Sex doesn't buy everything (no, not another "non-virgin" thread)

[Samoan Corleone]

There was another thread where I wrote the followig, and have since felt compelled to start this spinoff thread.

Ugh, I HATE how there are a certain number of men who give the rest of us a bad name, whose behaviour causes most girls to generalise and label us all sex-hungry animals! We're not all like that, trust me. As a straight male, I actually used to get offended in my mid-teens when girls thought they could get me to do what they wanted by flexing a bit of sex appeal, it was an insult to my intelligence and integrity!

Y'all empathise?!

[playthestatic]

I'm eighteen and there are memories still fresh in my mind of boys from my school who'd seemingly lose all ability to think with their brains when presented with anything remotely related to sex. I used to feel disadvantaged because I just wasn't comfortable with 'flexing a bit of sex appeal' to get what I wanted while certain other girls thought nothing of it, but I've quickly recognized that I don't really want to present myself as such, and I can get what I want without having to do that - anything that requires me to probably isn't worth wanting anyway.

Of course, I'm sure that this mentality is generally more prevalent among teenage boys, plus, not all men think this way. I'm hoping not to have to abandon my faith in the world's male population. :laugh:

[BostonIan]

I somewhat empathize, but I can't say their generalization doesn't apply to me. Attractive women do get a completely unnecessary amount of kindness and consideration out of me, and my intelligence and integrity both do seem to drop in their company. I assume, at some primal level, this is because I impelled to mate with them.

[Vagrant]

I remember that stereotype, and I hated it. Every time a girl flexed her "sex appeal" I would immediately become suspicious, knowing she was trying to get something out of me, because no girl was ever that straightforward with me, ever. If you just asked for something that wasn't too big of a deal, I'd give it to you. But trying to trick me into doing something made me less likely to give it, especially if the "sex appeal" trick was abused. I'm pretty sure it actually scared a couple of attractive girls that it simply didn't work on me.

Oh, and I've always loathed girls who wore slutty clothing in public. They gain no respect from me.

[Samoan Corleone]

I'm eighteen and there are memories still fresh in my mind of boys from my school who'd seemingly lose all ability to think with their brains when presented with anything remotely related to sex. I used to feel disadvantaged because I just wasn't comfortable with 'flexing a bit of sex appeal' to get what I wanted while certain other girls thought nothing of it, but I've quickly recognized that I don't really want to present myself as such, and I can get what I want without having to do that - anything that requires me to probably isn't worth wanting anyway.

Of course, I'm sure that this mentality is generally more prevalent among teenage boys, plus, not all men think this way. I'm hoping not to have to abandon my faith in the world's male population. :laugh:

I'm nineteen (don't be fooled by the creepy Sopranos avatar) and I still remember this group activity we took part in at high school, but me and my best friend didn't like the way it was going (and we had to skip English class!), so we weren't exactly active participants. Chick A had a grievance with us, so she went and complained to Chick B, who said to Chick A "just offer to blow one of them, ok!"

I've got a lot of close friends who are girls, and they're who keep my faith in the world's female population alive. :laugh:


I somewhat empathize, but I can't say their generalization doesn't apply to me. Attractive women do get a completely unnecessary amount of kindness and consideration out of me, and my intelligence and integrity both do seem to drop in their company. I assume, at some primal level, this is because I impelled to mate with them.

Well, I can't blame you, I mean, that kind of behaviour would make you normal. Guys like me are the odd ones.


I remember that stereotype, and I hated it. Every time a girl flexed her "sex appeal" I would immediately become suspicious, knowing she was trying to get something out of me, because no girl was ever that straightforward with me, ever. If you just asked for something that wasn't too big of a deal, I'd give it to you. But trying to trick me into doing something made me less likely to give it, especially if the "sex appeal" trick was abused. I'm pretty sure it actually scared a couple of attractive girls that it simply didn't work on me.

Oh, and I've always loathed girls who wore slutty clothing in public. They gain no respect from me.

Yes, with the flexing of the sex appeal to acquire small things. It's like, they don't have to unbutton their blouses if they wanna know what time it is.


