The Indecisive INTJ Male (advice please) [Archive]

ricearoni

01-30-2009, 07:09 AM

I've been plagued with rose-colored glasses syndrome, so maybe someone can look at this situation with more clarity and set me straight.

I met my INTJ friend 3 years ago, online (we live on opposing sides of the country). After a year we decided to meet and sort of hit it off. But soon after, he decided that he didn't have feelings for me in that way and we should be 'pen pals'. So we stayed pen pals, writing to each other daily.

A year after that, he said that he lied and that he was SURE that he had feelings for me. Blamed his reaction on fear because a previous LDR had ended miserably. So once again, we met up. The first day was amazing, with lots of affection from him. I got the feeling that he was more into me than I had thought. The second day got weird and at the end of the night he decided it wasn't going to work out.

Over the next few months, I tried to figure out why. He gave reasons, like nothing in common, not having the same friends and poor communication. Basically, bullsh!t with a hint of truth. When I pointed out how some things were never an issue before or even disproved any of it, he said I was being argumentative. So finally, I gave up and agreed to being friends. My last question to him regarding us, was if he cared about me. He said yes.

Well it's been almost a year since we last saw each other and the same patterns are starting to emerge. The emails are getting longer (sometimes he'll send 2 or 3 a day), he keeps asking to chat on AIM (making an effort to be online earlier because of the time difference) and also has started texting me pictures of his projects. He's even tried to make the conversation more personal by sharing some of his feelings. So when he asked me what he should do with his vacation time, I assumed he wanted to meet up because that was part of the pattern.

WRONG. The past week has been just a bunch of wishy-washy talk about visiting me, that finally ended with him deciding to stay at home.

What the heck? He doesn't want to see me, but yet he's all for consuming massive amounts of my time? He's still asking to chat on AIM, still writing those long letters and prodding me for opinions and ideas. And he's being unbelievably agreeable and even FLIRTY!

Is he still trying to gather information on me? I mean really, how long could this go on? Usually, if someone is so indecisive, that means they're not really interested. Is that the case? Am I foolishly hoping that he's just unsure, when really there isn't anything there?

Necrosis

01-30-2009, 07:20 AM

I can't really say. Personally I wouldn't do anything until someone told me they like me which I'm assuming you did. Then I'd be ok with expressing myself if and only if I knew it stood a chance at working. How old is he out of curiousity?

If i was in your position, I would just move past it and stay friends. I would never do that back and forth so I can't speak for him.

ricearoni

01-30-2009, 07:26 AM

LaoTzu

01-30-2009, 07:44 AM

He sounds vaguely familiar.... lol... But in my case, I show a lot more concern for other people's feelings. I wouldn't say or do anything that I wouldn't be comfortable with in reality. And I'd never deliberately lead someone on.

I'm not sure what the hang-up is that this guy has, obviously some severe commitment issues.... I mean, come on.... you don't feel comfortable spending a week with someone you like because .... what? ... you just "don't like people" ? lol!!! I think he's just "using" you (but not in the traditional sense) for that confidence boost. He's taking you to those conclusions NOT because he want's to go through with seeing you or travelling but because he wants to know if he CAN. For me, knowing I can is sometimes as valuable as actually doing something....

Seriously... just move along when you feel like it. Don't expect so much, that person has played their hand, and you see them for how they are. It's not his hangup anymore, now it's yours. Let it go if it's too uncomfortable, expect nothing more than pen-pals.

Sinequanon

01-30-2009, 07:45 AM

What the heck? He doesn't want to see me, but yet he's all for consuming massive amounts of my time? He's still asking to chat on AIM, still writing those long letters and prodding me for opinions and ideas. And he's being unbelievably agreeable and even FLIRTY!

Is he still trying to gather information on me? I mean really, how long could this go on? Usually, if someone is so indecisive, that means they're not really interested. Is that the case? Am I foolishly hoping that he's just unsure, when really there isn't anything there?
Wow, talk about the gender roles being reversed.

I tend to think if a guy says he's not into you, for whatever reason, then you should probably move on. If you feel like, even as a friend, he's taking up too much of your time (which is understandable), then you have every right to pull back. If he asks why, be up front with him - you have your own life, too. It's not like you never offered to share it with him.

ricearoni

01-30-2009, 08:13 AM

I'm not sure what the hang-up is that this guy has, obviously some severe commitment issues.... I mean, come on.... you don't feel comfortable spending a week with someone you like because .... what? ... you just "don't like people" ? lol!!! I think he's just "using" you (but not in the traditional sense) for that confidence boost. He's taking you to those conclusions NOT because he want's to go through with seeing you or travelling but because he wants to know if he CAN. For me, knowing I can is sometimes as valuable as actually doing something....

