Poetic Justice

[Hdier]

I was not totally sure what section to put this under, but this one seemed best. If you think it belongs in another one, please tell me which one and how I can move it.

Now, on to the main topic. To my understanding 'poetic justice' is something like a bandit who raped woman being turned into a woman as punishment (if I am wrong please correct me). This is, in my opinion, the best type, putting the person through the crime that they committed. I was wondering if anyone else enjoyed poetic justice. Does anyone think that this is because of my 'F'?

[Doppelbock]

It would be more accurate to say that poetic justice is the rapist who is forcibly designated as the new prison bitch. Yes, I very much enjoy poetic justice. I don't think it has to do with J versus F necessarily.

[Paul V]

I was not totally sure what section to put this under, but this one seemed best. If you think it belongs in another one, please tell me which one and how I can move it.

Now, on to the main topic. To my understanding 'poetic justice' is something like a bandit who raped woman being turned into a woman as punishment (if I am wrong please correct me). This is, in my opinion, the best type, putting the person through the crime that they committed. I was wondering if anyone else enjoyed poetic justice. Does anyone think that this is because of my 'F'?

No. Poetic justice highly appeals to me as well. Though I believe that becoming a woman isn't the appropriate punishment. Being helpless and forbibly raped by a stronger man would be.

Having a high F is not necessarily an indicator of this. Poetic justice is, after all, smart justice. We are Ns, which means we appreciate the subtle connections between the crime and the punishment, and we're Js, which means we appreciate the closure the proper punishment brings.

[DeepPurple]

Poetic justice sounds alright to me. Justice in general is music to my ears. This sounds like an eye for an eye type thing. I wonder what other people will say.

[Rohsiph]

Problem with poetic justice: it's often misunderstood.

Case in point (I hope): the 100% stereotype xSTJ believing it to be poetic justice for the 100% stereotype INTJ to be forced into conforming/bending to common perception/social norms.

[niffer]

I think visualizing poetic justice and stuff can be fun, but if some of it was actually used, I don't think it would be fundamental.

[quentin]

I'm down with what Gandhi said about poetic justice: if everyone practiced an eye for an eye, the whole world would go blind. I'd like to think that we've evolved beyond such primitive ideas of "justice". Revenge does not necessarily = justice. Justice is much more complex than that.

[Hdier]

No. Poetic justice highly appeals to me as well. Though I believe that becoming a woman isn't the appropriate punishment. Being helpless and forbibly raped by a stronger man would be.

Having a high F is not necessarily an indicator of this. Poetic justice is, after all, smart justice. We are Ns, which means we appreciate the subtle connections between the crime and the punishment, and we're Js, which means we appreciate the closure the proper punishment brings.

I forgot to say, I was using an example from a book in a society where it was pretty much automatic that he would be raped multiple times, since 'he' was in a bandit group, and would have a much harder time going through life. That's why that would be poetic justice.

[thecraig]

I'm down with what Gandhi said about poetic justice: if everyone practiced an eye for an eye, the whole world would go blind. I'd like to think that we've evolved beyond such primitive ideas of "justice". Revenge does not necessarily = justice. Justice is much more complex than that.

I disagree with justice being complex. Balancing justice and mercy is complex. Justice is simple.

If I tell my children that if they do X then Y will be their punishment, then when I mete out the proscribed punishment Y unon their accomplishment of X, justice has been served. Justice is Crime equals punishment.

Where it gets complicated is when and why should I show mercy.

[Hdier]

I think that Justice should be a part of Mercy, that Justice without Mercy is not Justice at all. Just my unorthodox opinion.

[niffer]

I think that Justice should be a part of Mercy, that Justice without Mercy is not Justice at all. Just my unorthodox opinion.

....After this?:

Now, on to the main topic. To my understanding 'poetic justice' is something like a bandit who raped woman being turned into a woman as punishment (if I am wrong please correct me). This is, in my opinion, the best type, putting the person through the crime that they committed. I was wondering if anyone else enjoyed poetic justice. Does anyone think that this is because of my 'F'?

If you're going to have a system in which you have to keep asking "To what extent?" then chances are it wasn't a very good system in the first place. You can't reason with things like this. You are dealing with humans here.

