Come here to ask women for dating advice

[ElstonGunn]

But isn't the real problem here that she just didn't want to be more?

I guess so, aside from the part about how what I like in a friend isn't the same as what I like in a girlfriend.

I feel awkward after being on the receiving end of a rejection like that, largely because I feel bad being on the giving end of it. My thoughts generally end up turning into something like, "Dang, now she must feel weird being around this bozo who likes her. That can't be enjoyable for her. She's probably worried about how I'm going to start acting now."

[Princess Leia]

If things go sour, I can lose an acquaintance without any trouble, but a friend (or co-worker) is someone who I most likely depend on to a much greater extent.
Yep, this.

Great friends don't always make great lovers. I would hate to lose a valued confidante over things that can be deal breakers in a relationship: sexual incompatibility, different living habits, different plans for the future - stuff that you don't need to take into consideration when choosing friends.

I really don't see why it's harder to make the leap?
I find it harder to make the leap because I separate platonic friends and boyfriends into two groups. The way I build friendships is different from the way I build love relationships. With friends, I prefer minimal conflict, similar interests, less volatility... it's just easier to build a foundation that way. If we're fighting 24/7, why in the world are we friends?

I don't mind conflicts and challenges in romantic relationships because I understand that attraction can be irrational. I value assertiveness and confidence more in a boyfriend. From a more technical standpoint, I guess I can say that I prefer some types as friends (e.g. INTJ, ISFJ and so on) and others as boyfriends (ENTJ, ENTP) Friends and romantic interests are playing totally different ballgames.

Shit, what's with me and long posts? I need a good dose of Te.

[intjdude]

I find it harder to make the leap because I separate platonic friends and boyfriends into two groups. The way I build friendships is different from the way I build love relationships. With friends, I prefer minimal conflict, similar interests, less volatility... it's just easier to build a foundation that way. If we're fighting 24/7, why in the world are we friends?

hmmm.. don't you want these things in a romantic relationship too?


I got a feeling you are a hormonal junkie ;D It's almost like you are purposefully looking for instability in romantic relationships? Anotherwords, you are looking for mostly 'excitement' at whatever cost, no?

Attraction seems fairly rational to me actually... and excitement is attractive yes but without those other things you mentioned in the friends category I don't see it working long term.





intjdude added to this post, 18 minutes and 46 seconds later...


I feel awkward after being on the receiving end of a rejection like that, largely because I feel bad being on the giving end of it. My thoughts generally end up turning into something like, "Dang, now she must feel weird being around this bozo who likes her. That can't be enjoyable for her. She's probably worried about how I'm going to start acting now."

i understand what you mean but I wonder if it's how you act afterwords that may affect the relationship more... anotherwords, if neither one of you changes behavior then technically nothing has changed other than you telling her that you 'utterly love her'.. haha... you are right that some people just can't take that kind of honesty... but personally, if it's my friend who can't handle that honesty and deal with it then she/he has a 'dumping' coming to them anyway...

i think if you both keep the friendship boundaries afterwards you should be fine...

[Princess Leia]

hmmm.. don't you want these things in a romantic relationship too?

I got a feeling you are a hormonal junkie :D It's almost like you are purposefully looking for instability in romantic relationships? Anotherwords, you are looking for mostly 'excitement' at whatever cost, no?
I like emotional stability (that's why I'm not really drawn into strong Fe types - geez, it's like a permanent case of male PMS) but I also value personal growth. Conflicts and differences can destroy relationships but they can also catalyze progress. If I wanted to date my clone, I'd just buy a vibrator. Things may be comfortable but they'd always remain at the same level. I don't wanna get stuck in a rut.

I suppose I am looking for excitement but only as long as it will help us move forward. I won't tolerate abuse or an illogical lifestyle (e.g. it may be "exciting" to be a Playboy bunny, but that's not doing anything for me). I just said I prefer dating the bolder types because they're the ones who are willing to speak up. I need constructive feedback even if it means breaking the calm. As an ENTP female I tend to intimidate extremely introverted guys (even though I usually find them adorable); on the outside everything seems fine and comfortable, but inside I may be mentally and verbally castrating them. Obviously I don't wanna do that. That's why I think it's better to get everything out in the open now as opposed to ten years down the line when we're married and have 10 children.

[runoverazebra]

Normally, I don't ask for dating/relationship advice. I just flounder around awkwardly until I figure it out, but I'm really out of my league here.

Two weeks ago I was home for Spring Break. One of my male friends who happens to be an INTJ asked me to hang out via facebook. I was not under the impression that this was a date, although he was, so it was awkward at first. Things worked out; we both enjoyed ourselves. He tickled me, and I didn't punch him in the face. We went out 3 more times when I was home. He asked me to go to a friend's wedding with him. The wedding was 2.5 hours away. We talked the entire way there and back. At the reception, he didn't really talk to me at all, but overall it was a good time. We both agreed to go out again at some other point. He canceled on me last weekend, and I asked him if he wanted to hang out this weekend. He responded by saying, "Kind of."

I'm really confused about what 'kind of' means. Any suggestions?

[ElstonGunn]

i understand what you mean but I wonder if it's how you act afterwords that may affect the relationship more...

I'm sure it's at least partly (more likely closer to 'almost completely') a self-fulfilling prophecy kind of things. I usually back off because of not wanting to make her feel uncomfortable, which probably makes her think that I'm acting weird. I think it's easier for me to just avoid that who situation by not dating friends.

[Rudy]

I'm really confused about what 'kind of' means. Any suggestions?

It's possible he's distracted by a personal problem of some kind.

However, it's more likely that he's lost interest and is too much of a wimp to say so directly. This isn't definite, though, so don't give up yet.

[runoverazebra]

However, it's more likely that he's lost interest and is too much of a wimp to say so directly.

That is kind of what I figured, but I am generally inept at reading people. I was hoping it meant something else. Lack of interest seems to be the simplest way to explain it. It looks like I'll be applying Occam's Razor to my love life.

[intjdude]

Normally, I don't ask for dating/relationship advice. I just flounder around awkwardly until I figure it out, but I'm really out of my league here.

Two weeks ago I was home for Spring Break. One of my male friends who happens to be an INTJ asked me to hang out via facebook. I was not under the impression that this was a date, although he was, so it was awkward at first. Things worked out; we both enjoyed ourselves. He tickled me, and I didn't punch him in the face. We went out 3 more times when I was home. He asked me to go to a friend's wedding with him. The wedding was 2.5 hours away. We talked the entire way there and back. At the reception, he didn't really talk to me at all, but overall it was a good time. We both agreed to go out again at some other point. He canceled on me last weekend, and I asked him if he wanted to hang out this weekend. He responded by saying, "Kind of."

I'm really confused about what 'kind of' means. Any suggestions?

Odd.. i don't really know but I would try to resolve it quickly and painlessly by asking him directly if he wants to go back to being just friends. Think of all the time (and stress) you'll save. If that's not what he meant, he'll explain.

Something like:
"I don't know what 'kind of' really means... does it mean that you are busy or that you want to be 'friends only'?"

[Harmony]

I've always been opposed to the "Friends first" approach when "friends" means actual friends, rather than acquaintances. I also have reservations about dipping into the company ink for similar reasons. If things go sour, I can lose an acquaintance without any trouble, but a friend (or co-worker) is someone who I most likely depend on to a much greater extent. I'd rather maintain the relationship role that I've become accustomed to with that person than risk gumming it up with romance. That's just me, though. I know plenty of great romances that were born out of friendship.

