To INTJ girls...

[steerthestars]

There are not many of us around-- INTJ is the second least common personality type in general, and the absolute least common among women. In a group of a hundred women, there's still only a 50% chance that one of us is INTJ.

Let's face it. Nothing about us fits feminine stereotypes: we're cold, cunning, smart, calculating, insightful, ocassionally emotionally absent and insensitive to criticism. Our rareness means the likelihood of meeting another INTJ girl without the help of the interweb is quite low.

So, how do you guys deal with it? What other MBTI personalities in girls do you INTJ girls appreciate? Since feminine culture almost completely excludes INTJ girls, what parts of it do you hate the most?

I personally have a huge problem with women's magazines, except for feminist ones like bitch or shameless. They're condescending, repetitive (INTJs hate that!) and they make assumptions about women that only apply to ESFP/ESFJ/ENFJ/INFJ types.

[Alcestis]

I'd disagree with the "nothing about us fits feminine stereotypes" comment. Underneath it all, I'd describe myself as an enormous romantic underneath the seemingly impenetrable wall of logic. *smiles*

Frankly, I don't have many girlfriends, because of the reasons you mention. I prefer the company of men since many general traits found in women are nearly non-existent in said guys (pettiness, the belief that repetition/insertion of strong emotion into debate makes your argument somehow stronger, excessive vanity, and so on). One girlfriend who I suspect was an ISFJ was the only one who didn't offput me initially completely. Despite it all, I don't really care either way. If someone has nothing to add to the table on top of being irritating, male or female, there's no point in keeping them around. I've just happened to find more guys who fit that bill.

Women's magazines are fun if only to find interesting topics to bring up in future conversations and masquerade as a somewhat-feminine butterfly in a group of said women. It works for me, anyway. ^^

[theDoc]

..and admittedly, I like intj women more than other types because they're so damn awesome. However, finding intj women is already tough enough, finding single ones whom want to date you would be a hell of a task. Someone needs to be twiddling their fingers to create more of them intj women! ;)

[une fille]

I met another INTJ female in person once.. Didn't know she tested as an INTJ until much later on, but heh.. She hates me. It might be a blessing that we don't meet too often.
I like my female IxFP friend quite a bit, though I can be a little overwhelming for her sometimes. Truly, I do enjoy other females who are more outgoing than I am if we're in the right setting for it. I haven't made any new female friends in college, but an extremely religious ESFJ (my guess at her type) was fascinated with me, for some reason.

Since feminine culture almost completely excludes INTJ girls, what parts of it do you hate the most?
I, like the above poster, disagree. I enjoy a number of elements that are a stereotypical part of feminine culture. I wear makeup, dye my hair, am a lingerie junkie, and am vaguely interested in fashion.

[Storm]

We have several threads on the INTJ female experience.

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Nothing about us fits feminine stereotypes: we're cold, cunning, smart, calculating, insightful, ocassionally emotionally absent and insensitive to criticism. Our rareness means the likelihood of meeting another INTJ girl without the help of the interweb is quite low.

So, how do you guys deal with it? What other MBTI personalities in girls do you INTJ girls appreciate? Since feminine culture almost completely excludes INTJ girls, what parts of it do you hate the most?

I disagree that nothing about us fits feminine stereotypes. I am very feminine. I also don't find "cunning, smart, calculating and insightful" to be unfeminine in any way. I love jewelry (I have a large box of it), my house is full of potted plants and colors. I wear all feminine clothing.

And what about feminine culture that we like? I love children and nature.

There is no personality that I overtly hate - there are good and bad representations of all the types. Extroverts can be helpful in situations. I volunteer at an elementary school, and my extroverted friend makes sure that the whole office knows us and likes us. She has a talent which I don't. My ESFJ female friend loves to throw diner parties which I greatly enjoy. She was there for me when my boyfriend broke up with me. Of course, not all women are Es or Fs, and I like them too.

Mainly, though, I don't break the world up into "feminine culture" and "masculine culture." I like board games and sci-fi. I couldn't care less if that's a girl-thing or a boy-thing.

Edit: I wouldn't break up the lovers of easy-read female magazines by type. My ESFJ friend hates the sexist ones (Cosmo pops to mind) too. Of course, many women just read them out of boredom. Just look at the pictures and read the fun articles.

[schwartzie]

good topic! i will need to thinK about it

[WanderLust]

I rather enjoy not fitting in to societal norms. Even as a teen I never felt much need to fit in. Being eccentric is fun, and not being part of the herd gives me the freedom I instinctively crave. I am feminine when I feel like it, but I feel free to skip the pleasantries when I'm tired of the charade. I cannot imagine living the unexamined life, and wouldn't change my personality type. I am generally blissfully unaware (or at least pretend I am) of what's expected of me so it's hard for me to hate on cultural expectations. Honestly the whole concept of "feminine" seems completely contrived to me, so I define and redefine it as I see fit.

I get along best with other iNtuitive women or Sensors with a high IQ. I usually know within a few minutes of talking to someone whether or not we can be good friends. I am a little sad that I don't often meet women who are kindred spirits and I haven't been able to work out any solution for replacing friends that are in other states now.

While I sort of wish I could be described as "cold" and "emotionally absent", the truth is I'm simply emotional about different things than most people. I experience the full range of emotions at high intensities; I just try not to let them affect my judgment.

I have a strange fascination with women's magazines, though I find there is much more accurate and complete information about hair and makeup and such available online or at the library. Looking at a fashion mag does bring out my girly side, if only for a few minutes. I find most all magazines about any topic to be very shallow and content free, but that is more forgivable for fashion magazines than those that are supposed to be informative.

[Macbeth]

I'd disagree with the "nothing about us fits feminine stereotypes" comment. Underneath it all, I'd describe myself as an enormous romantic underneath the seemingly impenetrable wall of logic. *smiles*

I have a penis so perhaps I am not qualified for this thread, but still I must ask: do your emotions come rarely but when they do come they are deep bone-shaking emotions?

Nice collar in your avatar btw.