Hmm. I kind of think he's afraid of being bored and left alone. He seems to flounder when he's in foreign places alone. Like he can't figure out where to go to keep himself entertained, unless it's real obvious. But then maybe I'm just making more excuses for his behavior.

It's interesting that you bring up being used. Sometimes I do feel that he only writes to me because I'm some form of entertainment.

Wow, talk about the gender roles being reversed.

Yeah...oooh yeah. There have been many times where I felt like I was the guy and he was the girl.

I tend to think if a guy says he's not into you, for whatever reason, then you should probably move on. If you feel like, even as a friend, he's taking up too much of your time (which is understandable), then you have every right to pull back. If he asks why, be up front with him - you have your own life, too. It's not like you never offered to share it with him.

Normally, I'd just disappear and maybe reappear if I felt like it, but I'm kind of angry about his decision to stay home. Would it be a bad idea to actually talk to him about this?

Headcase

01-30-2009, 11:10 AM

Hi ricearoni,

My thoughts are that you should move along. A partner that blows hot and cold on you is always trouble, and will leave your self esteem in tatters as you try to work out what you did wrong this time. He's obviously in two minds about you. That's not good enough, IMO. Do yourself a favor.

Sinequanon

01-30-2009, 11:23 AM

Yeah...oooh yeah. There have been many times where I felt like I was the guy and he was the girl.

Normally, I'd just disappear and maybe reappear if I felt like it, but I'm kind of angry about his decision to stay home. Would it be a bad idea to actually talk to him about this?
You can't really argue someone into being with you :\

I'm currently on your end of someone not wanting to be in a LDR with me, and I understand what you mean. I'd move the ends of the earth to be with the right person, but it's something that you can't force. At some point you have to figure out how much exposure and how much of yourself you can give to him while making sure you're protecting yourself.

greenblob

01-30-2009, 11:56 AM

I don't think I have enough information to be sure, but from what's been said, it seems like he's just lonely and wants to really hold on to every personal relationship he has.

wotsamattaU

01-30-2009, 12:26 PM

Normally, I'd just disappear and maybe reappear if I felt like it, but I'm kind of angry about his decision to stay home. Would it be a bad idea to actually talk to him about this?

I agree that you are offering him a validation and intimacy which he is not receiving elsewhere. By remaining penpals he can have these perks while still feeling 'safe' for whatever reasons.

I would definitely bring up your anger and ask him flat out what he is playing at. Don't let him avoid the question. Make him face what he is doing and how it is affecting you. It's as much for his own good as it is for yours.

His actions do not inspire confidence in this relationship moving forward. This wishy-washiness is maddening. I would be livid and hurt over this vacation ordeal. Have you asked him what he is afraid of? Why he decided to stay at home after asking you what he should do? Don't accept a non-answer.

I say in general, when someone monopolizes your time and thoughts yet can not return what it is you need - it is time to move on.

If you come to this conclusion, I would tell him flat out that this penpal relationship is monopolizing your time (& emotional investment) which you should be utilizing in finding your own significant other. It is unfair to you to hold you back in this way. Make a clean break, but let him know why.

You deserve someone who can return your feelings - and he is out there.

ricearoni

01-30-2009, 12:34 PM

You can't really argue someone into being with you :\

I'm currently on your end of someone not wanting to be in a LDR with me, and I understand what you mean. I'd move the ends of the earth to be with the right person, but it's something that you can't force. At some point you have to figure out how much exposure and how much of yourself you can give to him while making sure you're protecting yourself.

Agreed. It's definitely how I'd like a relationship to start either. I guess I meant that I'd like talk to him about the hot and cold stuff. Let him know that what he said was insulting? Hm...it seems so pointless and I think I maybe just talked myself out of it right now.

And this might seem strange, but a part of me thinks that he's just waiting for me to say something like, "look, you're my b/f now, stop being so stupid". I wouldn't dare do that of course, but if there was ever someone who could be reasoned into a relationship, he seems like that person.

I don't think I have enough information to be sure, but from what's been said, it seems like he's just lonely and wants to really hold on to every personal relationship he has.

