In a relationship but still use online dating

[Bliss]

I had an odd situation come up. I heard my ex had a profile on an online dating service so out of curiousity I went online to check it out. What I came across in my search was the profile of the INTJ I am CURRENTLY in a relationship with for almost a year now. ~shrug~ We are both in our early 40's.

I'm not quite sure what to think of this, I was pretty shocked. He is loyal to the core and has integrity beyond anyone else I have ever known. So I'm wondering what the logic would be to continue having an online dating profile, which shows it has been active within the last 24 hours, if you are involved an exclusive relationship? We spend every possible free day together and when we are not together he is working his A$$ off growing his company, focused and stressed about that.

Is it something I should just blow off and just chalk it up to as an INTJ trait to analyze everything? Or has my INFJ heart been fooled once again? ~sigh~

[Frag]

Well since you two obviously can't talk I'd say there is a serious problem.

[Rudy]

I'd ask, simple as that. Allow him to defend himself. Don't be accusing, obviously.

[DanteFalling]

I agree with Rudy on this one. If you bring it up, he'll realize you're savvy and interesting, be able to have an honest conversation with you, or laugh and realize he's had it on and never bothered to delete it. I have to admit, that as an INTJ, I often keep not my options open, per se, but my radar on for comparisons and learning opportunities. That sounds convoluted, but I mean to say that INTJ do tend to be loyal when it comes to sex and the emotional relationship.

[Feral]

Sounds like a lot of women I know.
Probably just cruising for attention.
Men like to feel wanted and pretty, too. Sometimes getting it from one person apparently isn't enough validation.

[Cthulhu]

I had an odd situation come up. I heard my ex had a profile on an online dating service so out of curiousity I went online to check it out. What I came across in my search was the profile of the INTJ I am CURRENTLY in a relationship with for almost a year now. ~shrug~ We are both in our early 40's.


Do you think he'll have a problem with you checking up on your ex?

[ClydeB]

Yes. I think I would say exactly what you asked us to your significant other instead. Get his response.

Or, you could go create your own profile, then ask him out on a blind date as that other person. See what happens.

[Harmony]

Hmm... I've seen several people around here that have profiles on dating websites but are already in relationships...

I've been known on occasion to check it out and see who is out there. (My friends, not looking for someone, just seeing who is using it!) However, my profile isn't turned on for viewing... Perhaps he doesn't realize his is turned on. (I know, I'm trying to be all positive and stuff)

I've also seen swingers use it trying to find a third person.... There are sadly two couples here I know that do that... One of them also searches for his own side benefit though.

You'll never know if it's innocent or if he's really looking until you ask.

[rara avis]

I agree with Rudy on this one. If you bring it up, he'll realize you're savvy and interesting, be able to have an honest conversation with you, or laugh and realize he's had it on and never bothered to delete it.

That was my first thought - that it just hadn't been deactivated... but the fact that he's been on in the last 24 hrs? WTF? That doesn't seem quite right to me.

Yes. I think I would say exactly what you asked us to your significant other instead. Get his response.

Yes, I'd do exactly this.

Or, you could go create your own profile, then ask him out on a blind date as that other person. See what happens.

And I'd wish I'd do this, it's fantastic. If all goes well, you can pull it off as cute and teasing - and if he's revealed to be a jerk, than you can be clever and devious.

But I think the straightforward conversation is probably the best, most game-free route.

[BostonIan]

Hold on, hold on, don't talk to him, don't ask!

What to do is set up an account, use another woman's face, talk with him. Even if he responds and is open to a date, still, don't ask! Set up a date, maybe at a restaurant. Meet him there - then you ask.

People lie, some lie well. Generally, if he created the account within the past year, it's fairly damning. That he used the account in the past few days is iffy. But, both can be smooth-talked out of, I like my idea.

[LaoTzu]

It's devious, but I like the idea of dating him through it.

If you really want to know what's in his heart... that's the way to do it. People lie, true... but they lie to themselves just as often as to others. If your SO is conflicted, he wont be able to be truthful to you even if he wants to.

All that being said. He's an INTJ.
He's probably just looking for validation outside the relationship. It doesn't have to mean he's looking to find someone else. If it's OKCupid, he might just be doing the tests.... :P

[zibber]

Rewind:

I heard my ex had a profile on an online dating service so out of curiousity I went online to check it out.

