Does anyone also do this in a social situation?

[Beefsnibit]

Often when me and another person get into an arguement I just can't think of anything to say, but when I get away from the person and situation, I instantly think of all these great comebacks and points I could have made.

It also happens when someone new approaches me and trys to talk to me, I say hi and little other stupid things, but as soon as I get away from them, the perfect greetings appear in my mind.

This is very frustrating because I want those things right then when I need them, not after the situation is over. I think it may be caused by the adrenaline rush from the anxiety that causes the slowed response, but i'm not sure.

[Tigress]

I hear you. I don't think mine is pronounced, but I can think of so many clever and witty things I could have said in a given situation.

It happens especially after I'm done teaching. I say to myself "OH I could have explained that reaction (chemistry) much better another way"

[jerr]

Yes, I think most people experience "delayed problem solving" at some point in their life.

I'm currently reading a book on the subject of how the thinking process all works in your brain, very interesting read: Refactor Your Thinking: Pragmatic Thinking and Learning

The theory being:
You essentially have two ways of thinking, the L-Mode and the R-Mode (which correspond to different sections of your brain, left and right.) L-Mode is useful for interpreting language, analyzing, being rational and logical, but the R-Mode is much better at synthesis, concrete, spatial, intuitive and holistic.

In this situation, you're arguing with someone, you're concentrating very hard at finding arguments to shut the person up... the thing is: you're probably too focused on specific ways to tackle the problem using patterns you already know and sometimes you end up looking at the wrong place for an argument. You're in L-Mode (and obviously a little stressed by the pressure of finding the argument.)

Then you wonder off doing something else, not thinking too much about the argument and your R-Mode kicks in, testing new solutions with different approach and different stored data. You find new answers to old problems and such when simply not thinking about it.

Basically, I think it's normal to find better answers when given more time. Not only you actually have more time to explore possibilities, but you also engage in a subconscious activity that is uncontrolable and usually untrained!

[Beefsnibit]

Yes, I think most people experience "delayed problem solving" at some point in their life.

I'm currently reading a book on the subject of how the thinking process all works in your brain, very interesting read: Refactor Your Thinking: Pragmatic Thinking and Learning

The theory being:
You essentially have two ways of thinking, the L-Mode and the R-Mode (which correspond to different sections of your brain, left and right.) L-Mode is useful for interpreting language, analyzing, being rational and logical, but the R-Mode is much better at synthesis, concrete, spatial, intuitive and holistic.

In this situation, you're arguing with someone, you're concentrating very hard at finding arguments to shut the person up... the thing is: you're probably too focused on specific ways to tackle the problem using patterns you already know and sometimes you end up looking at the wrong place for an argument. You're in L-Mode (and obviously a little stressed by the pressure of finding the argument.)

Then you wonder off doing something else, not thinking too much about the argument and your R-Mode kicks in, testing new solutions with different approach and different stored data. You find new answers to old problems and such when simply not thinking about it.

Basically, I think it's normal to find better answers when given more time. Not only you actually have more time to explore possibilities, but you also engage in a subconscious activity that is uncontrolable and usually untrained!
Thanks for that bit of info, it certainly has enlightened me a bit about why I do that.

[Kisai]

It's possible that you're talking too quickly and getting too heated to think properly.

Slow down your speech. Pause dramatically. Trust your intuition to build cases for you.
Arguing is a skill set. The more you practice, the better you get. Study logical fallacies and learn to recognize them.

[LaoTzu]

I've felt that way many times, with age/experience those occasions come less frequent.

The look into brain function leads me to wonder if you could stimulate the Right side of your brain in some simple way during those situations to get it more actively involved in helping you get the most out of your brain...

This (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) shows music/Art/imagination as 'right side' functions of the brain. Maybe you can test out singing a little song in your mind when this situation is apparent to you; and see if you can activate the right side to the betterment of those interactions....


I'd also suggest taking deep measured breaths when you feel flustered.

[jerr]

Arguing is a skill set. The more you practice, the better you get. Study logical fallacies and learn to recognize them.
Hmm, I had never seen it that way... I sort of had given up on the whole argumenting and just kept things to myself.

