Breaking up

[NZPixie]

Hi all,

So this is personal, which is the joy of being online lol.

I have to break up with my partner of 2 years (we live together, it is my house, so I can't just move out), but I just don't know how to do it. I have never had to break up with anyone before. Last time I was in an actual relationship I was the one who got dumped. There are some issues with shared debt (that is actually his debt, I have been very stupid in this relationship), but I really need to cut my losses before I lose any more money, or lose my mind.

He is a low-level sociopath. The unfortunate thing is that even though I pretty much hate him right now, and have for a long time, I still love him. And I am afraid that I can't be strong enough because I know he is going to come out with everthing that I want to hear. He might even change for a few months to string me along and get me back in. That is what he did last time when I broke up with him about a year and a half ago.

I really struggle to let go of people who have become close to me. I am afraid that I won't be able to follow through. Everytime I can't follow through I lose respect and credibility.

How do you break up with someone and stay that way? Especially when you still love them?

[elsdfr]

If the breakup isn't mutual and you live together then it's rarely pretty.

If it's the female that gets dumped she usually gets vindictive or ends up on medication and carries the baggage around for another six/twelve months.

If it's the male getting dumped and he is as you say a "low level sociopath" then I'd bunker down somewhere and be prepared to get a restraining order.

But you never know when emotions are involved so perhaps not. You could always try making him hate you but that's never a certainty, good luck.

[alphawolf]

I really struggle to let go of people who have become close to me. I am afraid that I won't be able to follow through. Everytime I can't follow through I lose respect and credibility.

How do you break up with someone and stay that way? Especially when you still love them?


You have difficulty following through because you are needy and have codependency issues. Don't feel stigmatized, though; the majority of people have them to some degree.

Think about why the divorce rate is so freakin' sky high. When people get together for "the wrong reasons", it's more often than not due to neediness and codependency. And also think about the type of people who have been married for 50 years. They simply will not stop living when their partner dies, because they are both strong (as opposed to needy), they are both emotionally self-sufficient, and that's the sole reason why they were able to continue in a relationship for so damned long in the first place. If you both are not able to walk away, regardless of the length of time together and the emotional investment, then you are not able to stay together forever. That's my belief.

Ultimately, what it boils down to is that when you gain emotional maturity, regardless of your age in life, you become strong. If you have neediness and codependency issues, then it would greatly benefit you to remain completely single for a few years and find your inner strength. During this time, you still have needs for emotional intimacy and sex. Find emotional intimacy with your girlfriends, not male friends because this runs counter to recovery. As to sex, well, that is a matter of personal belief. As you have seen in my poll, is sex a need or a want, only 6% of women voted that it is a need. If you don't feel that it's a need, then my advice is to avoid it until you find your inner strength.


Read this:

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[Feral]

Simple enough in theory... if you know you'll be weakened by the thing he is going to start saying, do not give yourself a chance to hear these things.

Particularly if you think he's a low-level sociopath... If you can, bail out now and go somewhere for awhile that he can't contact you. Block all of his emails. Block his profile on any networking site you may be on. Block his phone number. If you have any mutual friends that you'd like to keep in contact with, make sure that they know that you don't want to hear anything he has to say, and you don't have anything you want to say to/about him. Do not let him know where you are.

Give it at least a month before you contact him again. This will be a good time to meditate and reflect on why you're making the right decision, and you won't have his presence to influence your thoughts. By the time you face him again, you'll have more strength to be able to resist him than if you had been listening to his pleas the whole time.

[zibber]

You can talk about strength and assertiveness and following through, but I suspect that part of that is a mechanism to defend oneself against (natural) emotional strain. Bluntly put: there is no easy way to do this, this will always be a messy thing. The most obvious path I see is full disclosure (the "band-aid method"), being painfully honest while respectfully giving him room to get his affairs in order. The worst, worst, worst thing you can do is try to make this as clean break as possible for you without considering what he'll go through. If you love him, at least keep his feelings in mind (and share some of the pain).

I mean, really. "How to End Any Relationship Instantly"? What kind of cold hearted bullshit is that? (And how is a player giving advice about actual romantic relationships?) There are no short-cuts here. You can't spend two years with someone and expect to put that behind you with one fell swoop, without any consequences. There is no magical, residue-free formula. This goes for Feral's advice as well.

In whose eyes do you "lose respect and credibility"? Do you mean his, or other people in your environment?

[MaleVolentworld]

I think you'll always have thoughts of the good times and bad times with him, you just have to remember not to lose sight of the overall picture and succumb to the good thoughts by going back to him. Maybe write down your thoughts of why he is bad for you and why you shouldn't get back to him and then when you feel you need to get back to him just read it.