Interesting angle. Why do you say that?
I mean I think I could see that, he is getting older and most of his friends are getting married off or occupied with their careers. He hasn't been going out as much lately either, but still every weekend he's spending it with some friends and he seems content there.

ricearoni added to this post, 4 minutes and 30 seconds later...

I agree that you are offering him a validation and intimacy which he is not receiving elsewhere. By remaining penpals he can have these perks while still feeling 'safe' for whatever reasons.

I would definitely bring up your anger and ask him flat out what he is playing at. Don't let him avoid the question. Make him face what he is doing and how it is affecting you. It's as much for his own good as it is for yours.

His actions do not inspire confidence in this relationship moving forward. This wishy-washiness is maddening. I would be livid and hurt over this vacation ordeal. Have you asked him what he is afraid of? Why he decided to stay at home after asking you what he should do? Don't accept a non-answer.

I say in general, when someone monopolizes your time and thoughts yet can not return what it is you need - it is time to move on.

If you come to this conclusion, I would tell him flat out that this penpal relationship is monopolizing your time (& emotional investment) which you should be utilizing in finding your own significant other. It is unfair to you to hold you back in this way. Make a clean break, but let him know why.

You deserve someone who can return your feelings - and he is out there.

Wow! Thank you!

No, I haven't asked him, but that's what I was wanting to do. I've just been so unsure about it because I thought maybe it would be too pushy. That since we had agreed to be friends, my disappointment was a little unwarranted.

SRVcardsfan27

01-30-2009, 12:37 PM

I can kind of relate to him. I think maybe what the problem is, is that he is used to being pen pals, and loves that role and is comfortable with it. When he's taken out of that realm, he may initially think he wants to be, but when he's actually in the process of doing it, he just wants to go back to what he is used to because it's too overwhelming and kind of awkward. He doesn't really know how to relate to you or function in real life situation. I think it would just take time for him to get used to it, but of course, he'd have to be in the real-life situation for that to happen.

If he consistently writes you (and now 2-3 times a day as you say), I think he is interested, but the prospect of just having a girlfriend and committing could be a big step for him, although deep down he wants it, but since he's not used to dealing with that sort of thing, he decides he can deal with loneliness better.

I know when I've had the chance to start a relationship, I thought I wanted it, but when it becomes a real certainty, I regress.

EDIT: I've noticed when I really want to be with someone, it can drive me crazy, but when I've got it or know I can, I lose interest in it. Not because I necessarily want to, that's just the way it happens sometimes.

Has he ever had a relationship in the past?

ricearoni

01-30-2009, 12:41 PM

I know when I've had the chance to start a relationship, I thought I wanted it, but when it becomes a real certainty, I regress.

Has he ever had a relationship in the past?

Do you ever just stick it out and try to make it work?

And yeah he's had a couple of relationships, long term ones too. He says it was amicable, but I think the end of the last relationship he had bothered him more than he lets on

MaleVolentworld

01-30-2009, 12:45 PM

SRVcardsfan27

01-30-2009, 12:45 PM

Do you ever just stick it out and try to make it work?

And yeah he's had a couple of long term ones too. He says it was amicable, but I think the end of the last relationship he had bothered him more than he lets on

I've actually never been in a relationship and that's a primary reason. It just makes me feel weird.

If he's had previous relationships, I don't really know, as I haven't experienced that. I think his feelings probably still could have a profound impact over it, though. And how did he meet these girls? Probably not by the same means as he met you, so the environment could play a role, too.

curiousjane

01-30-2009, 12:47 PM

Your situation is unique to you, but I have seen that once an INTJ decides something is not possible, it is not possible. Period. There may be a time of internal struggle about this decision, possibly even pre-dating the decision. In this case, it seems like some post-dated internal struggle.

He's sending you confusing signals. On the one hand, being friendly and flirty and in need of continuous contact. On the other ... reserved and indecisive about you and your relationship with him.

The fact that he wants to spend so much time talking or writing to you seems to indicate he values your input and your company, as long as it is informal and undefined and on his terms. Do you see what is happening? He can't pull away from enjoying you online, but he can't reconcile that with the real life commitments required to actually move a long-distance relationship along. Unless one or the other of you can move (and soon), this is going to be a constant battle.

Unfortunately, it isn't a wise idea to move just to date someone.

