Social Security No More?

[Hypomanic]

America went from a two trillion dollars to negative 3 trillion dollars since George W. Bush's presidency. We went through 5 trillion dollars and I don't even have a Ferrari to show for it. Not only that, but this deficit is threatening 2-3 generations ability to have social security. I'm not very happy with that. What do you think about this? What should we do to stop this debt--assuming you want social security when you get older?

[rocksteady]

advances in medical technology could save us, there is some pretty promising research that indicates we can significantly cut medical costs in the next 15-20 years, but it's a long shot to bank on that. A focus on preventative treatment would also go a long way to cutting medical costs. Getting rid of subsidies on corn would also make america healthier. You have to look to the root of the problem in order to solve it, it's not just a money problem.

I think young adults should just be able to opt out of S.S, let them deal with it.

[Hypomanic]

Check out this: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Just wondering, what generation are you? baby boomer's (w), x, or information (y)?

[rocksteady]

Check out this: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Just wondering, what generation are you? baby boomer's (w), x, or information (y)?

haha, thats funny that you send me that site, i've been watching all the videos on it for like a week now...
i am Y, I'm pretty sure, just missed the tail end of X, I'm 25

what exactly do you want me to glean from this video?

[Hypomanic]

Well, for one thing, when you said let the 'young adults' deal with the debt you should have then proposed actual plans for change (as you say you're generation y). Generation x is the generation that has done nothing to solve this debt, so I assumed you were one due to what you said ('let them deal with it'). Leaving someone else to deal with it is messed up.

[anul]

I don't believe in social security and I think America would be better off getting rid of it. America is supposed to be the land of the free, not land of hand outs. All bumper sticker phrases aside. Think about it logically here we all hate the elderly and paying taxes. By getting rid of social security we are essentially hitting two birds with one stone here.

Have you ever been to Canada? They have so many old people and they're all really mean. They have signs everywhere about how they won't tolerate verbal abuse. That's not my American dream.

[Hypomanic]

What about our parents who've been PAYING social security their whole lives and may not get any?

That's messed up, be logical.

[Booko]

America went from a two trillion dollars to negative 3 trillion dollars since George W. Bush's presidency. We went through 5 trillion dollars and I don't even have a Ferrari to show for it. Not only that, but this deficit is threatening 2-3 generations ability to have social security. I'm not very happy with that. What do you think about this? What should we do to stop this debt--assuming you want social security when you get older?

I'm already older -- not enough for SS, but just old enough that it'll likely be at it's lowest ebb by the time I am old enough to draw on it. That'll be before my kids' generation riots in the streets from having to support a younger and an older generation at the same time and someone fixes the mess.

My guess is I'm pretty well screwed, but those of you in your 30s and younger will be just fine. We'll have figured something out by then.

My evil plot is, should the money be insufficient here, I'll move to Bulgaria where at least I can eat all the food without allergic reactions and the dollar goes a lot farther. mwa ha ha





Booko added to this post, 3 minutes and 23 seconds later...

I don't believe in social security and I think America would be better off getting rid of it. America is supposed to be the land of the free, not land of hand outs. All bumper sticker phrases aside. Think about it logically here we all hate the elderly and paying taxes. By getting rid of social security we are essentially hitting two birds with one stone here.

Have you ever been to Canada? They have so many old people and they're all really mean. They have signs everywhere about how they won't tolerate verbal abuse. That's not my American dream.

Yeah, I've been to Canada and would live there any time.

Mean is suggesting that now that I've spent my working life shelling out FICA with the promise I might not be eating cat food in my old age, I should just go stuff it and let you have YOUR money.

[anul]

What about our parents who've been PAYING social security their whole lives and may not get any?

That's messed up, be logical.

Well it's not fair, and they do deserve something for paying into social security. I just don't agree with it, and would rather not pay into social security. Set a cut off date then toss out social security. If people don't want to eat cat food when they retire then they should save, and not trust the government with their well being.

[Booko]

Well it's not fair, and they do deserve something for paying into social security. I just don't agree with it, and would rather not pay into social security. Set a cut off date then toss out social security. If people don't want to eat cat food when they retire then they should save, and not trust the government with their well being.