Ditto there! I will not date within my work place. I have done it in the past and it did not turn out well. When we split it just made a lot of things complicated at work. It even split people into cliques... Those that stayed friends with me and those that stayed friends with him. That made it even worse. I ultimately just avoid it altogether now.

[Rho1334]

Ditto there! I will not date within my work place. I have done it in the past and it did not turn out well. When we split it just made a lot of things complicated at work. It even split people into cliques... Those that stayed friends with me and those that stayed friends with him. That made it even worse. I ultimately just avoid it altogether now.

Been there too...it got to the point where I had to drop all of them. I don't date within my work place becuase not only does it get complicated but if you are in the relationship and one of you gets promoted it puts a huge strain on the relationship. Not to mention in most states its illegal for supervisors to date thier subordinates.

[ghost15]

Don't have anything to add but wanted to say thanks to those that contributed (especially the girls/women) lots of interesting information to read.

Haven’t been around long enough to share any of my… one story on the topic.

[Jinxu]

Why are women sneaky when it comes to checking out potential mates? I'm asking because I see often women pretending not to acknowledge a guy immediately, but instead waiting for him to pass by before taking a peek.

[Prunesquallor]

Why are women sneaky when it comes to checking out potential mates? I'm asking because I see often women pretending not to acknowledge a guy immediately, but instead waiting for him to pass by before taking a peek.

Are you sure they notice him right away? Maybe they're just oblivious? Or busy.
Or is that just me....

[Jinxu]

Are you sure they notice him right away? Maybe they're just oblivious? Or busy.

I'm pretty sure they noticed because they immediately peek once they are sure the guy can't see them.

[Prunesquallor]

I'm pretty sure they noticed because they immediately peek once they are sure the guy can't see them.

Ok then.
Maybe it has something to do with not liking the idea of sleazily leering at people. More girls than guys, in my experience, tend to call things sleazy, and to think that sleaziness is unpleasant. Maybe they're just trying to be subtle?

[Jinxu]

Maybe it has something to do with not liking the idea of sleazily leering at people. More girls than guys, in my experience, tend to call things sleazy, and to think that sleaziness is unpleasant. Maybe they're just trying to be subtle?

That's reasonable. From my perspective, I think it's because they are shy.

[Prunesquallor]

That's reasonable. From my perspective, I think it's because they are shy.

Shy girls will do that too, probably. Or just introverts, if they dislike eye contact. And probably some extraverts too, for the sleazy reason.

[wotsamattaU]

They are being Tactful. Many disdain outright staring/appraising.

Boldness = Brash, Cheap, Tacky (and the aforementioned) Sleazy.

[Jinxu]

They are being Tactful. Many disdain outright staring/appraising.

Boldness = Brash, Cheap, Tacky (and the aforementioned) Sleazy.

That does make more sense. Also, what do you think goes through a girl's mind if an attractive guy is staring at them? Especially, if the guy is giving them "the look."

[Maayan]

That's reasonable. From my perspective, I think it's because they are shy.

You wish.

They might also be interested enough to look but not interested enough to welcome an advance.





Maayan added to this post, 2 minutes and 44 seconds later...

That does make more sense. Also, what do you think goes through a girl's mind if an attractive guy is staring at them? Especially, if the guy is giving them "the look."

It depends on my relationship with the person and on the context. Say, your average stranger at a coffee shop:

1. "I look hot today."
2. "Whatever. He doesn't even know me."
3. "I hope he's not going to come over and talk to me. I just want to be alone and do my homework in peace."
4. "He looks constipated."

[Jinxu]

It depends on my relationship with the person and on the context. Say, your average stranger at a coffee shop:


Okay, what about if it's at a club or bar setting?

[Prunesquallor]

Okay, what about if it's at a club or bar setting?

"Oh god, I hope he doesn't lick my face of hump my leg"

It does happen. I've heard stories.

Or, if you're drunk: "wooooooo! hot guy yeah!! dancing hahahaha!!! woooo!!!!!! BEEEER!"
(theoretically. observational data only. I don't drink.)

[wotsamattaU]

If you give them 'the Look' and then smile when you catch her eye, that's an invitation. If she smiles back at you, it's your invite to come on over.

If you think you are giving them 'the Look' but never smile, what comes across is creepy and disturbing.

[Jinxu]

If you give them 'the Look' and then smile when you catch her eye, that's an invitation. If she smiles back at you, it's your invite to come on over.

If you think you are giving them 'the Look' but never smile, what comes across is creepy and disturbing.


What should a guy do if a girl is giving him "the look"? What are some things that he can do?

[wotsamattaU]

(Assuming you are clubbing or in a bar) if a girl gives you 'the Look' and you are interested, look back at her and smile. If she returns the smile, or looks down or away and quickly looks back at you - it's On. That is your cue to approach her.

[Jinxu]

Are you a women? You seem to be knowledgeable in this subject. But then again I know a confirmed INFJ male that is knowledgeable too. Maybe an INTx and an INFx can work together to be a more efficient team?

[wotsamattaU]

Yes, I'm a woman. :bow:





wotsamattaU added to this post, 0 minutes and 39 seconds later...

Maybe an INTx and an INFx can work together to be a more efficient team?

Absolutely.

[Jinxu]

Yes, I'm a woman. :bow:


I knew it! You've been giving answers that I was expecting. Even ones I wasn't. :)





Jinxu added to this post, 2 minutes and 31 seconds later...

Also, are you an attractive woman?

[wotsamattaU]

Why yes, yes I am.

Also married.

But thank you for asking. ;)

[Jinxu]

Here's another question:

Let's say there's two type of girls you are attracted to. Type A and Type B. Both of them have different personalities and appearances. And you like both of them but at different time. Meaning you'll like Type A one week, but next week you'll like Type B more, then Type A the next week, and so on. How can you commit to just one?

[ElstonGunn]

If you give them 'the Look' and then smile when you catch her eye, that's an invitation. If she smiles back at you, it's your invite to come on over.

Okay. If a man looks at a woman and she smiles, then he should go over to her.


(Assuming you are clubbing or in a bar) if a girl gives you 'the Look' and you are interested, look back at her and smile. If she returns the smile, or looks down or away and quickly looks back at you - it's On. That is your cue to approach her.

Alright. If a woman looks at a man and smiles, then he should go over to her.


So my question is, why is it so hard for women to go over to men? Don't their legs work? Do they all have polio or something?

[Rho1334]

So my question is, why is it so hard for women to go over to men? Don't their legs work? Do they all have polio or something?


Its another one of those social holdovers that we have yet to dispell. Alot of peoples definitions in relationship and dating are stuck back in the 50's, give it about 100 years and all should be equal.

[firebee]

Here's another question:

Let's say there's two type of girls you are attracted to. Type A and Type B. Both of them have different personalities and appearances. And you like both of them but at different time. Meaning you'll like Type A one week, but next week you'll like Type B more, then Type A the next week, and so on. How can you commit to just one?

Clearly, you commit to one per week. Or date crazy people, but that has a few drawbacks.

[Polymath]

So my question is, why is it so hard for women to go over to men? Don't their legs work? Do they all have polio or something?

The usual explanation is that the guy being the initiator reflects a bunch of survival/prosperity traits (confidence, outgoing-ness, willingness to take the initiative etc. etc.). If said traits aren't still advantageous to survival, they were for the vast majority of human history, so girls who find the traits attractive have been naturally selected for. I'd say it's more than just a social convention that girls tend to wait to see if guys will approach them.

[Jinxu]

Clearly, you commit to one per week. Or date crazy people, but that has a few drawbacks.

What about dating multiple people at the same time? Can you do that?





