Who's more clueless in bed Men or Women?

[boldbidder]

OK, so I was having a chat with my sister (also an INTJ) yesterday and she made the comment that this guy she's been dating and recently became intimate with was lousy in bed and wasn't good at following instruction either......lol. This led to a heated exchange regarding which gender in general is more clueless in bed. I know the knee-jerk reaction is men because the onus of performance lies with the male (or at least we're taught to believe that), but I maintain that a good chunk of women, probably the majority is downright abysmal to the point that a date with Palmela would be a better option.

Rants and funny stories are welcome here :)

[charolastra]

It's more about communication than gender. Each body reacts to stimulus differently and if someone is clueless at either giving direction or taking direction, then it's going to be unsatisfying.

Far too many people of both genders expect their partner to be stellar from day one. It's simply unrealistic. Being the nerdy little INTJ that I am, when I was with my first boyfriend around age 15, I spent a huge chunk of time studying up on how to give a good blow job. So, I wasn't completely clueless, but I still needed some direction. Different people need different stimulus.

[Harmony]

It's not a gender thing.... I tend to think it depends on how open you are. Open to listening and open to trying new things... It's the ones that have said "No way am I trying that," that I have found incredibly boring and lousy in the sack.... Can only take missionary so long before I want to strangle myself. :p

[LPM]

I try to get my wife to watch porn to help her imagination, but of course it offends her. It's gross, offensive, or "fake". I don't care if it's fake, the steak looks and tastes tender and juicy and delicious to the senses.

[Prunesquallor]

It's not a gender thing.

[ClydeB]

Would it be safe to assume that if you are not sure who's more clueless then its probably you?

[Cthulhu]

It's a function of the individual, not the gender.

Although my sample of partners is, tragically, too small with which to make a valid statistical inference, there's been a huge variation in terms of ability, enthusiasm, stamina, etc.

[ElstonGunn]

Aren't practicing bi-sexuals the only people who have even a semi-legitimate (but still completely subjective and un-authoritative) claim to an answer for this question?

[OneHertz]

I would say women. There is a lot less pressure on them to perform (or so I think anyways) so they would be less inclined to get better. I find most are not very active at all and a partner that is just kind of "there" is boring.

[dalidaisy]

I agree with the "it's not a gender" thing, although, in my experience, men are the clueless ones. But, that's because they are with me, and I happen to be experienced in this area. Being a bisexual, I've also had some experience with women as well. What I've found is that most women have a need to please their partners. Whereas, I have found that most men have a need to please themselves. (These are, of course, generalizations)

So, the definition of clueless needs to be stated here. What makes a person clueless in bed? Their inability to please you? Thier inability to enjoy what you have to offer? A complete lack of knowledge? It's all really about perception. You may be seeing sex one way, while your partner may be seeing it differently. Communication is the only way to alleviate suspected clulessness in this area.

I suppose we are all clueless in the beginning. It takes experience & the desire to improve to move past this. I guess some of us are more inclined to become knowledgable & experienced than others. It depends on the value you place on it...

[Prunesquallor]

I'd just like to say: guys, nipples don't revolve.

[dalidaisy]

It's not a gender thing.... I tend to think it depends on how open you are. Open to listening and open to trying new things... It's the ones that have said "No way am I trying that," that I have found incredibly boring and lousy in the sack.... Can only take missionary so long before I want to strangle myself. :p


Does trying new things make you less clueless? If they were open to try new things, but ultimately suck at them, are they still clueless? Is being bored by your partner a sign of cluelessness on their part?

[Harmony]

Does trying new things make you less clueless? If they were open to try new things, but ultimately suck at them, are they still clueless? Is being bored by your partner a sign of cluelessness on their part?

Well, if you never try something new, you never experience it, and the more you experience something....the less clueless I would hope people would become...

And yeah... If I am bored and have been trying to get my partner to change and they refuse to pick up on my boredom even after being very vocal... they are clueless... Well, maybe not clueless, but stubborn in a very bad way.

[Phoenix rising]

The key is getting inside their head, eye contact and experimenting to see what gets the best reaction- a bit of teasing works well too. That's advice for guys. Ladies all you need to remember is suspenders ;-)

[boldbidder]

Perhaps clueless is the wrong term, that implies that have zero knowledge as what SHOULD be done, maybe a better question would be who's generally more inept? For example if they attempt to do something the execution is so poor that you just assume they didn't do anything.





boldbidder added to this post, 5 minutes and 43 seconds later...

Now let me preface this by saying on the majority of issues I'm gender neutral, but in this case I also take into account the performance burden that is laid squarely at the feet of men. See all the "male enhancement" products out there as evidence of this societal perception, don't know of any "female enhancement" products out there. That's not to say that there aren't a great many men who are selfish when it comes to being intimate, but I get the feeling that alot of women think just by being present that somehow they have a magical love canal.

[Rho1334]

Perhaps clueless is the wrong term, that implies that have zero knowledge as what SHOULD be done, maybe a better question would be who's generally more inept? For example if they attempt to do something the execution is so poor that you just assume they didn't do anything.





boldbidder added to this post, 5 minutes and 43 seconds later...

Now let me preface this by saying on the majority of issues I'm gender neutral, but in this case I also take into account the performance burden that is laid squarely at the feet of men. See all the "male enhancement" products out there as evidence of this societal perception, don't know of any "female enhancement" products out there. That's not to say that there aren't a great many men who are selfish when it comes to being intimate, but I get the feeling that alot of women think just by being present that somehow they have a magical love canal.

There are too women enhancement products out there...its called a boob job. Women have it just as rough as us guys...especially if the man is a minute man.

But to answer the question...it's individual based not gender. Every person learn at their own pace. Sure there are those who never learn and will be bad at sex for the rest of thier lives. One can say well guys do this and another can say girl do this but at the end of the day we are all inept.

[Brittle]

That's not to say that there aren't a great many men who are selfish when it comes to being intimate, but I get the feeling that alot of women think just by being present that somehow they have a magical love canal.

Sadly there are quite a few men who treat a woman as if she's nothing more than (as you so quaintly put it) a "magical love canal", so is it any wonder some women may think that's all a man is interested in and therefore don't need to offer anything else?


Back to the OP, I think it's nothing to do with gender and everything to do with personal preference and willingness to communicate. What one person finds dissatisfying may work well with someone else. While some people may respond well to instructions being barked at them, others may need a more gentle approach to bring out their best.

If 90% of sex is supposed to be driven by the brain, is it the fault of our partner if we're not satisfied?

[PeterIMC]

OK, so I was having a chat with my sister (also an INTJ) yesterday and she made the comment that this guy she's been dating and recently became intimate with was lousy in bed and wasn't good at following instruction either......lol. This led to a heated exchange regarding which gender in general is more clueless in bed. I know the knee-jerk reaction is men because the onus of performance lies with the male (or at least we're taught to believe that), but I maintain that a good chunk of women, probably the majority is downright abysmal to the point that a date with Palmela would be a better option.

Rants and funny stories are welcome here :)

It's not a gender thing I think. It's more about the right combination of 2 people. One has to lead, the other has to follow. If both are the same, that doesn't work very well I think.

