What now? Stupid relationship crap... [Archive]

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Feral

03-26-2009, 05:54 AM

So here's a long story-

In January of 2008, my husband and I ended up separating. We had some problems, but even today I won't say those were any sort of huge problem, at least not the sort of which you get a divorce over. I was baffled for a long time as to why such small things could have pulled us apart. And then I found out what my supposed best friend had been up to.

My best friend of seven years, who incidentally was my first love, ex fiance years ago. He was also married, and he had a daughter in November of 2007. My friend had a very strong personality, and was an absolute genius. He is still one of the only people who has really ever understood me, and been able to keep up with me mentally. He was a master of manipulation, he could get just about anyone to do anything... except for me, which he got a kick out of. My husband, however, is not so strong willed. In fact, he's very impressionable, and buys into the opinions of others very, very easily.

It seems my friend never quite got over me. He was dangerous, as he had the trust of both me and my husband, and he was very, very good at playing us. All the while he was telling my husband horrible things about me, and telling me that my husband was saying horrible things about me, while still throwing in something favorable every once in awhile to keep my spirits up.

Time went on, I moved on and got a boyfriend. My husband's girlfriend who he had been seeing moved in with him. We both tried moving on, futilely. My boyfriend was a great guy, and a perfect test. He was pretty much everything I could have wanted in a man, but I couldn't bring myself to have the same sort of passion I had entertained for my husband, which I felt to be terribly unfair to nice boyfriend, and myself. So I left him in the middle of the summer, intent on either getting my husband back, or resigning to a life of peaceful solitude.

Last November, my husband sends me this Myspace message in a drugged up stupor (he had just had his wisdom teeth taken out), saying a lot of the things I knew he had been wanting to say (he's fairly easy to read, but he's also a chicken when it comes to talking about hard things). From there, we started exploring the possibility that we might be able to get back together. But he was still with his girlfriend, and he was afraid that if he broke it off with her and got back with me, we'd end up just breaking up again a year down the road.

During that time, my friend made his move. He wanted me back. From thousands of miles away, he worked me right into position. He left his wife and daughter. I almost went with it, as he had slyly broken down my resolve for my husband just enough for me to not really care what happened to myself. But I told my friend that no matter where my body might be, I could never be his again. I had promised myself to someone else, and signing some papers wouldn't bring any of that back. It took awhile for him to get that idea through his head, but when he did, he figured he didn't want anything else to to with me. He was terrified of being alone, and so he tried going back to his wife. She pretty much told him to fuck off (the only time I've ever entertained any real respect for her), and so he went and joined the army.

So after all of that, I'm still working on my husband. We send a lot of letters and text messages. Come February, I couldn't take any more. He lacked the testicles to break up with his girlfriend. So I let her log in to my inbox, and read the treasures therein.

I knew the next series of events. I sent the message on February 12th. I had told him I was going to send it, but knew he wouldn't ever act on it. I knew that I was going to break her heart, and I knew he was going to be extremely pissed. I knew I had a month before he was going to cool down and contact me. So I left him alone.

That letter that I sent to her was the last bit of fight I had left in me. Again, I knew it would be a month before I could continue, but I lost the will to continue. I gave up. Lo and behold, a month and a week later (Saturday), he stops by. He talks for three hours straight. His girlfriend (who it turns out is a crazy, abusive alcoholic) is moving out on April 15th. Now, after being separated for over a year, he's finally willing to try to start over again.

Then he came over again on Tuesday and we had some lunch. Then we had some other things that neither of us expected at all. I only put this in because I thought it was pretty funny... we're about to rip each other's clothes off, and I ask him if he's going to be ok with this or if he's going to get in trouble for it (they're technically broken up, but crazy bitch is CRAZY). His response- "Trouble? Get in trouble by my mistress on whom I'm cheating with my wife, who I'm divorcing though with the hope of getting back together with?"... well, when you put it that way...

So now, to the point!

Now that I've spent so much energy trying to get to this point, I have no idea where to go from here. I'm very used to being alone. I'm not really good with people. I have no idea how to date. In fact, the way we got together in the first place was we just kind of ended up sleeping together. It's not what we intended but that part is done (well, there wasn't any actual sleeping).

