I Feel Really Bad About Dumping People; Can I Truly Be An INTJ?

[Rudy]

I just informed someone that I wasn't interested in seeing them again after a short period of dating and interaction. They hadn't done anything wrong, per se, there were just many reasons (which I need not go into) that I could not become attached to them in any way.

I felt really, really, really bad about it. I always do, even though I try to make it as nice as possible. I despise people who simply fade away instead of telling me directly that they are no longer interested, so I try my best to always tell people from my end (whether to their face, or electronically.) This just makes me feel worse, of course.

Do other INTJs feel the same? From what I know of the type, it doesn't seem that it would be all that common. We're supposed to be masters of breaking off relationships, right? Though, admittedly I have a relatively weakly expressed "T", as compared to my very strong I, N and J.

[Monte314]

Sure. INTJ's aren't sociopaths. We can understand and assess the feelings of others, and empathize with them.

But we don't seek this experience out. We take the unpleasantness as it arises, often unavoidably, and deal with it using what tools we have.

[playthestatic]

Being direct is nothing to feel bad about. INTJs are not heartless creatures who feel nothing after doing something that may or may not have seriously hurt someone else's feelings. An INTJ would tend to see the logic and efficiency in being direct and would be able to put aside unnecessary 'pity' to do what's needed, there's nothing to say they can't feel bad about it. You're a human being with emotions, it's perfectly understandable.

[rara avis]

Sure. INTJ's aren't sociopaths. We can understand and assess the feelings of others, and empathize with them.

But we don't seek this experience out. We take the unpleasantness as it arises, often unavoidably, and deal with using what tools we have.

Agreed. I am pretty ruthless in my decision-making process regarding who I want to spend my time with. But I am loath to hurt anyone unecessarily.

I went out with a guy two more times than I wanted to, recently - after the first few dates, I knew he was a no-go... but I also knew he had no idea that my switch had flipped summarily to NO. So I played out a charade of going out a couple more times and demonstrating our incompatibility and giving him time to sense my reticence. By the end of the second faux-date, he instigated the conversation that allowed me to end things gracefully. :)

I suppose I'm cautious with others' feelings because... being an introvert, I am sensitive to what it takes to extend yourself in some situations. And I'm sometimes just very aware of others' vulnerabilities in relation to myself- I understand that they don't understand what's going on behind my scenes, so I want to help them not hurt themselves.


I just can't stand to watch someone continue to blithely stick their neck out that way, oblivious to incoming potential pain. It's as cringeful to me as chewing tinfoil.

[Rudy]

I just can't stand to watch someone continue to blithely stick their neck out that way, oblivious to incoming potential pain. It's as cringeful to me as chewing tinfoil.

I can definitely relate to that feeling...

Thanks for the input, everyone.

[azelismia]

yup, having feelings does not make you less intj. feeling vs thinking is based on how you make your decisions not if you feel them or not. You ended it now because you knew it wasn't going anywhere, that's thinking. you thought it out and did it anyway regardless of pain to yourself. If you drew it out she'd be hurt worse in the long run as she'd have a lot more time for her feelings to develop.

If you were choosing with your feelings because of how much it hurt -- to hurt this person i.e ending a relationship, you'd probably have kept going out with her until you had no choice but to end it. Maybe you'd start sabotaging it so she'd leave you and you wouldn't have to do something that might hurt (yourself, I think Feeling is much more about yourself, pain avoidance, than preserving pain in others.)

I think making the Thinking choices to be more compassionate than a lot of the F choices which are based more on the here and now.

as far as emotions go, Still waters run deep and all that..

[Rudy]

yup, having feelings does not make you less intj. feeling vs thinking is based on how you make your decisions not if you feel them or not. You ended it now because you knew it wasn't going anywhere, that's thinking. you thought it out and did it anyway regardless of pain to yourself. If you drew it out she'd be hurt worse in the long run as she'd have a lot more time for her feelings to develop. If you were choosing with your feelings because of how much it hurt to hurt this person for no real reason, you'd probably have kept going out with her until you had no choice but to end it. Maybe you'd start sabotaging it so she'd leave you and you wouldn't have to do something that might hurt (yourself, I think Feeling is much more about yourself, pain avoidance, than preserving pain in others.)