[Shinqui]

Although my experience with men is limited, I would still state that women are far more clueless than men in regards to sex. There is a strong leaning towards passivity in women when it comes to sexuality, combined with a sense that their presence if often all that is required. Conversely, the onus to perform seems to be fully within the realm of men, including responsibility for their own and their partner’s orgasms.

It appears typical as well to have women feel that men are not complex sexually, and that minimal effort is required to satisfy them. While it is certainly true that most men can achieve orgasm through inexperienced, apathetic or clumsy manipulation, the actual orgasm itself should not be used as a standard for success in pleasing your partner.

It is refreshing to meet women who take responsibility for their own orgasms, through involvement and direction. As well as women who actively seek sexual encounters, initiate them, share their fantasies and participate in the bedroom. Women who experiment, research, and develop their techniques in order to please their partners are wonderful, but somewhat rare.

Yeah, that’s one of the reasons why I scooped up Dalidaisy……such a tasty girl.

Peace

[Harmony]

There are too women enhancement products out there...its called a boob job. Women have it just as rough as us guys...especially if the man is a minute man.

But to answer the question...it's individual based not gender. Every person learn at their own pace. Sure there are those who never learn and will be bad at sex for the rest of thier lives. One can say well guys do this and another can say girl do this but at the end of the day we are all inept.

When I had satellite radio I kept hearing some ad for women's sexual enhancement cream as well...

[Vagrant]

It's on an individual basis.

What I've found is people who've "studied" sex (either by looking at a LOT of porn, or simply reading up on methods and what works and what doesn't) tend to be the best at sex.

The first girl (I believe ISFJ, but I don't really care. :p) I did "the freaky" with (no sex, just touching, I think the term is third base), was really bad -- she had practically no idea what to do with my penis even though I was giving her very detailed descriptions what to do. Ultimately I just showed her how to do it, but she still didn't get it. However, I had read up on how to please a woman (with your hands), and so I really did bring her to orgasm (albeit rather difficult because she wouldn't stop kissing me the entire time, which killed my arm).

The second girl (who was an INTJ), who I actually had sex with knew exactly what she was doing. She had been in previous relationships before, and she openly admitted to watching porn. We spent a lot of time going at it, because we could both easily make the other orgasm.

The third girl (INFP) I only had sex with once. Since I never had time to really figure out her body's cues, I wasn't able to bring her to orgasm. But then again, she didn't bring me to it either. :p

So, like I said, it's all a matter of personal experience and how "brushed up" you are on the issue. Even though I was still a virgin with my second girlfriend, I had already read up a buttload on sex, and after the first time, she said I did amazing for a virgin.

[mnmeq]

It's a function of the individual, not the gender.

Although my sample of partners is, tragically, too small with which to make a valid statistical inference, there's been a huge variation in terms of ability, enthusiasm, stamina, etc.

given your above average prehensile facial endowment I would think you would be more popular with the ladies.

[speedsuit721]

don't know of any "female enhancement" products out there

What??? Our whole LIVES are dictated by products designed to enhance our sexual appeal. We're expected to be big-titted, tight-assed, skinny, hairless, bleached, make-uped, dyed, waxed, plucked, botoxed and all of it done in tight clothes and hooker heels.

So boohoo for the male enhancement products. What a burden, I'm sure.

[Merle]

What I've found is people who've "studied" sex (either by looking at a LOT of porn, or simply reading up on methods and what works and what doesn't) tend to be the best at sex.



Learning about sex by watching porn is a bit like learning the Piano by watching Chico Marx play one in a film. I think that is actually one of the big problems for young men at the moment... at least in my experience. A worrying number of them seem to think that real-life sex is supposed to be how it is in porn films, it can be fun to watch them and porn-style sex can be ok sometimes... but I seriously do not want to be hammered away at and bent into ridiculous poses just so you can think you're doing *right*, like a true stud.

[Medicine Man]

Yes, I once saw a porn where the girl was about 1 cm from having her spinal cord evulsed out of the vertebrae because of a particularly bizarre sex position. Basically, it involved the girls head on the bed, her rear strategically thrust upward, and her legs completing the loop by going back down to her feet. I guess thats what it takes to make groundbreaking porn these days.

[Vagrant]

Learning about sex by watching porn is a bit like learning the Piano by watching Chico Marx play one in a film. I think that is actually one of the big problems for young men at the moment... at least in my experience. A worrying number of them seem to think that real-life sex is supposed to be how it is in porn films, it can be fun to watch them and porn-style sex can be ok sometimes... but I seriously do not want to be hammered away at and bent into ridiculous poses just so you can think you're doing *right*, like a true stud.

That's why I said A LOT of porn, or simply reading up on the issue.

Why do I say that? After watching enough porn, it's pretty easy to figure out what's comfortable and enjoyable for the girl, and what is actually rather painful and unpleasant. And it also becomes obvious that not all women are the same. A lot of this becomes especially obvious because a lot of the fake orgasms and stuff in porn are really obviously fake, but the genuine stuff is a lot more subtle. I know as I've grown up, my tastes in porn have changed to where my favorite kind is where it actually seems like she's enjoying herself (generally amateur porn).

That's assuming you're good at pattern recognition though (which most INTJ's tend to be). Not all guys are, however, which is why porn viewing should be supplemented with educational reading material. :D

[Monte314]

Men.

I've done a seminar in our community a couple of times titled, "Knowing Your Wife", talking to men about how they can meet their wives emotional and physical needs.

Men want to be successful with their wives, but many do not understand the psychological differences between men and women. This male confusion produces behaviors that are easily interpreted by wives as lack of concern and thoughtlessness.

Too often the result is hurt feelings and decreased communication... if not addressed, this can lead to a cycle of hurt and anger which damages the relationship, sometimes beyond repair.

[dogwoodlover]

Being the nerdy little INTJ that I am, when I was with my first boyfriend around age 15, I spent a huge chunk of time studying up on how to give a good blow job. So, I wasn't completely clueless, but I still needed some direction. Different people need different stimulus.

I did the same thing at 16 except I was reading up on how to eat a girl out. I had it down to a science in my head before I even got anywhere near a girl.


I think it has a lot to do with the individuals. Clearly the mechanics of sex seem to advocate men "doing the work", so there's a greater likelihood of them being miserable at it. Women, on the other hand, have to worry less about technique, tempo and what not (at least, during coitus). Personally though, I think men are more inclined to pursue their own pleasure than are women, and thus, tend to be deficient in pleasing their partners.

On the other hand, young boys tend to be more socialized to the idea of sex, and often have a much better idea about it than girls of the same age.

The "so teeth is bad?" part of the poll made me laugh, quite a bit, because when my gf and I started dating we both were virgins. Fond memories.

[boldbidder]

What??? Our whole LIVES are dictated by products designed to enhance our sexual appeal. We're expected to be big-titted, tight-assed, skinny, hairless, bleached, make-uped, dyed, waxed, plucked, botoxed and all of it done in tight clothes and hooker heels.

So boohoo for the male enhancement products. What a burden, I'm sure.

You actually help prove my point, the products for women are designed to attract not to improve performance. I said that he burden of PERFORMANCE is what lies squarely on the shoulders of men. So unless you're taking about vaginal rejuvenation or some other procedure I'm not familiar with then we're comparing apples to oranges. Does the burden for appeal rest with women? Yes, but that wasn't the point of my post you quoted.