Problem is, when I gave up, I gave up everything. I trust absolutely no one, and I stopped myself from fully feeling anything. Now that I try, it doesn't really come. I'm planning on getting some sort of counseling to try to rationalize myself into having a semi-normal range of emotions again, so hopefully that will do something. I had held on until February, which was hard enough. I couldn't hold it any longer. If it weren't for the fact that I had already spent so much time on this and gone through so much pain, I would have let go much sooner.

(long story made short, I've been separated from my husband now for over a year, after much trying and much drama he's finally willing to try to give things another shot)

But what the hell do I do now?

If I can't learn something from my own experience, I usually try to draw from someone else's, but I don't know of anyone who's ever been in this situation before, at least not like this. Most people just tell me that I'm crazy or stupid and I can do better. I don't deny any of this, as I may be crazy and stupid, but 'better' is a subjective term. He's not perfect, but no one is. I can't feel the way I did about him with anyone else, and I have absolutely no desire to try with anyone else. We do have a child together, and we both want to be together for him as well as us. We really did have a great relationship before we allowed ourselves to be pulled apart.

So he wants to start over, fresh. Which I agree with, and was what I was trying to get him to do all along. But I don't know how to date or any of that crap. My ideas seem generic.

Anyone have any ideas on how to kick-start this properly?

alphawolf

03-26-2009, 06:04 AM

Things have changed for both of you, and the world has also changed. The key here is fresh start.

Do new things together that you haven't done before. Try to avoid doing the same old things that you did before. Don't let yourselves fall back into the same old groove.

Make an agreement that all previous behavioral agreements, patterns, and assumptions are now invalid and everything is up for discussion and agreement again.

That should just about do it.

Feral

03-26-2009, 06:07 AM

I already told him I don't hold any grudges or anything. I don't bring up things from the past. I'm hoping he can do the same, but I don't think that's going to be much of a problem.

Vagrant

03-26-2009, 10:22 AM

What I also see as a problem is what your "best friend" did to you. That would cause trust issues in anyone, especially the weaker minded. I'm really glad you were able to resist him though.

Basically, I'm of the opinion that in order to get your full range of emotions back, you need the trust that you once had. I know I find it difficult to care about people I don't trust. This could simply come with time, or purposely attending couple therapy to build up trust with each other.

Synamon

03-26-2009, 10:33 AM

I already told him I don't hold any grudges or anything. I don't bring up things from the past. I'm hoping he can do the same, but I don't think that's going to be much of a problem.
It appears that you aren't blameless in all this drama either, try not to forget that. It sounds like you've never gotten over your husband, that's a good start for a reconciliation. It will take a lot of time and work to develop trust with each other, based on your first post I'm not sure you ever had much of that to start with.

I really think it would help both of you if you got a marriage counselor involved at this point. You are going to have a lot of issues to work through and a third party can help you keep that on track.

Feral

03-26-2009, 10:45 AM

It appears that you aren't blameless in all this drama either, try not to forget that. It sounds like you've never gotten over your husband, that's a good start for a reconciliation. It will take a lot of time and work to develop trust with each other, based on your first post I'm not sure you ever had much of that to start with.

I really think it would help both of you if you got a marriage counselor involved at this point. You are going to have a lot of issues to work through and a third party can help you keep that on track.

I'm certainly not blameless. We both had a lot of shit that could have definitely been worked out together.

I've suggested the couples therapy, but he's pretty resistant. I may be suggest it again a bit further down the road once we're a little better established.

rara avis

03-26-2009, 10:52 AM

Feral

03-26-2009, 11:16 AM

I think the hard part for me would be not to be swayed by the part of the relationship with him that'd be familiar & comfortable. It'd be all too easy to roll right back into the little you-shaped space that you wore into him (and vice versa) in the past. From my POV - I can be surprisingly passive in terms of relationships... I think because they are so feeling-driven. And I know when one ends that it will be a long, long time before I likely find another.

Are you talking about starting up right where you left off, in terms of... I don't know, living like you're a married couple? Resuming your life together? Because I think that might skip over some stuff that needs to get combed out.

Or would you kind of... date for a while and see what happens?? It might take some really deliberate structuring to hold things at a measured pace... I agree with Synamon, I think you should get an objective, skilled 3rd party involved. And the common advice I've heard on that is that if your partner won't go, you should go on your own.

I don't think it will be too hard to avoid the old stuff we got used to with each other. We've been apart for so long now that we're going to have to kind of get to know each other again. And so we are indeed going to try dating for awhile and see where it goes (which will be an adventure, as I've never technically 'dated' anyone).