I think making the Thinking choices to be more compassionate than a lot of the F choices which are based more on the here and now.

as far as emotions go, Still waters run deep and all that..
Heh, now that really makes me feel better. =D

[curiousjane]

Rudy,

MBTI is simply a method of describing and understanding different kinds of people, the decision making processes they use, and the communication patterns that work best when interacting with them. It is neither an infallible system nor an exact science. You can certainly have INTJ tendencies and yet "have a heart" and squirm at the idea of hurting another human being emotionally or otherwise.

As far as cutting things off is concerned, I'd rather know sooner than later, and I agree that I hate it when people fade out of the picture without explanation. So I see nothing wrong with what you did. Nor do I see anything wrong with your "feeling bad" for doing it.

[SeaCzar]

As far as cutting things off is concerned, I'd rather know sooner than later, and I agree that I hate it when people fade out of the picture without explanation. So I see nothing wrong with what you did. Nor do I see anything wrong with your "feeling bad" for doing it.

Ditto. The guillotine acts much more quickly and with much less pain than the electric chair.

[llBradll]

Things like that may effect us more some times because when we actually let somebody get close to us it's a bigger part of our social group leaving. Having an actual strong emotion seems like it would be more of a contrast to us as well.

[Rudy]

Things like that may effect us more some times because when we actually let somebody get close to us it's a bigger part of our social group leaving. Having an actual strong emotion seems like it would be more of a contrast to us as well.

No, that wasn't it. The girl in question was not close to me; I've only known her for a week, and it takes longer than that for my barriers to really come down. I was friendly and cordial with her, of course, as I wanted to see if there was relationship potential, but we weren't friends. This was just plain old empathy.

[PHS Philip]

Having a strong F doesn't mean you don't have a strong T too.

[llBradll]

No, that wasn't it. The girl in question was not close to me; I've only known her for a week, and it takes longer than that for my barriers to really come down. I was friendly and cordial with her, of course, as I wanted to see if there was relationship potential, but we weren't friends. This was just plain old empathy.
Maybe you're just taking too much responsibility for the situation. You can only put your own needs first just like anybody else.

[Lagawrd]

I am pretty ruthless in my decision-making process regarding who I want to spend my time with. But I am loath to hurt anyone unecessarily.

Good, and that is how it naturally should be.

INTJ is not characterized by having a heart or not, as curiousjane explained. Having a heart, accessing that part of your brain has a benefit. It is being used for a reason.

[LaoTzu]

I have a similar issue with dumping people. Try not to feel bad about it, I think part of it is that you are projecting onto her what your own emotions would be were the roles reversed. (Thats how it works for me)
You were open and upfront about it; and more importantly, you didn't waste any time on something you knew wasn't for you.

I aspire to your greatness :) (seriously.... I'm totally pathetic..!)

[JohnDoe]

You felt really, really, really bad about it after one week? Sure your not borderline INTJ/INFJ? Most people on this board would not feel really, really, really bad after one week. Maybe a month or two, but a week is pretty short.

[Rudy]

You felt really, really, really bad about it after one week? Sure your not borderline INTJ/INFJ? Most people on this board would not feel really, really, really bad after one week. Maybe a month or two, but a week is pretty short.

I've tested as INFJ once before, but every other time has been INTJ (although when numbers are given, the certainty for T is relatively low.) Descriptions of both types seem pretty accurate to me.

The reason that I chose INTJ as being my type, however, is that I take my feelings into account, and then consciously try to remove their direct influence on my decisions.

EDIT: As in for example: "I'm really angry right now, how is that affecting my decision making? How can I correct for that effect?"

If you know of a more reliable way to differentiate between the two types, I'd be glad to hear it.

