Bitter cynical and a bit evil

[Sevs]

Hi guys when i cam eback on the us from uni i realized exactly how cynical and bitter I have become but what surprised me most was the fact that i seem to get some twisted joy out of it. I like seeing people doing stupid things and thinking they are stupid and one day they will "pay". Is this common to INTJs or am I just weird that sense. I kind of like the whole being independent not needing someone thing 95% of the time although then there are these 5% where i wished i was as ignorant and stupid as the majority of humanity.

Sevs

[blueback]

It might be healthier to simply be amused by their antics.

I think of most of the people in the world the same way I think of animals. They don't know any better. They are just doing what comes natrally, without the burden of rational thought, so you can't really damn them for acting according to their nature.

[Hdier]

For a lot of people, I agree with you, Blueback. It is a lot of times like watching a hamster run a wheel, or try to gnaw it's way out of a cage (though it isn't amusing if it succeeds).

[Paul V]

I only feel that in a vindictive way (when it happens to someone who has wronged me). If that person is an innocent bystander, then the Saviour Complex kicks in and I feel compassion. Except when they had it comming.

[Hdier]

Saviour Complex?

[NoahAddle]

Sevs, the word you're looking for is 'schadenfreude'. Origin: 1890-1895, Germany. One of my favorite words of all time. The Germans come up with some great words.

Online Etymology Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
schadenfreude

"malicious joy in the misfortunes of others," 1922, from Ger., lit. "damage-joy," from schaden "damage, harm, injury" (see scathe) + freude, from O.H.G. frewida "joy," from fro "happy," lit. "hopping for joy," from P.Gmc. *frawa- (see frolic).
"What a fearful thing is it that any language should have a word expressive of the pleasure which men feel at the calamities of others; for the existence of the word bears testimony to the existence of the thing. And yet in more than one such a word is found. ... In the Greek epikhairekakia, in the Germa

Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2001 Douglas Harper

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
scha·den·freu·de /ˈʃɑdnˌfrɔɪdə/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[shahd-n-froi-duh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun satisfaction or pleasure felt at someone else's misfortune.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1890–95; < G, equiv. to Schaden harm + Freude joy]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

[Max T]

Sevs, the word you're looking for is 'schadenfreude'. Origin: 1890-1895, Germany. One of my favorite words of all time. The Germans come up with some great words.

Online Etymology Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
schadenfreude

"malicious joy in the misfortunes of others," 1922, from Ger., lit. "damage-joy," from schaden "damage, harm, injury" (see scathe) + freude, from O.H.G. frewida "joy," from fro "happy," lit. "hopping for joy," from P.Gmc. *frawa- (see frolic).
"What a fearful thing is it that any language should have a word expressive of the pleasure which men feel at the calamities of others; for the existence of the word bears testimony to the existence of the thing. And yet in more than one such a word is found. ... In the Greek epikhairekakia, in the Germa

Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2001 Douglas Harper

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
scha·den·freu·de /ˈʃɑdnˌfrɔɪdə/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[shahd-n-froi-duh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun satisfaction or pleasure felt at someone else's misfortune.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1890–95; < G, equiv. to Schaden harm + Freude joy]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

Yes- 'schadenfreude' in Britain is roughly translated as "Solicitor" and in the US as "Lawyer".

:-)

[rwyatt365]

I felt that way (to some degree) when I was on the brink of bankrupcy - I felt it towards those that had (the "privileged ones"). I wished calamity on them, and reveled when I knew, or heard, of their failures. I don't get that "schadenfreude" (thanks NoahAddle) as much now, but I don't care to know how the rich spend their money (as reported in the popular news, and celeb TV). I don't really care how many diamonds are in P-Diddy's teeth.

[Max T]

I felt that way (to some degree) when I was on the brink of bankrupcy - I felt it towards those that had (the "privileged ones"). I wished calamity on them,

Yes, surely many of us have felt like that at a low point in our lives.
I did during a period of bereavement.

In all honesty Sevs though, if I were you I wouldn't want a schadenfreude attitude to endure over the years. Such negativity can subconsciously spiral out of control, as the negative outlook takes a grip on all aspects of your life.
Like operating at 60% of full potential.

[Paul V]

Saviour Complex?

A savior complex is the feeling that it's YOUR responsibility to save the world. Maybe not the entire world, but at least your little corner of it, or your friends, or family. In any case, you feel that YOU must save people. Although helping people and helping to save people is admirable, when it gets to the point of complex then it/you can become self destructive. Ultimately, you fail to save the world because saving the world is unrealistic.

