Making Games

[Ted]

I wanna see how many people would be interested in developing games together. I'm thinking that this might be a good idea because most of us are INTJs, competent people.

I am in high-spirits of this but I do not currently hone enough skills to efficiently take part in this activity. If people are interested and we agree on the specific software to use, I can then learn how to use it. I have some ideas in mind but let's see if there's anyone else is interested first.

(I get a feeling that this idea will either die quickly, or I start enthusing some experienced people and I get left out of it lol)

[Storm]

Aw, I thought this was going to be about making up rules for a board or card game.

[Ted]

Oh, sorry for the disappointment. Seeing that no one seems interested, it can be converted to your idea: making up rules for a board or card game.

[pocohauntus]

Yeah, wanna do that?

[Ted]

Yeah, wanna do that?

Might as well, someone can just "hi-jack" and start, then we can edit the first couple posts lol Oh btw, when that happens, a mod is gonna have to move this to another sub-forum.

[MrDoom]

Sounds like a perfect opportunity to play a game of Nomic (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.).

[Ted]

Sounds like a perfect opportunity to play a game of Nomic (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.).

I've actually never heard of that till now though I have seen it implemented in games.

[WaeV]

Ok, I'll go first.

Each round starts by dealing out a deck of cards equally among each player.

[Ender]

I'd be interested in the idea, Ted, but I'm probably no more knowledgeable or experienced than you are.

[OnionKnight]

I'd be interested, depending on what you had in mind. I'm a programmer so I'd deal mostly with those parts, but I also like the design aspect and even took a course in game design. Horrible with art. I've been meaning to make a game some day, but I'm picky and feel like I need to make a unique as well as an enjoyable experience. Don't want to make yet-another-indie-2D-platformer.

[Ted]

Lol this is kinda awkward cause I got both people who want to make video games + people who wanna make rules for card games mixed up together.

I'll just give out a rough idea of what I had in mind for a video game. My ultimate goal would be to create good action games with excellent implementations of multiple level systems.

This goal is a looong way from now (scratch) but I want to do little projects that may help lead up to it.

btw, a list of games with ideas that I wish to semi-copy and implement are:

Dynasty warriors (hacking n' slashing large groups of enemies)
Disgaea (basically nippon-ichi games' idea of immense level system [9999 level cap])
Ninja Gaiden(? I just like the way Ryu moves, rolling, jumping, wall-walking etc.)
Phantasy Star Universe/Portable (Lots of good ideas here but quite crappily executed imo)

These are all (originally) Japanese games and I'll now explain why I liked these compared to some American titles.

God of War and Heavenly Sword are pretty decent action titles. Here are some of the reasons why I personally don't like these games:

(Ninja Gaiden would also fall in this category)
- Bosses/enemies eventually lead to memorizing their attack patterns
- Very little to no level systems involved
- As I venture through the story, the past (previous chapters in the game) is completely removed from the present (with the exception of some story plots, but I'm talking game mechanics here).
- There is always a place I'm supposed to go and gives very little freedom to the player

I'll stop here for now but hopefully people now have a fuller grasp of what kind of games I'm looking at.

[nacht]

Ted, not to throw water on this, but do you have any programming experience or software design experience?

[Ted]

Ted, not to throw water on this, but do you have any programming experience or software design experience?

Not a LOT of practical experience but I have made some programs/games before. Of course, these were tiny in comparison to a full-fledged game. I also consistently analyze how the coding would work as I play video games, consciously and unconsciously. I know that making a game will be a difficult task, but I think I will enjoy overcoming the difficulties.

[kedelfor]

Game developement can be difficult. To make a 3d action game can take a long time. There are lots of factors that go into game development. There is sound, animation, programming, design, story and what not. I have always been interested in creating a game, but never got arround to it. I am a software developer by trade and programming is only part of it.

On the other hand you can make good games with a limited amount resources. Look at Castle Crashes, any platformer, or Tetris for that matter. A lot of the flash games are made by one or two people.

As for the card game why not do something of a hybrid of a card game/board game that has a game client. Hit it on both ends. You can develope the rules for the game and program around them. Add an interface to play online and what not and there you go a start of something beautiful. You will get game design experience in both realms. This will also allow for you to create basic AI and get some programming skills down.

[Valiyn]

Hi.

I make games for a career. More specifically, conceptual art.

If you want to make games, learn how to go without sleep for roughly 21 days straight. Learn basic game design principles. Get rid of the idea that you should do something because it's "cool". Make sure you have a dozen or so "rapable-babies". Take criticism extremely well.

Lets see, my first taste of game design came from an internship with EA....Fun times. Roughly 80-90% of your work is scrapped or redone to the point you can't recognize it. So lets say you're designing the Jedi Starfighter from episode 2. You would go through roughly 50-60 drawings of the thing before one is accepted..And that's a best case scanario. Then it moves on down the line.

A day in the life of game designing would be something equivalent to running a game of Shadowrun in the game section of this forum, getting everyone to post atleast once per day, having to make your own maps, draw all their characters for them, make it fun and challanging, and then you'll get paid a percentage of how well they liked the game (minus some for those who pirated the thread)...All of which has to be done on a professional level....this includes UVing the Texture maps for their characters :p ......If you don't have a pure passion for storytelling, the biggest actual reward for you in game design is getting to laugh at those that have desk jobs.

It's not all it's cracked up to be.
But it's worth it. You're making a living, interactive story that is easy to immerse the audience in.

If you want to break into the industry, it's all about the portfolio. I have a double major in Sequential Art and Game and Interactive Design from SCAD, with minors for Conceptual Art for Games, Drawing, and might try to get an Illustration minor while I finish my second major. That education doesn't mean anything at all. It's all about what I can present to them in my portfolio. Levels, Art, etc. That's pretty much all that matters to employers in this feild.

Hope that helps.

[nacht]

Not a LOT of practical experience but I have made some programs/games before. Of course, these were tiny in comparison to a full-fledged game. I also consistently analyze how the coding would work as I play video games, consciously and unconsciously. I know that making a game will be a difficult task, but I think I will enjoy overcoming the difficulties.

