Canada?

[Bobert]

Ok. I'm American. Sorry.

Can some Canadians here explain to me what's going on with your country?

Canada is its own country (that used to be under British rule, like so many other places).

But CA still maintains pics of royalty on its currency? Loons, beavers, and moose I understand, but the Queen?

Is CA a democracy or monarchy or other?
-----
BTW, big fan of Corner Gas. We have to get it through Amazon.CA. (It's a conspiracy to keep us separated.)

[BajanMan]

Ok. I'm American. Sorry.

Can some Canadians here explain to me what's going on with your country?

Canada is its own country (that used to be under British rule, like so many other places).

But CA still maintains pics of royalty on its currency? Loons, beavers, and moose I understand, but the Queen?

Is CA a democracy or monarchy or other?
-----
BTW, big fan of Corner Gas. We have to get it through Amazon.CA. (It's a conspiracy to keep us separated.)

The Queen is the Head Of State of Canada.

[Mozzes]

Canada is a parliamentary government and a monarchy though the Queen has no political authority of which I know. Like in England, the throne is primarily symbolic.

[Prunesquallor]

We're a constitutional monarchy.
Or a parliamentary democracy.
Either one's right.
The queen is pretty much irrelevant, except for the fact that her representative kept our jackass of a PM in power. (Her permission is needed to prorogue parliament and the twerp did it to avoid a non-confidence vote)
And, yes she's on the money, but big deal. It's historical.

[Cocoa]

I love the queen :).... yeah basically what the people above said. Because of our historical past, we were once part of Britain (British North America) but once we became our own country, we didn't do it through revolution like you guys, but through legislature, and therefore we still maintain our link to our symbolic Queen.

[BajanMan]

Canada is a parliamentary government and a monarchy though the Queen has no political authority of which I know. Like in England, the throne is primarily symbolic.

That has been a point of ponderance for me for quite some time now. If I am not mistaken, certain countries (don't quote me, because I could be wrong - still need to do extensive research), have clauses in their constitutions that allows the Queen through the office of the Governor General to bar the appointment of a Prime Minister - that is considerable political power in my books.....

[Prunesquallor]

It's not power of no one ever exercises it and it's basically understood that all they are supposed to do is agree and look pretty.

[MaxDandy]

And, yes she's on the money, but big deal. It's historical.

Does this mean that when William finally becomes King, it will be his face on Canadian money?...

[BajanMan]

It's not power of no one ever exercises it and it's basically understood that all they are supposed to do is agree and look pretty.

This power might not have been exercised up until now, but that doesn't mean that it can't or won't be exercised in the future. Which to me sparks another question in my mind - are a lot of these Common Wealth countries really independent?

To MaxDandy - I wouldn't put too much stock in Willie being on anybody's money anytime soon. That woman (Elizabeth) has been around since the dawn of civilization, and I think she's got a few more aeons of life left in her.....;D

[Prunesquallor]

This power might not have been exercised up until now, but that doesn't mean that it can't or won't be exercised in the future.

It pretty much does. There would be an uproar, 'why does that presumptuous old geezer think she can do this? - we need to sever ties yada yada'

There's no way they can enforce this.

[MaxDandy]

To MaxDandy - I wouldn't put too much stock in Willie being on anybody's money anytime soon. That woman (Elizabeth) has been around since the dawn of civilization, and I think she's got a few more aeons of life left in her.....;D


May we all be so lucky...besides I said eventualy...eventualy can be a very long time...

[BajanMan]

It pretty much does. There would be an uproar, 'why does that presumptuous old geezer think she can do this? - we need to sever ties yada yada'

There's no way they can enforce this.

Well, perhaps that would be the case in Canada, but what about some little island like Antigua & Barbuda, or Jamaica, or Saint Lucia? There would be nothing stopping Britain from sending a little fleet down there to restore order....

[Prunesquallor]

Well, perhaps that would be the case in Canada, but what about some little island like Antigua & Barbuda, or Jamaica, or Saint Lucia? There would be nothing stopping Britain from sending a little fleet down there to restore order....

It would of course be the case in Canada.

In that case of smaller places, one has to rely on international and public opinion. This is not, of course, ideal. After all, no one's stopping the U.S.'s colonialistic bent. So, yes, they have to worry a bit more. But probably not much.

[BajanMan]

It would of course be the case in Canada.

In that case of smaller places, one has to rely on international and public opinion. This is not, of course, ideal. After all, no one's stopping the U.S.'s colonialistic bent. So, yes, they have to worry a bit more. But probably not much.

Okay.....

Public opinion? 99% of Britain has probably never heard of some of these afore mentioned places, and probably wouldn't care less about them after know what or where they are. And of course, your politicians would probably throw out some dumb propoganda that the sheeple would eat up like candy.....

[Prunesquallor]

Okay.....

Public opinion? 99% of Britain has probably never heard of some of these afore mentioned places, and probably wouldn't care less about them after know what or where they are. And of course, your politicians would probably throw out some dumb propoganda that the sheeple would eat up like candy.....

My politicians? Am confused.

I did not say that public or international opinion would be a saviour. I said some smaller places might consider being cautious.

What else do you need? A throne, a crown, o all-knowing one?

[BajanMan]

My politicians? Am confused.

I did not say that public or international opinion would be a saviour. I said some smaller places might consider being cautious.

What else do you need? A throne, a crown, o all-knowing one?

No, sorry - I didn't mean to say your politicians as in Canada. Don't know nothing about politicians in Canada (except for Constance Fogal), and I haven't even been there in almost 19 years.....

I had gotten your point though.....

[Rudy]

The queen is pretty much irrelevant, except for the fact that her representative kept our jackass of a PM in power. (Her permission is needed to prorogue parliament and the twerp did it to avoid a non-confidence vote)

That seems pretty relevant to me.

[Prunesquallor]

That seems pretty relevant to me.

Yeah, everyone was furious. Well, everyone who knows anything about how politics works, which is, unfortunately a small number of people. And, unfortunately, the PM has really, really good PR, despite the fact that he looks like he eats babies (read: he's a liar).

It's easier to get away with stuff you're technically not supposed to do if nobody pays attention since The Simpsons is more interesting than Canadian politics.

[thod]

Lets face it, 'Her Majesties Colony of the Virginias' is the only part of the civilized world that doesn't have her head on its coins. Unruly bunch of ungrateful colonials, comes from too much interbreeding with buffalo. Once they realize they are incapable of ruling themselves they shall return to the light of the empire. If they don't like it, they can go live in France.

[Rudy]

Heh. We whooped their ass once, we'll do it again if we need to ;)

[MaxDandy]

Yes but what of Her Majesties Colony of New England...or her Majesties Colony of Georgia...does she really wan't them back?

[BajanMan]

Lets face it, 'Her Majesties Colony of the Virginias' is the only part of the civilized world that doesn't have her head on its coins. Unruly bunch of ungrateful colonials, comes from too much interbreeding with buffalo. Once they realize they are incapable of ruling themselves they shall return to the light of the empire. If they don't like it, they can go live in France.

Oookay.....

And maybe we all can watch cricket instead of baseball (I actually like cricket), and eat fish & chips happily ever after.....<sarcasm>

[LionsPride]

The governor general has symbolic power not actual power. And the GG is appointed by the Canadian Parliament not the Queen. The GG is the Queen's figurehead, but essentially it's a Canadian position.

As to their powers, aside from the ribbon cutting and such, it's more like bureaucratic consistency. For instance, when all the parties have gone through an election, the GG declares the party (or coalition) of majority "in power". This is where the symbolic vs actual power comes into place. While the GG declares the party which takes power, they can't arbirtarily pick one. Kind of like Vana White on Wheel of fortune. It's true she could flip whatever letters she wants to, seeing that it's her hands that do it, but she does exactly as she is told to and always will. Doing otherwise would just be a miss-game.

As to proroguing parliament and the like, particularly with the recent events of the coalition, she does have some power, but she has to work within the confines of what is best for the public and the current government. Generally it's a no brainer, but in this case there was ambiguity which made the choice not so clear cut. She took the traditional standard of upholding the government, at least for the time being. Sticking with wheel of fortune, Vana has to flip the lighted letters, but she can do it in the order she pleases, but standard says Left to Right or Right to Left. Anything else would make the participants/show/viewers annoyed and land her jobless. Now if she was standing in the middle at the time the letters lit, she has more options, but I wouldn't say there is power there. She picks what is most efficient (or at least she is expected to).

Why do we have a GG if we don't need one? Same reason Wheel of Fortune keeps Vana. Ratings, tradition and because Pat Sayjack is nothing special to look at.

[RichardCMongler]

We'll bring you wank scoundrels to The Throne in due time!... in due time!