I'm sure he is a wonderful guy, or you wouldn't have invested so much time in him thus far. But my personal experience has been that this kind of situation does not end in a happy relationship. As you know, I was in a similar (though not as long) quasi-LDR with an INTJ and his final choice, after months of indecision, was to sever all ties. Granted, I was the one with more emotional investment at the time. But I know that the conversational connection we felt while talking on the phone or in emails was great. It just wasn't ENOUGH.

For your sake, I hope that this situation is resolved better than mine was. But I will say this ... going through that made me much more aware of what I was looking for in a relationship. And I have since found out that dating a guy who is quite intentional about wanting to be with you is fabulous! The difference is night and day. I don't have questions about how things are going, or his behavior, because it all happens naturally and the answers unfold before the questions have time to surface.

All my best to a fellow NF!

greenblob

01-30-2009, 12:57 PM

Interesting angle. Why do you say that?
I mean I think I could see that, he is getting older and most of his friends are getting married off or occupied with their careers. He hasn't been going out as much lately either, but still every weekend he's spending it with some friends and he seems content there.

Well, that seems to disprove my theory...
I was just drawing from my own experiences. When I feel left out and lonely, I start to latch on to my close friends, emailing and IMing daily and such. When I started college, I would overtax the few friends I made and be clingy, I guess in part to validate that I do have friends and I'm not a complete loser.

ricearoni

01-30-2009, 01:01 PM

I don't think he is treating you very well at all and that you deserve so much better. If you want to be his friend then fine, but I wouldn't waste any more time holding out for anything more.

Maybe you should just give him an ultimatum and let him know how you feel and what you want.

Honestly, women are wasting their time on men like this, and here I am single wanting a woman to give some love to.

I know, I shouldn't be wasting my time like that. Sorry.
But if you were him, how would you respond to an ultimatum?

I've actually never been in a relationship and that's a primary reason. It just makes me feel weird.

If he's had previous relationships, I don't really know, as I haven't experienced that. I think his feelings probably still could have a profound impact over it, though. And how did he meet these girls? Probably not by the same means as he met you, so the environment could play a role, too.

I know for sure one was in college, another someone he met at work. Not really sure about the others.

For your sake, I hope that this situation is resolved better than mine was. But I will say this ... going through that made me much more aware of what I was looking for in a relationship. And I have since found out that dating a guy who is quite intentional about wanting to be with you is fabulous! The difference is night and day. I don't have questions about how things are going, or his behavior, because it all happens naturally and the answers unfold before the questions have time to surface.

All my best to a fellow NF!

Thanks. That's something that's been eating away at me for quite some time. I keep wondering if my time would be better spent with someone less confusing.

wotsamattaU

01-30-2009, 01:04 PM

No, I haven't asked him, but that's what I was wanting to do. I've just been so unsure about it because I thought maybe it would be too pushy. That since we had agreed to be friends, my disappointment was a little unwarranted.

If a friend of mine was that wishy washy over vacation plans to be shared with me, I'd still be very angry.

A friend would want to know why their friend did not follow through. Your disappointment is not unwarranted. I would call him out on this. Don't let him sweep it under the carpet. He's being consistently confusing and getting away with it. This is unfair to you, and himself if he pulled back and looked it at fully.

You are both being shortchanged in this friendship. It is holding you both back from greater things.

The longer he stays in this safe cocoon of his own creation, the longer he avoids finding himself a lifetime partner. It works both ways. It is unfair to you both ultimately.

If you are experiencing anger, trust your instincts on this. Confront him and make him see his behavior is confusing, unfair and unkind. Right now he isn't seeing it that way. His actions are selfish.

alphawolf

01-30-2009, 02:07 PM

A partner that blows hot and cold on you is always trouble, and will leave your self esteem in tatters as you try to work out what you did wrong this time.

== narcissist

Stay away.

brainysmurf

01-30-2009, 03:30 PM

I met my INTJ friend 3 years ago...
... also has started texting me pictures of his projects. ...
... still writing those long letters and prodding me for opinions and ideas.

Three years and almost daily communication sounds like a huge time investment for a pan pal to me. If he wants to be just pan pals I would limit the communication to no more than a letter or a call a week.

I would read too much into him asking you about your opinion on projects and ideas, that's just part of his personality (NT). It is most likely not his intention to signal anything, I guess he just wants to reflect his ideas by "thinking out loud".