I was watching Criminal Minds, or it might have been Gone Without A Trace, but anyway this boy went missing in the mall, and it turned out that he stole from a jewellery store for some girl. They then asked his father if he knew and the father said something along the lines of "he was trying to impress a girl he liked. At his age I would've done the same." Oh, what is wrong with society? Is this behaviour considered acceptable if in the name of (most likely unrequited) love?!

I also know that there are girls out there who get used by guys who they consider attractive. Are there any thoughts on that as well?

[ElstonGunn]

I don't have any interest in sex with any woman with whom I don't have a very strong commitment. That means I'm gay and/or a loser, right? :p

I can't recall a woman ever using sex appeal to get something from me. I'm not sure if that's because I have a bad memory, or if I just didn't notice it at the time, or if women (for whatever reason) don't use that trick on me.

[nightfire]

I somewhat empathize, but I can't say their generalization doesn't apply to me. Attractive women do get a completely unnecessary amount of kindness and consideration out of me, and my intelligence and integrity both do seem to drop in their company. I assume, at some primal level, this is because I impelled to mate with them.

I concur. All that hard-wiring takes quite a lot of conscious effort (or experience) to overcome.

On the other hand, it all comes down to what you consider attractive. I personally am quite selective (not that different from the common viewpoint, just more limited) in this matter and therefore the majority of girls that think they are attractive enough to attempt such things usually fail. If that happens, it goes exactly as Vagrant described.

[Josephine1012]

I have very little respect for women who act as if there is something to be gained by helping them. I think it's always very noticeably fake, and I'm always amazed when it works!

On the other hand, men tend to assume that if they fawn all over you they will get somewhere. I do my best not to be misleading with anyone, but I am aware that sometimes the amount of helpfulness I get is related to my physical attractiveness. There is nothing I can do about it, but if someone wants to be helpful without any indication from me that will be profitable to them in some way, it is their choice to do so.

As a side note, I'm less likely to be attracted to a guy who treats me differently from other people based on the physical without knowing anything about me.

[iseesound]

Ha, this also happens in the lesbian world.

I'm like ElstonGunn when it comes to sleeping with women. I can't just be swooned and all of a sudden BAM they're in my bed.

Some straight women who know I'm gay have 'flexed their sex appeal' on me when they wanted something out of the ordinary. It's like "wow, can't you just ask normally? Now you can't have it..."

[ElstonGunn]

Some straight women who know I'm gay have 'flexed their sex appeal' on me when they wanted something out of the ordinary. It's like "wow, can't you just ask normally? Now you can't have it..."

Yeah, I think that if I did notice a woman trying to get me to do something by deliberately showing her sex appeal, there would be a good chance that I'd refuse to do it, just to spite her. If she asked normally, yeah, sure, I'll do it, but not if she tried to manipulate me like that.

[blueback]

Girls "flex their sex" because it tends to work. Just like guys spend money on girls because it tends to work.

I think that, in regards to the people it doesn't work on, you aren't responding to the act itself. I think you are responding to what the act indicates about the person performing it.

Both men who try to buy everything and women who try to seduce everything are indicating that they don't value themselves. They don't think they are capable of getting what they want, or of dealing with themselves if they don't get what they want, so they will prostrate themselves to get what they want. If a person has such a low opinion of themselves that they don't think they could handle not getting what they want, then they probably are a pretty worthless person.

I think that most people don't see that deeply into the action. They see the action itself, not what is inspiring it. We tend to see more deeply into people's motivational structure so we are responding to more subtle things.

For example, to me there would be a big difference between a girl flaunting her sexuality and at the same time making it obvious that she takes herself seriously. Some girls just know that they're sexy and they like to enjoy it. If they can do it with full self-awareness, and not out of desperation, then I will respond to them positively because I see that they have high self-confidence. If they flaunt their sexuality and it seems like they are doing it because it's all they have, then I see that and I respond to them negatively, simply because I don't want to associate with worthless people. A person who could only see the surface would miss the distinction between how I responded in each situation, and would be confused.

