Is Mitt Romney's religion an issue?

[rwyatt365]

Driving in to work today, in NPR, all the political talk was about Mitt Romney's (US Presidential Candidate) speech today addressing his Mormon religion and it's "impact" on his candidacy.

Is this an issue? (I'll post my personal position later)

[brewmaster]

It is to me simply because I think mormonism, as compared to all other religions, has to take the cake as being the most illogical load of crap I have ever encountered. All of the mormons I have met (which unfortunately is quite a few), have been most peculiarly over-nice, and naive. The over-nice thing makes me think they have ulterior motives, and therefore I don't trust them.

I think I would go into a bout of uncontrollable vomiting to see someone so fundamentally religious take over as head of the U.S.

[rwyatt365]

OK, since brewmaster is the only one to post (so far) I'll put up my views;

Personally, I think it's a load of unwashed horse manure! In a country that professes to be "the melting pot", that supposedly prides itself in the separation of church and state, and is the self-proclaimed home of religious tolerance, who gives a rat's ass what faith Mr. Romney practices (or any other candidate, for that matter). If we're such a "free society" over here, why should where the man goes to church (or even, if he went to church) matter one bit?

While listening to the radio broadcast I heard some weak-kneed commentator suggest that there is fear that Romney would be "influenced" somehow by the Mormon church. I would counter with the question, "Is anyone concerned about who influences the other candidates, or each and every other member of the US government?". People are braying about Romney – who is checking to see who has Mr. Bush by the short and curlies?

This kind of unmitigated obfuscation by political power mongers turns my stomach and reminds me why I think of average Americans as so many sheep.

[brewmaster]

Your position hinges on the assumption that he would honor the separation of church and state. In the constitution it says only that no law can be made concerning an establishment of religion. Many right-wingers consider this to mean that you do not have freedom from religion. (When bringing the point up to them that no religion is a religion the subject gets changed quite quickly).

I do not think that he would be influenced by the mormon church; I agree that is a weak argument. My postition stems from my desire not to see a fundamentalist as our president. Mormons are fundamentalists, therefore his religion matters to me. I think you can see where I have formed that opinion without articulating much more.

[rwyatt365]

Ok, I get your point and can understand why his religion might be of a concern to you, personally (I'm not sure about the "Mormons are fundamentalists" part, but I will concede that to you). However, my rant is about the inference that Mormon is an "unacceptable" faith (and a deeper inference that the Church of Latter Day Saints is not a religious community, but rather a cult of some sort). That somehow Baptists, Lutherans, and yes even Catholics are acceptable religions for a President while Mormons are not. This isn't predicated on Romney per se, nor whether he would honor the separation of church and state, but rather whether a particular religion is unsuitable for a President. That flies against the foundations that this country was built upon.

Of course, that won't be the first time!

[brewmaster]

However, my rant is about the inference that Mormon is an "unacceptable" faith (and a deeper inference that the Church of Latter Day Saints is not a religious community, but rather a cult of some sort). That somehow Baptists, Lutherans, and yes even Catholics are acceptable religions for a President while Mormons are not. This isn't predicated on Romney per se, nor whether he would honor the separation of church and state, but rather whether a particular religion is unsuitable for a President. That flies against the foundations that this country was built upon.

Of course, that won't be the first time!

I agree with that.

Off topic slightly: As far as I know mormons don't have one central figure, therefore not a cult. I was raised r. catholic, which does have a central figure
..........................................cult.

[rocksteady]

my problem is that religion is even a factor in a presidential race. There is blatant discrimination against atheists in this country.

I was raised Mormon and overall find that it's ok as far as religions go, people are creepily nice, but it's usually genuine (birds of a feather). Their Doctrine is all kinds of crazy, but that doesn't say much about their normal supporter. Many American families hit a point in their lives where it's time to "pick a religion" and them choosing mormon isnt the worst thing that could happen. We just have to get those same families to reject the notion of finding god and urge them to find themselves.

[Henry]

It is to me simply because I think mormonism, as compared to all other religions, has to take the cake as being the most illogical load of crap I have ever encountered. All of the mormons I have met (which unfortunately is quite a few), have been most peculiarly over-nice, and naive. The over-nice thing makes me think they have ulterior motives, and therefore I don't trust them.

I think I would go into a bout of uncontrollable vomiting to see someone so fundamentally religious take over as head of the U.S.

Anyone who thinks their god loses sleep over whether I masturbate belongs in the same category: to be pointed and laughed at.

The bible is a complete joke. The book of mormon is too. Mormons are crazy, but so are crazy catholics or protestants. They're all absurdely illogical if they view the myths of their faiths as historical refernces.

[LSB]

Mitt Romney is an opportunist who changes up his views every other week in order to gain advantages - I sincerely doubt he'd let his religion get in the way of his ambition for power. He'd probably burn the Book of Mormon and sell his mother to Chinese surgeons if that'd give him the presidency.

[rocksteady]

They're all absurdely illogical if they view the myths of their faiths as historical refernces.

