The Buttefly Tempest and the Gentle Bricklayer

[Maayan]

It's the little problems in life. I lost my temper in an argument today. I want to learn from it so that I don't get worked up again.

Here's some information about me. I'm an ESFP. I'm seeing an ESTJ. It's not serious, but it's a nice learning experience. I like him enough for being generally game and reasonable and for having the benefit of experience to share with me. He knows things. It's just that I can't stand the way he communicates with me. I loathe getting into irrational arguments with him but I'm quite bad at avoiding getting drawn into them. It's like the blind leading the blind. ("I don't play well with Sensors. Whine.")

Leaning into my shadow functions doesn't make me any less prone to my personal fallacies; it just makes it easier for me to process some types of information. And, if someone gets too close to my Ego and makes a suspicious move, it will get evil and feckless and contemptible and strike back with an vicious eyestabbing swipe. Which is bad. I like two of my options: I learn how to deal with listening to him without flipping out, or else I accept having a mainly physical relationship.

I can't change other people, but I can change myself, and I'd like to ask you for your input regarding specific changes that I could make in my cognition. What can I do to reconcile my arrogance and be more accepting of the opinions of others? How can I become a better listener? What can I do to respond, other than lie or be defensive? How can I become less sensitive to personal criticism when it's delivered in a self-serving package of steaming shit by someone I'm trying to let myself care about? (That last one is big beef. It's worrisome now that he knows that he can make me tick.)

Some further points of interest:

- We get into an argument whenever I try to tell him what's going on inside my head. I get upset because I don't like that he dismisses my thoughts with a brush of the wrist. We get sucked into a cesspool of counter-arguments that never seems to end.

- I'm good enough at changing my ideas if someone rationally deconstructs them, or else presents the information to me in a way that I can consider it and absorb it myself. I don't like being "convinced" of something or having information presented in a sea of provocative garbage (rambling, idiotic chuckling, obvious defense mechanisms, personal insults -- and I'm extremely sensitive to these and need a quick and dirty coping mechanism, because he does not understand that he's doing it -- half-formed ideas stemming from unclear personal anecdotes, and no explicitly presented patterns). For me, it's like prospecting a field of emotional landmines. This point was brought to you by such poorly-worded critiques as, "I told you so." and "You're smart, but you're not God's gift." or "It can't be done. Get over it." They're silly now, but at the time, they hurt me more than they should. They insult my will and hit dangerously close to some cluster of bad memories of arguments with my father. (I don't know how to get over any of this.)

- He rambles. A lot of my frustration stems from this point. I'm arrogant and I think I know where he's going with something about ten seconds into the conversation. If I don't interrupt him, he thinks I need to hear more and goes on talking until my ears feel like they're going to fall off. But, if I cut in sharply and tell him that I've heard enough and that he needs to get to the point (or simply tell him what I think he's thinking and wait for him to correct me), he'll get defensive and ramble more. I want to handle myself more graciously while keeping the conversation moving along.

- I'm prone to many of the same fallacies when communicating my thoughts.

- In an argument, I speak very quickly and sharply. I'm getting the impression that this comes off as a personal attack (Intuitives handle my speech a lot better than Sensors; not that it's any excuse). If I am provoked enough, it does turn into a personal attack.

(Note: I was really angry and defensive when I wrote this.)

[jcb]

when trying to change things in a relationship, propose the changes while not in the heat of battle e.g. during a quiet time when you're not arguing etc let him know how you feel when he starts to ramble on.

most people think their voice is the sweetest thing they have ever heard. interrupting that sweet song all the time tells that person you don't value them enough to let them say their piece, no matter how long-winded. all the more reason to respect them enough to talk to them about it when not in the heat of battle.

regardless, i'm not sure as to why you're with someone who you look down upon.

other than that, it sounds like you need to grow up a little. some things have less to do with personality type and more to do with maturity.

i suppose i could wrap that last statement in cotton wool, but i am an intj after all. truth is gold.

[Maayan]

when trying to change things in a relationship, propose the changes while not in the heat of battle e.g. during a quiet time when you're not arguing etc let him know how you feel when he starts to ramble on.