[JohnDoe]

I've tested as INFJ once before, but every other time has been INTJ (although when numbers are given, the certainty for T is relatively low.) Descriptions of both types seem pretty accurate to me.

The reason that I chose INTJ as being my type, however, is that I take my feelings into account, and then consciously try to remove their direct influence on my decisions.

If you know of a more reliable way to differentiate between the two types, I'd be glad to hear it.

Good hunch :P So, being an INFJ does not mean that we let our feelings do whatever we want. I'm quite capable and usually do try to remove their direct influence on my decisions. On the other hand, the difference (I think, some other people will hopefully back me up on this) is that an INTJ does not take feelings into account and then try to remove their direct influence. An INTJ thinks mostly rationally in the first place, so that its not necessary to remove the influence of feelings. I'm guessing your actually an INFJ. Typing as an INFJ is usually pretty hard, especially on most of the online tests because they tend to be biased to thinking. (I use logic most of the time at work.. if I answered the tests as if I was at work I come out INTJ). At the end of the day if you usually make a decision on "feeling" and then check your decision with logic, your probably an INFJ and not an INTJ. This is the best way I can describe the difference, because its pretty subtle.

Edit:
If you have a really hard decision to make where there are really good rational arguments on both sides, what do you do?

[HeyZeus]

Rudy--the book "Destructive Emotions" by Daniel Goleman talks about the very kind of cognitive training that you mention in your "EDIT" remark. The book is a narrative of a series of meetings between cognitive scientists and Buddhist monks to consider if humans can train their minds to regulate or otherwise counteract destructive emotions.

[Rudy]

If you have a really hard decision to make where there are really good rational arguments on both sides, what do you do?

Well, if the decision has to be made right then, then I would go with "my gut," sure. But that would only happen if I absolutely could not come up with a rational decision in the given time limit.

I'm somewhat skeptical, and not because I'm opposed to being an INFJ, but because there are a few things that do not fit from the descriptions that I have read.

1) I am *horrible* at learning languages. I'm a bright guy, and I absorb technical information, historical details and economic theories like a sponge. But I tried for many years to learn Spanish, for example, and could not get it to stick. It's the only thing I've ever tried and failed to learn.

2) As an aspiring economist, I'm much more concerned with efficiency than with equity. This seems more in line with INTJ patterns of thinking.

3) I am very bad at expressing my feelings. I have little trouble picking up on the feelings of others, but when it comes to expressing, or talking about my own, no way.



Though, on the other side of the ledger, I do have a problem whereby it can become impossible for me to watch the emotionally difficult situations of people on television or in movies, especially humiliation, because I start empathizing with fictional characters to a ridiculous degree...

[JohnDoe]

1) What the hell does learning languages have to do with being an INFJ? I suck at learning languages. Badly. As in the worst in my class bad.
2) I've given thoughts to being a master of the universe type hedge fund manager. :P Being an INFJ does not necessarily meaning being a hippie ;)
3) If you were really good at this you wouldn't be borderline. It takes a bit of practice and its much much easier with the right person to open up to. Note
specifically that most INTJ's have a bunch of trouble picking up others feelings.

Edit: I have the problem with empathizing with fictional characters too. Definitely a textbook INFJ trait.
Edit: I used to be really bad at expressing my feelings before I found the right person to open up to.
Edit: I'm going to take a wild guess and guess that you occasionally feel like crying during really emotionally intense scenes?

[Rudy]

1) What the hell does learning languages have to do with being an INFJ? I suck at learning languages. Badly. As in the worst in my class bad.
2) I've given thoughts to being a master of the universe type hedge fund manager. :P Being an INFJ does not necessarily meaning being a hippie ;)
3) If you were really good at this you wouldn't be borderline. It takes a bit of practice and its much much easier with the right person to open up to. Note
specifically that most INTJ's have a bunch of trouble picking up others feelings.

Edit: I have the problem with empathizing with fictional characters too. Definitely a textbook INFJ trait.