Christian fundamentalists and Islamic Fundamentalists are so similar it's scary. How long till violence erupts here? I get more and more worried everyday. It's all good though, by the time something happens, I should have enough money saved up to escape if necessary :) (Survival instinct kicking in)

[ShaiGar]

I would like to see a Muslim President of the United States.

[rwyatt365]

I would like to see a Muslim President of the United States.
Now that would certainly get my attention! :thumbsup:

[WavesSootheMe]

I'm a bit young, but wasn't it a big deal when JFK, a catholic, was elected president? Anything that is not mainstream America will be questioned in an election. Perhaps the perception lies in how much the religion is a way of life. In my personal experience, I have known many non-practicing or "watered down" Catholics and Christians, but no Mormons of this type. Based on the infrastructure, it seems to be more difficult to be a non-practicing Mormon without being kicked out. Many of my friends in high school were Mormon and while their religion wasn't always an issue in our friendship, it certainly permeated their lives and mine as a result. On top of that, they placed such a big emphasis on conversion that I would find it hard to believe they'd adhere to a separation of church and state as President. These are all assumptions that may or may not be correct, but that can certainly influence America's view of a Mormon candidate for president.

In this race, there seems to be so much hype about this guy being Mormon and this guy being black and this guy being not a guy at all but a woman. In a race like that, stereotypes are going to play into people's decisions before they even take a look at what each candidate has to say.

My personal opinion? It shouldn't be an issue unless there are fundamental assumptions in his platform that are based on his religious beliefs. I'd be a hypocrite to argue for separation of church and state, but factor religion into my vote. Unfortunately, it's hard to place much value on what they say because, in a race for popularity, most candidates are going to put up facades and say what they think gives them the best chance to win over the majority regardless of what they actually think. I prefer to look back at what they've done thus far and see how well it matches up to what they're saying. As the cliche goes, actions speak louder than words.

I am certainly not your average American, but when I try to put myself in their shoes this thought occurs to me: If religion is an important part of my life and I have one candidate that's Mormon (not like me) and another that's some other denomination of Christian (more like me) and they're basically saying the same thing, why would I risk electing the person that may (even though he says he won't) make decisions based on beliefs I don't hold? The perceived cost of being misled by the not-like-me candidate is much greater, since I'm more likely to agree with decisions based on the beliefs of the like-me candidate. The thought is a bit oversimplified, but it seems to be the way that a large portion of the population thinks. The pros for the not-like-me candidate would have to not only outweigh the pros for the like-me candidate but also the perceived risk of the candidate not sticking to his/her word.

Do I like that things seem to function this way in my country of residence? Absolutely not. My political ideals put me in the minority. Voting to me is like pulling teeth. I will stop here before my post turns into a rant :)

[mielikki]

Nobody really pays attention to our Prime Minister's religion, or lack thereof, north of the 49th parallel.
Religion has no place in politics. Shouldn't they be separate issues?

[Tarrick]

The joy of freedom in voting is that people can vote how they want, for whatever reason they want. Telling people that they shouldn't care about religion in politics is probably about as effective as telling Idealists that facts are the only thing that matter.

[Epicurus]

I think politics in general wherever you go mostly has these ''issues'' to put up, to overflood the real issues. Its just like feminazism or anything else that puts on labels with this and that just because whatever fits with that label and then comes the pseudo-morals.

If it affects his politics well, you better take his word, arguments, and whatever research about him you can find in desiding if he will be good or bad on this and that.

[Hypomanic]

Mitt Romney's religion is a hot topic for my Mormon friend. Yes, I do think his religion appeals to many voters, so I think he might be using it strategically (he's being so public about it). While Utah may have his vote, I don't think he's going to win the election at all (so I'm not really too concerned about him). Also, I don't think religion is a problem. So long as it does not condemn anyone or effect my rights (I'm about as non-religious as it gets), then I'm good. The supreme court's duty is to overturn acts where the president is overstepping his boundaries to these protected rights. I assume this veto will inevitably happen no matter what religion the president may be.

[Henry]

I'm a bit young, but wasn't it a big deal when JFK, a catholic, was elected president? Anything that is not mainstream America will be questioned in an election. Perhaps the perception lies in how much the religion is a way of life. In my personal experience, I have known many non-practicing or "watered down" Catholics and Christians, but no Mormons of this type.


Yes, JFK was Catholic. JFK also stated that it was reason that would govern his presidency and that his faith would not really inform him in running affairs of state. Romney has said just the opposite. And, trust me on this one, I was raised Mormon, their values are *the* values, their perspectives *the* perspective, and their right and wrong *the* right and wrong.

I do hope it is Obama v Romney though, as Hillary v Guliani will polarize the country further.

[rwyatt365]

I wonder what the tone would be if an avowed atheist (or even an agnostic) ran for the presidency. Would that engender as much rhetoric?

If the question is whether Romney's religous beliefs would sway his presidency, would a candidate with no religous beliefs be "acceptable"?