[MaxDandy]

We'll bring you wank scoundrels to The Throne in due time!... in due time!

Have you been to Georgia? Trust me you don't want it back...no seriously...you doun't want it back.

[ElstonGunn]

We're a constitutional monarchy.
Or a parliamentary democracy.

Is its official name still "The Dominion of Canada," or did you finally stop calling yourselves that? What does that mean exactly? Was it just the thing about keeping the Queen around because you hosers were too polite to ask if she maybe wouldn't mind leaving if that was okay with her? Or did you just never get around to kicking the limeys out because you got distracted by the start of hockey season? Know what I'm talking aboot, eh?

[Prunesquallor]

Is its official name still "The Dominion of Canada," or did you finally stop calling yourselves that? What does that mean exactly? Was it just the thing about keeping the Queen around because you hosers were too polite to ask if she maybe wouldn't mind leaving if that was okay with her? Or did you just never get around to kicking the limeys out because you got distracted by the start of hockey season? Know what I'm talking aboot, eh?

Is this a genuine request for information, or are you just trying to be funny?

[Synamon]

Elston is trying, very trying. It's just Canada, the title Dominion went the way of the dodo bird years ago.

We mostly keep the Queen around to annoy you Americans, seems to be working. Nah nah, we have a Queen and you don't. :p

[ElstonGunn]

Elston is trying, very trying. It's just Canada, the title Dominion went the way of the dodo bird years ago.

Yeah, I should probably look these things up before asking. But then again, it's Canada, so I don't care. Thanks for the compliment, though


We mostly keep the Queen around to annoy you Americans, seems to be working. Nah nah, we have a Queen and you don't. :p

Yeah, I wish I could pay taxes to support a semi-foreign leader who symbolizes centuries of class subjugation and my own social inferiority.

[thod]

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[Rudy]

We mostly keep the Queen around to annoy you Americans, seems to be working. Nah nah, we have a Queen and you don't. :p

*shudder* Ugh. The capacity of human beings for leader worship never fails to disturb me... Why would anyone want a Queen? I'm bothered by the fact that even a President is somewhat necessary for practical reasons...

[Perf]

Yeah, I wish I could pay taxes to support a semi-foreign leader who symbolizes centuries of class subjugation and my own social inferiority.
Kind of sounds like what Americans do for Iraq.

[Synamon]

Yeah, I wish I could pay taxes to support a semi-foreign leader who symbolizes centuries of class subjugation and my own social inferiority.

*shudder* Ugh. The capacity of human beings for leader worship never fails to disturb me... Why would anyone want a Queen? I'm bothered by the fact that even a President is somewhat necessary for practical reasons...
Did you see the :p smiley? I was KIDDING. Oh well, the annoying thing seems to be working.

The sovereign only draws from Canadian coffers for support in the performance of her duties when in Canada or acting as Queen of Canada abroad; Canadians do not pay any money to the Queen, either towards personal income or to support royal residences outside of Canada.
We do pay for the Governor General, but we pay for the Senate which does practically nothing too so no biggie.

[Rudy]

Did you see the :p smiley? I was KIDDING. Oh well, the annoying thing seems to be working.

*nods* I suspected you were kidding, but my point stands. There are a large number of people, more so in England, but some in Canada too, that like the idea of monarchy.

[b00mBo0m08]

The Governor-General, as the Queens representative, has more power than anyone in Canada. She gives final assent to any bill put through parliament, she is there to uphold the constitution. She also has the power, as the commander, to call on the "army" to bring back social order. Despite holding this power, Canada is not a dictatorship and as an elected parliament, the queen's representative takes the reccomendations of parliament, through the Prime Minister, as the will of the people.
The governor-general actually has many of the same powers as the president of the US. Maobama!

[BajanMan]

Did you see the :p smiley? I was KIDDING. Oh well, the annoying thing seems to be working.


We do pay for the Governor General, but we pay for the Senate which does practically nothing too so no biggie.

Which is what I've been pondering over - what is the point of paying this guy (or in Canada's case a Haitian lady) to just sit there and look pretty? I'm sure that there would be more deeper reasons than just ceremonial purposes.....

[b00mBo0m08]

I'm sure that there would be more deeper reasons than just ceremonial purposes.....

Conspiracy Theory?

[Perf]

Us Canadians often have a problem with identity: we tend to define ourselves not by what we are, but what we aren't. Not surprisingly, we're more than happy to point out we aren't American. Not that we hate Americans, but the term "American" brings with it some baggage that we don't want to be associated.

What is Canadian style?
How would you describe Canadian cooking?
What is Canadian culture?

Not easy questions to answer. Whole forests have disappeared to provide the paper for the books that will forever be collecting dust - just to answer this last question. So, when we do find things that identify us - hockey, funny money, eh?, french people (yes, some of us even like our french population), and the monarchy, we tend to hold on to it.

[BajanMan]

Conspiracy Theory?

I have my own theory - yes. But I need to do more research.....

[b00mBo0m08]

I have my own theory - yes. But I need to do more research.....

Yes! I love them. I look forward to seeing it once it's complete. :D

[Synamon]

*shudder* Ugh. The capacity of human beings for leader worship never fails to disturb me... Why would anyone want a Queen? I'm bothered by the fact that even a President is somewhat necessary for practical reasons...
If we got rid of the Queen (and GG) then we would need a President or something else to maintain the parliamentary democracy structure since it requires both a head of government and a head of state for it's checks and balances. Lots of countries have this structure, it is a bit different from the US's presidential system, but it works just fine.

[OneHertz]

Basically communism over here. I hear my father frequently say (who was born in the 1960s in the USSR) that Canada right now is more communistic than USSR was during those times.

[LionsPride]

Basically communism over here. I hear my father frequently say (who was born in the 1960s in the USSR) that Canada right now is more communistic than USSR was during those times.

I'd consider that an exaggeration. We aren't even as socialist as other countries let alone comparable to the USSR, unless you are talking about the weather.

Some people who lived behind the iron curtain do look back on the days of communism with fondness, considering that capitalism hasn't been the party that was promised, but I still wouldn't claim that a rose tinted version of the USSR was less communistic than Canada.

[Bobert]

Woohoo! My plan to create a popular thread is successful! :laugh:

Thanks for the entertaining info & perspectives. My sister-in-law (poli-/sci grad at Georgetown) couldn't give me an answer w/o confusing me.

Like I've said before, I like a lot aboot Canada, except the ones that hate me just because I'm American (I'd much prefer it if they knew I was INTJ first).
Funny money, loons & loonies, moose, porcupines, and giant crows that'll win a game of chicken with a car... give me a plate of fries with gravy and a boat to fish in, and I'm fine.

[Synamon]

Woohoo! My plan to create a popular thread is successful! :laugh:

Thanks for the entertaining info & perspectives. My sister-in-law (poli-/sci grad at Georgetown) couldn't give me an answer w/o confusing me.

Like I've said before, I like a lot aboot Canada, except the ones that hate me just because I'm American (I'd much prefer it if they knew I was INFJ first).
Funny money, loons & loonies, moose, porcupines, and giant crows that'll win a game of chicken with a car... give me a plate of fries with gravy and a boat to fish in, and I'm fine.
You forgot to mention beer. INFJ? Not what it says on your type thingie under your name.

I don't think most Americans understand their own government's system, not surprising they don't understand ours.

Someone earlier asked if we will get William on our money if he becomes King (although it's likely to be Charles first). Probably. King George was on coins early in the 20th century.

[LaoTzu]

Is CA a democracy or monarchy or other?


Officially, We are a 'Constitutional Monarchy'

Unlike our impetuous neighbours... we simply developed our country independently, taking good policy from the Brits; and smiling and nodding at bad policy. It's also the reason we joined WWI and WWII years before... we have a connection with Britain still to this day, but really, they're just as foreign to us as they are to people in the USA.

I'm quite proud of the fact that we didn't have to fight a Revolutionary war to get what we wanted ;) In the looking glass of history, the USA fought and gained what that we haven't gained without fighting? :/

The Queen is a figurehead really. And of no use to most people here, but there remain certain formalities that are truly meaningless but required.

The Monarchy hasn't exerted any power in Canada for a very long time...and would be mocked if it tried.

(I suspect it's the same for Australia)



As for 'Canadian Identity'... I've taken the 'defining ourselves by what we are not' thought to another level...

We are the mirror image of the world's soul. :)

[Mozzes]

Well aren't you Canadians a superior bunch... :p

[Bobert]

Officially, We are a 'Constitutional Monarchy'

Unlike our impetuous neighbours... we simply developed our country independently, taking good policy from the Brits; and smiling and nodding at bad policy. It's also the reason we joined WWI and WWII years before... we have a connection with Britain still to this day, but really, they're just as foreign to us as they are to people in the USA.