What's up with that, though?

Other than that, I agree with Rudy et al.


I've also seen swingers use it trying to find a third person.... There are sadly two couples here I know that do that... One of them also searches for his own side benefit though.


Man, I am really out of the loop :laugh:

[SimplyOtter]

Hold on, hold on, don't talk to him, don't ask!

What to do is set up an account, use another woman's face, talk with him. Even if he responds and is open to a date, still, don't ask! Set up a date, maybe at a restaurant. Meet him there - then you ask.



That's risky, though. What if he will flirt with you? Would you take it as a final proof that he wants to cheat on you? Sometimes we flirt for no real reason, even if we are in love with our partners... sure, flirting on an online dating site it's not exactly reassuring for you, but if you start this cycle, how would you tell him about it, after pretending of being another woman? Wouldn't he feel betrayed too?

Honesty it's difficult, very difficult sometimes. But in the long term it pays off much more, I reckon.

[rara avis]

That's risky, though. What if he will flirt with you? Would you take it as a final proof that he wants to cheat on you? Sometimes we flirt for no real reason, even if we are in love with our partners... sure, flirting on an online dating site it's not exactly reassuring for you, but if you start this cycle, how would you tell him about it, after pretending of being another woman? Wouldn't he feel betrayed too?

Honesty it's difficult, very difficult sometimes. But in the long term it pays off much more, I reckon.

I think the clincher would be if he agreed to go out with her alter ego.

There is something very appealing about the plan, but like I said, it is overt gamesmanship, which is pretty cringeful to me in this context.

[BlackOp]

There is something very appealing about the plan, but like I said, it is overt gamesmanship, which is pretty cringeful to me in this context.

Commits to memory.......:laugh:

You are in a bit of a pickle....if you confront him, he might view it as an infringement. Maybe he is just curious....INTJs tend to be like that. He may have just been bored. You could open a profile with your own identity and ask him out.....

[rara avis]

If I discover iffy behavior like that in someone with whom I'm in a committed relationship, they should prepare to be infringed upon.

In a reasonable manner, but still.

[Rudy]

Again, I think that you should confront him, but openly and honestly. I think all this talk of making fake profiles can only lead to disaster.

[Harmony]

Wow, I can't come up with a good indirect way to let him know that you know without telling a lie to him. :(

I keep thinking you could mention that your friend joined this new dating site (and tell him the name of it)... And try and read his body language... It may jar his memory that he forgot he was on there, or he might decide to fess up...

I don't recommend that though... I'm not a big fan of telling a lie in an effort to find the truth...

[rara avis]

I agree with Rudy, just ask him directly.

Why would he not understand that if he's maintaining a dating profile, his girlfriend would like to know why? It's a perfectly rational thing to ask about.

It's just a question of how he responds, and whether you feel comfortable with his answers in terms of truth and full disclosure.

[ElstonGunn]

I also prefer the calm and non-accusing "What gives" approach.

Or if you wanted to set up your own page on the same site, you could make it clear that you're you. I know some couples who like to meet at bars or what not and pretend that they don't know each other so they can go through the whole pick-up process again for fun. You might be able to turn this situation into something like that. Or maybe not, since it skirts the whole "Why were you on there?" "Well why were you on there, too?" conversation.

I think it'd be best to just ask him calmly.

[reb]

1. if you are absolutely, positively 'certain' this is the person you want to be with, and are willing to have the whole thing live on 'trust', then ask.

2. if you are aware that there are 'holes that can't be patched, no matter what is done', then go set up the 'fake account'. and enjoy yourself. mess with his head, and try not to mess up yours. whatever you do with this, don't take any outcome seriously. after all, you knew already about 'the holes'.

risk both ways...relationships are risky. this is why i don't have one and don't want one.

i wish you the very best, whatever happens.

[Maayan]

How did you find out?

[Pcell]

She can always just create the alter ego "lady" and do a few experiments, and then when she's satisfied she can just ask him as if she didn't know anything. There's a possibility she would find out about devious behavior and get really upset, which would give the whole thing up.

I would suggest just asking honestly, but if you want to test his devotion I'd say do the account and check him out.

