Would you be more likely/willing to believe in fate or luck?

[OneBadMother]

I have a slight hunch that Ps would be more likely to believe in luck and Js more in fate, but we'll see.

Also, it'd be interesting if you posted what you voted and why. :P I voted luck because there have been several times during my life where I seem to have gotten out all right where the odds seemed against it.

[The Rose]

I said fate because I don't believe in the existence of luck, but I don't really believe in a fate that is "beyond our control" either. I believe we are responsible for ourselves.

[INTeJer]

I voted luck, because my brother is way too lucky and I *know* luck exists. There's no other explaination. He always beats me in card games, even when luck should not be an issue.

More seriously, I think some people as so smart that thay can appear "lucky". It's probably just their ability to grasp and catch every little opportunity, invisible to others who are less smart. Or, to interpret better body language, or other fine details, to their advantage.

[deicruxified]

i voted luck... because i'm a fate basher. a lot of "card readers" and "psychics" told my dad that i'm the person who's doomed to fail and they narrated it to him in detail (i.e. i will never finish 6th grade and get pregnant, etc.). i'm the kind of person who would often impose my will on things regardless if what i've chosen to get is near impossible (of course i also do a lot of thinking/intuiting whether they are feasible or not before i push through with it). i plan a lot of strategies and there's no moment in my life that i never put an idea into my drawing board (including my dreams). i do believe that luck comes in mysterius ways but whether they come or not, at least you got your plans whatever may come.

* deicruxified added to this post, 12 minutes and 0 seconds later...

add: here's some bit of my life. since may, i have always been working with luck when my friend and i started our environmental org. my friend, being an istj, wanted to do more of liaison jobs and helping me put my ideas into action. he got to read my mind a bit on my contingency plans so when i "shift" from one plan to the next, he never questioned. i run our org by "if-then" statements... i think being intj's you know what i mean. then there came a time when the project seemed to grow larger and larger, we need more staff. i tried thinking of a lot of possibilities that might happen for us to get people like the classical "recruitment" and "postering" to "mushrooms popping out of one corner" which is more of luck. and guess what? the perfect person for the right job popped out like mushroom. when i was on the brink of going for some footwork myself, a friend of mine messaged me that he's coming back here in our country and he was asking if i could hitch him in whatever gimmick i have now because he's bored...

i got zillions of luck stories and a lot of people think i'm more of "p" than "j" when i tell them this but it's more of "planning for the unexpected".

however, having said that, i'm going to give you a zen answer: i don't fully believe in luck. i still believe that everything happens for a reason by i don't think it's fate.

[Rei]

Fate... I don't think I'm in the state of mind to explain why... but here's a try...

Because it is not necessarily what the mystics refer to it as. It is possibly just a bunch of things similar things that lead up to a similar event. (eg. cell fate)

EG
You, running into the same person constantly: (it's fate! *gasp* We are fated to be together!)
You probably just have very similar tastes, preferences, habits and so you also tend to get a long very well. Therefore fate is really just a bunch of things that just so happen to match up well...

[rwyatt365]

Luck, because "luck" to me implies chance, "a roll of the dice" as it were. Much more plausible to me than "fate" which to me implies an agency that controls results. I refuse to believe that something, or someone is manipulating me.

e.g. if I bump into the same pretty girl at lunch every day then those chance meetings just happened to fall to my favor (I was lucky), rather then neither she nor I had any choice in the matter. I don't want to be an actor on "God's" stage.

[Rei]

Luck, because "luck" to me implies chance, "a roll of the dice" as it were. Much more plausible to me than "fate" which to me implies an agency that controls results. I refuse to believe that something, or someone is manipulating me.

e.g. if I bump into the same pretty girl at lunch every day then those chance meetings just happened to fall to my favor (I was lucky), rather then neither she nor I had any choice in the matter. I don't want to be an actor on "God's" stage.

Well then would you consider the scenario I proposed a thing of luck rather than a thing of fate?

Because people tend to associate it with 'fate' rather than 'luck' when "coincidences" happen.

