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LPM
04-13-2009, 03:14 PM
I was reading some older threads related to this (Bostonian has some interesting ideas on the subject), but not much has been discussed.

The eating disorder thread prompted this question because I believe the psychological risk factors that contribute to eating disorders are similar to sex addiction.

The term "sex addiction" can be controversial because some experts claim it doesn't exist. If you get hung up on that, then think of sex addiction as detrimental sexual compulsivity issues.

These issues have been a lifelong topic for me, mostly due to being raised in a strict religion (Mormon) that has no tolerance for porn or sex outside of marriage, which subsequently creates a lot of shame around an activity a lot of people view as natural, and completely screw up the individual.

Anyway, in my studies and interactions in 12 step groups and other groups, I think INTJ's could be highly susceptible to this kind of addiction due to some of the common traits I see in male sex addicts: introverted, intelligent, difficulty in expressing emotion, etc.

Henry
04-13-2009, 03:31 PM
I was reading some older threads related to this (Bostonian has some interesting ideas on the subject), but not much has been discussed.

The eating disorder thread prompted this question because I believe the psychological risk factors that contribute to eating disorders are similar to sex addiction.

The term "sex addiction" can be controversial because some experts claim it doesn't exist. If you get hung up on that, then think of sex addiction as detrimental sexual compulsivity issues.

These issues have been a lifelong topic for me, mostly due to being raised in a strict religion (Mormon) that has no tolerance for porn or sex outside of marriage, which subsequently creates a lot of shame around an activity a lot of people view as natural, and completely screw up the individual.

Anyway, in my studies and interactions in 12 step groups and other groups, I think INTJ's could be highly susceptible to this kind of addiction due to some of the common traits I see in male sex addicts: introverted, intelligent, difficulty in expressing emotion, etc.

I was also raised Mormon. The ridiculous degree of fear of sexuality in the faith probably has contributed to the copious amounts of porn I've watched in my lifetime, and the number of women I've slept with. I'm frankly baffled with why people with an IQ over 100 stay in a faith with Teleportation Jesus, Magic Underpants, and a belief that God put the dinosaurs here to test our faith. I agree that the faith mind-fucks its people, particularly in the area of sexuality.

Getting fired from your job because you look at porn while at work is sex addiction. Not doing anything with your free time besides locking yourself in your room to masturbate is sex addiction. Having sex with a lot of people isn't necessarily sex addiction, nor is watching porn several times per week. IMO its when the need for sex starts to damage other parts of your life that you start crossing the line from healthy enjoyment of a natural impulse to something that you need to address.

loosefanbelt
04-13-2009, 03:44 PM
There are spiritual paths that do not disavow the sensual or sexual. And there are INTJs that are just fine with the sensual or sexual.

The only person that I ever knew that I might consider to be "sexually addicted" if such a thing exists - was raised in a fundamentalist Nazarene church. I never knew his MBTI, though.

I hope you find companionable friends here.

'Serve God, love me and heal."

intjdude
04-13-2009, 04:06 PM
Anyway, in my studies and interactions in 12 step groups and other groups, I think INTJ's could be highly susceptible to this kind of addiction due to some of the common traits I see in male sex addicts: introverted, intelligent, difficulty in expressing emotion, etc.


I think an INTJ could be susceptible to anything that can be easily rationalized to be acceptable. The only biological reason to have any sex is pesky hormones really. If nature didn't build it so, it wouldn't be so. And as long as one is horny, one could seek out as many orgasms as one wants to satisfy that need. To say it's an addiction because one does a lot of it may be technically correct but that doesn't mean that something is actually wrong with it.

The question really is: What damage is actually caused?

If none, then don't worry about it. If some, then perhaps one needs to adjust.

dogwoodlover
04-13-2009, 04:30 PM
I was reading some older threads related to this (Bostonian has some interesting ideas on the subject), but not much has been discussed.

