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View Full Version : Relationship hole - Should I try to fill it?


gma4567
02-24-2009, 09:11 PM
I was recently in a relationship with a very introverted girl (she would not discuss her feelings with me, and claimed that she didn't have feelings or opinions about what I was doing/how the relationship was going) and this naturally led to a lot of confusion: me being an extrovert, I was looking for some sort of input from her as to how things were going from her perspective as opposed to just thinking about myself. <--This is a big issue for extroverts, and I would say especially ENTPs in particular: we are aware that we can be selfish at times, and so our extroverted need to interact with others comes through as a desire for input from other people (in this case in a relationship, but it can be the same with friendships as well) to make sure we aren't being totally selfish and ignoring them, as we are apt to doing this and want to avoid it if possible.

Anyway, my concern started growing when she began to act withdrawn and depressed around me. It wasn't just the normal "I'm a shy person and would rather go read a book" type of stuff, it would be sitting-in-the-corner-teary-eyed-staring-intensely-at-the-floor type of stuff. When I tried to talk to her/get her to tell me what was going on, she would insist it was nothing and I got the impression that she just wanted me to leave her alone.

I got more and more concerned about this as the relationship went on. When we were alone together she seemed amicable, but when we were at school and around others, she would either be interacting with them happily and IGNORING me, or she would be sitting in the corner, almost literally crying for attention, but then pushing me away as soon as I tried to give it to her.

As an ENTP, I found this baffling, and talked to some professionals about it because I was concerned there might be a component that goes beyond just the norm, and she might actually have some sort of depression or something like that (she satisfied several criteria; odd sleeping hours, > 16 hrs in a row if possible, odd eating habits, indecisive, etc) and I am still convinced that she may have a mild or moderate form of depression that has somehow gone undiagnosed.

One day I confronted her about this, but our conversation was interrupted before I could fully articulate my side of things, and as an ENTP this is something I absolutely hate because we value others' impressions of what we say as well as how we present our statements/arguments. Later I found out that she left under the impression that I broke up with her. Not true in the slightest, and I told her as much.

She then told me "I'm gonna go with 'you broke up with me' because that's what I thought happened..."

This was baffling to me of course, as I was under the impression she wanted to be in the relationship, and given an opportunity to keep it going, why would she refuse?

However, there is another component at work...

My best friend had liked this girl for several years, and being an introvert, never did anything. He asked her out once, but he was so nervous (and she was) that it didn't really seem serious and he only did it because everyone put him up to it. She said no, and ever since then I guess he was just afraid to do it. So three ish years go by, and he still hasn't done anything. He followed her around, did activities just because she did them etc. He, unknowingly, had relegated himself to the 'friend zone' and was acting the part of 'best friend' to this girl, and she saw him now as a friend and not a romantic partner, whereas he was still pursuing a relationship.

Anyway, long story (and I mean really long story) short, I started to like her, and seeing that he wasn't doing anything I asked her out, hoping that he would eventually realize that he had wasted his time as well as everyone else's/hers and that eventually he would get over it. I was wrong.

I started dating her, and he started hating me. I lost my best friend for the sake of the relationship, and what I found out later was that she felt the same way.

The reason she decided to stay with the 'I broke up with her' story was because she found it a convenient way to get him to be friends with her again. He had started talking to her and being nice right after she left after the confrontion we had, both of them under the impression that she was single again. He was obviously interested because he thought he had a shot, and she was interested because she got her friend back, and was willing to make it seem like she was interested in a relationship if it would keep him around.

My primary theory at this point is that during the relationship, all those times that she was depressed, it was because she was missing him as a friend and felt like she couldn't tell me because I would get jealous/wouldn't understand (partially true, but I would never keep her from doing what she wanted in either case...)

So, a few days after she officially told me that I broke up with her, she started dating him. Now I am curious as to whether she genuinely likes him romantically, or if she is just doing this because she thinks it will keep him around, or if she is just after 'A Relationship' and now that he is all that she has, she will take 'whatever she can get' and will date him just because thats what's left.