[Autoptic]

Specifically at my school, the girls weren't allowed to wear anything shorter than knee length culottes, so that wasn't an issue, and I think I creep most of the girls here out, and they don't want to get stalked; then, there's that girl that might be telling people I'm gay, but, otherwise, I agree.:thinking: I told you I was weird...

Every time a girl flexed her "sex appeal" I would immediately become suspicious, knowing she was trying to get something out of me, because no girl was ever that straightforward with me, ever.

Yeah, I think that if I did notice a woman trying to get me to do something by deliberately showing her sex appeal, there would be a good chance that I'd refuse to do it, just to spite her.

All that she'd be doing is rubbing my sexual frustration in my face.

[Samoan Corleone]

Ha, this also happens in the lesbian world.

I'm like ElstonGunn when it comes to sleeping with women. I can't just be swooned and all of a sudden BAM they're in my bed.

Some straight women who know I'm gay have 'flexed their sex appeal' on me when they wanted something out of the ordinary. It's like "wow, can't you just ask normally? Now you can't have it..."

That's odd. These woman are straight, so I wonder what they would do if you "responded" to their "flexing of sex appeal."

[Acextreme]

Hmmm, I feel similarly with the OP; I hate girls who do that. But I will still help them, as I would other people too. But that's that, I won't go any further since I have no interest in them, and I won't do it just because they are pretty. So I guess that kind of surprised them. I know of someone who is attempting that to me now, but I plain ignored her since I know she's trying to leverage on my intelligence; I only help her to a point where I think it's appropriate and not any further, treating her just like every other person. After helping her, I will just ignore her and go back with doing what I am doing, and not even looking at her. So I guess she must be wondering why so strange, hah...

And if anything, girls who try that too hard actually have the opposite effect on me. I will be like trying to keep them a distance from me, with these words actually shooting past my thoughts - "what the hell, get the hell off of me, stop being so touchy or flirty with me". Can't help it, they will appear too fake to me.

[Dresha]

Honestly, it's tough to relate when I am in fact sex-hungry. I'm not going to lie. As a matter of fact, it's been extremely difficult for me to form platonic relationships with women (attractive ones anyway). With that being said, I don't think it makes me any less moral or "worse" than anyone else.

As it pertains to women who try to "shake what their mommaz gave 'em" to get what they want, I don't play that game. I may be "sex hungry", but I'm not a sucker.

[Autoptic]

Honestly, it's tough to relate when I am in fact sex-hungry. I'm not going to lie. As a matter of fact, it's been extremely difficult for me to form platonic relationships with women (attractive ones anyway). With that being said, I don't think it makes me any less moral or "worse" than anyone else.

Are you saying they actually have sex with you, or are you just hoping?

[Dresha]

Are you saying they actually have sex with you, or are you just hoping?


From the lurking that I've done on this forum before I joined and from the obviousness of it all, most INTJs don't get laid too often. While I've had "dry spells", I am not one of those INTJs.

[rwyatt365]

"Dry", or "Wet" doesn't matter. This doesn't seem to me to be a case of wanting, or not wanting sex - but rather a discussion of using sexuality as a means of obtaining favor.

My sense of the matter is that people do it because it works. There are enough men and women out there that flaunt their sexuality to get what they want. The unfortunate thing is that, all to often, they DO get what they want because there are plenty of (what I deem to be) weak willed people that can't seem to resist.

[Deliberator]

Personally I don't tend to think of men as sex-animals who will do whatever I want if I thrust my cleavage at them.
Then again, I'm an INTJ.
And I was raised uber-Christian.
And I was homeschooled.

[WyohKnott]

I have very little respect for women who act as if there is something to be gained by helping them. I think it's always very noticeably fake, and I'm always amazed when it works!

On the other hand, men tend to assume that if they fawn all over you they will get somewhere. I do my best not to be misleading with anyone, but I am aware that sometimes the amount of helpfulness I get is related to my physical attractiveness. There is nothing I can do about it, but if someone wants to be helpful without any indication from me that will be profitable to them in some way, it is their choice to do so.