Shinqui

01-30-2009, 03:36 PM

Well, all I see here is fear, dishonesty, commitment issues, selfishness and extreme introversion. You'd best move on. There's a sea of lonely INTJ men here, talk to one of them. :p

SeaCzar

01-30-2009, 03:57 PM

From what I am getting from all of this....

You're being played like a new deck of cards. It may or may not be intentional and/or malicious, but you're being played nonetheless. My advice: Don't play.

Sesquipedalian

01-30-2009, 04:19 PM

It sounds like he enjoys thinking about a relationship more than actually being in one.

My advice? Tell him you need a break and that you're tired of mixed signals. You can't keep letting him screw with your heart like that.

ElstonGunn

01-30-2009, 05:08 PM

Your situation is unique to you, but I have seen that once an INTJ decides something is not possible, it is not possible. Period.

INTJs come in several flavors, but that being said, I disagree. I think very, very few people are ever 100 percent sure about anything. That's especially true when the brain and the heart have different opinions.

It sounds like he's very interested in you, but on a more detached or logical level, he sees problems with the situation. Half the time, the problems look insurmountable, and the other half of the time, he thinks that he and you could figure out how to deal with them.

From the way I'm looking at it, that would explain why he was initially enthused when he was with you, but by the end of the trip, he was more pessimistic. At the beginning of the visit, he's got the whole thing ahead of him. It's exciting, and he's got time to enjoy it. When the trip is about to end, the fact that he won't be able to see you starts to become more realistic to him, which naturally influences his thought processes and makes him despondent. If he gives up on the relationship, he can move on. If he sticks with it, it will be strained and difficult.

Well, all I see here is fear, dishonesty, commitment issues, selfishness and extreme introversion. You'd best move on.

I don't know if I agree or disagree with this analysis, but unless you'd like to marry this guy, I think this is probably the best advice you're going to get. Otherwise, I don't see how making such an effort and dealing with the unavoidable difficulties that are an inherent part of this kind of relationship could be worth it.

Nomadofthehills

01-31-2009, 09:53 AM

ricearoni

01-31-2009, 08:30 PM

I'd like to thank everyone for their responses. :) Though most of the advice seemed to share the same message, I think the nuances of each post helped me to see what could possibly be going through his mind. I think I have a better idea of what I should do. One last question though...

I don't know if I agree or disagree with this analysis, but unless you'd like to marry this guy, I think this is probably the best advice you're going to get. Otherwise, I don't see how making such an effort and dealing with the unavoidable difficulties that are an inherent part of this kind of relationship could be worth it.

Ok, let's say for some reason, I decide that it's worth the effort. Then what? How do I deal with whatever it is that's got him so divided?

alphawolf

02-01-2009, 04:03 AM

Ok, let's say for some reason, I decide that it's worth the effort. Then what? How do I deal with whatever it is that's got him so divided?

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

ricearoni

02-01-2009, 06:13 AM

Actually, the trick is to start drinking some water yourself and the horse will follow. Well, at least that's what I've been told.

zibber

02-01-2009, 06:40 AM

To me, it sounds like he enjoys the animosity of the internet setting, and would like to keep it that way.

I think this is spot on. The big difference between daily online and offline communication is the indirectness. Online communication is much less draining, basically. You're essentially free to do your own thing -unless there's a webcam, you're private-, and you get to type. It's much more attractive to the introvert, really.

ricearoni

02-01-2009, 06:16 PM

To me, it sounds like he enjoys the animosity of the internet setting, and would like to keep it that way. He may not find you attractive physically, perhaps just mentally. Or, he may be using you for social practice and support, as he sees you are somewhat attached to him, and he can let his walls down a bit.

I think this is spot on. The big difference between daily online and offline communication is the indirectness. Online communication is much less draining, basically. You're essentially free to do your own thing -unless there's a webcam, you're private-, and you get to type. It's much more attractive to the introvert, really.

Well in the past couple of months talk of meeting up has come up twice. The first time he brought it up, he was traveling to another country and had a rather long layover in my city. So we were supposed to meet up for lunch. The trip was canceled though. The other situation was the one I had described in my first post.

I don't think my looks are an issue or that he even needs social practice. He's introverted for sure, but he's got pretty good social skills. I could see him maybe coming to me for support or an ego boost though...
:undecided:

I've thought about this so much that I really can't be sure anymore.

alphawolf

02-02-2009, 12:13 AM

Actually, the trick is to start drinking some water yourself and the horse will follow. Well, at least that's what I've been told.

