Questions about INFJ (relationship area)

[nightfire]

Hello, guys.

Rare poster, long time lurker here. Since you don't mind scrutinizing relationships, I'd like to ask for some insight in this situation, especially from INFJs or from those that have experience of dating INFJs.

So, 4 months ago I met this INFJ girl - online, through a dating website. We exchanged a dozen e-mails, then switched to IM - and for about 3 months there was quite an intensive chatting. We are currently living in separate European countries (I'm studying abroad), so it took a while for us to be able to arrange a date. There were three dates in total in a period of several weeks, all quite passionate (at least by my standards) - including a bit of touchy-feely stuff, kisses etc. No sex though or anything in that direction. After that I had to leave again. This time - till April. Here is where the questions start.

1) How long does it take for an INFJ to let someone inside their inner sanctum? From time to time I hear hints from her that it takes some time for her to truly start trusting someone, to be able to feel comfortable around him etc. Once, after a more serious "relationship talk" (initiated by me), she opened up surprisingly for a while and explained that she stills feels that I am a bit of a stranger, that she needs some more "real" experience to make up her mind, to get to know me better as a person and so on. On one hand, I don't expect much more after three dates; on the other, it's been 4 months of communication already and some direction would be nice. Any insights? Is this common for INFJs or is it just a delaying tactic?

2) Are variations between warm and open & a bit coldish & distant common for her type? She is quite sociable (at least judging from her frequent meetings with friends and 3x longer IM contact list) and therefore busy at times, so this may just be my overanalysis. But there are times when we can chat for several hours non-stop and other times she may be silent for the whole day if I don't initiate it. I'm guessing it has to do with her "I need time" attitude, but it sometimes can be slightly frustrating.

3) What is the likelihood that INFJ will reciprocate romantic feelings of someone that expresses them very strongly? There is a guy that she has known for at least 5-6 years (same class in school) and who is her friend. She had been hearing rumors that he had feelings for her for quite some time and she treated them more like a joke and viewed him only as a friend; however, he acknowledged this very recently and has been seeking her attention ever since. He is VERY emotional (from her descriptions, most likely an xxFP or even an xSFP) and she is put off by this; but she still feels a bit confused and I am in no position to compete with him for some time. Can the fact that they are long time friends and that he can definitely give her a wild emotional rollercoaster (she’s still an F) be decisive in this situation?

Just a couple more details for a clarification. We are both 23 year old, same country, with about 1 year left in our studies. I possess the last quality mentioned in the slogan of this forum, however, her experience is also a bit limited (one 6-year-long relationship) and we are communicating really easily and pleasantly, so I don't think it's a significant factor.

Sorry for a long post.

[Cthulhu]

I'm having a similar experience with an INFJ - right down to meeting on an online dating site and geographic seperation - although it's been going on for a couple of years. My meager insights with respect to your questions are as follows:

1) They can get inside an INTJ's head much quicker than an INTJ can get inside theirs.

2) Yes. They can be quite variable in both the frequency and tone of their communication. I will on occasion get 3 or 4 e-mails from the one I know within the space of an hour and at other times have my communication go unanswered for a week.

3) I can only try to speak for the one I know, but my sense is that while she is comfortable with other people expressing intense emotions in a general way she is significantly less comfortable when those intense emotions are directed at her.

[yepunsarang]

Hey there---

I'm always consistently surprised about the many posts that INTJs/ INFJs post about their feelings for the other. It's delightful, really, since I consider them probably some of the deepest matches out there. (Well, of course, that's an opinion). But as an INFJ female, hopefully I can help you in this realm. (I also have various other INTJ friends who I consider my closest friends).

Mmm---indeed, I think it takes just about the same amount of time for trust to be built within an INFJ as an INTJ. My INTJs and I have always taken a liking to talking about trust. I think this mutual feeling of being troubled by this word---"trust" says something deep about us. We take time to trust because we are weary of how much we can be hurt. Especially INFJs (even the tough ones) have a soft core inside of them that is precious. It's easy to get hurt for INFJs. This is especially true when a loved one hurts them.

