T or F

[Hdier]

I'm having problems figuring out if I'm a T or an F. My opinion (read: morals, ethics, etc.) always trumps logic in a situation, but usually I end up using logic and logic comes naturally to me in decision making. Can anyone help me?

Thanks in advance,

BF

[MichaelH]

It's not necessary to be a T or an F. Neither is appropriate to every situation. If you use both to make an informed decision, you have an advantage over those who use either/or.

If I had to choose, I'd say it sounds like you're an F with a very well-developed T, but that's like saying a Zebra is black with white stripes.

[Hdier]

Actually, a zebra is white with black stripes. If you already knew this, then I can understand your metaphor and it makes sense to me. Out of curiosity, why do you say that I'm F with a strong T rather than T with a strong F? I know that I am one or the other, but I'm not sure which. It is a lot harder to be objective when I am figuring out my type than it is when I figure out others type. One of the reasons that I think I might be T is because if I feel distraught I will automatically start analyzing my emotions (though it is halfway subconscious), which seems much more T than F to me.

[MichaelH]

Out of curiosity, why do you say that I'm F with a strong T rather than T with a strong F? I know that I am one or the other, but I'm not sure which.

Again, It's not necessary to be a T or an F. It's a continuum. There's a point where you're not one or the other.

My opinion (read: morals, ethics, etc.) always trumps logic in a situation,

This is why my guess is you might be an F by default. My (simplistic) understanding of MBTI is that it identifies your default, knee-jerk reaction to life. People are free to decide to act contrary to their type; the letter just identify your natural tendency. If your logic is overruled by values when you need to act, it's probable you're a base F with a very strong T.

I do have exceptions to add to that analysis:

1. When people are forced to act quickly, there's no time for logic. As such, quick reactions must either be trained or be emotion-based. I'd argue that for quick responses, EVERYONE is an F.

2. If you're really so close between T and F that you need a fine point on which to split them, it's probably not worthwhile. And for the record, I'm moderately jealous. I'm a strongly expressed T and my F blindness is annoying at times.

Please, someone else post an opinion too, so it doesn't look like I'm picking on Hdier! :)

[Hypomanic]

Okay answer me these questions...

Are you quick to compliment or critique?
Do you like helping friends with their problems?
Are you naturally very empathetic?
In arguments do you usually..
A) fight back with words
B) try to stop the fighting

Also, after living with my INTP/ENTJ family, and then with an ENFJ roommate, I've realized quite a lot about F types (ENFJ is a primary Fe). That and my dad was an ISFP (primary Fi). So another question...

Are you generally laid back, even at home?
Are you easy to live with?
Do you hold things against people when they cross you, or try to ignore it?
Are you somewhat of a people pleaser?
Are you naturally good with kids (a nurturer)?
Do you wear your heart on your sleeve?

[Paul V]

I was in your same situation. I discovered that I'm actually a T with a strong Fi.

I asked myself several questions like this one:

"If the person you love the most has an incurable, contagious disease that will eventually endanger those around him/her (like having been bitten by a zombie, but Ebola works too); would you be with them until the end, regardless of what they might do to you; or would you turn away, because their fate has been sealed, and you dying with them would only make things worse?"

Same question as above, but with the following variable: "And if you had others under your care?" "And if those people were unable to make it without you (such as children, frail or old people)?"

Another one:

"If it was discovered that the person you love the most has an extremely deadly disease, and is basically, a walking timebomb, would you stop others from killing her/him?" (Assuming that this person is already doomed, and by killing them, you are ensuring the wellbeing of humanity)

The final one:

"Would you cause harm to the person you love the most if they were trying to kill you?"

[Hdier]

Okay answer me these questions...

Are you quick to compliment or critique?

Both. I will compliment or critique based off of what they deserve, though I usually make sure to talk about both.

Do you like helping friends with their problems?

Yes, but I refuse to simply give them the answers. I make them figure it out for themselves so that they can help themselves in the future.

Are you naturally very empathetic?

Can you define 'very empathetic', empathy has befuddled me in the past.

In arguments do you usually..
A) fight back with words
B) try to stop the fighting

i assume that you mean shouting matches rather than a debate. I will usually attempt to diffuse the situation, unless I am emotional at the time. Usually it is a problem with my dad and and brother, but other than that I will attempt to stop the conflict. Conflict makes me emotionally distraught.