The eating disorder thread prompted this question because I believe the psychological risk factors that contribute to eating disorders are similar to sex addiction.

The term "sex addiction" can be controversial because some experts claim it doesn't exist. If you get hung up on that, then think of sex addiction as detrimental sexual compulsivity issues.

These issues have been a lifelong topic for me, mostly due to being raised in a strict religion (Mormon) that has no tolerance for porn or sex outside of marriage, which subsequently creates a lot of shame around an activity a lot of people view as natural, and completely screw up the individual.

Anyway, in my studies and interactions in 12 step groups and other groups, I think INTJ's could be highly susceptible to this kind of addiction due to some of the common traits I see in male sex addicts: introverted, intelligent, difficulty in expressing emotion, etc.


Inferior Se (our "shadow" of sorts) can often compel us to behave on primitive impulses.

I grew up in a similar home, but thankfully I got a girlfriend young enough to get over my "guilt" towards anything sex-related. My father wasn't as lucky.

dalidaisy
04-13-2009, 04:56 PM
Well, first you should describe sexual addiction. Here's WebMD's take:


The term “sexual addiction” is used to describe the behavior of a person who has an unusually intense sex drive or an obsession with sex. Sex and the thought of sex tend to dominate the sex addict's thinking, making it difficult to work or engage in healthy personal relationships.

Sex addicts engage in distorted thinking, often rationalizing and justifying their behavior and blaming others for problems. They generally deny they have a problem and make excuses for their actions.

Sexual addiction also is associated with risk-taking. A person with a sex addiction engages in various forms of sexual activity, despite the potential for negative and/or dangerous consequences. In addition to damaging the addict's relationships and interfering with his or her work and social life, a sexual addiction also puts the person at risk for emotional and physical injury.

For some people, the sex addiction progresses to involve illegal activities, such as exhibitionism (exposing oneself in public), making obscene phone calls, or molestation. However, it should be noted that sex addicts do not necessarily become sex offenders.


Behaviors associated with sexual addiction include:

Compulsive masturbation (self-stimulation)
Multiple affairs (extra-marital affairs)
Multiple or anonymous sexual partners and/or one-night stands
Consistent use of pornography
Unsafe sex
Phone or computer sex (cybersex)
Prostitution or use of prostitutes
Exhibitionism
Obsessive dating through personal ads
Voyeurism (watching others) and/or stalking
Sexual harassment
Molestation/rape
Generally, a person with a sex addiction gains little satisfaction from the sexual activity and forms no emotional bond with his or her sex partners. In addition, the problem of sex addiction often leads to feelings of guilt and shame. A sex addict also feels a lack of control over the behavior, despite negative consequences (financial, health, social, and emotional).



I like sex, a lot, but I'm no sex addict. I was raised Baptist & have had lots of sex. I'm not sure what part that plays. I think you will find people from all backgrounds who actively participate in & frequently think about sex.

I have no guilt/shame about having sex. I do not find it something I should hide or be ashamed of. I enjoy porn (on occasion) as well as sexual activities that others might find too dirty to imagine. I also masturbate often. It doesn't detract from the enjoyment of my life, it adds to it.

LPM
04-13-2009, 05:36 PM
Well, first you should describe sexual addiction. Here's WebMD's take:


The term “sexual addiction” is used to describe the behavior of a person who has an unusually intense sex drive or an obsession with sex. Sex and the thought of sex tend to dominate the sex addict's thinking, making it difficult to work or engage in healthy personal relationships.

Sex addicts engage in distorted thinking, often rationalizing and justifying their behavior and blaming others for problems. They generally deny they have a problem and make excuses for their actions.

Sexual addiction also is associated with risk-taking. A person with a sex addiction engages in various forms of sexual activity, despite the potential for negative and/or dangerous consequences. In addition to damaging the addict's relationships and interfering with his or her work and social life, a sexual addiction also puts the person at risk for emotional and physical injury.

