With apologies to my Canadian brothers and sisters

[Lucid]

I don't know if you've seen this gem:

Fox News Insults Canada (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)

...but I'd just like to say that I'm very sorry for doubting your claims of the US's disdain for Canadians in the Canada thread.

Actually, the reason I'm posting this here is because I'd love to see some Canadian rebuttals to this guy's craziness and ignorance about Canada.

[Alcestis]

Red Eye is supposed to be a comedy show.

That, however, took it beyond where the last decent person should've stopped laughing.

[LionsPride]

We used to joke about our military's ability too until our troops went to Afghanistan and the casualties started. Now it's not so funny for us. Even less funny is the knowledge that Canada has been holding the dangerous posts for far too long and the other allied forces haven't been willing to rotate us out. No wonder we have to pull out completely to re-equip and re-train.

Our reliance on the US military isn't why we don't have a well stocked military. Years of politicians and Canadian public thinking that putting money into the military is akin to war mongering and that if we have the items we might be inclined to use them caused funding for military equipment to dry up. That's just one of the reasons, there are others, but you can't build a military without funding.

[Mozzes]

Red Eye is supposed to be a comedy show.

They may want to begin by writing in some jokes. It felt more like regular Fox News turned to 11. I dunno...I think it offended my comedic sense more than anything else. The host said it was supposed to be satire. Satire of what? I don't think that word means what he thinks it means.

[Prunesquallor]

Umm....ignorant, arrogant, pathetic...I really was not in the least surprised at anything they said. I sort of figured that's what a lot of yankees thought. (with the occasional intelligent exception, but still...)

[Synamon]

The US is the military superpower, everyone's military pales when compared to theirs. The US spends more on their military (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) than the rest of the world put together. We have 30 million people, the US has 300 million, huge difference. Canada's military focus is different than the US's by choice. Canada has been involved heavily in UN peacekeeping missions in Africa and Europe over the past 20 years, and has other commitments it honors with NATO.

If a hostile nation bordered Canada would we have to spend more on our military? Obviously, but that is not the case, and strategically it is in the US's best interest to keep a hostile country from taking over Canada so the likelihood that anyone would try is incredibly low. So yes, the US on our border is a deterrent. That's the way the countries shook out on the board game of the planet. We lucked out, location wise. Sort of. I could rattle off a list of negatives that come with the deal, but that would be off topic. :p

[Mozzes]

Umm....ignorant, arrogant, pathetic...I really was not in the least surprised at anything they said. I sort of figured that's what a lot of yankees thought. (with the occasional intelligent exception, but still...)

That show airs at 3am and has a viewership of about 300,000 people...

[Prunesquallor]

So what? Are you saying that only the people who watch the show think that Canada has a shit military and we're relying on the big strong U.S. to take care of our pathetic little selves? I've never gotten the impression that this is an unusual attitude.

[LionsPride]

That show airs at 3am and has a viewership of about 300,000 people...

That may be true, but the 'satire' they were attempting came from somewhere. All were common misconceptions that many Americans have. By many, I mean more than 300,000, not many as in the majority of Americans. The issue is that they made it into a comedy routine, a very, very poorly done comedy routine and when the remarks aren't funny they are just insulting instead. It doesn't help that 4 more of our soldiers were killed shortly after the broadcast. With comedy, timing is everything.

[Mozzes]

So what? Are you saying that only the people who watch the show think that Canada has a shit military and we're relying on the big strong U.S. to take care of our pathetic little selves? I've never gotten the impression that this is an unusual attitude.

:laugh:

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This is most objective data I could find. 90% or so of Americans have a favorable view of Canada. Less than 60% of Canadians have a favorable view of America. So, it seems like the vitriol and invectives are primarily flowing in one direction. I can see where one might assume the contrary. If one assumes the Gallup poll is correct and 6% of Americans have an unfavorable view of Canada that is still over 15,000,000 people. That's a lot of people even though it's only a small fraction of our total population. Also, people in general (and I assume Canadians are not exempt from this) tend to focus on and play up negative criticism. Not too mention people who are highly critical of anything tend to be much louder than those who approve of it. It all just seems like a recipe for an easy stereotype. I see it coming the other way. According to public poll data, outside of the middle east America and its policies have an approval rating probably averaging 50% or so. That's a lot of people who disagree with us but there are also a lot of people who do agree with us but all we ever hear about over here are the negatives.

But, hey, if you're more interested in being offended then actually thinking about this then go ahead and keep acting like a victim. Knock yourself out.

[Prunesquallor]

A favourable opinion of Canada, not of our military. Be relevant.

[uncon]

This fool is now receiving death threats (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ry/1419573/story.html).

To Canadians I say touche. Free speech doesn't mean that you won't get death threats when you're insulting others. Personally I hope someone kicks his ass. I mean literally. These types of people really do make the earth a more annoying place to live.

[Mozzes]

A favourable opinion of Canada, not of our military. Be relevant.

The Canadian military isn't part of Canada?

[Prunesquallor]

The Canadian military isn't part of Canada?

Of course it is. But I can, say, like a person, but think that their tendency to miss the point entirely is an irritating habit, for example...
Similarly, people can like a country for, say their left-leaning politics, their reputation of being "nice" and "polite" and charmingly backwards, and having awesome maple syrup, whilst still thinking their military is a bunch of pussies.

[Mozzes]

Of course it is. But I can, say, like a person, but think that their tendency to miss the point entirely is an irritating habit, for example...
Similarly, people can like a country for, say their left-leaning politics, their reputation of being "nice" and "polite" and charmingly backwards, and having awesome maple syrup, whilst still thinking their military is a bunch of pussies.