I think I will search out some counseling and just go myself. It will certainly be good to get a professional opinion and help me on my way. Then it might not be so hard to get him to go later on if we still need it.

sid4wisdom

03-26-2009, 11:40 AM

woof, thats some complication in relationships. due to lack of any experience and insight, i'll just offer you the best wishes for the future.

rara avis

03-26-2009, 11:42 AM

woof, thats some complication in relationships. due to lack of any experience and insight, i'll just offer you the best wishes for the future.

^ Which is really pretty much what I should've said, given my skill level. Oh, well. :)

Feral

03-26-2009, 11:42 AM

Synamon

03-26-2009, 11:50 AM

I don't think it will be too hard to avoid the old stuff we got used to with each other. We've been apart for so long now that we're going to have to kind of get to know each other again. And so we are indeed going to try dating for awhile and see where it goes (which will be an adventure, as I've never technically 'dated' anyone).

I think I will search out some counseling and just go myself. It will certainly be good to get a professional opinion and help me on my way. Then it might not be so hard to get him to go later on if we still need it.
That is a great idea, you don't both have to do the counseling for it to help. The counselor will help you develop some skills and give you some exercises that you can probably talk him into doing too. Maybe he'll realize that it's useful to the process and he'll get on board with it as well.

He's just finished a relationship and so have you, there's no need to rush this, take the time now to get to know each other. That will pay off 20 years from now, keep thinking long term, it will give you perspective. :)

llBradll

03-26-2009, 05:44 PM

Most people just tell me that I'm crazy or stupid and I can do better. I don't deny any of this, as I may be crazy and stupid, but 'better' is a subjective term. I wouldn't say that you're crazy or stupid. You've got a lot of thoughts going through your head and a lot of emotions too. They probably just make you feel that way.

"Better" is something you have to decide for yourself. Somebody elses better shouldn't have any power over your descision.

He's not perfect, but no one is. I can't feel the way I did about him with anyone else, and I have absolutely no desire to try with anyone else. We do have a child together, and we both want to be together for him as well as us. We really did have a great relationship before we allowed ourselves to be pulled apart. If you find yourself being pulled back to him then I think you need to try again with him. I think you both need a second chance.

So he wants to start over, fresh. Which I agree with, and was what I was trying to get him to do all along. But I don't know how to date or any of that crap. My ideas seem generic.

Anyone have any ideas on how to kick-start this properly? Just do what you're comfortable with date wise. If you're back together than you must have enjoyed what you had done before, so I would use that as a starting point for ideas. I wouldn't worry about what you do a whole lot. Its more about the other person than what you happen to be doing.

It sounds like you've got your head straight and you'll be better of this time around. Don't be too hard on yourself either.

dalidaisy

03-26-2009, 05:55 PM

Relax. Breathe. Take it as it comes. Go with your instincts & don't look back. That's all I've got. Good luck...

JustMel

03-26-2009, 06:26 PM

Normally I say never go back but in this case you had a lot of outside influences pulling you apart and neither of you tried hard enough to talk to each other to resist those forces by the "friend". If you'd had a strong relationship and COMMUNICATED with one another the "friend" wouldn't have had a chance in hell at succeeding in his nefarious plot.

Stop thinking about where you go from here. Stop trying to see what will happen and for once smother the INTJ part of you and just BE. Enjoy the time. I think you were scared of the unknown and didn't know how to move on without letting go and letting go scares you too so you didn't really ask yourself if you wanted your husband back because of the way you feel when he's with you---NOT how he "makes" you feel but how you feel when you're with him but because you do care and you made the commitment so now that you have the chance you're not sure it's what you really want.

Sometimes the idea of something makes us want it far more than the reality let's us continue to want it once we obtain it.

Go see a counselor on your own. Figure out what you really want and not what everyone else tells you that you should want or how much better you can do. No one on the outside of a relationship regardless of how close they are to the people in the relationship can really determine how much "better" you can do. The only exception to that is abuse. If you're being abused you can do better if you want to and if you don't no one telling you can is going to help you anway.

Sit down when you're in that mellow place and not thinking overly much about anything and make a couple of lists. On one you put the pros and cons of getting back together. On the other you list the pros and cons of NOT getting back together and moving on with your life in whatever direction you choose. On the last list you put all of the things you want in a mate. Doesn't matter if they're silly, whimsical or serious you list them all. You put the last list away somewhere and don't think about it for 3-6 months. Then you take it out again and put them in order according to non negotiable and something I'd like but can live without. Then you look at your relationship and see if it meets the criteria and the ones it doesn't meet are they things you can give on or are they non negotiables that you're tolerating in hopes of changing him or yourself?