[rwyatt365]

Yeah, I see that as more luck ("Damn, I sure was lucky meeting you like this!"). I just can't abide by divine (or otherwise) intervention.

[Lucid]

I voted fate. Whenever something strange has happened to me I tend to see it more as ... planned by the universe (although rationally I know that's silly) than just random good fortune.

An example: A few years ago my car died on the side of the highway. I had my mechanic friend come look at it and after trying several things he determined that it was my timing belt. I had no money for a tow truck, the car had already been sitting there for a few days and I didn't know how I was going to get the car off the side of the road.
Just then a tow truck pulled up and I thought it was someone from the county sent to collect my car and impound it. Instead, this guy got out and said, "I was just driving by.... do you guys need some help?" We explained the situation and he towed my car for free. I have always (for some reason) interpreted this as being fate. Rationally, I know it's random coincidence that I happened to have benefited from, but he showed up just as I was thinking, "Oh shit, how the hell am I going to get my car off the side of the road?"

[Rei]

Yeah, I see that as more luck ("Damn, I sure was lucky meeting you like this!"). I just can't abide by divine (or otherwise) intervention.

but the thing is I don't see fate as "divine intervention" or "God*'s plan"
I see it more as a pattern of occurrences - a "because... therefore."

Where as luck is trying to put meaning (prove causation) into random chance.


*God, or any other ruling body, power, energy etc etc etc

[Wildflower]

This P says Luck. :)

[logan235711]

Luck, because most theories say the world isn't predetermined.

[RoqueBear]

I chose fate... because, I believe in karma... Even to the point of calling it almost mathematical... Even though probabilities can be calculated and luck based on them... Karma plays a bigger role in the greater scheme.

[Hdier]

Luck, as in an unexplainable phenomenon of something or someone having an event that is against all probability happen recurrantly, in a negative or positive way.

I say luck becuause I am lucky (I am talking about extreme luck) (remember, luck includes unluck in my paragraph). I will tend to be very lucky for one thing in one thing, then the luck will suddenly change for one instance.

For example, I used enter contests a lot, but never won. Now this may simply sound typical, but I am specifically talking about times when they were supposed to have an award for everyone, but there was some sort of mistake, so four or five people didn't get anything-and I was always one of those people (technically we got something, but it wasn't anything of real value). Then, at one point in my life the only thing that I wanted was an art set. I forget why, but I couldn't get one for some reason or another. I entered a contest, and the second prize was a mystery prize. I won it, and it turned out to be...an art set!

Also, I have a lot of natural academic ability, such as being talented at the Tuba (I am able to play true notes easily, and able to pick on rhythems almost immediatley without help, don't need to keep track of time, and can adjust to different time's very easily (I'm talking about things such as 2/4, 6/8, etc., but I forget what they are called). It's like this in all subjects except one: Foreign language. I am terrible at learning a new language! The only thing I don't excel at (I don't include sports or any other physical thing as P.E.)!

[rwyatt365]

but the thing is I don't see fate as "divine intervention" or "God*'s plan"
I see it more as a pattern of occurrences - a "because... therefore."

Where as luck is trying to put meaning (prove causation) into random chance.


*God, or any other ruling body, power, energy etc etc etc
Given that definition, I'd agree with the "fate" conclusion. However, I wouldn't define "Fate" as you do. Your definition of fate corresponds more to my definition of luck - a pattern of occurances.

[Paul V]

Luck. I control the general events that happen in my life. If it is interrupted by a random event I couldn't forsee, it's just that. A random event I couldn't forsee. I refuse to believe there's something guiding my every action, and rendering my free will useless.

[Solnath]

I prefer luck as fate by definition is waaaaay too rigid for my tastes. Luck is chaotic and chaos is... "good."

[stasis]

Luck.

Because I think "luck" is the most devoid of meaning out of the two of those nonsensical things. It would be easier for me to believe in something absurd if that something were so ambiguous as to be beyond critique.