Jinxu added to this post, 601 minutes and 52 seconds later...

How can a guy keep himself from getting bored with a girl after 4 to 8 weeks of dating?

[Prunesquallor]

How can a guy keep himself from getting bored with a girl after 4 to 8 weeks of dating?

Date someone you actually like?

[Jinxu]

Date someone you actually like?

That's the problem.

[Prunesquallor]

That's the problem.
get a lot of cats, then...

[Jinxu]

get a lot of cats, then...

I like your idea of dating only people you are attracted to, but not necessary want for a long-term relationship. That way you avoid getting hurt if things don't work out. Alternatively, if you want to date someone you do like, I guess you can make it a priority not to get too attached.

Another method could be that while you're dating someone, you continue to look for other "opportunities" to use for backups in case you decide to break it off or they break up with you.

[Prunesquallor]

....what?

[Jinxu]

....what?

I assume that's what you were implying with you cat analogy.

[Prunesquallor]

I don't understand your phrasing at all.

...or did you mean wait for a long-term relationship?

Anyway, what I really mean is:
If you choose to date people casually whom you are not deeply madly in love with and all that, chances are you are going to not enjoy every waking moment you spend with them. Indeed, that would also be the case in a real love relationship, but is probably a lot more of a factor in a casual relationship with someone you only mildly like slash barely know but they have cute tits. You are, inevitably, going to get bored with them, since you didn't like them that much to begin with. Your options are:

suck it up already
don't date casually

If you choose to date casually, then accept the consequences of that choice. Don't be a frikkin' whiner.

[Jinxu]

If you choose to date casually, then accept the consequences of that choice. Don't be a frikkin' whiner.

What makes you think I'm whining....? Anyway, I've added more details. Maybe you should read it again.

It seems we are diverging on our theories on dating.

[Prunesquallor]

What makes you think I'm whining....? Anyway, I've added more details. Maybe you should read it again.

It's still poorly phrased.

I simply said don't do it. (whine, that is)
You make a choice, you accept the consequences.
If you date boring people casually, you're going to get bored.

You can accept that.
You can not date boring people.
Or you can go through them really quickly.
Or you can bring a book.

But you can't date boring people long-term and not get bored if you pay any attention to them. And chances are, they'll make you pay attention. So that would be impossible.

[Jinxu]

Boring is a relative term and varies among individual. I don't have any problems with casual dating. Why do you think it is bad?

[Prunesquallor]

Boring is a relative term and varies among individual[s].

You were the one who said you got bored!!!!
Jeez man, try to follow Grice's conversational maxim's occasionally.





Prunesquallor added to this post, 2 minutes and 45 seconds later...

I don't have any problems with casual dating. Why do you think it is wrong?

I don't think it's wrong. I never said that.

You asked how to avoid getting bored by someone quickly. I said, date someone you like. You said, that's a problem. I said: ok, if you still want to date, and you apparently can't find these non-boring people, accept that you will be bored, since you're making the choice to still date this pool of boring people which is apparently all you have access to, according to you.

Are we clear yet? This is what I am saying.
If I misunderstood you, please do clarify.

[Jinxu]

You were the one who said you got bored!!!!


The person doesn't necessarily have to be boring for a guy to become bored with. You're assuming the root cause is in the girl when it could be the guy.

[Prunesquallor]

The person doesn't necessarily have to be boring for a guy to become bored with. You're assuming the root cause is in the girl when it could be the guy.

Ok.
Take Ritalin then.

Or accept that you will be bored, since you don't have an attention span.
Love yourself!
Ok, maybe that last is a bit much...

[Jinxu]

Ok.
Take Ritalin then.

Now you're assuming the guy is depressed. And you may also be assuming that all guys want to be monogamous.

[Prunesquallor]

Now you're assuming the guy is depressed.

noooooooo Ritalin's for ADD, silly
Depression treatment is an off-label use.

If dating is so boring, why do you want to do it, anyway? Just hormones?

[Jinxu]

Ok.
Or accept that you will be bored, since you don't have an attention span.
Love yourself!


You may be assuming that all INTJ can form deep emotional attachment and are capable of feeling love. Which is not necessarily true due to the "T".





Jinxu added to this post, 0 minutes and 40 seconds later...


If dating is so boring, why do you want to do it, anyway? Just hormones?

Exactly. It's your genes that influences your behavior. :)

[Prunesquallor]

You may be assuming that all INTJ can form deep emotional attachment and are capable of feeling love. Which is not necessarily true due to the "T". no I'm not, and it's not the T. I'm very strong T and I don't have that issue. That would be a pathology of some kind. (Also, elements of that post were facetious.)

Exactly. It's your genes that influences your behavior. :)

I don't know how you got to genes, but I'm going to ignore that...so you want to get laid a lot but with lots of different women. Congratulations. This is not that rare. Be a player. Take up polyamory. Cheat. Date someone with MPD. Space out and ignore who you're with - it's hard to be bored if you're not paying attention. Stick to fuck buddies. Take advantage of weak emotional people who are too intimidated to complain you're using them. Strike up an arrangement with girls with a strong sex drive who want no commitments. There are a million and one ways to go about this - pick one that goes with your moral structure and your lifestyle and have fun. How complicated is this? If you decide what you want then you know whom to target.
It helps, though, if you don't treat girls like a single homogenous group who all act and think the same. Just fyi.

[Jinxu]

Okay, I guess it's time to clarify the original question. What I meant was how can you possibility commit to just one when you have so many options? By this I mean, you are equally attracted to more than just one. It doesn't necessarily mean you want to get laid a lot, but only by the ones you like.

[Prunesquallor]

Okay, I guess it's time to clarify the original question. How can you possibility commit to just one when you have so many options? By this I mean, you are equally attracted to more than just one.

You can commit to one when the benefits outweigh the losses.
There are people who are tortured by 'might-have-beens.' Others are not, or are to a lesser degree. The stability of having made a decision is something us Js know something about, and to have one person to rely on is nice, a relationship can be nice, etc etc. By picking only one, you gain something, even as you lose the unreality, the possibility of what you might have had with the other.

Some people are better at deciding than others, and some people are better at juggling options. Some of us hate making decisions until we are sure. You have to decide which you'd rather do and go with it. It's fully possible to take either side in an abstract sense - in your situation, only you know which works best.

..or maybe polyamory's for you? But the girls you're into have to be up for that.

[Jinxu]

I've already decided. Problem is what you want tend to alternate with one another each week.

How old are you btw?

[Prunesquallor]

I've already decided. Problem is what you want tend to alternate with one another each week.

I don't understand. Either you've decided, and if so you've taken into account your tendency to alternate, (in which case you're whining), or you decide anew each week (in which case it's not a decision).

How old are you btw?

As old as my tongue and a little bit older than my teeth.

[Jinxu]

It's best not to make any long-term commitments.

[wotsamattaU]

So my question is, why is it so hard for women to go over to men? Don't their legs work? Do they all have polio or something?

Beyond the social conditioning many parents give their daughters, I agree with Polymath's input below.

The usual explanation is that the guy being the initiator reflects a bunch of survival/prosperity traits (confidence, outgoing-ness, willingness to take the initiative etc. etc.). If said traits aren't still advantageous to survival, they were for the vast majority of human history, so girls who find the traits attractive have been naturally selected for. I'd say it's more than just a social convention that girls tend to wait to see if guys will approach them.

If a man has enough fortitude to introduce himself to her, he is also likely to be able to stand up to others to protect her, have enough drive to provide for her and their children, be vested enough to be active in the relationship and not take a passive stance.