Obviously you also need to break off completely or else you will be easily tempted to get back together.

Now prepare for a rollercoaster of hating him and loving him for many months to come.

[Feral]

I think you'll always have thoughts of the good times and bad times with him, you just have to remember not to lose sight of the overall picture and succumb to the good thoughts by going back to him. Maybe write down your thoughts of why he is bad for you and why you shouldn't get back to him and then when you feel you need to get back to him just read it.

Obviously you also need to break off completely or else you will be easily tempted to get back together.

Now prepare for a rollercoaster of hating him and loving him for many months to come.

I think this is good advice.

[alphawolf]

I mean, really. "How to End Any Relationship Instantly"? What kind of cold hearted bullshit is that?

Codependency is a weakness. Overcompensation, from the perspective of societal or moral codes, is required to break free. Otherwise, both parties keep pulling each other back in.

I don't view it as cold-hearted at all, because I do not believe that love can exist at all in codependent relationships. They are fueled by the needs of both parties to have someone to depend on, rather than to allow someone to come inside.

[NZPixie]

Well actually I don't know how much I would say it is codependancy. You can love someone without being needy and codependant. You can also love someone who is not very good for you. He gives me pretty much no support at all, especially emotional support. I am probably codependant at the moment because it has gone on for so long but I am not needy. My problem is that I am too self-sufficent so when someone DOES get through to me I like them to stay because I have invested so much time and energy. I know exactly what I have to do logically but emotionally it is a different story.

Actually AlphaWolf I appreciate that you have answered my post but I really don't think you have any idea what you are talking about at all, given the posts I have seen from you. And for me GOOD sex is a need. This is one of the reasons I now am ready to break up, the once brilliant sex has gone to crap. We got together because I was rebounding and needed to have sex, and ended up staying together when I really should not have even gone there. The sex was good but now he is complacent and does not want sex as much as I do. He will not talk about or address any of our issues at all. I have tried,for months I have tried. I am not making this decision lightly.

I mean I lose respect and credibility in his eyes because I keep not following though with my threats. I feel like his mother, having to rage and threaten and have him run rings around me like a naughty 5 year old.

I do not like the person I have become when I am around him. I am a total bitch and it is not who I usually am. I am always angry so I blow up over the smallest things. Which before I almost never did, because anger is usually an emotion I am very comfortable with and in control of.

To be honest the reasons I have not done this a long time ago are a) I wasn't ready and kept believing that he would really change THIS time (major stupidity), and b) Because I feel sorry for him and feel guilty about where he would live, what he would do for money (I support him alot) etc etc. But honestly he has made his own bed. He deserves whatever he gets. And he will go off his tree but I don't think he will get violent.

Maybe I am still not ready to follow through with this but at least logically I truly now believe that I have to get out of this relationship because it is turning me into a crazy insane bitch.

Oh and I have tried the 'make him hate me' thing several times. It does not work. He just will not take the hint.

[JustMel]

Pack his stuff when he is not home and put it outside. Change the locks and be done. When he asks why or tries to engage you if you want to tell him why then do so and if you don't then don't. If you have joint accounts close them and open new ones in your name. Change your cell number if you have to.

Be done. Take your ovaries and push them down and grow a pair of balls and tell him you're done and then turn the emotional switch to off and stay done. Take the way he turns you into an insane bitch and use it against him. If you need to vent then do so with a friend or counselor.

If he is sociopathic then as someone else said be prepared for a restraining order. I have always found a pistol to the face when I opened the door to be more effective than a restraining order but I know how to use a gun and am comfortable with them, not everyone else is as comfortable. If it continues there's usually a detective or someone around who will be happy to have a chat with him.

Don't listen to alpha--once again he's decided he has all the answers in a situation that he isn't involved in. Armchair psychology seems to be his specialty.

[Sequoia]

Pack his stuff when he is not home and put it outside. Change the locks and be done. When he asks why or tries to engage you if you want to tell him why then do so and if you don't then don't. If you have joint accounts close them and open new ones in your name. Change your cell number if you have to.

Be done. Take your ovaries and push them down and grow a pair of balls and tell him you're done and then turn the emotional switch to off and stay done. Take the way he turns you into an insane bitch and use it against him. If you need to vent then do so with a friend or counselor.

If he is sociopathic then as someone else said be prepared for a restraining order. I have always found a pistol to the face when I opened the door to be more effective than a restraining order but I know how to use a gun and am comfortable with them, not everyone else is as comfortable. If it continues there's usually a detective or someone around who will be happy to have a chat with him.