[Solnath]

I'm like a shining, happyhappyjoyjoy ray of sunshine. I'm neither bitter, cynical or evil. Except when I feel like wearing my non-nihilist masks, in which case I either feel pity for everyone else or amusement. So, on the very basic level, I don't share your attitudes, but I once did and can say that schadenfreude is great fun.

[Sevs]

Thanks for your input guys.

Well i wouldn#t consider it "Schadenfreude" usually when I see people binge drinking or something i just think "little less competition for me in the job market".

What my question was really about is that i somehow enjoy feeling bitter and cynical even if others dont have misfortune. I also seem to endlessly enjoy end of world scenarios and stuff and i don't understand why.
Also I am kind of trying to become above all - in a sense that I am trying to become totally unemotional and above all human feelings and behaviour. It's a bit scary really. I feel most times social rituals and all are absolutely unecesary and just make life more difficult then it is meant to be. Unfortunately there come times where i wish nothing more than to "be normal".

[Wildflower]

I went through a period where stupidity and masochism in other people was hilariously funny to me in a very dark way. It is like one is either going to laugh or cry about it, if I started crying I would never stop. Now I just feel sort of sick about the way so many people seem to be. I have to say it was more fun to laugh about it all than feel sick about it.

[rasoirviolon]

Also I am kind of trying to become above all - in a sense that I am trying to become totally unemotional and above all human feelings and behaviour. It's a bit scary really. I feel most times social rituals and all are absolutely unecesary and just make life more difficult then it is meant to be.

Is it the ultimate INTJ's goal to be devoid of feeling? Lately I've been striving to abandon feeling and let logic dominate the choices I make. Is it worse to be 100% apathetic to everything around you than to feel bitterness or cynicism?

[blueback]

I am trying to become totally unemotional and above all human feelings and behaviour.

Well, as much as I respect the scale of your goal, I don't think you'll ever reach it.

Everything important humans do is because of emotions. Fear, anger and happiness explain pretty much everything that happens in the world.

I don't think you'll ever come up with a compelling, completely logical reason to live. What is there to live for without emotions? You wouldn't want to do anything because you wouldn't feel pride in doing it, or happy, or anything.

[Wildflower]

Also I am kind of trying to become above all - in a sense that I am trying to become totally unemotional and above all human feelings and behaviour.

I think if you accomplished that, your Fi would seperate off from the leadership of Te into a shadow function that would undermine you at the worst times. Better probably to know what you feel and why and then to make sure it stays the lackey of Te rather than getting out of control on its own.

[Hdier]

A savior complex is the feeling that it's YOUR responsibility to save the world. Maybe not the entire world, but at least your little corner of it, or your friends, or family. In any case, you feel that YOU must save people. Although helping people and helping to save people is admirable, when it gets to the point of complex then it/you can become self destructive. Ultimately, you fail to save the world because saving the world is unrealistic.

I want to save the people who are willing to help save themselves. I won't constantly carry them, just act as their crutch. Is this a Saviour Complex?

[robin.]

Well, as much as I respect the scale of your goal, I don't think you'll ever reach it.

Everything important humans do is because of emotions. Fear, anger and happiness explain pretty much everything that happens in the world.

I don't think you'll ever come up with a compelling, completely logical reason to live. What is there to live for without emotions? You wouldn't want to do anything because you wouldn't feel pride in doing it, or happy, or anything.I agree with this. Really, explain to me why you want to get rid of all of your emotions? If you think you'll be more efficient that way, will that really matter to you? You won't be able to feel happy about it.

I think that it's easy to try and "live up to your type" (not saying this is exactly what you're trying to do here) but personally, my goal is to develop all aspects of my personality. I was born with the qualities of an INTJ, but all types have great qualities, so why not try to develop them all? I think that is the real goal of self-development--to take what you've been given and try to expand upon it the best you can. Sure it's fun to joke about how we can be robots at times, but I strongly feel that is no way to live a life. Of course, I can't speak for everyone, but I can't understand why this would be favorable.

[Max T]

What is there to live for without emotions? You wouldn't want to do anything because you wouldn't feel pride in doing it, or happy, or anything.
If you think you'll be more efficient that way, will that really matter to you? You won't be able to feel happy about it.

Exactly- that's a paradox with being truly emotionless.
A world without friction would make it impossible to even get off the floor.
Likewise, if you had nil emotion, you would commit to nothing since no passion would drive you.

I think there's a second paradox in striving to be emotionless- you could actually end up merely internalising emotion or becoming even more emotional (via anger).