[qutoe]Are you generally laid back, even at home?[/quote]

I would say about 50% of the time I am, and 50% of the time I'm not.

Are you easy to live with?

It depends. If the person I live with has a volatile temper, then I will to. Otherwise, I'd say yes, I am.

Do you hold things against people when they cross you, or try to ignore it?

I hold things against them for a couple of hours, but I find it hard to keep grudges against people (though if someone does something I consider evil, I will be enraged at them, probably for the rest of my life).

Are you somewhat of a people pleaser?

People pleaser? I have never heard that term before. For what I can infer though (assuming that a 'people pleaser' is someone who pleases . . . people . . .), I would have to say no, simply because I tend to be bullied if I show any hint of emotion...it's funny, but most people don't seem to like people that seem to lack all emotion.

Are you naturally good with kids (a nurturer)?

Don't know, though when I was in the YMCA there was a couple of kids about 7 or 8 years old who practically worshiped me, and I was able to help them a lot.

Do you wear your heart on your sleeve?

Around people I know I do, if I'm upset with them. Around strangers, or around people I love when I'm angry at them, I tend to conceal my emotions.

"If the person you love the most has an incurable, contagious disease that will eventually endanger those around him/her (like having been bitten by a zombie, but Ebola works too); would you be with them until the end, regardless of what they might do to you; or would you turn away, because their fate has been sealed, and you dying with them would only make things worse?"

I would be with them. I wouldn't be able to leave them alone, and I would purchase one of those suits that would protect me.

Same question as above, but with the following variable: "And if you had others under your care?" "And if those people were unable to make it without you (such as children, frail or old people)?"

Same as above, though I wouldn't let them visit even if they wanted to. I would also make arrangements just in case, and if I somehow did catch it I would isolate myself. In fact, apply the 'isolation' to the answer above as well.

Another one:

"If it was discovered that the person you love the most has an extremely deadly disease, and is basically, a walking timebomb, would you stop others from killing her/him?" (Assuming that this person is already doomed, and by killing them, you are ensuring the wellbeing of humanity)

It would pain me, but I would say that it was their decision; I do not deserve to make decisions about other peoples' lives.

The final one:

"Would you cause harm to the person you love the most if they were trying to kill you?"

I would incapacitate them, and bring them to someone to find out what was wrong with them. If it turns out they were tricking me, and they were truly a cruel person, then I would stop loving them.



It sounds like I am F with a strong T, what do you think?

[gabe]

Okay answer me these questions...

Are you quick to compliment or critique?
Do you like helping friends with their problems?
Are you naturally very empathetic?
In arguments do you usually..
A) fight back with words
B) try to stop the fighting

Also, after living with my INTP/ENTJ family, and then with an ENFJ roommate, I've realized quite a lot about F types (ENFJ is a primary Fe). That and my dad was an ISFP (primary Fi). So another question...

Are you generally laid back, even at home?
Are you easy to live with?
Do you hold things against people when they cross you, or try to ignore it?
Are you somewhat of a people pleaser?
Are you naturally good with kids (a nurturer)?
Do you wear your heart on your sleeve?

part B of that A,B question should be "try to stop the fighting... or fight with personal attacks"
"Are you easy to live with"- How in the world is that supposed to be anything about thinking or feeling preferences?
Oh, and any healthy person would 'like helping friends with thier problems'

[Paul V]

I would agree. But some of the questions I asked you have another possibility.

A) If you had to move away from where you are now (imagine if you had children/frail people, and your country was at war), but due to his/her condition, your love would have to stay, what would you do? (Remember that your love will eventually die, possibly soon, and that the people under your care don't have anyone else)

B) And if that person was in a coma and couldn't make that decision themselves, and you're next of kin/only person available to make that choice?

C) If they were better than you at fighting, and you couldn't stand a chance to survive, except dealing heavy damage that might endanger their lives (shooting/stabbing them)?

[Hdier]

I would agree. But some of the questions I asked you have another possibility.

A) If you had to move away from where you are now (imagine if you had children/frail people, and your country was at war), but due to his/her condition, your love would have to stay, what would you do? (Remember that your love will eventually die, possibly soon, and that the people under your care don't have anyone else)

I'd clone myself.

I don't have enough information on the situation in order to make a decision. From the limited information I have, though, I would say that I would say goodbye to the person, and help the people who are alive stay alive.