There are of course, females who will approach men and I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that. They are not in the majority, so good luck finding one. If you want to wait around until one discovers you for the amazing person you are, cobwebs may gather.

I was pointing out the GO signals. When you receive these from a woman, know you have at the very least piqued her interest. What you do with that is up to you. A GO signal = the odds of your attentions being favorably received are very good! This is eliminating a lot of the risk factor for you.

Elston, as an introverted intuitive myself - and a shy one at that - I do empathize with the male's plight. Your dogged determination that the woman should do the approaching has me wondering if what you need/desire is someone who has more of an aggressor stance overall in a relationship. Realize that a woman who does approach a man will also very likely have no problem wrestling for control. She is less likely to cede final say in a matter to you without a rousing battle. I understand such pairings can be successful with both partners quite happy with such an arrangement. It just makes me wonder if this quest for a strong female approach is just for ease of breaking the ice, or is it indicative of the role they will play within the partnership - one which may have her taking the lead in most things.


What about dating multiple people at the same time? Can you do that?


Casual dating (as long as you openly discuss this with the people involved) is perfectly acceptable. It's how much of the population tries on relationships and learns what works for them and what doesn't. You learn a lot about yourself in the process, what qualities you require in a partner. Realize in casual dating the woman is also free to date others at the same time as you. If you are respectful of their feelings and take them into consideration (not being out to just use them/dump them) i.e. caring what happens to them - then it should be fine. The important thing is everyone knowing where they stand with one another.

If you see an opportunity with someone who is in a committed relationship, think about how stepping between them would affect everyone long term. Don't just think about your pleasure, your needs. See how the manner in which you treat others affects things long term. (If you are cruel to someone it will affect their future relationships, and so on.) Treat them as you would wish to be treated.

Jinxu added to this post, 601 minutes and 52 seconds later...

How can a guy keep himself from getting bored with a girl after 4 to 8 weeks of dating?

What do you want out of the dating? Are you looking for companionship for going to events, museums and such? Do you want someone to hang with along with a group of friends just casually? At this point it doesn't sound as if you're searching for a life partner. If boredom threatens be prepared to tell her it's not working out. By keeping a lot going on around you (events, music, places of learning, friends) it keeps the focus off just the two of you, helps you to bond as you are experiencing things together and breaks up any staleness because of all the varied sensory input around you.

[OneHertz]

Why date at all? You are just looking for sex right? You don't need to date for that. In fact, it would be much easier and cheaper not to "date" for that. Girls WANT to have sex, they just need to justify it in their minds, and for this they have to not feel like a "slut".

Casually meet some girls you find attractive through school/work. Proper choosing is actually very important. They can't be smart. Below average intelligence is good. After you have talked to them a few times on different days, ask them out for coffee or something. Put on a mask that you think they will like. If you have made a proper choice at the start, then they won't be able to tell. After coffee just say good bye. Give them a call two days later and ask to go for dinner. Try to make the silly female have a good time with lots of laughs and make sure to be touching her all the time to build physical comfort. Afterward they would either be up for sex or not; they'll send signals. This depends on how much you made them laugh, how much and how well you touched them, and how good of a choice you made at the start.

Keep trying until you succeed!

[Jinxu]

Why date at all? You are just looking for sex right? You don't need to date for that. In fact, it would be much easier and cheaper not to "date" for that. Girls WANT to have sex, they just need to justify it in their minds, and for this they have to not feel like a "slut".!

I'm looking for both sex and emotional companionship. Just not long-term.

Having sex with a lot of partners is not that satisfying to me and it's time consuming to go out to find new ones.

Also, having to put on a mask and pretending to be interested annoys me.

[Rho1334]

"sex and emotional companionship" may not be possible without the longterm. I find that women like a future and no having on may not give you the sex and emotional companionship you require.

[Jinxu]

Hence why I asked the question: "How can you tell a women that you're only want to date and am not interested in anything long-term?"

but, no one answered.

[Prunesquallor]

Hence why I asked the question: "How can you tell a women that you're only want to date and am not interested in anything long-term?"

but, no one answered.

What's wrong with "I only want to date and am not interested in anything long-term" ?

[Jinxu]

What's wrong with "I only want to date and am not interested in anything long-term" ?

How do you ask that and get them to agree to continue dating?





Jinxu added to this post, 1 minutes and 51 seconds later...


Also, having to put on a mask and pretending to be interested annoys me.

That could be doable if you only need to screw for a couple of days out of the month. If you get what I mean.





Jinxu added to this post, 1 minutes and 29 seconds later...


Keep trying until you succeed!

Also, going to a club or bar is a better alternatively in that you can get results quicker if you know how to play it well.

[Rho1334]

What's wrong with "I only want to date and am not interested in anything long-term" ?

I agree, Jinxu if you are upfront about it you may get results. People like to know what they are getting into before they jump in so honesty and being upfront about it may win out in the end. It's best to tell them right off instead of midway through the relationship...

[Prunesquallor]

How do you ask that and get them to agree to continue dating?

Wellllll....they'd have to want to continue dating.
If they don't, tough luck.
There's no magic formula.

I mean, you could lie and then suddenly dump them, but that probably won't go over well.

To be perfectly honest, many many people, even if they prefer long term, will accept short term not serious type relationships, if that's all they can get - often because they're convinced they'll be able to change your mind as time passes. Occasionally because it's better than nothing. Sometimes because they're ok with it.

[Xackery]

I can't possibly read and catch up on this article, but, as an INTJ.. (Which, apparantly, socially I come over as a very nice INTJ, ass-kissery personality is what I try for, but it seems to make me come off as more sociable, haha.)

I've had girls ask me out before. It's pretty rare, but it usually is because due to my lack of noticing them liking me they will constantly give me signs and flirt and I totally miss them until they give up on waiting and just ask me to get things moving.

I usually keep my dating open ended. I have no idea what I want out of a relationship, usually, and I try to keep myself entertained with the possibilities, even though most of the time I set up the limitations of the relationship before even actually forming a complete decision on what I think of the girl.

Hardest part about dating is the amount of commitment I have to focus on. It's a redundant, daily task, and half the time I don't really CARE what you did today, but I know most girls tend to enjoy hearing a guy ask that question, so, I will ask and try hard to make a game out of it in my head to keep me entertained. If you sacrifice and work on that trait, at least, girls absolutely love attention when in the dating aspect. I find if I give someone I date plenty of attention, and say what I think while censoring the bad stuff, they rarely dislike me. Too bad I don't always like them. Or I should say, eventually after they feel I have commited myself, I will change my habits to my typical ones (using telling them prior I'm going to change), and they will get to see my true self and that's usually when things break off. Haha.

My question is, what personality type should I look for as an INTJ?

[Rho1334]

I can't possibly read and catch up on this article, but, as an INTJ.. (Which, apparantly, socially I come over as a very nice INTJ, ass-kissery personality is what I try for, but it seems to make me come off as more sociable, haha.)

I've had girls ask me out before. It's pretty rare, but it usually is because due to my lack of noticing them liking me they will constantly give me signs and flirt and I totally miss them until they give up on waiting and just ask me to get things moving.

I usually keep my dating open ended. I have no idea what I want out of a relationship, usually, and I try to keep myself entertained with the possibilities, even though most of the time I set up the limitations of the relationship before even actually forming a complete decision on what I think of the girl.