[Brittle]

There are not many of us around-- INTJ is the second least common personality type in general, and the absolute least common among women. In a group of a hundred women, there's still only a 50% chance that one of us is INTJ. Our rareness means the likelihood of meeting another INTJ girl without the help of the interweb is quite low


True enough. I don't know that I've ever met another (my best friend is an xNFJ, but we truly "get" each other)


Let's face it. Nothing about us fits feminine stereotypes: we're cold, cunning, smart, calculating, insightful, ocassionally emotionally absent and insensitive to criticism.

I wouldn't consider myself cold or cunning and I'm definitely sensitive to critisism if it comes from someone I value and respect. Nor do I think being smart and self-confident excludes me from being sexy and feminine.

What other MBTI personalities in girls do you INTJ girls appreciate?

I try to judge people on their merits, not their MBTI result. The most important quality for me, regardless of who you are, is that you are genuine.

Since feminine culture almost completely excludes INTJ girls, what parts of it do you hate the most?

Like others, I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. I do, however, have a problem with job interviews and the assumption by some men that because you are a female you won't be reliable since you will fall pregnant at the first possible chance and run off to have babies. I've come up against this a few times and it never ceases to infuriate me.


I personally have a huge problem with women's magazines, except for feminist ones like bitch or shameless. They're condescending, repetitive (INTJs hate that!) and they make assumptions about women that only apply to ESFP/ESFJ/ENFJ/INFJ types.


I can't stand the celebrity gossip style magazines or the ones that offer 10 Ways to Get Him HOT in Bed! They are mind-numbingly inane. When I was younger I used to read Maxim or Ralph since they had far more interesting articles and a good dose of humour. These days I tend to read the foodie or home & garden mags.

[dalidaisy]

I have a penis so perhaps I am not qualified for this thread, but still I must ask: do your emotions come rarely but when they do come they are deep bone-shaking emotions?

For me, yes, this is often the case...

On the topic of other females, I do not descriminate based on type. I don't like people in general & usually I like women the least. I prefer male friends. They seem to understand me better & I them.

Although I am not a stereotypical girl, per se, I do possess feminine traits. Heck, I spent a lot of my life deeply involved in fashion & modelling. Most recently I ran a cosmetic dermatology office.

I am not afraid of my femininity, but I do not embrace it either. It is just a part of me, as is every experience I've had since birth. I come from a strange, mangled mold.

Not that I really feel particularly unique. We're all snowflakes, right? How many women are truly the stereotypical female, fitting all facets? Same for men with masculine stereotypes? Frankly, I think we're all in the grey area.

Oh, and my best friend of 25+ years is an ESFP, my opposite in almost every way. Yes, she is VERY feminine, much more so than me.

[PeterIMC]

Question, do you feel like you´re completely different from the way you´re perceived by others?

[dalidaisy]

Question, do you feel like you´re completely different from the way you´re perceived by others?

I'm not sure exactly how others perceive me, really. I am often amazed by the number of friends I somehow collect. I have no idea why people want to be my friend, really. I am horrible at it. But, I keep attracting them like a mosquito zapper.

But, when people call me insensitive, I do get to feeling that they just don't quite understand me. Okay, sure, I'm not very sensitive emotionally, but I can understand THEIR sensitivity & that's all they really care about. I try to express this the best way I can, but for some reason it's like we're speaking different languages.

It's like the whole crying thing. If I don't grab the person, wrap my arms around them, rub their back & tell them it's gonna be okay, somehow I'm being insensitive. Undoubtedly they NEED that, but I am reluctant to go out of comfort zone unless it will actually benefit me in some way, you know? Even though I'm not touchy-feely, it doesn't mean that I cannot help them with their problem. I mean, I am the queen of problem solving.

Anyway, I guess my question to you would be, how do you perceive me? Then, I could give you a more educated guess on the subject...

[PeterIMC]

I know a couple of other INTJ's and I realize sometimes that their behavior is actually not so different from mine, but they are very closed. I don't think of my self as a closed person, but I know many people perceive me like that. (but that's because of social situations where I'm the last person to start a conversation.)

I perceive most people in this forum in very different ways. There are some I plain don't like, most don't say anything that's impressive, some sometimes say something interesting. You´re in the middle group for now.

By the way, the question wasn't specifically to you, but to all. Not trying to take over this thread either. I was just curious to how INTJ women would answer this question.

[dalidaisy]

By the way, the question wasn't specifically to you, but to all. Not trying to take over this thread either. I was just curious to how INTJ women would answer this question.

I know it wasn't aimed at me, but I was just trying to give you an answer. I am also curious what other INTJ females on this forum have to say about this. It's interesting...

EDIT: Oh, and I agree that I'm not very interesting, hence my not understanding all the friends. I guess we're in agreement there.

[Brittle]

I have this weird situation where people like me, but they're kind of scared of me at the same time... maybe it's that withering glare I have that says you-are-a-complete-dipshit-and-I-could-cheerfully-strangle-you-with-my-bare-hands-right-now.... or maybe it's that I say it out loud :p

I do know a lot of people when first meeting me think I'm aloof and a bit of a snob, or that I think I'm better/smarter than them, but I can only put that down to the fact I can be fairly articulate and sometimes use unfamilliar words (that's just the way I talk) and it's their own insecurity talking. It's certainly not my intent to come across that way. I think it doesn't help that I'm also happy to voice my own opinion - not that of the crowd - and some people seem to find that arrogant. I just think it's being honest.

Once they get to know me better they realise I'm quite likeable.. but there still remains that element of "ooh... I don't want to piss her off - she's scary".

It's kind of amusing, but not altogether a bad thing..!

[Ermisenda]

I cant stand most females I come across, I just don't understand their logic. I prefer the company of men on most occasions although I have come across women who aren't INTJ and we get along enough to be called good friends and there are always men you come across that are pathetic and crude. I have come across a lot of guys who have told me that 'See you understand what I'm saying,' 'That's what I thought about the whole situation!' 'You're like no girl I've ever met,' 'You're awesome!' Although it can get annoying when they idolize you for being so different and mentally appealing. While other guys are intimidated and feel competitive. I know a lot of females are intimidated by me.