I'm just waiting for data to back your claims instead of your paranoid delusions of persecution.

Besides, from what I've read it's the socialist polices that most Americans tend to disagree with the most. My experience on this forum, anyways, is that Canadians are hardly nice or polite. And I get my maple syrup from Vermont. So it must be something else.

And I also found this interesting. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Seems like as of 2003 even most Canadians thought "their military is a bunch of pussies". Or something.

[Mozzes]

What is your problem? I really don't understand where you're coming from. You seem to think I'm slandering your beloved country and ohdear Canadians are so critical of Americans - and of course only bigotry and a natural tendency towards criticism could explain this, it's not like there's anything wrong with the great America - and my statement that the general impression that I got about your country was that a lot of people there didn't think much of our military you have elevated into some sort of evil malign slander ohsoterribly cruel and clearly it cannot be true because the U.S.A. is lovely and unfairly treated by Canadians, those jerks.

Relax already.

Ummm...there's a lot wrong with America. First. But that's not the topic. What I'm trying to get to is the root of this idea that it seems like Canadians have that we don't appreciate them. Canada has about 1/10th our population and spends a fraction that we do on defense per capita. I don't think any rational American expects Canada to bear the same military burden that we do in all of this. I think it's a disconnect between how Americans, on average, view Canada and it's military and how Canadians think we view them and their military and it's a view of a view that's been tainted by loud-mouthed idiots. Believe me, we have plenty of those here. We've even made the mistake of electing them to public office. Oh well, anyways, I live in the southern US (probably the most ass backwards place in the first world) and I know it'd be a Herculean task to find someone who says that they don't appreciate the sacrifice of the 115 or so Canadians who have died in the middle east since the so-called war on terror began. You guys are appreciate here more than you think. That's all I'm trying to express.

[RBM]

We used to joke about our military's ability too until our troops went to Afghanistan and the casualties started. Now it's not so funny for us. Even less funny is the knowledge that Canada has been holding the dangerous posts for far too long and the other allied forces haven't been willing to rotate us out. No wonder we have to pull out completely to re-equip and re-train.

Our reliance on the US military isn't why we don't have a well stocked military. Years of politicians and Canadian public thinking that putting money into the military is akin to war mongering and that if we have the items we might be inclined to use them caused funding for military equipment to dry up. That's just one of the reasons, there are others, but you can't build a military without funding.

As a US citizen I had wondered how the lack of military in Canada had come about. I'd say the US is invaluable as a case study on what happens with a standing military :-(

[Prunesquallor]

Ummm...there's a lot wrong with America. First. But that's not the topic. What I'm trying to get to is the root of this idea that it seems like Canadians have that we don't appreciate them. Canada has about 1/10th our population and spends a fraction that we do on defense per capita. I don't think any rational American expects Canada to bear the same military burden that we do in all of this. I think it's a disconnect between how Americans, on average, view Canada and it's military and how Canadians think we view them and their military and it's a view of a view that's been tainted by loud-mouthed idiots. Believe me, we have plenty of those here. We've even made the mistake of electing them to public office. Oh well, anyways, I live in the southern US (probably the most ass backwards place in the first world) and I know it'd be a Herculean task to find someone who says that they don't appreciate the sacrifice of the 115 or so Canadians who have died in the middle east since the so-called war on terror began. You guys are appreciate here more than you think. That's all I'm trying to express.

Ok, so I misread you intention.

Look, I have friends and relatives down there, I've visited plenty of times, and I know there's far too many people in your country to condemn them all as idiots, but realistically - of those people you say would claim to appreciate that sacrifice - how many of them even know we're fighting? With the kind of media you guys are stuck with, you really have to work at finding good information about anything outside your own country, and I don't expect a lot of people to bother. That's not a condemnation, that's just reality, or at least my perception thereof. I was not overly offended by the clip, because to me it was unsurprising, and I think the fact that soldiers died so close to the airing has made a lot of people completely overreact. Basically, I've heard this all before, multiple times - often from Canadians too, though less harsh than that particular clip - that our military is treated as a joke, in general, and by Americans, is just something one comes to expect, living here. I think it's a little ignorant, but hardly the end of the world.

[Valiyn]

What strikes me as fishy about all this is Canadian Tanks requiring a year to get up to date. Now, with the terrian and geography of Canada, an armored corps would not do well in offensive actions on Canadian soil. They can only be a mobile defense to reinforce the defense of a section of the border. Why this would take a year to accomplish isn't sitting well with me. It wouldn't even require taking a break from normal operations.

They could really only make use of them overseas, and to call a break to preform this update to their armor implies some sort of time-table. My best guess is the Canadians will play a role in some sort of upcoming offensive action involving a corp of "lightwieght" tanks.

[Mozzes]

Look, I have friends and relatives down there, I've visited plenty of times, and I know there's far too many people in your country to condemn them all as idiots, but realistically - of those people you say would claim to appreciate that sacrifice - how many of them even know we're fighting? With the kind of media you guys are stuck with, you really have to work at finding good information about anything outside your own country, and I don't expect a lot of people to bother. That's not a condemnation, that's just reality, or at least my perception thereof. I was not overly offended by the clip, because to me it was unsurprising, and I think the fact that soldiers died so close to the airing has made a lot of people completely overreact. Basically, I've heard this all before, multiple times - often from Canadians too, though less harsh than that particular clip - that our military is treated as a joke, in general, and by Americans, is just something one comes to expect, living here. I think it's a little ignorant, but hardly the end of the world.