At least for me, i've realized that trusting comes hard for me, but when I meet a "certain type" which I could probably say could include the INTJ, it's not hard at all. But if it's a trust that's romantic, that's something else for me. Romantic love is something more fragile---something that requires you to give your entire self away---and even expose that tender part of that INFJ. If the INFJ girl really likes you or loves you, HECK she does. It's just she might be weary and hesitant about plunging into that reality because that mean's she's making herself very very vulnerable. If I were her, i'd really, really want to open myself totally to you (that is, if she likes you)---but would be afraid to.

Ahhh yes, the cold warm thing. A trademark INFJ characteristic. Yes, like INTJs, INFJs need time for themselves. Because they are so sensitive about things, life isn't always an easy ride. Their internal minds and lives are so complex and deep---So yeah, sometimes she needs time to organize thoughts and revive. I know this can be frustrating, but hey, this is also characteristic of INTJs, which ALSO drive me mad. Hahaha. Her inconsistent replies may also reflect the uncertain nature of commitment---her fear of being totally vulnerable. (Or may be her emotions function sporadically? :) dunno---but for me, my emotions are always consistent and strong. What usually stops me from always writing back or something is fear that that other person doesn't regard me just as strongly)

Mm-- about her other friend, i'm not too sure because i'm not her. It really depends on how balanced she is as a person I guess. For me, i'm just slightly more an F than a T, so I DO get put off my overly emotional irrational people myself. But as a type with stronger "feeling", I think that if an INFJ is conveyed an intense love, it wouldn't necessarily be negative. But that is dependent on the INFJ's preferences. If it's from someone she's put off by, she'd brush them off and just be annoyed. But if she has genuine trust, respect, and love (romantic or otherwise), I think she'd consider and even be flattered.

Good luck!!!! I'm glad to hear of more INFJ-INTJ situations. I seriously feel like a coupling like that is deep... :)

[Sesquipedalian]

I am in the process of getting to know one now, so while I can't tell you what it's like getting to know them long-term, I can at least share my experiences:

1) For the most part, I'm not sure it's a matter of time as much as it is a matter of the person themselves. I'd say most people will NEVER make it into an INFJ's inner sanctum just like most people never make it into INTJs' inner sanctum. However, for someone they care about, it still takes a while for those barriers to crack and give way. I don't think they are intentionally "testing" you, but as you pass each test of trust, they let you in a little more. Mine wasn't testing me, but she definitely questioned my ability to handle certain facts about herself. She was very worried that sharing said facts would negatively impact my opinion of her to the point that I'd want nothing to do with her. When she finally took the plunge and shared a bit more of her life with me she realized that my opinion of her hasn't changed at all, that her fears were unwarranted, and that she can trust me with the important stuff. I "passed the test" as it were. Perhaps your experiences have been similar.

2) Try not to let your perception of her behavior affect your perception of her or your perception of how she feels for you. I've made this mistake myself. My INFJ will seem cold or abrupt or stand-offish, like she doesn't want to talk to me when I IM her at times. You know, not very chatty. In the past when I expressed that I thought she didn't want to talk to her, she responded, "OF COURSE I want to talk to you! I always want to talk to you!" We will sometimes go a fairly long time without talking, to the point that I wonder if she really wants to talk to me, but when we finally do talk?... It's awesome and nothing has changed. INFJs do need their alone time, and I don't know about yours, but mine has a busy life. But, again, try not to let your perception of her behavior itself affect your perception of what is the motivating force behind that behavior.

3) When INFJs like you, they like you INTENSELY. When and how they share this has less to do with when you share your affections and more to do with when they feel like sharing theirs. My INFJ has hinted at the depth of which she cares for me, but has only given me small peeks. I think she fears scaring me away by sharing the intensity of her attraction toward me, that she fears breaking my heart if things don't work out, and, to a lesser extent, fears breaking her own heart. The peeks I have gotten, though? Wow. This girl is crazy about me.

Hope that helps you. I'm hoping to overcome similar challenges of geography with my INFJ.

[Ender]

I don't have much to add, but I'll just say this:
Is this common for INFJs or is it just a delaying tactic?
I have a sister who I'm 99% sure is an INFJ and I've seen/heard of her being that way with guys (ie: I seriously doubt it's a delaying tactic).