[stasis]

Revenge is not justice. Reverting a negative act upon the actor is an appeal to reactionary empathy; this is emotionalism, and again, not justice. I can't say that I enjoy it at all. The just function of punishment is the resolution of a social problem. It is otherwise savagery.

[quentin]

Anyone who says justice is simple.....well, entire philosophies have been debated for thousands of years about the concept of justice. Read some Plato or Aristotle, for heaven's sake. If justice were simple, man wouldn't have needed to develop the concept of law and spend millenia honing and refining the legal justice system from Hammurabi to the Magna Carta to the Bill of Rights to etc.....lawyers and politicians argue about what is justice literally thousands of times every single day. Justice is anything but simple.

However appealing revenge may be on a primal, primate level, it's an instinctive, emotional reaction. I would have figured as -NTJ's that most people here would think with their heads, their logic, rather than their guts and feelings.

[Hdier]

Even I, as an F, resist the concept of revenge as I understand that it would only cause pain and anguish to all involved, including myself.

[Lucid]

I was not totally sure what section to put this under, but this one seemed best. If you think it belongs in another one, please tell me which one and how I can move it.

Now, on to the main topic. To my understanding 'poetic justice' is something like a bandit who raped woman being turned into a woman as punishment (if I am wrong please correct me). This is, in my opinion, the best type, putting the person through the crime that they committed. I was wondering if anyone else enjoyed poetic justice. Does anyone think that this is because of my 'F'?

I just read the first posting here and wanted to ask why it would be a punishment to be a woman? I'll respond to this thread with something more on-topic shortly :)

[Hdier]

Because in the society that they were living in (I pulled the example from a book) the person was almost sure to be raped, especially when they put him on a horse and sent him back to the bandit camp that he is the (former) leader of.

[Lucid]

Because in the society that they were living in (I pulled the example from a book) the person was almost sure to be raped, especially when they put him on a horse and sent him back to the bandit camp that he is the (former) leader of.

Oh. You even already said that earlier in the thread as well. Sorry, I missed the explanation the first time around. I will make sure to read more carefully in the future. :embarassed:

[Hdier]

I did? I need to remember what I post. I mean, yeah; it better never happen again, either! Huh! (now I'm a tough manly man 'cause I just said that) :)

[OneBadMother]

Poetic justice has a certain appeal to me mostly because I like seeing connections between things. I think that's the N in me speaking more than anything else.

[PortInStorm]

Wow, amazing topic. I don't know whether this is justice or revenge (I've had people call it both), but I really, really hate seeing people taken advantage of. And yet in the times when I've tried to act to correct the wrong (not meting [sp?] out exactly what they did, but calling them to account for what they did), I've always been penalized by the people I was trying to help. So I don't do it anymore. So my inward defender has sheathed the sword- for now.

I guess I see revenge as doing exactly as the other did to you , or pretty close ie. eye for eye. And some kind of accounting/stopping the bad action as justice. And much reduced accounting or none at all as mercy. As my faith says, the judge's son comes into the court and as a judge, he/she must punish the son according to the law, but mercy says the opposite. So the judge pronounces the sentence, removes his/her robe, and takes the punishment instead of the son. That's justice AND mercy.

[Hdier]

I would say that it would be revenge if the people who were raped, raped him(her), or something along those lines (like back when the victim of the crime would be the one to whip the criminal). This would be justice by making him(her) the victim of the crime he(she) commited, without it being revenge.

[PortInStorm]

So you'd say that if the hurt person retaliated it'd be revenge, but if someone else retaliated, it'd be justice? It's about who exacts the punishment? That makes some sense to me- after all, isn't that what the police are for? But if the offended person does it, it's denigrated as "vigilante justice".... So I guess that's our society's view.

Or maybe the main variable is the pre-establishment of society's rules. Like if the victim were to punish the offender, the offender had no pre-offense knowledge of the consequences, but if society (via the police/justice system) punishes the offender, he/she did have advance knowledge of what would society-sanctioned punishment would occur if they committed the crime.

[Hdier]

No, I wasn't saying that, though it is part of it. Obviously, anyone who is attatched to the criminal/victim cannot inact the punishment, however the punishment must be just for it to be justice.

However, one of my many golden rules is 'There is an exception to every rule' (it's it's own exception), meaning that there are times when things such as vigilantese (super heroes FTW!), or the person who was victimized enacts the punishment, but under the pre-established rules.