[Autoptic]

Men want to be successful with their wives, but many do not understand the psychological differences between men and women. This male confusion produces behaviors that are easily interpreted by wives as lack of concern and thoughtlessness.

Women don't do this? Of course, the differences and the culture slant many female preferences as objectively good if sentimental when they don't actually function for their stated purposes and demonstrate a notable lack of understanding of either side. The men are more likely to be convinced they're wrong even if they don't play along. It's not just if females claim they want to help the relationship among like things. It's a question of how much of her vision of it is taken as some unquestionable good.

[Harmony]

You actually help prove my point, the products for women are designed to attract not to improve performance. I said that he burden of PERFORMANCE is what lies squarely on the shoulders of men. So unless you're taking about vaginal rejuvenation or some other procedure I'm not familiar with then we're comparing apples to oranges. Does the burden for appeal rest with women? Yes, but that wasn't the point of my post you quoted.

Go take a stroll through a porn shop.... All kinds of enhancements for men and women. At least, the one I go to carries the creams that are supposed to make it way more sensitive down there...I can't even imagine... I'm already sensitive, that would probably...Never mind...Shouldn't think about that stuff at work. :p

[Autoptic]

Go take a stroll through a porn shop.... All kinds of enhancements for men and women. At least, the one I go to carries the creams that are supposed to make it way more sensitive down there...I can't even imagine... I'm already sensitive, that would probably...Never mind...Shouldn't think about that stuff at work. :p

On the male end, he's supposed to go at it longer even though the act itself is does little more than move toward and hopefully support the all important ending, but on the female end you get something that makes the whole thing feel better, and this is balanced?

[boldbidder]

Go take a stroll through a porn shop.... All kinds of enhancements for men and women. At least, the one I go to carries the creams that are supposed to make it way more sensitive down there...I can't even imagine... I'm already sensitive, that would probably...Never mind...Shouldn't think about that stuff at work. :p

OK, maybe I'm just not articulating the point clearly. Some creams making the clitoris more sensitive is not a performance aid, that in no way is going to help your partner. Are there pills that tighten vaginal walls or increase the excretion rate of vaginal lubricants (no, astroglide doesn't count)? Pretty sure there aren't, so I maintain the burden of PERFORMANCE is something that lies with men and not women. That's not to say that the burden of allure doesn't reside with women or that there aren't slews of industries dedicated solely to that end, that's a topic of conversation for a different thread.

[Harmony]

OK, maybe I'm just not articulating the point clearly. Some creams making the clitoris more sensitive is not a performance aid, that in no way is going to help your partner. Are there pills that tighten vaginal walls or increase the excretion rate of vaginal lubricants (no, astroglide doesn't count)? Pretty sure there aren't, so I maintain the burden of PERFORMANCE is something that lies with men and not women. That's not to say that the burden of allure doesn't reside with women or that there aren't slews of industries dedicated solely to that end, that's a topic of conversation for a different thread.

Ah, that I don't know about, I don't have that problem so I've never actually paid attention. ;)

[dalidaisy]

There are too women enhancement products out there...its called a boob job.

Is a boob job really a sexual enhancement? Boobs are nice & all, but, unless you are using them as another orifice to penetrate, they really have no bearing on the sexual experience (aside from looking nice). You can suck on, bite, pinch, clamp, etc, a small boob just as easy as a big one. It's all about the nipple anyway (at least that's where men seem to focus once the clothes come off). I had just as good sex when I had no boobs as when they were extra-large (not by boob-job, btw). In fact, oftentimes, they just got in the way.





dalidaisy added to this post, 6 minutes and 29 seconds later...

What??? Our whole LIVES are dictated by products designed to enhance our sexual appeal. We're expected to be big-titted, tight-assed, skinny, hairless, bleached, make-uped, dyed, waxed, plucked, botoxed and all of it done in tight clothes and hooker heels.

So boohoo for the male enhancement products. What a burden, I'm sure.

None of these aids my sexual experience, either (except maybe the thing about the hair, butthat's a personal choice). These things may help you get sex, but do not, IMO, increase pleasure from the experience...

There are stimulants out there that can be applied to the clitoris, but that's mostly for your own pleasure. I've heard of new lubricants that work to gether to heat up & increase pleasure (sounds good in theory, I have yet to test them).

I guess to please a man, you could have a labiaplasty or hymenoplasty. When working in the cosmetic field, I came across many plastic surgeons who specialize in this. It is quite costly, though. Probably cheaper for the man to use a pump or some other contraption to make his penis larger (if these actually work, I have no idea), than for a woman to make herself smaller.





dalidaisy added to this post, 4 minutes and 13 seconds later...

That's why I said A LOT of porn, or simply reading up on the issue.

Why do I say that? After watching enough porn, it's pretty easy to figure out what's comfortable and enjoyable for the girl, and what is actually rather painful and unpleasant. And it also becomes obvious that not all women are the same. A lot of this becomes especially obvious because a lot of the fake orgasms and stuff in porn are really obviously fake, but the genuine stuff is a lot more subtle. I know as I've grown up, my tastes in porn have changed to where my favorite kind is where it actually seems like she's enjoying herself (generally amateur porn).

That's assuming you're good at pattern recognition though (which most INTJ's tend to be). Not all guys are, however, which is why porn viewing should be supplemented with educational reading material. :D

Practice makes perfect, guys. Studying only gets you so far. There is no better way to learn about sex than doing it & making sure you have a partner who is open to discuss & try new things to increase the pleasure of the experience. My best advice is communication communication, communication.





dalidaisy added to this post, 6 minutes and 49 seconds later...

There is a strong leaning towards passivity in women when it comes to sexuality, combined with a sense that their presence if often all that is required.

I have never understood this. I have never left my enjoyment of anything to another person, in sex or otherwise. I am & always have been an active participant in my life all aspects of it. Passively watching opportunities for learning & enjoyment is not only illogical, but silly, IMO.

I have heard that many women are like this, but I hardly ever believe stereotypes. Lately, I've been looking around at the women I encounter & wondering what they are like in bed. I wonder if you can tell by their demeanor & dress? I wonder if people look at me & can tell I'm good in bed? Maybe that's why I never have a problem getting dates? I need to gather data on this. It's very interesting...

Yeah, that’s one of the reasons why I scooped up Dalidaisy……such a tasty girl.

Hehe, thanks! Scooped... That's funny...

[Shinqui]

Yes, I once saw a porn where the girl was about 1 cm from having her spinal cord evulsed out of the vertebrae because of a particularly bizarre sex position. Basically, it involved the girls head on the bed, her rear strategically thrust upward, and her legs completing the loop by going back down to her feet. I guess thats what it takes to make groundbreaking porn these days.

Now I'm guessing that you meant to say that her feet were back down by her head since legs typically go all the way to the feet.

Anyway, sounds tasty, Dalidaisy what do you think? I think I'm supposed to stand on the bed in this posistion.

Spice is the variety of life after all.

[dalidaisy]

Now I'm guessing that you meant to say that her feet were back down by her head since legs typically go all the way to the feet.

Anyway, sounds tasty, Dalidaisy what do you think? I think I'm supposed to stand on the bed in this posistion.

Spice is the variety of life after all.