I just laugh and find the humour in those magazines and shake my head. I don't care that I don't fit in for what is stereotypically 'feminine' because caring about fitting in is a waste of time and useless. I know that my usual lack of emotion is something my friends tend to pick on, calling me emotionally devoid and I've been repeatedly reminded that I'm distant a lot of the time.

I have a similar thing to what Brittle pointed out, the fear thing. I know one of my friends will rip off the other happily but when it comes to me she treads a lot lighter, she is afraid of me to some extent. I am friendly when people talk to me, I've grown to like interaction but a lot of people are intimidated to interact with me unless I make the first move.

I like who I am, the lack of attachments and the logical thinking even if at times I feel like I'm alone. I don't worry about fitting in.

[Storm]

Question, do you feel like you´re completely different from the way you´re perceived by others?

I'm not really sure how others perceive me. I mean, do we ever? People don't generally walk up to you say "Hi! I think you're a _____"

When I was a child (children are more honest about telling each other what they think), I was constantly told that I was "weird." I still don't know why this was. But I had a fair amount of friends, so I guess I wasn't that out there. Maybe they meant quirky but didn't have a word for it?

I've been told various things as an adult - mainly nice, because well, who goes around insulting each other? It's hard not to agree with nice things.

And then I've been told contradicting things by different people (such as that I'm too reserved, and that I have a talent at putting people at ease). There are many sides to my personality.

But who am I? All of them, I suppose.

[Ravel]

Question, do you feel like you´re completely different from the way you´re perceived by others?

I have definitely gotten that feeling. Just a month ago I had a friend of mine basically call me malicious (she said it in an 'accepting' sort of way but still...) . Granted, I like to tease and can be very sarcastic but I do this more in the spirit of playfulness than anything else. I don't act that way with people I don't like.
This makes me wonder if my other friends think the same way. I'm not trying to be mean, and am careful to avoid anything that I thought would bother them.

I tried to explain this to my friend but she has a habit of having one-sided conversations. At times like those I tend to space out and lose interest in even responding. :laugh:

[Brittle]

Granted, I like to tease and can be very sarcastic but I do this more in the spirit of playfulness than anything else. I don't act that way with people I don't like.

That's so funny - I'm just the same. I tell people if I'm lovely and polite it means I'm getting to know you, but once I start teasing it means I like you - I don't waste my witty sarcasm on people I don't like. If I don't like you, I just won't bother with you at all or I'll tell you straight out.

I think it confuses people though :confused:

[schwartzie]

I tell people if I'm lovely and polite it means I'm getting to know you, but once start teasing it means I like you - I don't waste my witty sarcasm on people I don't like.:

yes--me too
I like play

[spiritdetectivegirl]

Eh, there are pros and cons to being the minority of female personality types.
Thankfully, I enjoy being diffirent.

I hang out with people who are awesome people, regaurdless of thier gender. Though everyone hates being pegionholed, and the world's general view of women sucks when it comes to us rare oddities.

I hate how people judge women by thier gender in terms of strength. I hate how every women I've just about told that I don't intend to have children always quip with the "Never say never," "Haha, you'll change your mind," or "That's what I said when I was younger." I hate how the media portrays a woman's ideal man. I.E.,Tall, Muscle bound, a quasi half-breed of 'Thug' and 'Gentlemen' ect,.

I don't personally like main stream female magazines, though they sometimes make for a good laugh when I'm bored. I'm not really into fashion, though I like some Goth fashion (I frequent Gothic Beauty Magazine), but because of the victorian/addams family vibe, and most goth media share my brand of humor. Never got into make-up, though I like to use eyeliner in unique designs.

Though all and all I find it a bit more difficult to be Biracial than an INTJ woman. We're hardly ever represented in the media for what we really are.

But that's something else entirely. Maybe I should start and ethnicity INTJ thread up here, if there is one I would greatly appreciate a link to it.





spiritdetectivegirl added to this post, 1 minutes and 36 seconds later...


That's so funny - I'm just the same. I tell people if I'm lovely and polite it means I'm getting to know you, but once I start teasing it means I like you - I don't waste my witty sarcasm on people I don't like.

I fourth this notion.

[Alcestis]

I hate how the media portrays a woman's ideal man. I.E.,Tall, Muscle bound, a quasi half-breed of 'Thug' and 'Gentlemen' ect,.Maybe I just haven't been watching the same media (and at the risk of derailing the thread), but why do you hate such a portrayal? I haven't seen such a type of man in the media recently, so I'm asking you. Preferably tall, muscled enough to take care of himself (overmuscled is grotesque, to me), lean but with enough fat reserve so he doesn't die quickly during a period of decreased food availability, a laterally-thinking mind, keen intellect, gracious behavior to those weaker than himself, perhaps even occasionally picking fights (being a "thug" by your definition, maybe?) to assert superiority over other males. I don't know, to me, that seems like a base, animalistic attraction. That's the "ideal man portrayal " I usually see.

Nice collar in your avatar btw.Thank you.

[Samoan Corleone]

Only INTJ women can host The Weakest Link...

*awkward silence*

[Ravel]

I hate how the media portrays a woman's ideal man. I.E.,Tall, Muscle bound, a quasi half-breed of 'Thug' and 'Gentlemen' ect,.

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:laugh:

[Samoan Corleone]

I hate how the media portrays a woman's ideal man. I.E.,Tall, Muscle bound, a quasi half-breed of 'Thug' and 'Gentlemen' ect,.

I hate that too, it wrecks things for the eccentric, strategic, quiet-but-not-shy, kind-but-not-a-pushover-ish guys like me. Basically, they're saying guys have to alter themselves in fit the mould of both a bad boy and a gentleman. I'm neither of those, I'm me. I'm my own man, not the media's man, and not some stupid-ass caricature either.

[spiritdetectivegirl]

Maybe I just haven't been watching the same media (and at the risk of derailing the thread), but why do you hate such a portrayal? I haven't seen such a type of man in the media recently, so I'm asking you. Preferably tall, muscled enough to take care of himself (overmuscled is grotesque, to me), lean but with enough fat reserve so he doesn't die quickly during a period of decreased food availability, a laterally-thinking mind, keen intellect, gracious behavior to those weaker than himself, perhaps even occasionally picking fights (being a "thug" by your definition, maybe?) to assert superiority over other males. I don't know, to me, that seems like a base, animalistic attraction. That's the "ideal man portrayal " I usually see.

