere that ENFJs work on a hierarchy. For example, anyone they see above them they will give all the time in the world to. However, anyone they see below them they treat like dirt and have no time for... If you ever get put on the low end it can be hard getting out of because of the way they deal with their intuitive-judgmental-feelings, blindly trusting them.

2. When given a problem ENFJs like to brush it under the rug... maybe it might be that your the problem at this point.


I would move on, the relationship doesn't seem cost-effective anymore.

[Zsych]

Time to prove your natural superiority in every possible sense it seems :P

I'm inclined to say that we need samples of discussion for analysis. Not to say that we can definitely help.

Personally, emotional people worry me. Hard to reason with.

[NoStoneUnturned]

Sorry, it is INTJ and ENFJ.

It accumulated over a period of 2 years, we never found a solution for our problems so they came back and back.

Try and stay calm is a good idea, but I feel there is a vulcano inside me, which I can't control very well at the moment. This is a reason why discussions become heated from both sides. Sometimes I can resist and not say what I actually want to say, but it doesn't seem to work too often these days.

Oh, I didn't read this part. If your arguments turn into hate talks I, an INTJ, wouldn't even deal with you.

[Charly09]

hmmm, not sure what hate talks are for you. I am not getting out of control that much, don't you know these heated couple discussions, where none really listens and everyone tries to get his/her arguments in. I more likely get sarcastic - my defense weapon since I am fourteen.

I am also worried by these emotional overreactions, I sometimes don't feel like an INTJ. However, our counselor said it is just my inferior function coming through. Well, I'd like to believe that.

[Josephine1012]

May I ask if you are married to her? Do you have children? Are there things aside from mutual like/attraction that are holding you together?

You're a little ambigous about what lead to things becoming this way, did she voice concerns in the past that you've ignored? How did it come to this? It's not always all MBTI, perhaps you're ignoring something you don't want to see? Pondemonium brought up cheating (on her part) is that a possibility? It sounds like you're the one who is making all the effort whereas she is looking for the way to end things (I'm sorry if it came out harsh).

Why do you want to work things out so badly? Is it inertia and fear of starting fresh?

[Zsych]

Or that there are things about her that he likes?

Anyway, what issues are you guys really arguing on? What are your different viewpoints?

[Charly09]

yes you may, we are married and her 2 kids are living with us.

Sure, I could walk out of the relationship/marriage and easily start something new. The enchantment of a new relation is very attractive, but then after a couple of month or may be even after years face the same problems again? I am surprised how quickly people, including myself, think about this option. May be it is an age thing, but getting older, I think why not invest a little bit of work in a relationship, why not face the challenge of relationship problems. I believe it could make me/us grow. Besides, I do have this feeling that I might be in love with her, or whatever you call that feeling when you are still strongly attracted.

I think I don't want to go through all the details, how it all came about, even our counselor felt exhausted after 10h of talking about that stuff :-).

I would still like to know how to approach the ENFJ (I actually think she is rather a P, at least the F-T, J-P disconnect seem to describe our situation best currently), if he/she has emotionally shut down. (I don't want to believe anyone is cheating at this stage). Josephine, would you as an ENFP know about the do's and don'ts for an INTJ, when things have gone this far?

Zsych, your initial advise not to panic and to calm down was good, and being able to contemplate a bit on this forum helped me to feel calmer and more in control of my inner confusion. Thank you

[jcb]

take some time from one another. i.e. do not see one another for some time, except to see the kids if you're close to them.

sometimes it helps to get to a place where you miss one another enough to talk about your issues in a reasonable fashion.

people do often give up on relationships too easily. there is no perfect fit for anyone, regardless of what anyone might say - everything takes effort.

its admirable that you want to work on things.

your situation sounds very similar to mine. good news though, after 6 months of separation from my wife (after a 15 year relationship), we have just gotten back together :) so things can be sorted out.

[Charly09]

I am glad to hear that you came back together. To achieve this after 6 month of separation to me is a sign of a balanced character and high integrity. I think you are setting a good example

[Josephine1012]

I guess my original line of questioning came from how I usually approach relationships. I'm a really loyal partner and I generally make every effort to work things out as long as I still see a possibility. What you described sounds like the end of my relationship with an INFP (not INTJ).

I stopped trying because I became emotionally detached, I became emotionally detached because I realized that it wasn't going to work. After I made that decision no amount of effort on his part made any difference. I never actually cheated, but I became emotionally involved with someone else about 2 months before I was ready to say the words of it's over.