Don't listen to alpha--once again he's decided he has all the answers in a situation that he isn't involved in. Armchair psychology seems to be his specialty.

I totally agree with JustMel. Ultimately, he is responsible for himself and the consequences of his own actions. Do not feel guilty for not rescuing him from them by continuing to support him until you feel he can support himself. He will just continue to use you; it seems that's what he's been doing for some time, if not from the start.

[rain]

I would ask why you are attracted to a sociopath?

Sociopaths have no remorse, compassion or empathy for the people they ruin.

Why are you even attracted to someone like that?

Perhaps, the problem lies within yourself.

[JustMel]

I would ask why you are attracted to a sociopath?

Sociopaths have no remorse, compassion or empathy for the people they ruin.

Why are you even attracted to someone like that?

Perhaps, the problem lies within yourself.

Oh come on. People are attracted to other people all the time when they don't know all aspects of their persona. You don't always know they're a sociopath until after you'r involved. Just like a lot of women don't know the man is an abuser until the first time he beats her ass.

With love and attraction comes the potential to be hurt. You can't always help who you're attracted to and those that say they can are the very ones who don't open themselves up to a full relationship.

It's not as if a sociopath, psychopath, or plain ol' prick wears a sign that says "HI, my name is Bob and I'm a ______" Just like most women don't wear one that says "HI, my name is Suzy and I'm a judgmental wench".

[rara avis]

I agree with zibber, that there really isn't a way to get around the mess. And I agree with JustMel, that there is business to be taken care of.

Would it be possible for you to create a purely rational-minded set of steps to walk you through taking care of the practical matters that get you from A to Z? You could use it as a guide-rope - if you can really commit to following through step-by-step practical points, would it help keep you on a determinate course, through all the emotional stuff that's about to go down?

In particular, I'd say- do as JustMel said, and get your money straight, and do it before you lay it on the line for your soon-to-be ExSO. Get the important practical things safe out of the way, before people get nuts.





rara avis added to this post, 1 minutes and 37 seconds later...



It's not as if a sociopath, psychopath, or plain ol' prick wears a sign that says "HI, my name is Bob and I'm a ______" Just like most women don't wear one that says "HI, my name is Suzy and I'm a judgmental wench".

True. Mine says "HI, my name is Rara..." :laugh:

[alphawolf]

I really struggle to let go of people who have become close to me.

Addictive...

[rara avis]

I would ask why you are attracted to a sociopath?


The point is, she's 2 years invested in trying to make a relationship work with someone she liked at some point, enough to try getting to know and getting along with them. Good for her for trying, and good for her for making the resolution to get out and get done when it's obviously not going to work.

Relationships are generally trial-and-error processes. Not only don't you know everything about a person when you get started, but you don't know everything about yourself in those exact circumstances... until you try them on for size.

Ask your question later, if she repeats a mistake, doesn't like it, and wants to talk about that.

[JustMel]

Addictive...

compassionate, loyal

[alphawolf]

compassionate, loyal


I see how heroin damages, but it feels so good that I can't resist. I hate myself for being it's slave, but I can't resist. I want to be it's slave forever, though I know it will kill me. The pusherman deliberately reduces the potency in order to increase my cravings. Fucking heroin. I need it. I have lost all self respect and dignity; I'll do anything to get another fix. The pusherman promises that he is not deliberately reducing the potency, that he just made an innocent mistake. I'll believe anything, just to get another fix.

Yeah... when your ego craves affection, it is just as powerful as heroin.


The question, though, is that can going cold turkey from the "love drug" kill you? I think it can. Thus, the very real need for emotional support and intimacy from the same sex.

[JustMel]

I see how heroin damages, but it feels so good that I can't resist. I hate myself for being it's slave, but I can't resist. I want to be it's slave forever, though I know it will kill me. The pusherman deliberately reduces the potency in order to increase my cravings. Fucking heroin. I need it. I have lost all self respect and dignity; I'll do anything to get another fix. The pusherman promises that he is not deliberately reducing the potency, that he just made an innocent mistake. I'll believe anything, just to get another fix.

Yeah... when your ego craves affection, it is just as powerful as heroin.


The question, though, is that can going cold turkey from the "love drug" kill you? I think it can. Thus, the very real need for emotional support and intimacy from the same sex.