Side story: I made just such a list once. I put it away and found it some years later after I'd been with my husband for almost 2 years. I'd forgotten about the list when I pulled it out of a notebook with some of my other writings. I read it and sat there just staring at the paper with tears running down my face when my husband came in and he said what's wrong? I showed him the list and he sat down and said "when did you write this?" and I told him I'd written it almost ten years before. Out of 43 things on the list the only thing he doesn't do is cook. He will about twice a month something easy like burgers or pizza or grilled cheese and I can live with that. The one that made me laugh was that one of my non negotiables was someone who would play in the rain with me. He always has. No one else I'd ever been with would play in the rain with me.

countrygirl

03-28-2009, 06:08 AM

Sit down when you're in that mellow place and not thinking overly much about anything and make a couple of lists. On one you put the pros and cons of getting back together. On the other you list the pros and cons of NOT getting back together and moving on with your life in whatever direction you choose. On the last list you put all of the things you want in a mate. Doesn't matter if they're silly, whimsical or serious you list them all. You put the last list away somewhere and don't think about it for 3-6 months. Then you take it out again and put them in order according to non negotiable and something I'd like but can live without. Then you look at your relationship and see if it meets the criteria and the ones it doesn't meet are they things you can give on or are they non negotiables that you're tolerating in hopes of changing him or yourself?

Side story: I made just such a list once. I put it away and found it some years later after I'd been with my husband for almost 2 years. I'd forgotten about the list when I pulled it out of a notebook with some of my other writings. I read it and sat there just staring at the paper with tears running down my face when my husband came in and he said what's wrong? I showed him the list and he sat down and said "when did you write this?" and I told him I'd written it almost ten years before. Out of 43 things on the list the only thing he doesn't do is cook. He will about twice a month something easy like burgers or pizza or grilled cheese and I can live with that. The one that made me laugh was that one of my non negotiables was someone who would play in the rain with me. He always has. No one else I'd ever been with would play in the rain with me.

I actually made a list before I found my husband. It benefited me as well because I needed to know who I was to figure out what I wanted in a husband.

My husband matched most of my criteria as well, although I don't think I had 43 things on that list! :cheesy:

reb

03-28-2009, 08:38 AM

Feral,

having had a lot of negative relationship experience, perhaps i can relate things that did not work for me:

1. relationship counselling: i went willingly-in fact, i suggested it. the female counsellor we went to was at a 'women's center'. that shoulda been a tip off. in two sessions, both the woman i was with and the counsellor managed to find they were in agreement...my personality and behaviour was the whole problem. then i found out that the counsellor had her old man 'p whipped', and ran her life AND HIS....i did not get to talk to her hubby. if you go to a counsellor that takes sides, either side, both of you will have to care about each other enough to drop the counsellor, and ignore whatever they have told you. no outside agendas needed from straphangers in a relationship. tools and questioning guidance are needed. if the counsellor takes your side against your hub, and you play along, i guarantee he will resent the hell out of it. put yourself on that side-the counsellor and hub blaming you....by the time i was done with the counsellor, i dint pay the bill, and she acquiesed...i was beyond livid. fact, i would tear her up more so than i did if i saw her again. a counsellor's job is not to advance some feminist or maleist agenda, but to help people seek solutions to make their relationship work.

2. ask yourself 'why do i want to be with anyone?'. your own motivation, beyond the child, is important.

3. i have heard 'to make marriage work, it has to be the MOST important thing in your life'. most is the keyword...anything that is superior that you lock onto, you lose the marriage eventually, either symbolically, or functionally, or 'for real'. jmo, but this appears to be completely true if anything is....my two marriages became 'not worth the effort'...i was not willing to change myself enough to have either situation. looking back, now, i would not even enter into either situation.

JustMel

03-28-2009, 09:55 AM

I actually made a list before I found my husband. It benefited me as well because I needed to know who I was to figure out what I wanted in a husband.

My husband matched most of my criteria as well, although I don't think I had 43 things on that list! :cheesy:

I was a single mom at the time and had previously placed a child for adoption so I had a few more "issues" to deal with than most. :)