Well, I hope we mean knees by the head, because my knees don't bend backwards. I think it would help if there was a headboard or footboard to help leverage the feet to help stay in position ;). Oh, unless we are talking backbend (which would be a little tougher, but doable).

These are really more yoga stretches, but I think it could easily be used as a sexual positions if you are so inclined (& flexible)...

[Chain]

In my experience:

I've met very few women- regardless of age- that actually know what they like and don't like, and more importantly what and how gets them off. Hell, half the time they can't figure out why they're attracted to the types of men that they are. Ask a guy and most will give you the list.

Society, at least in the US, basically tells men to do and explore as much as possible. It tells women to all but wear a chastity belt. I hate to say it, but social garbage like that does have an effect.

[dalidaisy]

Society, at least in the US, basically tells men to do and explore as much as possible. It tells women to all but wear a chastity belt. I hate to say it, but social garbage like that does have an effect.

Yea, society can bite me...

[Harmony]

Yea, society can bite me...

Amen to that... I'm part of society, can I bite you too? I'm thinking you might be into that. ;)

[Chain]

Yea, society can bite me...

When it comes to sex, I wish more women were like that.

Hell, in general, I wish more people were like that; assuming they learned from their mistakes, the world would be a happier place.

[dalidaisy]

Amen to that... I'm part of society, can I bite you too? I'm thinking you might be into that. ;)


Tell you what, if you can find me, you can bite me. That goes for society at large...

*starts camoflaging entrance to secret lair*

[speedsuit721]

Here's the thing: it's a known fact that most women don't orgasm through vaginal penetration (at least Dan Savage says it all the time). A man's dick size isn't what's going to push a woman over the edge. She's probably going to have to use manual stimulation, or a vibrator, or the guy's tongue to have an orgasm. Vaginal penetration mostly benefits men, the same way a hole in a wall would.

So who cares how big your dick is? We can't really use it anyway.

[dalidaisy]

Here's the thing: it's a known fact that most women don't orgasm through vaginal penetration (at least Dan Savage says it all the time). A man's dick size isn't what's going to push a woman over the edge. She's probably going to have to use manual stimulation, or a vibrator, or the guy's tongue to have an orgasm. Vaginal penetration mostly benefits men, the same way a hole in a wall would.

So who cares how big your dick is? We can't really use it anyway.

Huh? I'm sorry, but I find this statement wrong. Women can orgasm through stimulation of the g-spot (yes, there is one & if you have issues with this, then my suggestion is the G-Shot (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) (sorry, couldn't help it). I heard about this at a cosmetic surgery convention last year.

A man's penis size really only matter with g-spot stimulation if they cannot reach it. This is why it is good to find a partner who is evenly matched for you in size. As a 6ft tall girl, it is true that there are some men who aren't equipped to stimulate mine (sorry shorties!).

In no way is a man's penis required for this, but it is nice...

EDIT: When I say size, it's not the length necessarily...

[speedsuit721]

I would look up the statistics, but I'm at work, and I don't really want to risk it. Later.

[Chain]

Here's the thing: it's a known fact that most women don't orgasm through vaginal penetration (at least Dan Savage says it all the time). A man's dick size isn't what's going to push a woman over the edge. She's probably going to have to use manual stimulation, or a vibrator, or the guy's tongue to have an orgasm. Vaginal penetration mostly benefits men, the same way a hole in a wall would.

So who cares how big your dick is? We can't really use it anyway.

I've only run into that once. The problem with most people is that they don't know how to engage the mind, and sex is a lot more mental than physical. Of course, a lot of that comes from not caring and/or not paying attention.

The biggest problem I've seen with women getting off had to do with anxiety. They felt so pressured to orgasm or to please that they wouldn't allow themselves to live in the moment and enjoy it.

[dalidaisy]

I've only run into that once. The problem with most people is that they don't know how to engage the mind, and sex is a lot more mental than physical. Of course, a lot of that comes from not caring and/or not paying attention.

The biggest problem I've seen with women getting off had to do with anxiety. They felt so pressured to orgasm or to please that they wouldn't allow themselves to live in the moment and enjoy it.

When both you & your partner can learn to enjoy sex without an orgasm, that's when they get REALLY good (you don't have to try so hard). Personally, I like sex with or without orgasm (but, of course, with is preferred, on both sides). I also like it when they sneak up on you...

[Rho1334]

When both you & your partner can learn to enjoy sex without an orgasm, that's when they get REALLY good (you don't have to try so hard). Personally, I like sex with or without orgasm (but, of course, with is preferred, on both sides). I also like it when they sneak up on you...

All I have to say is amen to that!

[Merle]

I also like it when they sneak up on you...

Orgasms or men?

[Chain]

When both you & your partner can learn to enjoy sex without an orgasm, that's when they get REALLY good (you don't have to try so hard). Personally, I like sex with or without orgasm (but, of course, with is preferred, on both sides). I also like it when they sneak up on you...

When I said "once" I meant with one woman, not one time. I fully understand what you're getting at and you're right.

It's fine by me to be left with a hard-on, and not orgasmed in last bit, but I have to have at least one- most of the time. Not due to satisfaction or fullfillment requirements, but because "blue balls" aren't my idea of a good time. And I can usually predict when it will and won't be a problem.

[dogwoodlover]

Orgasms or men?

I hear it isn't rape if you yell "SURPRISE!!!!!!!"

[Vagrant]

Here's the thing: it's a known fact that most women don't orgasm through vaginal penetration (at least Dan Savage says it all the time). A man's dick size isn't what's going to push a woman over the edge. She's probably going to have to use manual stimulation, or a vibrator, or the guy's tongue to have an orgasm. Vaginal penetration mostly benefits men, the same way a hole in a wall would.

So who cares how big your dick is? We can't really use it anyway.

As was already mentioned, the G-spot is inside the vagina, and so a man's girth does play a role in how often and how stimulated it is. Length doesn't really matter beyond 5 inches, but girth certainly does matter. Additionally, increased girth (and pubes) help stimulate the clitoris during sex, although not as directly as a tongue or a finger would.

[Monte314]

Women don't do this?

No, women don't do this.

[dalidaisy]

As was already mentioned, the G-spot is inside the vagina, and so a man's girth does play a role in how often and how stimulated it is. Length doesn't really matter beyond 5 inches, but girth certainly does matter. Additionally, increased girth (and pubes) help stimulate the clitoris during sex, although not as directly as a tongue or a finger would.

Well, there is something to say about a large penis. I am not in the 5" is fine club. I think this varies by person. However, if it is too big, when it gets hard, it seems the blood used to fill it comes straight out of the brain...

I do not think that increased girth or pubes are effective clitoral stimulation, either. A varied position can work for any size & the rubbing together of two pelvises in the right spot can do it as well. It is completely possible to have vaginal & clitoral orgasm at the same time. And, it is wonderful. I highly suggest it.

[Autoptic]

Men want to be successful with their wives, but many do not understand the psychological differences between men and women. This male confusion produces behaviors that are easily interpreted by wives as lack of concern and thoughtlessness.

No, women don't do this.

That was rather rhetorical. You just admitted the women don't get the guys, but it's somehow all the men's problem. The rest I was referring to was the assumption the two are complimentary and the privileging of females to insert layers of their own complexity under the fallacious pretense that it magically benefits the males who didn't notice or care simply because it doesn't and often does the exact opposite.