As for Do's and Don'ts:

-Don't get overly emotional. I want all the information, that is I would want to know that you care, but I wouldn't want to know that you would jump off a bridge if I didn't. If you say that, it makes me feel guilty, and then after some time of evaluation it makes me feel resentful.

-Do listen if she is saying something. Try to remain detached enough so that you don't miss the parts you don't want to hear. Ask her questions if you disagree with the way she sees things and don't immediately say they aren't true.

-Don't accuse her of things: "you never do...." "you always do...." that makes me not want to hear the rest because there is a "never" and "always", there is just a specific example.

-I know it's hard but do give her some time to reflect without telling her over and over how much you miss her.

In the end it takes 2 people to work things out, no matter how hard YOU try it won't happen if SHE doesn't. She needs to decide that she does, that means giving her the information and letting her make the decision and come to you with it is probably the best way to go.

I like the idea of separating for a bit, to sort of collect your thoughts and trying it again once all again once it all settles a little.

Disclaimer: Keep in mind, I've never been married and I don't have any kids. So my advice comes from a person who is trying to make sure that I don't make a serious commitment such as marriage or children to someone who isn't compatible with me. I'm more inclined to move on when things go sour because I idealistically hope to find someone who is perfect for me.

[rain]

Do you have any suggestions how I can approach an ENFJ appropriately in such a stage to open her up again so that we can simply talk. I have all these fantasies about how to approach her in a very emotional way, but I fear I will just do the wrong thing. Any idea would be appreciated.

Just talk to her. Simply say that you miss her and want to work things out. People are surprisingly human when you're honest with them! :)

[NoStoneUnturned]

yes you may, we are married

Oh, I didn't know you were married. I wouldn't listen to me here...

[DanteFalling]

My ENFJ did this for three months (after I broke up with him, so he had a semi-valid reason). Almost three months to the day he sent me a msg saying he was sorry for his immaturity.

Sometimes they need time.

Let them be emotional. I would suggest honesty in that you mention you miss her.

Don't get into all of the little issues right away.

Just reestablish the relationship and that you care.

[Zsych]

Considering that you know her better than us. Seriously think about meeting her, and what you would like her to be feeling at the end of the meeting. Then think about what you could say or do to get to that, and all of the things that could happen that would stop you from getting to that. Spend some time and map out all the contingencies and your responses to them. If the conversation starts going down a path you don't want, how can you bring it around, or mitigate so you can then change the conversation to something you prefer. If you're fairly well prepared, you'll probably also feel more comfortable.

... Use your INTJ-ness :)

[Charly09]

Thank y'all for your personal advise and kindly sharing your experiences.

We have separated from bed and board. I listen to your advise that a little separation might lead to a future chance for better understanding.

I need time too, and I need to get away from my emotional reactions. Zsych, I like the idea using the INTJ-ness in this arena. Never really thought about it as such a challenge. I could start make a list :-)


Josephine, Thanks for the do's and don'ts. You're right, I need to focus a bit on her needs and what she really has to say. It is actually a lot of stuff I am afraid to hear or to be true, or have trouble accepting it in my life, so I argue about all these small irrelevant things.

As you and DanteFalling pointed out, may be after a while I will be able to reestablish the relationship, and show her that I care and support her needs.

[AntoniaDodge]

Bummer. :(

Another system of soft-science but an absolutely invaluable tool in one of my relationships was the book The Five Love Languages. Even when people have decent intellectual communication, sometimes what we see as communicating love may simply be crossing wires with the other person. The five languages are:

Verbal Affirmation
Acts of Service
Quality Time
Gift Giving
Physical Touch

If someone is a Gift Giver but another person is a Quality Time then all the small tokens of love (bringing home cards, etc...) are going to have far less significance to the receiver than the giver intended. I've observed many INTJs fall into the Acts of Service, Gift Giving and Physical Touch realm, whereas many ENFJs are Verbal Affirmation and Quality Time oriented.

It may not help, but it's an interesting read at least. Good luck with your ENFJ. They're great people and sweethearts through and through.