You're right. I admit that I'm probably overestimating the average American's knowledge regarding non-American involvement in the middle east. Most Americans would be appreciative of other nation's efforts and sacrifices if they were aware. Is this our media's fault? Partially, no doubt. Also, many Americans are idiots with a myopic worldview. Truth is truth. You should see some of the looks I get when I tell people I use Al Jazeera as a news source. You'd think that I'm a terrorist. Unfortunately this is an intractable situation. Our media isn't going to change. The Americans who are wholly ignorant aren't going to suddenly start caring about this stuff and become aware. America's place in the world isn't going to change until it finally collapses on itself like a giant star finally run out of stellar fuel. And Canada isn't going to become a military superpower. So, I guess, no matter what things are going to go on being the same.

[Ted]

Well when I look at the situation, this is what I see: The U.S. is the superpower of the world and Canada shares a border with them. Considering that they are in good terms, I don't see a reason for Canadians to even attempt to build up a competitive military force. Why not let the U.S., who are so eager to fight, do all the fighting and Canadians can just sit back and relax. If you just look at this fact on its own (I know reality isn't this simple), it makes the U.S. look like the Canadians' bitch. Just saying. Plus, I'm sure that Americans will get very paranoid if Canadians start lining up troops on the border, no?

Mozzes, you said: This is most objective data I could find. 90% or so of Americans have a favorable view of Canada.

How would you define "favorable view"? I'm sure many people who are casually and directly interacting with whores, also have a "favorable view" of them. Having a "favorable view" of something doesn't necessarily mean you respect that something.

[jesse]

1) It's Fox, not much else needs to be said about them nor their infamous bad-mouthing of everything.
2) Militaries tend to only reflect current political trends regarding foreign policy and how much intervention and pressure can be applied through militarism.

I see Canada's policy as purely defensive and with a strong focus on international peacekeeping while the US follows an offense-based strategy. Two ongoing wars (whoops! my bad, these are armed conflicts, not wars!) and permanent overseas military bases highlight my views on the matter.

This Red Eye clip is not even funny... They rely on dumbass hosts rehashing deadbeat negative stereotypes of separate yet related cultures. "oh look! we have police officers armed to the teeth and Canada only has mounties on horseback!" Apparently anything goes as long as it fills the time slots during the wee hours.

[eternaltriangle]

Might I first say that this thread has heartened me - it is good to know that the sacrifices made by my fellow Canadians are appreciated outside of ridiculous comedy shows.

I figured I might lend a bit of light on Canada's foreign policy traditions. Canada is not a pacifist country in the tradition as say, postwar Germany and Japan (whose military actions are limited constitutionally). It is not quite true to say that Canada does not have an "offensive" foreign policy.

Canada joined in the Gulf War, Korean war and Afghanistan. We fought in both world wars from the beginning. We fought in the Boer war, and the Sudan as well (and we won the war of 1812!). We have been peacekeepers on a number of front, but have also pushed hard for the adoption of the "responsibility to protect" by the UN. Essentially this would shift the role of the UN from peacekeeping to peacemaking, enabling the sometimes violent action that would be necessary to operate in a Rwanda or Darfur type of situation.

Where our foreign policy differs from the US is in a strong respect for international law. Canadians are okay with military offence, so long as it goes through the "proper" channels. Our Prime Minister's position on Iraq, for instance, was that if there was a UN resolution, Canada would join the fight (due to military exchanges a number of Canadians actually have fought in Iraq). Even without a resolution, Chretien might have sent Canadian troops to Iraq had there not been a Quebec provincial election looming (French Canadians tend to strongly oppose military action. Inflaming such sentiments would likely have led to a separatist victory, and the possibility of another referendum on Quebec's independence).

Canada has led the charge on other fronts as well. In 1935 the Canadians proposed an oil embargo on Italy over its invasion of Ethiopia (Abyssinia). In the 1980's, the Canadians pushed for South Africa's expulsion from the Commonwealth, and the placement of sanctions against S.A. in protest of apartheid. In trade deals, similarly, we have opted for rules. When CUSFTA and NAFTA were being negotiated, Canadians fought hard for a dispute resolution mechanism (in practice it has not been effective).

At times, Canadians have been remarkably scrupulous. For instance, following Vietnam's war of independence in the 1950's, Canada was one of three countries monitoring adherence to the peace between South and North Vietnam (the other countries were India, a non-aligned country, and I think Poland, a Soviet Bloc country). While the other countries towed the line of their preferred superpowers, the Canadians tried (unsuccessfully) to uphold the agreement.

That doesn't mean we are never unscrupulous pursuers of our own national interest. Canada unilaterally declared ownership of large swathes of the Atlantic in order to keep out foreign fishermen, and enforces its ownership of those waters. Canada signed the Kyoto accord, but allowed C02 emissions to rise faster than in the US, and then dropped out of the agreement so they wouldn't have to pay for emission credits. Canada's foreign aid policy is fairly lax as well. On a per capita basis, Canada spends far less than most of Europe, and directs disproportionate aid at French-speaking Africa, in order to prevent any form of recognition for an independent Quebec. Canada is not a perfect international citizen, but doesn't face the kind of scrutiny the US does.

Party differences matter a lot too. Since 1945, there have been two main competing foreign policy philosophies. The first south to increase Canada's influence abroad by being an important player in international institutions like the UN and G-20. This position tends to be that of the Liberal party (though not exclusively). This approach lessens Canada's reliance on the United States, and avoids raising the ire of Quebec separatists. However, the kinds of policies it puts forward are often unsuccessful, and Canada does not always live up to its commitments.