[azelismia]

Again, I think that you should confront him, but openly and honestly. I think all this talk of making fake profiles can only lead to disaster.


yes it's down right oscar wildish in it's implications.


personally, I don't think there are any good reasons for having a profile on and active if you're in a relationship with someone else and I just don't think it could possibly be innocent. I'd talk to him about it. I'd also be prepared to walk over something like that.

Personally, I think you've been had.

[BostonIan]

Okay, if lying is an issue, options:

Have a friend or relative that he doesn't know fill out a profile, approach him as honestly as possible, and let you read the correspondence yourself.
Ask a woman on the site if she can help you.
Download a keylogger, put it on his computer, get his password to the site, read his inbox.
Use your middle-name, fill out the information as honestly as possible. No lying, just asking questions. "Hello, I noticed your profile. Are you single? Are you looking for a relationship? Have you had much success with these sites in the past?"

Invasion of privacy or relationship research? Sneaky ploy or elaborate test? Potato or potahto? Best case, he comes through with flying colors, and you'd know for sure. Worst case, you don't have to confront him with the knowledge, you can just ask him about the site and know for sure, whatever his answer will be.

[ClydeB]

Y'all took my idea and really ran with it. I was more along the lines of
Create the profile and chat online see what vibe you get that way.
Then ask about it in person and see what answer you get that way.

Compare the two for discrepancies. Her S.O. would never need to know who the person online really was.

[darynthe]

Confronting him directly makes no sense whatsoever for God's sake. He will deny it if he is innocent and also if he is guilty. She won't get any relief or peace from such a response

I am afraid if you want to know the truth the only way to either create a profile yourself or ask an impartial friend to do it for you. Put a very pretty woman's picture and write him an email offering sex directly or the possibility of a hot adventure.

If ignores such proposition maybe he is innocent.

The likelihood of this is very low, so brace yourself.

[Rudy]

What site is this on, if I may ask? There may be a big difference here. As someone else said, if it's okcupid, for example, many people use that site to do the tests and whatnot without intending to "hook up" with it.

[quiet intensity]

yes it's down right oscar wildish in it's implications.


personally, I don't think there are any good reasons for having a profile on and active if you're in a relationship with someone else and I just don't think it could possibly be innocent. I'd talk to him about it. I'd also be prepared to walk over something like that.

Personally, I think you've been had.

I have a strong sense of this, as well.

[ricearoni]

When I was a member of match dot com, there were times it would say that I had been active in the last 24hrs, but I hadn't logged in for a week. Me and my friend, thought that was something that was purposely done just to make the site look like it had more active members. But then that was a couple of years ago and really doesn't make much difference in your situation, but I thought it was interesting. :p

I think you shouldn't get too worked up about the situation, yet. Most likely scenario is that he had an old profile and forgot to get rid of it, go private or whatever. Then recently, he got a message from some random person and out of curiosity logged in to check it out and afterwards didn't think to take down his profile. The real red flags for me would be recent pictures on the dating profile or information that suggests he had written it recently. Also, if he's been acting strangely lately, like taking more care in his appearance, taking showers more often, blah blah blah, that'd be a red flag too.

Even though I think it's probably innocent, I would still ask him about it. One thing I've learned about INTJs is that the answer is NEVER what you think it'll be, nor do they really care too much that you're curious. Plus, it'll give you some peace of mind. You know the guy, so you can tell if he's being truthful or not.

And if he asks why you were on that site, tell him the truth. I don't think it's a big deal really. I mean if I heard my ex was on a dating site, I'd want to check it out and make fun of/pity the guy with my friends too.





ricearoni added to this post, 19 minutes and 35 seconds later...

I am afraid if you want to know the truth the only way to either create a profile yourself or ask an impartial friend to do it for you. Put a very pretty woman's picture and write him an email offering sex directly or the possibility of a hot adventure.

I think that'd be a great way to find out the truth in that situation, but let's say he passes the test and still keeps up his profile? Then what? Install a keylogger? Follow him around? Hire a spy?

If she can't talk to him and trust what he says, then clearly there are bigger problems in the relationship that need to be dealt with. She's been with him for a year, she should be able to tell when he's lying or not.

[azelismia]

What site is this on, if I may ask? There may be a big difference here. As someone else said, if it's okcupid, for example, many people use that site to do the tests and whatnot without intending to "hook up" with it.


that's absolutely true. ok cupid isn't the same as match or yahoo.com

but I think it's the only site along those lines.

as far as teh "he couldn't be bad because he's an intj"

1. we know he's an intj because someone says he is.. mbti has a 25% failure rate. that's high.
2. just because someone is intj does not necessarily mean they are there for innocent purposes.