B) And if that person was in a coma and couldn't make that decision themselves, and you're next of kin/only person available to make that choice?

This is a tough one. I would have to say that, since they are in a coma, they would be isolated, with me and the doctors the only ones allowed in.

C) If they were better than you at fighting, and you couldn't stand a chance to survive, except dealing heavy damage that might endanger their lives (shooting/stabbing them)?

If this were happening, I would have to assume that the person is either being controlled or an impostor, or a fake. Therefore, I would cease loving them, and most likely become enraged with them.

[Paul V]

Congratulations, Hdier, you are an INFJ. How does it feel to have a Terciary Extroverted Thinking function?

[Hdier]

Terciary?

[Paul V]

Hum? Let's see... Ni, Fe, Ti, Se.

Whoops! Sorry!

Not only did I fail with the spelling (it's really Tertiary), but I also failed the order of the functions.

Anyways, how does it feel to have Introverted Thinking on the Tertiary function?

[Hdier]

Um, that's kind of like asking a twin what it's like being a twin. I have no other experiances to compare it to. Though, I have to say that it has helped me at times.

[Paul V]

Lol, you have experiences to compare it to! You used to be an INTX, and now you're an INXJ. There must've been a change in your life that has triggered this, or perhaps you've matured. Either way, it's something.

[Hdier]

I disagree. When I said that I was INTX, that was because I thought that I was INT, and I came to realize that I was J, and that I might not necessarily be T. However, regardless of what I thought I was, I remained the same type throughout the whole time. Does that make sense?

[Paul V]

Makes sense, but tests (which are arguably objective measuring tools) have yielded different results.

You must have answered questions differently, which means a change must have operated in you.

[Hdier]

Mmm, I'd say that it is pretty hard to say that the tests are not objective. However, objectivity does not, by any means, equal accuracy.

I may have answered differently, but is that because I changed, or because different emphasis were placed upon different areas of the T/F scale? I think that I simply didn't know myself well enough.

[thecraig]

The online tests for MBTI may be objective but they are self assesments, and are therefore somewhat inaccurate due to the unavoidable subjectivity of the test taker.

[Hdier]

That is an interesting point, but I meant 'as objective as possible' since you have to be entered in to the equation at some point, which creates subjectiveability.

[Munstead]

Glad to find this thread. I struggle with the designation of F or T.

[Hdier]

Hmmmmm, I think that the biggest thing is that my morals/values/beliefs always trump my logic, which is why I'm an F. If your logic will always (or almost always) trump your morals/values/beliefs, then you are probably a T. That was the biggest indicator for me, though that by itself wouldn't tell me for sure.

[Munstead]

I value my ability for logic and reason and consider my integrity to be one of my best traits -- one I am constantly mindful of. I need the T to be a better F, and vice versa.

I am not a 'just am' person, I am a product of intent.

[Hdier]

I value the same abilities, however I simply am an F with a strong T, which gains the same abilities. However, I often see people talk about F's as if we were some sort of lesser being. Perhaps I'm wrong, as it is harder to read implications on the boards, but that is simply how many people come across.

[quentin]

Hmmmmm, I think that the biggest thing is that my morals/values/beliefs always trump my logic, which is why I'm an F. If your logic will always (or almost always) trump your morals/values/beliefs, then you are probably a T. That was the biggest indicator for me, though that by itself wouldn't tell me for sure.

No. If your ideal of fairness trumps your subjective sympathy, then you are a T. So it's really the opposite of what you're saying - morals/values/beliefs trump human sympathies for T's. T's hold abstract principles above actual human beings.

To take an extreme example, a T is the type of person who would let his son go to prison or even be executed, if he believed that the punishment was justice for the crime his son committed. An F would try to forgive his son and save him from punishment, even if logically the punishment for the crime was deserved.

Myself, I know that I'm definitely a T, because if someone close to me - even it were my father or mother - turned out to be a murderer, child molestor, or rapist, I wouldn't have a moment's hesitation in turning them in. Fairness demands that we all be treated the same. F's are the great nepotists of the world - they don't treat people fairly, but differently on the basis of how much they personally like this or that person. F's are one of the major reasons that people say that life isn't fair.