The other tradition is a "continentalist" one, wherein Canada attempts to cooperate strongly with the US, NATO and the G-7, as an alternate means of exerting influence abroad. Brian Mulroney's (Prime Minister from 1984-1993) close ties with Reagan and Bush Sr., for instance, helped in the creation of the Canada-US free trade pact and the Canada-US acid rain treaty. Generally, politicians of this persuasion have been on the right. They often favour more spending on the military as well, because hard power tends to give one more actual leverage.

This graph below shows Canadian spending on the military by year. Our spending has almost doubled since the late 90's. You can also see some of the partisan effect I was talking about (Conservatives were in power from 1984-1993 and 2006-), although the defence buildup started before the Conservatives retook power. At any rate, Canada is on track to raise our military capabilities considerably.

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[dalidaisy]

You know, I really don't think differently of people based on their geographical location or the flag they pledge to (or choose not to). Judging people based on where they happen to be born is just silly to me. I'm a US Citizen (I'm trying not to say American, as I realize that America is made up of more than just the US), but I dislike being lumped in & judged as one of "those Americans" (whether it's positive or negative). So, heck, this is all silly to me. I've never thought of Canadians as any different than me, really. I've heard that they are really nice & seen spoofs about them on South Park. They aren't aliens or anything. They're just people, same as Africans & Australians to me.

Now, it does suck about miliary force around the world & the fact that it is unbalanced. Mocking a country for not having as strong of a military as yours is something a bully would do. I often feel like I'm accidentally on the side of the bully in a lot of situations. I can't help where I'm from. Me, I'm pretty peaceful, so you Canadians can rest easy tonight knowing Dalidaisy won't be invading.

This news report is obviously comedy. It did not entertain me at all. It just made me feel bad about Fox News, not that I didn't already, for airing it.

Sorry Canada. I like your country. I was just there 2 days ago. I will be back. I won't be bringing tanks or a bullet proof vest...

[HackerX]

Note: I haven't watched video because I can't at work.

As an Australian, I would say that we are very similar to Canada in this regard in particular, just on a smaller scale. While we have what is considered a very well trained military, it certainly isn't of any considerable size.

What strikes me as fishy about all this is Canadian Tanks requiring a year to get up to date. Now, with the terrian and geography of Canada, an armored corps would not do well in offensive actions on Canadian soil. They can only be a mobile defense to reinforce the defense of a section of the border. Why this would take a year to accomplish isn't sitting well with me. It wouldn't even require taking a break from normal operations.

They could really only make use of them overseas, and to call a break to preform this update to their armor implies some sort of time-table. My best guess is the Canadians will play a role in some sort of upcoming offensive action involving a corp of "lightwieght" tanks.

This very much reminds me of the Australian Airforce. Over the past decade or so there has been fairly large promotion of the Australian Airforces F-111 (A tatical bomber) fleet. But seriously, what the fuck would does Australia need a bomber for? There has been millions spent buying and upgrading a plane that provides no purpose for a country that has no aggressive/offensive aspirations.

[Synamon]

This very much reminds me of the Australian Airforce. Over the past decade or so there has been fairly large promotion of the Australian Airforces F-111 (A tatical bomber) fleet. But seriously, what the fuck would does Australia need a bomber for? There has been millions spent buying and upgrading a plane that provides no purpose for a country that has no aggressive/offensive aspirations.
:suspicious:

You Australians are planning to attack Canada aren't you?

You'll occupy our country and make us spread vegemite on our toast. :scared: Don't take away my marmalade.

This was an example of inter-country humour that was actually funny. ;)

[John F Kennedy]

I never understood why a huge assemby of people and machines (the military) for killing other people is needed to feel good about oneself (like the "satire" suggests). Canadians maybe aren't that interested in war, and when they are, they do it more judiciously. Americans have the best military in the world and still can't win the war against Irak? Material for a Canadian-based satire show, I'm sure.

[Lucid]

So what? Are you saying that only the people who watch the show think that Canada has a shit military and we're relying on the big strong U.S. to take care of our pathetic little selves? I've never gotten the impression that this is an unusual attitude.

It is to me. I've never gotten the impression that this was anything but an unusual attitude and I was shocked that they said that crap. And yes, I'm an American.

[Thinker]

We Australians are taking over the world by stealth.

Today, an Australian, broadcasts rubbish daily into (just about) every US home.

I am not proud of the fact that Rupert Murdoch, an Australian who chose to take up US citizenship so that his company, News Corp, could own a US television station.

News Corp owns Fox News.

[Synamon]

We Australians are taking over the world by stealth.

Today, an Australian, broadcasts rubbish daily into (just about) every US home.

I am not proud of the fact that Rupert Murdoch, an Australian who chose to take up US citizenship so that his company, News Corp, could own a US television station.

News Corp owns Fox News.

Aha, the facts come out, it's all becoming clear to me now. The Australians are a sneaky bunch, using Fox News to do their reconnaissance of Canada's military might.

[Lucid]

Aha, the facts come out, it's all becoming clear to me now. The Australians are a sneaky bunch, using Fox News to do their reconnaissance of Canada's military might.

Well I bet Canada's military could still take out Fox News.

(... I'll help!)

[Thinker]

I liked this map from the pictures forum.

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I should credit Plane Stress (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) for finding and posting the map.

Australia (I guess) is one of the purple countries.
So...beware of the dragons and cannibals.

[eternaltriangle]

I liked this map from the pictures forum.

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Australia (I guess) is one of the purple countries.
So...beware of the dragons and cannibals.

It is true that cigars are bad for democracy though. You always see bad guys in movies smoking them. Also, I'm from Canada. They think I'm slow, ehhhhhhh.

[Valiyn]

As an Australian, I would say that we are very similar to Canada in this regard in particular, just on a smaller scale. While we have what is considered a very well trained military, it certainly isn't of any considerable size.