[ElstonGunn]

If my girlfriend spied on me and deliberately tested me in a way like what people are suggesting, I'd drop her like a cheap sack of potatoes. Anxiety and expecting the worst aren't valid reasons to violate someone's privacy. I think it sets a bad precedent in the relationship if you're not able to discuss your concerns with him or trust each other.

[Sinequanon]

Normally I would say that trust has to win out here, because without trust there is no relationship. But the problem is the existence of the profile has already shaken trust. With that factor in mind, you have to wonder what he says is true.

I would actually advocate trying the method people are talking about, of seeing if he would "bite". I wouldn't lead him on too much, just see what he's there for. I just closed my OkC profile because I kept getting people who would say they wanted to be friends, but quickly turned sexual, and I'm not looking for that right now. A friend of mine said, "Well, dummy, it IS a dating site, what do you expect?" Apparently "People to say what they mean" isn't enough. So, maybe your INTJ has some integrity and naivety all wrapped up in one?

In any case, I wouldn't ever tell him that you did what you did, I'd just take it for what it is... if he bites, then you have all the reason in the world to leave, and if he doesn't, then don't worry about it. A few months later, bring it up casually. I don't think it's unfair/unjust to make sure you're not being cheated on.

[ricearoni]

Normally I would say that trust has to win out here, because without trust there is no relationship. But the problem is the existence of the profile has already shaken trust. With that factor in mind, you have to wonder what he says is true.

I just closed my OkC profile because I kept getting people who would say they wanted to be friends, but quickly turned sexual, and I'm not looking for that right now. A friend of mine said, "Well, dummy, it IS a dating site, what do you expect?" Apparently "People to say what they mean" isn't enough. So, maybe your INTJ has some integrity and naivety all wrapped up in one?

So let's say your girlfriend didn't know about your account and saw it before you closed it. Wouldn't you be bothered that she had to test you? If it were me, I'd be hurt and seriously disappointed that my b/f couldn't trust me enough to ask me FIRST what's going on. There's so many things that can happen that could shake a person's trust. Finding weird photos then discovering they were real old, catching him hugging a pretty friend or a co-worker and discovering that they were comforting them because of the death of a loved one, blah blah blah.

If a person has to keep resorting to snooping around first, where's the trust?

[Sinequanon]

So let's say your girlfriend didn't know about your account and saw it before you closed it. Wouldn't you be bothered that she had to test you?
Well first off, I'd pass the test. If I were in a place where I wouldn't pass the test, then that would say everything it'd need say about our relationship.

That said, no. I wouldn't be bothered about it. I understand that having the profile up was a violation of trust in the first place. If she wasn't sure she could trust me, how could she be sure I wouldn't lie to her if she did confront me directly about it? So, no... I might have an emotional reaction to it but I would come around to understanding that I put her in an impossible situation, and ultimately I need/want her to trust me. The person making the first violation, in that case, is me.

If it were me, I'd be hurt and seriously disappointed that my b/f couldn't trust me enough to ask me FIRST what's going on. There's so many things that can happen that could shake a person's trust. Finding weird photos then discovering they were real old, catching him hugging a pretty friend or a co-worker and discovering that they were comforting them because of the death of a loved one, blah blah blah.

If a person has to keep resorting to snooping around first, where's the trust?
The problem is that this isn't a situation where you see an action that could be misinterpreted. It is, presumably, a dating website. The two of them are dating. So anything going on on the dating website would seem to be directed towards that. It would seem to me that her hugging someone else would fall into the same category as her saying she finds some actor (who looks nothing like me) sexy, or me getting distracted by the waitress in the low cut top. It's sort of my (or her) burden to be secure in the relationship and not be bothered by things like that. But an active profile on a dating website is like a beacon saying "I'm looking for a relationship/sex/whatever."

[ElstonGunn]

I don't think it's unfair/unjust to make sure you're not being cheated on.

I don't think it's unfair, but I do think it's a bad thing to do. It perpetuates mistrust. It's like if someone badmouths you behind your back, responding in kind will probably just escalate the fight, although it's perfectly understandable to want to do that, and I'm sure it would be justified in a lot of people's opinions.