I'm quite proud of the fact that we didn't have to fight a Revolutionary war to get what we wanted ;) In the looking glass of history, the USA fought and gained what that we haven't gained without fighting? :/

(I suspect it's the same for Australia)

As for 'Canadian Identity'... I've taken the 'defining ourselves by what we are not' thought to another level...


LaoTzu, the personal rancor reflected in that remark I don't intend to dignify with comment.





Bobert added to this post, 3 minutes and 54 seconds later...

You forgot to mention beer. INFJ? Not what it says on your type thingie under your name.


I don't like beer. I can visualize everyone shock at this comment, I get it all the time. I like wine.

INFJ was a TYPO. I'll fix that in a moment. We dyslexics can have speeling/grammatical & verbal errors often, esp. when we're tired.

[rewhu]

Dear Canadians,

how are you all getting along with Quebec? Are there still rumblings of it becoming it's own country?

Also, I loved Bob and Doug McKenzie. What have they been up to lately?

Signed,
curioUS

[Released]

ooohhh a political thread about Canada. how timely.

A few thoughts:
It's true that the GG's power is largely ceremonial but it's nonetheless a great deal of power. Our system has evolved with a lot of shifts in convention -- to mean what is legally and popularly legitimate. So while decision-making used to reside in the Monarch's rep on the advice of the Prime Minister, today decision-making resides in the PM, though laws only come into force when approved the Monarch's rep. In other words, we've made changes in practice but haven't changed the rules.

Why is that? I think most of it lies with geography. We evolved from a British Parliamentary System, and so did the US, but the US took a much different route. Now as a small country, how can we best maintain our independence? By balancing a fine line between our European (read British) roots and our North American location. Our prosperity will always like in our relationship with the US but we don't want to be American. Certainly our Quebecois don't want to, but then neither does most of Canada. We have differences and we can best maintain our independence by remaining different, and the Constitutional Monarchy that we are, however minimized in practice, is a very important distinction that ties us to Britain.

This leads to the question on Quebec. Many Quebecoises feel largely the same way about the rest of Canada as most Canadians feel about America. They see them as different and want more control over their own affairs. Whether they separate or not depends on how successfully we can work out some kind of constitutional and political arrangement that satisfies them. If you look at Quebec within Canada, and Canada and the US within North America, our futures go hand-and-hand together; even an outright declaration of Quebec's independence wouldn't result, for practical reasons, in the same degree of independence the US achieved from Britain. But I think their drive to be independent will never completely recede.

[ElstonGunn]

We do pay for the Governor General, but we pay for the Senate which does practically nothing too so no biggie.

I thought heard somewhere that you had to pay the Queen in order to be allowed to use "her" language.


How would you describe Canadian cooking?

It looks like Bobert answered this one before I could get to it:
[...] loons & loonies, moose, porcupines, and giant crows that'll win a game of chicken with a car...

And the question about Canadian style, too:
[...] a plate of fries with gravy and a boat to fish in ...]

[MrFlaneur]

hurray for canada (im british)

canada use the queen to distinguish themselves from being american
which is probably why canada has less republican instincts than australia

australia want to be american ,canada doesnt, it want to distinguish itself and the queen is one measure of that

also its free soap opera

[LionsPride]

also its free soap opera

Yep. The queen is great for tourism. We don't pay any monies to her directly, her allowance is not our burden, but we get all of the allure that a country can have with attachment to monarchy. I don't know about you, but I yawn when I see presidential chairs and table settings, but royalty always has that je ne sais quoi. It's not just me, people in general tend to be enamoured with royalty while presidents (or our PM's) just come and go.

[Mozzes]

Yep. The queen is great for tourism. We don't pay any monies to her directly, her allowance is not our burden, but we get all of the allure that a country can have with attachment to monarchy. I don't know about you, but I yawn when I see presidential chairs and table settings, but royalty always has that je ne sais quoi. It's not just me, people in general tend to be enamoured with royalty while presidents (or our PM's) just come and go.

But on the other hand royalty seems to have a much bigger problem with being executed by their so-called subjects. And by their friends. And their family.

I really don't understand the allure of royalty. It's just another form of petty celebrity worship.

[LionsPride]

But on the other hand royalty seems to have a much bigger problem with being executed by their so-called subjects. And by their friends. And their family.

I really don't understand the allure of royalty. It's just another form of petty celebrity worship.

Yes, it is a lot of celebrity worship, but if it's going to be there, might as well capitalize on it eh? Besides, right now many little girls dream of growing up and becoming a princess. Despite the risk of beheading, I'd rather that than little girls wishing the will grow up to be Paris Hilton. So the US can keep your celebs, I'd rather keep the dysfunctional monarchy. Lesser of the evils and all that.

[Mozzes]

Yes, it is a lot of celebrity worship, but if it's going to be there, might as well capitalize on it eh? Besides, right now many little girls dream of growing up and becoming a princess. Despite the risk of beheading, I'd rather that than little girls wishing the will grow up to be Paris Hilton. So the US can keep your celebs, I'd rather keep the dysfunctional monarchy. Lesser of the evils and all that.

Agree about Paris Hilton et al.

I'm kind of caught in a catch 22 regarding monarchs. If they have power I think they're probably despots. If they don't have power they're mere celebrities. Either way I don't like them.

[MaxDandy]

I really don't understand the allure of royalty. It's just another form of petty celebrity worship.

Yes But it is far easier for men to be loyal to a person than an institution, and easier the institution than the Ideal...

and when you have a person who is both the person and the Institution...well I think they have something...

I doubt most brits would die for G brown...but I;m pretty sure a great deal of them would have no qualms about dieing for their queen.

[Mozzes]

Yes But it is far easier for men to be loyal to a person than an institution, and easier the institution than the Ideal...

and when you have a person who is both the person and the Institution...well I think they have something...

I doubt most brits would die for G brown...but I;m pretty sure a great deal of them would have no qualms about dieing for their queen.

Why do you think monarchies are following the dodo?

[LionsPride]

Why do you think monarchies are following the dodo?

Are they? I mean, monarchies in the form of ruling power sure, but many countries have a royal family. Which, by your standard are a set of celebrities except their importance is in being a cultural icon which represents a country's historical lineage.

As to being without power and therefore being useless I would say that the Queen does more in terms of engagements and support of British events then any Hollywood celebrity. Their public engagements as a family number in the hundreds per year and they are involved in awareness campaigns, fund raising campaigns, public holidays, ambassadorship (and hosting ambassadors), ceremonial governmental duties and the like. They are actually quite hard working despite the idea that they just sit around and drink tea and create gossip.

About 3,000 organisations list a member of the Royal Family as patron or president. The Queen has over 600 patronages and The Duke of Edinburgh over 700. (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)

[Shinqui]

Yeah, everyone was furious. Well, everyone who knows anything about how politics works, which is, unfortunately a small number of people. And, unfortunately, the PM has really, really good PR, despite the fact that he looks like he eats babies (read: he's a liar).

It's easier to get away with stuff you're technically not supposed to do if nobody pays attention since The Simpsons is more interesting than Canadian politics.

No, some people were furious, particularily the adherants of the Liberal party. The Governor General's job is to ensure that we have a parliment that is capable of governing the country. She was succesful to that end, during the time that parliment was closed our political parties resolved their differences and are moving forward with the best interests of Canadians in mind.

Your faith in the abilities of the Canadian people to understand what is going on with their goverment is sadly lacking and in my opinion, completely unfounded.

As for other comments on the Queen's representative in Canada, the Governor General, here is a link (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)to her role and responsibilities in Canadian politics.

[INTJohn]

The Brits need Canada and will always do their best to pacify them to some extent because whenever the Brits do get into an actual shooting war - they use the Canadiens for first line of defense canon fodder - great sacrificial sheeple and good Royal Pawns that they are for the Crown.........

[Lucid]

Have you been to Georgia? Trust me you don't want it back...no seriously...you doun't want it back.

Shhhh!

Hey Brits... you know the South here is just awesome! Don't you want to annex it or something? Come over and we'll work something out so you can have everything south of the Mason Dixon line. Hey, that includes Disney World!

Nah nah, we have a Queen and you don't. :p

Obviously you haven't been to Bump and Grind on East Colfax in Denver. We have queens aplenty. :)

Unlike our impetuous neighbours... we simply developed our country independently, taking good policy from the Brits; and smiling and nodding at bad policy.

You want to come down here and say that to our faces?