This To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. highly scientific (yeah, right) site told me INFJs were good with languages *shrug*

Alright, you've at least convinced me that it is a very real possibility. I am "x" for now.

[JohnDoe]

Rudy: take a look at To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. The infp stuff doesn't apply but it has a much better description of some infjs.

[azelismia]

This To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. highly scientific (yeah, right) site told me INFJs were good with languages *shrug*

Alright, you've at least convinced me that it is a very real possibility. I am "x" for now.


it's at times like this that you're obligated to start a thread with a poll saying " what type am I"

Personally, I am inclined to think you're an intj. you haven't struck me as a wide eyed idealist in the least.

[JohnDoe]

it's at times like this that you're obligated to start a thread with a poll saying " what type am I"

Personally, I am inclined to think you're an intj. you haven't struck me as a wide eyed idealist in the least.

I don't come across as an idealist unless you know me really well either. This is why typing as INFJ is often process of elimination if your trying to type someone else. You have to know someone really well to peg them as INFJ directly. INFJ's are probably the most complicated type in MBTI, and we have a remarkable ability to hide anything we want about ourselves, even from ourselves.

Edit:
If you read any of my posts about sex on this board, its clear I am an idealist. If you haven't read that, I don't look very much like one.

[Rudy]

I'm somewhat lost. I found this To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. from the website you gave me. I cannot imagine living without any of knowledge, mastery, meaning or significance, so the "temperament" bit doesn't really help me.

There is this:

"INTJs tend to display a scientific bent, while INFJs tend to display a humanistic bent."

Which doesn't help me at all. The reason I chose economics is I saw it as a good balance between scientific/technical and humanistic pursuits, both of which I wanted to have.


There is this:

"An important distinction between INFJs and INTJs is that the "intelligence" or "skill-set" INTJs excel at is Strategic, followed by Diplomatic; while for INFJs the order is reversed: Diplomatic, followed by Strategic. So INTJs typically consider Logic first, people second; while INFJs tend to consider people first, Logic second."

Which points towards me being INTJ, since I definitely consider logic first, people second. If what makes logical sense hurts someones feelings, I'll feel pretty lousy about it, but I will do it nonetheless, without exception.

When they talk about the "divergent auxillary processes," every single thing under INTJ applies to me, whereas only the first half of the INFJ description fits well. The second half, which indicates that INFJs absorb and remember personal details about others easily, is not true.

The tertiary processes both seem to apply to me equally well.

I'm going to watch that hour+ video of them discussing the difference, and see if that is any more helpful.


EDIT: I'm going to start a thread to let people vote on my type. (j/k) But I'll draw up the points for each side, and get whatever input people want to offer.

[JohnDoe]

Yeah, I'm not happy about all of the traditional INFJ stuff either. But there are a bunch of INFJ's on this forums who are heavy science types, so it can definitely happen. I haven't watched the hour video either. And I can't remember personal details well. In general, INFJ's pretty much have way more variance as a type then most of the others. I mean, we are just complicated :P

[daydreamer]

what about intj's that are not incapable of science and math per-se, but lean towards the fine arts, liberal arts, and languages. do you think that indicates possibility of infj or simply the interests of the person?

[JohnDoe]

Professional interests and hobbies alone shouldn't be taken to indicate anything about type, ever in my opinion. Type -> profession and profession -> Type links are pretty unreliable.

[Storm]

Rudy, I've wondered the same thing about myself, that perhaps I'm an INFJ. But then I've met real INFJs, and I don't seem like them in the way I think.
I think the difference, based purely on my experience, is, not in emotional reactions, but the value placed on emotions in reaching decisions.
For instance, when I face emotional situations, I will cry, get a headache, tightened stomach etc.
However, my decision about what to do about the situtation will be based foremost on some objective criteria. An INFJ, however, will be more inclined to look at the situation not from an objective "What will yeild the best results", but from a "What will make everyone happiest" perspective.
This distinction can get confusing when INTJs enter into humanistic areas, such as relationships.
Remember, INTJs 3rd strongest function is Introverted Feeling. I read once that this is most clearly seen in situations where the person is concerned about what is Good and Right.
And of course, just because you prefer Thinking in most situtations doesn't meant you always use it exclusively. In a situation involving feeling you could easily use Extroverted Feeling (shock!), and still be an INTJ.