Be specific, how much experience? What languages/toolkits have you used to what degree of familiarity?

[Ted]

Hi.

I make games for a career. More specifically, conceptual art.

If you want to make games, learn how to go without sleep for roughly 21 days straight. Learn basic game design principles. Get rid of the idea that you should do something because it's "cool". Make sure you have a dozen or so "rapable-babies". Take criticism extremely well.

Lets see, my first taste of game design came from an internship with EA....Fun times. Roughly 80-90% of your work is scrapped or redone to the point you can't recognize it. So lets say you're designing the Jedi Starfighter from episode 2. You would go through roughly 50-60 drawings of the thing before one is accepted..And that's a best case scanario. Then it moves on down the line.

A day in the life of game designing would be something equivalent to running a game of Shadowrun in the game section of this forum, getting everyone to post atleast once per day, having to make your own maps, draw all their characters for them, make it fun and challanging, and then you'll get paid a percentage of how well they liked the game (minus some for those who pirated the thread)...All of which has to be done on a professional level....this includes UVing the Texture maps for their characters :p ......If you don't have a pure passion for storytelling, the biggest actual reward for you in game design is getting to laugh at those that have desk jobs.

It's not all it's cracked up to be.
But it's worth it. You're making a living, interactive story that is easy to immerse the audience in.

If you want to break into the industry, it's all about the portfolio. I have a double major in Sequential Art and Game and Interactive Design from SCAD, with minors for Conceptual Art for Games, Drawing, and might try to get an Illustration minor while I finish my second major. That education doesn't mean anything at all. It's all about what I can present to them in my portfolio. Levels, Art, etc. That's pretty much all that matters to employers in this feild.

Hope that helps.

Yes, I am aware that you're giving some useful advice and I thank you for that. However, I do plan to start my own game company some day and I thought that gathering people who are interested would be the first step.

The problem with game companies is that most of the people working there are doing their jobs to earn a living. I'm hoping to gather a small group of very motivated people and start with them.

Game developement can be difficult. To make a 3d action game can take a long time. There are lots of factors that go into game development. There is sound, animation, programming, design, story and what not. I have always been interested in creating a game, but never got arround to it. I am a software developer by trade and programming is only part of it.

On the other hand you can make good games with a limited amount resources. Look at Castle Crashes, any platformer, or Tetris for that matter. A lot of the flash games are made by one or two people.

As for the card game why not do something of a hybrid of a card game/board game that has a game client. Hit it on both ends. You can develope the rules for the game and program around them. Add an interface to play online and what not and there you go a start of something beautiful. You will get game design experience in both realms. This will also allow for you to create basic AI and get some programming skills down.

K

I am fully aware the good commercial action games (i.e. God of War) takes a team of ~100 people (including testers) and 2-3 years for them to make one game. The situation will be different if I'm working with a small group of completely motivated people. Granted, it will not be easy at all and most of the process isn't "very fun".

You're telling me this as if I'm a 10-year old kid coming up with this idea (which I don't blame you for) but I am aware of all the difficulties you've mentioned. I've mentioned before that the action game is like my life-long goal so obviously I'm not gonna just grab a bunch of guys off the web and expect them to work for me like slaves. I'm hoping that I can find a bunch of people who are completely enthused with this idea and we can start off by making smaller games. Or I can help make something completely unrelated just to get experience. I have tried making a (self-invented) card game on flash in the past but I never got around to start programming it lol. If people want to do that, we can. Again, the action game is just my ultimate personal goal, it isn't what I'm planning to do starting this second.

Be specific, how much experience? What languages/toolkits have you used to what degree of familiarity?

- I've used visual basic and Turing in high school. (almost useless experience)
- I've also used 3d Studio max in high school. (So I"m not completely green but not very skilled yet)
- I've used Java and Flash which uses javascript. My degree of familiarity is not very high and that's what I meant when I said I don't have a lot of experience. However, there's no reason that I won't learn a new language/tool. I will learn to make games eventually and I'm just trying to jump-start that right now.

[OnionKnight]

First thing you'll need when developing a game is to start making a game design document (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.), or something similar. This document doesn't need to be complete, and is often added to progressively, but should cover enough for a basis. You might want to be able to play it in your head, start to finish. It's dangerous to start implementing a game prematurely before you know it will work out. People often make that mistake, and give up on it once they realize that they simply hadn't enough material to piece it together.

As for programming, these days you don't need that much skill if you're looking to make a 2D game. There's programs like Game Maker that makes things simple.

[Ted]

As for programming, these days you don't need that much skill if you're looking to make a 2D game. There's programs like Game Maker that makes things simple.

I know for certain that I don't want to use a game maker.

First thing you'll need when developing a game is to start making a game design document (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.), or something similar. This document doesn't need to be complete, and is often added to progressively, but should cover enough for a basis. You might want to be able to play it in your head, start to finish. It's dangerous to start implementing a game prematurely before you know it will work out. People often make that mistake, and give up on it once they realize that they simply hadn't enough material to piece it together.


As I've previously mentioned, an action game is just what I ultimately want to do. As of this moment, I don't have nearly enough skills to pull that off. This thread exists in order to help me find people who might want to make games together, and we'll, of course, start off with something considerably easy. When I made this thread, I didn't even know if anyone would be interested so I don't have a game design document yet but thanks for the article. I've planned things in my head but I'll definitely put it in writing now.

For now, I'd like to see people who wants to make games, and we'll design a game concept together and take off from there.

[nacht]

I'd spend some work coming up with an idea and putting together a game design document, as Onion Knight indicates. Simply asking for "who's interested" isn't going to get you very far, because we have no idea the scope o the project yet. I might throw some time into an AdventureSoft-style game or a Visual Novel if I like the concept or the story, but I am unlikely to do so for an action game.

Others will have different preferences, so come up with a concept and a game design and we'll see where it goes.