I'm quite proud of the fact that we didn't have to fight a Revolutionary war to get what we wanted ;) In the looking glass of history, the USA fought and gained what that we haven't gained without fighting? :/

Um... independance from the Brits.

Ok, in seriousness though, I know that Australia doesn't have a constitutionally guaranteed right to freedom of speech (or anything else... I think). Is this also the case in Canada? What rights and/or freedoms are guaranteed by your constitution?

We are the mirror image of the world's soul. :)

And so humble. :p

[Perf]

Shhhh!
Ok, in seriousness though, I know that Australia doesn't have a constitutionally guaranteed right to freedom of speech (or anything else... I think). Is this also the case in Canada? What rights and/or freedoms are guaranteed by your constitution?
We have the Charter of Rights & Freedoms. It's pretty broad. Best to Google it.

[LaoTzu]

Um... independance from the Brits.


Sorry, I was looking for something tangible...

In retrospect, I'll retract the comment. Y'all went rogue 100 years before Canada was born, different times, different measures...

So I'll say something nice about the USA.... The ideals that the country was founded on are pretty fantastic. Really, the documents of birth of the USA was an example of humanity at it's best.

I think I just go into attack mode whenever any American talks Canada... it's a reflex really; taught at a young age. lol (j/k...)

Seriously though? I think a lot of Canadians are just a little bitter that the US hasn't been living up to it's ideals since Vietnam... We get it. We really do. Empire and all that... that's great. For you.
Its just the self-adulation that pisses us off about it... and then to have the gall to poke fun? And say we 'envy' you? hahaha!! It's really just to justify your actions to yourselves... it's really to shut off any real debate over them.

We can sleep peacefully. No fears. No worries. No Guilt.
(And don't give me any hooey about the US protecting us ... lol!)

I sound less than humble... sound self-righteous... I know. Don't have the proper words to make it sound any different is all. We simply are who we are, no better no worse than any other country in the world.

[LionsPride]

Ok, in seriousness though, I know that Australia doesn't have a constitutionally guaranteed right to freedom of speech (or anything else... I think). Is this also the case in Canada? What rights and/or freedoms are guaranteed by your constitution?


Oh, you mean like the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms? (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) To save you the google trip ;)

[HackerX]

(I suspect it's the same for Australia)


Pretty much exactly to same. Well, the parliament structure might differ, but the GG -> Queen structure etc will be the same.

For an idea of what power the Governer General has, read up:
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[Lucid]

Sorry, I was looking for something tangible...

In retrospect, I'll retract the comment. Y'all went rogue 100 years before Canada was born, different times, different measures...

Well, we did try diplomacy first. I think the incarnation of British government you all encountered when you succeeded learned from George's mistakes and so were more willing to let you go than to fight a war.

So I'll say something nice about the USA.... The ideals that the country was founded on are pretty fantastic. Really, the documents of birth of the USA was an example of humanity at it's best.

Agreed! I wish we'd do a better job of sticking to those ideals. And thank you :)

I think I just go into attack mode whenever any American talks Canada... it's a reflex really; taught at a young age. lol (j/k...)

Seriously though? I think a lot of Canadians are just a little bitter that the US hasn't been living up to it's ideals since Vietnam... We get it. We really do. Empire and all that... that's great. For you.

Empire? I think that the rest of the world has the wrong idea about why we do the things we do. And trust me, I'm not defending what we do in that regard; I don't like it either. But it's not about empire. We don't have any interest in colonizing the middle east. It started because of communism and the threat Russia seemed to want to make of itself. We got all weird about it and started meddling in the middle east to keep Russia from succeeding in Afghanistan and establishing an easy land route to communist China. Now it's about oil and making money for certain military interests. :(

Its just the self-adulation that pisses us off about it... and then to have the gall to poke fun? And say we 'envy' you? hahaha!! It's really just to justify your actions to yourselves... it's really to shut off any real debate over them.

I think you're generalizing a bit here. Granted, some of us (myself included) get a bit prickley when people who have never been here and know very few US Americans start calling us ignorant and backwards and all that. That gets pretty old pretty fast.
I'm not sure what self-adulation you're talking about though. I'm not saying there isn't any, just maybe you could provide an example?
Poke fun at you? Say that you 'envy' us? Seriously where are you getting this? And if it is true (and maybe it is, I don't live near the Canadian border so I don't have much exposure to US/Canadian interactions) how is it any different from a lot of what you're saying about us in this thread? How is it any different from Pandemonium who calls us ignorant and backwards at every opportunity? Or barbarians for allowing people to own guns when they don't understand the laws and circumstances around it. I could go on. I'm not trying to go on a "Oh poor us, we're un popular because people don't take the time to learn if their stereotype is correct or not. Whaaaa!" trip here, but seriously, how is what you're complaining about any different?

We can sleep peacefully. No fears. No worries. No Guilt.
(And don't give me any hooey about the US protecting us ... lol!)

Why would we protect you? Actually, if you were invaded or something we probably would help if you needed it. I think most people in the US like Canadians and would certainly side with you over most outside aggressors.
And again, you're making comments based on issues you don't seem to understand very well. Maybe you're having trouble seperating the citizens from the politicians? I mean, yeah... all those people killed in NY on 9/11? Apparently that was because Regan gave weapons to Israel and Kuwait sought help against Iraq from Bush Sr. instead of muslim sources. Not because of anything any of them did themselves.
And guilt? You as an individual have the same things to feel guilty about as I do as an individual.

I sound less than humble... sound self-righteous... I know. Don't have the proper words to make it sound any different is all. We simply are who we are, no better no worse than any other country in the world.

Yeah? If that's what you think you're entire post sure as fuck had me fooled.
I guess it's easier to just blanket hate a culture or a country than to understand the reality of the situation, the issues, and the actual people you're whining about.

Yeah, this little exchange kind of started out in good natured fun on my end, but now I'm pissed off.

Oh, you mean like the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms? (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) To save you the google trip ;)

You know, maybe it's just coming off this way because I just got done reading Lao Tzu's magical post of mystical "Poor Canada the US sucks" ramblings, but I was honestly asking a question. Not trying to rub the US's constitutional guarantees or freedoms in anyone's face. Just trying to establish which former British colonies had which kinds of rights.

[HackerX]

Australian Constitution:
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It's essentially British rights, plus or minus some stuff.

The problem comes with the fact that the Australian constitution specifically breaks with the British constitution, so there's nothing clearly stating whether or not some of the rights implied in the British constitution are still implied within our constitution. That's how I interpret it anyway.

[LaoTzu]

Well, we did try diplomacy first. I think the incarnation of British government you all encountered when you succeeded learned from George's mistakes and so were more willing to let you go than to fight a war.

Agreed.

Empire? I think that the rest of the world has the wrong idea about why we do the things we do. And trust me, I'm not defending what we do in that regard; I don't like it either. But it's not about empire. We don't have any interest in colonizing the middle east. It started because of communism and the threat Russia seemed to want to make of itself. We got all weird about it and started meddling in the middle east to keep Russia from succeeding in Afghanistan and establishing an easy land route to communist China. Now it's about oil and making money for certain military interests. :(

Actually, those are the same interests that promoted the ideal of the Domino theory. Communism, flawed as it is; found wide support back in the day. (something to the tune of 2/3's of the world?) That would have spelled disaster for the Capitalist ideal... so ... 'Red Menace' became the fear of the day. The cold war began, based on irrational fears; and supported by a DISinformed populace.


I think you're generalizing a bit here. Granted, some of us (myself included) get a bit prickley when people who have never been here and know very few US Americans start calling us ignorant and backwards and all that. That gets pretty old pretty fast.
I'm not sure what self-adulation you're talking about though. I'm not saying there isn't any, just maybe you could provide an example?
Poke fun at you? Say that you 'envy' us? Seriously where are you getting this? And if it is true (and maybe it is, I don't live near the Canadian border so I don't have much exposure to US/Canadian interactions) how is it any different from a lot of what you're saying about us in this thread? How is it any different from Pandemonium who calls us ignorant and backwards at every opportunity? Or barbarians for allowing people to own guns when they don't understand the laws and circumstances around it. I could go on. I'm not trying to go on a "Oh poor us, we're un popular because people don't take the time to learn if their stereotype is correct or not. Whaaaa!" trip here, but seriously, how is what you're complaining about any different?