The Australian military is very interesting to study. Best riflemen in the world. When you have an advantage like that combined with some nice obstructed terrain, Australia is a formidable fighting force.

As for the Canadian military, I would have to say some of their research and development programs are quite impressive. Not so much now as in the Cold War...i.e. the CF-105 Avro Arrow...but usually much more effective when developing new technology. The Canadians also have a good ranger corps. As such, I think their best goal right now for military improvement would be to advance their helicopter units to specifically be able to take advantage of mountainous terrain.

[Shinqui]

My apologies if this is not entirely on topic, I am unable to view the original link from my office.

Canada has always fielded a small but exceptionally well trained military. We use it mostly for peacekeeping. The idea that this small military is a result of reliance on the United States is foolishness. Canada is a part of the Commonwealth (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.), and has a sterling reputation on the world stage as defenders of their allies. Perhaps some history lessons on battles such as Ypres (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) or Vimy Ridge (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) are in order for those of us who are not old enough to remember.

Canada mobilizes when necessary, the Canadian spirit shines through in times of war as well as times of peace, and we have earned our reputation of the “crazy cannucks”. It would be unwise to think otherwise. We are defenders, not aggressors, and calling any of the current military actions that are originating from the United States anything but nationalist aggression would be foolish.

What is odd here is not the size of Canada’s standing military, rather it is the size of the American military that is strange. It is no secret that the United States did not turn off its war machine at the end of World War Two, and instead used the Cold War as an excuse to create military dominance while the rest of the world tried to rebuild what was destroyed. It is also no secret that this military is used for nationalist goals on a global stage.

I have no animosity towards my American brethren, but one must call things as they see them.

Peace

[Mozzes]

Forget Ypres and Vimy Ridge. I wouldn't expect people to know the distant past if they don't even know the present. Like how the Canadian military assisted in the first Gulf War and how they've periodically deployed to the middle east, Africa, Central and South America and the Caribbean, the Balkans and south east Asia.

Or, for that matter, I wonder how many Americans even know that the Canadian military assisted in the search and rescue of Hurricane Katrina victims in Louisiana.

[eternaltriangle]

This very much reminds me of the Australian Airforce. Over the past decade or so there has been fairly large promotion of the Australian Airforces F-111 (A tatical bomber) fleet. But seriously, what the fuck would does Australia need a bomber for? There has been millions spent buying and upgrading a plane that provides no purpose for a country that has no aggressive/offensive aspirations.

Why are bombers not defensive weapons? Now, if this was a B-52 or something you would have a stronger case - though even strategic bombers are useful as a deterrent. "If you attack us, we will attack you."

Of course you have a much weaker case because this is a tactical bomber. Tactical bombers are designed to strike military targets with precision, rather than say, cities or factories. So, whether Australia was under attack or doing the attacking, tactical bombers would be helpful. There is a reason almost every major air force employs tactical bombers (or fighters that can function like tactical bombers).

Australia does participate in wars - they fought in Vietnam AND Iraq, unlike most of the west. Air support is obviously vital to that. Air power shook Milosevic into pulling out of Kosovo. Air power also destroyed the core of Saddam Hussein's army on the "highway of death" outside of Kuwait city.

At any rate I don't see Australia "promoting" the F-111A. They are slowly retiring the aircraft (not as slowly as the B-52 which they plan to keep around for decades more - this is a plane that was first produced in the 50's).

[LaoTzu]

Far as I have heard, we were going to pull out of Afghanistan anyway. I'm not sure what the 'retooling' part of it is, it's news to me.

As far as our military goes, I've always had a respect for our abilities. We don't NEED a large, massively funded military; because we have no aspirations for empire. We have no protectorates, we have no need to protect 'assets' outside of our borders.

I have no doubt that in event of WWIII, Canada could muster a very large, and well equipped force in a short measure of time. (There's a LAV plant in my town for crying out loud :P )
Justifying a large military in times of peace?? The citizenry is just not interested....
Even with the war on terror, it's more of a police action that's required. Not a full scale war.
We don't derive pride from our ability to project violence either.

Make no mistake; if needed, we can fight with the best of the best of the best.
We have the tools, the technology, the resources, and riteous indignation on our side :P

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just one more thought: I actually support Canadian involvement in Afghanistan. Reason?: Those who serve there will gain the experience necessary to lead, should the worst happen and we DO need that large army in the near future. ;) I'm a pragmatic pacifist ....

[Cocoa]

This reminds me of that comercial we had, when it aired in buffalo it, the americans blew up and complained and it was taken off air. Is it offensive? what do you think?

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[dalidaisy]

This reminds me of that comercial we had, when it aired in buffalo it, the americans blew up and complained and it was taken off air. Is it offensive? what do you think?

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Hehe, I love it!

[Cocoa]

Hehe, I love it!

HEHEHE I wonder tho why did the americans complain. Was it the "best part of north america" ??? LOL I'm confused today.

[dalidaisy]

HEHEHE I wonder tho why did the americans complain. Was it the "best part of north america" ??? LOL I'm confused today.

Yea, maybe because he's making it seem like it's great to be Canadian or something. I mean, how could it be great to be anything but America? The nerve...

[Synamon]

Actually it was probably the word "beaver". The puritans in Buffalo wouldn't have liked it.

[LaoTzu]

Or maybe the "First-Nation of Hockey" reference? Sabers fans would have had a fit :P

[Cocoa]

Actually it was probably the word "beaver". The puritans in Buffalo wouldn't have liked it.

I think beavers are cute. The original lumber jacks and all that :>

I thought it's funny that it was taken off the air because....