[Ted]

I don't have any specific ideas (I do for a great 3-d action game but that's not where I'm starting). However, I do know that I want to focus on the gameplay more than the story. Games like Dynasty Warriors and Disgaea last for ~100 hours while their stories would only be ~2 hours (excluding gameplay). Whatever I make though, be it a card game or action game, I want to incorporate a lot of level systems in it.

[ezickl]

I have little experience in coding, but i might be helpful if a game is to be made...

[BlackMita]

Oh! I'm interested! I have design experience, I'm an artist, and I can program... the thing is I'm only familiar with gml (GameMaker) but have a good enough grasp of the fundamentals that I could probably learn another language in a short time.

[Ted]

Alright, we have quite a handful of people who are interested so we should now actually try to come up with a game to make. The tough part is to find a relatively easy idea that can divide roles to different people.

First and foremost, I think we should decide on the program to use. I think Maya is one of the better software to use for game making. But I don't have any experience in that so I'll have to learn from scratch. I have some familiarity using flash which uses javascript so if you people want to start off with making some flash games, that could work. Which of those two (or other) programs do you guys think we should start with.

[Valiyn]

You will want to use Gmax. C&C Renegade was made with it. It's a free 3d software. Another suggestion is Blender, although that can be complicated to mix with most game engines.

Maya, XSI, and Lightwave are the main 3d programs. Maya is the most common, XSI is the most professional and the most advanced (not to mention my favorite), and Lightwave is the quickest to generally learn and to use. Maya is very expensive, you cannot expect these people to go out and buy it. You either have to provide them with it or choose a different program. Go with something free and quick to learn.

Don't bother with what programs first, get a concept, some art, general gameplay, schedule, and budget first. Remember, the more complex, the longer and risker it becomes. The game industry is competitive, no one there holds jobs "just cause it earns a living". Many people who are actually in the game industry are the best in their fields or masters of many of them. You are starting from the opposite side of the spectrum. You can't get a set schedule because free time flexuates. You have no budget (or that I know of), and you're recruiting people with very little experience. You're going to be hard pressed to pull this off and to be honest I'm extremely skeptical of it working. Because of these disadvantages I strongly suggest outlining clear ways to solve them. I've seen people that are like you fail all the time in this industry, no offense (I'm not trying to shoot you down here), but you are up against some very long odds. Clarity of focus is the most essential thing you need. Start simple. You need a game engine, and a 2d one will preform much better then a 3d one in this regard of simplicity. At this point, it's not about what you want, it's about what you can get away with.

[ghost15]

I've been doing some work on a game but had to give up for a while... I can't make any models and everyone gave up on me! *sigh* lol. I'd definatly be interested in going at it again. I have pretty advanced Programing skills in C# , and knowledge on Development within the XNA Framework from microsoft. the game i started (and havent worked on in over a year) you can find here, To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. (if links are not allowed a mod can feel free to remove) Consider it my 'resume' of sorts on my skills. The game was programmed by me, however the models used are from Microsofts "free to use sample kit".

[Ted]

I think one of my biggest problems is that I'm recruiting people solely based on their interest in this idea, with little regards to their skills (at this point). If/when this project does start rolling, many of the ...less useful people (including myself so no offense) may be excluded from this project which seems quite cruel.

You will want to use Gmax. C&C Renegade was made with it. It's a free 3d software. Another suggestion is Blender, although that can be complicated to mix with most game engines.

Maya, XSI, and Lightwave are the main 3d programs. Maya is the most common, XSI is the most professional and the most advanced (not to mention my favorite), and Lightwave is the quickest to generally learn and to use. Maya is very expensive, you cannot expect these people to go out and buy it. You either have to provide them with it or choose a different program. Go with something free and quick to learn.

Don't bother with what programs first, get a concept, some art, general gameplay, schedule, and budget first. Remember, the more complex, the longer and risker it becomes. The game industry is competitive, no one there holds jobs "just cause it earns a living". Many people who are actually in the game industry are the best in their fields or masters of many of them. You are starting from the opposite side of the spectrum. You can't get a set schedule because free time flexuates. You have no budget (or that I know of), and you're recruiting people with very little experience. You're going to be hard pressed to pull this off and to be honest I'm extremely skeptical of it working. Because of these disadvantages I strongly suggest outlining clear ways to solve them. I've seen people that are like you fail all the time in this industry, no offense (I'm not trying to shoot you down here), but you are up against some very long odds. Clarity of focus is the most essential thing you need. Start simple. You need a game engine, and a 2d one will preform much better then a 3d one in this regard of simplicity. At this point, it's not about what you want, it's about what you can get away with.

Thanks for all the info. (I think it's an INTJ trait that) I don't really want to take the "leader" role unless I have to even though I'm suggesting this idea. If anyone wants to take the initiative, I will welcome you with open arms.


I've been doing some work on a game but had to give up for a while... I can't make any models and everyone gave up on me! *sigh* lol. I'd definatly be interested in going at it again. I have pretty advanced Programing skills in C# , and knowledge on Development within the XNA Framework from microsoft. the game i started (and havent worked on in over a year) you can find here, To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. (if links are not allowed a mod can feel free to remove) Consider it my 'resume' of sorts on my skills. The game was programmed by me, however the models used are from Microsofts "free to use sample kit".

You know what, since you already have a start here, you should be the "leader" :D. I wouldn't mind helping you continue that game. (though keep in mind that all these are volunteer work "for fun" so if anyone, or myself, retire from this project... let's just say it wouldn't be unexpected. As long as I can be of use though, I wouldn't mind doing this because I'm probably one of the human beings with the most free time in the world. ^^)

[ghost15]

You know what, since you already have a start here, you should be the "leader" :D. I wouldn't mind helping you continue that game. (though keep in mind that all these are volunteer work "for fun" so if anyone, or myself, retire from this project... let's just say it wouldn't be unexpected. As long as I can be of use though, I wouldn't mind doing this because I'm probably one of the human beings with the most free time in the world. ^^)

Not to Keen on the Leader bit myself, especially since it didnt work last time! The game that I created was strictly 'for fun' and 'for learning' anyway, so I think we are all on the same page here.