I might just get a book or something on logical fallacies!

The look into brain function leads me to wonder if you could stimulate the Right side of your brain in some simple way during those situations to get it more actively involved in helping you get the most out of your brain...
From what I read, the best way to stimulate the right half of your brain is to stimulate your other senses with problem-solving. Although I can see this being a problem when argumenting, you can't really start whistling or anything when talking with someone!

[Beefsnibit]

I've felt that way many times, with age/experience those occasions come less frequent.

The look into brain function leads me to wonder if you could stimulate the Right side of your brain in some simple way during those situations to get it more actively involved in helping you get the most out of your brain...

This (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) shows music/Art/imagination as 'right side' functions of the brain. Maybe you can test out singing a little song in your mind when this situation is apparent to you; and see if you can activate the right side to the betterment of those interactions....


I'd also suggest taking deep measured breaths when you feel flustered.
I'll have to keep that in mind, thanks!

[Deadgod]

It's possible that you're talking too quickly and getting too heated to think properly.

Slow down your speech. Pause dramatically. Trust your intuition to build cases for you.
Arguing is a skill set. The more you practice, the better you get. Study logical fallacies and learn to recognize them.

The most L-mode thing said.

Also, is it even about winning an argument? Or about accepting what is logical and rational?

[annaelizabeth]

hmmm, I do this quite often. I am pretty slow to react when arguing with someone so later, when the perfect response comes into my mind, I think, crap! I wish I'd said that!

[jerr]

Also, is it even about winning an argument? Or about accepting what is logical and rational?
I think your right on this. Personnally I don't care for winning, I care for the truth, the good reasoning. I don't mind telling someone he's right.

[Perf]

I'm still pretty bad at this on occasion, but one thing I do that seems to work is to listen to what the other person has to say, then start asking either related or unrelated questions. If I haven't quite got a grasp on what he's asking and what my response should be, a pause followed by a somewhat related question will buy me time. This is essential when someone is pressuring you to respond or if it's an opinion question.

An unrelated question will help if it's most of a knowledge (yes/no) question. It will also buy you time, but not clutter your brain with more pertinent knowledge while you're working out the answer. Take a walk with the person while asking and answering these questions, to buy you more time and to increase blood flow. It's best if you can walk outside as well. As you go, keep on track either talking or thinking, the answer will appear somewhere as long as the discussion is linear.

These tips should help you, although there will still be some things that go over your head and need to be thought out. Don't worry, though; you're an INTJ and this is good. And experience and practice, like others have pointed out, are helpful too.

[imNormal]

I do this all the time. I have a long commute each day, so I spend a lot of time rehashing things in my mind... hoping the next time in a similar situation, I'll respond better. I really don't like arguing with people, so I tend to think in terms of how I could have prevented an argument on the rare occasions I get involved in one.

I once read that the person that asks the questions controls the conversation. I have found that to be true and very helpful, since I do experience social anxiety as well. Asking questions takes the focus off of me and puts it on the person I'm having the discussion with. Its also a great way of getting educated as opposed to trying to educate the other person. In the course of the conversation, if the facts support my position, that generally comes out, and conversely, if the facts support the other person's view, then I learn something without feeling like a dork for being 'wrong'!

[Shikaze]

Yeah, I experience that too. I found a remedy. It's not as effective but it helps. Try listening (no sarcasm) this revelation left me spaced out for like an hour. Focus on what that person is saying and at the same time, the next probable thing that he/she will say.

[reb]

most arguments are not worth the effort, unless you can say something that makes someone question. especially if they question their own position. if the arguer has no power over the arguee....then who gives a shit (wgas)? frequently, i let people be 'as right as they can stand', and let them pay the price. i don't feel the need to 'be right' all the time; i can 'be wrong' and live with myself just fine.

otoh, if someone comes up with a thoughtful idea about something we're discussing, i try to file it away for future reference.

when i used to feel the need to argue, i had that 'delayed response'. frustrating...it led to me thinking 'why do i care to make a counterpoint to a closed mind anyway?', which led to 'wgas'. arguing is a sign of insecurity, i think; debating is a pasttime or hobby. the difference, in my mind, is that in debate 'i have no ownership' of the matter in question. i.e., i have no need to 'be right'. i do still have a need to throw ideas out, but i don't care if someone adopts any of them, or not.