[nightfire]

At first, my warmest thanks to all of you for these great responses! It's a relief to know that my experiences are not that unique and may actually have an explanation.

Some comments:

I can only try to speak for the one I know, but my sense is that while she is comfortable with other people expressing intense emotions in a general way she is significantly less comfortable when those intense emotions are directed at her.

Mhm, I'll keep this in mind. I have some experience with a rather typical ENFP, who absolutely loved intense emotions - this girl seems to be much more complex. "More is better" thing doesn't always apply.

It's delightful, really, since I consider them probably some of the deepest matches out there.

I can say the same thing, at least from my limited experience. I have yet to grasp her depth (no pun intended) - even after >4 months of extensive communication I can't really predict her responses. With any other type (except for INTJ, which was yet another case) it usually takes 2 weeks tops to get to that phase.

If the INFJ girl really likes you or loves you, HECK she does. It's just she might be weary and hesitant about plunging into that reality because that mean's she's making herself very very vulnerable. If I were her, i'd really, really want to open myself totally to you (that is, if she likes you)---but would be afraid to.

I understand and I have thought about it this way. But what (or how long) could it take to earn INFJ's trust, to overcome that fear, to move upwards from "I really like you; I just don't feel comfortable yet" (her words)?

I have told her a couple of weeks before that I like her and would like to have everything develop into a real long-term relationship, so it is now essentially up to her to choose whether to accept that - to what she responded with that "she stills feels that I am a bit of a stranger" part I mentioned in the original post. Therefore, she knows my feelings and my intentions. Could it be a helpful or a scary thing for her?

Ahhh yes, the cold warm thing. A trademark INFJ characteristic.

Wow, I didn't know that. "F"+"J" must have confused me. Thank you.

When she finally took the plunge and shared a bit more of her life with me she realized that my opinion of her hasn't changed at all, that her fears were unwarranted, and that she can trust me with the important stuff. I "passed the test" as it were. Perhaps your experiences have been similar.

True, mine have been similar as well, just that such sharing was usually caused by me bringing up some "deeper" things, to what she reciprocated. On the other hand, it's quite sporadic. We could go really deep one day and the other day she could respond with just a ":)" to what I consider an important and sensitive issue. Again, it all comes back to trust issues, I assume.

Try not to let your perception of her behavior affect your perception of her or your perception of how she feels for you. I've made this mistake myself.

Guilty. Thank you.

INFJs do need their alone time, and I don't know about yours, but mine has a busy life.

Same here. It's quite surprising, considering she's an I. She hasn't got a very wide circle of friends, but there isn't a week without them having at least 2-3 long and fun meetings. Add studies and some work to that mix.

The peeks I have gotten, though? Wow. This girl is crazy about me.

Well, I am quite sure that she's not crazy about me, at least not yet. It's me (at least from my perspective) who is deliberately "slowing" himself so that not to get too infatuated too early (and I am supposed to be a T here). But those "peeks" to her feelings? Definitely. If it's really her dominant thoughts, then wow.

[curiousjane]

It's me (at least from my perspective) who is deliberately "slowing" himself so that not to get too infatuated too early (and I am supposed to be a T here).
Don't worry. You're not the only rational person this has happened to. I dated an INTJ once who confided in me that he rarely had strong feelings, but when he did, they were impossible for him to contain.

Needless to say, we're not together now. It finally hit him that there was nothing to even try to contain.

I would say maybe you are just experiencing your Judging kicking into gear. You like her. You know enough about her. That's it. A more Perceiving person would weigh a million and one options (like I do) before reaching a fully committed level. You are able to make a quick decision and jump in. Let it happen.

She's being careful with her heart. I'm INFP ... fairly close to INFJ in some ways ... we care way more than we are able to express and very much more than we care to admit. But we want to be SURE. We don't want to deceive you and just "play along". We want to be able to say "I love you" and mean it heart, mind, and soul. If we let you glimpse our vulnerable side ... we're learning to trust you. And you've probably already won our hearts, we just can't admit it yet.

Also, keep in mind that you met online. It takes awhile to become comfortable around each other's physical presence, even though you are used to each other's mental processes and verbal expressions. She's going to alternate between letting go of defenses and quickly putting them back up until she finally feels safe.

But that's just my opinion.