And history shows that people choose not to max out their 401Ks and SEPTAs and we're still stuck paying for them. At least with SS they have to contribute a share themselves, however flawed the system may be otherwise.

Oh, btw, whoever told you life was fair -- they were lying.

[Danisty]

I don't believe in social security and I think America would be better off getting rid of it. America is supposed to be the land of the free, not land of hand outs. All bumper sticker phrases aside. Think about it logically here we all hate the elderly and paying taxes. By getting rid of social security we are essentially hitting two birds with one stone here.

Have you ever been to Canada? They have so many old people and they're all really mean. They have signs everywhere about how they won't tolerate verbal abuse. That's not my American dream.Speak for yourself. I don't hate the elderly.

[Booko]

Speak for yourself. I don't hate the elderly.

I didn't see any signs about verbal abuse last year when I was in Canada.

And verbal abuse is not my idea of the American dream.

I value freedom, but with great freedom goes responsibility.

Freedom without responsibility is worthy of your average toddler.

I hope our nation can aspire to something more worthy than temper tantrums because we didn't get our way.

[anul]

Oh, btw, whoever told you life was fair -- they were lying.

Exactly. Life isn't fair which is why people shouldn't be taxed more because of other peoples shortcomings.

[Seven]

Have you ever been to Canada? They have so many old people and they're all really mean. They have signs everywhere about how they won't tolerate verbal abuse. That's not my American dream.

I live in Canada and travelled extensively throughout and have never come across a sign regarding non-tolerance of verbal abuse...in any event, no one should tolerate verbal abuse. I can't comment on whether or not Canada has a greater senior population than the US and I sincerely doubt they are all really mean.

I pay taxes in the range of 40% and I am happy to do so. I see it as the cost of living in a country that generally takes care of its people - the young and old. The Canadian government provides many taxpayer funded services (eg. medical care, prescription drugs, housing and financial assistance for the unemployed, financial/language/resettlment assistance to refugees, seniors allowances...just to name few). I don't use the services and hopefully I never will, but it's nice to know it is available for anyone in need. You never know when life will throw you a curve ball.

[anul]

I live in Canada and travelled extensively throughout and have never come across a sign regarding non-tolerance of verbal abuse...in any event, no one should tolerate verbal abuse. I can't comment on whether or not Canada has a greater senior population than the US and I sincerely doubt they are all really mean.

Well maybe it's a Saskatoon thing to have those signs, but I have seen them around Saskatoon in medical waiting rooms. Also once in a sewing store. I realize Saskatoon does not represent Canada as a whole. I just assumed that in medical waiting rooms throughout Canada had those signs. Apparently I was wrong, my bad.


I pay taxes in the range of 40% and I am happy to do so. I see it as the cost of living in a country that generally takes care of its people - the young and old. The Canadian government provides many taxpayer funded services (eg. medical care, prescription drugs, housing and financial assistance for the unemployed, financial/language/resettlment assistance to refugees, seniors allowances...just to name few). I don't use the services and hopefully I never will, but it's nice to know it is available for anyone in need. You never know when life will throw you a curve ball.

I understand Canadians are for the most part happy paying into their social services, and that's fine. The problem is America doesn't have the system Canada has, and I don't want that for America.

I see social security extending peoples lives and I don't want that. There are a lot of stupid people on Earth, and allowing these stupid people to live longer is a mistake.

[rocksteady]

I see social security extending peoples lives and I don't want that. There are a lot of stupid people on Earth, and allowing these stupid people to live longer is a mistake.

thats a bit harsh man! they aren't causing that much damage! I do understand where you are coming from though.

[Booko]

Exactly. Life isn't fair which is why people shouldn't be taxed more because of other peoples shortcomings.

Sorry, I don't view it as a "shortcoming" that I was required to give up a big chunk of my income for years, and for anyone younger to imply I should just sit down and shut up and not get any of that back strikes me as on a par with a toddler fussing and stamping his foot because he wants chocolate just before dinner time.