It was just one of my gripes of being a female INTJ.

Basicly what I was saying was, most portrayed men cator to mainstream or stereotypical women. My problem with it is, honestly there's nothing worng with liking those types of men, but it does'nt cator to me personally. So usually when I do see someone I'd like, they're ignored. It just sucks not to see your tastes exposed as much as you like, that's all.

I just like my men to be realistic. But, sadly, most times when women say they want a "real" man she's referring to the guy that has an edge, or air of danger while being a courteous, soild provider. It drives me bonkers when this is forced as what women prefer by other women (Think back to talk shows, popular romance movies, and teenage novels like Twilight), but this was all just a personal complant and observastion, nothing more.

Hope I answered your question.





spiritdetectivegirl added to this post, 16 minutes and 17 seconds later...

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:laugh:

Haha, yep!

[Alcestis]

Yes, you did answer it, thank you. Ah, I'd agree that it's irritating. Mainly because by enforcing such a stereotype, women start to equate "I want a man to do unexpected things to keep me on my toes/in love with him" with "I want a man to act a bit dangerously at times to keep me on my toes/in love with him". They're not the same thing. It's sobering if you imagine how many women remain in relationships with a guy who has bought into this, or imagining how many perfectly wonderful men attempt adopting the stereotype only to wind up frustrated and alone.

[spiritdetectivegirl]

Your welcome. Ack, exactly. Have you heard of the Vh1 show called Tool Academy? It's enough to make a sane person gag..

[khadi]

So, how do you guys deal with it? What other MBTI personalities in girls do you INTJ girls appreciate? Since feminine culture almost completely excludes INTJ girls, what parts of it do you hate the most?


I've never known anything else, so I don't have the sense that I have to "deal with" anything. With me it was more of a process of rejecting what didn't make sense. Choosing not to talk like my female peers, not to wear makeup, not to party, not to waste any of my time acting.

I don't care much about "feminine culture" (except to be very critical of it reinforcing sexism); I know there are people who appreciate it. What bothers me is when both males and females project the "feminine" stereotype onto me.

[Feral]

I don't seek them out, mainly because I don't know if I'd actually like hanging out with another INTJ.

[dalidaisy]

I don't seek them out, mainly because I don't know if I'd actually like hanging out with another INTJ.

There are a few INTJ women on this forum that I think I'd actually get along with in real life.


I think a positive thing would be that they wouldn't constantly be nagging me about my lack of emotions, trying to spend lots of time with me, asking me how I feel about things, forwarding religious spam, etc.

If we did argue, at least it would be an intelligent argument & devoid of emotional outbursts.

I'm not one of those INTJs that goes all ga ga over F types, so I think I would actually prefer someone with a strong I & T.

Heck, with another INTJ, we probably wouldn't have to talk much. We'd just look at each other & know what the other is thinking & agree.

Ahhh... A friendship without drama. Yea, I could deal with that...

[speedsuit721]

I think INTJs work better alone when it comes to group situations. Two INTJs... all that sarcasm and cynicism... probably be a real downer.

I definitely get along better with men. I grew up the only girl in my neighborhood, so I was tomboy, which maybe has something to do with how much I don't like women now. But men just seem to get my sense of humor better.

When it comes to dating, though, I'm finding it almost impossible to find someone compatible with me. I mean, who actively seeks out an emotionally unavailable, sarcastic, pessimist who doesn't like being touched? I certainly have romantic tendencies in my head, but they never translate to actual behavior. I'd love to be swept off my feet. But it's not going to happen.

[rara avis]

I agree with DaliDaisy, there are definitely some women here that I could get along with IRL.

But I also think there can be a weird prima donna effect to an INTJ... maybe I should just speak for myself, here, but I didn't realize until recently how used I am to other people making more interpersonal concessions than I do. INTJ-INTJ, depending on the people involved, of course, can take some adjustments of expectations.

It's not that I set out to steamroll or bully or demand things of anyone, it's usually much more subtle and "I" than that - it's more about unresponsiveness, on my part, a lack of reassurance given to others. I don't entirely do it on purpose, it's based on what I actually have to offer. It also has to do with the fact that my perception of myself is a little off-kilter - I really feel like I'm making concessions, but there may not be as much effective difference in my demeanor as I think.

I find that this can be a very funny thing to see from the outside, when faced with another INTJ. I would imagine even more so, if the INTJ is female, or maybe very "I" - think about the behavior you expect from the women around you. You wouldn't think you need another person to give much response- and really you don't- but it is disconcerting at first to find it missing, when you're accustomed to it. Very educational for me.



I don't have any close female friends, except my sister. She's an ENFJ. It can be exhausting, but we get on pretty well overall. Other women I'm friendly enough with to go to lunch or talk with at work once in a while are two ISTJs, an INFP (she thinks- I don't know her well enough to judge, though she doesn't seem very F to me), and an ENTJ. ISTJs are good, if they can flex a bit - they seem to get tense and wound up over all the wrong things. :)

[dalidaisy]

I find that this can be a very funny thing to see from the outside, when faced with another INTJ. I would imagine even more so, if the INTJ is female, or maybe very "I" - think about the behavior you expect from the women around you. You wouldn't think you need another person to give much response- and really you don't- but it is disconcerting at first to find it missing, when you're accustomed to it. Very educational for me.

Yea, I think it would take some getting used to & it would be a bit awkward at first, but, for me at least, I think I could get used to it & forget about talking to those other women altogether. I don't need many female friends anyway (especially the emotional, outgoing kind). Not that I'd ever get rid of my ESFP best friend. She's my link to the outside world & we've grown quite used to each other. The rest you can keep...

[rain]

I don't mind girlie mags once in awhile. Most people would consider me very feminine, but a paradox since I typically think like a "guy".

One of my good friends, an ENTJ is hilarious. She's this very thin, elegant blond who swears like a truck driver. When we're together, we've been known to cause ruckus and start all sorts of trouble. She's also considered very feminine as well. I think that either throws people off or it makes people aware of the contrast that makes the femininity more pronounced.