[Xackery]

My mom and dad are INTJ/ENFJ and are absolutely and positively in love with each other. They've been married for about 40 years, and talking to my mom about her past (When they got married) she did some crazy stuff. Some examples, my mom actually was really into this really hunky guy when they first were dating and such, even up to when they got married, but, ended up with my dad for "a reason she still doesn't understand". When they first got married, like, right after the honeymoon, my dad was shipped off to the military, and my mom was left to take care of the house and work a job to keep the place afloat etc.. She was soo pissed and ready to leave my Dad, but when he got home and was all buff and stuff from the military work, she forgave him. XD

There are quite a few events that I can think of as issues, such as my dad is a car nut and my mom said that he can only have 1 car or she'll leave him, and he did exactly as she demanded. (There was a lot of build up to that argument).

When you ask my dad about my mom, he says a lot of things I'm not sure I could ever say. Like, "What's hers is hers, what's ours is hers, and what's mine is hers".. xD He also says, "I'm the man of the house.... so long as she says I'm the man of the house.."

Now keep in mind with the above, my parents are absolutely and positively in love with each other. I'm only jealous how well they work together. So, be faithful and I suspect be ready to make a LOT of sacrifices for your ENFJ, but, at least in this case, the rewards were great!

[workingdays]

I have seen an ENFJ and INTJ in a relationship before, so some observations.

Basically the ENFJ reacted to 'signs of personal rejection' coming from an INTJ, although frankly the INTJ could have been clueless what signs they were. For an ENFJ could be when an INTJ makes themselves scarce to take care of their own needs (for isolation). An ENFJ who is lonely and does not have social company will then place all their needs onto the INTJ, who will respond in the sense, 'what is it you want me to solve for you?'. In other words, and ENFJ needs the 'feeling' type of empathy which would be hard to get from an INTJ.

ENFJ are always very sensitive to how they are perceived, and usually are able to quite reliably, make their situation optimistic all by themselves (they wouldn't brood too long). They understand by cutting off contact they are hurting you, but in a sense because they felt hurt first by some perceived rejection coming from the INTJ? Really, could be as something as innocuous as "You are not really doing this properly." about the dishes, or paying their bills or their relationships. They hate to have 'failed' in your eyes.

The best thing I feel in this sense, is not to let the situation get to the point of no return. They can become quite crazy in a rage or very cold once they cut you off forever. An ENFJ finds sometimes in a argument with an INTJ they feel themselves are the irrational crazy one- this doesn't make them feel good in the feeling sense, as they are the ones usually setting the mood- so they will escalate. However, what trumps this feeling value system is their need to be of use/make someone feel better.

By being respectful of their feelings and the way they express it, and also help them see the value and possibilities of the relationship- the untapped potential for growth for both of you, your common goals etc- will go far with and ENFJ. They are not called 'Teachers' for nothing. Appeal to their highest self. Most likely the ENFJ will apologise at some point when they have given rant to their feelings and felt understood. They are not fickle in their long term feelings for you.

However, if you want advice on how to 'socially act' around an ENFJ: say something reassuring and inclusive like, "We're in this together." during an argument. Smile often when they first come into the room: they like to be acknowledged. Praise some skill they are crazy about. Listen without interjecting how it could be done better. Externalise some aspects of your feelings for them. It would be sometimes easier to speak the other person's language at times.

:)

[Charly09]

Workingdays,
I think you are hitting the nail on the head. Thanks for the good advise!

I have looked up some strategies to improve the relationship myself and it is close to what you suggest. I have started to implement this advise, but I need to learn much more about her ( and me). Unfortunately, she is still in the raging phase, so whenever I say something nice I get back all the bad feelings about me, which she must have accumulated over a long period. I do understand her, and your suspicion is right, I actually did withdraw quite a bit (to cope with some other family problems). First I got depressive and in a second phase I tried to isolate to be able to cope.

Yet, another problem is that I am one of these wimpy INTJs (but I won#t let the alpha INTJs here know ;-) ), my numbers in the TJ compartment are quite low, so I guess I have quite a bit of FP traits too (if I understand the MBTI system correctly). Probably it is also the inferior function acting up under stress. If I get rejected I react very emotionally too and isolate even more and my feelings start raging in a similar way? I call it vicious cycle. As it stands, I myself am at the point of no return, but I am afraid I might regret it this time. Inside I see the path how to solve the problem in a INTJ manner, but if I am confronted in real life I react in a FP way, at least I guess.

Well, I shouldahave studied psychology when I had a chance. At least I would have already some better understanding about me, myself, and that INtj living with me.

PS Your avatar is interesting, is there a message in it?





Charly09 added to this post, 2 minutes and 16 seconds later...

should have asked what is the message in it

[Zsych]

I think hearing out all her objections might be a good thing. It gives you data, and she gets it off her chest.