Remember southpark the movie? I was a kid then, working in a movie theatre. Whenever that song "blame canada" came onto the screen, everyone was singing it like it's not a big deal LOL

here is "blame canada", if you don't know what that is.
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Good times, good times. :)

[Synamon]

Or maybe the "First-Nation of Hockey" reference? Sabers fans would have had a fit :P
You could be right. How many Stanley cups have the Sabers won? Oh yeah, none. :p

[dalidaisy]

Remember southpark the movie? I was a kid then, working in a movie theatre. Whenever that song "blame canada" came onto the screen, everyone was singing it like it's not a big deal LOL

here is "blame canada", if you don't know what that is.
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Good times, good times. :)

That song is hilarious...

If it makes you feel any better, though, Americans are just a bunch a sheep. I remember in 1997, when Lollapalooza came to TN & Rage Against the Machine was nearing the end of their set. The crowd was going wild. Suddenly, right in the middle of a song, Zach de la Rocha started screaming "Fuck America" over & over. The crowd kept didn't falter & at some point they all started screaming "Fuck America" right along with him. I, seemingly the only person to notice what was going on, turned around to face the crowd (front row, it's the best) & watched in shock/horror as the sheep were herded. Then, I just laughed...

[Cocoa]

Maybe Canada Should go on STRIKE? :)

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Love south park lol

[dalidaisy]

Maybe Canada Should go on STRIKE? :)

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Love south park lol

Hehe, another cute one. You know, I haven't found anything about Canada I don't like. I wonder why Americans dislike you so much. Frankly, until I saw an episode about Canada on South Park, I hadn't thought twice about Canada in my life (oh, except a Canadian quarter I found when I was a kid). It was just another country I had to learn about in Geography.

It's funny, when we were preparing to come to Canada to visit Shinqui, my mom told my daughter, "you have to be careful & lock the doors, there's French up there!" We are so pathetically ignorant of other countries & cultures. Leave it to a Tennessee hick to say something so f*cking brilliant as that. Even my 13-yr-old daughter was like, "HUH?!?!"

[Bregen]

US citizen here. To my Canadian neighbors:

Sorry about that clip. I couldn't get through half of it. Low brow idiots who fashion themselves comedians taking to low brow idiots who fashion themselves world saviors.

I hope you won't hold that one against us for too long.

[LaoTzu]

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Here's a walkin' talkin' stereotype that most Canadians aspire to :)

I'd love for 'Red Eye' to have a 'chat' with Don Cherry :P

[Cocoa]

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Here's a walkin' talkin' stereotype that most Canadians aspire to :)

I'd love for 'Red Eye' to have a 'chat' with Don Cherry :P

I've been in the CBC building in that studio last year!!! Walked around... It's sooo tiny! I wanted to get a glimpse of George Stramboloupolous.... but no luck :(





Cocoa added to this post, 1 minutes and 9 seconds later...

We want... more money. Some of that internet money.

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LOL... hehehehehe :thumbsup:





Cocoa added to this post, 7 minutes and 23 seconds later...


Hehe, another cute one. You know, I haven't found anything about Canada I don't like. I wonder why Americans dislike you so much. Frankly, until I saw an episode about Canada on South Park, I hadn't thought twice about Canada in my life (oh, except a Canadian quarter I found when I was a kid). It was just another country I had to learn about in Geography.

It's funny, when we were preparing to come to Canada to visit Shinqui, my mom told my daughter, "you have to be careful & lock the doors, there's French up there!" We are so pathetically ignorant of other countries & cultures. Leave it to a Tennessee hick to say something so f*cking brilliant as that. Even my 13-yr-old daughter was like, "HUH?!?!"

This reminds me of July 1, 2005. I was In Quebec City that day. It was Canada Day. The Quebecois (French Canadians) had a GIANT protest how they're not part of Canada, burning the Canadian flag and everything....

I had a Canadian flag in my hair, and took photos.

Next to me are American tourists (could tell by accents): a woman and a child. The kid asks "mom, why are they protesting..?" the mother says "oh, it's because they don't want to be part of United States".

Yeah. That is what she said. Despite of the fact that it was an anti-Canada protest with burning Canadian flags and screaming "Le Quebec est un pays!" (Quebec is a country!)

I couldn't believe that some Americans would think it's all about them. As if everything happening in the world was about United states.

*Just a side note: despite the Canadian flag in my hair, and in my friends' hair, we were not harmed, assaulted or insulted which was cool. Someone asked one of us if we're really gonna wear that flag. She said yes, because she is Canadian, and that was it*

[Lucid]

You know, what kind of surprises me is that nobody seemed to pick up on the crack they made in this segment about how Mexicans are the ones who take siestas, seeming (to me at least) to imply that it's usually the Mexicans who are lazy.

I mean if you're going to be bigoted about one group why not be bigoted about them all I guess.

[dalidaisy]

You know, what kind of surprises me is that nobody seemed to pick up on the crack they made in this segment about how Mexicans are the ones who take siestas, seeming (to me at least) to imply that it's usually the Mexicans who are lazy.

I mean if you're going to be bigoted about one group why not be bigoted about them all I guess.

I noticed it. It wasn't surprising, though. I thought this was how most Amricans saw Mexicans (at least the ones that don't cross the border & take jobs no one wants to do & works circles around everyone else without complaining).

Americans seem to have such low opinions of anyone NOT American. It's quite sickening & yet another reason why I find it hard to live here. I will admit that I think part of the problem is that I live in the South & people here seem quite a bit more prejudiced than other places I have visited. My parents are the worst. Luckily I came away from all this with a brain of my own & enough sense to know better.