You do realize that I live smack in the middle of Detroit and Buffalo? :/ I mean... just today I could have chucked a rock across the river at GM's headquarters... To think I don't know about US culture? Come on.... I get the same channels as you. I listen to NPR. I work for an American company... I know Americans... The idea that we're really that foreign to each other?... It's really kind of laughable. Self-Adulation?? Seriously... you really need an example? Here's one: Watch the start of any Nascar Race... (just one, MarkMartin pwns btw...)Envy?? I wouldn't have mentioned it if I haven't heard it repeatedly from various sources. (Actually, it's been a catch-all for anything resembling Anti-Americanism from outside sources for years)
I don't consider Americans as backwards... we're too similar. It'd be dissing my own people really... We have our share of 'hicks' who don't understand world affairs as well. And there are still racist holdouts that need a beating here too.


Why would we protect you? Actually, if you were invaded or something we probably would help if you needed it. I think most people in the US like Canadians and would certainly side with you over most outside aggressors.
And again, you're making comments based on issues you don't seem to understand very well. Maybe you're having trouble seperating the citizens from the politicians? I mean, yeah... all those people killed in NY on 9/11? Apparently that was because Regan gave weapons to Israel and Kuwait sought help against Iraq from Bush Sr. instead of muslim sources. Not because of anything any of them did themselves.
And guilt? You as an individual have the same things to feel guilty about as I do as an individual.

Again... it's the standard line I get. "well you don't have a military and you'd come crying to us if you were attacked..." It's my fault for bringing it up to people of intelligence.
9/11?? Actually, it was BushSr.'s fault. His CIA supplied training and weapons to people who never hid their animosity for the US. His connections allowed for Saudi money to flow to the terrorists. Afghanistan? Yeah, I guess sending those terrorists into Russia DID keep the commies interested in Afghanistan long after they would have pulled out were they not being attacked; and probably DID help the Soviets fold. However, were any of those shenanigans tried by our government, they'd be on the street or in prison....not congratulating their son on his own Election. (are you sure you dont have a monarchy? :P)


Yeah? If that's what you think you're entire post sure as fuck had me fooled.
I guess it's easier to just blanket hate a culture or a country than to understand the reality of the situation, the issues, and the actual people you're whining about.

Yeah, this little exchange kind of started out in good natured fun on my end, but now I'm pissed off.

Sorry... Debates on this stuff really does bring out the worst. Probably why there's really never been a national debate... I could see us cutting off your oil/water/electricity the second you messed with our great seal-clubbing adventure. :P


You know, maybe it's just coming off this way because I just got done reading Lao Tzu's magical post of mystical "Poor Canada the US sucks" ramblings, but I was honestly asking a question. Not trying to rub the US's constitutional guarantees or freedoms in anyone's face. Just trying to establish which former British colonies had which kinds of rights.

See.... the idea that you COULD rub your constitutional guarantees in anyone's face is itself kind of snobby (which I am being accused of).
It presupposes that your constitution is the ONLY document worthy of praise... ( I know that's wasn't your intention )
I honestly will say, that I think Canadians are ultimately more free than Americans are. (And I wont name the country with the greatest number of prisoners to do it)

[b00mBo0m08]

Notice that in the first paragraph that there is a clause stating that our rights and freedoms are "subject to reasonable limits? In the US, they don't have this.
Does the US even follow their constitution anymore? As I understand it, US presidents consult Lawyers to tell them what is in the US Constitution(JFK).

Quebec issue:
As I understand it, Upper Canada and Lower Canada are the two founding nations of the Dominion of Canada. So why do the french get only one province while english Canada gets everything else? That is the issue.

[HackerX]

Quebec issue:
As I understand it, Upper Canada and Lower Canada are the two founding nations of the Dominion of Canada. So why do the french get only one province while english Canada gets everything else? That is the issue.

I'm reasonably hazy on this... but as far as I was aware, that's all that belonged to the french.

[Lucid]

Actually, those are the same interests that promoted the ideal of the Domino theory. Communism, flawed as it is; found wide support back in the day. (something to the tune of 2/3's of the world?) That would have spelled disaster for the Capitalist ideal... so ... 'Red Menace' became the fear of the day. The cold war began, based on irrational fears; and supported by a DISinformed populace.

This may be part of it, but I think banging shoes on the desk at the UN and screaming "We will destroy you!" had something to do with it as well.

You do realize that I live smack in the middle of Detroit and Buffalo? :/ I mean... just today I could have chucked a rock across the river at GM's headquarters... To think I don't know about US culture? Come on.... I get the same channels as you. I listen to NPR. I work for an American company... I know Americans... The idea that we're really that foreign to each other?... It's really kind of laughable. Self-Adulation?? Seriously... you really need an example? Here's one: Watch the start of any Nascar Race... (just one, MarkMartin pwns btw...)Envy?? I wouldn't have mentioned it if I haven't heard it repeatedly from various sources. (Actually, it's been a catch-all for anything resembling Anti-Americanism from outside sources for years)

I'm not saying you don't understand the issues you're talking about because you're Canadian. There are several Canadians on this forum who know quite a bit about it and understand these things very well. I'm saying you don't understand the issues because what you said in your post showed me that you didn't understand the issues.

I don't consider Americans as backwards... we're too similar. It'd be dissing my own people really... We have our share of 'hicks' who don't understand world affairs as well. And there are still racist holdouts that need a beating here too.

No, it's Pandemonium who said Americans were backwards.

Again... it's the standard line I get. "well you don't have a military and you'd come crying to us if you were attacked..." It's my fault for bringing it up to people of intelligence.

Excuse me? I said "We'd probably help you if you needed it" and you're sayng "It's the standard line I get. 'well you don't have a military and you'd come crying to us if you were attacked...'" Are we speaking the same language? Let me ask you this: Do they ususally say that before or after you insult their nationality and talk shit about the US?

9/11?? Actually, it was BushSr.'s fault. His CIA supplied training and weapons to people who never hid their animosity for the US. His connections allowed for Saudi money to flow to the terrorists. Afghanistan? Yeah, I guess sending those terrorists into Russia DID keep the commies interested in Afghanistan long after they would have pulled out were they not being attacked; and probably DID help the Soviets fold.

Right. What I'm saying is that the people who actually died in 9/11 had nothing to do with it. Are you sure we Americans actually make fun of you and talk about how much better we are? Because based on the level of comprehension of what I'm saying that you're showing here, I think it's a good guess that it might be in your head.

However, were any of those shenanigans tried by our government, they'd be on the street or in prison....not congratulating their son on his own Election. (are you sure you dont have a monarchy? :P)

Yeah, I would have said the same thing until my government did it. It's really easy for people outside a situation or a problem to condemn those on the inside of it. I've found that if those same people ever find themselves in a similar situation (and often they do) they end up eating their words. When you look at us, it's possible that you're seeing yourselves in 75 years.

Sorry... Debates on this stuff really does bring out the worst. Probably why there's really never been a national debate... I could see us cutting off your oil/water/electricity the second you messed with our great seal-clubbing adventure. :P

I get my water from an aquifer about 50 miles to the east of where I live. We get the majority of our oil from Saudi Arabia (but quite a bit from Canada) and we're trying as we speak to find other energy sources.

See.... the idea that you COULD rub your constitutional guarantees in anyone's face is itself kind of snobby (which I am being accused of).
It presupposes that your constitution is the ONLY document worthy of praise... ( I know that's wasn't your intention )

Actually, it presupposes that a bunch of Canadians think that Americans go about talking about how much better than Canadians we are and says explicitly that I'm not trying to do that. You have some kind of inferority thing going on here. Everything I say to the effect of "Yeah, the US does suck in some ways, but not all ways... and I don't think we're better than Canada" is coming through to you as "Look how much better the US is than Canada."
Saying that to be proud of our constitution presupposes that its the only document worthy of praise is something of a failure in logic. I happen to be very fond of my cat, but I fully recognize that there are other worthy cats in the world. And if you understood my intention then what's your issue, exactly?

[LionsPride]

Quebec issue:
As I understand it, Upper Canada and Lower Canada are the two founding nations of the Dominion of Canada. So why do the french get only one province while english Canada gets everything else? That is the issue.

Upper Canada was English. Lower Canada was French. The reason the French only got one province is that lost the battle for Canada making it British rule. The rest of Canada was settled by non-French speaking people and other than a few pockets of French in some provinces, they didn't really leave Quebec. I say non-French speaking because we were settled by Germans, Ukraine, Polish and the standard fair of immigrants.

The French are upset for a number of reasons, but most recently it was failure of the amendment to the constitution (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) which had some extra lingo in it to make Quebec happy. Personally, I think that recognizing a province as being a distinct society isn't needed in the constitution, but apparently most of Quebec thought differently. Things never really got sorted out after that.

[Prunesquallor]

No, some people were furious, particularily the adherants of the Liberal party. The Governor General's job is to ensure that we have a parliment that is capable of governing the country. She was succesful to that end, during the time that parliment was closed our political parties resolved their differences and are moving forward with the best interests of Canadians in mind.