As has been admitted in other threads the flirting games aren't for the males, and some of us have nothing to gain from it. It's like searching the sewer as if it were a mine forgetting that the method with produce only its like. Feel free to extrapolate the result of that analogy. It's been partially admitted that sexual complexities favor the female though with little admittance that it can reduce the male's end of it. That the media is selling men unrealistic expectations forgets the same has been going on for females for millennia to the point that it's been normalized. It used to come with costs that have since been repealed. Entitlement fails both ways, no?

Sure, a few males actually like this stuff. Most don't seem to. Some of us genuinely find it counterproductive to its supposed goals. Again, feel free to claim this preference is a matter of lack of skill since I'll just love any damn thing just because I'm stuck being proficient at it.:rolleyes: How only serve a why. The pleasantness would be the why here. This how precludes this why. Of course, the next shot will be something about being a real man, right? I don't know how moronic you happen to be, but I have enough intelligence to know when people are trying to bait and manipulate me to fit a fashion trend. Find your dancing monkey elsewhere. I already know that tune, and it's obnoxious.

This wasn't solely directed at Monte, of course.

[speedsuit721]

The ‘mythical’ G-spot does exist, but according to Italian scientists only 1 in 4 women have it, New Scientist reported.

According to New Scientist, the researchers, at the University of L’Aquila in Italy, have discovered clear anatomical differences between women who claim to have vaginal orgasms - as opposed to clitoral - and those that don’t.
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Separate site:

We should emphasise now that clitoral stimulation is the principal way of achieving orgasm. If, during foreplay, sex or masturbation, clitoral stimulation is not offered/received, your chances of reaching orgasm are significantly lessened.
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[Rho1334]

Well, there is something to say about a large penis. I am not in the 5" is fine club. I think this varies by person. However, if it is too big, when it gets hard, it seems the blood used to fill it comes straight out of the brain...[QUOTE]

sry I had to laugh at that, it was funny.

[QUOTE=dalidaisy;444868]

I do not think that increased girth or pubes are effective clitoral stimulation, either. A varied position can work for any size & the rubbing together of two pelvises in the right spot can do it as well. It is completely possible to have vaginal & clitoral orgasm at the same time. And, it is wonderful. I highly suggest it.

Hmm Interesting. Definately food for thought in our Let's talk about sex thread. but anyway you have given me something to think about and for that I thank you.

[dalidaisy]

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Separate site:


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Are you quoting various sites because you have no experience in this area? I'm curious as to what you are trying to prove with this. Some women can't have vaginal orgasm? I'll agree with you, I guess. Sounds like someone, somewhere found some women to research who happened to have problems with it. Sucks for them...

All I know is that I'd rather learn about this by doing, rather than taking someone else's word for it. If you want to research, look for ways to better stimulate the "G-spot". There are many sites that provide information on locating it, stimulating it & finding ways to enhance the experience.

Here's my advice:


In my experience, the easiest way to locate it is with you on your hands & knees & your partner positioned behind you. Have your partner insert their thumb (best) or finger into your vagina & rub (12 to 6) firmly against the vaginal wall close to the pelvic bone, about 2 to 3 inches in. Using a thumb or finger to find it initially is best, because the spot becomes swollen. Do not tighten your muscles & if it feels like a need to urinate, you are close. Let go, you will not pee. I'm not making any guarantees here. Certainly, the right mindset is crucial. If you tell yourself you can't do it, you won't. Be positive & don't get frustrated. Good luck...






[B]dalidaisy added to this post, 2 minutes and 23 seconds later...

Hmm Interesting. Definately food for thought in our Let's talk about sex thread. but anyway you have given me something to think about and for that I thank you.

Speaking of food...

What's your take on incorporating food into the sexual experience?

[speedsuit721]

Are you quoting various sites because you have no experience in this area?

Hahaha, sex... what's that? I post on an INTJ internet forum and give the guys I have crushes on anagrams for names. Do YOU think I've had sex?

Mostly I am posting this information because it is researched, valid information. Lots of women have problems having vaginal orgasms, not just a handful in a random study. And I think women would be having much better sex if they realized it was normal for them not to orgasm through missionary, vanilla sex. Obey the clit! Being a virgin has given me plenty of time to brush up on research. Also, I have had one guy stick his finger up my feminine canal while we were making out, and boy that doesn't do a damn thing. Why do guys do this? I don't orgasm every time I put a damn tampon in. Why the hell would your finger feel any better?

[dalidaisy]

Mostly I am posting this information because it is researched, valid information.

Mine, too... ;)

Lots of women have problems having vaginal orgasms, not just a handful in a random study.

Yes, but there are numerous reasons why women have issues with it. Now, I understand that there are plenty of women that aren't achieving vaginal orgasm. I don't dispute that. You originally said "...it's a known fact that most women don't orgasm through vaginal penetration (at least Dan Savage says it all the time)." This blanket statement is just wrong. As for the women who have thinner tissue & are thus unable to orgasm, your own source (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) states, "But it’s not all bad news for thay majority of women born without the anatomical blessing, with scientists confident it’s conceivable to “grow” a G-spot through practise." and, “I fully agree that the use makes the organ,” said head researcher Emmanuele Jannini. “I do expect an increase with frequent use.”

And I think women would be having much better sex if they realized it was normal for them not to orgasm through missionary, vanilla sex. Obey the clit!

Normal, maybe. Impossible, certainly not. Better sex can only really be gained from practice & communication. Giving people the idea that there is no G-spot or that only a select few have one is just silly. Each woman should find out for herself.

Being a virgin has given me plenty of time to brush up on research. Also, I have had one guy stick his finger up my feminine canal while we were making out, and boy that doesn't do a damn thing. Why do guys do this? I don't orgasm every time I put a damn tampon in. Why the hell would your finger feel any better?

I'm sorry, but poor you. You must be very young.

Do you use your tampon to massage the walls of your vagina? Do you significantly lubricate it before insertion (it does tend to have a drying effect)? Are you hoping for vaginal orgasm in this manner? I hope not, that's just not what it's for.

As for the guy, well, I'm sure he was probably young, too. If you do not think a finger feels better than a tampon, then there is definitely something wrong. Sticking things in your vagina isn't going to get you much pleasure, though (well, unless they have a motor or or were designed to). You have to stimulate the G-spot to orgasm vaginally.

If you ever find yourself in this situation again, use your research & coach the guy...

[speedsuit721]

Well, I'm 24. So not that young. Second of all, no, I don't use tampons to get off. That's kind of disgusting. I stick them in to catch copious amounts of blood, and that's it.

The guy was 27. But I was 20, so I didn't really have the proverbial balls to tell him what he was doing was not working. And, well, I haven't had a chance to tell anyone since. I'm not comparing a finger to a dick here. But since a finger is most definitely NOT a dick, it would probably would have felt way better if he had massaged the clit instead.

Anyway, I'm just going to bow to your experience, because I can't know everything from reading boring research. And since I don't plan on walking into a random bar to fuck the first loser I see, I don't think I'll be gaining hands-on experience anytime soon.

[Rho1334]

Speaking of food...