[brewmaster]

rwyatt365, I think an atheist would make the population boil (unfortunately). I remember a recent poll that said something like 70% wanted the candidate to be at least somewhat religious, or something like that. (I don't remember the specifics)

[rocksteady]

rwyatt365, I think an atheist would make the population boil (unfortunately). I remember a recent poll that said something like 70% wanted the candidate to be at least somewhat religious, or something like that. (I don't remember the specifics)


I read somewhere that 30% of americans don't have religion. Thats a pretty significant amount of Americans that are underrepresented at the moment.

Interesting that you quote 70%, because that must be where the 30% figure I read came from. 30% of 300 million is 90 million, that's a lot! If in 10-20 years that moves to 50%, atheists are sooo taking over, for the benefit of humanity of course.

[lowtech redneck]

I read somewhere that 30% of americans don't have religion. Thats a pretty significant amount of Americans that are underrepresented at the moment.

Interesting that you quote 70%, because that must be where the 30% figure I read came from. 30% of 300 million is 90 million, that's a lot! If in 10-20 years that moves to 50%, atheists are sooo taking over, for the benefit of humanity of course.

I think its more like 15%.

[Jezebel]

Moved the posts that weren't about Mitt Romney to this thread (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.).

[Lucid]

Personally, I don't care what religion my politicians practice. What I care about is how much that religion dictates how he or she governs and whether those religious values will be pushed on me.

It seems that our current administration has been very influenced by religion, and given the current unpopularity of that administration, I think a lot of people may be wary of electing someone with strong religious beliefs. It seems that Romney is the only extremely religious person running (something we haven't seen from the Republican party in a long time). It speaks volumes about the popular opinion of religious politicians that the Republicans seem to be trying to distance themselves from the religious right.

Regarding whether the politician in question will try to push his or her religious views on to the rest of society.... Mormons are known for going door to door with pamphlets. They almost certainly have good intentions in doing this (trying to save people from hell), but it isn't viewed that way by most people.

Quite frankly, yes the Mormon beliefs strike me as being freaking silly, but then so do most religious beliefs, so the level of silliness of someone's beliefs doesn't really seem like an issue to me (and as far as I'm concerned, people can believe whatever they want, no matter how silly or illogical).

With regard to the question of whether Romney's presidency might be influenced by the Mormon Church, I agree with Rwyatt. People should be more worried about who's influencing all our politicians, not just the religious ones.

[Umbrex]

Tbh, any interference religion has in politics is a major problem as i see it. Although not an atheist i deeply oppose the institutionalized religios dogmas which are being forced over the heads of what ? 3/4's of the worlds population. These dogmas are manipulation, put in play for early social control.

Since mormons are, as i see it, perhaps the most indoctrinated of the "accepted" religions i would have a clear problem with Romneys religious affiliation, since i would question his background and ability to separate religious belief from rationality. Take the matter of abortion for one. The "pro-life-movement" is a scandal as i see it and i would have been fubar'ed if i lived in a society which banned abortion. Will Romney be able to see that abortion is needed in society or will he be inclined to ban it due to his religious beliefs ?

But on the other side u have an idiot like bush who once said he talked to god or something like it, so in fact he is no better.

I guess my point is this: Keep religious nutters out of politics, kthxbye.

[quizicsr]

Romney's Mormanism doesn't concern me. I suspect no one who runs for public office is who they say they are. What does concern me is that we might elect another white-knuckle drunk -- what AArs (and Martin Sheen) call an alcoholic who never received counseling.

[Danisty]

It seems that Romney is the only extremely religious person running (something we haven't seen from the Republican party in a long time). It speaks volumes about the popular opinion of religious politicians that the Republicans seem to be trying to distance themselves from the religious right. There's Huckabee and he scares me much more than Romney.

[kimba]

I don't see how any political figure has or can "force" his religious beliefs on the American people. Separation of church and state is basically the government can't set up a religion and say everyone has to practice this religion. And the government can't tell religions what they can and can not believe/practice. That's it.

All other issues are not "religious". The big ones - homosexuality, abortion, immigration. Any view on these issues is not equivalent to setting up a religion and telling the Americans they must practice it and believe it. You can't force anyone to believe anything. That is impossible.

So what if Mitt Romney's a Mormon or Obama's a Congregationalist or Clinton is a Methodist or Huckabee's a Baptist. None of them can get in office and say you must be a Mormon or whatever.

[Oica]

Maybe Romney's religion isnt an issue as to his performance should he be elected, but more of an issue of the view of society. As far as I know, mormons are legendary for their honesty and overall cheerfulness and infamous for a strange past. I also know they are one of the most misunderstood religions of any.

The issue that will rise is what the image of mormons, true or false, can or will be used to do.

(to be honest, i trust romney over clinton. Huckabee made an offkey remark, obama i dont know much about other than what ive heard about the resource for his shame that was his drug use)

[This post IS hard to read isnt it >_< ]