For some people, the sex addiction progresses to involve illegal activities, such as exhibitionism (exposing oneself in public), making obscene phone calls, or molestation. However, it should be noted that sex addicts do not necessarily become sex offenders.


Behaviors associated with sexual addiction include:

Compulsive masturbation (self-stimulation)
Multiple affairs (extra-marital affairs)
Multiple or anonymous sexual partners and/or one-night stands
Consistent use of pornography
Unsafe sex
Phone or computer sex (cybersex)
Prostitution or use of prostitutes
Exhibitionism
Obsessive dating through personal ads
Voyeurism (watching others) and/or stalking
Sexual harassment
Molestation/rape
Generally, a person with a sex addiction gains little satisfaction from the sexual activity and forms no emotional bond with his or her sex partners. In addition, the problem of sex addiction often leads to feelings of guilt and shame. A sex addict also feels a lack of control over the behavior, despite negative consequences (financial, health, social, and emotional).



I like sex, a lot, but I'm no sex addict. I was raised Baptist & have had lots of sex. I'm not sure what part that plays. I think you will find people from all backgrounds who actively participate in & frequently think about sex.

I have no guilt/shame about having sex. I do not find it something I should hide or be ashamed of. I enjoy porn (on occasion) as well as sexual activities that others might find too dirty to imagine. I also masturbate often. It doesn't detract from the enjoyment of my life, it adds to it.

I would define it broadly as:


Sexual behavior you repeat that you want to stop and have tried to stop but can't.
It's gotten you into a lot of trouble, i.e. you've risked your life, employment, relationships you care about, salvation (for those religiously inclined) etc.
You tend to turn to sexual behaviors to soothe yourself or escape out of a difficult emotion.


I'm not talking about someone who has a lot of sex and feels it only is a positive in their life.

Sex addiction might seem funny and even a lot of fun, but it's really not about sex. It's about numbing pain or an escape from reality.

Plane Stress
04-13-2009, 05:59 PM
So do you think that sex addiction is something to worry about, like an eating disorder? Or are you saying that you're not sure whether or not you think it's good/right/a problem.

I definitely masturbate all the time, and a lot of times it's just to keep my hormones under control or I feel like it's just something I do but I'm not sure why, but I don't think it's a problem. I don't think it's an addiction in the same way that drugs are an addiction (although I'm sure they both have similar biochemical responses in the body), because it is perfectly natural to have a sex drive and want to do something to satisfy it.

Kisai
04-13-2009, 06:06 PM
Anyway, in my studies and interactions in 12 step groups and other groups, I think INTJ's could be highly susceptible to this kind of addiction due to some of the common traits I see in male sex addicts: introverted, intelligent, difficulty in expressing emotion, etc.


You've been in 12 step groups or you've run 12 step groups?

Do you think that the whole 'admit you're worthless and submit to a higher power' thing is particularly anti-INTJ?

LPM
04-13-2009, 06:34 PM
So do you think that sex addiction is something to worry about, like an eating disorder? Or are you saying that you're not sure whether or not you think it's good/right/a problem.

I definitely masturbate all the time, and a lot of times it's just to keep my hormones under control or I feel like it's just something I do but I'm not sure why, but I don't think it's a problem. I don't think it's an addiction in the same way that drugs are an addiction (although I'm sure they both have similar biochemical responses in the body), because it is perfectly natural to have a sex drive and want to do something to satisfy it.

If you don't think it's a problem, then by my definition you are not a sex addict. It's only a problem if you believe it's a problem and controlling your life. In this thread I'm curious if there is a disproportionate number of INTJ self defined sex addicts.





LPM added to this post, 5 minutes and 6 seconds later...

You've been in 12 step groups or you've run 12 step groups?

Do you think that the whole 'admit you're worthless and submit to a higher power' thing is particularly anti-INTJ?

Been in 12 step groups.

Haven't thought of that as it relates to INTJ-ness. In the past, being very religious, that aspect of it wasn't difficult to accept. I don't like the term worthless. But I still believe in God and desire to submit to his will, so that still isn't a big issue for me. The issue is determining his will.