Your faith in the abilities of the Canadian people to understand what is going on with their goverment is sadly lacking and in my opinion, completely unfounded.

As for other comments on the Queen's representative in Canada, the Governor General, here is a link (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)to her role and responsibilities in Canadian politics.

What faith? I said it was hardly anyone.

I'm most certainly not an adherent of the Liberal party, but I was angry. PM had lost the confidence of the house - that is clearly not a parliament that is capable of governing the country. I can't say I had great faith in the coalition either, but setting the precedent of allowing the PM to dissolve parliament in order to avoid a non-confidence vote is foolish. It's a poor, poor precedent.
And do you honestly think they've resolved their differences?? Harper pretended nice and avoided taking away the other parties' funding the way he wanted, but it's not all fun and games. NDP and Bloc are not being all that cooperative.

[Mozzes]

We get the majority of our oil from Saudi Arabia (but quite a bit from Canada) and we're trying as we speak to find other energy sources.

Not true. We import more oil from Canada than any other country in the world and by a large margin. Generally we import more oil from Canada than the entire middle east combined.

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[Bobert]

Why would we protect you? Actually, if you were invaded or something we probably would help if you needed it. I think most people in the US like Canadians and would certainly side with you over most outside aggressors.

Well, I think we'd (U.S.) help most of them if needed. I can think of one that might be overlooked.
-----

"Not true. We import more oil from Canada than any other country in the world and by a large margin. Generally we import more oil from Canada than the entire middle east combined."

True. We get only about 3% of crude from the middle east. The majority is from CA and the Gulf of Mexico.

[Mozzes]

True. We get only about 3% of crude from the middle east. The majority is from CA and the Gulf of Mexico.

I'm not sure if that's quite correct either. If the statistics I linked from the DOE are correct Saudi Arabia is still our second biggest importer of crude and it looks like middle east crude is about 15% of our total imports.

[Lucid]

Not true. We import more oil from Canada than any other country in the world and by a large margin. Generally we import more oil from Canada than the entire middle east combined.

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Good! When last I had this argument (probably in 2006) it was Saudi Arabia followed by Canada. My info was out of date. :(

However, I'm looking at this link you posted and appears that we get about twice as much oil (in Dec 08) from all the countries in the middle east combined than from Canada. And substantially more from Mexico and South American countries combined than from Canada. And about 6571 thousand barrels of imported oil (per day) are from places other than Canada. That's about three times as much oil from non-Canadian sources as from Canadian sources.

[LaoTzu]

Lucid:

I'd reply point by point... but I'm thinking we're arguing from behind certain walls and can't see what's really being said... I'll just say that I don't consider you to be an 'average' representation of an American, and nothing is to be taken personally.

You want to know why the US is constantly criticized?
It's because of wasted potential.
The US SHOULD be the greatest force for good in the world like pinhead Sean Hannity seems to think it IS. But it's not.
When the Soviets fell, and Clinton became prez... I really had a lot of hope for the USofA. Thought the world could be set right, and that brighter days were on the horizon for everyone in this world. I was sorely mistaken. Maybe just a little bitter about it too. You might say...why's that the US's problem? ... that just comes with being the sole superpower. A lot of the shit going on now was begun purposely to ensure US dominance. Now I simply pray China will come up and exert some balancing pressure. (This is really a debate for another day)

I don't come to my opinions lightly. I've been ingrained in studying everything from Chomsky and Zinn, to Hannity and Limbaugh for decades (just naming extremes here). Were I to want to become an American citizen, I wouldn't need to study anything...I could do the test cold. I may be Canadian, but our two cultures really don't differ...at all really... we're just a more socialist version of yourselves.

I come off reactionary and smug... I know. I'll work on it...
But don't doubt for a second that I haven't given it a lot of thought, and a fair shake to the other side. Of course I'm taking pot-shots... were I on your side, I'd be in every editorial and on every radio talk show I could get onto; and saying the same things.

Being considered an 'outsider', I fail to see the use.

[Lucid]

Lucid:

I'd reply point by point... but I'm thinking we're arguing from behind certain walls and can't see what's really being said... I'll just say that I don't consider you to be an 'average' representation of an American, and nothing is to be taken personally.

Then you don't know enough of us. Or the ones you've encountered are crappy (this may not be as unreasonable as it sounds - generally we tend to encounter many people of a certain kind because of where we live, what we do for work, etc.). Most of the Americans I know and have encountered are more like me than like the Americans you are describing. Also, I think it's possible (and even likely) that with regard to Americans you are suffering from some confirmation bias.

In addition, I freely admit that the US has done some crappy things and that there are lots of things we should change or improve. However, that's not to say that it will always be this way. You're looking at it using only one rather small slice of time and, of course, we can't know the future. Maybe Canada will become more like the US. Maybe the US will become more like Canada.

Just chill out when it comes to this kind of thing. Don't be so quick to judge.

[LaoTzu]

Don't be so quick to judge.

It's nice to be accused of this for once ;)

[Mozzes]

Good! When last I had this argument (probably in 2006) it was Saudi Arabia followed by Canada. My info was out of date. :(

However, I'm looking at this link you posted and appears that we get about twice as much oil (in Dec 08) from all the countries in the middle east combined than from Canada.

??? I only see three middle east countries on that list - Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Kuwait - and their numbers appear to only be about equal to that of Canadian crude imports.

[Lucid]

??? I only see three middle east countries on that list - Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Kuwait - and their numbers appear to only be about equal to that of Canadian crude imports.

Those three countries combined are 2044 thousand barrels of imported oil a day (for December 08). Canada's is 1994 thousand barrels of imported oil a day. We import more oil from the entire Middle East combined than we do from Canada. Not by a large margin, but I was responding to you saying that generally we import more oil from Canada than the entire middle east combined.

EDIT: I just reread my post and realized I'd said twice as much. Either I was doing my math wrong or not saying what I meant. Either way, the fault is mine.

We get a lot of oil from Canada. But by no means most of it.

It's nice to be accused of this for once ;)

I feel it bears mentioning that I've encountered many Canadians, Brits, Europeans, South Americans, Australians and Middle Easterners who act just like you're criticizing many Americans for acting. Are most of them this way? I don't know, I don't think my sample size is large enough to make such a judgement. But it seems like much of the world holds the US and its citizens to standards it is not willing to meet itself. This is both frustrating and distasteful.

Also, I like Canada and it makes me sad that Canada does not like me. :(

[ElstonGunn]

So I'll say something nice about the USA.... The ideals that the country was founded on are pretty fantastic. Really, the documents of birth of the USA was an example of humanity at it's best.

Yep, there's nothing nobler than not wanting to pay taxes to cover the cost of having your leaders fight a war to defend you, counting black people as 3/5 of a person, not allowing women to vote, and considering indigenous people a mere obstacle to be disposed of in the process of expanding over half a continent. Although I'm definitely not saying that it didn't work out well for us, let alone for me personally.


I think I just go into attack mode whenever any American talks Canada... it's a reflex really; taught at a young age. lol (j/k...)

Canada sucks.

...Nah, I know what you mean. In spite of being completely American, the closest "major city" to where I live is Chronna (or, for you sticklers, "Toronto"). It's mostly just a rivalry thing going on for me. (...A rivalry in which Canada sucks.)

[Mozzes]

Those three countries combined are 2044 thousand barrels of imported oil a day (for December 08). Canada's is 1994 thousand barrels of imported oil a day. We import more oil from the entire Middle East combined than we do from Canada. Not by a large margin, but I was responding to you saying that generally we import more oil from Canada than the entire middle east combined. I'm not sure I meant twice as much. I just reread my post and realized I'd typed that. Either I was doing my math wrong or not saying what I meant.

We get a lot of oil from Canada. But by no means most of it.

Ok ok. Your right. I was sort of exaggerating for effect and hoping you'd overlook the particulars. Way to bust me on it... :p

Maybe one of these days energy imports will be a moot point because, you know, we'll produce our own, hopefully clean, energy. I'm starting to think that's not likely to happen in our lifetime though.

[Lucid]

Ok ok. Your right. I was sort of exaggerating for effect and hoping you'd overlook the particulars.

Maybe one of these energy imports will be a moot point because, you know, we'll produce our own, hopefully clean, energy. I'm starting to think that's not likely to happen in our lifetime though.

Agreed. Although if we have to use oil, I'd rather get it from Canada than from the middle east. We seem to be on friendlier terms with them.

[Mozzes]

Agreed. Although if we have to use oil, I'd rather get it from Canada than from the middle east. We seem to be on friendlier terms with them.