[Vagrant]

My ex was a female INTJ.

While there was the spark in the beginning, and a huge bright flame in the middle, it died rather quickly at the end.

The problem? Communication. Since we were both probably used to dealing with more conventional types, we ultimately ended up not being able to communicate what was necessary to keep going.

So my stance? Fun for friendships, not so much romance.

I've never really considered myself masculine, more androgynous (in mind and actions, not body) though.

[doublejava]

I did a personality report online about a year ago, and some interesting results came up. Part of the report compared my results to the average results based on gender. Here are some snippets:

"You are somewhat less outgoing than the average female is. Most
females like to keep themselves busy with continuous interaction,
conversations, and the company of others. You also enjoy these
things, but having some time on your own is equally important to
you."

--and--

"You are more strong-willed than most females are. Most females
are fairly careful about the feelings and opinions of other people.
You are also careful, but to a lesser extent. You're not afraid to say
what you think or stand up for your desires."

--lastly--

"You follow a brain path that is different from the one most females
follow. Most females are more interested in the connections between
the facts than in the facts themselves. In this way, your style of
thinking and being attracted to information is more like that of the
average male. You are interested in the information that is in the
'here and now' rather than the information that can be inferred or
speculated on."

Then I found this forum, and I realized I'm not completely whacked. Just different, and that's perfectly okay. :cool:

[BrittanyBoop]

I agree and disagree with many topics on this thread. Although I am an INTJ, I do consider myself girly, just not to a large extent. I wear girls' clothing and all that accompanies with it (heels, dresses, jewelry, occasional make-up). I am very into fashion and would actually like to model. As far as friends go, I don't have too many girl friends: I find most girls annoying and superficial. That's one thing about me--I am a very mellow and down-to-earth person, and a lot of females don't have these qualities (not the ones I've run into at least). For example, after a long day of class, I come back to my dorm room and just need to close my door and have a little "me" time. But my suitemate, who is a female, constantly opens my CLOSED door and talks my head off about her day, a boy she met, or what make-up or hairstyle she should get. I am not one for small talk and don't like talking about something if it has no purpose or meaning.

Oh, and my best friend (whom I have known since I was 11), is a gay male. I love gay men. They are better than the real thing.

[DDL]

While I find it irritating that most of the known world seems to expect women to fit the feminine mold it's set forth (and that many parents strongly encourage this to their little girls!), I really don't care. They can think whatever they'd like to, it's my life and if I want to constantly wear pants, not apply makeup, not squeal over children, or decline obsessing over shoes, I'm going to go right ahead and do it.

This is part of the reason most of the people I get along with are men. "Feminine" people irritate me to no end.
I remember when I was in the middle of a physics lab meeting with a fellow student (male) and my (also male) physics professor, a girl I know walked in to ask another female in the room if the color she'd chosen for her letterhead or something looked all right. "I wanted a happy pea green but I ended up with this green, how do you think it looks?" she asked the other girl. All the while my professor, the other guy, and I were exchanging "oh-brother" glances.
The way most women think is a complete enigma to me.

[Storm]

^Hmmm....most women I meet are not nearly that shallow. I have not noticed that women on average are any less intelligent than the average man that I meet.

Sorry, it just really bothers me that there is this prevalence on this board that the average woman is a mindless, overly emotional dimwit.

[dalidaisy]

^Hmmm....most women I meet are not nearly that shallow. I have not noticed that women on average are any less intelligent than the average man that I meet.

Sorry, it just really bothers me that there is this prevalence on this board that the average woman is a mindless, overly emotional dimwit.

Well, I think a lot of INTJs find most people, men & women, mindless, overly emotional & dimwitted, from what I've seen here. There is a bit of an elitist attitude running through the threads. Neither the elitists or dimwits bother me much, I just keep to myself & try not to judge too awfully much. I'm cool with them all as long as they respect my space...

[Antar]

It was just one of my gripes of being a female INTJ.


I just like my men to be realistic. But, sadly, most times when women say they want a "real" man she's referring to the guy that has an edge, or air of danger while being a courteous, soild provider. It drives me bonkers when this is forced as what women prefer by other women (Think back to talk shows, popular romance movies, and teenage novels like Twilight), but this was all just a personal complant and observastion, nothing more.
spiritdetectivegirl added to this post, 16 minutes and 17 seconds later...

Haha, yep!

Interestingly i was just talking with my ex girlfriend about what females usually go for in a man (she doesn't understands female logic either) and she told me that at times females want a men that is spontaneous but stable, adventurous but with a clear path for the future, emotionally responsive but extremely manly too. Bottom line they want a schizophrenic

And i think one of the causes of this is all the romantic novels and idealized characters (like twilight) that female literature and films are bombarded with. These characters share those personality traits that in real life would be extremely hard to find because they belong to different types of personalities.

Just my 2 cents

[dalidaisy]

And i think one of the causes of this is all the romantic novels and idealized characters (like twilight) that female literature and films are bombarded with. These characters share those personality traits that in real life would be extremely hard to find because they belong to different types of personalities.

My teenage daughter is "in love" with Edward (from Twilight). She's seen the movie probably 10 times & owns memorabilia. Now I'm I wondering if she is forming her "what I want in a guy" list in her head. If so, some guy's gonna have a tall order to fill...

[Storm]

Interestingly i was just talking with my ex girlfriend about what females usually go for in a man (she doesn't understands female logic either) ...

:irked: Female logic?

I think women "go for" as many different types of men as there are men. But really, it sounds like what your ex was trying to explain was what some call moderation.

[Antar]

My teenage daughter is "in love" with Edward (from Twilight). She's seen the movie probably 10 times & owns memorabilia. Now I'm I wondering if she is forming her "what I want in a guy" list in her head. If so, some guy's gonna have a tall order to fill...

Yes, i saw that twilight movie because i girl i like talked me into it, we went to see it (her second time by the way) and as a good INTJ i said what i thought of the movie. She is 25 but she got entangled into that teen vampire romance euphoria.

And yes i know a lot of females in love with that high school vampire, the new Mr Darcy if you will (although i would rather meet Mr Darcy hehe).