[Sequoia]

I am an INFJ married to (I finally figured it out by observation and learning the differences between INTJ and INTP) an INTJ.

I always was able to give my heart and trust quickly if I sensed the connection was there. We became engaged just 3 weeks after meeting (it was a bit fast for me, but I trusted my intuition), married 7 months later and still am, 28 years later. But I know I am different from other INFJ's when it comes to relationships.

My INFJ friends do go hot/cold and need more extensive downtime than I do. Those that experienced abuse or didn't have anywhere they were accepted for who they were as children have major problems trusting people; they've learned to do so brings serious harm. Most INFJ's I've met have dealt with this; I was incredibly lucky I didn't.

As long as your girlfriend is not pushing you away or outright ending the relationship, be patient, gentle and consistant with her. If you've won her heart, you'll soon know.

[FLINTJm]

I'm leaving for a trip tomorrow morning with an INFJ.

My answers...

1.) A few weeks, but there's something unusual happening between us.

2.) Warm, cold... yeah, I've seen it a little, but not since we made a date for Valentine's day a few weeks ago. (I've known her about a month and a half)

3.) I don't really know yet. But the friend you speak of sounds like a friend and no more. Be careful not to land yourself in the same position.

[pocohauntus]

I don't know, I guess I'm just so detached that I don't understand what any of you guys are talking about. It kind of seems like you really aren't real people, I mean not real in the general sense. Oh well.

[qwerty]

I'm dating this amazing ENFP woman, who matches me completely. We have our thing going on.

1) How long does it take for an INFJ to let someone inside their inner sanctum?

Well there was attraction to each other when we first met. And over the weeks we got to know more and more about each other. It was a case that she was very open to me, though there were a few things she held back. It took me longer but she managed to have enough faith in me and held me by the horns until I felt comfortable with her. A year on we're celebrating our 2nd valentines day and she knows me better than anyone. She can ask me anything and I'm hers.

2) Are variations between warm and open & a bit coldish & distant common for her type?
Well she's my murder mystery sometimes but we play off each other well. I guess I get hot and cold a little too but it seems more that we're just the right mix for each other. So normally at least one of us is warm and most of the time we're hot for each other physically and mentally.

3) What is the likelihood that INFJ will reciprocate romantic feelings of someone that expresses them very strongly?

Expressing as in saying that I love her and letting her know how important she is to me? Because I like it when she knows how amazing she is.

[ricearoni]

1) How long does it take for an INFJ to let someone inside their inner sanctum?

Well for me personally, it can take awhile. I mean it's pretty deep stuff and there's different parts that I have to reveal before I'll get to revealing certain things. I remember reading someone comparing us to like an onion ( :laugh: ), with lots of layers, that you have to keep peeling away until you reach the center.

Anyway, if I'm making an effort to share stuff with you, even if it doesn't seem so major...that's a good thing. Also, I tend to be more open to people who are really open themselves and aren't really judgmental. Oh...and for some reason people who ask me lots of questions and seem genuinely interested in what I have to say, tend to get me to open up more.

2) Are variations between warm and open & a bit coldish & distant common for her type?

Yeah, I do this. I think it's an introvert thing. Sometimes I just need a break from people. But then sometimes, I might be dealing with something stressful and I'm not ready to share that with anyone or I just want to be alone to deal with it myself.

3) What is the likelihood that INFJ will reciprocate romantic feelings of someone that expresses them very strongly?

Um...well it depends on whether or not I like the guy.
If I like him, I'll be making an effort to reciprocate. If I don't, I'll avoid him like the plague, unless for some reason I have to work with him.

But for your situation, the other guy doesn't sound like someone you should worry about.

[Ocean Machine]

I have a question that really relates to the the topic at hand: if I as an INTJ let my own guard down around an INFJ, will she be more likely to let me in?

[nightfire]

I have a question that really relates to the the topic at hand: if I as an INTJ let my own guard down around an INFJ, will she be more likely to let me in?

This is exactly what I am doing at this moment. In my opinion, it should encourage the INFJ to reciprocate (limited success so far); however, as CJ pointed out, being too open can also end quite badly. Pure logic doesn't seem to work as expected in this situation...