This has been building up for weeks. He told me that it was okay to interrupt him and remind him to stop convincing me of every single step in his argument. I've told him half a dozen times already: offhandedly, tactfully, bluntly, arrogantly, angrily, pleadingly. It started as a nagging frustration and became acutely irritating. I tried to drop it but it got the better of me. Then, I blew up.


most people think their voice is the sweetest thing they have ever heard. interrupting that sweet song all the time tells that person you don't value them enough to let them say their piece, no matter how long-winded. all the more reason to respect them enough to talk to them about it when not in the heat of battle.

other than that, it sounds like you need to grow up a little. some things have less to do with personality type and more to do with maturity.


Hard truth. Thanks.

I like other things about him. I don't want to avoid having serious conversations with him. Looking down on him and getting rabidly defensive and unjustifiably arrogant is something that builds up over time from frustration and anger. The OP was way too harsh. I composed it while my anger was just dipping back down from the crescendo.

[Shaldan]

From a type description at: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

"ESTJs usually feel very strongly that they are right and that if everyone else would listen carefully to what the ESTJ has to say, then they would understand the way things really are, and the world would be a better place. Such a strong, confident self-image is an asset in many ways, but can also be a detriment in close interpersonal relationships, if the ESTJ's mate does not feel valued for their contributions as an individual. This is a potential pitfall for ESTJs, who should try to be aware of the fact that other people have things to offer, even if they do not exactly follow the ESTJ's way of thinking. If it's not possible to do this on a larger scale, the ESTJ should perhaps focus on this area with respect to their partner's contributions."

I recognize a lot of this in my father. He and my mother very often end up as you described whenever they have an argument or even just a discussion.


- He rambles. A lot of my frustration stems from this point. I'm arrogant and I think I know where he's going with something about ten seconds into the conversation. If I don't interrupt him, he thinks I need to hear more and goes on talking until my ears feel like they're going to fall off. But, if I cut in sharply and tell him that I've heard enough and that he needs to get to the point (or simply tell him what I think he's thinking and wait for him to correct me), he'll get defensive and ramble more. I want to handle myself more graciously while keeping the conversation moving along.

Oh yes. I remember once when I was younger and I needed help with a math problem doing my homework. All I wanted to know was how to get from one conclusion to the next but he insisted on explaining EVERYTHING as carefully as he could. Even the things that I thought were extremely obvious. It just made me feel useless and frustrated and I guess that's why I started crying.

[MadmanMSU]

It may just be that you two aren't right for each other. Everyone has their own way of communicating...and sometimes two people just don't meet on that particular wavelength. For example, there's a girl that I work with. We're both attracted to each other (it's obvious) and have a ton in common, but we just cannot connect because we have two very different forms of interpersonal communication. Conversely, the girl I'm dating now is amazing, we have an almost telepathic way of understanding each other.

That doesn't mean what you have with this guy isn't good or important. If nothing else, you can look at it as a learning situation, perhaps to learn more about your own style of communication and what works or doesn't work for you, or how to improve in some ways. But maybe you just have to accept the situation for what it is.

On a personal note: you sound like you should be with an NT. I'm not an expert at reading people, but your post sounds like that would be a better match for you. Which is sort of weird, I always thought NT's and SP's were polar opposites. But, to be fair, I know absolutely zilch about SP's, I always assumed that they were the "wild childs" of the MBTI and didn't merit any more thought (not trying to be mean, just honest!). Totally off topic, but what's it like to be an SP? Feel free to explain to me in a PM so as not to ruin your post ;)

[Maayan]

Replied. (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)





Maayan added to this post, 232 minutes and 54 seconds later...

P.S. Yup. I usually date NTs. As to why, I like the explanation proffered on this page (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.).





Maayan added to this post, 117 minutes and 30 seconds later...

To elaborate on the stroke of brilliance that gave rise to this distorted romantic tirade:

Y'all are right. It's easier when you're attracted to their defense system. As wrote an old lover (I'd date him, but he's off in the NL), "Out of politeness I will mask my self-confidence with arrogance."

Generally speaking, I decide to get to know people once they've proved to me that they're relevant (to me, which isn't actually that harsh a criteria). I wouldn't usually bother getting to know someone who's inadequate, and someone pushy and inflicted with asinine smugness is, by definition, inadequate. But, when I have a crush on someone, I turn into one of those irritating people who always want to get to know the other within the context of a relationship, and not before. Silly.

In theory, I chose to learn to discard my emotional prejudices and face facts. In practice, is very hard for me not to be patronizing or to imagine that there are even thoughts going on inside his head, even though I'm basically expressing my own ignorance and inadequacy.





Maayan added to this post, 988 minutes and 59 seconds later...

PUZZLE PIECE.