In a note apart i like Coppola's Dracula better for a love story





Antar added to this post, 5 minutes and 33 seconds later...

:irked: Female logic?

I think women "go for" as many different types of men as there are men. But really, it sounds like what your ex was trying to explain was what some call moderation.

I will invite her to the forum so you can discuss female logic in her words :laugh:

[dalidaisy]

Yes, i saw that twilight movie because i girl i like talked me into it, we went to see it (her second time by the way) and as a good INTJ i said what i thought of the movie. She is 25 but she got entangled into that teen vampire romance euphoria.

And yes i know a lot of females in love with that high school vampire, the new Mr Darcy if you will (although i would rather meet Mr Darcy hehe).

In a note apart i like Coppola's Dracula better for a love story

Well, if the richest, smartest, cutest, undead thing in town was suddenly drawn to me & didn't want to eat me, I'd probably be a bit enamored, too, I guess. But, I agree, I prefer Coppola's Dracula as well (even though it stars Winona Ryder). It was much sexier, darker & adult themed than the tween safe Twilight film. However, I will admit that I enjoyed the Twilight movie when I saw it. The baseball scene is the best part, IMO...

Regardless, they are fiction & thus promote an unreal image of men (& women) as love interests.

[Antar]

Regardless, they are fiction & thus promote an unreal image of men (& women) as love interests.

Yes, i have heard romantic movies and novels be called the porn for women because they create this unreal image of men, however it has been my experience that men usually don't mind if their girlfriend doesn't look like a porn star but the other way around i am not sure.

[Macbeth]

Well, I think a lot of INTJs find most people, men & women, mindless, overly emotional & dimwitted, from what I've seen here. There is a bit of an elitist attitude running through the threads. Neither the elitists or dimwits bother me much, I just keep to myself & try not to judge too awfully much. I'm cool with them all as long as they respect my space...

Well if only the plebeians would learn their place it wouldn't be much of a problem. Problem is they do things like look at you or speak to you or touch you as though you were as low born as them.

*sigh* However do we survive this life?

[Anumidium]

I don't seek them out, mainly because I don't know if I'd actually like hanging out with another INTJ.

I've actually met two other female INTJs. While we never became friends, I got along with one of them much better than the other one. I think the key is shared interests and the ability to "lower one's quills," so to speak - the one I did not get along with had very pronounced INTJ "arrogance" and did not share interests with me. The one I did get along with shared my interest in music and art, and though we didn't talk much I actually felt at ease working around/with her (it was a work environment), which is a very rare thing. So I'd say INTJ-INTJ is not impossible, would actually work even, if the odds weren't so astronomically against it..

[Cairech]

You're right that there is nothing typical about me! I have always despised, well, later softening to resent and sort of a dissapointed feeling, but originally despised the stereotypes of women. and I did not get along with girls who happily plunked themselves into the stereotypes.

Nevertheless, I have always felt VERY feminine. I just don't grok why things that fascinate and interest me are usually labelled "masculine", such as science, technology, space operas, martial arts, arguing, etc.

Most of my girlfriends turn out to be ENTP or ESTJ. Loud, bossy, and at least a little bit out of sync with society. However, best friends are usually ENFP or ENFJ.

And I hate assumptions. UGH!

[steerthestars]

I have this weird situation where people like me, but they're kind of scared of me at the same time... maybe it's that withering glare I have that says you-are-a-complete-dipshit-and-I-could-cheerfully-strangle-you-with-my-bare-hands-right-now.... or maybe it's that I say it out loud :p

I do know a lot of people when first meeting me think I'm aloof and a bit of a snob, or that I think I'm better/smarter than them, but I can only put that down to the fact I can be fairly articulate and sometimes use unfamilliar words (that's just the way I talk) and it's their own insecurity talking. It's certainly not my intent to come across that way. I think it doesn't help that I'm also happy to voice my own opinion - not that of the crowd - and some people seem to find that arrogant. I just think it's being honest.

Once they get to know me better they realise I'm quite likeable.. but there still remains that element of "ooh... I don't want to piss her off - she's scary".

It's kind of amusing, but not altogether a bad thing..!


This, exactly. Everyone says that to me-- they don't make fun of me because they're afraid I'll retort with something that's just so much wittier and nastier that it's not worth insulting me. I also agree with everything else you said.

But aren't INTJs great conversationalists?





steerthestars added to this post, 3 minutes and 19 seconds later...

I've actually met two other female INTJs. While we never became friends, I got along with one of them much better than the other one. I think the key is shared interests and the ability to "lower one's quills," so to speak - the one I did not get along with had very pronounced INTJ "arrogance" and did not share interests with me. The one I did get along with shared my interest in music and art, and though we didn't talk much I actually felt at ease working around/with her (it was a work environment), which is a very rare thing. So I'd say INTJ-INTJ is not impossible, would actually work even, if the odds weren't so astronomically against it..

One of my very good female friends is probably INTJ (though she hasn't been tested. She fits, though.) We get along well because we enjoy each other's sophisticated senses of humour without being offended by the nastiness, and we know we can be playfully mean to each other without repercussions. However, if we spend too much time together, we start to hate each other, probably 'cause we're too similar. We're both dominant personality types, that's why/

[Deliberator]

I deal with being an INTJ female quite easily. I entrench myself in the things I like and I value being unique. I can't imagine anything worse than truly "fitting in", because that would mean I'm just like everyone else. So there is a lot of comfort I take in the fact that I don't have many friends... I don't want them, I don't need them. It took a sharp learning curve during college when I was lonely and my MBTI results to really figure out and be comfortable with who I am.

I appreciate other INT's; NF's are probably my second favorite and ST's can be nice in smaller doses. SF's? Not often. I've met a few extroverted SF's that were fun to hang out with sometimes, when I'm in the mood for it (intelligence goes a long way).

The part of female culture I hate the most is probably the complete lack of analytical prowess and fascination for interesting ideas. In other words, women are mainly offensive because they bore the hell out of me. Men are not as likely to be boring because there are more T's and N's to be had, but they can be pretty dull as well.