What's your take on incorporating food into the sexual experience?

I have no problem incorperating food into sex. Chocolate, strawberry...hell even carrots...whatever makes my mate happy. I have no preference per se on the matter but it sure is alot of fun.

[GraveDancer]

In my opinion if a guy doesn't know what he is doing then the sex will suck for the women. I say this because for me to enjoy sex the women would have to be enjoying it to, ya guys get me? I remember a comic once said "Their is a book called Women Vagina's and How They Work...If their was ever a man version of that it would only be about as big a pamphlet.", or something to that degree. Now a man might know a lot about sex positions, but its no good to have that knowledge if you don't know how women function and how they are different. Of course I only talking about one night stands, now a sexual relationship is pretty much equal I think. Sorry don't have much knowledge on this.

[PeterIMC]

Well, I'm 24. So not that young. Second of all, no, I don't use tampons to get off. That's kind of disgusting. I stick them in to catch copious amounts of blood, and that's it.

The guy was 27. But I was 20, so I didn't really have the proverbial balls to tell him what he was doing was not working. And, well, I haven't had a chance to tell anyone since. I'm not comparing a finger to a dick here. But since a finger is most definitely NOT a dick, it would probably would have felt way better if he had massaged the clit instead.

Anyway, I'm just going to bow to your experience, because I can't know everything from reading boring research. And since I don't plan on walking into a random bar to fuck the first loser I see, I don't think I'll be gaining hands-on experience anytime soon.

Would this be like a female "Performance" battle? lol

[DanteFalling]

What??? Our whole LIVES are dictated by products designed to enhance our sexual appeal. We're expected to be big-titted, tight-assed, skinny, hairless, bleached, make-uped, dyed, waxed, plucked, botoxed and all of it done in tight clothes and hooker heels.

So boohoo for the male enhancement products. What a burden, I'm sure.

LOL

It is overall not a sex-based difference. I do think there is a gender difference. People raised to be passive, F, P, or some combination of the three tend to be pretty damn passive or feel undue need to please only their partner. The opposite tends to be true for people raised to be assertive, T, J, or some combination of those.

I think men in general tend to err on the side of arrogance: thinking they've watched it in porn a thousand times so women are large-breasted, soft, without muscle, hairless, blonde, screaming because they like sex, on their backs, begging for a penis in everything that could conceivably be turned into an orifice, and passive.

Women in general tend to err on the side of caution, "good-girlishness," and passivity. Often women are raised without even knowing what they like sexually or what their own body feels like. Can you imagine the difference in sexual experiences that causes? "I couldn't possibly tell Sam I get distracted when he plays with my chest right before I orgasm or that I wish he'd talk dirty to me a little, etc. He might think I'm dirty/loose/or one of those other pleasant names reserved only for people who appear female."

None of these, oddly enough, has been my personal experience, but then again, I've been mostly with ENFJ, ENTP, INTP, and similar men.

[thod]

There is the assumption that women have some right to an orgasm. Animals don't, the males are in and out in 30 seconds and they don't have hands. The female orgasm serves no biological function, its simply a relic like nipples on men. Men just don't have a clitoral stimulating body design, nor do their dicks vibrate. Those girls that cant orgasm through penetration are just going to have to put up with a clit rub by hand. This isn't the guys fault, he didn't design his body either.

I have seen pics of African tribes where they cut the penis and rub ash into the wounds. This prevents proper healing leaving scarred ridges, supposed to increase female pleasure. I am reluctant to try this myself.

The alternative is to adopt the stance that the mothers of old knew. Sex is mostly about meeting the man's needs, any pleasure she can take from it is a bonus and not a right.

[speedsuit721]

Sex is mostly about meeting the man's needs, any pleasure she can take from it is a bonus and not a right.


Hahahaha, ahhhhh, I'm just going to let that one go because it's obviously a joke. I'll let the women think about it when they're pushing the 7 pound seed of men's loins out of their 1/2 inch wide vaginas so they can populate the world with more selfish, ignorant, assholian men.

[thod]

I'll let the women think about it when they're pushing the 7 pound seed of men's loins out of their 1/2 inch wide vaginas so they can populate the world with more selfish, ignorant, assholian men.

Whatever men are they are the product of women too. She had a father, sons and husband. He had mother, daughters and wife. The women select for genetic traits in their mate selection, they train their sons from their knee. If the resultant male is not what the female wants, it because what she wants is different from what she thinks she wants. We all know how girls talk about the sensitive caring guy yet she prefers to spend her time fucking the outlaw biker that bitch slaps her.

[speedsuit721]

Well, you're the one saying women should only get incidental pleasure from sex if it happens during the process, basically equating them to a walking hole for a man to put his dick into. How would your mother/sister/daughter feel about being treated that way?

[Rudy]

There is the assumption that women have some right to an orgasm. Animals don't, the males are in and out in 30 seconds and they don't have hands. The female orgasm serves no biological function, its simply a relic like nipples on men. Men just don't have a clitoral stimulating body design, nor do their dicks vibrate. Those girls that cant orgasm through penetration are just going to have to put up with a clit rub by hand. This isn't the guys fault, he didn't design his body either.
I mean, technically this is true. However, woman nowadays are in the position to choose their partners more freely than ever before. So, you can choose to take this attitude, but don't be surprised if you can't keep a girlfriend very long.

[Harmony]

There is the assumption that women have some right to an orgasm. Animals don't, the males are in and out in 30 seconds and they don't have hands. The female orgasm serves no biological function, its simply a relic like nipples on men. Men just don't have a clitoral stimulating body design, nor do their dicks vibrate. Those girls that cant orgasm through penetration are just going to have to put up with a clit rub by hand. This isn't the guys fault, he didn't design his body either.

Wow, I've gotten off by friction while enjoying penetration as well. No hand rub needed if you know how to use your body to your advantage during sex.

[Julia]

dalidaisy is my hero. :thumbsup:

I wouldn't be able to answer the OP question, but do suspect the level of importance a person places on sex is one indicator of ability to please a partner. If it's important enough to a person than they will probably continue to develop skill and become continually more pleasing to another person. It won't become routine and boxed in.

[Henry]

OK, so I was having a chat with my sister (also an INTJ) yesterday and she made the comment that this guy she's been dating and recently became intimate with was lousy in bed and wasn't good at following instruction either......lol. This led to a heated exchange regarding which gender in general is more clueless in bed. I know the knee-jerk reaction is men because the onus of performance lies with the male (or at least we're taught to believe that), but I maintain that a good chunk of women, probably the majority is downright abysmal to the point that a date with Palmela would be a better option.

Rants and funny stories are welcome here :)

From what I understand, about half of men know where a clitoris is, about a third know how to stimulate it, about one in twenty can find a g-spot, and about 1/100 know how to bring a woman to a g-spot orgasm.

It is probably easier for a woman - there's one main point of stimulation and one ancillary to stimulate a man, for a woman there are two main points of stimulation and two ancillary - to be "good" in bed, but the end outcome is that more women are able to regularly bring their partners to orgasm.

Men just don't have a clitoral stimulating body design, nor do their dicks vibrate.

Yes, we do. Its called "the pelvic bone". It doesn't lead to orgasm through penetration every time, but at the least it leads to a high state of arousal so you can still help your partner with oral or fingers for a very intense orgasm.