I'm with the San Francisco Treat on this, specifically the part about being hurt or offended that asking like a mature adult wasn't her first response, and she instead resorted to childish snooping. The only confirmed things at this point are that the boyfriend has a page on a dating site, and that it says he's been active recently. I'm not advocating naivety, but I don't think you should make it mean more than it does.

I think it's important to remember that a person's actions don't take place in a vacuum. It's impossible to "just test him to see" without there being the potential for that to cause its own problems. Dumping someone for snooping might make me an extreme example in this case, but it's possible that the simple act of testing could damage an otherwise fine situation to some extent. There's the chance that the guy is looking for something extra on the side, in which case it would be good to know that. But it's also possible that he's completely innocent, and if he is, it would be a shame to cause a problem over it.

[Sinequanon]

I don't think it's unfair, but I do think it's a bad thing to do. It perpetuates mistrust. It's like if someone badmouths you behind your back, responding in kind will probably just escalate the fight, although it's perfectly understandable to want to do that, and I'm sure it would be justified in a lot of people's opinions.

I'm with the San Francisco Treat on this, specifically the part about being hurt or offended that asking like a mature adult wasn't her first response, and she instead resorted to childish snooping. The only confirmed things at this point are that the boyfriend has a page on a dating site, and that it says he's been active recently. I'm not advocating naivety, but I don't think you should make it mean more than it does.

I think it's important to remember that a person's actions don't take place in a vacuum. It's impossible to "just test him to see" without there being the potential for that to cause its own problems. Dumping someone for snooping might make me an extreme example in this case, but it's possible that the simple act of testing could damage an otherwise fine situation to some extent. There's the chance that the guy is looking for something extra on the side, in which case it would be good to know that. But it's also possible that he's completely innocent, and if he is, it would be a shame to cause a problem over it.
Haven't you ever been lied to? Confronting someone is one of the least effective ways to discover the truth, especially when there's a relationship at stake. Let's say in my situation I was using OkC to pick up chicks on the side. How difficult would it be to just close out the profile, tell my SO that I wasn't doing anything, and move on? There's literally no positive benefit to me saying "It's true, I was cheating on you, you caught me." And that's even taking the moderate position. The extreme position would be to placate her while I continue to cheat with however many people.

Being direct is well and good but it plays directly into the cycle of being played for a fool, too. And for whatever it's worth, he absolutely is betraying her trust by having the profile up, especially if it's a site like Match.com which has no other purpose but to put presumably single people together. I'm not saying that she shoudl set him up "To Catch a Predator" style, but she should be entitled to find out exactly what he's up to, and confronting him won't really get to the truth.

[ElstonGunn]

Haven't you ever been lied to? Confronting someone is one of the least effective ways to discover the truth

I agree, that's why I wouldn't advocate confrontation, either. Not in the "You got some 'splaining to do" style, anyways. At this point in the relationship, I think she'd have a relatively decent read on the guy's character, not to mention what methods of communication work well with him and which are not so useful.

Relationships carry the inherent risk of getting hurt. If someone isn't willing to accept that possibility, and sets up tests and hoops to jump through in order to minimize that risk and gauge their partner's fidelity, I don't think they should be in a relationship. I think a "why should I trust you" mentality is harmful to the relationship, in that it pits one person against the other on a sort of insidious, un-stated level.

That's just me, though. I'm not saying that everyone should be playing by my rules, or that they're the best set of rules out there, or anything else like that.

[reb]

I agree, that's why I wouldn't advocate confrontation, either. Not in the "You got some 'splaining to do" style, anyways. At this point in the relationship, I think she'd have a relatively decent read on the guy's character, not to mention what methods of communication work well with him and which are not so useful.

Relationships carry the inherent risk of getting hurt. If someone isn't willing to accept that possibility, and sets up tests and hoops to jump through in order to minimize that risk and gauge their partner's fidelity, I don't think they should be in a relationship. I think a "why should I trust you" mentality is harmful to the relationship, in that it pits one person against the other on a sort of insidious, un-stated level.