[Hdier]

No. I'm an F becuase my moral code, which causes subjectivity, would trump logic. You are talking about one aspect of F, subjective sympathy, which I (barely) controll.

First off, I would not allow the death penalty, because I believe in the "with life there is hope'' stuff. Second, I would let him go to prison after forgiving him, becuase I want to help him, and understand that revoking concequences would hurt him. However, if he was a child (under 14), then I would have to reconcider using a harsh punishment, simply becuase he is small and doesn't understand. And I would have a hard time punishing a child.

Again, I must state that you are only talking about one part of F. I would attempt to steer away the person from the path of evil, however I would not be able to allow them to continue to hurt others with their selfish acts. I am subjective by the character of a person, not how much I know them.

For example, if I were a judge deciding if someone should be sued or not, I would be more likely to make them pay if I knew that they had wronged someone in the past, even if I wasn't sure if they were guilty or not this time. However, if I knew that they were a good person, and they simply made a mistake and could see that they were killing themselves for it by themselves, then I would be more apt to let them go, and not make them pay a ridiculous amount of money.





Hdier added to this post, 4 minutes and 36 seconds later...

Or, alternitavely, if there was a pregnant woman on trial I would have a harder time convicting her because she is carrying a baby and I would cause harm to the baby as well.

[Antares]

No. I'm an F becuase my moral code, which causes subjectivity, would trump logic. You are talking about one aspect of F, subjective sympathy, which I (barely) controll.


You look like a mild F to me too. Some other things for you to consider is: Do you take things personally when they shouldn't be? Do you have the tendency to believe that you're always right (when you can't logically justify yourself)? Do you try to avoid criticism because it might hurt your feelings? Do you take them personally as well? Do you read more to things than there actually is? These are some of the things the 'F's in my life tend to do.

[Hdier]

I have deduced that I am an average F, but with a strong T.

You should listen to my dad rant about how much I take things to personally sometime. ;) This generally only happens with familly, though.

I am the avatar of selfrightousness. Though, when I am wrong I admit it (and feel morally superior for admitting I was wrong).

I have not yet met someone who can accurately criticize me beyond what I can criticize on myself, and the rest I ignore with a facade of uncaring. I tend to become angry at myself when I don't get something right quickly enough, and tend to punish myself for it. Is this similar to what you meant?

When I regularly blow up at people I know for being unreasonable and irrational when they have made four or five word sentences, I think I tend to read to much into things, according to others (such as you :)). I still maintain that my subconcious is simply very good at reading body language.

[Paul V]

I have deduced that I am an average F, but with a strong T.

You should listen to my dad rant about how much I take things to personally sometime. ;) This generally only happens with familly, though.

I am the avatar of selfrightousness. Though, when I am wrong I admit it (and feel morally superior for admitting I was wrong).

I have not yet met someone who can accurately criticize me beyond what I can criticize on myself, and the rest I ignore with a facade of uncaring. I tend to become angry at myself when I don't get something right quickly enough, and tend to punish myself for it. Is this similar to what you meant?

When I regularly blow up at people I know for being unreasonable and irrational when they have made four or five word sentences, I think I tend to read to much into things, according to others (such as you :)). I still maintain that my subconcious is simply very good at reading body language.

Well, I'm exactly like you, except on the second and last paragraphs, and I'm still tested as a moderate T. Perhaps self-righteousness is a common trait of NJs instead of NFs? Take my family, for instance. My aunt is an ENTJ, and she's almost as self-righteous as me. My grandmother, however, is an INFP and she avoids conflict like the plague (meaning, she won't even dare to appear self-righteous in case it'll hurt someone's feelings).

[Hdier]

Hmmmmm, interesting theory. It wold make sense, because J's are very decicive and therefore an NJ, who trusts his or her instincts, would be naturally lead to assume he and/or she is right.

[Ilikepepper]

I realise this topic is a little bit old, but I'm here to provide a different point of view. :)

To my understanding, the decisive difference between INFJ and INTJ is the quality of the F or T functions you use. Which one is introverted? Which one is extroverted?

So borrowing from the "fence-building" (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) post by Hypomanic, which of each pair appeals to you more?

Te vs Ti

Te - Is doing this fence cost effective? Will it be useful?

Ti - I want to analyze the structure and placement of the fence.


Fe vs Fi

Fe - How will this fence affect the neighborhood, and what will the neighbors think?