If you plan to continue with it, here are a few of the key things that I've already completed for it:


3d Top down View Engine
Screen Manager System (for menues etc)
UI Drawing System (Draws text ontop of the game world, with a drop shadow)
GPU Accelerated (Pixel Shader 2.0) Particle Effects System
Core TCP/IP Networking. Can connect to my server application and Create accounts, Verify Versions information. (thats it for now, it is suppose to be a 1v1 Online Dueling game + local play)


I also have no problems starting over this or another idea from scratch. A large portion of my code I wrote as external DLLs so they can be imported into another XNA Game easily.

[Ted]

Not to Keen on the Leader bit myself, especially since it didnt work last time! The game that I created was strictly 'for fun' and 'for learning' anyway, so I think we are all on the same page here.

If you plan to continue with it, here are a few of the key things that I've already completed for it:


3d Top down View Engine
Screen Manager System (for menues etc)
UI Drawing System (Draws text ontop of the game world, with a drop shadow)
GPU Accelerated (Pixel Shader 2.0) Particle Effects System
Core TCP/IP Networking. Can connect to my server application and Create accounts, Verify Versions information. (thats it for now, it is suppose to be a 1v1 Online Dueling game + local play)


I also have no problems starting over this or another idea from scratch. A large portion of my code I wrote as external DLLs so they can be imported into another XNA Game easily.

So you used XNA Game Studio right? I have to look into that now since I don't know much about it.

If we plan to continue on this game, here are some suggestions I have:

- If it's going to be online, it might as well be more epic but we should probably make a good offline mode first.

- Stat Customization (i.e. equipments, levels)

- Instead of making ships appear from the left when you head right of the screen (I don't know what it is called), it should probably have boundaries and a bigger map (Arena like).


I'll leave it at that for now but again, I know almost nothing about the actual making of the game therefore I have to start learning now. Also, these are just things I'm thinking off the top of my head and they're just suggestions. It would be really helpful if you can link me to a tutorial that can lead me right into being useful. (yeah I'm a lazy bum and don't trust my googling skills)

[Frag]

There are lots of existing projects out there already, I would suggest you look for something interesting and see if you can find a place.

Doing your own thing always *sounds* good, but it requires a unique level of dedication and an outpouring of time and energy I certainly couldn't muster.

[ghost15]

I'll leave it at that for now but again, I know almost nothing about the actual making of the game therefore I have to start learning now. Also, these are just things I'm thinking off the top of my head and they're just suggestions. It would be really helpful if you can link me to a tutorial that can lead me right into being useful. (yeah I'm a lazy bum and don't trust my googling skills)

When I was first learning about XNA, this came in handy: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(How to make a game in 60 Minutes Video)

However I think it expects you to know C# (C Sharp) Programing language already, or atleast a core understanding of it.


So you used XNA Game Studio right? I have to look into that now since I don't know much about it.

If we plan to continue on this game, here are some suggestions I have:

- If it's going to be online, it might as well be more epic but we should probably make a good offline mode first.

- Stat Customization (i.e. equipments, levels)

- Instead of making ships appear from the left when you head right of the screen (I don't know what it is called), it should probably have boundaries and a bigger map (Arena like).

-Yes I Used XNA Game Studio (2.0).

-Yes, I was working on single player first, hence only the Core TCP/IP Was done so far ;)

- It sounds like you played my game, There was plans for "Leveling Up" To upgrade your ship (the view ship stats screen shows you some of the various stats used) There was also suppose to be 3 different weapons, Missiles and Cannons were in-game (only rockets was enabled by default). Control - D (at the same time) enables Debug Mode, and will output extra information at the bottom of the gamescreen if your interested.

-I hadn't figured out exactly how to handle the boundry issue yet for ship vs ship, some kind of energy field or something? Needed to atleast look/sound good (not that flying from one side to the other side wrap-mode looked good either!)

[Ted]

There are lots of existing projects out there already, I would suggest you look for something interesting and see if you can find a place.

Doing your own thing always *sounds* good, but it requires a unique level of dedication and an outpouring of time and energy I certainly couldn't muster.

Yeah but where do I go and find those projects? Considering that I don't hone any useful skills at the moment, they wouldn't let me join even if I found them.

When I was first learning about XNA, this came in handy: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(How to make a game in 60 Minutes Video)

However I think it expects you to know C# (C Sharp) Programing language already, or atleast a core understanding of it.


Just posting to let you know that I got this message. I'm going to read that link now and hopefully make some sense out of it. I'm gonna have to learn C# language too.

[Frag]

Yeah but where do I go and find those projects? Considering that I don't hone any useful skills at the moment, they wouldn't let me join even if I found them.
Well, there are plenty of FOSS projects (some very ... alternative stuff exists), or mods (more likely to find something in the 3d action area here).

With the FOSS sorts of things, you can participate just by filing bug reports, helping reproduce and track down problems, etc. Frequently it is very open - you don't "join" so much as just gatecrash the party.

Mods - maybe they need some documents written or some kind of community role, there is a large range, many semi-technical things that you don't necessarily need to be a hotshot artist / programmer to do.
(Particularly the larger ones that have dedicated testing/PR/whatever people etc)

[Jackula]

Hey can I help? I always wanted to work for the gaming industry but it's so hard to get in without practical games development experience. I have some relevant skills - C#/Java is okay, but a bit slow for what I do professionally. My personal favourite is C/C++, been coding since I was 6 and have done some OpenGL.

[Ted]

Well, there are plenty of FOSS projects (some very ... alternative stuff exists), or mods (more likely to find something in the 3d action area here).

With the FOSS sorts of things, you can participate just by filing bug reports, helping reproduce and track down problems, etc. Frequently it is very open - you don't "join" so much as just gatecrash the party.

Mods - maybe they need some documents written or some kind of community role, there is a large range, many semi-technical things that you don't necessarily need to be a hotshot artist / programmer to do.
(Particularly the larger ones that have dedicated testing/PR/whatever people etc)

The things you've suggested are more game testing than game making.