Don't worry, he'll be down on one knee before you know it. And you will think that she's not as pretty as you, etc.

questionableme

02-02-2009, 01:36 AM

I thought I'd input one more opinion if it's not too late:

I can see two possible interpretations. The first is that he's playing some sort of game. By this I mean that he finds his behavior sort of fun and interesting and he thinks you might enjoy playing the game along with him. He undoubtedly likes you as a friend, but whether he wants a romantic relationship is less clear (I'd guess either not or that he's conflicted).

The second possibility is that he wants to see you romantically, but that for whatever reason, he's feeling insecure about you or himself or how things will or won't work out. Let's face it, there are always a million things to worry about, and he may just be thinking about them too much.

In either case, I think the best thing to do is to be honest and direct, perhaps much more so than you're used to. Really, I wouldn't be afraid of being too forceful or pressing the issue repeatedly if you don't get a satisfactory answer. You need to make sure he knows you are very serious. Just explain your situation and make sure he understands it, and then have him explain his until you understand it. My guess is that he trusts you enough that with enough prodding he'll open up. Don't give up until you're settled.

As to how you should confront him, he'll probably be more comfortable if it is a more impersonal medium, like over AIM, which may help you get your answer with less tribulation all around. However, it will also be harder to tell what he's feeling, since you can't very well convey tone with a twelve point sans serif font and emoticons. The alternative is to go the more personal route, either in person or over the phone. This will make it abundantly clear that you want to have a serious and honest discussion, and it will give you a better sense of what he is feeling as well. However, my guess is that there will by much more dillydallying around the point, simply because it's less comfortable for him. It's your choice, but since it's hard to have a relationship without real conversations, I'd go the personal route.

Oh, and this probably goes without saying, but make sure you take it seriously, too. Be mentally prepared, and set aside some time because it may take awhile; you don't want to be interrupted.

I hope everything turns out well. And if not, then I apologize in advance for my terrible advice, but life goes on...

ricearoni

02-02-2009, 03:39 AM

Questionableme, thanks. That was actually rather thorough advice and I appreciate it. That's a good point about taking it seriously and being mentally prepared. I've had talks with him before and I think my problem is I always ended up confused because I didn't think through what it was I wanted to find out.

ricearoni

05-03-2009, 09:47 PM

So a couple of months ago, I asked my INTJ friend where we stood. Was I friend or was I someone he'd want to pursue more with? Well, he said that while he didn't have much hope, he would like to see what could happen. We agreed to meet up in the summer and for the past couple of months, things had been going nicely.

But after a rather awkward phone conversation last Sunday, he decided that that we would never work out and we should just remain friends. Today, I asked him why he changed his mind so quickly and why that one thing discredited everything else that was good. He said that he just didn't "feel it".

The rest of the conversation was pretty cold and heartless. I know stuff like that isn't supposed to be warm and fuzzy, but since I considered him a good friend, I thought he'd at least have enough sympathy to offer me an apology for all the sh!t he had put me through. Instead all I got was, "if you want to hate me, go ahead. I can accept that."

Bummer, because I didn't want to hate him. If there had been some compassion, a little more caring than, I feel bad that you think I was cruel (no! feel bad because I was hurt!)...I would've tried to make a friendship work. Oh well.

So there goes 3 years of friendship down the toilet.

JustMel

05-03-2009, 10:21 PM

Sympathy isn't something most INTJs are good with in general. Being that you share the INxJ he probably figured you'd get the logic.

Why do you have to kill the friendship because he decided he didn't want to continue to pursue the relationship? I once made a decision with a guy I was dating to stop dating and just be friends because we were headed to a point where we'd have hated one another if we stayed a couple.

At least he was honest in telling you he didn't "feel it" as opposed to leading you on. Will you regret the decision to just toss aside the years of friendship because the relationship didn't work out?

Anton

05-03-2009, 11:12 PM

Seems to me like he's operating out fear. He probably longs for you big time. But he's probably so afraid of someth, that he isn't even going for it.

If he's anything like me, the idea of a relationship failure is like a bomb hovering over his head. Any moment the bomb could drop/explode. So instead of living with the fear; some relief (and a habit of failure) can be found by choosing to get it done and over with ("this isn't going to work") instead of choosing the less traveled route with all the "what ifs", or whatever other insecurities or other issues/habits we've learned from previous relationships.