As a side note, I'm less likely to be attracted to a guy who treats me differently from other people based on the physical without knowing anything about me.

I agree with all of the above. Guys are noticeably more helpful when I put a small amount of effort into my appearance, but I would never intentionally use that to my advantage, besides perhaps smiling at them (in a normal, friendly way) if it were really necessary.


And I was homeschooled.

Cool, me too :)

[Algol]

This is not only about taking advantage of others or being taken advantage of; people take things too seriously and forget that subtle flirting can be a social grace and quite fun as a game too. There does not always have to be a selfish intent behind it.

[Shinqui]

Y'all empathise?!

Nope, first off, just because a girl "flexes her sex appeal" it doesn't mean that your going to get any if you comply. Second, as a man who enjoys women immensely, the flirting, or flexing of sex appeal, or feminine wiles (to quote another thread) just make life a lot more interesting to me.

You see, theres this game some of us play, where women act like everyone wants them, and men play along. It's an amusing game, it makes life less dreary.

Peace

[Phyconaut]

This is not only about taking advantage of others or being taken advantage of; people take things too seriously and forget that subtle flirting can be a social grace and quite fun as a game too. There does not always have to be a selfish intent behind it.

yes that is true.

I know i always got irritated at people for not getting to the point when talking.

also being gay gives me alot of fun when women try to flex their sex appeal and it has no impact what so ever it gets funny when they get frustrated that im not being affected.

but hot guys on the other hand i can usually keep my head till the conversation starts drifting.

[amyleanne]

In a world of silly, shallow, sex-obsessed people, I've found myself faking lots of things to get what I want. I've faked sexual interest, extroversion, Christianity, sympathy, even emotional weakness (when I'm anything but). I'm a waitress so my entire personality at work is faked as a means to an end, and I feel no shame. I realize that this is manipulative but I generally care very little for those who are subject to being manipulated. I admire a person who can see through my behavior and repel it. A woman's body is hers to do with as she pleases, and if a man feels slighted having been teased into compliance he should re-evaluate his own personal weaknesses and not be bitter--after all, men have the upper hand physically 90% of the time (statistic pulled out of ass) and we like to exercise our limited means of physical power occasionally. Are we not all this selfish? Do men not manipulate women to get sex?





amyleanne added to this post, 2 minutes and 7 seconds later...

What can I get flaunting INTJ-ness? And how long will I have to wait for it?

[Samoan Corleone]

In a world of silly, shallow, sex-obsessed people, I've found myself faking lots of things to get what I want. I've faked sexual interest, extroversion, Christianity, sympathy, even emotional weakness (when I'm anything but). I'm a waitress so my entire personality at work is faked as a means to an end, and I feel no shame. I realize that this is manipulative but I generally care very little for those who are subject to being manipulated. I admire a person who can see through my behavior and repel it. A woman's body is hers to do with as she pleases, and if a man feels slighted having been teased into compliance he should re-evaluate his own personal weaknesses and not be bitter--after all, men have the upper hand physically 90% of the time (statistic pulled out of ass) and we like to exercise our limited means of physical power occasionally. Are we not all this selfish? Do men not manipulate women to get sex?





amyleanne added to this post, 2 minutes and 7 seconds later...

What can I get flaunting INTJ-ness? And how long will I have to wait for it?

Well, the guys who would fall for your charms get what they deserve then. Also, up above somewhere I worte about anyone's thoughts on males using sex as a means to obtain whatever, so thank you for contributing yours. I know that this stuff happens both ways.

As for your latter question, a girl I'm "seeing" (too strong a word) at the moment seems to be intrigued by my INTJ ways. There are millions of flavours of ice cream in the world, you can bet each of them is liked by at least one person. The wait is dependant on different variables I have no knowledge of.

[amyleanne]

I have more.