[curiousjane]

as CJ pointed out, being too open can also end quite badly. Pure logic doesn't seem to work as expected in this situation...
Not quite what I meant. The INTJ I knew realized he DID NOT have feelings for me. There was nothing to try to hold back ... because there was nothing pushing to get out. He simply didn't love me romantically. Case closed.

I thought I was getting to love him, but all the mental over-analysis and emotional turmoil I thought MIGHT be "falling in love" was actually simply me struggling to make something to make sense and work out. He wasn't what I needed. (Don't get me wrong ... he was a great guy. Just not MY great guy.)

I since have discovered how wonderful and natural a true relationship can be with someone who actually enjoys exactly who you are, and vice versa. There is no comparison ... especially in the over-analyzation department. I don't have to wonder "what is he thinking?" because I either know already, or I can ask him outright. I don't have to fret "why didn't he call?" because guess what? He called. Or chatted. Or texted. Or took me on a date. For his part, he knows exactly where I stand, as well.

The hot and cold thing is, in my opinion, definitely improved by open communication, patience, and a willing to open yourself up to being vulnerable. INFx-types pick up on that kind of thing pretty quickly and it helps us to be vulnerable, in kind. If the hot and cold behavior/emotions are coming from someone who genuinely is interested in you romantically, it's probably stemming from one of a few things:

1) He/she is getting mixed signals from you and doesn't know the best way to respond.
2) He/she is taken off guard by the emotions or lack thereof they have in response to you. (A lack of emotions can be a good thing ... if the emotion you are lacking is confusion or irritation that you are used to having when in a relationship).
3) He/she has been advised by close friends or family members, etc. against you and he/she is struggling internally to determine if they will follow the advice or not.

But none of these things will trump true desire to be with you. If you are open about your interest a mature and responsible person will let you know if there is a chance of that interest being reciprocated. If they don't know ... give them time to evaluate. If they STILL don't know ... move on. You should find someone who is capable of returning your affection.

[JohnDoe]

My post seems to have vanished.
H
1) How long does it take for an INFJ to let someone inside their inner sanctum?.
For me I have been told about 4 years.





JohnDoe added to this post, 0 minutes and 58 seconds later...

I am an INFJ married to (I finally figured it out by observation and learning the differences between INTJ and INTP) an INTJ.

I always was able to give my heart and trust quickly if I sensed the connection was there.
We often know more about you then you do, so I'll second this.





JohnDoe added to this post, 1 minutes and 9 seconds later...

This is exactly what I am doing at this moment. In my opinion, it should encourage the INFJ to reciprocate (limited success so far); however, as CJ pointed out, being too open can also end quite badly. Pure logic doesn't seem to work as expected in this situation...

Open and honest is good. Making yourself vulnerable always builds friendships. Or gets you killed.





JohnDoe added to this post, 1 minutes and 55 seconds later...


I have told her a couple of weeks before that I like her and would like to have everything develop into a real long-term relationship, so it is now essentially up to her to choose whether to accept that - to what she responded with that "she stills feels that I am a bit of a stranger" part I mentioned in the original post. Therefore, she knows my feelings and my intentions. Could it be a helpful or a scary thing for her?
.
It means that she still feels your a bit of a stranger. A few weeks? Give it time.

Try reading Speaker for the dead/xenocide (and obviously Ender's game if you haven't. Ender is a stereotypical INFJ).

[Ocean Machine]

I have a couple questions about an INFJ woman that I'm really confused about. However, because of the circumstances I'm reluctant to discuss it on the board. Any INFJ's out there willing to help a brother out? If so, send me a PM.

[JohnDoe]

I have a couple questions about an INFJ woman that I'm really confused about. However, because of the circumstances I'm reluctant to discuss it on the board. Any INFJ's out there willing to help a brother out? If so, send me a PM.

Yeah PM me.

[Ocean Machine]

Yeah PM me.

PM sent

[yepunsarang]

Oh no problem nightfire! I hope things work out real well for you!!! :) Oh Ocean Machine, you can pm me too! I'm sorta busy, but i'd love to try and help at least a little. Nightfire, if you have anymore questions about INFJs, keep posting!