When someone's talking to me, and I don't listen, it's because I'm not ready to accept the information into my mental model yet. I might suddenly remember what the person said three weeks later, and then say, "Oh! I had no idea as to what they were going on about at the time, but this just made sense!" Something needs to shift in my model before I'm ready to process the information. One reason that I get annoyed with him is because he's trying to force it on my model when I simply don't understand how the information fits in. I resent him, because I know that I have the ability to go back into my memory and adjust, and I feel like he's overloading me and that it's going to mean more data to crunch through, which is just going to drag out the process of understanding. I like to come to conclusions on my own, for some reason. It's hard for me to just accept other people's conclusions at face value.

Or, more specifically, I don't understand how to distinguish between information that I'm ready to absorb and information that I want to reject. I just realized that I hang out with Ns because we're "on the same wavelength" -- it's easier for me to absorb information from them than it is from S-types. That's not to say that the S-types don't have anything interesting to say; it's just that I haven't learned how to pick through their speech, and it's easier for me just to cognitively reject the whole thing than to have faith that somewhere, there's a thought that I can use.

I also have a vague fear that if I take in information from them, I'll accidentally incorporate the wrong information into my model and it'll take me forever to figure out the problem. Which seems like I'm placing way too much value on my models being right. (And that's the end of the obvious conclusions. Time to switch strategies.) Does it matter if they're right, as long as I can choose to reject them? I feel like I'm a slave to my emotions and whims, and it's hard for me to distinguish between an impulsive desire and a rational thought, let alone decide which one I should indulge. I'm very badly equipped to do that. And the worst part is, things click a lot more easily when I'm working with myself, instead of against myself, but it's so counter-intuitive to do that when I'm trying to improve myself. Even when I know it's wrong. Thought folding in on itself. Damn it.

It's hard to have faith in myself when I have no immediate evidence that I'm on the right track, and lots of evidence to believe that I'm going to fail.

Also, what Kisai said in the crushes thread.

This would, by the way, give insight into my disorganization (I'm talking in the physical world, although there's probably truth to be drawn from this where my psyche is concerned). There's probably a better way of getting my shit together, yet ideally, I want it to be my own system. To have an organization system imposed on me without being able to customize it is hell.\

EDIT: This holds true if I don't trust the person to be completely reliable. Which makes sense. I don't want to blindly accept the law of someone I don't completely respect.

[LaoTzu]

without going into it ... I'll just say, I live in total defense mode. I have pushed away from the table so many times in life, and have whittled down my address-book to a single page.

I do so, because like you I can't deal with the thoughts of others... I don't know where to put them. I see them seeing the world through a different lens, and it really has no place in my eye. I can't concentrate enough on my own view, while hearing about how they see it... and I think that's why I resent a lot of people with high opinions.

From the sounds of it, you don't have as much respect for his intellect as you might want to look for in a mate... but... if you find someone with greater intellect, you'd probably start challenging your own opinions based on his... which... leads you into the same cesspool of self-doubt, just from a different vantage point.

I'd say... Don't shelter yourself like I am doing. I doubt you really could being an 'E', but whatever....
When it comes to people like him (and I know several) I tend to watch them working. A gentle pat on the back, "good thinking" comment and you're home free to figure it all out for yourself later. :) It might make things more livable.
You don't have to be condescending, just let them live in their own happy thoughts; and learn to lie about agreeing ;)

And for the love of God , the physical better be worth it :P

[tp6626]

He sounds like a twat, Mayaan. I recall a saying along the lines of "He who dismisses your soul is not worth listening to". I find that a very wise quote (whoever made it), and try to remember it when I am in that situation.

You seem very self-aware and well developed to me, from what I can tell from your posts (especially this one). I must admit they have actually stood out to me over the recent past as being exceptionally insightful and to the point - something I found surprising given you're an ESFP (I'd have had you pegged as an N if you hadn't posted your type).

If you're serious about changing yourself to cope with his bullshit, then I'd offer the following advice. What I usually do when someone is being an arse, is to try to understand why. What might cause them to act in that way. You could work on addressing that cause. My temptation is always to blame myself, thinking it must have been something that I'd done to trigger the behaviour in the other person. However, this might not actually be the case; they could just be a bastard (Why do I feel here like I struggle even myself to follow my own advice I'm listing here? Hehe).

Your situation sounds like a bit of a battle of wills though. Am I right in inferring that he's older than you?

[Maayan]

Thanks. You're not so bad yourself.