My oldest and best friend (less so now, admittedly), is an ESFJ. I've had to sit through a moderate number of emotional lectures from him. If I'd reacted badly, I think our friendship would've died... Although I am a little surprised that he thinks I'm not hurt at all, by what he sometimes says.... btw, there's also usually good will (apart from other emotions), underlying those lectures, and I do recognize that also, which reduces the negative impact.

[Julia]

We have started counseling a couple of month ago, unfortunately we started to late with the MBTI. Now that we can easily explain some of our bad communication and with plenty of advise to improve the relationship, I need to talk about it with her. But I feel there is lots of resistance. It is the not-wanting to talk about it and keep it under the rug again, which annoys me. I made some constructive proposals, but mainly criticism comes back. Otherwise I still have a couple of unanswered e-mails. Counseling can be a good idea because it provides a third perspective that can reflect back the intent of each of your communication in hopes of straightening things out.

Is it me? Should I respect that she is not ready to talk because she is in the ENFJ "shadow mode". Would it be wiser, if I just wait a week or two without wanting any response at all, or should I say I will stay away for a week and then we can talk again? I guess I will have to immediately start with meditation or something.....(at the moment I am thinking more about a beer or two)Each situation is unique and so it is difficult to say anything definitively. Generally speaking I would say that once emotion has gotten carried away to the point of irrationality, it doesn't help to make big emotional displays. Once a person's mind is set into a certain mode it can't really be changed. In some cases I have tried to make generous and very concrete gestures to help mend a broken relationship. Saying positive things to the other person can help them to feel valued even if their accusations are not fair. I had a family relationship in which one member was strongly emotional and accused me of many unfair things. I could see she was overwhelmed, so I simply apologized and ask her how could I do better. It calmed things down. It is always best to discuss relationships when calm, I think.

There are also times when a relationship needs a reset button. This can involve being apart to let things cool down. If you want to continue the relationship and are not considering a break-up, then I suggest scheduling future meetings before you move apart. Maintain regular counseling sessions, perhaps have a family or dinner meeting planned in a month or so. The danger of backing away when there is emotional tension is that it can become harder to communicate, so it is best to have a way to get together planned ahead of time.

Ultimately a relationship takes two people wanting it to work. It can be painful, but if someone is pulling away and you do not want to separate, it might be best to communicate that you are willing to work and do what it takes to fix it, but you also respect whatever choice the other person wants to make.

I think hearing out all her objections might be a good thing. It gives you data, and she gets it off her chest.

My oldest and best friend (less so now, admittedly), is an ESFJ. I've had to sit through a moderate number of emotional lectures from him. If I'd reacted badly, I think our friendship would've died... Although I am a little surprised that he thinks I'm not hurt at all, by what he sometimes says.... btw, there's also usually good will (apart from other emotions), underlying those lectures, and I do recognize that also, which reduces the negative impact.
I have a great deal of respect for what you have said in this post. I have been in that same position, but possibly not to the same extent. It does hurt when someone makes unfair and negative judgments as a result of their own emotional processing and not because of the truth of a situation. At the same time, if you want peace and desire a relationship with the person you simply cannot mirror back the negativity or judgment. Recognizing that what is expressed doesn't necessarily match intent, and that they are dealing with their own cause-and-effect is enlightened.

[workingdays]

Workingdays,
I think you are hitting the nail on the head. Thanks for the good advise!
No problem, since the helping part gives me pleasure. :)

I have looked up some strategies to improve the relationship myself and it is close to what you suggest. I have started to implement this advise, but I need to learn much more about her ( and me). Unfortunately, she is still in the raging phase, so whenever I say something nice I get back all the bad feelings about me, which she must have accumulated over a long period. I do understand her, and your suspicion is right, I actually did withdraw quite a bit (to cope with some other family problems). First I got depressive and in a second phase I tried to isolate to be able to cope.

Hope things are better.. that your ENFJ is cooling off. Someone mentioned something about an ENFJ's shadow's mode as well.. Would be enlightening to know more about it.

I can't say that isolation is a problem that you have to change, since that tends to be default mode for introverts. Perhaps you need to better communicate your needs to her at times when your foremost priority is to go underground and withdraw- think of it as creating a 'warning system' for your ENFJ. Tell her its your coping mechanism and its not her fault. However, I'm not sure if she would take it nicely if she is still 'raging' at the moment.