1. Full penetration in missionary
2. Gyrate hips against the upper part of her pelvic area
3. Profit

G-spot orgasms through penetration are going to be highly dependent on the size of your organ, and to regularly give them you're going to need a size that will make most women uncomfortable.

[Antagonist]

There is the assumption that women have some right to an orgasm. Animals don't, the males are in and out in 30 seconds and they don't have hands. The female orgasm serves no biological function, its simply a relic like nipples on men. Men just don't have a clitoral stimulating body design, nor do their dicks vibrate. Those girls that cant orgasm through penetration are just going to have to put up with a clit rub by hand. This isn't the guys fault, he didn't design his body either.

I have seen pics of African tribes where they cut the penis and rub ash into the wounds. This prevents proper healing leaving scarred ridges, supposed to increase female pleasure. I am reluctant to try this myself.

The alternative is to adopt the stance that the mothers of old knew. Sex is mostly about meeting the man's needs, any pleasure she can take from it is a bonus and not a right.

Wow, how clueless are you?

[benvdespot]

There is no better way to learn about sex than doing it & making sure you have a partner who is open to discuss & try new things to increase the pleasure of the experience. My best advice is communication communication, communication.



That's really the important point... gender assumptions & generalizations are pretty counterproductive in bed, after all. Can't really discuss women since I'm a straight female, but IME most men are pretty good at taking technical guidance (faster, slower, ouch, up a bit, right there, please don't bite, let's move b/c I can't feel my legs anymore, etc.) when we give it, but are almost uniformly lousy at <I>making their partners actively want them</I>, which often involves modifying their behavior in other (social, household duties, respect for others' needs) areas. Let's face it, if sex is something that one has to dispense to end a partner's pouting or just one more obligation on an enormous list, there's not much motivation to be active.

A few musings, entirely subjective:

"Performance" as a marketing slogan rarely has anything to do with sexual quality, as far as I can tell. Beyond the extremes of size, endurance, and so on, there's really not much that a product can do for you even if it works as advertised.

Vaginal orgasms aren't worth debating that much, IMO; some people have 'em easily and others never will. Trying to have them is a worthwhile project for couples as long as a backup plan's in place and it's fun. My best advice for achieving one: a partner with a foreskin, but that's just MO.

G-spot: seems to exist, but probably functions differently among women, if at all. If yours is all that's really needed, great; if it enhances your experience (that's me- it doesn't do much as the sole focus except get irritated), that's great too. Don't get hung up on the idea & ignore other things that may work better.

I don't know that many women who admit to sexual passivity, but it seems to be related to a culture that commodifies and constantly judges female sexuality. Getting past the cruder forms of barter and body-image issues would probably help a lot. And wrt casual sex, no one, male or female, should be naive enough to expect anything more than fairly standard cultural baggage and mediocre performances... genuinely lowering inhibitions and developing honest, positive communication takes some time & effort, after all. This is not to say that there <I>aren't</I> genuinely awesome-in-bed, generous, uninhibited short-term partners out there, but they're a lucky find, not a reasonable expectation.

[Lolie]

For me, "clueless"s a willful ignorance thing. If you continue doing something you've been told doesn't work for your partner because it gave your last girlfriend multiple orgasms, then you're "clueless" because you're more concerned about your own perception of your technique than about whether it's pleasure actually pleasurable for the person you're with.

I'd say that the genders are probably pretty equally divided on the willful ignorance thing. I pretty much assume that if people say that something would work better than whatever I'm doing they mean it, and I sure as hell expect them to take notice if I tell them something just isn't working for me (I'll always make a suggestion about an alternative option, though).

I remember once saying about someone I'd been involved with that I'm sure he's had exactly the same fuck with every woman he's been involved with since he was 15 (and probably wanks to a fantasy of that fuck). And I've heard men say similar things about women with whom they've been sexually involved.

FTR, there are men who not only have no problem with teeth but for whom they're an essential factor in any good bj.

I think "clueless" really comes down to giving your own ideas about what people "should" find pleasurable ahead of what they are telling you they find pleasurable. There's an intrinsic arrogance in assuming you know your partner's body better than they do.

[JustMel]

Let me just say upfront that I intend to enjoy this thread and the coming (no pun intended) arguments, insults and disagreements.

It's not a gender thing.... I tend to think it depends on how open you are. Open to listening and open to trying new things... It's the ones that have said "No way am I trying that," that I have found incredibly boring and lousy in the sack.... Can only take missionary so long before I want to strangle myself. :p

Yes, you must be open to new things and positions. Missionary is only good for those times when it's an emotional coupling and you're into the whole eye contact thing and the whole slow thing. The kind of fits in with Dali's comment of having sex without orgasm thought process. I want you close, I want you in me but I don't care if I get off. Otherwise--screw missionary and find something better that provides more movement.

I try to get my wife to watch porn to help her imagination, but of course it offends her. It's gross, offensive, or "fake". I don't care if it's fake, the steak looks and tastes tender and juicy and delicious to the senses.

I don't understand women like this. My husband's ex was one of those. She could have a fling with another woman but wouldn't watch porn because it was "dirty and wrong". Bullshit. It's informative in some cases. visual stimulation is just as important as physical. Of course she was one of those who would only have sex with the lights out too. Where is the fun in that?

I'd just like to say: guys, nipples don't revolve.

Nor does the clitoris. And for the women---the nuts are attached.

It's not a gender thing I think. It's more about the right combination of 2 people. One has to lead, the other has to follow. If both are the same, that doesn't work very well I think.

Bullshit. One of the best kinds of sex is when you don't know who is in control because it keeps changing. Not saying that one person in the lead for the whole show is a bad thing, sometimes it's fun but more fun are the times when you change control between the partners because then neither of you knows what's going to happen next. Something about thinking you're in total control of the situation and then being shown you're not is a rush and turn on for a lot of people.

When both you & your partner can learn to enjoy sex without an orgasm, that's when they get REALLY good (you don't have to try so hard). Personally, I like sex with or without orgasm (but, of course, with is preferred, on both sides). I also like it when they sneak up on you...

See above. I agree.

I mean, technically this is true. However, woman nowadays are in the position to choose their partners more freely than ever before. So, you can choose to take this attitude, but don't be surprised if you can't keep a girlfriend very long.

yep and the toys are better these days too.



I feel for men who end up with women who only lay there and are unwilling to try anything else. At least if men are bad in bed they have the benefit of trying something even if it doesn't work. A woman who doesn't know how to use her kagel muscles during and after orgasm is a woman who needs an education. Sex is not about love. If you love the person you're having sex with it's a bonus. Otherwise sex is to be fun and enjoyable. We won't break if you flip us around and switch positions until you find the right one. I am a firm believer that we have the ability to orgasm and should use it.

I enjoy sex. I enjoyed sex when I was single. If a guy can't take direction because he "knows it all" he is probably not going to get a second chance. If a woman can't take direction she will probably get a second chance but only if he's called everyone else and she's a last resort. I'll never forget my husband asking me if we could try this or that during the first few months we were together and me saying "sure". he finally asked me "is there anything you haven't done" and I replied, "yes, I draw the line at children and animals". He now understands that you can make a request from your partner and it's okay to act on it. He was sexually repressed when we got together because the ex didn't want to try anything. Missionary, lights off, under the covers, no kagel muscles. Ughhh. Why bother?