Hey can I help? I always wanted to work for the gaming industry but it's so hard to get in without practical games development experience. I have some relevant skills - C#/Java is okay, but a bit slow for what I do professionally. My personal favourite is C/C++, been coding since I was 6 and have done some OpenGL.

If you've read the whole thread, you'd realize than anyone is welcome but as INTJs, nobody (including myself) is taking any real initiative in presenting some concrete plans for a project. If you or anyone else have something in mind that you want to make, post it here and people will hopefully participate.

A few days ago I started planning to make a game similar to Castle Wars (flash game) so if people want to work on that together, we can do that. I still gotta read the XNA tutorials for now... spent all day playing games and forgot I had homework to do XP

[Jackula]

How about a MMO game based around transport tycoon? I always loved that game.

[Frag]

The things you've suggested are more game testing than game making.
Thats because your current skill set doesn't allow it.

[Doppelbock]

I can contribute some time. I have 15+ years of C/C++ experience.

[ghost15]

Looks like I'm the only one that does C# programming. I guess if no-one want to take charge I might, but I'll hold off a little longer just in case ;)

[deinotes]

If you guys need a idea or a start project i have something what i started a time ago in cbuilder.
I wanted to make a combat "simulator" where the units where built out of parts and so that if for example someone was hit with a axe in the arm a half arm would be left.
So in short it's a project that makes a combat somewhat more realistic than units with 100 hp.

[Ted]

How about a MMO game based around transport tycoon? I always loved that game.

Haven't played that game, I might try it to see what you like about it. The problem with MMO though is that it not only takes a long time to make, but it also has to have a server which I'm not sure if anyone is willing to pay for.

If you guys need a idea or a start project i have something what i started a time ago in cbuilder.
I wanted to make a combat "simulator" where the units where built out of parts and so that if for example someone was hit with a axe in the arm a half arm would be left.
So in short it's a project that makes a combat somewhat more realistic than units with 100 hp.

The idea is interesting but in order to make it really well, it would be very/too complicated. I'm sure that a game where if an axe touched your arm at 0.001 m/s and your arm falls off, it wouldn't be very fun. That said, there's also the problem with the realism of attacking. I would think that this idea would be great for wii though.

[ghost15]

Haven't played that game, I might try it to see what you like about it. The problem with MMO though is that it not only takes a long time to make, but it also has to have a server which I'm not sure if anyone is willing to pay for.


If anything happens, I have a personal server on a 5MBPS upstream line, the first M would be a problem (Massive) but Multiplayer Online RPG shouldn't be a problem for the server.

It's a
-Pentium D 3.0Ghz @ 3.60GHz
-8GB DDR 2 @ 800MHz
-320GB HDD 7200 RPM, SATA

I Have a server status JPG but I was doing some reconfiguration and the port is not open yet.

[Ted]

If anything happens, I have a personal server on a 5MBPS upstream line, the first M would be a problem (Massive) but Multiplayer Online RPG shouldn't be a problem for the server.

It's a
-Pentium D 3.0Ghz @ 3.60GHz
-8GB DDR 2 @ 800MHz
-320GB HDD 7200 RPM, SATA

I Have a server status JPG but I was doing some reconfiguration and the port is not open yet.

That's good to hear. To be perfectly honest though, it doesn't feel like this is ever gonna happen (the game). Grabing random people to randomly come up with a task together doesn't seem to go anywhere (what I've been doing).

Okay, now I'm going to start organizing this properly. Anyone who's interested in making a game together, PM me and I'll generate a list in this post of all the people who are planning to participate.

PM Format:
*Skills: (can be n/a if that's the truth, but be willing to learn)
E-mail:
Ideas:
Additional information/personal message:


Keep in mind that if you want to take part in this activity, you must either have some useful skills or are willing to learn it all by mostly reading tutorials. Once we've got a moderately sized list (5+ people) we'll start designing a game in depth.

List of participants (Last updated April 3):

Ted - Flash, Java
ghost15 - C# / XNA , ASP.Net , PHP, ColdFusion
Doppelbock (unconfirmed) - C/C++
Jackula (unconfirmed) - Java/C#, OpenGL

*I only included people from the 2nd page of this thread for now, but everyone needs to confirm their willingness to participate via PM anyways so it doesn't matter who's on or off the list at this moment.

Right now, I'm working on a card game; the idea was ripped off of Castle Wars To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. . I'm doing this on flash at the moment and if people are interested, we can add a lot of detail and really make this into a good game (as of now, I'm only doing the coding for practice and fun).

Until we start, I'll only be checking this site several times a day. The longest time it will take me to read a message on PM or in this thread is 48 hours after it's been posted (the absolute longest delay).

List of games we can work on (Last updated April 3):
*Our first project should definitely be something small just to get the group working together first.

Card game (rip-off of Castle Wars) - Flash
ghost15's spaceship game - XNA
transport tycoon rip-off

[Valiyn]

As I'm the only one that seems to have professional knowledge of this here, you're free to ask for advice anytime. On anything. However, I've seen enough game-making "fanboys" to know where this has been going from early on. If you prove me wrong, I'll be glad to do some art for you. I can do anything from concept art, to 3d modeling and animation and more, even some scripting (so, absolutely anything on the visual or design side). But only after you get a solid start and the game looks promising. I'm busy enough as it is, and unless you pay or prove my bet wrong about this project, I'm staying on the sidelines.

I have seen things like these worked and have worked on some even. The key is determination and clarity.

Good luck!

[Ted]

As I'm the only one that seems to have professional knowledge of this here, you're free to ask for advice anytime. On anything. However, I've seen enough game-making "fanboys" to know where this has been going from early on. If you prove me wrong, I'll be glad to do some art for you. I can do anything from concept art, to 3d modeling and animation and more, even some scripting (so, absolutely anything on the visual or design side). But only after you get a solid start and the game looks promising. I'm busy enough as it is, and unless you pay or prove my bet wrong about this project, I'm staying on the sidelines.

I have seen things like these worked and have worked on some even. The key is determination and clarity.