Or our own oil. We supposedly have large deposits in the northern plains that might be easily extractable once some new drilling techniques are developed. Even though oil isn't the perfect energy solution it'd be nice to see us keep a couple of hundred billion dollars per year here at home and maybe even sell some of it to balance out our trade deficit.

[Lucid]

Or our own oil. We supposedly have large deposits in the northern plains that might be easily extractable once some new drilling techniques are developed. Even though oil isn't the perfect energy solution it'd be nice to see us keep a couple of hundred billion dollars per year here at home and maybe even sell some of it to balance out our trade deficit.

Yeah, let me rephrase actually: If we have to use imported oil.... etc.

Balancing out our trade deficit would be a plus. Maybe we can sell Canadians on the black market. :p

[Mozzes]

Yeah, let me rephrase actually: If we have to use imported oil.... etc.

Balancing out our trade deficit would be a plus. Maybe we can sell Canadians on the black market. :p

Do you mean sell Canadian people on the black market? Hmmm...bold and innovative but I don't know that there's much demand for them. I mean, they're almost as whiny and arrogant as us Americans. Almost.

[Lucid]

Do you mean sell Canadian people on the black market? Hmmm...bold and innovative but I don't know that there's much demand for them. I mean, they're almost as whiny and arrogant as us Americans. Almost.

I did mean selling Canadian people on the black market. I have it on good authority that they don't have an army. We could invade and take a few to start colonies here.

I realize they're almost as bad as we Americans are, but they say "about" and "couch" in such cute accents. And they have amazing flappy heads. I think we could get quite a bit for them. It would revitalize our failing US economy and provide jobs in production and exports.

Actually, I think it's either export Canadians or somehow convince China to invade us and bring jobs and socialized medicine with them. :p

[Mozzes]

I did mean selling Canadian people on the black market. I have it on good authority that they don't have an army. We could invade and take a few to start colonies here.

I realize they're almost as bad as we Americans are, but they say "about" and "couch" in such cute accents. And they have amazing flappy heads. I think we could get quite a bit for them. It would revitalize our failing US economy and provide jobs in production and exports.

Actually, I think it's either export Canadians or somehow convince China to invade us and bring jobs and socialized medicine with them. :p

All true but there is the potential problem of there not being very many Canadians. Perhaps we could sell them as a luxury item, limited edition, etc? Or maybe we can genetically engineer Canadians. From babe to adult in 8 weeks! Just add water!

Hmmm...yes, and considering how docile they are we shouldn't have any trouble capturing the Canadian plaid flannel industry. Could be profitable considering it's always 1985 somewhere in the world.

Maybe we should stop here. This line of thinking could go from shady to dark real fast. :devilish:

[Rudy]

Heh. This conversation reminded me about a talk that Christopher Hitchens gave in Michigan on Thomas Jefferson:

Hitchens on Jefferson and Bush (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)

He was asked what Thomas Jefferson would think of America today. He said that he'd look the people of Michigan in the eye with great reproach at the fact that Canada remains unconquered. =D

[hongi]

From trends of the latest posts, us Canadian's obviously need to give another object lesson . . . it is almost the 200th aniversary when Washington, DC was burnt! :)
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[Rudy]

From trends of the latest posts, us Canadian's obviously need to give another object lesson . . . it is almost the 200th aniversary when Washington, DC was burnt! :)
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Don't you need, like... a military, or something, to burn down people's capitals? ;)

[LionsPride]

Don't you need, like... a military, or something, to burn down people's capitals? ;)

Nah! Just some drunken hosers with matches. No one suspects the Canadians!

Hoser 1: Hey, are we out of beer?
Hoser 2: Beer Run!
Hoser 1: Okay, but this time you ride on the back of the skidoo eh?
Hoser 2: Can we burn down DC while were out?
Hoser 1: For sure, eh! I'll get the matches...But we should be all stealthy and stuff. We should wear camo!
Hoser 2: But I'm already wearing camo you hoser!
Hoser 1: ???
Hoser 2: *removes plaid jacket*
Hoser 1: Right on eh!
Hoser 2: Let's go burn stuff!
Hoser 1: And beer, we need beer.
Hoser 2: Oh yah, at least a couple of two-fours. DC's like far.

[Lucid]

Nah! Just some drunken hosers with matches. No one suspects the Canadians!

I think we're all forgetting one very important fact: Canadians die of heatstroke if they travel any farther south than Wyoming. :p

[LionsPride]

I think we're all forgetting one very important fact: Canadians die of heatstroke if they travel any farther south than Wyoming. :p

You're right! We'd have to get the snowbirds to do it on their way to Florida/Arizona. They've been acclimatized. No one would suspect a geriatric Canadian! A few oxygen tanks and a pipe might do it. ;)

[Lucid]

You're right! We'd have to get the snowbirds to do it on their way to Florida/Arizona. They've been acclimatized. No one would suspect a geriatric Canadian! A few oxygen tanks and a pipe might do it. ;)

Well where the hell was this plan back in 2000? I ask you! Now you Canadians show up and say you'll burn DC?? Pfft!

[LionsPride]

I know I know! Our key operative had a lung replaced, for fun, free health care yadda yadda, anyway he wasn't cleared to travel by dog sled for several months and by then it was hunting season. It was a debacle all around. Don't even get me started about the polar bears and mosquitoes. :rolleyes:. Long story short, he's down a leg, but Ed, his same sex spouse, is going to wheel him there. Ed's a great guy. Went to the wedding. The wedding colours were plaid and Celine Dion sang the first dance. They spent their honeymoon in an igloo built for two.

[Shinqui]

What faith? I said it was hardly anyone.

I'm most certainly not an adherent of the Liberal party, but I was angry. PM had lost the confidence of the house - that is clearly not a parliament that is capable of governing the country. I can't say I had great faith in the coalition either, but setting the precedent of allowing the PM to dissolve parliament in order to avoid a non-confidence vote is foolish. It's a poor, poor precedent.
And do you honestly think they've resolved their differences?? Harper pretended nice and avoided taking away the other parties' funding the way he wanted, but it's not all fun and games. NDP and Bloc are not being all that cooperative.

No, all differences are not resolved, but enough were to continue on with the business of governing this country. And yes, the NDP and Bloc are not being that co-operative, but what would one expect from a provincial party that has power in federal politics. As for the NDP, and Layton specifically, I am highly dissapointed in his behaviour. It was an ideal time for the NDP to wedge into place another one of their brilliant ideas, something they have been doing for some time, and he blew it. It's making me seriously reconsider my allegiance to this party.

The alliance that was formed was the political equivalence of a coup, and that was the precedent that was stopped, prorogueing parliament was simply a tool, and one that I agree with. I am not a conservative, nor have I ever been, but the behaviours of the Liberal, NDP and Bloc Quebecois during this time has been simply disgraceful.

Canada, like any other country in the world at this time is in the midst of a very serious economic crisis, this is not the time for power grabbing, it is the time for working together to create solutions. I am thankful that the Governor General agrees with this.

[Prunesquallor]

No, all differences are not resolved, but enough were to continue on with the business of governing this country. And yes, the NDP and Bloc are not being that co-operative, but what would one expect from a provincial party that has power in federal politics. As for the NDP, and Layton specifically, I am highly dissapointed in his behaviour. It was an ideal time for the NDP to wedge into place another one of their brilliant ideas, something they have been doing for some time, and he blew it. It's making me seriously reconsider my allegiance to this party.

The alliance that was formed was the political equivalence of a coup, and that was the precedent that was stopped, prorogueing parliament was simply a tool, and one that I agree with. I am not a conservative, nor have I ever been, but the behaviours of the Liberal, NDP and Bloc Quebecois during this time has been simply disgraceful.

Canada, like any other country in the world at this time is in the midst of a very serious economic crisis, this is not the time for power grabbing, it is the time for working together to create solutions. I am thankful that the Governor General agrees with this.

I don't like Layton either, mind. I'm not proud of any of them.

Midst of very serious economic crisis, yes = time to give the house weeks and weeks of paid holiday? I think not.

Political equivalent of a coup? How can you say that? Do you know how our government works? We elect a House of Commons, NOT a Prime Minister, the PM is the person with the confidence of the House. Which, then, was definitely not Harper. It is a fully legal and recognised action to create a coalition in those circumstances. We've been lucky with stable minorities and majorities, but coalition governments are the norm in many countries with analogous political systems. And it was the fully legal approach to the circumstance. Harper was lying when he claimed it was unconstitutional and all that bullshit. I advise you to read this article (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) which explains the process. There's a lot of ignorance surrounding this issue, and usually people making your argument don't actually understand the system - if however, you did know all this, and still believe Harper was right, can you explain why, in this case, a recognised democratic process was a "coup"?