Sometimes it's the teasing that makes the act more enjoyable. Teasing is an art form and everyone who intends to have enjoyable sex should have to learn how.

Whether they will admit it or not most men would enjoy a woman taking control--if he can let go of his ego long enough to let her or runs into a woman who doesn't care if he likes it or not and just takes it. The not knowing where she's going to take him is exhilirating.

A lot of women, though few will admit it, would prefer to be treated like a queen outside the bedroom with all the pedastal crap etc. However in the bedroom she'd prefer to be treated like a femme fatale. (I was going to say Saturday night whore but no one would get it and I don't want to explain that I'm not calling women whores, especially as I am one) One man said he preferred his women to resemble a quiet, lap kitty outside the bedroom but inside, behind closed doors he wanted a tigress.

Sex is not a spectator sport. Learn to play. Enjoy sex. It's fun and a great stress reliever. People have allowed sex to become taboo and so the enjoyment is supposed to be taboo. What happens behind closed doors between two people who either love each other or lust after each other is between them and nothing should be "wrong" or "dirty" about it. Sex between the aforementioned shouldn't be something to hide.

[dalidaisy]

Hehe, thanks Mel. Insightful as always. I've added some comments below...

Yes, you must be open to new things and positions. Missionary is only good for those times when it's an emotional coupling and you're into the whole eye contact thing and the whole slow thing. The kind of fits in with Dali's comment of having sex without orgasm thought process. I want you close, I want you in me but I don't care if I get off. Otherwise--screw missionary and find something better that provides more movement.

True, but, strangely enough the missionary position allows me to have simulataneous clitoral & vaginal orgasm. If my partner can hold himself off me & let me watch as well, then my mind goes into overdrive & the sensation of orgasm is out of this world. This is my favorite way to end a session of sex. My partner doesn't even have to be fully hard for it.

I don't understand women like this. My husband's ex was one of those. She could have a fling with another woman but wouldn't watch porn because it was "dirty and wrong". Bullshit. It's informative in some cases. visual stimulation is just as important as physical. Of course she was one of those who would only have sex with the lights out too. Where is the fun in that?

I agree that visual stimulation is of paramount importance. Why else would we get all dressed up in lingerie & garters & parade for our partners? Porn is fine, I do not need it, but I can certainly get off to it if it is presented to me. I also like to have erotic stories read to me, to get an aural fixation. Using multiple senses heightens the experience...

Nor does the clitoris. And for the women---the nuts are attached...

What are the women in question DOING to the nuts?

Bullshit. One of the best kinds of sex is when you don't know who is in control because it keeps changing. Not saying that one person in the lead for the whole show is a bad thing, sometimes it's fun but more fun are the times when you change control between the partners because then neither of you knows what's going to happen next. Something about thinking you're in total control of the situation and then being shown you're not is a rush and turn on for a lot of people.

Word!


yep and the toys are better these days too.

They sure are. And there is such variety. I hadn't been in a sex shop in years & I went to one recently. Several floors of toys & clothes & items to increase your sexual pleasure...

I feel for men who end up with women who only lay there and are unwilling to try anything else. At least if men are bad in bed they have the benefit of trying something even if it doesn't work. A woman who doesn't know how to use her kagel muscles during and after orgasm is a woman who needs an education. Sex is not about love. If you love the person you're having sex with it's a bonus. Otherwise sex is to be fun and enjoyable. We won't break if you flip us around and switch positions until you find the right one. I am a firm believer that we have the ability to orgasm and should use it.

I agree with this statement, but I think a lot of peple don't. And, I've seen some of the women that just lay there state that the only reason they do it is for love (i.e. la there & take it to please their partner). How sad.

I enjoy sex...."I draw the line at children and animals". He now understands that you can make a request from your partner and it's okay to act on it.

This leaves open a huge door. It's fun to set the limitations & play in the grey area.

Sometimes it's the teasing that makes the act more enjoyable. Teasing is an art form and everyone who intends to have enjoyable sex should have to learn how.

Word! I haven't met a man who doesn't enjoy a little teasing.

Whether they will admit it or not most men would enjoy a woman taking control--if he can let go of his ego long enough to let her or runs into a woman who doesn't care if he likes it or not and just takes it. The not knowing where she's going to take him is exhilirating.

QFT

Sex is not a spectator sport.

It can be...

[Prunesquallor]

I agree that visual stimulation is of paramount importance. Why else would we get all dressed up in lingerie & garters & parade for our partners? Porn is fine, I do not need it, but I can certainly get off to it if it is presented to me. I also like to have erotic stories read to me, to get an aural fixation. Using multiple senses heightens the experience...


Some people are less visual than others. And it's not always squeamishness or being offended for why people don't like porn, either. It bores the living hell out of me to be honest, and I just start mentally correcting their grammar because there's not enough for my brain to do and it doesn't relax very easily. Or I analyse power relationships and perception and get a little annoyed. It's just not that interesting and kind of irritating.
I don't care if other people watch and I'm not judgmental about it - I just would rather read. Or, you know, have actual sex.

[dalidaisy]

Some people are less visual than others. And it's not always squeamishness or being offended for why people don't like porn, either. It bores the living hell out of me to be honest, and Ijust start mentally correcting their grammar because there's not enough for my brain to do and it doesn't relax very easily. Or I analyse power relationships and perception and get a little annoyed. It's just not that interesting and kind of irritating.
I don't care if other people watch and I'm not judgmental about it - I just would rather read. Or, you know, have actual sex.

Truley, it isn't for all people. I do not suggest that all people should subscribe to the habit of watching it, either. We all have our preferences.

I find my mind wanders as well, just as it does with high budget movies when I find flaws. Which is part of the reason porn isn't something I select on my own. I usually prefer watching my partner while they are enjoying it, to be honest.

[Prunesquallor]

Truley, it isn't for all people. I do not suggest that all people should subscribe to the habit of watching it, either. We all have our preferences.

I find my mind wanders as well, just as it does with high budget movies when I find flaws. Which is part of the reason porn isn't something I select on my own. I usually prefer watching my partner while they are enjoying it, to be honest.

Fair enough.

[NoStoneUnturned]

I think it depends on the individual... also, a man doesn't need much experinence to help him do his thing, while a woman usually needs a man who knows something of what he is doing.

[dalidaisy]

I think it depends on the individual... also, a man doesn't need much experinence to help him do his thing, while a woman usually needs a man who knows something of what he is doing.

Sure, we can also "do our thing" alone, but that doesn't really create the MOST satisfying experience. I think both the man & woman should know what they are doing for sex to be good.

[JustMel]

I think it depends on the individual... also, a man doesn't need much experinence to help him do his thing, while a woman usually needs a man who knows something of what he is doing.

If a dog only knows so many tricks he can't stay on the top of the show circuit. You have to learn new ones and improve on old ones to stay in the running.

Men do need experience. Very few men have any rhythm during sex the first few times. It's an aquired skill not an instinctual one because everyone has their own "right" rhythm.

Women need experience because "most" men (that I know) prefer a woman who is interactive and that's something you learn through experience and instinct.

Great lovers are not born, they are made.