Hardest part about dating is the amount of commitment I have to focus on. It's a redundant, daily task, and half the time I don't really CARE what you did today, but I know most girls tend to enjoy hearing a guy ask that question, so, I will ask and try hard to make a game out of it in my head to keep me entertained. If you sacrifice and work on that trait, at least, girls absolutely love attention when in the dating aspect. I find if I give someone I date plenty of attention, and say what I think while censoring the bad stuff, they rarely dislike me. Too bad I don't always like them. Or I should say, eventually after they feel I have commited myself, I will change my habits to my typical ones (using telling them prior I'm going to change), and they will get to see my true self and that's usually when things break off. Haha.

My question is, what personality type should I look for as an INTJ?

I find INTJ or ISTJ to be my type, find E's annoying.

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[Jinxu]

Hardest part about dating is the amount of commitment I have to focus on. It's a redundant, daily task, and half the time I don't really CARE what you did today, but I know most girls tend to enjoy hearing a guy ask that question, so, I will ask and try hard to make a game out of it in my head to keep me entertained.

Ha. I have the same issue. I really am not interested in other people's lives and am not capable of giving the full attention and commitment needed in a relationship. I can only pretend to be interested for a certain amount of time before I become drained. If it wasn't for the need for companionship and sex, I would be perfectly fine. I don't have that need to go out every week either. Also, it does get lonely from time to time and there is that desire to find someone to love. But those are just mood swings and it passes eventually is what I've come to realized. Furthermore, a relationship would means less time for my other hobbies.

[ElstonGunn]

Beyond the social conditioning many parents give their daughters, I agree with Polymath's input below.

If a man has enough fortitude to introduce himself to her, he is also likely to be able to stand up to others to protect her, have enough drive to provide for her and their children, be vested enough to be active in the relationship and not take a passive stance.

So just the usual cultural brainwashing and logical non-sequitors, huh?


Elston, as an introverted intuitive myself - and a shy one at that - I do empathize with the male's plight. Your dogged determination that the woman should do the approaching has me wondering if what you need/desire is someone who has more of an aggressor stance overall in a relationship. Realize that a woman who does approach a man will also very likely have no problem wrestling for control. She is less likely to cede final say in a matter to you without a rousing battle.

First of all, I don't insist that Gender A should be required to do the approaching in all (or most) situations. That's the exact thing that makes me so frustrated/angry. Gender shouldn't be a factor at all in who does the approaching. It's stupid, sexist, and mind-boggling to me that some people actually think the presence or lack of a Y chromosome means that a person's role is pre-determined for them in these situations. If you don't want to approach for whatever reason, fine. I refuse to do it, but I don't hide behind gender and limiting social conventions because of it. And I don't piss and moan about how hard it is to meet someone because I know damn well that refusing to approach severely limits my options and I have only myself to blame for that.

My position is that if you're interested in someone, you can either do the approaching or not. If you do it and it doesn't work out, then you have to accept feeling rejected. If you don't do it, you have no right to complain about the other person's lack of action.

Secondly, I don't understand why people are so comfortable taking the concept of the woman approaching and extrapolating it all willy-nilly into a general pattern and nature of the relationship. In my current relationship, the female did the approaching, inasmuch as there was any approaching. The assumption that she seeks to control the day-to-day issues in the relationship couldn't be more wrong. She certainly doesn't attempt to do it unilaterally or with little consideration of my input. If anything, it seems like she's generally willing to defer to me when a decision has to be made about something that she's either indifferent about or that we mildly disagree on. (And I do the same when I'm indifferent or slightly opposed to something she really wants.)

[Jinxu]

to ElstonGunn: I've read an article with a woman saying that she consider males approaching as a litmus test for masculinity.

[wotsamattaU]

First of all, I don't insist that Gender A should be required to do the approaching in all (or most) situations. That's the exact thing that makes me so frustrated/angry. Gender shouldn't be a factor at all in who does the approaching. It's stupid, sexist, and mind-boggling to me that some people actually think the presence or lack of a Y chromosome means that a person's role is pre-determined for them in these situations.

Thing is, the stereotype does exist in many places. So what can you do about it? Raise awareness? Rail at the masses about the injustice of it all?


Secondly, I don't understand why people are so comfortable taking the concept of the woman approaching and extrapolating it all willy-nilly into a general pattern and nature of the relationship.

So you are pro equal opportunity ice breaking, and are not striving for taking a more passive stance in a relationship. Just clarifying. In your eyes, these are two very separate things.

I brought it up because I have seen this first hand with several couples I know (male passive/female aggressive). It works for them, I've no problems with it. In those instances they are very strong willed women, who rule their roost and will have their say no matter what. Their men defer to them. I was thinking along the lines of 'be careful of what you wish for' due to this if this was something one was not after. They can go hand in hand. Not always, but some times they do.

I am very happy for the two of you and how wonderfully everything is flowing. It sounds as if it is perfect for you both.

to ElstonGunn: I've read an article with a woman saying that she consider males approaching as a litmus test for masculinity. Imo there is some truth to that. Obviously it is not true for all women, but I would imagine it would be for a fair share.

[Prunesquallor]

to ElstonGunn: I've read an article with a woman saying that she consider males approaching as a litmus test for masculinity.

I've read an article saying that women with bigger breasts are smarter. I've read articles about people being abducted by aliens.

People are appallingly individual.

Yes, that one's a bit of a stereotype, but there's no sense believing to much in those.

[Jinxu]

Yes, that one's a bit of a stereotype, but there's no sense believing to much in those.

I'm gonna have to agree with wotsamattaU. People in general share some commonalities no matter how much of an "individual" they are.

[Prunesquallor]

I'm gonna have to agree with wotsamattaU. People in general share some commonalities no matter how much of an "individual" they are.

That sentence is an inane platitude.
If you want to believe stereotypes, go ahead, but it's no wonder you find your girls boring so quickly, because that's the kind of people you'll end up with.

[Jinxu]

That sentence is an inane platitude.
If you want to believe stereotypes, go ahead, but it's no wonder you find your girls boring so quickly, because that's the kind of people you'll end up with.

You claim to be an individual. What makes you think so? Let me see you list some traits that makes you different. You can list 5 traits that makes you different and I bet I can list 5 more that makes you similar.

[Prunesquallor]

I am so not getting in that discussion. I feel like I'm on a grade four playground. Nevermind then. Life's simpler if you think everyone's the same. Have fun.

[Vyrokashan]

Does it necessarily mean anything if a self-claimed shy(Seems more like introverted) girl keeps finding reasons to touch me on my arm and such?

[Zsych]

I'd think she likes you. Can't be sure about how much. Look for other indicators like how much she looks at you, how much she listens to you, and agrees with you, etc.

[ElstonGunn]

to ElstonGunn: I've read an article with a woman saying that she consider males approaching as a litmus test for masculinity.

Yes, and? I know that many women subscribe to that idea. I'm saying it's an incorrect idea. I know it's comforting to look at it in black-and-white terms, but nothing is that simple when you're dealing with people.


So you are pro equal opportunity ice breaking, and are not striving for taking a more passive stance in a relationship. Just clarifying. In your eyes, these are two very separate things.

As a general rule, yes. I myself refuse to do any romantic approaching, but that's because I'm me, not because I buy into some bogus idea that makes me think that my preferences should apply to everyone.


I brought it up because I have seen this first hand with several couples I know (male passive/female aggressive). It works for them, I've no problems with it. In those instances they are very strong willed women, who rule their roost and will have their say no matter what. Their men defer to them. I was thinking along the lines of 'be careful of what you wish for' due to this if this was something one was not after. They can go hand in hand. Not always, but some times they do.

But if you switch the genders and look at the idea that way, it's such a load of crap. How many couples have you seen where the woman sat on her ass, or just made googly eyes at most, during the initial pursuit stage, then proceeded to get the man pussy-whipped once a relationship was established? The two concepts aren't causally related. Men who will defer may not approach much if they're genuinely passive about most things, but men who don't approach aren't guaranteed to defer.