Vagrant
04-13-2009, 07:51 PM
Well, first you should describe sexual addiction. Here's WebMD's take:


The term “sexual addiction” is used to describe the behavior of a person who has an unusually intense sex drive or an obsession with sex. Sex and the thought of sex tend to dominate the sex addict's thinking, making it difficult to work or engage in healthy personal relationships.

Sex addicts engage in distorted thinking, often rationalizing and justifying their behavior and blaming others for problems. They generally deny they have a problem and make excuses for their actions.

Sexual addiction also is associated with risk-taking. A person with a sex addiction engages in various forms of sexual activity, despite the potential for negative and/or dangerous consequences. In addition to damaging the addict's relationships and interfering with his or her work and social life, a sexual addiction also puts the person at risk for emotional and physical injury.

For some people, the sex addiction progresses to involve illegal activities, such as exhibitionism (exposing oneself in public), making obscene phone calls, or molestation. However, it should be noted that sex addicts do not necessarily become sex offenders.


Behaviors associated with sexual addiction include:

Compulsive masturbation (self-stimulation)
Multiple affairs (extra-marital affairs)
Multiple or anonymous sexual partners and/or one-night stands
Consistent use of pornography
Unsafe sex
Phone or computer sex (cybersex)
Prostitution or use of prostitutes
Exhibitionism
Obsessive dating through personal ads
Voyeurism (watching others) and/or stalking
Sexual harassment
Molestation/rape

Generally, a person with a sex addiction gains little satisfaction from the sexual activity and forms no emotional bond with his or her sex partners. In addition, the problem of sex addiction often leads to feelings of guilt and shame. A sex addict also feels a lack of control over the behavior, despite negative consequences (financial, health, social, and emotional).



I like sex, a lot, but I'm no sex addict. I was raised Baptist & have had lots of sex. I'm not sure what part that plays. I think you will find people from all backgrounds who actively participate in & frequently think about sex.

I have no guilt/shame about having sex. I do not find it something I should hide or be ashamed of. I enjoy porn (on occasion) as well as sexual activities that others might find too dirty to imagine. I also masturbate often. It doesn't detract from the enjoyment of my life, it adds to it.


I have to agree. While I certainly enjoy sex, I am not reliant on it. Now, I know why it might occur -- the hormones and chemicals released during sex are euphoric, and can almost be druglike. But it's difficult to differentiate a sexual addiction from simply a healthy libido.

TravelnTrain
04-13-2009, 08:51 PM
As an INTJ, I value efficiency. And right now I have no interest in a "relationship." So, porn, no-strings anonymous sex. etc can be quite efficient to get off with better fantasies, some body contact, or whatever else suits me. But to some, my list of frequent behaviors could appear as a non-normative, sex addiction.

Now that I think about it, where is that photo widget and bottle of lube???

BostonIan
04-13-2009, 09:22 PM
I've obviously done a lot of navel-gazing on the subject, a lot of it trying to put together the root causes of the behavior. I haven't wrapped it all up, but, some tidbits:

Orgasms feel more and less pleasurable at different times. The first orgasm I remember, I was very young, and it was eyes-rolling-back ooh-unh pleasurable, same through my (troubled) youth and (depressive) early adulthood. As I meditated and pulled myself out of depression, orgasms were noticeably less pleasurable, and my most recent orgasm didn't feel like much more than a sneeze. The pattern has been, the better I am, the less orgasms feel. The metaphor I use is like shining a flashlight in the sunlight - it doesn't do much.
The sociability factor may be chicken-egg. One unanticipated side-effect from continence was that I started craving social interaction, on a real physical level, and getting a real physical reward from it. Then, after an orgasm flurry a month ago, I went back into my shell and didn't need people. A theory, if orgasm releases oxytocin, it can take the place of the oxytocin we're missing from social interaction, or calm communal behavior. We may not need social interaction simply because we're having frequent orgasms. On the flip-side, poor social forming may make us need orgasms more, and pretzel back into the previous topic.
Religion, thought 1: shaming makes the action more pleasurable, and probably increases the compulsion to do it. On the plus side, that might make "regular" sex more hot and guilty. Thought 2: religious genes are probably more driving, reward-seeking, "dopaminergenic?" (or whatever the right word is), more of a fire-cracker. Anecdotally, there does seem to be a best/worst, angel/devil, "drugs or Jesus?" aspect to how we shake out. Thought 3, hedonism probably can't exist in a vacuum, there seems to need a component of rebellion from imposed norms in it. Whyever take a hard drug, for example?