However, all of this is just background for the real purpose of this thread. We have been broken up for about 2 weeks and I am just about at the end of the 'being sad about it' phase and I'm in the beginning of the 'pick up the pieces and move on' phase. I've found myself actively searching out other potential girlfriends. I feel like I have a hole inside of me and I need to fill it with something as quickly as I can. She was my first girlfriend, and I almost feel like I never want to experience being single ever again, because the sheer joy of being in a relationship and knowing that someone actually WANTED to be with you was a novelty for me, and I really liked the feeling.

The dilemma is this: is it too soon for me to start thinking about another relationship? How do I tell if I am in it just for the sake of being in a relationship vs genuinely liking the person? Also, to what degree is it naturally going to be a compromise between the two? I feel like I shouldn't be 'looking' to replace her, but I also feel like that's the only way you ever get into a relationship is by looking for one/taking a stab when you see an opportunity.

Do other people have this problem of feeling like they are after a relationship not necessarily because they want to be with a specific person, just that they want to be with SOMEONE and that if they happen to mesh particularly well with that person that that is just a bonus? I'm trying to figure out if that feeling is relatively natural or not. I feel like I'll become attached to a person once I get to know them by going out on dates, as opposed to finding the perfect person and THEN asking them out. I'm also wondering if maybe this is enhanced by the fact that I want to make my feelings for her (which I still have) go away, or mask them with feelings for someone else, but I question to what degree those new feelings would be real, and also to what degree the feelings were real the first time around if they can just be so easily masked or replaced.


Some footnotes: We dated for almost 3 months (she broke up with me (and yes that is how I see it, despite her insisting that I broke up with her) 2 days before our 3 month anniversary, which just happened to be valentines day. Needless to say, being an ENTP I had THE PERFECT GIFT picked out and prepared, as well as a bouquet of her favorite flowers. All of it went to waste.

I'm probably on the completely wrong forum for this, and I probably should have brought it to the ENTP one... Most of you INTJs may find the way I think about things/talk about them to be totally odd, IDK maybe not.
This will at least be a glimpse inside the mind of an ENTP as it pertains to relationships.

I will field any and all questions also.

JohnDoe
02-24-2009, 09:28 PM
lots of info.

Let me repeat this:
YOUR BEST FRIEND stopped talking to your girlfriend so that she would feel bad, get depressed, and break up with you. Your best friend is a toxic waste pit who you should tell to screw off.
Edit: I'm not normally one for bros before... but stealing your best friends girlfriend in this manipulative manner is pretty unforgivable in my book, which is a hard standard to reach.

Your ex-gf is an emotional wreck. Yes thats classic depression symptoms. She wanted you to break up with her. If she didn't, she would have been more upset over your alleged break up. Shes emotionally manipulative. Recommend ditching her as a friend.

Sounds like you fell for her a bit hard. This happens for the first GF. Recommend give it a week or two at least; but theres no reason to turn someone down if you get hit on.

Edit: Friends do not get to call dibs on a girl indefinitely without doing anything; the whole dibs thing is pretty lame in the first place, but out of courtesy I won't ask out people who I know my friends are intending to ask out in the immediate future. Months or years is unreasonable. He was being immature and your better off without him.

Edit: I think the painful thing here is also that you lost a good friend in the process; rationalize it by considering that he was never your friend in the first place if he would let this come between you.

Edit: It sounds like she was waiting for something so she could justify breaking up with you to herself. You gave her the reason she needed to make herself feel nonscummy for breaking up with you for your best friend.

gma4567
02-24-2009, 09:37 PM
Most of what you're saying is what others have told me, except you did it a bit more bluntly because you aren't burdened with being friends with the people involved...