I think this is normal behavior. You need to protect yourself from certain things, but sometimes that self defense can be taken to the extreme. Preventing you from ever reaching success, until you can learn to deal with the fear. I don't know. I'm no expert or anything but this is the just one of many angles to look from.

ricearoni

05-04-2009, 05:53 AM

Why do you have to kill the friendship because he decided he didn't want to continue to pursue the relationship? I once made a decision with a guy I was dating to stop dating and just be friends because we were headed to a point where we'd have hated one another if we stayed a couple.

At least he was honest in telling you he didn't "feel it" as opposed to leading you on. Will you regret the decision to just toss aside the years of friendship because the relationship didn't work out?

I think I'm just really hurt that he didn't give it a real chance. It took him two weeks to figure out if he wanted to give it another shot. Two weeks!!! But after one phone call that was it? I can't help thinking that if the phone call had went well and the next one didn't, he would've gave up then too. He didn't even seem to care if the friendship ended either. I mean, go ahead and hate me? What lame sort of cop out is that? Would it really have been so hard to just apologize?

I don't know if I'll regret ending the friendship, but I know it's something I can't honestly offer right now. I can't be a true friend and I don't think sitting around listening to stories of him dating other people would be good for me either. Maybe if he had said let's be friends, months ago when I had asked him about us. Yeah, I could've done that. But after I've gotten my hopes up again? No.

Josephine1012

05-04-2009, 06:54 AM

JohnDoe

05-04-2009, 09:19 AM

curiousjane

05-04-2009, 09:51 AM

So a couple of months ago, I asked my INTJ friend where we stood. Was I friend or was I someone he'd want to pursue more with?
Good for you! This is hard to do.

Well, he said that while he didn't have much hope, he would like to see what could happen. We agreed to meet up in the summer and for the past couple of months, things had been going nicely.
Oh, wow, all shades of deja vu for me, here. I got the same line, the same reaction, the same end result.

But after a rather awkward phone conversation last Sunday, he decided that that we would never work out and we should just remain friends. Today, I asked him why he changed his mind so quickly and why that one thing discredited everything else that was good. He said that he just didn't "feel it".
Ouch.

Three years of friendship, two tries at a relationship, lots of monopolizing your time and giving you mixed signals, and the best he can come up with is "Sorry. I just didn't feel it?"

On the one hand, I have to hand it to him ... he was honest. He didn't sugar coat it.

On the other ... let me go all "He's Just Not That Into You" on you and say, Girl, you deserve someone who will cherish and value you and respect you and want to be around you as much as he can, not someone who has to wonder if he "feel's it" at all. And he was a jerk to let himself take that LOOOOONNNNG to make up his mind. Putting the disclaimer "well, I'm not sure, but maybe" on his actions does not make up for the fact that he pulled you through the emotional wringer willfully, knowing full well that you had hopes for much, much more than he was willing to provide.

The rest of the conversation was pretty cold and heartless. I know stuff like that isn't supposed to be warm and fuzzy, but since I considered him a good friend, I thought he'd at least have enough sympathy to offer me an apology for all the sh!t he had put me through. Instead all I got was, "if you want to hate me, go ahead. I can accept that."
Without hearing the tone (was it sympathetic and apologetic and resigned? Or arrogant, uncaring, and apathetic?), I don't know how to take this. But my gut reaction is ... those are not the words of a friend. I think you're right to cut off all contact.

Bummer, because I didn't want to hate him. If there had been some compassion, a little more caring than, I feel bad that you think I was cruel (no! feel bad because I was hurt!)...I would've tried to make a friendship work. Oh well.
Ahhhh ... so he doesn't feel badly he hurt you. He feels guilty he got caught being a jerk and he feels badly towards you for laying blame he doesn't feel he deserves ...

Step away from the lost dream.

Let yourself heal.

And then open your heart again to someone who is willing to give of himself and his time and his commitments to win your heart and spend true time with you. Just as you are willing to do in return.

So there goes 3 years of friendship down the toilet.
:shout:

----------------
My initial comments a few months ago still hold true. You're not crazy. You're not defficient in any way. You're not asking for too much. A genuine relationship is mutual, loving, attentive, and natural. How two people express their love and attention varies from couple to couple, but the point is not to check off little pre-determined "love boxes" to count values ... does he do x, y, z? Check. Check. Check. Perfect. Then he's in love. The point is: do those two people express their love in ways that make their partner feel safe, happy, and cherished?