Overall, it all seems to be in the same neighborhood - faith, pleasure, love. A lot of the behaviors listed for getting oxytocin reminded me of church, and monogamous voles are more prone to drug addiction (in lab tests) than their non pair-bonding cousins. "The sexual embrace can only be compared with music and with prayer." - Marcus Aurelius

As for "natural" and the "screw-up" of the individual, I would agree in a few narrow ways, but disagree in very many ways that would take the thread far off-topic. Staying on subject, by definition, porn is not natural, especially not when piped into your household through newfangled technology that makes any sexual urge available immediately, at a whim, in whatever quantity you desire.

Pornography "screws-up" the individual by escalating sexual desires beyond what's readily available in real life, and often into the realm of the harmful and obscene. Any moral code has areas of sexuality that are taboo, all draw lines, and the lure of the forbidden works in the same manner no matter where those lines are drawn. (I'll invite anyone who's interested over to the rape fantasy thread(s) for further scientific observation.) Also, I've repeated this ad nauseam here, but orgasms aren't without potential negative physical and psychological consequences, and porn and sexual variety increase those consequences.

I think the real issue of shaming is that it applies stress to the moral code, and I believe stress is what gets us in the addictive cycle to begin with. It starts at the youngest ages, even in utero. Later, children separated from their moms are stressed, crazy houses are stressed, loud cities, absent or unclear authority, strangers all around, bad food, lack of sleep, fractured communities. And then, diddle-diddle, eyes rolling back - much better now.

INTJ's, I've noticed a few things anecdotally here, people having very many orgasms and sex/porn indulgences, and the reverse on other sites, people having topic-type troubles turning out to be INTJ. One tidbit I smirked about was that after-orgasm hormones cement memories - is that why we're so smart? - but, I'm not close to being sure about it. Good idea for a poll, though.

Zsych
04-14-2009, 06:53 PM
That would imply that a lot of the people who get a lot of sex would be more intelligent on average compared to others.

Xackery
04-15-2009, 03:22 AM
Hey, I'm INTJ and ex-mormon too!
I believe that which affects you only does so when you don't try to stop it. The last thing you should be doing is attributing your problems by blaming your environment or upbringing. Yes, it's very obvious these two things factor much in your behavioral patterns, but they are not the deciding factor. You are. If you think you have a problem with something, then fix it. <shrugs>

I am constantly by my mormon parents, and I do find it the trend of non-mormons going crazy with lack of morals (the mormons like to talk about this and note that this is because they are so compelled by the devil!!! Why else would they leave the church?) but truly it's just showing how lost they were and how hooked and dependant they really were on the church for guidance. Without it, they have no sensibility to understand the ramifications of going around and usually go extreme not understanding the influences around them and how to stop themselves without someone else to tell them "No, that's bad!".

If you sit back and think of the sensibility of being addicted to sex, the ramifications, and overall problems that can result in it, you should be able to argue in your mind a final conclusion that should satisfy your thoughts about if it truly is good or not. Until you can convince yourself it is or isn't a problem, then it's really hard to find the energy to fix it.

At least for me, if I can find something I'm doing having a direct issue, I will put focus and find energy to put myself to change it.