I am sure that if I were fortunate enough to come across an INTJ male I would admire him and would not--could not successfully--use these tactics on him even if I tried. Sadly I rarely encounter anyone remotely like myself and tend to devalue my own INTJ-ness because I've been mostly alienated because of it. I may have come off whorish when in actuality I'm a virgin. I'm not really defending shamelessly flaunting one's sexuality but the double standard does irk me. Women are generally valued for their looks--pressured into dumbing down and looking hot--yet they are constantly made to feel ashamed of themselves. We're either too ugly or too slutty...overlooked for not having boobs and punished for having them.

Anyway I realize your original point was that not all men are the sex-hungry pigs, but the ones who are leave a lasting impression on us strong enough to destroy our trust in men early on. About 1 in 4 women are raped or sexually assaulted (not making this up) and most of us are pretty fucked up from it and at some point we get together and start to generalize. I'd love to meet a man who is gentle and sensitive and not completely penis-oriented but...well, I haven't. Judging from my (admittedly limited) experience, they are about as rare as an INTJ. I hate that these men have given others a bad name. I'm sure I'd know a good one if I found him, but I'd still be physically terrified of him, and I still might want to get a little power over him in any way I possibly could.

I don't think I've ever seen a man use sex to get something...is that even possible? Sex is so much easier to get if you're female...you basically get your pick, and no man is really going to hold it over your head. But which do you think is worse...a woman mustering up some cleavage to get ahead or a man saying "I love you" when he doesn't mean it to get head?

[Samoan Corleone]

I have more.

I am sure that if I were fortunate enough to come across an INTJ male I would admire him and would not--could not successfully--use these tactics on him even if I tried. Sadly I rarely encounter anyone remotely like myself and tend to devalue my own INTJ-ness because I've been mostly alienated because of it. I may have come off whorish when in actuality I'm a virgin. I'm not really defending shamelessly flaunting one's sexuality but the double standard does irk me. Women are generally valued for their looks--pressured into dumbing down and looking hot--yet they are constantly made to feel ashamed of themselves. We're either too ugly or too slutty...overlooked for not having boobs and punished for having them.

Yes, I'm aware that there's a double standard. There's also a double standard concerning men. Most women claim they want a sensitive kind of guy, but they then grow tired of the sensitive man, because he grows to be a sissy in their eyes.


Anyway I realize your original point was that not all men are the sex-hungry pigs, but the ones who are leave a lasting impression on us strong enough to destroy our trust in men early on. About 1 in 4 women are raped or sexually assaulted (not making this up) and most of us are pretty fucked up from it and at some point we get together and start to generalize. I'd love to meet a man who is gentle and sensitive and not completely penis-oriented but...well, I haven't. Judging from my (admittedly limited) experience, they are about as rare as an INTJ. I hate that these men have given others a bad name. I'm sure I'd know a good one if I found him, but I'd still be physically terrified of him, and I still might want to get a little power over him in any way I possibly could.

Well, that's a chiche isn't it? I'm speaking from an observer's point of view, and you're a female so you'd know more about how a girl's mind works and all, but don't you usually say that you want the "gentle, sensitive" type and end up pursuing the complete opposite? The generalisation wasn't intended and, again, you're the female so you'd know more about this than I do.

As for the men who leave such impressions, they deserve all the STDs and unplanned children they get. Trust me, everyone gets theirs in the end.


I don't think I've ever seen a man use sex to get something...is that even possible? Sex is so much easier to get if you're female...you basically get your pick, and no man is really going to hold it over your head. But which do you think is worse...a woman mustering up some cleavage to get ahead or a man saying "I love you" when he doesn't mean it to get head?

They're both as bad as each other. They're playing with other peoples' desires. They're both using some sort of incentive to get what they want. In the end, the people stupid enough to fall for this stuff get what they deserve, as do the incentive users (girl with cleavage gets stalked by whatever guy she took advantage of, guy who gets head is labelled by all other chicks as a "manwhore" and is internationally blacklisted by all females, even after he cleans up his act).