Booko added to this post, 8 minutes and 2 seconds later...

thats a bit harsh man! they aren't causing that much damage! I do understand where you are coming from though.

It's worse than harsh to imply that lots of stupid people should die because they're stupid.

Who gets to decide who is "stupid"?

Even if they are stupid, why assume a "stupid" person today will be stupid their entire life and that they have nothing to contribute?

The real stupidity, in my view, is refusing to even look at the possibility that people unlike us aren't "stupid" but just "different" and that OMG they might actually have a use in the world in a way that we INTJs are simply not good at and never will be.

Hitler decided that millions of Jews, Poles, Gypsies and gays were "stupid." Taken to its extreme, that's where the attitude of "they're stupid let them die" leads.

Fortunately, I don't see any evidence that it's an INTJ characteristic to lack perspective and any shred of compassion.

That's just a question of maturity and selfishness that hopefully will be remedied at some time in the future.

[anul]

It's worse than harsh to imply that lots of stupid people should die because they're stupid.

Even if they are stupid, why assume a "stupid" person today will be stupid their entire life and that they have nothing to contribute?

The real stupidity, in my view, is refusing to even look at the possibility that people unlike us aren't "stupid" but just "different" and that OMG they might actually have a use in the world in a way that we INTJs are simply not good at and never will be.

Hitler decided that millions of Jews, Poles, Gypsies and gays were "stupid." Taken to its extreme, that's where the attitude of "they're stupid let them die" leads.

Fortunately, I don't see any evidence that it's an INTJ characteristic to lack perspective and any shred of compassion.

That's just a question of maturity and selfishness that hopefully will be remedied at some time in the future.

People shouldn't die just because they are stupid. I'm saying their lives shouldn't be extended because they're stupid. Also how I determine stupid people is not based on MBTI at all, because stupid NT's do exist. So basing peoples intelligence on MBTI would be inaccurate. We need the naturally more inclined types to do lower end jobs. So to kill them on purpose would be silly, because who would do those jobs. I'm saying we shouldn't extend those people lives longer than what is naturally allowed with social service programs.

Sorry, I don't view it as a "shortcoming" that I was required to give up a big chunk of my income for years, and for anyone younger to imply I should just sit down and shut up and not get any of that back strikes me as on a par with a toddler fussing and stamping his foot because he wants chocolate just before dinner time.

It would be a shortcoming that instead of paying into your own savings you paid the government. It's a shortcoming not to save for retirement. If you want to finally sit down and relax and do what retired people do then don't rely on the government. Relying on the government for a paycheck for survival is a shortcoming.


Hitler decided that millions of Jews, Poles, Gypsies and gays were "stupid." Taken to its extreme, that's where the attitude of "they're stupid let them die" leads.


Intelligence is not based on ethnic background. So to make this comparison is dramatic and unfounded. I'm not sure why you correlate ethnicity to intelligence, but I'm not.

[INTJoe]

I'm 28 years old, and I treat SS as a non-factor for my retirement.

I contribute generously to my 401(k) plan, and max out my Roth IRA, and my gf's Roth IRA, and have done so since 2006.

Those who are counting on SS are the suckers. I'll take my retirement into my own hands, thank you very much.

Now I'm not saying SS doesn't need fixing...it does...but I haven't given it much thought as to how to fix it. I'll let those who NEED SS figure it out, while I'm off saving for my own future.

It is a battle to be fought by those being attacked the most.

[Allie]

As I see it, the baby boomers deserve these SS benefits as they have already put in their fair share, especially with the 1980's tax raise, that have since added the surpluses to the funds. Rightfully, the funds should have been more than enough to cover them and everyone who have contributed.

For current and future generations, we should not feel too cheated (trying to find a silver lining here). We're probably enjoying some of the benefits from these SS funds as of today, and will continue to, since part of the funds have been been dipped into to be used for other government programs (possibly for national security, police, fire, highway....maybe not directly, but indirectly as this would free up money elsewhere to be spent on these programs).

If this is not fixed and we end up broke, think of it as taxes for other programs, not retirement, and prepare for your own retirement now. There will be even more burdens as we live longer, yet are not contributing, but are expenses to ourselves and society. So, any part we can do to take care of ourselves is only logical. Take care of our health, continue to work while we still can, and save/save/save.