If you need additional information to help you in deciding, read up on what are the problems about sex addition (google sex addiction problem I guess?) and go from there. Get plenty of opinions.

But remember, even the 12 step systems, religious systems, and even the doctors are all trying to shove something into your throat and sell something, (call me paranoid), so always be careful where you're getting your information and ensure you truly agree with what they're saying.

Never take things just at face value, and instead investigate and learn it for yourself. Your health and life depends more on that reassurance than anything else if you ask me. XD

If I ever was going to need open heart surgery, and assuming it wasn't an immediate operation, I would investigate as deeply I can everysurgeon who is available to do it, to ensure my chances of success are higher. As awesome as it may sound to survive by malpractice lawsuits, it isn't what I call an unavoidable situation.

Also I hate how in today's society every problem seems to have a pill. If you are addicted to smoking, take a nicotine patch. If you have a headache, have an asperin. If you are addicted to sex, go to a 12 step clinic. It's too convenient and in my opinion it's patch work. The best fix is you enduring and fixing it yourself, it creates better independant and self power. There are exceptions to this rule, of course. But if you question my mind set, remember that even if you use patches like the above SPARINGLY the effectiveness of it is that much more powerful when you finally do have to use it. (If I take a single Tylenol from a splitting headache, which I think it has been about 8 years now, it can put me to sleep and I'll sleep soundly for 8 hours from my body not being used to such a foreign drug.)

Henry
04-15-2009, 02:30 PM
Hey, I'm INTJ and ex-mormon too!

I don't know how an INTJ could maintain membership in the faith. The majority experience the faith on a very simplistic "Don't drink Coke" or "Wear white shirts only", along with a wonderfully comforting view of death and the afterlife. All of which has massive appeal for frightened SJs but little appeal for an independent and critical NT that's smart enough to realize that our beliefs about the afterlife and fear of death are inexorably linked.

I am constantly by my mormon parents, and I do find it the trend of non-mormons going crazy with lack of morals (the mormons like to talk about this and note that this is because they are so compelled by the devil!!! Why else would they leave the church?) but truly it's just showing how lost they were and how hooked and dependant they really were on the church for guidance.

I acutally think that a lot of this has more to do with the fact that the Mormons mind-fuck their members, and when they leave the church typically all of their friends and most of their family drop like a rock. So basically these people emerged from a culture of brainwashing, and when they left most of their existing support group (which Mormons teach should be mostly LDS to begin with) disappears. Little wonder that many turn to alcohol addiction, drugs, and sex considering that they basically have nothing left.

Oh, and if they happen to be in Utah, good luck finding employment unless you are a member; LDS employment services basically controls the labor market in the area. So if you leave, you've got no job, no friend and no family.

Without it, they have no sensibility to understand the ramifications of going around and usually go extreme not understanding the influences around them and how to stop themselves without someone else to tell them "No, that's bad!".

I am generally a reasonably moral person, but I do admit to taking a tremendous thrill when I've managed to liberate mormon girls from the draconian sexual views of the church. Its thrilling regardless of whether they go back hat in hand to their bishops, or whether they are bright enough to realize that sexuality is natural, fun and healthy instead of something disgusting and to be feared.

Anhedonic Lake
11-28-2010, 03:42 PM
Sometimes South Park gets it wrong, but they got it right with the sex addiction disorder satire episode.

Blackwark
11-28-2010, 10:49 PM
As a general rule, I don't trust 12 step programs. My step father was in one. It didn't help.

Substitution of a divine will for your own rather than strengthening your own will and learning to take responsibility and moderation seriously doesn't strike me as wise or personally fulfilling.

If anything, it's a clever way to use people's personal weaknesses to further indoctrinate them into a religion in a nice, orderly, legal fashion.

In closing, I have a rather harsh opinion on the matter. Perhaps it's useful for some people, but, to me, it's one of the dirtiest uses for psychological healing, substituting a need for one thing for a need of jesus's crotch.