The most annoying thing about relationships with women, besides how dull they are, is that they always seem to need emotional validation. I HATE validating emotions. What a chore.

[Prunesquallor]

I hang around with mostly nerds and outcasts, so I don't run into a lot of the typical female bullshit, or the male bullshit from friends, anyway, though I get it from random annoying strangers. Library school was the best for that: quiet, introverted, literate people who will voluntarily talk about books! Yes, there are exceptions, but it was awesome, really.

And yeah, I don't follow the typical girly streotypes because they annoy me. But then, nearly all stereotypes annoy me. They're just limiting and rather dull.

[spiritdetectivegirl]

Interestingly i was just talking with my ex girlfriend about what females usually go for in a man (she doesn't understands female logic either) and she told me that at times females want a men that is spontaneous but stable, adventurous but with a clear path for the future, emotionally responsive but extremely manly too. Bottom line they want a schizophrenic

And i think one of the causes of this is all the romantic novels and idealized characters (like twilight) that female literature and films are bombarded with. These characters share those personality traits that in real life would be extremely hard to find because they belong to different types of personalities.

Just my 2 cents

Precisely my point. Besides, there are much better vampire novles to be obsessed with.

[AliTree]

Let's face it. Nothing about us fits feminine stereotypes: we're cold, cunning, smart, calculating, insightful, ocassionally emotionally absent and insensitive to criticism.

true, not the feminine personality stereotype, but doesn't mean we don't look just as feminine as the super moody girl. my INFP boyfriend thinks i'm incredibly feminine naturally, even though i don't agree. ha.

Our rareness means the likelihood of meeting another INTJ girl without the help of the interweb is quite low.

So, how do you guys deal with it?

....it's not really a problem for me since i really don't like interacting with females. ha. i relate to guys better and don't really care to try to relate to girls.

What other MBTI personalities in girls do you INTJ girls appreciate?

i appreciate all MBTI types in both genders. they all bring out different parts in me and have interesting views. INTP females, though, are the easiest to connect and get along with for me. the less emotionally driven the female is, really, the easier to befriend for me.

Since feminine culture almost completely excludes INTJ girls, what parts of it do you hate the most?

I personally have a huge problem with women's magazines, except for feminist ones like bitch or shameless. They're condescending, repetitive (INTJs hate that!) and they make assumptions about women that only apply to ESFP/ESFJ/ENFJ/INFJ types.

eh, i just kinda ignore what bugs me. i try to find positives in everything, also. i have no issue with females magazines because i enjoy the photography and fashion. ha. fashion is a hobby of mine, though, so.

[Gabrielle]

There are not many of us around-- INTJ is the second least common personality type in general, and the absolute least common among women. In a group of a hundred women, there's still only a 50% chance that one of us is INTJ.

Let's face it. Nothing about us fits feminine stereotypes: we're cold, cunning, smart, calculating, insightful, ocassionally emotionally absent and insensitive to criticism. Our rareness means the likelihood of meeting another INTJ girl without the help of the interweb is quite low.

So, how do you guys deal with it? What other MBTI personalities in girls do you INTJ girls appreciate? Since feminine culture almost completely excludes INTJ girls, what parts of it do you hate the most?

I personally have a huge problem with women's magazines, except for feminist ones like bitch or shameless. They're condescending, repetitive (INTJs hate that!) and they make assumptions about women that only apply to ESFP/ESFJ/ENFJ/INFJ types.

Er, since when is INTJ the supreme alpha male personality? One of my best friends in university is an INTJ, just like me - she's possibly one of the girliest girls I've ever met.

Being able to think logically or liking rules or recharging when you're by yourself or relying on your "sixth" sense has nothing to do with gender roles.

My friend (an INTJ) said, "right, so we're supposed to be experts in our interests. So guess what? I'll specialise in shoes." That's an INTJ thing to do, for me.

[Valielen]

^ Shoes are ace though... and handbags! But shoes are better...

[charolastra]

I don't think I've had much trouble navigating the world as an INTJ female. Perhaps because my father is also an INTJ and has been very interested in MBTI since the '80s, he recognized it in me and helped me to build social skills against what my nature might dictate. Most days, you would have NO clue my dad is an INTJ because he is able to shift his personality in social situations to what is required of him. In many ways, my life mirrors that.

I'm also a "highly sensitive person" which in some ways contradicts my INTJ nature in general. I'm very empathic to other people when I care to be involved with them in anything greater than in passing, so I generally am able to find common ground with them.

That doesn't mean I'm not aloof, quiet, and stoic most of the time. I just know how to turn on the more outgoing, engaging personality when I need to.

I've only met one other girl who I am sure is an INTJ and while we had a terse understanding of each other, we drove each other nuts. In fact, the day I met her in the airport on the way to a study abroad summer program, she announced that she was an INTJ and that's why people might not "get" her. I told her that attitude is a crutch and we never were able to get along beyond that until the last week or so. :) One of the biggest problems that I had was that she was very inconsiderate of others. Now, I've never considered any of my INTJ male friends to be inconsiderate outright. Yes- they might make social faux pas accidentally, but not to any extreme measure. She took off without telling any of us on a night out in a city and didn't answer her phone. She said she was going to order a drink in the bar we were at and instead walked out and went elsewhere when the rest of us weren't looking. Later on, she seemed to not realize why that was so wrong when I was outraged. She said she didn't want to tell us she was leaving because it would be awkward. :P We're on much better terms now because we do understand where each other is coming from completely, just don't necessarily agree with each other's means.

[hkteo618]

My general experience with people is that they don't usually find me approachable. But they are taken by surprise after they talk with me; because I'm not as unapproachable as they thought. For those who have known me for some time, they cannot believe that I'm an introvert. I'd say that there's a huge space between I-E, N-S, T-F and J-P. People can grow and shift. Being in the extreme is unlikely to be healthy in whatever personality, not just MBTI, I guess. For me, MBTI is an excellent tool to understand people different from myself, rather than a tool to judge them. Some I can get along better because of such understanding, empathy and acceptance, like the Fs. But some others, I'm still learning, like the Ps. My friends include many different types. There are ways to bring out the best in all types. What matters most is not their types but whether they are healthy personality-wise.