[Bonnie]

Fate - I see little empricial proof of the existence of luck (case studies don't count) and it comforts me to know that things happen because they are meant to - not because someone is dictating the script and I'm merely reading what they've written for me, but because I feel there is a natural order to events that helps existence arrange itself around us and other life-forms (I mean birdies and trees and whatnot - not UFOs).

[Rei]

Fate - I see little empricial proof of the existence of luck (case studies don't count) and it comforts me to know that things happen because they are meant to - not because someone is dictating the script and I'm merely reading what they've written for me, but because I feel there is a natural order to events that helps existence arrange itself around us and other life-forms (I mean birdies and trees and whatnot - not UFOs).

And why not UFOs?

[Lucid]

Fate - I see little empricial proof of the existence of luck (case studies don't count) and it comforts me to know that things happen because they are meant to - not because someone is dictating the script and I'm merely reading what they've written for me, but because I feel there is a natural order to events that helps existence arrange itself around us and other life-forms (I mean birdies and trees and whatnot - not UFOs).

Well there's little empirical proof for fate either. Although I share your preference.

[Hypomanic]

None. However if forced to choose I'd pick luck, because fate is 'predetermined' and luck can usually be explained in plausible terms. So, ideally, I pick karma.

[Paul V]

None. However if forced to choose I'd pick luck, because fate is 'predetermined' and luck can usually be explained in plausible terms. So, ideally, I pick karma.

I would've picked the same, given the choice.

[rwyatt365]

And why not UFOs?
That's it! UFO's cause it all. There is no luck, there is no fate - it's all randomly caused by little grey men! :alien:

[TruorTupnm]

Luck, easily, and for most of the same reasons given versus the idea of fate. I am surprised that the results are so even. Fate is creepy, yo. Whether it's the Force or some terrifying as well as usually capitalized Being or Beings, I enjoy the idea of free will. Sure, I could be subtly influenced by all kinds of things, but I've flipped coins to decide things before. Sounds like luck, to myself! Also, I have always been very lucky. Always the money greets me on the sidewalk! Always the vending machines spit out free stuff or money! Always the random human that I don't remember ever meeting walking up and offering me favors just for being such a cool guy! :rolleyes:

[The Many]

Fate, since after all it could just be my fate not to believe in it. :cheesy:

[terencec]

I believe in Luck not Fate.

I don't like the idea all my decisions have already pre-determined and all the outcomes have been set (by God).

So if my fate is bad, no matter what I do, there is no way I can change it. I just don't like that. However, I could not prove one way or the other. That is no way we will ever know the event is fate or not unless we know the future (by a time machine). To prove fate does not exist, one has to prove the actions now will change the future outcomes.

I like the movie Match Point (Woody Allen). It is all about luck.

[Antares]

I believe in luck, but if I'm feeling self-indulgent, then fate (must be due to my romanticism 0__o) :D I'd rather that fate and destiny is real (yes, I'm a great fan of fantasy), but I know how to recognize fact from fiction. I believe in an indeterministic universe.

[Fogghorn]

Jane Bloggins flips a coin 14 times, it comes up heads every time. Is she cheating, skilled, lucky or is fate toying with her? None of the above!

What you don't know is that originally 8192 people all started flipping coins. Everyone who flipped a heads moved onto the next round, the tails flippers were eliminated. After 14 rounds only one was left and that's what would be mathematically expected.

So I believe in neither luck nor fate. Just statistics ............with a healthy dollop of self determination helping to balance things out.

[lancelot]

Obivously, intjs create their own destiny. Luck occurs, (time and chance) but not enough to guide a person through life.

[Richard0612]

Jane Bloggins flips a coin 14 times, it comes up heads every time. Is she cheating, skilled, lucky or is fate toying with her? None of the above!

What you don't know is that originally 8192 people all started flipping coins. Everyone who flipped a heads moved onto the next round, the tails flippers were eliminated. After 14 rounds only one was left and that's what would be mathematically expected.

So I believe in neither luck nor fate. Just statistics ............with a healthy dollop of self determination helping to balance things out.