People do recover from addictions. I know firsthand. Getting into a bad relationship is not the same as being addicted to heroine. Continually getting into a bad relationship is similiar. If you don't have at least one screwed up relationship you don't know how valuable the good ones can be and are. Some people don't like to hurt other's feelings. It's called compassion not being addicted to emotional affection from the person. Just because you don't love them anymore doesn't mean you enjoy ripping their heart out.

Ending a relationship doesn't mean you're going "cold turkey" it means you're ending the relationship and moving on.... Not likely to kill you unless the person you're leaving isn't ready for you to move on but that's another thread.

As for the need for emotional support and intimacy from the same sex: HOW IN THE HELL is that relevant to this conversation? A lot of us don't have same sex relationships/friendships and we're not in danger of dying.

Have you ever had a true relationship? Not just one where you're available for the occasional talk or sex on a regular basis? Seriously, you are so determined to turn every situation into life or death or a trip to a shrink's couch. You want something to be wrong with everyone else so you can pretend there's nothing wrong with you is what I think.

[alphawolf]

You want something to be wrong with everyone else so you can pretend there's nothing wrong with you is what I think.

No. I am just evil. Not literally, but from a philosophical perspective.

I want everyone to be happy. Really.

[Synamon]

I really struggle to let go of people who have become close to me. I am afraid that I won't be able to follow through. Everytime I can't follow through I lose respect and credibility.

How do you break up with someone and stay that way? Especially when you still love them?

Do you have any friends who could support you? There is no reason you have to do this all on your own. Breaking away from a bad relationship is not easy, which means you need someone in your corner. If you don't have any friends or family who could come be with you when you call it quits and back you up, then you need to find a resource in your area that can help you, especially if you are worried how he'll react.

[jesse]

If the relationship is rotten and you've tried everything to fix it without results, there's not really much else to do than call it a day and go your separate ways. WAY easier said than done, I know.

I would much rather keep my sanity than stay in a dysfunctional relationship even if I still loved the SO causes severe discomfort and disharmony all around. If you can't take it any more, swallow your pride, spill the beans as it is and ask the SO to move out and move on. Again, way easier said than done in practical terms and it means you have to make painful decisions.

[LaoTzu]

Pack his stuff when he is not home and put it outside. Change the locks and be done. When he asks why or tries to engage you if you want to tell him why then do so and if you don't then don't. If you have joint accounts close them and open new ones in your name. Change your cell number if you have to.



I agree with this one.... dragging it out will only make things worse.
From what you have said, it's been a discussion in the past, and I don't think the shock will be too much for him.
When it comes up, don't talk about the issues leading up to this decision...that's over and done with. Stick to the task at hand, which is getting him out of the house. I repeat, don't get into a 'why' discussion... just don't.... it will only lead to anger, frustration, and hurt feelings.

If you're somewhat afraid of his reaction, tell him it's all your fault. That you wished you could be what he wanted, but you aren't. Try convincing him of that if it comes to it.... Bullshit him into thinking he's too good for you.
Half of the emotional problems of a break-up come from a feeling of helplessness or anger at being misconstrued, unappreciated, and misunderstood.
Let him know that you really appreciated the good times. Let him know that he isn't a 'loser' in your eyes. Tell him you think he would be so much happier with someone else. Offer suggestions even! :P Most of all....tell him you want to be alone for some time. That will avoid the jealousy problem....


That would all be BS: but that's besides the point.
You want him to accept this above all else. You know the truth of the matter. So do those closest to you.

[NZPixie]

Put all his stuff out when he pushed it too far this morning. Big blowout. Reinforced the fact that I cant be with this person anymore. He wants a week to get his stuff sorted, which I dida agree to which is probably a bad idea but I'm going to have to see him anyway to sort out all the crap that goes with having joined lives. We live on my grandmothers property and she has said that he has to leave regardless of if I change my mind. So i can use that as a fall-back if I have to. Just to get him out of my space.

And I have had very functional relationships in the past thank you very much AlphaWolf, since you are implying that I am some sort of weak female sap that is dependant and addicted to this man.

He is only borderline sociopathic, and when was the last time a sociopath popped up and annouced to the world that he's a sociopath and is going to use you till he's bled you dry? I think he does care, he just does not know how to show it. And that is not my problem anymore. I have been stupid, yes. That does not mean that I am going to continue to be stupid.

[alphawolf]

implying that I am some sort of weak female sap that is dependant and addicted

It was a completely gender neutral implication; can happen to a man or a woman.


But here you go again:

I think he does care, he just does not know how to show it.


This is you making excuses to yourself.