Fi - I want it to be my own special fence that I can share with others over time


If you are an extroverted feeler (Fe, your feelings are expressed by making others feel good or doing what is good for them), then you are INFJ (Ni-Fe-Ti-Se).
If you are an introverted feeler (Fi, your feelings are expressed by being true to your own values and staying internally 'consistent'), then you are INTJ (Ni-Te-Fi-Se).

With Ti and Te, the functions are reversed - INFJs use Ti and INTJs use Te. I'm less cluey on Ti vs Te though, so someone else can provide a summary explanation for them. :)


My guess is that you are an INTJ who is quite balanced on her F/T - but the F you are expressing is Fi... mainly due to your 'moral superiority' quote.

[danalaina]

I'm having problems figuring out if I'm a T or an F. My opinion (read: morals, ethics, etc.) always trumps logic in a situation, but usually I end up using logic and logic comes naturally to me in decision making. Can anyone help me?

Thanks in advance,

BF

if your profile is correct, and you're actually 15, i'd say there's a fair chance this will settle more for you in a few years when your body chemistry settles down some. i'm not saying it'll go one way over the other - just that it'll probably be much more firm.

the chemicals really do jack with us.

[mind_wander]

I do balanced both the T and F side, quiet a bit. If it bothers me alot, then F is used, then my T will kicked in to do something about it.

[deicruxified]

I realise this topic is a little bit old, but I'm here to provide a different point of view. :)

To my understanding, the decisive difference between INFJ and INTJ is the quality of the F or T functions you use. Which one is introverted? Which one is extroverted?

So borrowing from the "fence-building" (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) post by Hypomanic, which of each pair appeals to you more?

Te vs Ti


Fe vs Fi


If you are an extroverted feeler (Fe, your feelings are expressed by making others feel good or doing what is good for them), then you are INFJ (Ni-Fe-Ti-Se).
If you are an introverted feeler (Fi, your feelings are expressed by being true to your own values and staying internally 'consistent'), then you are INTJ (Ni-Te-Fi-Se).

With Ti and Te, the functions are reversed - INFJs use Ti and INTJs use Te. I'm less cluey on Ti vs Te though, so someone else can provide a summary explanation for them. :)


My guess is that you are an INTJ who is quite balanced on her F/T - but the F you are expressing is Fi... mainly due to your 'moral superiority' quote.

a few weeks ago, when i was planning my next charity climb, i had a thought: am i an 'f' or a 't'? and for the record, i would spend lots of time and money (but not to the brink of bankruptcy) so just all my charity plans would push through.

when i do charity, here are my reasons:

1. i got some extra and the people i know have them as well so instead of just letting the junk collect dust, why not give them to the needy? at the same time, it clears some space.
2. it is appropriate... and it is our moral duty to help the less fortunate... common sense tells that if you got LOTS of extra, you don't need most of them.

and i do believe common sense and morality is something inherent and not universal...

judge...

[Hdier]

Why would you think that my profile would lie? At any rate, it didn't and what you have said sounds highly logical, and makes sense, considering contents of my life.

Thank you, ilikepepper, that is an interesting perspective. Anyone who wants to learn more about the cognitive functions (what ilikepepperdescribed) can go to this (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) website that I found. I have found it to be very good.

[Ilikepepper]

when i do charity, here are my reasons:

1. i got some extra and the people i know have them as well so instead of just letting the junk collect dust, why not give them to the needy? at the same time, it clears some space.
2. it is appropriate... and it is our moral duty to help the less fortunate... common sense tells that if you got LOTS of extra, you don't need most of them.

and i do believe common sense and morality is something inherent and not universal...

judge...

Well since you insist... ;)

That sounds like it's based on thinking (I have lots of resources, they have very little) that is connected to inner-feeling (a value - people should give to the needy), as opposed to empathy. The following reasons are more in line with a feeling-based action:

- Those people really need help. I've got all this extra stuff- I know, I'll give it to them because they need it more than I do.
Or simply:
- I want to help the poor. Someone needs to stand up for them! Oh, I happen to have lots of stuff to give away.


if your profile is correct, and you're actually 15, i'd say there's a fair chance this will settle more for you in a few years when your body chemistry settles down some. i'm not saying it'll go one way over the other - just that it'll probably be much more firm.

the chemicals really do jack with us.

Uh... yeah, that too. ;D