Good luck!

Well my simple card game is an experiment for me to implement an infinite level system. I'm about 30% done right now (I'm only focusing on the coding, so there isn't any animation and are just numbers around the screen). But still, I'm pretty sure this little project of mines is gonna work out. I've got the patience to do the work, but I just might not have the determination to learn how to use new programs with no promise of it working out for sure.

Since you offered me to ask for advice, I do have questions. This is something I've been wondering since the beginning of time (7 years ago). Can you help me find tutorials on how to make online flash games? And also how to save data through an external file source.

^ The above shouldn't be very hard, but I don't know the proper terminology so it makes googling it very difficult.

[ghost15]

I can do anything from concept art, to 3d modeling and animation and more, even some scripting (so, absolutely anything on the visual or design side).
Good luck!


Funny, Thats the one thing I was missing (which at the time ended my game's development). I needed 3d Models (at the least), Sprites/Effects, and Sound. If you haven't taken a look, please do. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. the RPG Framework is in place, but I never got around to the level up due to not having any models to use (aka let you select one of 4-5 ship hulls)

I've started to dabble in 3ds max, and made a quite crappy ship model;

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my strength lies with abstract concepts and programming



btw my semi-fancy little server status jpg, updated on the server aprox every 2 seconds:

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[Ted]

Okay... so it's been 9 days. Interesting how so many people volunteered to make a game but the moment I try to get this thing organized, practically no one responded.

[Latro]

I hate to say it, but I'd recommend starting out with a mod for an existing game if you're going to do anything. Perhaps a Civilization 4 mod? I tried to organize the making of a Civilization 4 mod I think last year, and it didn't really work out, but I think it could've gone really nicely.

I'm personally awful and any sort of art/animation type stuff and am pretty bad at programming as well (though I have familiarity with most of Python's syntax and could probably learn C's and Java's syntax fairly quickly as well)

[Ted]

meh, I'm gonna indulge myself in dynasty warriors gundam 2, warriors orochi z, cross edge, and dynasty warriors 6 empire for the next year anyways lol.

[Xackery]

Hahahahaha Valiyn. I loved your word of advice on the end of the first topic. You missed some word of advice though: Have fun!

And yeah, I can bet most INTJ's would have more fun creating the systems inside the game.. Features, what makes it unique, gameplay aspects etc.. than they would actually MAKING the game. (Though, I personally find making games fun.)

Get an idea going you can worry about engine, 3d modeler, and such later. And you can remove a lot of the skepticism of Valiyn by just saying it's for fun and even if it doesn't get finished you had fun trying!

So what's the idea? Give some clarity to that and you can move on to more serious business!

And if nobody wants to be leader, I'll be leader! (Though, my leadership depends on how active I stay on these forums, hahaha)

[ghost15]

I was starting to work on putting together two websites. A new main one for myself, since I don't do PC Repair work anymore to 'show off' some of my personal projects, it’s almost done. After That I was going to work on creating the site for my game's idea "The Hyperspace Project" unfortunately this weekend my dog I grew up with died, so I've not been in the mood to work on the website. I'll hopefully get things rolling in 1-2 weeks if people are still around.

In Progess site: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


P.S. I do programming for a living, design is not my strong suit.

[moomoogarden]

Animation courses are a year long and cost around 60,000 dollars. I taught using maya for 8 years. Most jobs in the industry are contract; on average 6 months to a year.
It is a very specialized industry, story board artists, modeling, texture, lighters, riggers, animators, script and code, and so on. 3D max is used most frequently in gaming, maya is the dominant software for entertainment. (Tho they can all be used for either.)
Commonly, multiple software is utilized, the main software might be maya, but mud box and zbrush are also used for models. Maya is clumsy when it comes to UV maps, so software specializing in creating UV maps are used. Composite software: Shake (not used so much anymore) Fusion (high end) and After Effects (medium). The list goes on and on.

Valiyn is telling you the truth, it is a very competitive and expensive industry.
Don't lose your vision, but you may want to go to school first and learn more about the technology, and meet other people (students) students sometimes get together to work on their own projects. Upside: yeah there are lots of INTJ's - who else would sit in front of a computer stringing node systems together for 10 or 12 hours straight day after day. At least nerds are cool now - everyone wants to have at least one computer geek friend - we are all so useful.

[Ted]

Thanks for the info moomoogarden. Are you sure animatino courses are 60k for a year?!? That sounds... a bit high. lol

[Firebrand]

I program games and I feel it the responsible thing to do to chime in.

My recommendation is to finish a very small 2D game yourself before moving on to a group project where you have coordination of various aspects of game development (programming, art, sound, design, etc) and coordination of effort. It'll make your process much smoother and less haphazard. Also, I'd throw out the idea of anything multiplayer right from the get-go. That multiplies the difficulty of development by about 10. You should also pick a specialty aspect and run with it, unless you're doing this purely for a hobby. There's a huge difference between doing art and programming.

[blueback]

Maybe you could start with a brainstorming session. Just get anyone who's interested together in a chat room and come up with a project idea that is interesting and doable. I mean, a team needs a goal. If you don't have a game concept yet, then make the goal coming up with a game concept.

It's tough to get a project done with random volunteers. The only successful projects I've ever seen that incorporate random volunteers use them only for jobs that are basically unnecessary. If the people working on your project have no incentive then the barrier to entry for their job needs to be non-existent, so that when they inevitably disappear they don't take a lot of vital knowledge with them.

However, you can't get anything useful done if it only requires expendable jobs, so someone involved with the project has to be the brain-trust. Someone has to be the person who has the master plan, and saves all the files, and knows where all the programs are, and has links to all the necessary tutorials, and is constantly looking for new recruits. If you don't want to be that guy, I think you're going to have to join someone else's project.

[FeeLyX]

Maybe you could start with a brainstorming session. Just get anyone who's interested together in a chat room and come up with a project idea that is interesting and doable. I mean, a team needs a goal. If you don't have a game concept yet, then make the goal coming up with a game concept.