This one's easy, but just in case it isn't:

1. We're interacting in a very limited context. I'm getting the hang of the game; I haven't challenged myself to take on a task far outside my comfort zone and there's very little here to set me off.
2. Sensor ≠ Not Intuitive. The four-letter code says nothing about your relative position on the tandem or your ability to pull in either direction. I can force myself to flex my brain; over time, it feels more natural and less like pulling on an elastic. However, short of a serious change, it's easy for me to lapse into my old habits.
3. Or, you could argue that I'm a good performer.
4. Thank you again. I'm blushing.
5. Nope. Same age.
6. Some more relevant facts:

I'm not such a humble person. I'm used to dating hardcore intellectuals because I don't like being the brains behind the operation, and it's completely unnerving to find myself in the opposite position (with a daft ESTJ, no less). I can relax because I know that he can't believe that a shiny gold coin like me has fallen into his lap from God's big fat bag of Jew gold. He pursued me for a year and a half before I shrugged my shoulders and decided to give him a chance. We're not on a simple-step plan and we're going to drift apart eventually. As it stands, I'm using him as an outlet for some of my sensual and emotional needs (and this includes letting myself care about him), and he lets me do this because he thinks I'm hot and because he wants to help me. That's not a bad deal for me. I'm aware that I'm going to fail his expectations the moment he sets them*. Thus, I'm honest with him about not wanting a traditional relationship. I've told him very firmly to find other people to fulfill the rest of his needs and not to wait on me to change my mind, and that I'll let him know if something changes. I feel worse and worse about reminding him where I stand proud, but I'll force myself to do it because I want to be a moral person and treat him with respect.

That's the thing. There's no excuse for me being disrespectful. That I treated him with disrespect is a reflection of my flawed character; I want to tweak my moral being. I need to learn to hold my aim on something like this:

Sometimes the harder it is, or further out of reach, the better, as we're extremely into delayed gratification.

:)

*Look at that. I have intrinsic motivation after all. I'm not motivated by misplaced obligation. Huh.

[tp6626]

2. Sensor ≠ Not Intuitive. The four-letter code says nothing about your relative position on the tandem or your ability to pull in either direction. I can force myself to flex my brain; over time, it feels more natural and less like pulling on an elastic. However, short of a serious change, it's easy for me to lapse into my old habits.
You're right, they are indeed just preferences. But I'd have thought its quite an achievement to have such control over your preferences. It makes me want to learn where you get it from, or how you developed that ability. I admire people who are highly self aware and self-confident.

3. Or, you could argue that I'm a good performer.I don't feel that that is the case, but I could be wrong. As I said your posts have drawn my attention over the last few weeks.

4. Thank you again. I'm blushing.Hehe, nothing wrong with that!

5. Nope. Same age.My response: "Oh". Can't think of much else to add. You've surprised me again, hehe.

That's not a bad deal for me. I'm aware that I'm going to fail his expectations the moment he sets them*. Thus, I'm honest with him about not wanting a traditional relationship. I've told him very firmly to find other people to fulfill the rest of his needs and not to wait on me to change my mind, and that I'll let him know if something changes.
You do sound like you know what you're doing. I don't think I could be with someone I knew I wasn't going to stay with (or if I knew when the end was coming). I won't even decorate a house I'm staying in for a year or two, as it seems like too much wasted time / effort for me to invest for the short period. That's just a personal thing though; not everyone has the same desires / needs (I'm not judging, by the way).

I don't think I can really give any other advice, and suspect you don't need it (not from me anyway). As I said, you really seem to have your head screwed on, and know what you want and don't want.

As such, I'm sure you'll make the right choices. :) :thumbsup:

[Maayan]

God, no. I don't have my head screwed on straight.

Two important points:

1. It's easier for me to apply my natural thinking to some endeavors more than others.

2. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the possibility that I'm putting on a show. It's natural for me to pour my energy into pleasing other people. I put a lot of effort into writing intelligibly about my experiences, because I'm genuinely attracted to a lot of people on the forum, and because I know these darling people will surely reinforce my efforts with attention and correction. Your reinforcement builds satisfaction and gives me more energy. The process is cyclical and runs more smoothly with every turn.

My choice to play to my weakness isn't ideal, but it's not without merit. It's also very effective for tricking myself into introspecting.

[tp6626]

God, no. I don't have my head screwed on straight.Well not in your avatar, it looks slightly tilted to one side but that's by the by.

2. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the possibility that I'm putting on a show. It's natural for me to pour my energy into pleasing other people. I put a lot of effort into writing intelligibly about my experiences, because I'm genuinely attracted to a lot of people on the forum, and because I know these darling people will surely reinforce my efforts with attention and correction. Your reinforcement builds satisfaction and gives me more energy. The process is cyclical and runs more smoothly with every turn.What are you saying; you're putting forward a hollow façade aimed at pleasing me? That's very flattering, but if it is true, you must be very, very, very good at it. You'd have tricked me anyway! (and I'm usually very highly tuned, intuitively speaking)! :embarassed:

Are you saying that you naturally act very differently to how you come across here, and that here you are having to expend a lot of effort to come across as you do?

If so, what are you like when you're not trying?

My choice to play to my weakness isn't ideal, but it's not without merit. It's also very effective for tricking myself into introspecting.Do you realise that I become extremely intrigued (possibly obsessed :)) with people I don't understand or can't work out in this forum?

[Maayan]

What are you saying; you're putting forward a hollow façade aimed at pleasing me? That's very flattering, but if it is true, you must be very, very, very good at it. You'd have tricked me anyway! (and I'm usually very highly tuned, intuitively speaking)! :embarassed:

Are you saying that you naturally act very differently to how you come across here, and that here you are having to expend a lot of effort to come across as you do?


Not exactly. INTJf provides me with an outlet for developing the positive aspects of my Shadow, which requires a conscious effort. It's easier for me to do it over forum posts - it gives me time to respond so I can actually think, which is always handy, while simultaneously enabling me to fulfill some of my bigger desires.

"Introverted Intuition suggests that absolute meaning is an illusion--the result of having incomplete information." (Source (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.))


If so, what are you like when you're not trying?


Short Answer: You haven't seen my bad side. Again, we're interacting in a vacuum. I have an emotional and mercurial temperament. I don't have much control over it. Also, I'm good at fooling myself.

My choice to play to my weakness isn't ideal, but it's not without merit.

Funny. I didn't even notice my own double entendre until now.


Do you realise that I become extremely intrigued (possibly obsessed :)) with people I don't understand or can't work out in this forum?

What should I say? Thank you. I'm touched.

[tp6626]

"Introverted Intuition suggests that absolute meaning is an illusion--the result of having incomplete information." (Source (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.))Nice article (I read it all). Those are some pretty good descriptions that I hadn't heard before. I struggle to explain that type of thing to colleagues at work who are puzzled by me, but I might be able to use some of those examples.

It's just pretty hard to explain that you see and understand the signals that underlie a situation, and can infer things invisible to others from those signals. People at work often think I'm going about my work in odd ways, and when they ask why I'd doing something in particular, I can't explain it to them other than saying that because that way, the answer will shortly become clear to me. They think I'm crazy, but I get the results. So they become annoyed with me (must think I'm just lucky!).

Anyway, how are you finding trying to develop your Ni? It just comes naturally to me, and I'd imagine it is extremely difficult to do with conscious effort.

Short Answer: You haven't seen my bad side.But, you're well aware of it, where a lot of people aren't. That's a good thing, and is part of what makes me believe you'll sort it out yourself without too much help from anyone else (even me, hehe!).

[Maayan]

Not exactly. INTJf provides me with an outlet for developing the positive aspects of my Shadow, which requires a conscious effort. It's easier for me to do it over forum posts - it gives me time to respond so I can actually think, which is always handy, while simultaneously enabling me to fulfill some of my bigger desires.

Another illusion. Damn it.


It's just pretty hard to explain that you see and understand the signals that underlie a situation, and can infer things invisible to others from those signals. People at work often think I'm going about my work in odd ways, and when they ask why I'd doing something in particular, I can't explain it to them other than saying that because that way, the answer will shortly become clear to me. They think I'm crazy, but I get the results. So they become annoyed with me (must think I'm just lucky!).

Anyway, how are you finding trying to develop your Ni? It just comes naturally to me, and I'd imagine it is extremely difficult to do with conscious effort.


I do the same thing, only my Ni isn't as well-informed. A big part of it is cutting through my own bullshit. Essentially, I just write down whatever comes to mind and then I critically examine my own statements (I edit them until they're closer to something that I agree with; I don't think when I do this, I just act) and eventually tease out some meanings that are useful to me. It seems to be working-ish, although the process is still limited by me (or, more accurately, by anyone calling the shots -- that would account for the delusions incurred by those who follow the guidance of others). I can think I'm helping myself, but really, I wouldn't know the difference if it hit me on the head. I could just be shifting realities. Over and over.

oic.