My mistake, and it looks like yours possibly, as well, was to know I could pour myself into making a relationship work. Because relationships take work, right?

Yes, they do. But they are not ALL work! And even the work that needs to be done should not be done by one person. It is a joint effort.

ricearoni

05-04-2009, 05:47 PM

roni,

why? Why do you want a relationship with this person. it seem that you never even got close to him, or maybe you did... either way it seems that at this point he is living in your head. you filled the blanks of his personality you're missing with what you want it to be. It's sort of like your attachment is internal to you.

I would let the friendship go, too. It isn't healthy. It soesn't sound like he is acting like a friend either. Each time you talk to him you'll just hope that he will change his mind and it's time for you to take care of yourself and cut your losses.

I feel like I have to defend him somewhat. He wasn’t an ass all the time, I wouldn’t have stuck around as long as I did, if he didn’t have some redeeming qualities. I considered the guy a friend and that’s not a term I throw around lightly. He’s capable of sympathy and actually, he’s been a source of encouragement and laughter during some of the bad moments in my life.

I think that’s why last night was so disappointing. I was really hoping something would come out that reminded me of why I liked him so much, but it never did.

So yeah, I agree that it’s time to let the friendship go.

Oh, wow, all shades of deja vu for me, here. I got the same line, the same reaction, the same end result.

I think there really should be thread called, Warning: if you hear this from an INTJ...
:p

Three years of friendship, two tries at a relationship, lots of monopolizing your time and giving you mixed signals, and the best he can come up with is "Sorry. I just didn't feel it?"

On the one hand, I have to hand it to him ... he was honest. He didn't sugar coat it.

I don't know if I think that was honest. I mean, sudden reactions like that always have some sort of trigger. I think what he was really saying was, I just don't feel like explaining it to you. But then, eh. Who am I to say what he's thinking?

And the go ahead and hate me comment was more like resignation. He was like, if you want to believe that I was being cruel, then I can't change your mind on that. I don't like that you think that I was being that way, but I can accept it.

It was so frustrating. He really didn't seem to think he did anything wrong.

My mistake, and it looks like yours possibly, as well, was to know I could pour myself into making a relationship work. Because relationships take work, right?

Yes, they do. But they are not ALL work! And even the work that needs to be done should not be done by one person. It is a joint effort.

Yeah, I think I got too caught up in trying to make it work. I thought the reason it didn't work out the first time was because I wasn't putting forth the same effort he was, so I guess I was overcompensating. Oh well.

JohnDoe

05-04-2009, 05:49 PM

I feel like I have to defend him somewhat. He wasn’t an ass all the time, I wouldn’t have stuck around as long as I did, if he didn’t have some redeeming qualities. I considered the guy a friend and that’s not a term I throw around lightly. He’s capable of sympathy and actually, he’s been a source of encouragement and laughter during some of the bad moments in my life.

I prefer my friends to have more then "some redeeming qualities." Sure your not just remembering all of the good things and ignoring all of the bad things because you were into him?

Josephine1012

05-04-2009, 05:52 PM

It really sucks that this happened, and I really feel for you. It just seems that somewhere along these lines you lost the connection that made the whole thing worth it... but you were trying to make it work regardless hoping that it would come back :(

This makes me think you've started building him up the way you wanted him to be in your head, which probably made the connection even weaker.

It really blows, but maybe this is just a fresh new beginning for something good.

ricearoni

05-04-2009, 07:24 PM

I prefer my friends to have more then "some redeeming qualities." Sure your not just remembering all of the good things and ignoring all of the bad things because you were into him?

Actually, right now it's kind of hard not to focus on the bad things.
But I still feel uncomfortable with saying that he was always a jerk.

It really sucks that this happened, and I really feel for you. It just seems that somewhere along these lines you lost the connection that made the whole thing worth it... but you were trying to make it work regardless hoping that it would come back :(

This makes me think you've started building him up the way you wanted him to be in your head, which probably made the connection even weaker.

Yeah the connection definitely was weaker and my hopes didn't help any. I also think we never fully recovered from the way things had gone after the last trip. I know my trust was shaken and I wasn't as comfortable saying what I thought.

Hm. The more I think about this, the more of a butthead I think he was.

It really blows, but maybe this is just a fresh new beginning for something good.

That's what I'm hoping. :)