[amyleanne]

Hmmm....well of course I can't speak for all women, but I certainly want a man who is gentle and sensitive to me but manly enough to everyone else. I mean not a complete dick in public but if hes going around reciting poetry and picking flowers when I'm not around then it wouldn't be as special when he did it for me. I would like to feel like his gentleness is reserved for me. I hear a lot of guys say that "girls like assholes" and I think a lot of guys play the part of the asshole because of this very belief (and scare girls off and experience the same frustration you've just expressed to me...how to win?) So yeah...don't be one type or other--rather know when to act one way and when to act another. I guess women are tricky. I hope this helps.

I still don't think the two scenarios I proposed are equally bad. Both involve playing with other people's desires but I think the second scenario is worse simply because of the outcome. Scenario 1: girl gets what she wants, guy gets blue balls or whatever strange thing happens to guys to make them mad when they get teased...fuck I don't know. Scenario 2: Guy gets sex, girl gets emotionally crushed and forever thinks men are sex-hungry pigs. She goes and vents her frustration on INTJ forum to a guy who just vented his frustration over scenario 1 and they forever misunderstand each other. =)

[Harmony]

Okay, my brain is always thinking about different stuff... And I know we all have habits we do subconsciously... So, in no way am I saying I believe this way... But the thought occurred to me...

Is it possible that some of these girls "flex the sex appeal" out of habit... Or without even realizing they are doing it? Perhaps their mother used it on their father, a salesman, or a repair man... And if they witnessed it happening on a daily basis it could easily be picked up as normal acceptable behavior.

I think I'm guilty of using the "tomboy" in me at times... But I'm not sure I've ever gained much from it, other than friendships. :p

[Samoan Corleone]

Hmmm....well of course I can't speak for all women, but I certainly want a man who is gentle and sensitive to me but manly enough to everyone else. I mean not a complete dick in public but if hes going around reciting poetry and picking flowers when I'm not around then it wouldn't be as special when he did it for me. I would like to feel like his gentleness is reserved for me. I hear a lot of guys say that "girls like assholes" and I think a lot of guys play the part of the asshole because of this very belief (and scare girls off and experience the same frustration you've just expressed to me...how to win?) So yeah...don't be one type or other--rather know when to act one way and when to act another. I guess women are tricky. I hope this helps.

Well I'm not exactly an asshole, but not too much of a nice guy either. I'm genuinely polite and nice to most people, but not a doormat. I'd stand up to people who would intentionally worng me, and such. It seems to be a working formula, not just in relationships of a romantic nature, but also with the friends I've made and at most anything that requires being sociable. I think most women want two thingsin regards to a certain quality, like you've just stated. You say women are tricky, that's something we can agree on. :laugh:


I still don't think the two scenarios I proposed are equally bad. Both involve playing with other people's desires but I think the second scenario is worse simply because of the outcome. Scenario 1: girl gets what she wants, guy gets blue balls or whatever strange thing happens to guys to make them mad when they get teased...fuck I don't know. Scenario 2: Guy gets sex, girl gets emotionally crushed and forever thinks men are sex-hungry pigs. She goes and vents her frustration on INTJ forum to a guy who just vented his frustration over scenario 1 and they forever misunderstand each other. =)

Well, no, how do you know that the Scenario 1 guy didn't genuinely like the girl? He might've envisioned the two of them having a future, and whatnot, next thing he knows, "hey, thanks for the gas. I'm driving far, far, away and we'll never see each other again." My frustration comes from personal experience. I can't say I've ever fallen victim to this sexual witchcraft, but seeing oher guys prove themsleves to be easy always frustrates me. I always try to tell them "Every man is born with two heads, think with the one on your shoulders."

Wouldn't you know it? Just as Scenario 1 has personal significance to me, Scenario 2 has personal significance to you? Well, I'm sorry to hear that, seriously. Yes, the two of us shall forever continue to misunderstand each other, but that's how some pairs of people funtion. I enjoy the company of people I can argue with, it shows strength, and they're much more fun than people who would rather bite their tongue and nod their head.