I will raise hell if they raise taxes for something that is broke. Leave my money alone so I can do my part on my own. Most things the government touches just goes south eventually, and the more they fix it, the worse it gets.

[Vayate]

I'm 20 and assuming that I'm just not going to get social security. It's not a bad thing; the US could use 1.3 trillion dollars elsewhere in the budget, and people should start saving for retirement on their own anyway (I am!). That said, seniors make up a significant amount of the voters, so it's going to be tough to just axe social security. If it's going to happen, we'll need to phase it out over the next 40-70 years so the people voting to end social security will still receive the benefits of it/

[Tsuru]

I'm sure I won't be getting any social security so I don't appreciate tossing 13% of my pay into that big financial abyss.

I'd bet that when the baby boomers retire they might offer a lesser lump-sum payment for them to pull out of the payouts. I don't know how it would be sustainable otherwise given the current trends.

I'm not a fan of the entire concept of social security to begin with, but if people insist it must exist I really think it should have been privatized a long time ago. By putting 50% of the witholdings into an actual interest bearing account under the person's name (untouchable by the grubby fingers of politicians), and the other 50% going for disability or some such thing. Pretty much everyone would be far better off.

[INTJoe]

As I see it, the baby boomers deserve these SS benefits as they have already put in their fair share

One thing the Baby Boomers have NOT done is saved money and looked out for themselves. I believe they were the first generation that really delved into the credit card abyss, and got eaten alive by doing so.

Like Dave Ramsey says...save the way your grandparents and great-grandparents did, don't do what your parents did.

Damn dirty hippies!!!

[rocksteady]

I think a person's social security benefits should go down if their weight goes up. We are going bankrupt trying to save people that eat themselves to death. Rampant Diabetes is directly related to high-fructose corn syrup.

Also, we need to figure out a way to make healthy food cheaper.

The issue of social security wouldn't be half as bad if America wasn't so unhealthy. borderline Third world Asian countries have longer life expectancies than we do!

[INTJoe]

I think you're being a bit too idealistic, but I see where you're headed.

In fact, I just heard some company in Ohio was making their fat employees pay more for their insurance. I think that is terrific. Obviously it can't just be a direct relationship between weight --> cost.

But, if you assume a young, healthy, non-smoker making $40K costs about $5K a year for decent medical benefits, and I suppose a fat, smoking 55 year old probably costs perhaps double that...then I would like to see the following scenario:

Company expenditures = $45K (40K + 5K benefits) for healthy dude.
company expenditures = $45K (35K + 10K benefits) for fat slob.

I don't see a problem with this. For employees in a similar position, the company should compensate each equally. Not just say "You'll both make 40K, but this fat slob here actually costs the company 50K because he's fat and has no will-power."

But I believe the current M.O. is that each earns equal pay, and then whatever the benefits costs...well, that's what they cost.

So there is no incentive for the fat smokers to cause their medical costs to go down.

[rocksteady]

So there is no incentive for the fat smokers to cause their medical costs to go down.

Exactly, create an incentive, and a market based one at that! Hey, look who doesn't need government intervention to combat social problems! wowee!

Obviously there would need to be some guidelines figured out, but it's a more workable system than what we have currently. the more personal accountability, the better.

[INTJoe]

Obviously there would need to be some guidelines figured out, but it's a more workable system than what we have currently. the more personal accountability, the better.

Definitely. The logistical problem, however, is that we as a country (USA) are so far out of control that like 95% of Americans are either a) really fat/high cholesterol/diabetic b) smoke 2 packs a day c) are old.

So...I don't think it's an agenda that the typical American would proactively push. Just us young, healthy folks. It sucks.

I suppose the silver lining is that our life expectancy is like 10-15% longer than a fat, chain-smoking diabetic who works for the city and complains about The Man all day and how they can't get ahead.

Damn. We INTJ's ARE rough! lol. The fact is, though, that if I become a fat, unhealthy slob I would still hold the same opinion.