[NZPixie]

Ah no, i am not making excuses. I am observing a human response. I believe that he does care. But that is no longer my problem because he has had long enough to show he cares in a way that would have worked. I never said that was an excuse. I still broke it off with him.

[TheLastMohican]

Congrats on getting it over with, NZPixie.

[Sinequanon]

It was a completely gender neutral implication; can happen to a man or a woman.


But here you go again:




This is you making excuses to yourself.
I have to admit, I am completely at a loss what your continued, relentless attack is supposed to accomplish at this sensitive time in her life?

[Storm]

Even though I don't know you, I'd like to condole you during this difficult time in your life NZPixie.

Good job not going with the "make him hate you" route. It's never pretty and just would have made it more difficult.

[firebee]

I think he does care, he just does not know how to show it.



This is you making excuses to yourself.

And how about we quote the next sentence too, dear?


And that is not my problem anymore. I have been stupid, yes. That does not mean that I am going to continue to be stupid.

You can decline to participate in someone else's shit without having to make them into the human incarnation of all that is not good. This is, in fact, the more healthy position to take -- that you are entitled to look out for your own interests, without having to make the other party into an 'abuser' or a 'vampire' first.

Personally, I am :thumbsup: at the good sense indicated by this statement.

[JustMel]

I've come to the conclusion that alpha is only content when he is either telling someone they or something they did was wrong or acting as if he knows what someone is thinking when they say something. It's almost as if he has a *shudder* god *shudder* complex and is intent upon making everyone else into his image.......

For me personally I just have the urge to roll up a newspaper or magazine and pop him on the nose with it

[Feral]

Put all his stuff out when he pushed it too far this morning. Big blowout. Reinforced the fact that I cant be with this person anymore. He wants a week to get his stuff sorted, which I dida agree to which is probably a bad idea but I'm going to have to see him anyway to sort out all the crap that goes with having joined lives. We live on my grandmothers property and she has said that he has to leave regardless of if I change my mind. So i can use that as a fall-back if I have to. Just to get him out of my space.

And I have had very functional relationships in the past thank you very much AlphaWolf, since you are implying that I am some sort of weak female sap that is dependant and addicted to this man.

He is only borderline sociopathic, and when was the last time a sociopath popped up and annouced to the world that he's a sociopath and is going to use you till he's bled you dry? I think he does care, he just does not know how to show it. And that is not my problem anymore. I have been stupid, yes. That does not mean that I am going to continue to be stupid.

GOOD job. I know how hard that first step is, and it is definitely the very hardest. If you've got the balls to do that, then you've got the balls to follow through. If you don't believe that, keep telling yourself that until you do. Don't let your doubts poison your resolve.

[Jezebel]

And also think about the type of people who have been married for 50 years. They simply will not stop living when their partner dies, because they are both strong (as opposed to needy), they are both emotionally self-sufficient, and that's the sole reason why they were able to continue in a relationship for so damned long in the first place.

Studies have shown widowhood has a negative impact on health and an increase in suicide rates. I'm not sure where you're getting this data that people in successful long term marriages tend to pick up and move on with their life after the death of their spouse as if it was no big deal. I've also had experience with a few deaths of long married couples in my family. Their condition after the death was quite different than what you seem to be implying here.

Prigerson, Maciejewski, and Rosenheck found in their study that people who are widowed had more problems with depression, chronic illnesses, and functional abilities than married individuals. Furthermore, as observed by Parkes, widowed people had more visits to the physician than people who were married, therefore creating an increase in health care costs. Among those widowed, the bereaved that were found to have had a harmonious marriage had higher health care costs than those that did not have harmonious marriages. This study was able to show that the widowed, especially within the first few months and years of widowhood, have certain decreases in health and therefore more health service and higher health costs. . .

The widowed in this study expressed lower life satisfaction than non-bereaved persons. They were also found to be less likely to plan for the future than the non-bereaved. -source (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)

[azelismia]

I would ask why you are attracted to a sociopath?

Sociopaths have no remorse, compassion or empathy for the people they ruin.

Why are you even attracted to someone like that?

Perhaps, the problem lies within yourself.


because sociopaths are charming and can put on a show of all the above when it suits them, they also suit T's very well because they don't make you walk on eggshells (in the beginning anyway) they appear to understand things others don't understand. They don't get insulted when you're just spinning theories around. Not all sociopaths are out there killing people and that sort of thing. it can be far tamer than that. they are very easy to fall for, and they are very convincing in their lies. the ones I've met have also been extremely intelligent so conversation /debating with them is HIGHLY rewarding.

don't try to say "the problem may lie with you" until you've been entangled with one.