I would agree. Fate seems to be very woolly - i.e. 'mystic predictions' that are so general that they could apply to anyone, see Forer Effect (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) - and 'lucky break' is just a sugar-coated way of saying 'statistically unlikely outcome that favours you'. Sorry to be so cynical, but it's how I view things!

[Cytastic]

Luck is a perception. If an unfaithful man is killed in an accidental fire, his wife may see it as luck, since she doesn't have to put up with him anymore. Then she learns that he was on his way to cash in the winning lottery ticket (which has been turned to ash in the fire). Now she thinks that the fire was unlucky, since she could have been rich. How can it be both lucky and then unlucky? It can't. It's an event. It just is. The woman's perception of the event changed - but the event itself did not.

So for me, luck does not exist as a cause of events, but rather as an attempt to assign a value to something that is inherently neutral.

***

I did vote fate, but my definition of fate is a bit different than the norm. Consider my take on my personal universe:

At any given moment in my life, I have choices. Many, many choices. For instance, I could jump up and sing off-key, or I could do some situps, or go to the fridge and eat everything in there all at once, or continue to type, etc. I'm sitting here with all of these paths fanning out from me. Some of them are dark (I'm not going to eat all the food in my house), others are dim (I could do some situps, I'm a bit overweight), and still others are brightly lit (like continue typing). My previous choices weigh heavily on both the availability and feasability of my current options, and of course, random chance opens and closes potential paths all the time.

Soooo (sorry to carry on), someone could say "You were fated to compose this post," to which I would reply "Hogwash! Fate doesn't exist! What you think is fate is merely the realization of a sequence of events influenced by both random chance and personal decision."

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'd like to go rummage through my fridge...

[Cookabara]

Fate. If you win small amount on the lottery and the same day you lose the same amount, just by slipping out of the pocket, is this not fate?

[yondyr]

Neither, both succumb to statistics.

[denaria]

Luck, because "luck" to me implies chance, "a roll of the dice" as it were. Much more plausible to me than "fate" which to me implies an agency that controls results. I refuse to believe that something, or someone is manipulating me.

e.g. if I bump into the same pretty girl at lunch every day then those chance meetings just happened to fall to my favor (I was lucky), rather then neither she nor I had any choice in the matter. I don't want to be an actor on "God's" stage.

You don't give the pretty girl the option of actually engineering the meetings because she fancies you?

[ssfanatic]

My decision in Fate is easy...religion :)

But really, there is just too much irony in the world to believe in luck, i look at the evidence and fate seems prevalent.

[vkut79]

I believe that there is only one way that the course of events could and would happen. There is no inherent randomness in the course of events - all is structured; we are just not aware of some of this structure and how it works, and so we say "chance" or "free will" when these things are completely subjective constructions and not "really" real. Luck is just a pattern of events that seem to go unexpectedly in or against our favor - its nothing special, just a subjective perception. I do not believe in 'fate' either, because that normally means that some greater authority has predetermined and designed everything - I don't believe that any kind of authority designed anything. The world just "is" - there's no need to assume it was made, and the course of events that happen in the world only occur as they do. They had to occur as they did, they must occur as they will, there is only one way in which anything happens, and it is what we experience. So I believe in a kind of fate that is naturally present and not created or administered by any higher power.

[burazekun]

I beleive in Fate, and that luck is just a good aspect out of that. I beleive fate is part of the endless choices we make for ourselves. With every choice we make we narrow the dirrection we can go. Meaning we will eventually come to a point where other forces influence us. That is fate. We control where to head, but like a ship, sometimes the wind pushes against our sails making us move northeast instead of east. Or better explained. Two sets of molecules cant occupy the same space. If they come at each other, they will eventually bounce off each other affecting their paths, or fusing with eachother, making a new element and a new dirrection with different mass affecting the influence it has.

[Latte]

If one doesn't interpret fate as a cause in itself, but rather inevitable points in the process of ones life it doesn't conflict with determinism or other multiple-factors-interacting-over-time views (as in, if you knew what it were then that knowledge would be one of those factors eventually leading to it happening).

Choosing fate, i guess.