I totally agree! I'm currently doing a Bachelor in Game Development, in which we have to create lots and lots of games.

We always start with a brainstorming session. Afterwards, we choose the best ideas and make some prototypes of them. We then choose the prototype that's the most fun and/or most possible to work out (in the timespan we get). After that we start working the idea out further and eventually come to a design document. Then the actual development starts.

This is a great way of working, as we decide if things are possible only after making prototypes. Sadly enough, this can mean that a great idea doesn't make it.

I would be interested in joining you guys, actually even in leading the project, as I've lead multiple game projects before. Alas, I can't spare any time now. If you would start it up in the summer months, when I don't have any classes, I could join you.

Also, I would recommend you to go to Global Game Jam next year. It's where passionate people come together to make a game in 48 Hours. It's really fun and you can learn a lot. Check the website (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) for more info and to check the results of last year! I worked on the MonPoofDonkey project (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.).

If you want to develop games "quickly", you should check out the Unity Engine (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.). It's a great engine, with lots of possibilities. You can find a lot of tutorials on their website. Programming is done with scripts, which isn't that hard to learn.

By the way, I'm skilled in:

C++ (Advanced)
Javascript(Basic)
3DModeling (in 3DsMax)
Game Development
Texturing
Level Design


I don't have a portfolio website up yet, sadly enough.

[rusty]

If you're going to make a game in your spare time, then do yourself a huge favour and pick an existing game engine to work with. There are quite a few available for free, or for very little money. Existing all singing, all dancing engines are


Unity
C4
Torque
Source
Unreal Development Kit
Quake 3 open source release


Or an alternative is to pick several pre-canned components for rendering, audio, physics etc. and build the game using those. A good place to start would be looking at the following;


Ogre (Rendering)
Ilricht (Rendering)
Gamemonkey (scripting)
LUA (Scripting)
OpenAL (Audio)
Bass (Audio)
Bullet (Physics)
ODE (Physics)
Tokamak (Physics)


But for the love of god, don't try building everything from the ground up. If you want to make a game with limited resources(time, people, money), the last thing you want to do is to get caught up in the details of implementing rendering and other sub-systems. Leverage existing tech to give yourself a solid platform to build on.

[blueback]

Has anyone used the Unity engine? I've got some ideas I'd like to try so I've been reading through the tutorials and it seems pretty approachable for a non-programmer. I'd have to use something else to produce the models, I was thinking Blender since it's free and the Unity FAQ doesn't mention any difficulties importing the models.

[HackerX]

I haven't used Unity (hadn't heard of it before rusty linked it) but going through the website it seems pretty solid. I've have used Ogre3D and have always considered above anything else (excluding the game engines like source & quake) and it's definitely easier to work with, with plenty of documentation to go with it.

Unity seems like it's more of a game factory like tool rather than a pure engine like Ogre is though, which means you might miss out on the fun of working out why your 3D picking code isn't working properly and other fun things like that.

[Cygnus]

The is one guy that did a lot of work on his own...


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gamer is launching the 25th of March...following his development for some time.

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that is a two man project..only the voice actress would not be part the two man team.

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[blueback]

Is Love supposed to look like that, or is it the low-res version?

[rusty]

Unity seems like it's more of a game factory like tool rather than a pure engine like Ogre is though,


To me, Unity represents sort of the ideal goal that many game engine creators are trying to work towards. An engine where the nuts and bolts are hidden, but does not limit what it can do by all of the functionality via scripting and data driven systems.

It's no different to the Unreal Engine in that respect. I remember a very painful time spent working on an Unreal Engine game on the PS2. while getting the engine to run without crashing and at a decent framerate, I found the actual process of getting game play implemented to be quite painless.

In fact, we had to change very little of the gameplay script and level logic that had been created on the PC version of the game. Which is great, because I had my hands full in dealing with basic technical issues of the dammed engine.



which means you might miss out on the fun of working out why your 3D picking code isn't working properly and other fun things like that.

I can just feel the sarcasm from here!

Out of interest, what picking code have you had trouble with in the past? I've written lots of collision test code, so object picking it sort of a trivial extension of a lot of that. In fact, it's a slightly modified version of the code that I use for ray-cast based vehicles.

[HackerX]

To me, Unity represents sort of the ideal goal that many game engine creators are trying to work towards. An engine where the nuts and bolts are hidden, but does not limit what it can do by all of the functionality via scripting and data driven systems.


Yeah, I think they're good if just to give beginners an idea of the sheer scope involved in developing a project like that. Unity looks pretty substantial compared to others I've seen. The only problem with systems like that is when they don't offer something you need, so you end up having to work around their limitations etc. Unity seems pretty comprehensive though.



I can just feel the sarcasm from here!

Out of interest, what picking code have you had trouble with in the past? I've written lots of collision test code, so object picking it sort of a trivial extension of a lot of that. In fact, it's a slightly modified version of the code that I use for ray-cast based vehicles.

Hehe, I can think of a number of different occasions where picking has gotten the better of me. The one that came to mind was where I was playing with the Source engine. Now, Source comes with some picking/raycast functions which work fine if you're just casting against declared objects (i.e. everything but the world object). But I wanted to ray cast against the "world" to convert the mouse location into a position in the world (as you do). And the damn api just wouldn't cooperate. Which is what I get for trying to ask it to do something funky like that.

[rusty]

Something that I cam across yesterday was Love2d, which just totally rocks. It's a 2d game engine that lets the programmer write game code in Lua, in much the same way that Unity gives you a 3d run-time and let's you write code in Python or C#.

Check it out. It's amazingly groovy. Love 2d (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)

---------- Post added 03-25-2010 at 09:05 AM ----------

Yeah, I think they're good if just to give beginners an idea of the sheer scope involved in developing a project like that. Unity looks pretty substantial compared to others I've seen. The only problem with systems like that is when they don't offer something you need, so you end up having to work around their limitations etc. Unity seems pretty comprehensive though.


I can understand your hesitation on this 100%. As somebody who write game engines, gameplay systems as well as actually gameplay code, I'm all to often aware of the limitations imposed by a closed system.