[mikebob]

Originally Posted by Maayan View Post

Not exactly. INTJf provides me with an outlet for developing the positive aspects of my Shadow, which requires a conscious effort. It's easier for me to do it over forum posts - it gives me time to respond so I can actually think, which is always handy, while simultaneously enabling me to fulfill some of my bigger desires.

Another illusion. Damn it.


Is it an illusion? If it is, it's not unchangeable. Judging by the last few posts, I'd have to conclude that you'd have no trouble finding help in making it less illusory and more substantial.

[Maayan]

Is it an illusion? If it is, it's not unchangeable. Judging by the last few posts, I'd have to conclude that you'd have no trouble finding help in making it less illusory and more substantial.

I don't know. I had an alarming thought. The full(er) train of thought was, "How valid is my purported development if it occurs within the context of an interpretation that I've chosen for myself? How do I know that my development will apply more generally? I can continue to believe that it's substantial, but I might only be deluding myself further. After all, it's not the same as interacting with the real world (strictly in the sense that the variables are different; for example, in this context, I'm shielded from being provoked emotionally, and I like it that way, even though that element might be useful to include in the process). How do I know that my mind isn't tricking me into avoiding my problems? What are my reasons for trusting myself?" (Whoops. I might have added to it. It broke.)

I don't know what to make of that one.

[mikebob]

Ha! You're not tricking yourself at all if you know you're doing it. Maybe you're dragging things out a bit, but that's another story. Sadly, I haven't got any good advice on relationships ( I haven't even got a leg to stand on as far as that goes), but someone said once that you can be happy or you can be right, but not usually both. It seems true enough to me and every day I learn more about being happy when I'm not right. I dunno if that'll help, but it's the best I've got (I know, not much). I suspect though that if you're big enough to admit that you're avoiding something then you've also got the courage to do something about it if you try.

Look on the bright side! If Life was easy, it wouldn't be worth doing. It's NOT easy, and it IS worth doing, so it would seem that the amount of worth outweighs the amount of suck in the end. Good luck.





mikebob added to this post, 30 minutes and 35 seconds later...

It's upsetting not to know what to do next.

Dang right! When I'm lost somewhere in my own head I start with fixing the physical impediments to sorting things out (hunger, fatigue, etc.) and then make five or six different plans. I don't know how that applies to your way of thinking, but I have good success with it and it lets me feel proactive.

But, you're well aware of it, where a lot of people aren't. That's a good thing, and is part of what makes me believe you'll sort it out yourself without too much help from anyone else (even me, hehe!).

I agree with this (the guy in the picture has a pipe, so it's got to be truthy). I've seen people without even the sense to see that something isn't right. Last week I (and the entire restaurant) got to overhear a couple vigorously hating each other because they didn't have half a brain between them to see that something wasn't working. You're leagues ahead of that sort of mess, so keep pushing.

The last thing I'll say is that it's best to keep a strict limit on how critical one is of themselves. It's an absolute necessity to have enough courage to honestly face one's shortcomings, but then it's done it's work and needs to give place to something more constructive.

[tp6626]

I've just thought Mayaan. Have you tried meditation or mindfulness exercises? You say that you're trying to be more mindful, but that your own bullshit (your words not mine) keeps getting in the way.

I tried meditation a few years back, and it was very good in removing you from all the bullshit, allowing you to step back (out of yourself), and see clearly that none of it really matters.

How else can I describe it...

It removes / destroys the anaesthetic of familiarity (whilst you are meditating), and that in turn makes you far more aware of that anaesthetic (and able to overlook it), outside of meditation back in the real world.

That might help a bit??

[Rudy]

I've just read through this thread for the first time and what I suppose that I do not understand is, why are you with this guy? You list many reasons to not be with him, but none to be. If he's just an outlet that you're allowing yourself to care for temporarily, it doesn't seem likely that you couldn't find a better option.

Is it pity? That seems to contradict what little I know of your character so far, and yet I can't think of any other reason.

[Maayan]

Boys and girls, don't follow my lead.

If I were really smart, I would have kept my mouth shut and sucked his dick.

[Rudy]

I would have kept my mouth shut and sucked his dick.

I think you would have found that to be quite tricky.

[Maayan]

*snort* Wow. I walked right into that one.