[countrygirl]

Forget Ypres and Vimy Ridge. I wouldn't expect people to know the distant past if they don't even know the present. Like how the Canadian military assisted in the first Gulf War and how they've periodically deployed to the middle east, Africa, Central and South America and the Caribbean, the Balkans and south east Asia.

Or, for that matter, I wonder how many Americans even know that the Canadian military assisted in the search and rescue of Hurricane Katrina victims in Louisiana.

No, never forget those battles and then some. That is why we have history in school, to understand why we have such a sterling reputation in the world. And to be able to do the things we do as part of the UN, the Commonwealth, etc. and general humanitarian aid.

[jesse]

This reminds me of that comercial we had, when it aired in buffalo it, the americans blew up and complained and it was taken off air. Is it offensive? what do you think?

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:laugh:

Who knew being accurate is so unpopular these days. "I prefer to live in a hallucination-induced fantasy land than in reality! Get rid of this insidious propaganda immediately!"

[schwartzie]

... how many of them even know we're fighting? With the kind of media you guys are stuck with, you really have to work at finding good information about anything outside your own country ....

This is on target. US media is bad and, under intense pressure in the current economic environment, getting worse.
Government policies for the last decade have led to the "press" being treated like other industries in which conventional market forces have been allowed to run, unregulated. The FCC modified it's media concentration rules, e.g. We have lost most of the diversity; it is scary how much media consolidation has occurred in major markets.
"Freedom of the press" is pretty much a meaningless slogan when the singular focus of the "fourth estate" in our mature capitalist country is to generate shareholder revenue.

[Mozzes]

No, never forget those battles and then some. That is why we have history in school, to understand why we have such a sterling reputation in the world. And to be able to do the things we do as part of the UN, the Commonwealth, etc. and general humanitarian aid.

I didn't literally mean "forget them". It's just an expression. Geez.

[eternaltriangle]

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Here's a walkin' talkin' stereotype that most Canadians aspire to :)

I'd love for 'Red Eye' to have a 'chat' with Don Cherry :P

Actually when I watch Coach's Corner, Ron McLean strikes me as being more Canadian. The polite fellow who tries to keep his aggressive co-host from getting too belligerent.

This is a classic Maclean-Cherry disagreement.
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Another classic - even features the late Barbara Frum.
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Hmmm, what MBTI is Don Cherry?
ESTJ?

[countrygirl]

I didn't literally mean "forget them". It's just an expression. Geez.

I blame my 'S' nature! :cheesy:

But there is truth to your statement irregardless. As the old war vets die, those stories will have less significance each passing generation. I just find it sad, that's all.

[Sean O]

This reminds me of July 1, 2005. I was In Quebec City that day. It was Canada Day. The Quebecois (French Canadians) had a GIANT protest how they're not part of Canada, burning the Canadian flag and everything....

I had a Canadian flag in my hair, and took photos.

Next to me are American tourists (could tell by accents): a woman and a child. The kid asks "mom, why are they protesting..?" the mother says "oh, it's because they don't want to be part of United States".

Yeah. That is what she said. Despite of the fact that it was an anti-Canada protest with burning Canadian flags and screaming "Le Quebec est un pays!" (Quebec is a country!)

I couldn't believe that some Americans would think it's all about them. As if everything happening in the world was about United states.

*Just a side note: despite the Canadian flag in my hair, and in my friends' hair, we were not harmed, assaulted or insulted which was cool. Someone asked one of us if we're really gonna wear that flag. She said yes, because she is Canadian, and that was it*I had a similar experience back when I was a teenager and living in Ontario. During one summer, I was working at the CNE in an ice cream stand. One day, a family of three ordered three cones, and the father paid me with an American $20 bill. When I gave him his change, however, he looked at it, quizzically, and then asked me, "What's this?" I wasn't sure what he was puzzled about, so I replied, "It's your change... Oh, maybe I didn't give you the right amount back?" He then said, "No, that's the right amount, but why isn't it in American money?"

I took a couple of seconds to let it register that someone was actually asking me this, and then I explained, "...Because we're in Canada." He then retorted, "But I gave you American money!", and I replied, "Yeah, but that doesn't mean you'll get American in change. When you visit another country, you should expect to have to use their currency." He still wasn't satisfied, and proclaimed, "If I gave you American money, I should get my change in American money, too!"

Finally, his wife chimed in, and said, "Honey, we're in Canada. Even if they accept American money here, they still use their own money, so that's what you'll get as change. It's not a big deal!" The guy then looked back at me, obviously not wanting to give in. I then said to him, "Look, if I had American money to give you as change, I would... but this is Canada, and we use Canadian money here." His wife then said, "Come on, we've got our ice cream, let's just keep going", and pulled him away.

Needless to say, I enjoy telling that story. ;D

As for the Fox news video, I certainly don't like it... but the way I see it, it says more about the people in the video than it does about Canada. Not to mention that any viewers who would actually believe the slanderous remarks made on that show are people whose opinions I would not consider valid.

[LionsPride]

Our soldiers have done a good job over there, but we weren't prepared for a long, hard military conflict in the Middle East. They have been playing catch up since they got there. The Canadian government's habit of buying less then the best (or not enough of the best) equipment is something that is being overturned as a policy, but it's taken too many years to get there. I'm not surprised they needed to time out, in fact, if it wasn't for the soldiers commitment to the good that they are doing down there and unwillingness to give up on it, I'm sure they would have had this break sooner.

When it comes to the video clip from Fox news, the sting is in being mocked for a battle your troops have died in and the knowledge that the only reason they are over there at all was to support the Americans. After the initial fight, the Canadian's stayed to clean up the mess, but they have been on the front line the whole time. The other less involved allied forces haven't been willing to take their turn to relieve the Canadians. I think pulling out for a period might be the only way to get our soldiers the time off the front lines they should have gotten in the form of support from the other nations.