YOUR BEST FRIEND stopped talking to your girlfriend so that she would feel bad, get depressed, and break up with you

Not QUITE. He stopped talking to her, partially because he was mad at her and being an INFP he is VERY passive aggressive and non confrontational (the whole reason he never asked her out in the first place) and he just didnt want to/was unable to deal with his feelings toward her. Also he stopped talking to her just because seeing her with me was painful for him, and that was the only time he ever saw her was when I was around. He didn't stop talking to her so that she would get depressed and break up with me, he just stopped talking to her because of his own reasons, and then that happened anyway. No malicious intent, although i'm certain that if he knew what he was doing he would have gladly put in all the malice he could muster.

Shes emotionally manipulative.

I have read/theorize that this is common among depressed people. They are passive, and use the actions and motivations of others to accomplish what they want, but they do it in a blind stupor, almost completely unaware of the fact that they are doing it for themselves, just acting almost 'on impulse' as though they were compelled to do it. For that reason I have a hard time blaming her, but then again, that's been the problem the whole time.

Also, a girl did flirt with me today, or at least I THOUGHT she did, but about halfway through a really entertaining and stimulating conversation I found out that she was also mad at her ex-girlfriend.

I'll let you do the math.

JohnDoe
02-24-2009, 09:39 PM
Most of what you're saying is what others have told me, except you did it a bit more bluntly because you aren't burdened with being friends with the people involved...

Thats my job!


Not QUITE. He stopped talking to her, partially because he was mad at her and being an INFP he is VERY passive aggressive and non confrontational (the whole reason he never asked her out in the first place) and he just didnt want to/was unable to deal with his feelings toward her. Also he stopped talking to her just because seeing her with me was painful for him, and that was the only time he ever saw her was when I was around. He didn't stop talking to her so that she would get depressed and break up with me, he just stopped talking to her because of his own reasons, and then that happened anyway. No malicious intent, although i'm certain that if he knew what he was doing he would have gladly put in all the malice he could muster.

Walking around a wounded INFP is like walking through an armed minefield.

Vagrant
02-24-2009, 10:28 PM
All I have to say is: Wow, what douches.

Seriously. This sounds similar to what my ex did to me. I still hold resentment over it, but I don't care enough any more.

ToC
02-24-2009, 10:29 PM
just get a cat

Vexbeast
02-25-2009, 03:01 AM
I was recently in a relationship with a very introverted girl (she would not discuss her feelings with me, and claimed that she didn't have feelings or opinions about what I was doing/how the relationship was going)

I can relate. It's a terrible thing to feel shut out, when you're just looking to work through any reasons someone might have to shut you out.

No malicious intent, although i'm certain that if he knew what he was doing he would have gladly put in all the malice he could muster.

While I don't believe trying to break away from everyone is a viable answer to relationship problems, to be perfectly fair, if he would've done it purposefully, the point still stands.

I have read/theorize that this is common among depressed people. They are passive, and use the actions and motivations of others to accomplish what they want, but they do it in a blind stupor, almost completely unaware of the fact that they are doing it for themselves, just acting almost 'on impulse' as though they were compelled to do it. For that reason I have a hard time blaming her, but then again, that's been the problem the whole time.

It's a combination of selfishness and denial. People like that will subconsciously work towards having something bad happen to them, in order to justify whatever action they need to take to feel more certain about things which would otherwise be hard to decide between. The selfishness is just a defence mechanism triggered by fear/confusion, but the denial is what stops them from recognising what's happening or who it's hurting, even in hindsight. While denial is also a defence mechanism, it tends to be more of a sleeping dragon than an on/off switch. It's very much a part of their personality, and I don't find any problem with blaming someone for it. (I'm not saying you should, but rather... 'you can if you want to', I guess?)

Also, a girl did flirt with me today, or at least I THOUGHT she did, but about halfway through a really entertaining and stimulating conversation I found out that she was also mad at her ex-girlfriend.

I'll let you do the math.

Did you get her specific preferences, or did you take this as proof she couldn't possibly be bi-sexual? (Would've simply said 'turn her', but prefer not to be affiliated with idiots who treat people's sexuality as a game.)

just get a cat

Any time is a perfect time for facetiousness. :D

zibber
02-25-2009, 04:51 AM
Everything about this seems fucked up and you should feel blessed that you're in the position to break away.