Imo there is some truth to that. Obviously it is not true for all women, but I would imagine it would be for a fair share.

Truth to the idea itself, or truth to the suggestion that many women believe the idea?

[Jinxu]

Does it necessarily mean anything if a self-claimed shy(Seems more like introverted) girl keeps finding reasons to touch me on my arm and such?

I agree with Z that she probably likes you because I've had it done to me before. If you're unsure, you can give her a test. Respond back with touching or give her a slight smile as you look at her. Then watch how she responds.

She might even be using the same test on you!

[wotsamattaU]

Does it necessarily mean anything if a self-claimed shy(Seems more like introverted) girl keeps finding reasons to touch me on my arm and such?

Agreeing with Zsych here. At the very least she likes you, but whether or not it is with romantic intention this alone is not enough to go on.

I can tell you that as both introverted and shy, the only time I ever touch someone in conversation is when I am very comfortable with them, feel we connect and genuinely like them quite a bit. I can't speak for her though.



But if you switch the genders and look at the idea that way, it's such a load of crap. How many couples have you seen where the woman sat on her ass, or just made googly eyes at most, during the initial pursuit stage, then proceeded to get the man pussy-whipped once a relationship was established? The two concepts aren't causally related.

I know this is a topic you feel quite strongly about. The vulgarity is unnecessary in getting your point across.

Just note - men who defer after having been the pursuer do so by choice. No one is forcing them to do anything, despite what they might say/protest.


Men who will defer may not approach much if they're genuinely passive about most things, but men who don't approach aren't guaranteed to defer.

Yes, there are no absolutes here.


Truth to the idea itself, or truth to the suggestion that many women believe the idea?

Not a test of masculinity per se, but whether or not a man will approach can be seen as an indicator of passivity. I personally require someone who can and will make that approach. If I sense it is difficult for him, I will meet him half way or make the approach myself. However - I definitely prefer it that he make an effort of some sort. I would rather go 3/4's of the way towards meeting a man (investment/effort) and have him meet at least with 1/4 the effort - than say, my putting in 100%. He must show some effort.

This is relative to how each individual acts/presents himself btw. If an outgoing male is standing there like a rooster, determined that the females come to him - FOR GET IT.

If it's an introverted individual who clearly seems a bit out of water, I am going to put forth more effort, having empathy for him and also sensing the commonality there. It is important to me that he takes some form of action, even if it is a minor one. For there to be a balance between us, I would want him to be able to act upon his interest.

For many women, I do believe they want a man who shows initiative in meeting them.

[Jinxu]

Does it necessarily mean anything if a self-claimed shy(Seems more like introverted) girl keeps finding reasons to touch me on my arm and such?

A very strong sign is if she touches you on the hand while the two of you are working together on a school project.





Jinxu added to this post, 1 minutes and 58 seconds later...


Not a test of masculinity per se, but whether or not a man will approach can be seen as an indicator of passivity...

If an outgoing male is standing there like a rooster, determined that the females come to him - FOR GET IT.

If you're passive in the approach, chances are you may be passive in the bedroom as well. Nature has an amazingly complex mating system.

[green eyes]

If you're passive in the approach, chances are you may be passive in the bedroom as well. Nature has an amazingly complex mating system.

Huh. Really? Well lucky me, then. In my relationship with someone that is “passive in the approach”, this is NOT AT ALL the case..and that's the way mama likes it. ;)

[Harmony]

Why are women sneaky when it comes to checking out potential mates? I'm asking because I see often women pretending not to acknowledge a guy immediately, but instead waiting for him to pass by before taking a peek.

For me... I'm afraid of rejection... So I try and gauge if a guy notices me first.

[Jinxu]

So, I got a second haircut from this cute girl today. She seems like the 'nice and sweet' type and from the clues that I've picked up she might be an INFx, which I like. I sparked up a brief conversation with her and felt a little rapport from her. She was smiling and maintained eye contact. A good sign I believe. I think I might be interested, but I've overhead her mentioning her bf to another customer (didn't say anything to me). That is expected because most hot girls will already be in a relationship, but it doesn't mean that they are happy or in love. Sometime the guy is just who they are with at the time and they are waiting to see if a better guy will come along before jumping ships. If you get what I mean. lol. Most girls will be with a guy they don't really like then not have a bf at all. Usually, I would just leave it be, but this girl has the right combination of cuteness and personality that is rare and that I like. It's too big of an opportunity for me to pass.

My question is what is the next step and how should I proceed? How can I subtly probe about what's her relationship with her bf is like? I know you women do it, so I thought I would just ask the experts. :P

[eternaltriangle]

If you're passive in the approach, chances are you may be passive in the bedroom as well. Nature has an amazingly complex mating system.

I don't know about that. I always end up making the first move, it being socially expected and all. However, I am pretty submissive sexually. It would be extremely attractive if a woman made the first move, but there are a host of reasons other than absolute confidence that might make her do so.

[Jinxu]

I don't know about that. I always end up making the first move, it being socially expected and all. However, I am pretty submissive sexually. It would be extremely attractive if a woman made the first move, but there are a host of reasons other than absolute confidence that might make her do so.

I suppose if you're just shy instead of passive then it wouldn't necessarily mean anything. Have you seen how passive some guys are?





Jinxu added to this post, 2 minutes and 13 seconds later...

IIt would be extremely attractive if a woman made the first move, but there are a host of reasons other than absolute confidence that might make her do so.

It would be even more attractive if they stripped off their clothes right then and there.

[eternaltriangle]

Not a test of masculinity per se, but whether or not a man will approach can be seen as an indicator of passivity. I personally require someone who can and will make that approach. If I sense it is difficult for him, I will meet him half way or make the approach myself. However - I definitely prefer it that he make an effort of some sort. I would rather go 3/4's of the way towards meeting a man (investment/effort) and have him meet at least with 1/4 the effort - than say, my putting in 100%. He must show some effort.


I also find it very flattering to know that somebody wants me bad. Not making the move in that mindset is reflective of one's dominance. You are so confident in ultimate success that you are willing to let the other person crack. I don't think that is passive either - it involves sending out a lot of signals, while leaving just enough mystery to make things exciting (it would be boring if people just greeted each other and said "you would make an adequate specimen for sexual intercourse. Lets insert my penis into your vagina why don't we.")





eternaltriangle added to this post, 1 minutes and 36 seconds later...

I suppose if you're just shy instead of passive then it wouldn't necessarily mean anything. Have you seen how passive some guys are?


Not really, actually... well except for me when I just want to lie there!

[Storm]

So, I got a second haircut from this cute girl today. She seems like the 'nice and sweet' type and from the clues that I've picked up she might be an INFx, which I like. I sparked up a brief conversation with her and felt a little rapport from her. She was smiling and maintained eye contact. A good sign I believe. I think I might be interested, but I've overhead her mentioning her bf to another customer (didn't say anything to me). That is expected because most hot girls will already be in a relationship, but it doesn't mean that they are happy or in love. Sometime the guy is just who they are with at the time and they are waiting to see if a better guy will come along before jumping ships. If you get what I mean. hehe. Most girls will be with a guy they don't really like then not have a bf at all. Usually, I would just leave it be, but this girl has the right combination of cuteness and personality that is rare and that I like. It's too big of an opportunity for me to pass.

My question is what is the next step and how should I proceed? How can I subtly probe about what's her relationship with her bf is like? I know you women do it, so I thought I would just ask the experts. :P

Emphasis mine.