Yet, another problem is that I am one of these wimpy INTJs (but I won#t let the alpha INTJs here know ;-) ), my numbers in the TJ compartment are quite low, so I guess I have quite a bit of FP traits too (if I understand the MBTI system correctly). Probably it is also the inferior function acting up under stress. If I get rejected I react very emotionally too and isolate even more and my feelings start raging in a similar way? I call it vicious cycle. As it stands, I myself am at the point of no return, but I am afraid I might regret it this time. Inside I see the path how to solve the problem in a INTJ manner, but if I am confronted in real life I react in a FP way, at least I guess.

haha. I'm actually an INFP with a weak 'F', basically sitting on the fence too. It's a misconception that INTJs feel less.

It would be best when someone reacts with rage against you, for you to control your 'reactive' feelings. I don't mean discounting your feelings. Someone can say a nasty thing but you could understand where that came from- the person is not in control of their feelings, they lost a job. You are doing very well in recognising that she probably accumulated these feelings over time. It's also admirable that you are consciously resolving these issues of reactive anger..

I suggest you try this 'tough' solution. Express 'love' towards the other person. Try to think of 'love' reaching from your soul towards the other. Do it as often as you can. Sounds like a load of hokum from the FP side(haha i know.), but my experience is that the world is a strange place.. Try this when nothing else works..

my avatar came with the forum... most of ones I liked better were taken. :) I do like the surreal aspects of it- tea party with ham hocks jus appeals to my 'Ne-ness'...

[Charly09]

When I joined the forum I felt sort of relieved to have found people with a personality which at first sight seemed similar to mine. After a couple of days I felt again like an outsider, I guess because of my FP traits. Is there an INFP forum as well? Well, today I have read a threat, with good response, from someone with problems controlling anger. May be there are more of "us" , the outsiders of the outsiders so to say, around.

Anyways, I am considering some sort of therapy to deal with my own mood swings which really seem to become a problem, if I am under permanent social stress. It wouldn't be a bad thing to improve my personality a bit. Afterall, studying psychology had been an consideration of me.

workingdays, how do you deal with your "sitting on the fence" situation. Are you as calm as your words imply. Do you tend to be stable in your relationship(s)?

[truthbeknown]

I guess my original line of questioning came from how I usually approach relationships. I'm a really loyal partner and I generally make every effort to work things out as long as I still see a possibility. What you described sounds like the end of my relationship with an INFP (not INTJ).

I stopped trying because I became emotionally detached, I became emotionally detached because I realized that it wasn't going to work. After I made that decision no amount of effort on his part made any difference. I never actually cheated, but I became emotionally involved with someone else about 2 months before I was ready to say the words of it's over.

As for Do's and Don'ts:

-Don't get overly emotional. I want all the information, that is I would want to know that you care, but I wouldn't want to know that you would jump off a bridge if I didn't. If you say that, it makes me feel guilty, and then after some time of evaluation it makes me feel resentful.

-Do listen if she is saying something. Try to remain detached enough so that you don't miss the parts you don't want to hear. Ask her questions if you disagree with the way she sees things and don't immediately say they aren't true.

-Don't accuse her of things: "you never do...." "you always do...." that makes me not want to hear the rest because there is a "never" and "always", there is just a specific example.

-I know it's hard but do give her some time to reflect without telling her over and over how much you miss her.

In the end it takes 2 people to work things out, no matter how hard YOU try it won't happen if SHE doesn't. She needs to decide that she does, that means giving her the information and letting her make the decision and come to you with it is probably the best way to go.

I like the idea of separating for a bit, to sort of collect your thoughts and trying it again once all again once it all settles a little.

Disclaimer: Keep in mind, I've never been married and I don't have any kids. So my advice comes from a person who is trying to make sure that I don't make a serious commitment such as marriage or children to someone who isn't compatible with me. I'm more inclined to move on when things go sour because I idealistically hope to find someone who is perfect for me.

wow, your description sounds like my ex gf and i'm trying to learn about these classifications of personality types. Wouldn't it be great if we could present a packet to our potential partners after we decide we're attracted to them and say, "okay, here i'm an _____ type and if you follow these guidelines you'll do well with me.

i made the mistake of telling my ex gf what i thought of her behavior after she broke up with me. I think because i'm the "feeling" type (not sure which one yet) and so i needed to tell her why she hurt me. I think that caused her to permently detach but just like you mention about the emotional affair to someone she was being secretive and i think doing that too. So how does a guy get close to you? knowing what your "type" is? and if the emotionally detached is just a piece of what happens to you, how can a man bond with you?