[Lucid]

I know I know! Our key operative had a lung replaced, for fun, free health care yadda yadda, anyway he wasn't cleared to travel by dog sled for several months and by then it was hunting season. It was a debacle all around. Don't even get me started about the polar bears and mosquitoes. :rolleyes:. Long story short, he's down a leg, but Ed, his same sex spouse, is going to wheel him there. Ed's a great guy. Went to the wedding. The wedding colours were plaid and Celine Dion sang the first dance. They spent their honeymoon in an igloo built for two.

I will have you know that I laughed so hard that salsa almost came out my nose.

I'd have to be transported to the Canada/Michigan border for emergency treatement because I don't have health insurance.

All Canadians know Celine Dion personally, right? I thought so. :p

[LionsPride]

All Canadians know Celine Dion personally, right? I thought so. :p

Know her? No. That would be silly. But I used to watch Mike Myers wrestle wolves and Shania Twain and I used to shoot gophers from the pickup on weekends. I tell you, shooting a .22 while wearing a fur parka and mittens isn't as easy as it sounds. No doot aboot it!

[Mozzes]

You've left out lumberjacks and Kevin Smith. I want to fully experience Canadian culture via your words.

[ElstonGunn]

I tell you, shooting a .22 while wearing a fur parka and mittens isn't as easy as it sounds. No doot aboot it!

Like your national hero says, "If the women don't find ya handsome, they should at least find ya handy."

[LionsPride]

You've left out lumberjacks and Kevin Smith. I want to fully experience Canadian culture via your words.

So, this one time, last August, Kevin Smith and I were out ice fishing. It was warm day and I was only wearing my standard plaid jacket, jeans, toque and mukluks. And Bob, the lumberjack, pulls up on his quad. After the standard greetings of offering beer and jerky he tells us that there is a rabid beaver in the woods.

I said, "No shit eh?".
He said, "No shit!".

Kevin Smith didn't say anything, he's like that, which is great because he doesn't scare the fish. Anyway, rabid beaver. So I say we should go report that to the mounties. Bob's not thrilled, he's scared of horses. You'd think a lumberjack would be all manly and some stuff, but they aren't. So Kevin and I have to skidoo over to the mountie station. Turns out the beaver was actually Jim Carrey's pet that got into his shaving cream. True story!

[Lucid]

Know her? No. That would be silly. But I used to watch Mike Myers wrestle wolves and Shania Twain and I used to shoot gophers from the pickup on weekends. I tell you, shooting a .22 while wearing a fur parka and mittens isn't as easy as it sounds. No doot aboot it!

Shania Twain is Canadian?

You've left out lumberjacks and Kevin Smith. I want to fully experience Canadian culture via your words.

Dude, isn't Kevin Smith from Jersey?

[Synamon]

Shania Twain is Canadian?

Yes indeed.

Dude, isn't Kevin Smith from Jersey?

He is, but he's an rabid fan of Degrassi Junior High which makes him an honorary Canadian. :laugh:

[Bobert]

Dude, isn't Kevin Smith from Jersey?

That's what I thought. Google time.

IMDB says he's born and raised in NJ.

[ElstonGunn]

He is, but he's an rabid fan of Degrassi Junior High which makes him an honorary Canadian. :laugh:

I thought that made him an honorary 12-year old.

[LaoTzu]

He's too talented to be American!! :P We'll trade you Shatner for him!

wait.... on second thought...Shatner is pretty funny these days... hmmm... wait... you keep Jim Carrey and Mike Myers for Kevin Smith.... oh and Kiefer Sutherland... yeah...keep him. (We keep his pop tho m'kay?)


I reluctantly vote NDP still. They actually won in my riding, which gave me a giggle. I have to admit though, that I'm sure I could handle things better than Layton... I like him, I just think he's missing the boat on a lot of issues. I sat and listened to him give his platform, and honestly I don't agree with most of it.... however, I still enjoy using them to give a big F.U. to the other parties. (Green is not viable for me...)

I totally supported the coalition. Anyone calling it a 'coup' was listening a little too hard to the media... it was totally legal, and if you remove 'honour' from the debate, it was totally workable and worth it. Harper came into office thinking he was going to rule on his own...and he doesn't quite have a mandate for that. Even though the coalition didn't work (how could it with Dionne running the show?) I think it was good for Canada.... Harper was humbled.

[Lucid]

He's too talented to be American!! :P We'll trade you Shatner for him!

wait.... on second thought...Shatner is pretty funny these days... hmmm... wait... you keep Jim Carrey and Mike Myers for Kevin Smith.... oh and Kiefer Sutherland... yeah...keep him. (We keep his pop tho m'kay?)

No no no. We're keeping Kevin Smith. You can have Celine Dion though. And we'll throw in Paris Hilton for good measure.

[LionsPride]

No no no. We're keeping Kevin Smith. You can have Celine Dion though. And we'll throw in Paris Hilton for good measure.

No no no no no no. You can keep Paris Hilton, preferably at the bottom of a deep well. We'll take care of this Celine issue.

You can have Kevin Smith for now, but I still get to go fishing with him. Jim Carrey talks too much.

[Lucid]

No no no no no no. You can keep Paris Hilton, preferably at the bottom of a deep well. We'll take care of this Celine issue.

You can have Kevin Smith for now, but I still get to go fishing with him. Jim Carrey talks too much.

Yes and advocates against vaccination, apparently. :(

Tell us of your socialized health care system please. We hear many conflicting reports down here.

[Rudy]

Yes and advocates against vaccination, apparently. :(

Really? Ugh. Yet another actor who I'll have to boycott the products of... though, when I think about it, not a big loss.

[Lucid]

Really? Ugh. Yet another actor who I'll have to boycott the products of... though, when I think about it, not a big loss.

Jenny McCarthy is a HUGE anti-vaccination spokes-person. Carey is more guilt by association... with his wife. So I'm pretty sure it's safe to say he is to.

[LionsPride]

Tell us of your socialized health care system please. We hear many conflicting reports down here.

The reason there is likely conflicting observations is each province is in charge of its own health care. We have federal regulations, but provincial systems. Also, depending on the province, your schedule for certain treatments might be faster or slower.

[Tyrant Soup]

Tell us of your socialized health care system please. We hear many conflicting reports down here.

It's nothing worth emulating. The service might be free, but the quality of care is diminishing rapidly. Waiting time for critical services are excessive. Some Canadians are going to the US for treatment rather than risk their health.

[Nemesis]

Heh. We whooped their ass once, we'll do it again if we need to ;)

We burnt down the Whitehouse once, we'll do it again if we need to ;)

We are just a commonwealth nation with England. So is Australia, India, and some other random nations. Being Canadian myself, I get the sense that we are just in it because we got a really cool looking coat of arms from the brits. The queen has power in case of some really weird random situations that will likely never happen. For the most part it seems like more of a dog and pony show than anything. A way for us to say "See, we're not Americans... eh".

[INTJohn]

Living here in the USA (er; now known as the Communist States of America but thats another topic, though for this same dept.), I have to comment on Canada being a "foreign" country. I live in a state that has a common border w/ Canada and have travelled there over the years for a variety of reasons. To me it was just going "next door" but now I need a F**King passport and all this other BS...... Canada has NEVER, NEVER, EVER been a foreign country to me: California, Texas, Florida, Mississippi, N. Carolina, etc, etc., etc., THOOSE are foreign countries to me. Not Canada; but now I repeat, I need an effing passport to go next door.

[Synamon]

Living here in the USA (er; now known as the Communist States of America but thats another topic, though for this same dept.), I have to comment on Canada being a "foreign" country. I live in a state that has a common border w/ Canada and have travelled there over the years for a variety of reasons. To me it was just going "next door" but now I need a F**King passport and all this other BS...... Canada has NEVER, NEVER, EVER been a foreign country to me: California, Texas, Florida, Mississippi, N. Carolina, etc, etc., etc., THOOSE are foreign countries to me. Not Canada; but now I repeat, I need an effing passport to go next door.
You need a passport because the US had a knee jerk reaction after 9/11 and passed this: The Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative (WHTI) was mandated by Congress in the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004 to strengthen border security and facilitate entry into the United States for citizens and legitimate international visitors. WHTI requirements for air travel took effect on January 23, 2007.
Canada lobbied hard for an exemption to it, but the US refused. Since we need a passport to travel to the US, you need one to come here too.

[Rudy]

Canada lobbied hard for an exemption to it, but the US refused. Since we need a passport to travel to the US, you need one to come here too.
Well, I can't deny that it's only fair. Besides, even if Canada didn't require a passport to get into, you'd still need it to get back into the U.S.

Stupid paranoia, screwing everything up...