If you're a technical programmer, using something like Unity, even though it allows you to write actual code in Python and/or C#, can feel very restrictive. There's always this "not invented here" urge and pride that technical people tend to have, and so they sort of back off from something like Unity because they have no idea of what's going on under the hood.

In instances like these, I would recommend using a bunch of components such as Ogre, GameMonkey, OpenAL and Racknet so you can have more control over what the engine does and concentrate on implementing a good gameplay/content system and the actual gameplay itself.

[FeeLyX]

Has anyone used the Unity engine? I've got some ideas I'd like to try so I've been reading through the tutorials and it seems pretty approachable for a non-programmer. I'd have to use something else to produce the models, I was thinking Blender since it's free and the Unity FAQ doesn't mention any difficulties importing the models.

I've used it on a lot of occasions, from prototyping to making full games. The great thing about Unity is that it's extremely user-friendly. I'd recommend you to look at the example projects and just copy and reuse the scripts that you need, as you're a non-programmer.

Blender is a good call, as it's one of the great free packages available for modeling. On a side note: If you would ever want anyone else to import your blender models into Unity, he needs to have blender installed.

If you have any problems or questions, don't be afraid to PM me.

[Firebrand]

If you're a technical programmer, using something like Unity, even though it allows you to write actual code in Python and/or C#, can feel very restrictive. There's always this "not invented here" urge and pride that technical people tend to have, and so they sort of back off from something like Unity because they have no idea of what's going on under the hood.

Not to mention that if you want to go in that direction with your career path, doing it is the only way to truly learn it. Using someone's api isn't going to give you that depth of knowledge.

Hehe, I can think of a number of different occasions where picking has gotten the better of me. The one that came to mind was where I was playing with the Source engine. Now, Source comes with some picking/raycast functions which work fine if you're just casting against declared objects (i.e. everything but the world object). But I wanted to ray cast against the "world" to convert the mouse location into a position in the world (as you do). And the damn api just wouldn't cooperate. Which is what I get for trying to ask it to do something funky like that.

Roll your own function. Api's aren't meant to be all encompassing "engines to end all engines". There's usually a lot of general cases and then some specifics made for that game. There is no "one size fits all" shoe. You just have to be able to create what you need if the api doesn't allow it directly.

From Brian Hook in Game Developer when interviewed on working at id :
For quite some time (over a decade now), computer scientists have been talking about modular software, component software, or “software ICs.” The theory is that programmers should be able to purchase a thoroughly debugged and optimized prepackaged software library (who are we kidding?) from some third-party development house and just drop it into a program — voila, instant new features and functionality.

Obviously, there is a difference between that theory and the harsh realities of creating a product that has to ship to real people on a real calendar. Libraries are written by programmers, and programmers are human, and humans make mistakes. Many times, these programmers will even have a different set of priorities than your own. This is the crux of the problem. The software component that you purchased might look great on paper, but when you drop it into your program and then spend a week looking for a bug that turns out to be a part of your new magic software IC, well, you tend to snap out of your dream world pretty quickly. Anyone who has wanted to firebomb Redmond, Washington, after using Microsoft’s DirectX knows what I’m talking about. And when a fix for that bug isn’t going to arrive in a timely fashion, you’re suddenly in the position of hacking around broken code, a process pleasantly known as “coming up with a workaround.” Deal with enough “workarounds,” and you’ll eventually reach a cross-over point where you realize that you may have been better off if you’d just written the code yourself.

[MrDoom]

I've revamped my own efforts to create a generic roguelike engine from scratch; the main difference this time around is I'm on Linux and have a somewhat better understanding of some of the libraries (ncurses) necessary to implement a roguelike.

Roguelikes are great as a first project, or for the lone hobbyist, I think. They're a lot of fun to play, too. Many people won't touch them because of the retro ascii graphics, and try for something far more complex than they're really prepared to handle at their given skill level, designwise. A shame.

Hope it goes better, I've almost got the basic routines for handling subscreens worked out in an OO framework.

[blueback]

I've used it on a lot of occasions, from prototyping to making full games.

Is it as complete a product as it claims? I mean, can you really just hit the "make this a game" button and have it spit out a set of files that anyone can play?

The great thing about Unity is that it's extremely user-friendly. I'd recommend you to look at the example projects and just copy and reuse the scripts that you need, as you're a non-programmer.

I'm looking at Unity because it seems to be a package that fully integrates everything required for the whole game lifecycle (not including the mesh-builder of course). I called myself a non-programmer because I'm great with logic, but have very little interest in chasing down a half dozen different programs and shuffling files from one to the other trying to get a finished product. Basically, that idea also applies within individual programs, too (syntax is my weak spot). I'm not trying to recreate God of War or anything, I just want to be able to reliably produce a finished (simple) project.

Blender is a good call, as it's one of the great free packages available for modeling. On a side note: If you would ever want anyone else to import your blender models into Unity, he needs to have blender installed.

Doesn't blender output a universal file format? In the documentation it seemed to only require exporting the file as an FBX and then telling Unity to read that. Are you saying if I sent an exported file to someone who had Unity, but didn't have Blender, they wouldn't be able to use the file? What if they had another modeling package that could read FBX files?

If you have any problems or questions, don't be afraid to PM me.

Cool. I'll take you up on that if I have a question that I don't think everyone would benefit from.

[FeeLyX]

Is it as complete a product as it claims? I mean, can you really just hit the "make this a game" button and have it spit out a set of files that anyone can play?^

Actually, it is. If you "build" your game, you get an .exe and a few folders and you can just run it. Your user doesn't need to install anything.

Doesn't blender output a universal file format? In the documentation it seemed to only require exporting the file as an FBX and then telling Unity to read that. Are you saying if I sent an exported file to someone who had Unity, but didn't have Blender, they wouldn't be able to use the file? What if they had another modeling package that could read FBX files?

You can send .FBX files to someone else and have Unity import it. If you, however, would just exchange .blend files, and that person doesn't have blender, Unity would give an error.