"I stopped trying because I became emotionally detached, I became emotionally detached because I realized that it wasn't going to work. After I made that decision no amount of effort on his part made any difference."

in other words, do you go back and reflect on the good times you had or once done, you're just done? i often wondered especially after meeting my ex 6 months after the break up and she still seemed to have a "charge" on me; meaning that she was not even able to see me as a friend or a regular person and ask how my kids were etc. She used the term "charged" to describe me talking about my ex one time. She seemed jealous in a way or like i wasn't paying her much attention even though she baited me into talking about her.

i used to wonder if she would reflect on how i treated her compared to past relationships if that would matter. I spoiled her and was very affectionate and loving toward her despite her past of being abused by men.

thanks for helping me to understand..

[valentinajoy]

I cannot represent all ENFJs. I can only express my thoughts on this. :)

As an ENFJ, I think I'm a VERY forgiving person. I believe that everyone makes mistakes and everyone deserves a second chance, a third chance, a forth chance, a fifth chance etc. As long as I can see any potential in that relationship to get better and my partner is going to work on it together with me, I would stay in the relationship and keep giving him chances and time to work on the relationship TOGETHER.

In fact, I would take initiatives to help US improve on US and the relationship. Remember, we are teachers. We naturally like to bring out the best potential in a person. Which is exactly why we are very forgiving... because when we see your flaws/weaknesses, we see opportunity to make "something" better, and we don't look at your flaws with disgust. If you don't get it right this time... never mind... try again... try again... try again...

We can forgive mistakes and accept and love you just the way you are. However, one thing we can't accept is... when you become cold like ice and distant yourself from us for a prolonged period of time. Now, this to us is PURE torture. When you first attempt to hide in your cave, we are still very understanding... We would bring you hot soup, say comforting words etc. We would even be understanding enough to leave you alone for a while so you can have your space. However, if you do it often enough or for a looooong period of time, we would eventually shut down all communication. When an ENFJ shuts down ALL communication, it's basically the end.

Think of it this way: We can accept a failing student because we believe in him and love him. However, we cannot have a student who shuts us off from his life and tell us... "I don't need you in my life anymore. Leave me alone!"

Once we don't feel the emotional connection to the relationship anymore, basically, we shuts down. I guess it's a natural self-defense mechanism? I don't know.

As someone had mentioned earlier on this thread about how ENFJs work according to a "hierarchy." I can definitely testify on this. When we shuts down emotionally and put you at the bottom level of the hierarchy, basically, you simply don't exist anymore. It sounds scary, I know. But trust me... it would take a LOT for an ENFJ to do that... When an ENFJ does that, basically it means that he/she no longer see any hope in that person/relationship anymore. He/she probably thinks that he/she has done everything he/she could to make it work but it's not going to work no matter how hard he/she tries.

Someone also mentioned about the Five Love Languages, which I can also testify. Most ENFJs love language is Words of Affirmation. The best way to connect with us? Say kind words with feelings. Haha... Gosh, that sounds terribly challenging for an INTJ to do.

Actually I think, Charlie... The best thing you can do now is give both of you time. Any warm gestures on your side now will only highlight to her that she doesn't feel the same way for you (because she has shut down emotionally and turned cold and she's not allowing herself to feel in order to protect herself from getting hurt). Give her some time to get from "cold" to "slightly warmer" or even "room temperature" is good enough. Then, you can test the temperature. Trust me, when she's back to "room temperature" or her natural "warm" self, it would be easier to communicate with her because she would be more likely to open up to you and she would allow herself to FEEL again.

HINT: Definitely, tell her how much you have missed her. Not now, though. :)

[alwayscurious]

If your wife said that you play the abandonment game, I would spend some time thinking about whether or not your behavior has in any way given the impression that you distance yourself after greater intimacy, stay away/ 'busy' for a while and then resurface or make an effort after you realize that her behavior seems to be changing..I.e. she's pulling away. If so, i'd encourage you to talk to her about this. If you have the tendency to compartmentalize, you should work on realizing how that affects her feelings/ fear that you are getting more and more distant and will abandon her emotionally someday. If her father was 'emotionally unavailable' as she grew up, she may fear 'abandonment' and common intj behaviors could easily stir up those fears..especially since mbti is new for both of you and she may not realize that you're just being an intj. This doesn't excuse your faults whatever they may be but it can help with providing her with some hope that things CAN improve if you both try to understand each other better in the future.