Well, that guy in Scenario 2 (I'm assuming he actually exists) and his kind are unevolved. They look down on guys like me because they think there's something wrong with not wanting to fuck everything that breathes, and guys like me look down on them for having weak morals and living for their dicks. Two types of guys looking down on each other, how inconceivable. I'll tell you what's very conceivable though? That guy's future unplanned kids! :laugh:





Samoan Corleone added to this post, 3 minutes and 9 seconds later...

Okay, my brain is always thinking about different stuff... And I know we all have habits we do subconsciously... So, in no way am I saying I believe this way... But the thought occurred to me...

Is it possible that some of these girls "flex the sex appeal" out of habit... Or without even realizing they are doing it? Perhaps their mother used it on their father, a salesman, or a repair man... And if they witnessed it happening on a daily basis it could easily be picked up as normal acceptable behavior.

I think I'm guilty of using the "tomboy" in me at times... But I'm not sure I've ever gained much from it, other than friendships. :p

Possibly, it's proven to be quite effective in history so, perhaps it's a learnt behaviour. I don't know, I can only speak from the mind of a male. Either way, it's corrupt. :)

Being a tomboy is fine, it's not like you're using some sort of sexual incentive to obtain this and that.

[Harmony]

Possibly, it's proven to be quite effective in history so, perhaps it's a learnt behaviour. I don't know, I can only speak from the mind of a male. Either way, it's corrupt. :)

Being a tomboy is fine, it's not like you're using some sort of sexual incentive to obtain this and that.

There is a book out there that taught me a lot. I can pick up on when people are trying to seduce me now... It's called The Art of Seduction. It's a pretty interesting read, and has certainly helped me to avoid certain situations that I where I was being manipulated.

Hehe, nope, I have gotten discounts on my oil changes because the boys in the shop liked my car and my stereo system. :p I never asked for it though. They just did it. Hey wait, I didn't even do or say anything, it was just the car and stuff in it. :p

[Rudy]

it was just the car and stuff in it

Well, were you in the car? ;)

Just kidding. If you don't actually try and "work your wiles," and guys give you things because you are attractive, well, that's their problem, not yours.

[Harmony]

Well, were you in the car? ;)

Just kidding. If you don't actually try and "work your wiles," and guys give you things because you are attractive, well, that's their problem, not yours.

LoL, I drop the keys off to the guy in front, a mechanic gets it and pulls it around, and then when they are done front desk calls me back. :p Apparently the mechanic had called the front desk guy back to check out my ride. :rolleyes:

Ha! They were probably surprised it was a girl driving it!

[Prunesquallor]

It does suck, for the few guys that don't fit that sterotype. I've not met many - then again, some might act that way because it's 'cool' or something and not genuinely be that simple-minded. I hope?

But it also sucks to be blamed for leading a guy on just because you, for example, edited their essay for them. Since when is that a date? Oh, I have blonde hair - well it must have been, then.
And it's very weird to get all of that sleazy attention, and have them try to buy you things, because obviously we can be bought, and then have them get angry because you weren't 'grateful' for the attention - ie they stared at your chest. Wow so flattering. Gosh don't I feel special. No, wait...I feel like an object and it's gross.

I really just don't understand this flirting thing. Like flowers, for example - anyone understand that? 'here are the decapitated sexual organs of plants - now you can watch them slowly wither.' yay?

Honestly, guys and girls - they're just people. If people would only treat each other like human beings and stop getting hung up on these moronic stereotypes, then it'll be a lot less frustrating.
Oh, Opposite Day, when will you come?

[alphawolf]

Attractive women do get a completely unnecessary amount of kindness and consideration out of me, and my intelligence and integrity both do seem to drop in their company. I assume, at some primal level, this is because I impelled to mate with them.


Uuuh... what an epiphany!





alphawolf added to this post, 2 minutes and 38 seconds later...

Scenario 2: Guy gets sex, girl gets emotionally crushed and forever thinks men are sex-hungry pigs.

We are; especially when it comes to sexy, beautiful women.

[wittykitty]

Scenario 2: Guy gets sex, stupid and idealistic girl gets emotionally crushed and forever thinks men are sex-hungry pigs.