Do you really think most women are so insecure that they constantly need a man in their life to feel appreciated? You do not want to date such a woman. She will have low self-esteem and be clingy. Unless that's what you like. :suspicious:

You see this woman in a professional capacity, so that makes it extra hard to tell if you have a chance or if she was just being nice to a customer (my money's on the latter, but I have no idea). Just talk to her a lot, if she has a picture on her desk, ask her about it. Ask her what she did last weekend. Ask if she has summer plans. But don't get too personal, just keep it at a friendly level.

[Jinxu]

Emphasis mine.

Do you really think most women are so insecure that they constantly need a man in their life to feel appreciated? You do not want to date such a woman. She will have low self-esteem and be clingy. Unless that's what you like. :suspicious:

Short answer: Yes and No. For some it's due to insecurity. For other it may just be due to whoever asked them out first.





Jinxu added to this post, 54 minutes and 28 seconds later...

Personally, I'm getting tired of some of you posters jumping to conclusions and making incorrect assumptions...





Jinxu added to this post, 26 minutes and 4 seconds later...

Why date at all? You are just looking for sex right? You don't need to date for that. In fact, it would be much easier and cheaper not to "date" for that. Girls WANT to have sex, they just need to justify it in their minds, and for this they have to not feel like a "slut".

Casually meet some girls you find attractive through school/work. Proper choosing is actually very important. They can't be smart. Below average intelligence is good. After you have talked to them a few times on different days, ask them out for coffee or something. Put on a mask that you think they will like. If you have made a proper choice at the start, then they won't be able to tell. After coffee just say good bye. Give them a call two days later and ask to go for dinner. Try to make the silly female have a good time with lots of laughs and make sure to be touching her all the time to build physical comfort. Afterward they would either be up for sex or not; they'll send signals. This depends on how much you made them laugh, how much and how well you touched them, and how good of a choice you made at the start.

Keep trying until you succeed!

I have read your post more carefully and have concluded that you too are very knowledgeable. You have now earned my respect as someone to go to for advice.

[ezri89]

You can ask these questions to a hundred girls and get a hundred different responses to each so I'm just going to answer for myself as an INTJ female.

How do you all feel about guys taking three days or more to call or email?
I think it's a game. I don't play games, and I don't deal with people who do so if someone waited three days or more to call me just because it's a "rule" of dating I would probably have less respect for them. I'd definitely lose a lot of interest. You can call someone as soon as you want and not seem eager or creepy as long as you're straight forward and honest and... not eager or creepy.

Do girls get nervous around handsome guys?
I get nervous around ANY guy and most people for that matter because I'm extremely introverted.

What assumptions do girls make about handsome guys?
I don't make assumptions about people I don't know based on their attractiveness. Maybe their behavior and the way they carry themselves but never their looks unless it's in regard to hygiene.

Would a girl ever do the approaching? Why or why not?
Despite being very introverted and nervous to talk to people I don't really lack confidence when I actually do make conversation so occasionally I'll feel compelled to approach a guy, but definitely not often. There just has to be some spark in my head that goes off, which usually happens after being around someone for a while. I can't remember if I've ever approached a stranger that I found attractive so I doubt I have.

What are some things girls like in a guy?
INTELLIGENCE. Good hygiene and not judgemental. That'll get me in and then the rest is more complicated.

What are some things girls do to show a guy they are interested?
I'm really horrible at flirting, and I'm nervous around most guys so it's probably difficult to tell when I like someone. I'll usually seem happier to be speaking with them than others though or at least more interested in what they're saying.

What are some things girls look for to see if a guy is interested?
I'm also really bad at reading signals so just telling me would be the best way. Some people are natural flirts and do it even when they don't intend to so I hardly ever get the impression someone likes me just from flirting unless they're acting completely different when around me. Maybe doing subtle nice things that show they've gone a bit out of their way for me.

What are some things that a girl first notice about a guy?
Well, first I notice looks obviously. Hygiene is key. They way they carry themselves is important - seeming arrogant puts me off as does seeming meek because it usually makes me think they're overly emotional or kind of creepy. After talking to a guy I'll notice intelligence level.

What are some things girls do to try to attract a guy?
I don't really do much to be honest. If a guy doesn't like me as my natural self then I don't see the point. Once he shows interest and we start dating is when I'd actually maybe put more effort in to certain things because I'd feel he's worthy of it.


This is probably why I don't date much. I don't really put off enough signals or show enough interest until I'm shown interest.

[Jinxu]

So, I got a second haircut from this cute girl today. She seems like the 'nice and sweet' type and from the clues that I've picked up she might be an INFx, which I like. I sparked up a brief conversation with her and felt a little rapport from her. She was smiling and maintaining eye contact. A good sign I believe. I think I might be interested, but I've overhead her mentioning her bf to another customer (didn't say anything to me). Usually, I would just leave it be, but this girl has the right combination of cuteness and personality that is rare and that I like. It's too big of an opportunity for me to pass.

My question is what is the next step and how should I proceed?

Can someone answer this? Preferably from an INFx type. What are INFPs female like? If you need more information to create an answer, just ask.

[gestalt]

Can someone answer this? Preferably from an INFx type. What are INFPs female like? If you need more information to create an answer, just ask.

It's not an "opportunity" - she's taken. Even if she did see you it is completely and utterly stupid to get involved in love triangles and polyamorous women.

You assume way way way too much overall. So check it out, I don't think you've ever had your heart broken - the gist I get from your posts is that you think you can artificially create something that may or may not be there naturally.

How's that for advice? No offense.
If you're determined to play the game then I suggest looking into the seduction subculture. Not judging you here, many introverted intelligent men learn there from eachother.

So you know any woman worth her salt will have a bullshit meter go off the charts when you feed her canned lines. But the journey is the experience too, good luck hunting bro.

[boldbidder]

Can someone answer this? Preferably from an INFx type. What are INFPs female like? If you need more information to create an answer, just ask.

Be wary, as a barber/stylist half of her job is to be a mini-counselor/sounding board/easy to talk to person. Not saying that she isn't genuinely interested, just be wary about reading to much into her interest because of her profession.

Now I'll defer to any INFx women who want to follow up with what your interactions thus far actually mean.

[Seriously]

Be wary, as a barber/stylist half of her job is to be a mini-counselor/sounding board/easy to talk to person. Not saying that she isn't genuinely interested, just be wary about reading to much into her interest because of her profession.

Now I'll defer to any INFx women who want to follow up with what your interactions thus far actually mean.

Yea it's kind of like thinking the stripper really likes you. Course I guess sometimes they do....

[boldbidder]

Yea it's kind of like thinking the stripper really likes you. Course I guess sometimes they do....

In my youth strippers liked me quite a bit...........or at least they said they did......:cry:

[Jinxu]

Be wary, as a barber/stylist half of her job is to be a mini-counselor/sounding board/easy to talk to person. Not saying that she isn't genuinely interested, just be wary about reading to much into her interest because of her profession.


I'm not afraid of rejection. I just need to know how to play it smoothly. Didn't we have a few players on this board? :wiseguy:





Jinxu added to this post, 1 minutes and 31 seconds later...

Yea it's kind of like thinking the stripper really likes you. Course I guess sometimes they do....

I'd asked a stripper out the other night a few weeks ago. Not a big deal.

[wotsamattaU]

Not enough information to try and determine if there is mutual interest there, and without seeing the interplay - it's all too wildly iffy to really comment on.

I don't feel comfortable instructing someone on how to come between a couple. It goes against my values.