[elsdfr]

Hi, I've been seeing an INFJ for a few weeks and one thing has me wondering. It started with her dropping questions randomly asking direct questions of me, about herself, and what I thought about them. It has me a bit wrong footed as I haven't really seen this kind of directness from a GF before so I'm fine with just finding these things out over time. But just the other day after not seeing her for a day or three she sent me an email of another ten things she felt she had to somehow confess to me. I mean fair enough she wants to know if I really like her but it's kind of killing the mystery for me and I'm not sure how to take it. Sure she could be doing it to test me and make sure she doesn't get hurt when I might find out but really what's wrong with just being herself? Is she just an insecure INFJ and how should I be responding to her when really I don't care what she had done/did before we met? The kind of confessions are about her thoughts, fantasies and general self like that.

I sometimes think it seems like me and being tired of meeting people who just don't understand me. So I did tell her that I know what it's like but she seems to still persist in making sure I'm OK with it all and in such a short time frame.

[ricearoni]

Sure she could be doing it to test me and make sure she doesn't get hurt when I might find out but really what's wrong with just being herself?

I think that might just be what she's doing. I know a couple of times, I've shared some silly (though still somewhat embarrassing) stuff about myself to see how a guy would react to it.

Still, it wasn't something that I did often and it definitely wasn't about major stuff. Deep dark secrets are reserved for when I feel that I trust the person enough or that the relationship would be affected if I didn't share that information with them.

So I'm not sure what you should do if she starts spewing stuff out again. I think you could just ask her what's going on. Let her know that you enjoy getting to know her and like what you've found out so far. Also let her know that she doesn't have to make confessions about her past to you as if you were some sort of priest, because you're not judging her. Hopefully she'll ease up on that stuff.

[Sinequanon]

Hi, I've been seeing an INFJ for a few weeks and one thing has me wondering. It started with her dropping questions randomly asking direct questions of me, about herself, and what I thought about them. It has me a bit wrong footed as I haven't really seen this kind of directness from a GF before so I'm fine with just finding these things out over time. But just the other day after not seeing her for a day or three she sent me an email of another ten things she felt she had to somehow confess to me. I mean fair enough she wants to know if I really like her but it's kind of killing the mystery for me and I'm not sure how to take it. Sure she could be doing it to test me and make sure she doesn't get hurt when I might find out but really what's wrong with just being herself? Is she just an insecure INFJ and how should I be responding to her when really I don't care what she had done/did before we met? The kind of confessions are about her thoughts, fantasies and general self like that.

I sometimes think it seems like me and being tired of meeting people who just don't understand me. So I did tell her that I know what it's like but she seems to still persist in making sure I'm OK with it all and in such a short time frame.
Would you say she was moving way too fast with things in general or just information sharing? Do you think perhaps she was sharing so much to sort of say "Here are my faults, now hurry up and get to the part where you reject me?"?

I dated an INFJ for a couple of weeks and it was a very sort of torrential thing where I learned a lot about her in a very short amount of time because she was so excited that someone "got" her (and I did), and she just didn't really know what to do with herself. I also recognized a lot of what I'd done in prior relationships in her (things that I'd "fixed" about myself, hopefully).

[elsdfr]

Haha torrential is a good way of explaining it and I'm all for efficiency so I guess this is a form of it... avoids misconceptions. But how do you know to trust someone with this information?? I didn't quite get that but I'm sure some people think they can tell. But yes, she has eased up on it.

I also recognized a lot of what I'd done in prior relationships in her (things that I'd "fixed" about myself, hopefully).

Care to share?

[Sinequanon]

Care to share?
Not particularly...

[JohnDoe]

Haha torrential is a good way of explaining it and I'm all for efficiency so I guess this is a form of it... avoids misconceptions. But how do you know to trust someone with this information?? I didn't quite get that but I'm sure some people think they can tell. But yes, she has eased up on it.


INFJ's are very good at "just knowing" who to trust.

[Eric86]

I dated an INFJ for a couple of weeks and it was a very sort of torrential thing where I learned a lot about her in a very short amount of time because she was so excited that someone "got" her (and I did), and she just didn't really know what to do with herself.
lol, I know what that's like very well, cause I do it too, getting all excited and whatnot, like you described. It works out for the best in the end, though, especially if the other person really likes that.:)