[floramacivor]

I'm not one of those INTJs that goes all ga ga over F types

Hmmm. I never thought about it before, but maybe I am one of those INTJs that goes all ga ga over F types. I see my lack of warmth as a defect, and it makes me value it that much more in others. I'm fascinated by women who are warm and fuzzy and actually reach out and help others because I value what they do, but I can't do those kinds of things myself because being around people makes me too uncomfortable to be very helpful to them. When women like that understand that I'm okay under my quirks and awkward sociability, and accept me without trying to make me just like them, we usually end up being best friends. :)

Sometimes girls who are into girly things are fascinating to me, and I don't mind hanging out with women like that as long as I don't feel pressure to be like them. I like to think that personality types can benefit from and even learn from each other. That's the ideal, anyway.





floramacivor added to this post, 2 minutes and 17 seconds later...

^ Shoes are ace though... and handbags! But shoes are better...

I love handbags! They appeal to my love for organizing stuff.

[JohnDoe]

Hmmm. I never thought about it before, but maybe I am one of those INTJs that goes all ga ga over F types.

Hi, I'm an F type.

No seriously, I know lots of friends who are otherwise the most confident, outgoing people in the world who are really, seriously intimidated by INTJ women. I don't understand why for the life of me though.

[Xanthippe]

I've been coping with the difficulties many have mentioned by creating several 'masks' that work in different circumstances. When dealing with people who might advance my career, I sort of turn on the charm and talk about the things I know they'll enjoy. When around peers, however, I act rather like an ENTJ (I think), and I'm less girly. Around friends, I'm somewhat less clearly 'T' and more girly in a lot of ways.

I love fashion and makeup, and I've also found that looking as pretty as possible often makes life easier. My interests aren't solely masculine or feminine - I prefer the humanities infinitely over maths and sciences, but I love a good argument, and I enjoy figuring out how things work. People with stereotypically 'girly' personalities annoy me infinitely, but I'll help close friends work out their romantic problems if they must discuss them with me. I hate chick flicks and violent video games, but if forced to choose, I'd take the latter. I hate 'chick lit,' but I've gotten through four years of high school English without letting on. I do wish I could be warmer sometimes.

I've been called intimidating many times. I generally try to rectify things by showing a little vulnerability, but it's usually too late. That's really the worst part of being an INTJ. I want respect, but I hate being feared.

[JustMel]

For me, yes, this is often the case...

On the topic of other females, I do not descriminate based on type. I don't like people in general & usually I like women the least. I prefer male friends. They seem to understand me better & I them.

Although I am not a stereotypical girl, per se, I do possess feminine traits.

I am not afraid of my femininity, but I do not embrace it either. It is just a part of me, as is every experience I've had since birth. I come from a strange, mangled mold.

Not that I really feel particularly unique. We're all snowflakes, right? How many women are truly the stereotypical female, fitting all facets? Same for men with masculine stereotypes? Frankly, I think we're all in the grey area.

Oh, and my best friend of 25+ years is an ESFP, my opposite in almost every way. Yes, she is VERY feminine, much more so than me.

I agree with all of this and am very much the same way and especially the bolded portions. My bestfriend is the only female other than my children that I can tolerate for more than five minutes without wanting to slap them to see if the inane chatter will cease.

I'd rather hang out and play a video game with the guys than go to the *shudder* mall with the girls and be asked my opinion on what makes their ass look fat and try to find a nice way to say "your ass makes your ass look fat"





JustMel added to this post, 2 minutes and 22 seconds later...

^ Shoes are ace though... and handbags! But shoes are better...

Handbags? Ugh. If it doesn't fit in my pocket it doesn't go. My ID and cash fit in the checkbook which fits in the pocket. Phone fits in the other pocket when I can be bothered to remember I own a phone.

For work or class I carry a backpack or messenger bag. One is black and one is military green.

I don't understand the obsession with shoes and purses.

I think my warm and fuzzies only kick in when I'm dealing with babies, old people and abuse victims. Other than that I tend to think you should just suck it up and move on. Babies and old people because they actually need someone to look out for them and the abuse victims because I've been there so I can offer empathy and solutions.

[dalidaisy]

I think my warm and fuzzies only kick in when I'm dealing with babies, old people and abuse victims. Other than that I tend to think you should just suck it up and move on. Babies and old people because they actually need someone to look out for them and the abuse victims because I've been there so I can offer empathy and solutions.

This is where our similarities stop. I am not fond of babies or old people in the least. I'd rather (insert worst thing you can think of) than care for babies or old people. They frustrate & disgust me & are anything but cute.

Have you ever been to a nursing home? They've got old people that are like starving zombies. All skin & bones, mouths hanging agape. And when they manage mutter something, all I hear is "braaains".

Don't even get me started on babies. *shutters*

I don't empathise with abuse victims any more than I empathise with car, train, plane, etc. wreck victims or disabled vets & the like. Their circumstances are unfortunate, to be sure, but it's not my concern. I'd much rather go shoe shopping than hear their sob stories. I'm also not fond of sharing mine & do not seek empathy or pity.

Life just is what it is. Everyone's got something to cry about. We all find our own things to help us get over the pain. I, personally, prefer chocolate (preferably with strawberries). Makes me feel better every time.

Wait, what were we talking about???

[Cocoa]

I have to say I am intimidating. I have been told that many times. Sometimes it's good but most of the time it's bad. It's good when some idiot makes some sort of statement that is ridiculous ... I'll be at their throat in seconds. :grin: However I find I intimidate people, even some of my teachers!!

On girlishness: I think that's an individual choice. I'm not girly nor do I care to be. But that is my choice. I just like to be different and not care about things that to me are arbitrary (like makeup for example). I like to pull out from reality a lot because that is where I am most creative, in my N space. So things that matter in reality, like makeup or fancy shoes, make no difference to me at all.

About other INTJ women: I don't think I've ever met one! 0.5% of population isn't very high. I was best friends for a decade with and ENTJ and that worked really really well. :)

[d3br074]

many guys like girls that aren't stereotypically feminine or waste time with sensor/feeler sentiments much. Trouble is that kind of girl is so rare!