[Nomadofthehills]

"Oh yea? Well the JERK STORE CALLED, AND THEY'RE RUNNING OUT OF YOU!"
-George Costanza

[Beefsnibit]

I think your right on this. Personnally I don't care for winning, I care for the truth, the good reasoning. I don't mind telling someone he's right.No, it's about things I know to be correct, I don't argue if I know for a fact that i'm wrong.

[Asinine]

Yes, I have this problem in general when speaking. And, a related side effect is that I also for the most part can not remember names when I am speaking. I suspect it has to do with socialization and problem solving being handled by two different cognitive functions, if not two different hemispheres of the brain.

Or, to put it in the terms of this personality framework, our internal thought processes are stronger than our external ones. And, other people don't reside inside of us.

[avicula]

This also happens to me regularly, especially when I feel some kind of social pressure (which is almost always the case in social situations). I remember one occasion, 7 years ago (!), when I was participating in a high school exchange program. I ended up in a host family in Wallonia (French-speaking Belgium). We were sitting at the kitchen table when the mother said to her daughter: "Il est un peu timide, non?" And the daughter answered: "Oui, bien sûr: il doit parler dans une autre langue."
My French was good enough at the time to understand what they said ("He is a little shy, isn't he?" "Yes of course: he has to speak in another language"). But I pretended that I didn't and said nothing. Later I knew I should have responded "Non, je suis toujours un peu timide" ("No, I am always a bit shy") and look at their faces. I still regret I didn't do that.

The L and R-Mode theory looks insightful to me, and it could help explain some other problems I struggle with, but I strongly doubt if the separation between the two hemispheres is so clear-cut. I don't think you can really think or feel with only one side of your brain, and then switch to the other side. I think it's much more integrated.

btw: hello

[jerr]

The L and R-Mode theory looks insightful to me, and it could help explain some other problems I struggle with, but I strongly doubt if the separation between the two hemispheres is so clear-cut. I don't think you can really think or feel with only one side of your brain, and then switch to the other side. I think it's much more integrated.
It's still too early in mankind's research on its on brain to say. But because of the neuro-plasticity (the property which enables the neurons to rearrange themselves with training to be more efficient) of the brain, I guess "everything" is "all-over."

[tp6626]

All the time this happens to me.

A recent example, someone at work was trying to imply that I take twice as long completing tasks as others in my area of the office.

What I had in my head didn't come out too well when I said it, but it was along the lines of saying that everything I completed was to a high standard and worked first time. It's very rare anything I work on turns out less than satisfactory.

And I outlined a number of bad outcomes of others' work that had cost time or money.

Only when I got home that night did I come up with a concise line that would have summarised that explanation well. What I should have said is:

"So what you're effectively saying, is that you only do half the job?".

I would have loved to hear the response to that!

[rara avis]

All the time this happens to me.

A recent example, someone at work was trying to imply that I take twice as long completing tasks as others in my area of the office.

What I had in my head didn't come out too well when I said it, but it was along the lines of saying that everything I completed was to a high standard and worked first time. It's very rare anything I work on turns out less than satisfactory.

And I outlined a number of bad outcomes of others' work that had cost time or money.

Only when I got home that night did I come up with a concise line that would have summarised that explanation well. What I should have said is:

"So what you're effectively saying, is that you only do half the job?".

I would have loved to hear the response to that!

I've had that conversation many times - I identify the issue as "quantity vs. quality". Most coworkers can wrap their heads around that without bristling.

[ercaras]

It's possible that you're talking too quickly and getting too heated to think properly.

Slow down your speech. Pause dramatically. Trust your intuition to build cases for you.
Arguing is a skill set. The more you practice, the better you get. Study logical fallacies and learn to recognize them.

;)


At work, delayed solutions are so out. Once you say something, you have to stick to it and you make sure that everything you say is strong and impenetrable. At unexpected situations, it never hurts to pause for a while. THey won't think you're stupid or something because you'll say something really big and logical and rational in a while anyways! Hehehe.