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Canada's stake in the surge debate is easy to see. With 2,500 soldiers on the ground, this country provides a little more than five per cent of the 48,000 foreign troops in Afghanistan. But its disproportionately high casualty rate - 77 dead, including a respected diplomat - has underscored how much more dangerous its mission is than that of other NATO allies, centred as it is in the hot zone of Kandahar province.

EDIT (LP): The tally is now 116 soldiers.

...

Of course, any such move would transform the debate over whether to extend Canada's current mission past February 2009. This may be the paramount issue for the minority Conservative government in 2008, hanging as it does on conflicting reports of progress in Afghanistan, and the Canadian public's dwindling confidence that their troops are making a difference. A U.S. surge would instantly ease those pressures, says Elinor Sloan, a security expert at Carleton University in Ottawa. It would also give the government a difficult choice to make. Should Canada stick to its current mission, knowing it has the support of American firepower? Or should it take advantage of the surge to make a partial exit from the hot zone, and take a badly needed breather?

Sloan favours the latter option. "Even if the U.S. doesn't increase its commitment, I think Canada should draw down its forces - maybe to something like 800 - and then come back with greater strength in a couple of years," she says. That would open a much-needed window for Canada to replenish its ranks with recruits, acquire new equipment and make an even stronger commitment to Afghan reconstruction, Sloan explains. "I strongly believe that Afghanistan is a place where Canada should be. Go right back to square one as to why the terrorists were able to attack on 9/11. [Afghanistan] is a security threat in my view. In some ways it's not politically correct to say any longer that there is a link between the terrorist attacks on the United States and Afghanistan. But you need to stabilize that country, and there's an important humanitarian aspect to doing that. I think it makes a difference for the Canadian forces to be there."


...Still, Canadian soldiers are bound to welcome whatever support happens to come their way. With little in the way of infrastructure and social institutions, stabilizing Afghanistan is clearly a challenge to be measured in years. It's already been five since the U.S. took its eye off the land where the Sept. 11 plot was hatched, and turned its attention on Iraq. At this stage, it hardly seems unreasonable to expect a bit of backup.



As to the Joe Canadian commercial, Canada has always had a bad habit of defining ourselves as being "not-American". I won't lie to you, I loved that commercial when it came out and the line "The beaver is a proud and noble animal" makes me laugh every time. However, by defining ourselves as being "not American" it naturally makes us put down the Americans to make ourselves feel better. Some argue it's deserved, others argue that it's needed because if we didn't other countries would dislike us as much as the Americans. I really don't care what the reason, defining yourself on what you are not doesn't help you find what you should be proud of, just what someone else should be ashamed of.



Actually when I watch Coach's Corner, Ron McLean strikes me as being more Canadian. The polite fellow who tries to keep his aggressive co-host from getting too belligerent.


I watch coach's corner just to see McLean speed up Cherry. Don Cherry on his own just isn't my thing. You're right, McLean has had to sit next to that loud mouth for years and he takes it so well. Not completely innocently though, I love seeing him interrupt Cherry now and again just to make Cherry lose his train of thought. McLean has certainly learned how to be Cherry's handler. LOL!

[LaoTzu]

Actually when I watch Coach's Corner, Ron McLean strikes me as being more Canadian. The polite fellow who tries to keep his aggressive co-host from getting too belligerent.

This is a classic Maclean-Cherry disagreement.
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Another classic - even features the late Barbara Frum.
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Hmmm, what MBTI is Don Cherry?
ESTJ?

Great comment, and so true... Maclean definitely is a better representation.
Articulate, consummately 'nice', always trying to keep the peace so that honest debate continues, a little too straight-laced with a hint of the dark-side to him. He takes a lot of heat from Cherry, but to his credit; always seems to 'prevail' in the end... Were he more controversial, he'd definitely be on every Canuck's list. (without it, he doesn't get honest consideration ;) )


But..I'd still like to see Cherry bite the heads off of the Red-Eye crew :P

[Nemesis]

Don Cherry's MBTI?!... well we may have to add new letters into it. With that in mind, I'll guess X7GC.

We we're in D.C for a conference a few months ago and I was stunned by how much the Americans we chatted with around the city knew about Canada. In fact, 2 Americans sung the entire Canadian anthem for us. Several of them could name all of the provinces as well. By in large, the Americans we met did not meet the stereotype we Canuks have of them.

On the other hand, we were asked if we "have Halloween in Canada"... of course we told them we do, but we call it "the night of scary costumes"... and it's in July... when the snow melts. Of course, we also told them that handing out candy on the night of the scary costumes "cheapens the occasion and ruins the somberness of the whole thing". Also, were able to convince a group of students from George Washington University that we were "snow scientists" from Canada who specialize in "making sure every flake is different". That was amazing. I also sat in on a psych class at George Washington University. After the lecture was done I was chatting with the prof and he mentioned that he had a close colleague at the University of Calgary "which was such a beautiful area, and so close to Toronto". You can imagine how hard I had to bite my lip at that point.

[schwartzie]

you have to click the link to see an enlarged version to read the captions. Canada IS the best.

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[dalidaisy]

you have to click the link to see an enlarged version to read the captions. Canada IS the best.

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This is so true! I could show this to my parents & they would probably agree wholeheartedly. Except for Alaska. In the south, Alaska is like a whole other country. I'd just mark that one "cruis ships go here" as well.

*Canada is uninhabited, haha! Better than doing our laundry , I guess*