[Harmony]

Have you thought about blatantly asking her if she has a boyfriend or not? It's possible that she talks about a boyfriend to keep people from trying to set her up with their friends, sons, or grandsons. I had a friend that always talked about her boyfriend at work because her clients kept trying to set her up with people they knew.

[Jinxu]

Not enough information to try and determine if there is mutual interest there, and without seeing the interplay - it's all too wildly iffy to really comment on.

I don't feel comfortable instructing someone on how to come between a couple. It goes against my values.

That's okay. Can you comment on what the body language means? Would a list of how she acts with me versus the other guy help?





Jinxu added to this post, 1 minutes and 8 seconds later...

Have you thought about blatantly asking her if she has a boyfriend or not? It's possible that she talks about a boyfriend to keep people from trying to set her up with their friends, sons, or grandsons. I had a friend that always talked about her boyfriend at work because her clients kept trying to set her up with people they knew.

It's doubtful because the other guy is about my age; I think he would more likely be trying to hook up with her then setting her up with one of his friend. The advice I have been given is "do not ask or mention about a boyfriend. But to let her mention it if she isn't interested."

[wotsamattaU]

I think due to her profession it would not help much. She's in a position where she would naturally be physically more in contact with strangers. What might be supposed as indicators of interest, in this situation could just be normal for her.

She might treat another man differently because of the difference in his energy. For example, a good friend of my husband tells me when he gets his hair cut he doesn't want to talk. At all. Just 'cut my damned hair and let me get out of here'.

People give off different energy, vibes and you adjust your behavior instinctively because of it.

[gestalt]

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[/tongue-in-cheek]

[Harmony]

It's doubtful because the other guy is about my age; I think he would more likely be trying to hook up with her then setting her up with one of his friend. The advice I have been given is "do not ask or mention about a boyfriend. But to let her mention it if she isn't interested."

That'd be another one too then... Talking about another guy to ensure the client didn't try to hit on her. Strange that she only mentions it around him and not you though. She could be interested, or she could think that you aren't interested and therefore no need to pretend.

(That's just a suggestion, there are really a million things that could be the truth.) ((Okay, maybe that's an exaggeration :p))

[Jinxu]

That'd be another one too then... Talking about another guy to ensure the client didn't try to hit on her. Strange that she only mentions it around him and not you though. She could be interested, or she could think that you aren't interested and therefore no need to pretend.

I've already tested the water by giving some compliments and being playful with her. She seems to be receptive. I gave her "the look", she maintained eye contact and was smiling. Those are good signs I believe. But you're right, I could be wrong. However, I am willing to take risks. But I like to plan these things and need suggestions on how to play it smoothly.

[Harmony]

I've already tested the water by giving some compliments and being playful with her. She did seems to be receptive. But you're right, I could be wrong. However I am willing to take risks. But, I like to plan these things and need suggestions on how to play it.

Her profession makes it really easy to ask questions though. Stylists are used to being asked all kinds of questions. So you could really ask her what she enjoys doing, if she has plans for the weekend or if she had a good weekend... I know it might seem like you are asking about her weekend to ask her out, but I don't know how many times I've had that come up in conversation with my stylist! And I've heard other stylist ask the same questions with their clients that are of the opposite sex.

[Jinxu]

Her profession makes it really easy to ask questions though. Stylists are used to being asked all kinds of questions. So you could really ask her what she enjoys doing, if she has plans for the weekend or if she had a good weekend... I know it might seem like you are asking about her weekend to ask her out, but I don't know how many times I've had that come up in conversation with my stylist! And I've heard other stylist ask the same questions with their clients that are of the opposite sex.

That's a good answer. But the conversation will need to be directed to where you can ask her out. Do you have any suggestions how? Maybe this is where an INTJ that's good with strategical thinking can give advice?

[wotsamattaU]

Jinxu wrote:

The advice I have been given is "do not ask or mention about a boyfriend. But to let her mention it if she isn't interested."

That is good advice. There is no harm done in asking her out. For all you know, she could be just casually dating or as Kymbirleigh pointed out - not actually dating at all.

You can let her define what her situation is, rather than assuming something based on what you overheard.

If she is truly taken, it is up to her to make that known to you.

For everyone's sake, I hope she is honest and upfront about it. Otherwise, you could be getting yourself into quite a tangle.

[Jinxu]

For everyone's sake, I hope she is honest and upfront about it. Otherwise, you could be getting yourself into quite a tangle.

If it is successful, my next thread will be "How to keep the other guy from finding out!?"

[wotsamattaU]

Think very hard upon this before making a move.

I am concerned you are thinking only of yourself here. It would be entirely selfish to move forward and intentionally come between a couple (particularly as you are not interested in a long term commitment). To do so, IF she is involved would leave a lot of damage in it's wake.

Consider before acting - 'Will this act benefit everyone concerned?'

If it isn't, then it is not the right thing to do.

No good comes from instilling hurt upon others.

[Seriously]

If someone is in a relationship and happy they won't be looking so she won't go out with you. If she is in a relationship and not happy then she might be looking and might go out with you. Not your problem if she isn't happy in her relationship, it's her problem and the other guys problem. That's my view of that anyway.

If you get a vibe from her that feels like she is interested don't beat around the bush, just ask her. What's the worst thing that can happen?

[Jinxu]

Think very hard upon this before making a move.

I am concerned you are thinking only of yourself here. It would be entirely selfish to move forward and intentionally come between a couple (particularly as you are not interested in a long term commitment).

I might change my mind if she is worth it. But you can't know for sure unless you try it out. The member 'Seriously' pretty much sum up how I view the situation. Thanks.

[wotsamattaU]

All couples have moments when things are not ideal.

Sometimes a third party, detecting this makes a play for one of them.

That does not mean the orig. couple weren't sound. All it means is humans are human - you might be catching them in a moment of weakness.

I agree it is up to her to let her relationship status be known. You are willing to take the risk, and if she is free then you do have potential gain.

All I'm saying is be aware of the consequences of your behavior.

[Jinxu]

Her profession makes it really easy to ask questions though. Stylists are used to being asked all kinds of questions. So you could really ask her what she enjoys doing, if she has plans for the weekend or if she had a good weekend... I know it might seem like you are asking about her weekend to ask her out, but I don't know how many times I've had that come up in conversation with my stylist! And I've heard other stylist ask the same questions with their clients that are of the opposite sex.

Can you explain this a little further? I'm not particularly good at making small talk, but at least I'm okay when I try. What kind of questions do people usually ask?





Jinxu added to this post, 62 minutes and 36 seconds later...

So I was talking with the INFP who I'm interested in (and who's interested in me) the other day. She commented on how this "young guy" was hitting on her, but she really wasn't interested. I asked how old he was, she said, "19 or 20.

I don't think I've ever thought about this and I'm curious. What exactly does "hitting on" mean to you women?

[dalidaisy]

I don't think I've ever thought about this and I'm curious. What exactly does "hitting on" mean to you women?

Hmmm... Pick-up lines, excessive interest in my life, trying to be physically close to me, suggestive language, asking me out...

[Jinxu]

If you get a vibe from her that feels like she is interested don't beat around the bush, just ask her. What's the worst thing that can happen?

I've decided that the best approach is to do the following and in this order:

Make conversation
Ask questions about herself
Give a compliment
Ask if she's doing anything on (blank)
Give a compliment if she ask why ("Well, I think you're really cute and you seem nice and")
Ask if she wants to meet for coffee ("I wanted to know if you want to go grab a cup of coffee?)
Schedule a meeting
Get her phone number
Leave with a big grin

Any thoughts? Anyone?