If an INTJ is temporarily feeling(!) at odds with the world, the very act of retreating back into a coldly-detached, more withdrawn state of mind is driven by your own emotion.
With deliberate emotional repression and repetitive failure to interact with others, the emotions are internalised into frustration that manifests.
So others will tell you you're emotionless, and you're making such an effort to restrain emotion, but actually you're still as emotional or more so than before.

Beside those two paradoxes to becoming a robot INTJ, underdeveloped F will limit achievement. The vast majority of big accomplishments involve other people.

I think a more productive way to increase rationality is to understand your emotions and so recognise when they're distorting thinking- an introductory psychology text on decision making is fascinating.

[danalaina]

i kinda used to think this way. i think i'm mellowing.

i've come to the realization that despite any pretensions to infallibility, i'm still occasionally retarded and often unintentionally silly. these days, when mean thoughts like that hit me, i try at least to remind myself how uncharitable it is.

glass houses, stones and whatnot. i hate sweeping up glass. i always miss a bit.

saying the above for others to read is tricky...i'm trying and failing to think of a way to make it sound less pompous and blowhard-y. you'll just have to take my word that i'm not really that much of an ass.

[Sevs]

Well ok i guess completly emotional is the wrong word. I think I get happiness through achieving things and id just like to achieve great things without being stopped by emotions. Its alkl the social emotions id like to get kind of rid of id still want passion for things that interest me and fully concentrate on those and thus be happy.
I don't know its hard to explain its just how i've felt all my life.

[The Many]

Hah. I'm probably the biggest cynic I've ever met... at least my humour and sarcasm is way beyond cynical. More seriously and on a deeper plane I am not particularly cynical though, in fact I tend to view life as something extremely beautiful. I only have a knack for seeing the humour in life and the undetected ironies that make up so much of people's motives and thoughts.

[Paul V]

I want to save the people who are willing to help save themselves. I won't constantly carry them, just act as their crutch. Is this a Saviour Complex?

No, because you have a limit. It's a complex when it becomes self-destructive.

Thank god I have a failsafe that prevents me from helping the people that will take advantage of me.

[Wildflower]

Well ok i guess completly emotional is the wrong word. I think I get happiness through achieving things and id just like to achieve great things without being stopped by emotions. Its alkl the social emotions id like to get kind of rid of id still want passion for things that interest me and fully concentrate on those and thus be happy.
I don't know its hard to explain its just how i've felt all my life.

By social emotions do you mean Fe and things like cant? From what you are saying, you would rather focus on Fi, which would be totally normal for INTJ.

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



Extraverted Feeling (Fe)

Extraverted Feeling builds a holistic web of connections within a localized matrix area. The function has strong awareness of social structure and may manifest as the drive to organize a family, community, school, etc. Extraverted Feelers are drawn to social institutions where they can bring order, harmony and cooperation.


Introverted Feeling (Fi)

This functions will establish holistic relationships spanning a wide matrix area. It gives deep meaning and significance to our perceptions and strives for a sense of harmony in the overall environment. Decisions are then based on personal values and ideals.

[Maximus]

Hey Sevs, sometimes I feel the same way, especially a few years ago. I'm also freaked out because you remind me of me and you also look like me (assuming that's you in the picture). Anyway, I try to keep a positive existentialist attitude towards life and that's the best I can suggest. Focusing on things you like doing and keeping close with your best friends is always good. Recently, I discovered the joys of reading. :cool:

Trust me, you don't want to be known as a "negative" person. I was for a while and it did not earn me any favors. I still bitch about stuff all the time but only to those who know me well enough to understand. Most people are completely turned off by it.

Like Max T said, you don't want it to take a hold of your life, or you won't be operating at full potential.

[Sevs]

Hi maximus. Yes that is me in the picture :-p.

Thanks for your input. I think i managed to sort things out alright as we just got hit with a ton of work to be done over christmas. Also I am going home soon so that should be nice.

Sevs

[Bossy Mom]

I may sometimes be bitter, but I don't want people to be stupid, they just sometimes are and I am embarrassed for them. One day last week I was transcribing a letter from shorthand and someone walked up to my desk, glanced at my notebook, and said, "I didn't know you knew Arabic!"

[blueeyedsusan]

I get angry but then after a time I just realize the person who is pissing me off is stupid and I let the universe take care of itself and the person stupid enough to attempt to hurt me.

[Ytterbium]

There's no better joy than malicious joy.

It's a saying from my mothertongue. It's quite right it seems. :p