As for the future: dude, chill. You honestly sound desperate and are making elephants out of mosquitos. You had a dysfunctional, ridiculous excuse for a relationship for THREE MONTHS and it's been two weeks since you got dumped. You could rush right into another shitfest, or just hang back, get your mind off of it and calm down.

Tranquillity
02-25-2009, 05:07 AM
Don't do the rebound thing. You'll regret it. Take time out.

Harmony
02-25-2009, 05:17 AM
How old is everyone involved? Sounds like people need to do some growing up. Beings you are asking for advice, I think they need to do more growing up than you. There is nothing wrong with going out with a new girl... You don't have to form a relationship over night. Just go out and have some fun, get to know her, and then after a while decide if it's right or not.

LaoTzu
02-25-2009, 05:19 AM
I find this thread odd... but....here goes:

You're going way overboard here. 3 months is no reason to feel bad.

You should be happy that your friend finally realized the need to just 'go for it'. Were you a good guy, you'd be very happy for them both. (it was 3 months....did I mention?)

In fact, you'd go so far as to give her the Valentines stuff, and say it was from Him.

You should walk away, content that you and she tried. But the reality is they sound made for each other.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say she used you to make him jealous so that he'd make a move.... (probably not...but it works) She grew despondent when she realized that it really didn't work the way intended; and that she didn't have the emotional chops to deal with her new reality appropriately.



Don't throw away good friends over something like this.


3 months.......


you got off light.....

zibber
02-25-2009, 05:33 AM
Oh yeah - can you still get a refund on that gift?

Harmony
02-25-2009, 05:42 AM
In fact, I'd go so far as to say she used you to make him jealous so that he'd make a move.... (probably not...but it works) She grew despondent when she realized that it really didn't work the way intended; and that she didn't have the emotional chops to deal with her new reality appropriately.

Actually... I'd say you were onto something... She hooks up with him to make the one she really wants jealous, so naturally she's not as happy as she wants to be, thus the depression... Makes sense to an extent...

JohnDoe
02-25-2009, 07:02 AM
Actually... I'd say you were onto something... She hooks up with him to make the one she really wants jealous, so naturally she's not as happy as she wants to be, thus the depression... Makes sense to an extent...

Seconding.

WaeV
02-25-2009, 02:42 PM
Hey, I can give some personal input here because I know the two male parties involved.

Gma and Not-gma have been extremely good friends for the past... six years. The girl that they both like is in the same clique - everyone was all friends, and everyone else knew that not-gma liked the girl, including gma. Not-gma found out that Gma shared affections for the girl and got really angry and moody. Gma asked the girl what she thought of the situation and she said that she would go out with either of them if one would just ask. Gma explained his intentions to ask the girl out to Not-gma in a chatroom facilitated by other friends trying to solve the issue. Not-gma said nothing. Gma asked the girl out and began the whole dating thing. Meanwhile, Not-gma stopped talking around Gma and suddenly found all sorts of bad qualities associated that have absolutely "nothing to do with the whole relationship thing".

Three months later, the original post happens. I think that Gma may have said something along the lines of 'I don't want you to be unhappy like this" and she interpreted that as release to be single. There is pretty much zero change of reuiniting now. The idea to have Not-gma give gma's gift to the girl seems like a good peace offering, imo. It's way past v-day though.

JohnDoe
02-25-2009, 02:48 PM
Make a peace offering if you want. You do not need people like this as friends.

WaeV
02-25-2009, 03:28 PM
Like which? Or both?

JohnDoe
02-25-2009, 03:31 PM
Both arn't worth your time. Your one friend screwed you over/wouldn't talk to you over a girl, and the girl used you to get what she wanted. Do either sound like good friends? hell no.

Vexbeast
02-25-2009, 04:49 PM
Details...

See, that's enough to verify the guy is both weak, and a complete ass. Forget him.