There. Fixed that for you.

Btw love the avatar. Thats my dream cat.

[Rudy]

Scenario 2: Guy gets sex, stupid and idealistic girl gets emotionally crushed and forever thinks men are sex-hungry pigs.

There. Fixed that for you.
Hah! Burned. I think, to be fair, it's more like naive and idealistic, but the point is well made.

[naughtysnail]

I assure you, what's equally annoying is the stereotype that women don't really enjoy sex, and in a relationship the woman usually has sex just to please her partner. In my MA class there are three women, including me. The other two are a very devout Catholic, and a girl from the Bible belt. I therefore had a lot of difficulty trying to persuade my male-dominated class (single-handedly) that a text which involves women asking for sex is not necessarily a male fantasy text. Sometimes really do want it. Difficult and disgusting to believe, possibly, but it's true.

[amyleanne]

How is it stupid, naive, or idealistic to believe a man when he says "I love you" and to suffer when you find out you've been used? I like to think I can "see through" certain people but some are pretty convincing...and as Samoan pointed out, not all men treat girls this way. Either you put up the resulting safeguard and never trust a man again, or you trust one and risk getting hurt. People are manipulative. A girl isn't naive or idealistic for being unable to predict the future. I'm neither stupid nor naive (though maybe a little idealistic) but I wasn't born with asshole radar.

And Samoan...isn't it sad that--although unevolved--all the unplanned pregnancies result in these dickheads spreading their genes like wildfire?

[Rudy]

The naive thing isn't primarily believing the guy, it's giving him sexual favors for simply saying that he loves you.

[amyleanne]

Haha thanks wittykitty...I also thought he was a high-quality cat.

RudyHenkel...It is never as simple as all that. Some random guy couldn't come up and profess to love me and I start handing out blowjobs. We aren't vending machines. Surely in these situations much more has transpired between the guy and girl to render her overly hopeful. But then we are all guilty of oversimplification... naughtysnail is right. I guess the whole situation is being viewed too mechanically. Girls want sex too in these situations. The problem is that (often unspoken) contract--the one that says "I'll stick around after this" but isn't honored. Maybe the naive thing is imagining such a contract when it isn't even explicit? When it is, though...hes a dickhead.

[Rudy]

A guy being a dickhead and a girl being naive are in no way mutually exclusive. If a guy promises something, and a girl believes him without good reason to, and he then breaks the promise, then he is a dickhead and she is naive.

[Samoan Corleone]

How is it stupid, naive, or idealistic to believe a man when he says "I love you" and to suffer when you find out you've been used? I like to think I can "see through" certain people but some are pretty convincing...and as Samoan pointed out, not all men treat girls this way. Either you put up the resulting safeguard and never trust a man again, or you trust one and risk getting hurt. People are manipulative. A girl isn't naive or idealistic for being unable to predict the future. I'm neither stupid nor naive (though maybe a little idealistic) but I wasn't born with asshole radar.

And Samoan...isn't it sad that--although unevolved--all the unplanned pregnancies result in these dickheads spreading their genes like wildfire?

Yes, that's sad. But, let's hope that this is a nurture thing and not a nature thing. That way, these kids can learn to not be assholes like their fathers, or naive like their mothers. Also, with the safeguard and all, there are always signs that indicate whether a man is genuine or if he just genuinely wants your ass.


The naive thing isn't primarily believing the guy, it's giving him sexual favors for simply saying that he loves you.

Yes, that's absurd. It's like:

Guy: I love you!
Girl: ATo view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. me sucky-sucky.*
Guy: (thinking) Yes! I knew that shit would work! Once I burst I'm out the door...
Girl: (thinking) I've only known this guy for 5 minutes, but he said he loves me so I'm sure he means it. This is so great!

*sorry, I was watching Full Metal Jacket the other day


A guy being a dickhead and a girl being naive are in no way mutually exclusive. If a guy promises something, and a girl believes him without good reason to, and he then breaks the promise, then he is a dickhead and she is naive.

Exactly!