[JohnDoe]

An INFJ, however, will be more inclined to look at the situation not from an objective "What will yeild the best results", but from a "What will make everyone happiest" perspective.

This is bullshit. I never make decisions that way. I'd wager that your INFJ's are immature and haven't learned its best not to please everyone sometimes.

Edit:
INFJ's can be just as tough as INTJ's when the situation calls for it. The difference is we fully recognize that often the situation does not call for full tactical retaliation with nukes.

[Storm]

Sorry John. I wasn't using "Happy" to mean "please everyone and give them what they think they want," I meant "leave everyone emotionally better off in the long run." That can sometimes mean using tough love. Perhaps emotion is the wrong word to use here. Oh English language, why do you fail me?

I was trying to harp on the idealism seen in INFJs, not imply in anyway that INFJs are weaklings.
INTJs, on the otherhand, are not quite as idealist (although it is present to a certain extent since INTJs are striving to create the best "system" possible).

EDIT: The INFJs I know are very tough and never back down on their values.

[JohnDoe]

Our ideals can conflict with other peoples long term emotions, and our ideals are going to come out above others long term emotions every single time. I have no hesitation in destroying someone emotionally if its for the right ideals (and they are ideals that justify doing so). (We are idealists...) I will feel bad about it, but it must be done. (Stereotypical INFJ: Ender in Ender's Game)

Edit:
Ender had a habit of doing really aggressive action to defend the colony in speaker for the dead. This is a really good example of idealism here.

[Mina]

What makes you feel worse, the fact that you're hurting someone, or that you're burning bridges?

I usually feel bad *before* I dump someone, but a few days afterwards I've moved on.

[Deadgod]

I just informed someone that I wasn't interested in seeing them again after a short period of dating and interaction. They hadn't done anything wrong, per se, there were just many reasons (which I need not go into) that I could not become attached to them in any way.

I felt really, really, really bad about it. I always do, even though I try to make it as nice as possible. I despise people who simply fade away instead of telling me directly that they are no longer interested, so I try my best to always tell people from my end (whether to their face, or electronically.) This just makes me feel worse, of course.

Do other INTJs feel the same? From what I know of the type, it doesn't seem that it would be all that common. We're supposed to be masters of breaking off relationships, right? Though, admittedly I have a relatively weakly expressed "T", as compared to my very strong I, N and J.

It's funny that your post reflects something that is occurring in my waking personal life, as if by synchronicity. Recently, I thought I loved someone but it turns out that I don't and that I love someone else. It's scary because time is what takes it away. And our perception of time does not make it any better. This NiTe combination sees the future possibilities and makes tough-minded decisions on future possibilities instead of embracing the moments that make up that future.

I speak for mainly myself and for you, if you can open up and accept what I have to say. Focus on yourself and what you do. It's the only way to get messages across and not sabotage yourself and others. Recognize that emotions are real and that they cannot be neglected. When you can do that, then make the tough minded decisions to tell people what you feel about them. The point is to keep it rational without being cold.

[Shinqui]

I've had a hard time telling people that I just met that there wasn't going to be a second date, so yes, I can empathize with where you're coming from.

Also, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that INTJ's will work longer and harder on relationships than many types, perhaps this is an extension of the desire not to hurt people romanticaly?

[brainysmurf]

It is not unusual - also for an INTJ - to feel uncomfortable in such a situation. We are humans!

It sounds like you analyzed the reasons for breaking up. This analytical approach is a typical INTJ approach to decision making by the way ("T").

I guess you don't feel bad about your decision, but are uncomfortable because of the other person's emotional reaction (disapointment, sadness, anger...) to your decision.