That's just me, though. I'm not saying that everyone should be playing by my rules, or that they're the best set of rules out there, or anything else like that.

herein lies the key, in my analysis. she's got to decide 'do i trust this person?'; 'how vulnerable do i feel?'; 'what is the value of this person to me?' before taking any action. going off half cocked is going to make a mess. there is no way anyone other than the op can possibly see all the factors...most of us are revealing more about ourselves in our posts than we are even touching on her situation. i dunno what else to tell her...but, Elston, you have made a good synthesis in your central paragraph, i believe.

[intjdude]

Relationships carry the inherent risk of getting hurt. If someone isn't willing to accept that possibility, and sets up tests and hoops to jump through in order to minimize that risk and gauge their partner's fidelity, I don't think they should be in a relationship. I think a "why should I trust you" mentality is harmful to the relationship, in that it pits one person against the other on a sort of insidious, un-stated level.


I'd say this is 'king' here. If you are going to start manipulating with tests here and there you are risking setting your house on fire. You cannot eliminate all risk and if you try, you will be the aggressor. It's a lose-lose situation even if you don't screw it up.

- If he doesn't pass the test, you lose (regardless of accuracy).
- If he passes the test, you've become untrusting and manipulative. You lose unless you value this sort of thing. And you still haven't proved that he's not cheating.

[Sinequanon]

The question is who set the house on fire in the first place.

Getting mad at Bliss for trying to figure out the truth is like getting mad at the police for discovering your secret schemes through a stakeout. As if they'd come knocking on the door and simply asked about your criminal empire you would have gladly told them the details. The "truth", as it is, is not an easy thing to get at. It's messy. It's incomplete and it won't just be handed to her by asking. If she feels secure enough in the relationship to ask and is willing to accept whatever answer, then she's a better person than me, because she is not responsible for initiating the worry in this situation, he is. If she is trying to protect her heart, she needs to act in her own best interest. The fact that "spying" on him won't lead to a complete answer isn't a reason to not do it. Answers are rarely complete.

[cindybear]

Bliss,

I was in a very similar situation three months ago.

I was lying on my stomach in bed and he brought his laptop over so that we could research something together. His email client was open and I saw two recent emails from two different dating websites. First, I panicked. Then I got angry (because I couldn't understand what was going on and didn't know what to do next).

A week or two later, we were taking a walk and I asked if he was interested in seeing other people, as well as where he sees the relationship going. After he gave optimistic answers about our future together, I told him that I have been feeling anxiety because I saw those two emails from the dating websites.

He confirmed that he did sign up for two dating websites and let the subscriptions expire. But the conversation ended there.

It took two more conversations over the course of a month for me to express my desire for him to take down his dating profiles and for him to remember to do it. He had no problem with this. One time, it was accidental: I asked if he could do me a favor and he responded, "Take down my dating profiles?" I said, "Actually, now that you bring it up, that, too, but also..." So I got lucky that time. Who wants to be a nagger? (He also said the subscriptions were a waste of money and didn't work well at all for him.)

Hope you can find a gentle way to confront him. Honesty and expressing a genuine concern for the relationship helps. If he doesn't take this concern seriously, then that attitude may tell you something else.

[intjdude]

The question is who set the house on fire in the first place.


The whole point of 'trust' is that you give the benefit of the doubt when it is 'questionable'.
Therefore 'questionable' is not a legitimate reason to break trust as it would render this principle pointless. You need something more than just 'questionable'. Personals is 'questionable' because you cannot prove that participating in personals equals cheating.

The 'price' of trust is the 'risk that you will get hurt'. If you attempt to destroy all the risk, you are in fact destroying the trust.

In this case, you are willing to be untrusting and manipulative in order to find the truth. But if he turns out to be a honorable person, who have you become and what have you done?

My advice is to find something more concrete. You need to prove that he 'has' or 'is' cheating. You cannot prove that he 'will' cheat. And you cannot damage the relationship yourself while doing this.



Getting mad at Bliss for trying to figure out the truth is like getting mad at the police for discovering your secret schemes through a stakeout.

Police do not operate on the principle of trust

[Frag]

I was lying on my stomach in bed and he brought his laptop over so that we could research something together. His email client was open and I saw two recent emails from two different dating websites. First, I panicked. Then I got angry (because I couldn't understand what was going on and didn't know what to do next).
Wow, trying SO hard to cover it up there.
OP - this clearly exemplifies how it is absolutely a conspiracy against you.

On a more serious note, I think ElstonGunn has some fair points.